[metroXpress]

Possible 2022 Winter Bid From Canada
GB Staff

Chris Rudge, chief executive officer of the Canadian Olympic Committee (COC), said Canada is considering a bid for the 2022 Winter Olympic Games.

The 2018 Games might be too soon after the Vancouver 2010 Games, but Rudge said Tuesday, "I'm not sure there's any precedent for a Games being that close in a country, certainly a Winter Games, but there's no question that we are looking at when the next time to bid might be. I think that our general belief is that '22 is not unreasonable", he said.

CTV reports Rudge said interest remains in having Quebec City represent Canada in a 2022 bid. "Quite frankly, knowing the charm of Quebec City, it would certainly be a tremendous environment in which to host a Winter Games".

Quebec City was Canada's official candidate for the 2002 Games won by Salt Lake City. The city tried to represent Canada for the 2010 Games but Vancouver's bid won out, reports CTV.

But Rudge added if the decision is made to bid for 2022, any Canadian city will be eligible to submit a bid to the COC for consideration, which is a normal process. "The winner of that round then goes ahead with a bid to the IOC", he said.

Rudge called it a strategic decision that Toronto is bidding for the 2015 Pan Am Games. He said the decision was made on the basis that a bid from the area would help develop badly needed resources for summer sports. The Pan Am bid is reportedly also seen as a way to prepare Toronto to host a Summer Games.

But Rudge said the decision around whether the next Games bid from Canada should be for summer or winter would depend on whether the bid was winnable. "We've gone twice in Toronto and lost, we've had more success attracting Winter Games and perhaps one of the reasons is we have such a good track record of hosting Games. There may be a preference to give us the winter over summer, I don't know. We haven't put ourselves in a position yet of choosing one or the other", he said.

http://www.gamesbids.com/eng/winter_olympic_bids/1216134560.html

[raggedy13]

I'd love to see Quebec City host a winter Olympics. It would be a perfectly picturesque city for it. However, I think 2022 is probably still too soon after 2010. Maybe 2026. But with that said, I think I'd prefer to see Toronto get the summer games first.

[You Need A Thneed]

I think 2022 is too close to 2010, and the Olympic selection commitee is going to take that into consideration. It's probobly best to wait until 2026 or 2030.

1988 to 2010 is 22 years.

That being said, the US hosted the Olympic games (winter or summer) in 1980, 1984, 1996, and 2002.

[Nicko999]

Why do they still prefer Winter over Summer?:shrug:

It's a great news, but they should try and bid for the Summer Olympics!!!

[MistyMountainHop]

Why do they still prefer Winter over Summer?:shrug:

It's a great news, but they should try and bid for the Summer Olympics!!!

Because Canada can actually compete at the winter games! :)

[Coldrsx]

Because Canada can actually compete at the winter games! :)

not to mention that other than MAYBE...MAYBE Toronto, the summer olympics has become a production too large for Canadian cities IMO.

[someone123]

Maybe it could be another joint Quebec City-Halifax event. ;)

It does seem very soon after Vancouver, but Quebec City would be a great place to host them.

[Calgarian]

Quebec would be a great host to the Olympics. Would be a perfect showcase for the city.

12 years is pretty close however.

[frinkprof]

Agreed that it may be too soon after 2010, and also too soon for another North American Olympic host if Chicago wins 2016. I think Quebec City is the next natural Canadian candidate though, seeing as how Calgary and Vancouver will have hosted, and probably the next natural North American choice after Denver (who won the right to host the 1976 games but pulled out on account of a ballot measure).

Maybe by 2030, depending on the direction the Winter Games are heading in (Vancouver is the largest city to host the games to date) and where in the hosting "cycle" of NA-Europe-Rest of the World things are at.

[shreddog]

Hmmm ... while Qc would be a natural choice, I think Toronto is still smarting after being cut out due to a Vancouver win. As such, the best compromise for Toronto to not feel left out would be to let them bid for the Winter games (seeing as those are the ones we have a better chance of winning).

Just imagine the Mens DH at Blue Mtn!! New records for sure!! Bobsleigh/Luge/Skelton could all be held on the slopes of the Don Valley. And the biathalon could be held in Malvern! ;)

And in Classic Toronto fashion, they could build the athlete's village in Hamilton, ala Stinson of course!!

[kitchener-lrt]

Why do they still prefer Winter over Summer?:shrug:


It's more interesting to watch (IMO).

[Nicko999]

not to mention that other than MAYBE...MAYBE Toronto, the summer olympics has become a production too large for Canadian cities IMO.

Well...we already have everything from the 76' games.:D . It would be easier and profitable this time.:yes:

If Montreal did it in 1976(Never mind the problems, they still did it) why wouldn't Toronto do it in 2024?

[craneSpotter]

I would love to see Quebec City get the winter games in 2022 or 2026!!!

I love that QC is a city that already embraces and celebrates its winter too!

[eternallyme]

I'd love to see Quebec City host a winter Olympics. It would be a perfectly picturesque city for it. However, I think 2022 is probably still too soon after 2010. Maybe 2026. But with that said, I think I'd prefer to see Toronto get the summer games first.

Could another Canadian city try to steal an Olympic bid from Toronto?

[Calgarian]

If Toronto hosted the games where would they hold the ski events? Host Cities should be close to or in the mountains.

[frinkprof]

Well...we already have everything from the 76' games.:D . It would be easier and profitable this time.:yes:

If Montreal did it in 1976(Never mind the problems, they still did it) why wouldn't Toronto do it in 2024?What Coldrsx is referring to is the trend toward gigantism for the Summer Games since about 1984 (huge profit, huge expenditure, huge spectacle, huge stadia, highly competitive bidding campaign, etc.). The climate that Toronto would be bidding in is a lot different than the climate that Montreal hosted in.

I'd personally like to see Toronto host a Summer Games as well, and 2024 or 2028 may be the time. The Winter Games is impractical in Toronto. If Toronto wants a much better chance of hosting an event like this though, they should go after the Commonwealth or Pan-Am Games. I seem to recall the possibility of a "Golden Horseshoe" bid for the Pan-Am Games.

[shreddog]

If Toronto hosted the games where would they hold the ski events? Host Cities should be close to or in the mountains.
Ah, no where. My post was purely facetous!

Though in 1995 Bob Rae did say he felt Thunder Bay could host a Winter Olympics after successfully hosting the World Nordic Games. Then again, that comment by him is one of the reasons I think he is insane!

[jmt18325]

Winnipeg could do it. We could host the ski events on the mountain that is the Brady landfill :P.

[ue]

Sounds like a good candidate. Quebec City seems like a nice winter city--would be a perfect fit.

[mr.x]

Way, way too soon after Vancouver. A realistic winning bid for both Summer or Winter won't likely come until the decade starting in 2030.

But why another Winter Olympics? We should be aiming for the Summer Olympics. And it's not as if our summer athletes can't excel, as some have suggested here. Over the last 4 years we've begun to focus on creating excelling summer athletes, and we saw the results with our Beijing 2008 medal count. Our performance in the Summer Games will only improve even more come London 2012, 2016, and future Summer Games.

Speaking of 2016, the favourite candidate is Chicago. We'll know who the IOC will award those Games to in a few weeks. But if Chicago wins 206, you can say goodbye to a Toronto Olympics and a Quebec City Winter Olympics for the next 20-30 years. It's simply way too close.

Vancouver 2010 will be Canada's last Olympics for the next 2 or 3 decades. And even then, we should be bidding for the Summer Games instead to develop infrastructure for summer sports.

Personally, I would have much rather have Vancouver host the Summer Games instead of the Winter Games. I love the grandure of the Summer Games, and the sports much more than the Winter Games....and Vancouver's summers have amazing weather for the Summer Games - weather that is perfect for athletic competition, being not too hot. However, we don't have the populace yet to support the scale and the amount of money required to host the Summer Games. We also don't have the transportation infrastructure that's needed nor the hotel rooms.

To be exact, the IOC requires the host city (cities/region) to have 45,000 hotel rooms. Vancouver and Whistler combined will have about 28,000 hotel rooms by 2010, and they are all already booked by the media, VIP's, sponsors, and Olympic Family. Very little quota is left for spectators.

In terms of capability, the following cities are capable of hosting the Summer Games in Canada:
- Toronto
- Montreal
- Vancouver (in 2030....we need more hotel rooms, and we need to get more SkyTrain lines built and more buses on the roads)


As for the 2010 Games themselves, there's a fear they may be rained out....certainly not the best backdrop for the world to see and enjoy. After 3 years of perfect winter weather, the Pacific is warming up: El Nino will be here for the 2009/2010 winter season. In Vancouver, that means a lot more rainfall and higher freezing temperatures (possible poor snow quality and quantity in the mountains). Hopefully, the forecasters are wrong.

[ue]

Way, way too soon after Vancouver. A realistic winning bid for both Summer or Winter won't likely come until the decade starting in 2030.

But why another Winter Olympics? We should be aiming for the Summer Olympics. And it's not as if our summer athletes can't excel, as some have suggested here. Over the last 4 years we've begun to focus on creating excelling summer athletes, and we saw the results with our Beijing 2008 medal count. Our performance in the Summer Games will only improve even more come London 2012, 2016, and future Summer Games.

Speaking of 2016, the favourite candidate is Chicago. We'll know who the IOC will award those Games to in a few weeks. But if Chicago wins 206, you can say goodbye to a Toronto Olympics and a Quebec City Winter Olympics for the next 20-30 years. It's simply way too close.

Vancouver 2010 will be Canada's last Olympics for the next 2 or 3 decades. And even then, we should be bidding for the Summer Games instead to develop infrastructure for summer sports.

Personally, I would have much rather have Vancouver host the Summer Games instead of the Winter Games. I love the grandure of the Summer Games, and the sports much more than the Winter Games....and Vancouver's summers have amazing weather for the Summer Games - weather that is perfect for athletic competition, being not too hot. However, we don't have the populace yet to support the scale and the amount of money required to host the Summer Games. We also don't have the transportation infrastructure that's needed nor the hotel rooms.

To be exact, the IOC requires the host city (cities/region) to have 45,000 hotel rooms. Vancouver and Whistler combined will have about 28,000 hotel rooms by 2010, and they are all already booked by the media, VIP's, sponsors, and Olympic Family. Very little quota is left for spectators.

In terms of capability, the following cities are capable of hosting the Summer Games in Canada:
- Toronto
- Montreal
- Vancouver (in 2030....we need more hotel rooms, and we need to get more SkyTrain lines built and more buses on the roads)


As for the 2010 Games themselves, there's a fear they may be rained out....certainly not the best backdrop for the world to see and enjoy. After 3 years of perfect winter weather, the Pacific is warming up: El Nino will be here for the 2009/2010 winter season. In Vancouver, that means a lot more rainfall and higher freezing temperatures (possible poor snow quality and quantity in the mountains). Hopefully, the forecasters are wrong.

Why 20-30 years? Looking at the distances between the Canadian host cities, 2022 isn't that far fetched. Montreal (summer) and Calgary (winter) were less around a decade apart. We could easily host one every 15ish years.

[mr.x]

^ there are a lot more cities in the bidding than the days of when Montreal and Calgary hosted.

Note that Montreal HOSTED in 1976, but WON the games in 1979....meaning actual plans to bid probably started in ~1966. Calgary HOSTED the 1988 Winter Games, but WON the games in 1981. Thoughts to bring the Games to Calgary didn't happen until the mid to late-70's.

20-30 years also has to do with geopolitics. If Chicago wins 2016, and they are the favourite city to win, it'll set back ANY Canadian Olympic bid for at least 20 years - especially a bid from Eastern Canada.

Your suggestion of a 2022 Winter Olympics would mean Quebec City would have to start bid plans today. The IOC selects the 2022 host city in July 2015; the Vancouver Games will still be fresh in their minds.

Vancouver first thought of bidding for the 2010 Games in 1996.

[Mille Sabords]

:previous: Québec first bid for the Winter Olympics in the early 1990s for 2002, which went to Scandal Lake City. I see it as a rite of passage in modern Olympic bidding that cities have to lose at least two bids, and keep going for it, before they finally get the games. :D So Québec can try again for 2022 and come second, then they'll win the 2026 games.

[Wooster]

I would love to see Quebec get the Winter games.

I'm quite sure that Calgary will eventually go for the games again. Maybe in the 2030s or something depending if any other Canadian cities have hosted recently before then.

[habfanman]

^ there are a lot more cities in the bidding than the days of when Montreal and Calgary hosted.

Note that Montreal HOSTED in 1976, but WON the games in 1979....meaning actual plans to bid probably started in ~1966. Calgary HOSTED the 1988 Winter Games, but WON the games in 1981. Thoughts to bring the Games to Calgary didn't happen until the mid to late-70's.

20-30 years also has to do with geopolitics. If Chicago wins 2016, and they are the favourite city to win, it'll set back ANY Canadian Olympic bid for at least 20 years - especially a bid from Eastern Canada.

Your suggestion of a 2022 Winter Olympics would mean Quebec City would have to start bid plans today. The IOC selects the 2022 host city in July 2015; the Vancouver Games will still be fresh in their minds.

Vancouver first thought of bidding for the 2010 Games in 1996.

Why would a 2016 Chicago summer games result in a 20-30 year setback for a Canadian bid, especially a winter bid? Recent history would indicate otherwise:

1976-Montréal (s)
1980-Lake Placid (w)
1984-Los Angeles (s)
1988-Calgary (w)
1996-Atlanta (s)
2002-Salt Lake City (w)
2010-Vancouver (w)

Québec would occur 12 years after Vancouver and 6 years after Chicago. Europe is hosting both the next summer (London 2012) and winter (Sochi 2014) games, so they are less likey to be considered. Asia could be a likely winner in 2018 (Pyeongchang's 3rd bid) leaving Québec looking good for 2022.

They've already bid once, have heaps of experience hosting huge events and large numbers of tourists and are planning on building a new, state of the art arena. They'd put on a great Olympics!

[mr.x]

:previous: Québec first bid for the Winter Olympics in the early 1990s for 2002, which went to Scandal Lake City. I see it as a rite of passage in modern Olympic bidding that cities have to lose at least two bids, and keep going for it, before they finally get the games. :D So Québec can try again for 2022 and come second, then they'll win the 2026 games.

Quebec City's bid for the 2002 Games started in around 1991, just 3 years after Salt Lake. The IOC made their 2002 host city decision in 1995....Quebec City came dead last.:P

Of course, there was also the massive bribing scandal which we found out about in 1999 I believe when it was unveiled that Salt Lake bid officials visited IOC delegates around the world and bribed them for their votes. Some of the bribes included paying for prostitutes. Years after the scandal, it turned out that Salt Lake organizers didn't even need to bribe their way to winning the Games - they would have won regardless, there were enough votes.

LOL, iunno about bidding for the Games over and over again. I believe Istanbul tried to bid for the Summer Games FIVE TIMES over the last 20 years....it lost on all tries. Pyeongchang, South Korea lost to Vancouver for its first Olympic bid, and then it lost to Sochi, Russia (a Olympic bidding newcomer) for the 2014 Games. It takes at least $30-million these days to run a Winter Olympic bid from start to finish....most cities are burnt out after just one failed try.

[mr.x]

Why would a 2016 Chicago summer games result in a 20-30 year setback for a Canadian bid, especially a winter bid? Recent history would indicate otherwise:

1976-Montréal (s)
1980-Lake Placid (w)
1984-Los Angeles (s)
1988-Calgary (w)
1996-Atlanta (s)
2002-Salt Lake City (w)
2010-Vancouver (w)

Québec would occur 12 years after Vancouver and 6 years after Chicago. Europe is hosting both the next summer (London 2012) and winter (Sochi 2014) games, so they are less likey to be considered. Asia could be a likely winner in 2018 (Pyeongchang's 3rd bid) leaving Québec looking good for 2022.

They've already bid once, have heaps of experience hosting huge events and large numbers of tourists and are planning on building a new, state of the art arena. They'd put on a great Olympics!

The Olympics today are a very different event than what they were in the 70's, 80's, or even the early 90's. There are 4x as many bid cities for each Olympic year compared to the 1980's as they were a huge money loser. In fact, for the 1984 Summer Games there was ONLY ONE BID CITY: Los Angeles. The IOC didn't even have to organize a vote, they just gave the Games to Los Angeles. The same goes for the 1980 Winter Games, the IOC simply gave it to Lake Placid as they were the only bid city.

It wasn't until after 1984 that the IOC began to develop its "The Olympic Partner" (TOP) sponsorship program and tv rights program to reduce costs significantly for the host city. And with all these sponsors and tv rights holders giving the host city and nation glamarous attention, the Olympics became an attractive event for cities to host. You can credit Canada's own Dick Pound for saving the Olympics as he's responsible for TOP and the immensely successful tv rights program. The IOC's TOP program is for worldwide sponsorship only; the Olympic organizing committees started using TOP as an example to follow for gaining DOMESTIC sponsorships, cutting back costs even more for the host city.

Thanks to TOP, worldwide sponsors for the 2010 Games:
- Coca Cola
- Atins Origin
- General Electric
- McDonalds :tup:
- Omega
- Panasonic
- Samsung
- Visa

2010 tv rights claims by the IOC is at around US$1.5-billion
- US$800-million from America's NBC alone just for 2010 (and $1.2-billion for London 2012)
- CAD$80-million from CTV ($50-million for London 2012)
- and hundreds of millions more from Europe and Asia

VANOC's own domestic sponsorship program has totaled $800-million (a Winter Olympic record, doubling Salt Lake and Torino's totals....VANOC's original aim was just $450-million). Major sponsors include:
- Bell ($200-million)
- HBC ($100-million)
- RBC ($100-million)
- General Motors Canada ($70-million)
- Petro Canada ($50-million)
- Rona ($40-million)
- and about a dozen more sponsors


My original point, before this history lesson, was that there's a lot more bidding cities today than there were 20 years ago. Oh yes, and your comparisions are flawed. Cities today see the Olympics as a prestigious and honourable event to host. Winning the Games was a lot easier 20 years ago...Calgary and Montreal had it good, Los Angeles and Lake Placid had it ridiculously good.

A REAL chance for a Quebec City Winter Games won't come until 2026....I used to follow Olympic bids quite closely, 2022 is too close - the odds are low.

Vancouver's record domestic Olympic sponsorships totals comes from the fact that Canadians generally love the Winter Games, the sponsorship contracts were done during good economic times, AND sponsors knew that it would have been 22-years since Canada's last Olympics when Vancouver lights its flame and there will be this new "feel-good" feeling that comes out after having been deprived for 22-years.

Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see Quebec City hosting....BUT I'd much rather prefer we hold back those plans and host a Summer Games instead...someday. The more Winters we host, the less the likelihood we'll ever host the Summer edition in the next few decades. We need the Summer Games more than the Winter Games at this point.

And if Vancouver does a good job with 2010, and financially it has done a great job (compared to the relative disasters that were Beijing, Torino, Athens, and Salt Lake) even during a recession, it'll only help future Canadian bids. There's strong national interest for the Games already, and we finished all our venues years before the Games (unlike previous host cities) making it a record Olympic venue completion.

[habfanman]

The Olympics today are a very different event than what they were in the 70's, 80's, or even the early 90's. There are 4x as many bid cities for each Olympic year compared to the 1980's as they were a huge money loser. In fact, for the 1984 Summer Games there was ONLY ONE BID CITY: Los Angeles. The IOC didn't even have to organize a vote, they just gave the Games to Los Angeles. The same goes for the 1980 Winter Games, the IOC simply gave it to Lake Placid as they were the only bid city.

It wasn't until after 1984 that the IOC began to develop its "The Olympic Partner" (TOP) sponsorship program and tv rights program to reduce costs significantly for the host city. And with all these sponsors and tv rights holders giving the host city and nation glamarous attention, the Olympics became an attractive event for cities to host. You can credit Canada's own Dick Pound for saving the Olympics as he's responsible for TOP and the immensely successful tv rights program. The IOC's TOP program is for worldwide sponsorship only; the Olympic organizing committees started using TOP as an example to follow for gaining DOMESTIC sponsorships, cutting back costs even more for the host city.

Thanks to TOP, worldwide sponsors for the 2010 Games:
- Coca Cola
- Atins Origin
- General Electric
- McDonalds :tup:
- Omega
- Panasonic
- Samsung
- Visa

2010 tv rights claims by the IOC is at around US$1.5-billion
- US$800-million from America's NBC alone just for 2010 (and $1.2-billion for London 2012)
- CAD$80-million from CTV ($50-million for London 2012)
- and hundreds of millions more from Europe and Asia

VANOC's own domestic sponsorship program has totaled $800-million (a Winter Olympic record, doubling Salt Lake and Torino's totals....VANOC's original aim was just $450-million). Major sponsors include:
- Bell ($200-million)
- HBC ($100-million)
- RBC ($100-million)
- General Motors Canada ($70-million)
- Petro Canada ($50-million)
- Rona ($40-million)
- and about a dozen more sponsors


My original point, before this history lesson, was that there's a lot more bidding cities today than there were 20 years ago. Oh yes, and your comparisions are flawed. Cities today see the Olympics as a prestigious and honourable event to host. Winning the Games was a lot easier 20 years ago...Calgary and Montreal had it good, Los Angeles and Lake Placid had it ridiculously good.

A REAL chance for a Quebec City Winter Games won't come until 2026....I used to follow Olympic bids quite closely, 2022 is too close - the odds are low.

Vancouver's record domestic Olympic sponsorships totals comes from the fact that Canadians generally love the Winter Games, the sponsorship contracts were done during good economic times, AND sponsors knew that it would have been 22-years since Canada's last Olympics when Vancouver lights its flame and there will be this new "feel-good" feeling that comes out after having been deprived for 22-years.

Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see Quebec City hosting....BUT I'd much rather prefer we hold back those plans and host a Summer Games instead...someday. The more Winters we host, the less the likelihood we'll ever host the Summer edition in the next few decades. We need the Summer Games more than the Winter Games at this point.

And if Vancouver does a good job with 2010, and financially it has done a great job (compared to the relative disasters that were Beijing, Torino, Athens, and Salt Lake) even during a recession, it'll only help future Canadian bids. There's strong national interest for the Games already, and we finished all our venues years before the Games (unlike previous host cities) making it a record Olympic venue completion.

So in other words, Chicago 2016 need not result in a 30 year wait for another Canadian bid.

Yes, the Olympics have become a nightmare of corporate branding. I'm certain that for every 30 minutes of logo-festooned event broadcasting there will be 30 minutes of ads that we'll be subjected to. One would assume that Québec or any other winning city would use the same TOP program.

I wouldn't be too cocky about the financial success of the games until after they're over. The Olympic Village fiasco is an indication of the type of problem that can arise.

The number of bidding cities are always shortlisted to 3 or 4 finalists. Not every city thinking of bidding actually bids.

Cities have always seen the Olympics as a prestigious and honourable event, I have no idea what you're talking about in that respect.

And I really don't think that Québec will hold off on a winter bid because some other city might bid on the summer games.. maybe.. possibly.. sometime.. That would just be stupid don't you think?

Oh yes, and my comparisons aren't flawed if you look at 1996 Atlanta, 2002 Salt Lake City and 2010 Vancouver. I think that those dates are quite beyond the 70's and 80's and are about as current as you could ask for, particularly when you consider that one is in the future!

[mr.x]

^ the 30-year wait was more for a Toronto Summer Games.

But the corporate branding is what keeps the Games costs lower: ~$1.2-billion lower for Vancouver and $1.6-billion lower for the Summer Games on average. TOP is the worldwide sponsorship program managed by the IOC, not the organizing committee. Quebec City would run its own DOMESTIC sponsorship program, like what VANOC has done, and on top of that it would also receive TOP sponsorship revenues from the IOC.

The Vancouver Olympic Village issue was completely overblown first by the city's opposition party to win the election, and then it was overblown again by the new mayor as a political point towards the previous governing party of the city. To think that the City of Vancouver would be responsible for the entire $800-million cost of the Olympic Village would mean not a single condo unit and retail space would be sold. These condos will sell; this is on prime waterfront property and a world-class neighbourhood. What matters is the real estate market over the next 2-3 years, now today - even though July 2009 saw a history record for the number of residential sales in the Vancouver region (more than 4,000 homes...double July 2008). The economy is slowly rebounding, and so is the real estate market.

Worries about high interest for the money borrowed to build the Olympic Village is unfounded as well with the City able to negotiate a much fairer and lower interest rate with Canadian banks.

The absolute worst case scenario, the city is on the hook for $100-200 million with lower condo sales. And even that money wouldn't come from taxpayers, rather the City of Vancouver's land dealing profits and businesses: the $1.4-billion property endowement fund the city has attained.

The bidding procedure was revised after the Salt Lake bid scandal revelations; shortlists, based on the technical merit of the city, didn't come about until 1999 for the 2006 host city election. There are virtually 4x as many bid cities today who submit actual applications to the IOC to bid, and yes they are shortlisted to 2-5 cities (5 in the case for the 2012 competition; 2 in the case for the 2006 competition).

Cities have always seen the Olympics as prestigious, but the cost to host them was far too much especially during the days without large sponsorship and tv rights revenues Today, the world is becoming more developed (more cities are able to host these Games, both financially and with the needed infrastructure) and the global attention from sponsorships/tv rights AND the revenues from both of these make it all the more attractive to host the Games.

I never said Quebec should hold off a Winter bid. It'll definitely be a positive thing for Quebecers, assuming they win and the Games are well-run and organized. But on a national view, we need the Summer Games a lot more than another Winter Games so soon. As well, all I did was question whether 2022 would be a good year to bid - whether it's too soon, and it really is too soon. Wait for a year where you have a absolutely good chance to land the Games home, don't waste time, money, and the spirit of the city on a year where the odds may not be as bright. Of course, they can bid if they want: it's their own loss...or their own win.

The IOC awarding 1996 and 2002 to the United States had much to do with all the money they'd be able to get from American tv rights holders and sponsors. They began to really see the success of TOP and tv rights during the 1990's. The IOC has always kept note of the American money flow from hosting the Games in the states. And of course, there was the bid scandal for Salt Lake.

Vancouver's victory for 2010 partially had to do with that it put on a really impressive technical bid to the IOC and because of European IOC delegates wanting the 2012 and 2016 Games in their own country....or in the country next door for that matter. Among Olympic bid discussion circles, it has been concluded that geopolitics was a lot more important than usual for the 2012 host city election. The bid cities were London, Moscow, Madrid, Paris, and New York. They wanted Toronto out of the Summer Games bid process for good, as they really did put on one of the best Summer Olympic bids in history for the 2008 Games, and they also wanted to eliminate any American bid for 2012 out of the picture. So, they killed two birds (a Toronto 2012 bid and a American 2012 bid victory) with one stone by voting for Vancouver 2010 for the Winter Games.....even though the New York 2012 bid did shoot itself in the foot by not having a finalized venue plan even 3-weeks before the July 5, 2005 host city election for 2012.

Tokyo is the second favourite for the 2016 race. They could pull an upset just like what London did for 2012, as Paris had been the frontrunner. If another city other than Chicago wins, a successful Canadian Olympic bid is more likely in the short-term.

[ue]

I would love to see Quebec get the Winter games.

I'm quite sure that Calgary will eventually go for the games again. Maybe in the 2030s or something depending if any other Canadian cities have hosted recently before then.

Why Calgary again? Why not give Edmonton a chance :).

[mr.x]

Why Calgary again? Why not give Edmonton a chance :).

Two sets of Winter Games venues in one province (and within very close proximity) isn't the brightest idea....not to mention it would make three sets of Winter Games venues in Western Canada. Would we really need three ski jumps and three luge tracks in Western Canada?:haha:

And are there any ski resorts near Edmonton that are large enough to host the snow events? Are these hills capable of hosting downhill events (there are many requirements for Olympic downhill venues)?

Of course, both Calgary and Edmonton are far too small to host the Summer Games anytime soon.....might be a good idea to go for a World's Fair though. I've always loved the idea of building a high speed rail line between Calgary and Edmonton, and having World's Fair sites at both ends of the line.

[ue]

^Both cities for worlds fair? Meh. I'd rather not. But really certain cities have hosted Olympics more than once. And if Calgary is gonna host the winter again...hypothetically...why wouldn't edmonton before?

[mr.x]

^ "why wouldn't edmonton before?"

[Me&You]

^ "why wouldn't edmonton before?"

I think he meant - "Before Calgary hosts again, why wouldn't Edmonton host?"

Though you already covered many points of why an Edmonton winter games bid wouldn't make any sense.

[Delirium]

i'd rather see the olympics go to a province that has yet to host them. that would seem fair to begin with.

secondly, QC has really brutal winters. i've spent many there. i've also skied Mont saint-anne before and wow can it get bone chilling cold especially with those windchills. looking at the weather charts, the average low for February (when the games are always held) is -16c. QC also gets a crapload of snow. I could really see this posing logistical problems with not only getting around but all the equipment. QC would be one of if not the coldest cities ever to host a winter olympics.

and while the city itself is beautiful, the surrounding mountains are small by international standards and really nothing special or inspiring. i just don't think quebec cuts it. at least not in the dead of february.

i would rather canada hold off and let Toronto bid again for the summer games. it's their time.

edit; for comparison sake, here are the average February lows for past/current winter olympic cities

Nagano = -4c
Salt Lake = -3c
Turin - 0.0c
Vancouver = +2c
Sochi = +4c

I see a trend here... Soon we'll have the winter olympics in the bahamas!

[eternallyme]

To be exact, the IOC requires the host city (cities/region) to have 45,000 hotel rooms. Vancouver and Whistler combined will have about 28,000 hotel rooms by 2010, and they are all already booked by the media, VIP's, sponsors, and Olympic Family. Very little quota is left for spectators.

In terms of capability, the following cities are capable of hosting the Summer Games in Canada:
- Toronto
- Montreal
- Vancouver (in 2030....we need more hotel rooms, and we need to get more SkyTrain lines built and more buses on the roads)

The 45,000 quota can be made up easily be adding a media village (and selling it as real estate after the Games), renting cruise ships, etc.

[Mister F]

Vancouver will never host a summer Olympics. It's too small. Look at the recent bid and host cities: London, Beijing, Rio, Chicago, Madrid, Tokyo. Even Toronto is on the smaller end of that list, let alone Vancouver.

I wonder if Ottawa has ever considered the winter Olympics. It's the right size, close to Mont-Tremblant, it would be great publicity for a bilingual capital, and it's slightly warmer than Quebec City.

[le calmar]

and while the city itself is beautiful, the surrounding mountains are small by international standards and really nothing special or inspiring.


I heard that the only mountain with a ski resort tall enough to host a Super G competition in Quebec was Le Massif in Charlevoix. It's a 45 minutes drive from QC. Very scenic mountain, but cold as hell in the winter.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3170/2938783150_d64b0cec0b.jpg
neigeski.com

[Acajack]

i'd rather see the olympics go to a province that has yet to host them. that would seem fair to begin with.

secondly, QC has really brutal winters. i've spent many there. i've also skied Mont saint-anne before and wow can it get bone chilling cold especially with those windchills. looking at the weather charts, the average low for February (when the games are always held) is -16c. QC also gets a crapload of snow. I could really see this posing logistical problems with not only getting around but all the equipment. QC would be one of if not the coldest cities ever to host a winter olympics.

and while the city itself is beautiful, the surrounding mountains are small by international standards and really nothing special or inspiring. i just don't think quebec cuts it. at least not in the dead of february.

i would rather canada hold off and let Toronto bid again for the summer games. it's their time.

edit; for comparison sake, here are the average February lows for past/current winter olympic cities

Nagano = -4c
Salt Lake = -3c
Turin - 0.0c
Vancouver = +2c
Sochi = +4c

I see a trend here... Soon we'll have the winter olympics in the bahamas!

It is true that Quebec City would be one of the coldest Olympic sites ever.

But you forgot to mention Lillehammer, where average January lows are comparable to those in Quebec City. And in any event, all of the "host" cities you mentioned have significant disparities between temperatures in the urban area and temperatures at the sites which are at much higher elevations and some distance from the city, and would be reasonably comparable to Quebec City's. The main difference between Quebec City and the other host cities is that the temperature in the city in Quebec City is much closer to what it is in the mountains than it is in Vancouver, Turin, etc.

It's gotta be cold if you wanna have snow and ice.

[Acajack]

I wonder if Ottawa has ever considered the winter Olympics. It's the right size, close to Mont-Tremblant, it would be great publicity for a bilingual capital, and it's slightly warmer than Quebec City.

Great idea. Gatineau Park for cross-country skiing and biathlon, ScotiaBank Place, the Civic Centre and a new arena for Olympiques in Gatineau for ice events.

But Ottawa thinks too small unfortunately. It has trouble getting its existing stadium even modestly renovated for a CFL club, and look at the light-rail saga...

[Delirium]

that's a great shot of Le Massif! uninspiring i think was the wrong word. what i meant was the mountains outside quebec city don't have that 'wow' factor like the rockies or alps or even the coast mountains here. and that's the image i think most people think of when they think of winter olympics.

here's a chart showing Whistler compared to other landmarks - that's the wow factor i'm talking about.
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y101/oct2gon/untitled1-1.jpg

"Lillehammer, where average January lows are comparable to those in Quebec City"

true however, Lillehammer hosted the olympics starting Feb.12th where the average low is -10c.

[le calmar]

The mountains in Eastern Canada are nothing to compare with the Rockies. But Lake Placid did get the Games twice, and their mountains compare to the ones in QC area.

http://www.iloveny.com/Images/Regions/large/large_LakePlacid_Aerial.jpg
iloveny.com

There is no "wow factor" like you say, but they can hold ski competitions. I'd be surprised to see Rockies-like mountains in Sochi too. (I must say I don't know this city so I'm going to look)


PS: Ok nevermind, Sochi has big mountains!

[Acajack]

true however, Lillehammer hosted the olympics starting Feb.12th where the average low is -10c.

I'd say temperature is not a significant factor that would prevent Quebec City from getting the games. If the IOC were to choose Quebec City, the average temperatures, snowfall and snow cover would be studied meticulously to find the optimal time of year, which in Quebec City might even end up being early March.

The dates are always moveable, just as they have been for other Olympics such as Sydney's, held in Sept. and Oct. (as were Seoul's).

[Delirium]

summer games are different. the dates are more changeable because you don't have to worry about snow melting. Don't forget that the Paralympic games are always held after the olympic ones and they last 3 weeks. If QC held the games in March that would mean the paralympics would be pushed to April. That's too late in the season and conditions would be crap.

if you look back at past winter olympics, they all started around the same day (give or take 1 or two days) except for a few pre-1964.

and yeah, lake placid and Le Massif can hold ski competitions but these are the olympics. i think people expect a little more than "can hold".
i dunno - that's just me.

[mr.x]

The 45,000 quota can be made up easily be adding a media village (and selling it as real estate after the Games), renting cruise ships, etc.

Are you talking about Vancouver or Edmonton? Because cruise ships certainly wouldn't work for the latter.:haha:

There aren't enough cruise ship docks in the city, we've maxed out their use already for the Winter Games to accommodate ~15,000 more people.

Vancouver's Olympic Village for athletes and officials will cost $800-million to build and it'll house 4,500 people after the Games. We'll need a lot more media villages and a lot more money to fill in that 45,000 gap....it's cheaper to just wait for the number of hotel rooms to naturally grow...

[mr.x]

Vancouver will never host a summer Olympics. It's too small. Look at the recent bid and host cities: London, Beijing, Rio, Chicago, Madrid, Tokyo. Even Toronto is on the smaller end of that list, let alone Vancouver.

I wonder if Ottawa has ever considered the winter Olympics. It's the right size, close to Mont-Tremblant, it would be great publicity for a bilingual capital, and it's slightly warmer than Quebec City.

Winning the Games and being able to host them are two different things.

Vancouver's odds of getting the Summer Games for the next 50 years are substantially low considering we won't be capable of hosting the Summer Games (with the needed infrastructure) until around 2030 and we already hosted the Winter Games.

Ottawa doesn't have the infrastructure needed to host the Winter Games.

[Mister F]

Ottawa doesn't have the infrastructure needed to host the Winter Games.
Can you be more specific? No city has the infrastructure needed before it hosts the games, it has to get built. That includes Vancouver. There's nothing that's needed for the games that couldn't be built in the Ottawa area.

[mr.x]

Can you be more specific? No city has the infrastructure needed before it hosts the games, it has to get built. That includes Vancouver. There's nothing that's needed for the games that couldn't be built in the Ottawa area.

An international airport nearby with flights connecting to worldwide destinations AND being able to handle the surge in passengers and flights that the Games bring.

Does the host city/region have at least 25,000 hotel rooms?

Is there sufficient infrastructure to move a surge of 300,000 spectators, media, athletes, officials, and VIP's for 17-days?


Among the sports venues that are needed (capacities are the absolute minimum requirement):
- 12,000 seat arena for figure skating/short-track speed skating (Pacific Coliseum, existing, 16,000)
- 10,000 for the primary ice hockey arena (GM Place, existing, 19,000)
- 6,000 for the secondary ice hockey arena (UBC, replacement, 7,500)
- 3,000 for the curling arena (Vancouver, new community centre, 6,500)
- 6,000 for speed skating (Richmond Oval, new community centre, 8,000)
- halfpipes for snowboarding, 6,000 (Cypress, 12,000)
- freestyle skiing venue, 6,000 (Cypress, 12,000)
- ski jump stadium, 6,000 (Whistler, 12,000)
- nordic combined/cross country/biathlon, 6,000 (Whistler, 12,000 x 2)
- bobsleigh/luge/skeleton track, 6,000 (Whistler, 12,000)
- Olympic qualified downhill skiing course, 6,000 (Whistler, 6,500)

Non-competition venues:
- Olympic Stadium, 35,000 (BC Place 60,000)
- Nightly Medals Ceremony Plaza, 8,000 (BC Place 35,000; Whistler 8,000)
- Olympic Village (5,000)
- International Broadcast Centre 300,000 sq. feet (Vancouver Convention Centre, 600,000 sq. feet)
- Main Press Centre 250,000 sq. feet (Vancouver Convention Centre, 600,000 sq. feet)
- Organizing Committee Headquarters 500,000 sq. foot office space
- Olympic Security Headquarters 300,000 sq. foot office space

Media accommodation (via hotels or media village):
- 10,000+ media personnel for 2010, hotels



Vancouver is probably the most capable Winter Games host in quite awhile. A lot of venues already exist, and many new venues were to be built regardless of the Games.

[Acajack]

An international airport nearby with flights connecting to worldwide destinations AND being able to handle the surge in passengers and flights that the Games bring.

Does the host city/region have at least 25,000 hotel rooms?

Is there sufficient infrastructure to move a surge of 300,000 spectators, media, athletes, officials, and VIP's for 17-days?


Among the sports venues that are needed (capacities are the absolute minimum requirement):
- 12,000 seat arena for figure skating/short-track speed skating (Pacific Coliseum, existing, 16,000)
- 10,000 for the primary ice hockey arena (GM Place, existing, 19,000)
- 6,000 for the secondary ice hockey arena (UBC, replacement, 7,500)
- 3,000 for the curling arena (Vancouver, new community centre, 6,500)
- 6,000 for speed skating (Richmond Oval, new community centre, 8,000)
- halfpipes for snowboarding, 6,000 (Cypress, 12,000)
- freestyle skiing venue, 6,000 (Cypress, 12,000)
- ski jump stadium, 6,000 (Whistler, 12,000)
- nordic combined/cross country/biathlon, 6,000 (Whistler, 12,000 x 2)
- bobsleigh/luge/skeleton track, 6,000 (Whistler, 12,000)
- Olympic qualified downhill skiing course, 6,000 (Whistler, 6,500)

Non-competition venues:
- Olympic Stadium, 35,000 (BC Place 60,000)
- Nightly Medals Ceremony Plaza, 8,000 (BC Place 35,000; Whistler 8,000)
- Olympic Village (5,000)
- International Broadcast Centre 300,000 sq. feet (Vancouver Convention Centre, 600,000 sq. feet)
- Main Press Centre 250,000 sq. feet (Vancouver Convention Centre, 600,000 sq. feet)
- Organizing Committee Headquarters 500,000 sq. foot office space
- Olympic Security Headquarters 300,000 sq. foot office space

Media accommodation (via hotels or media village):
- 10,000+ media personnel for 2010, hotels



Vancouver is probably the most capable Winter Games host in quite awhile. A lot of venues already exist, and many new venues were to be built regardless of the Games.

No doubt about this. However, it's a fallacy to suggest that Ottawa hasn't already got most of this, with a number of elements to put in place (just like any other Olympic city).

In any event, it' s a moot point because apparently it's not in Ottawa's civic to aim high for stuff like this. But that's not to say it couldn't put together a decent bid. It could. As could (and perhaps will) Quebec City.

And by the way, can you really fly direct non-stop from New York to Torino or Sochi?

[mr.x]

^ Ottawa could certainly build all of this. But what will it do with all of these venues after the Games?

My point about the airport is Ottawa is going to need a much bigger airport than it has now, and it'll need a lot more worldwide connections.

I'd wager Ottawa wouldn't be capable of hosting until the late-2020s.

[Nicko999]

But why another Winter Olympics? We should be aiming for the Summer Olympics. And it's not as if our summer athletes can't excel, as some have suggested here. .


Thank you!

[Acajack]

^ Ottawa could certainly build all of this. But what will it do with all of these venues after the Games?

My point about the airport is Ottawa is going to need a much bigger airport than it has now, and it'll need a lot more worldwide connections.

I'd wager Ottawa wouldn't be capable of hosting until the late-2020s.

Ottawa's airport is actually bigger that both Turin's and Sochi's...

Turin actually relied on Milan's airport (about 160 km away) a lot for the games, which is almost the same distance as Ottawa is to Montréal-Trudeau airport.

As I've said before, an Olympic bid from Ottawa isn't going to happen.

But that doesn't mean I still won't be picky about facts.

[MolsonExport]

I would personally love to see the Winter Olympics come to Quebec City, or for that matter, the Summer Olympics to Toronto.

What I also would like, is for the games to tone down a bit, in terms of cost/facilities/infrastructure, etc., and for candidacy of the location of the games to be truly international in scope...that is, not just USA-Europe-USA-Europe-with a sop to Korea/Japan (and finally, China). What about future venues in South America and Africa? What about India, Indonesia, or some other big Asian country?

[habfanman]

What's with all the Vancouver hostility towards anywhere else holding the Olympics?

The "wow" factor is ridiculous. Viewers are supposed to be "wowed" by the athletes, not by post card stock shots of mountainous scenes. I don't recall anyone complaining about Lake Placid, Sapporo, Lillehammer, Sarajevo, Nagano or any other non-Alps, non-Rockies location. Québec City would have no problem wowing everyone with the beauty and non-anality of the city itself.

Waiting for Toronto to host the summer Olympics is code for "never holding another Olympics in Canada in our lifetime". May as well make peace in the Middle East or condos on Mars as prerequisites, at least they're acheivable goals.

Enjoy the Olympics Vancouver but try to allow the rest of us to enjoy them as well by sparing us the non-stop propaganda from the Ministry of Statistical Greatness.

[mr.x]

I would personally love to see the Winter Olympics come to Quebec City, or for that matter, the Summer Olympics to Toronto.

What I also would like, is for the games to tone down a bit, in terms of cost/facilities/infrastructure, etc., and for candidacy of the location of the games to be truly international in scope...that is, not just USA-Europe-USA-Europe-with a sop to Korea/Japan (and finally, China). What about future venues in South America and Africa? What about India, Indonesia, or some other big Asian country?

Unfortunately, the scope won't get any smaller as the Games are always getting bigger.

Is South America and South Africa capable of hosting the Games? South Africa is of course hosting the 2010 World Cup, and even that has been a major challenge for them. I believe New Delhi wants to bid for the 2020 Summer Games, and Kuala Lumpur tried to bid for the Summer Games as well during the 1990's. Rio de Janeiro is probably South America's most capable city to host the Olympics, and yes they are bidding for 2016.

[mr.x]

What's with all the Vancouver hostility towards anywhere else holding the Olympics?

The "wow" factor is ridiculous. Viewers are supposed to be "wowed" by the athletes, not by post card stock shots of mountainous scenes. I don't recall anyone complaining about Lake Placid, Sapporo, Lillehammer, Sarajevo, Nagano or any other non-Alps, non-Rockies location. Québec City would have no problem wowing everyone with the beauty and non-anality of the city itself.

Waiting for Toronto to host the summer Olympics is code for "never holding another Olympics in Canada in our lifetime". May as well make peace in the Middle East or condos on Mars as prerequisites, at least they're acheivable goals.

Enjoy the Olympics Vancouver but try to allow the rest of us to enjoy them as well by sparing us the non-stop propaganda from the Ministry of Statistical Greatness.

I don't think anyone here wouldn't want to see another Olympics in Canada in the near future. But all we're doing here is being realistic about our odds of having a successful bid in the near future and being realistic about the capability of these cities to host the Games.

Fact is, we need a Summer Games much more than the Winter Games. As a Vancouverite, I'll even admit that it was a big mistake for the COC to allow Quebec City, Vancouver, and Calgary to bid for the domestic rights to bid on behalf of the entire nation for the 2010 Winter Games to the IOC. The Winter Games will benefit mainly the host region, but a Summer Games stands to benefit the entire nation with the needed summer sports infrastructure for our summer athletes to excel. I'm quite sure Toronto would have had a very good chance at winning 2012 or 2016 had Canada not won 2010.

We're not saying Quebec City shouldn't try to bid for 2022, you never know if you don't try. But what we're saying is: the odds to win aren't good with Vancouver hosting just years before.

As for Toronto not bidding for the Summer Games and as a nation we should simply give up on the Summer Games and go for the Winter Games only, well then we've already failed.

And finally, with regards to the "non-stop propaganda from the Ministry of Statistical Greatness"....hardly propaganda when these are actual facts. Surely, you wouldn't be arguing against having an educated opinion?

[Mister F]

^ Ottawa could certainly build all of this. But what will it do with all of these venues after the Games?

My point about the airport is Ottawa is going to need a much bigger airport than it has now, and it'll need a lot more worldwide connections.

I'd wager Ottawa wouldn't be capable of hosting until the late-2020s.
The same thing that Calgary and Vancouver are doing with all their Olympic venues. They'd be the only winter Olympic venues in all of eastern Canada, and would no doubt attract people from the northeast US as well...you know, the most densely populated part of the continent.

Do other Olympic cities have the hotels and airports you seem to think are necessary? You don't need a big city to host the winter Olympics. Ottawa and Quebec City are both bigger than Nagano and Sochi, and comparable to Turin. They could easily host the Olympics.

Waiting for Toronto to host the summer Olympics is code for "never holding another Olympics in Canada in our lifetime". May as well make peace in the Middle East or condos on Mars as prerequisites, at least they're acheivable goals.
Toronto getting the summer Olympics is definitely achievable.

[mr.x]

The same thing that Calgary and Vancouver are doing with all their Olympic venues. They'd be the only winter Olympic venues in all of eastern Canada, and would no doubt attract people from the northeast US as well...you know, the most densely populated part of the continent.

Do other Olympic cities have the hotels and airports you seem to think are necessary? You don't need a big city to host the winter Olympics. Ottawa and Quebec City are both bigger than Nagano and Sochi, and comparable to Turin. They could easily host the Olympics.

Toronto getting the summer Olympics is definitely achievable.

It's not what I seem, it's what the IOC says is necessary. The IOC creates a manual for bid cities to follow when creating their bid plans.

Bid cities are required to provide a detailed summary of the host region's accommodation in their bid books for "Theme 14 - Accommodations". Existing number of hotel rooms must be listed, as well as the number of planned/under construction hotel rooms. And the class rating for the rooms (5,4,3,2 stars). A map of all the hotels is even required.

There's also an entire section for Transportation (including airports) as well.

Don't be happy about just being able to do the minimum, because you're going against other cities.



http://img256.imageshack.us/img256/6066/venues.png

[Delirium]

Quebec city has 12,000 "lodging facilities" right now. they would have build 10,000 more units just to meet the minimum requirement of 22,000 rooms. http://www.quebecregion.com/e/hotels.asp
that's a lot of rooms to build for one event just to have them sit empty afterwards.

what would QC do for their stadium? build a new 50,000+ stadium? seems like a waste.

i think the world gets that canada is a winter nation. let's move on to something else.

[mr.x]

^ the Olympic Stadium for the Winter Games doesn't need to be that big. Torino got away with using a 27,000-seat stadium and adding 8,000 temporary seats on the stadium floor to boost overall capacity to 35,000-seats.....though mind you, I thought it made a terrible venue for the Opening/Closing Ceremonies.

Vancouver's BC Place Stadium with 60,000 seats will be by far the largest Olympic Stadium for the Winter Games. And by far, the largest medals ceremonies venue with 35,000 seats.

[habfanman]

Quebec city has 12,000 "lodging facilities" right now. they would have build 10,000 more units just to meet the minimum requirement of 22,000 rooms. http://www.quebecregion.com/e/hotels.asp
that's a lot of rooms to build for one event just to have them sit empty afterwards.

what would QC do for their stadium? build a new 50,000+ stadium? seems like a waste.

i think the world gets that canada is a winter nation. let's move on to something else.

Let's assume, shall we, that each of those "lodging facilities" has 2 or more rooms. That would make for more than 22,000. I would hazard a guess that there are more than 22,000 beds of the 4 or 5 star category alone in Québec city. The Chateau Frontenac has over 600. Do you have any idea how many tourists flock to the city each year?

Why do you need a 50,000 seat stadium for the winter Olympics?

[mr.x]

I'm pretty sure Quebec City has enough accommodation for the Winter Games....afterall, it was certainly enough to bid for the 2002 Games.

[habfanman]

Vancouver's BC Place Stadium with 60,000 seats will be by far the largest Olympic Stadium for the Winter Games. And by far, the largest medals ceremonies venue with 35,000 seats.

That's fascinating! I've also heard that a record number of the largest and most expensive finishing nails were used on the speed skating oval. Is this true?

[mr.x]

^ size matters for impressive ceremonies. The Americans have sure noted it. The atmosphere for Sydney's ceremonies at Stadium Australia with 110,000 seats was surreal.

I think you're the one with issues here. This is a forum about architecture, expect to talk about details regarding to architecture.

[habfanman]

This is a forum about architecture, expect to talk about details regarding to architecture.

Yes, but this is a thread about Québec City's bid for the 2022 Winter Olympics.

[mr.x]

^ and everything revolving the Olympics especially the previous Games Canada hosted is quite vital to the discussion. The IOC's reference to Quebec hosting the Winter Games will be Vancouver.

[habfanman]

^ and everything revolving the Olympics especially the previous Games Canada hosted is quite vital to the discussion. The IOC's reference to Quebec hosting the Winter Games will be Vancouver.

But spewing factoids about an event before it has occurred doesn't help the discussion does it? We'll have to wait until it's over before we can draw any conclusions from it ie: what worked, what didn't.

[mr.x]

^ suggesting to even host another Olympics when we're half a year away from hosting the next one isn't the best idea either. ;)

Please remember that you were the one that said things that simply weren't true about the Olympic Village, which led me to debunking that.

Ticket sales for 2010 have been a huge success, that's one thing.

[habfanman]

^ suggesting to even host another Olympics when we're half a year away from hosting the next one isn't the best idea either. ;)

Please remember that you were the one that said things that simply weren't true about the Olympic Village, which led me to debunking that.

Ticket sales for 2010 have been a huge success, that's one thing.

But you said yourself that Québec would have to start planning now for a bid on a games held 13 years from now.

I'll quote myself: "The Olympic Village fiasco is an indication of the type of problem that can arise." What's not true about that? You did nothing to debunk anything, you simply sugar coated the problem by suggesting that the city may only be on the hook for 100-200 million $. I'm sure that there are some people in Vancouver- not Olympic super-boosters such as yourself mind you- who may have a problem with that.

The rest of the country doesn't base their plans around Vancouver 2010 and whether or not Toronto may or may not, sometime in the near or distant future, successfully or unsuccessfully, bid on the Summer Olympics. Ontario may be desperately short of sporting infrastructure but that's not the case in Montréal where the legacy of the 76 games is a complete set of Olympic facilities.

[Acajack]

Quebec city has 12,000 "lodging facilities" right now. they would have build 10,000 more units just to meet the minimum requirement of 22,000 rooms. http://www.quebecregion.com/e/hotels.asp
that's a lot of rooms to build for one event just to have them sit empty afterwards.

what would QC do for their stadium? build a new 50,000+ stadium? seems like a waste.

i think the world gets that canada is a winter nation. let's move on to something else.

I think it's the constant naysaying that is annoying people. I think everyone knows that hosting the Olympic games is a huge undertaking and putting together a good bid doesn't even guarantee success.

That said, it seems like with some people here that every single excuse possible to justify that Quebec City (and Ottawa to a lesser degree) will NEVER get the games is being pulled.

Next thing you know we'll be told that these two cities would never get the Olympics because they don't have a Planet Hollywood or someting ridiculous like that... :shrug:

As for the points in the quoted post, I'd really like to know if Sochi really has 25,000 hotel rooms. I know it's a resort city but it's still relatively small (roughly 300,000 people). When once considers that all of Greater Vancouver with more than 2.5 million people and a major North American tourist destination comes in just under at 24,000, it would be quite surprising that Sochi has the 25,000. But maybe I am wrong. Note also that Sochi is hosting the Winter Olympic Games in 2014, not in 1984 and not in 1936.

As for the stadium, as others have said I don't think 50,000 is a minimal requirement, as even very recent Winter Olympics have shown. More likely is that Quebec City would build a 35,000-seat stadium that would be then be used for a new CFL club.

[mr.x]

But you said yourself that Québec would have to start planning now for a bid on a games held 13 years from now.

WOULD have to doesn't mean it's appropriate.


I'll quote myself: "The Olympic Village fiasco is an indication of the type of problem that can arise." What's not true about that? You did nothing to debunk anything, you simply sugar coated the problem by suggesting that the city may only be on the hook for 100-200 million $. I'm sure that there are some people in Vancouver- not Olympic super-boosters such as yourself mind you- who may have a problem with that.

The whole Vancouver forum would quite disagree with your thoughts on the Olympic Village.:rolleyes: What would you know being across the country?

It's not sugar coating, it's factual. The media and the city have reported that is the worse case scenario: it's even why everyone has stopped talking about it. And considering we're in a recession, that's not too bad. The whole issue was overblown for political reasons in the first place.



The rest of the country doesn't base their plans around Vancouver 2010 and whether or not Toronto may or may not, sometime in the near or distant future, successfully or unsuccessfully, bid on the Summer Olympics. Ontario may be desperately short of sporting infrastructure but that's not the case in Montréal where the legacy of the 76 games is a complete set of Olympic facilities.

The venues at Montreal have aged and are outdated for our summer athletes to be able to excel to the level we want them to be at.

A Summer Games in Toronto doesn't just help Toronto or Ontario, IT HELPS THE WHOLE NATION. We need summer sport infrastructure for our summer athletes. Calgary, and now to a slighter extent Vancouver, will always be the training centres for our winter athletes - and we're already a winter sport powerhouse, evenmoreso after Vancouver. And with a Toronto Summer Games, we get summer sport training centre for our nation for our athletes to climb up that podium.

Canadian cities that want to bid for an Olympics must get approval from the Canadian Olympic Committee. You don't simply submit a bid application to the IOC. And if there is more than one city wanting to represent Canada in the bid, the COC asks them to present a general bid plan in which the COC will then vote on. The whole problem is the COC seems to be geared only to the winter sports/athletes, and for far too long (until recently) have the summer athletes/sports received any real attention and funding from the organization. The COC suggesting that Quebec City bid for the 2022 Winter Games says it all.

You can't see the big picture here: think nationally, not regionally.

At this point, Vancouver 2010/VANOC has control of much of the COC's obligations. And you would be a fool to not consider the post-2010 timeline and the odds of winning the Games after Vancouver.

[theman23]

The venues at Montreal have aged and are outdated for our summer athletes to be able to excel to the level we want them to be at.



Don't be silly. If it wasn't for the olympic velodrome, this country would never have developed world-class cyclists such as Bobo Coconuts.

[LotusLand]

^ so true.

[MolsonExport]

Velodrome in Mtl is long gone (biodome)

[mr.x]

The velodrome is long gone, as the above poster has mentioned. But we still do benefit from facilities including the rowing and aquatic centre.

[habfanman]

WOULD have to doesn't mean it's appropriate.




[QUOTE]The whole Vancouver forum would quite disagree with your thoughts on the Olympic Village.:rolleyes:
While the Vancouver SSP forum may disagree, Moody's, Standard & Poor's and DBRS were concerned enough to downgrade Vancouver's credit rating because of the fiasco. Now there's evidence of shoddy construction.

The venues at Montreal have aged and are outdated for our summer athletes to be able to excel to the level we want them to be at.
What would you know being across the country?
FINA didn't see a problem when they held the World Aquatic Championships here in 2005. Do you not think that the facillities have been continuously expanded/upgraded over the years or do you think they've been left as they were in '76? Maybe anything over 20 years old qualifies as a museum/historic site in Vancouver.

IT HELPS THE WHOLE NATION.
Where was this concern for the WHOLE NATION when Vancouver bid on the games?

We need summer sport infrastructure for our summer athletes. And by waiting 20-30 years for Toronto to host the Olympics, IF they ever host the Olympics, only yet to be born athletes will benefit. We won't begin to see results until 2040, 2050. Great plan!

And with a Toronto Summer Games, we get summer sport training centre for our nation for our athletes to climb up that podium.
But it won't benefit anyone who is alive today, including babies who are being born as we speak.

Canadian cities that want to bid for an Olympics must get approval from the Canadian Olympic Committee. You don't simply submit a bid application to the IOC. And if there is more than one city wanting to represent Canada in the bid, the COC asks them to present a general bid plan in which the COC will then vote on.
Really? Thanks for explaining that. Now, where do babies come from?

The whole problem is the COC seems to be geared only to the winter sports/athletes, and for far too long (until recently) have the summer athletes/sports received any real attention and funding from the organization.
You don't need an Olympics in order to provide funding. Olympic bids and athlete funding are separate issues. A winter games needn't hurt summer athletes and vice versa.


The COC suggesting that Quebec City bid for the 2022 Winter Games says it all.
Maybe the COC sees no evidence of Toronto or anyone else bidding on a summer games in the forseeable future and has decided to work with a city that is willing to do something.

You can't see the big picture here: think nationally, not regionally.
You mean like Vancouver did, or are you the last of the regional thinkers and it is now incumbant upon the rest of us to do the 'right' thing? Now that you've gotten your way that is.

[mr.x]

While the Vancouver SSP forum may disagree, Moody's, Standard & Poor's and DBRS were concerned enough to downgrade Vancouver's credit rating because of the fiasco. Now there's evidence of shoddy construction.

Perhaps it's because the local media blew it out of proportion, and then the national and international media caught on? Obviously, by then the creditors would think there's something to worry about as well. It's called hysteria.

There's no actual proof that there's shoddy construction, besides the claims of a union employee that was probably pissed off because they weren't contracted for the construction job.



What would you know being across the country?
FINA didn't see a problem when they held the World Aquatic Championships here in 2005. Do you not think that the facillities have been continuously expanded/upgraded over the years or do you think they've been left as they were in '76? Maybe anything over 20 years old qualifies as a museum/historic site in Vancouver.


See my post above.



Where was this concern for the WHOLE NATION when Vancouver bid on the games?

See my previous post in the previous page. Nationally, it was certainly a big mistake by the COC to allow three Canadian cities to go after the 2010 Winter Games when a Summer Games was much more needed and with the stars aligning for a successful 2012/2016 Toronto bid. But that's after the fact, seven years now.



And by waiting 20-30 years for Toronto to host the Olympics, IF they ever host the Olympics, only yet to be born athletes will benefit. We won't begin to see results until 2040, 2050. Great plan!

But it won't benefit anyone who is alive today, including babies who are being born as we speak.

Since when does anything happen overnight?

We already have two major training centres for winter sports in Canada, we don't need a third. The winter athletes are more than bloated after Vancouver.




Really? Thanks for explaining that. Now, where do babies come from?

An asswipe like yourself?




You don't need an Olympics in order to provide funding. Olympic bids and athlete funding are separate issues. A winter games needn't hurt summer athletes and vice versa.

Without 2010, the $100-million+ Own the Podium program for winter athletes would not have happened. Every Olympic host nation doles out money so that their athletes can perform well enough, and hopefully win more medals at home. It happened with the Aussies for 2000, Americans in 2002, Greeks in 2004, Italians in 2006, and of course the Chinese in 2008. The IOC even pressured the Canadian governments to invest more in our winter athletes ahead of 2010.

The Olympics are a catalyst for more funding for the host nation's athletes. Simple as that.

Summer athletes are getting hurt by the winter athletes as much private sponsorship that usually goes to the summer athletes is now going to the winter athletes.





Maybe the COC sees no evidence of Toronto or anyone else bidding on a summer games in the forseeable future and has decided to work with a city that is willing to do something.

That may be true. Come to think of it, Toronto is bidding for the 2015 Pan American Games.




You mean like Vancouver did, or are you the last of the regional thinkers and it is now incumbant upon the rest of us to do the 'right' thing? Now that you've gotten your way that is.

I've always maintained these opinions for the last 8 years. These views are simply being voiced again. And at this point, it's after the fact.

We can't do anything about individual cities wanting to bid, for regional interests. For 2010, Calgary, Quebec City, and Vancouver went after the domestic rights. It's up to the COC to allow a bid, they are in charge of the national interests and goals with regards to amateur sport.




Anyhow, I've had enough with this thread. Goodbye.

[Urban_Genius]

In my opinion it's more likely that Canada host the winter Olympics before a summer edition. And as stated, if Chicago wins in 2016, you can forget about the games in North America for a couple summer Olympiads. If Chicago loses then all is possible. However it seems unlikely that Chicago would lose.

As for Quebec City, hosting the games, I think it would be a good thing but 2022 does seem pretty soon. Although realistically the winter games rotation is shorter then its counterpart.

[Jamaican-Phoenix]

When I first head this, the first thing in my mind was "this won't go over too well with the seperatists..."

However, that was immediately followed by a "cool, I'd go see those Olympics." :P

[SteelTown]

For the 1976 Olympics bid the Canadian Olympic Committee obviously selected Montreal but what was the other two cities bidding for the Olympic bid in the mid-60s?

[mr.x]

For the 1976 Olympics bid the Canadian Olympic Committee obviously selected Montreal but what was the other two cities bidding for the Olympic bid in the mid-60s?

Los Angeles, Moscow, and Montreal for 1976.

Moscow and Los Angeles for 1980.

Los Angeles for 1984.

[frinkprof]

^I may have misinterpreted, but I think he was asking which Canadian cities bid for the right to be the Canadian bid. I don't have the answer to that, but I would guess that the COC either wouldn't have had that process in the late 60s, or that Montreal was the only Canadian city wanting to bid.

As was said earlier in this thread, the bidding has gotten a lot more competitive since about the 80s, and especially since the 90s with many countries requiring their cities to go through a national bidding process before even getting to the IOC bid. For example, for the upcoming 2016 Games, Chicago had to beat out LA, Houston, Philadelphia, and San Francisco at the USOC level to get the right to be the US bid for the Games.

I only lurk here every now and again, but there is a site and forum dedicated to Olympic and other Games bids and awards:

www.gamesbids.com

[mr.x]

^ i think only Montreal bid for the Games in Canada. Only Montreal was capable of hosting them, and at that time Montreal was bigger and more thriving than Toronto.

[SteelTown]

Canadian bid like Quebec City and Vancouver for 2010 Olympics bid. COC selected Vancouver.

There was three Canadian bids, obviously Montreal and two others.

[eternallyme]

A serious hindering factor for any Quebec-based Olympic bid is the political climate there and the serious threat of separatism at any time. If any city from another province put up a serious bid, it would likely beat any Quebec bid. The only way I can see Quebec winning any Olympics is either once the separatist movement is exterminated or if they go independent.

[Château Frontenac]

A serious hindering factor for any Quebec-based Olympic bid is the political climate there and the serious threat of separatism at any time. If any city from another province put up a serious bid, it would likely beat any Quebec bid. The only way I can see Quebec winning any Olympics is either once the separatist movement is exterminated or if they go independent.

I think the default of not having a mountain tall enough for skiing competitions is a bigger issue than funky separatists

[jmt18325]

A serious hindering factor for any Quebec-based Olympic bid is the political climate there and the serious threat of separatism at any time.

It's not a serious threat though. It isn't even really a possibility. Polls consistently show that 60% of Quebecers support remaining in Canada, and there is a percentage (shown to be about 15%) that are just talking about separation. It would probably be the least of Quebec's worries.

[ToxiK]

A serious hindering factor for any Quebec-based Olympic bid is the political climate there and the serious threat of separatism at any time. If any city from another province put up a serious bid, it would likely beat any Quebec bid. The only way I can see Quebec winning any Olympics is either once the separatist movement is exterminated or if they go independent.

Québec's independence movement will never be exterminated. It can get weaker but will never dissappear. Anyone who wants to discredit a Québec-based Olympic bid (or anything else Québec-based for that matter) will always be able to use the separatist Bogeyman to scare people off.

[Rico Rommheim]

A serious hindering factor for any Quebec-based Olympic bid is the political climate there and the serious threat of separatism at any time. If any city from another province put up a serious bid, it would likely beat any Quebec bid. The only way I can see Quebec winning any Olympics is either once the separatist movement is exterminated or if they go independent.

Bullshit, sorry.

[Calgarian]

Separatism was more of an issue in '76 and Montreal got the games.

[le calmar]

Separatism is not a big issue here. I'm always suprised when I see Canadians talking about it like it was a threat.

[Rumors]

A serious hindering factor for any Quebec-based Olympic bid is the political climate there and the serious threat of separatism at any time. If any city from another province put up a serious bid, it would likely beat any Quebec bid. The only way I can see Quebec winning any Olympics is either once the separatist movement is exterminated or if they go independent.

Please tell me I'm not dreaming. :psycho:

[eternallyme]

According to old articles, it destroyed them in 2002 (they finished last in balloting) and hurt them badly in the Canadian bid in 2010.

[MolsonExport]

^as they say in academia, please cite sources.

[Calgarian]

According to old articles, it destroyed them in 2002 (they finished last in balloting) and hurt them badly in the Canadian bid in 2010.

Were these articles printed by Sun media? It sounds like the kind of BS they would write.

[Acajack]

According to old articles, it destroyed them in 2002 (they finished last in balloting) and hurt them badly in the Canadian bid in 2010.

Quebec City actually put in a very weak bid for 2002, by all accounts.

[Acajack]

Separatism is not a big issue here. I'm always suprised when I see Canadians talking about it like it was a threat.

I actually think it still is a very real threat. However, I will leave it up to you to decide if people like eternallyme actually help us put it all behind us or if they just add fuel to the fire.

I'd say people like him (her), who have "issues" with Quebec, play a big role in keeping the movement alive.

[eternallyme]

Here is the article for the 2010 case:

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/1998/12/01/olympicsI981201.html

The ballot boxes had been sealed since Nov. 21 because it was thought the decision would become an issue during the Quebec election. After today's announcement, many are saying Quebec City's bid was hampered by the province's volatile political climate.

[Acajack]

A serious hindering factor for any Quebec-based Olympic bid is the political climate there and the serious threat of separatism at any time. If any city from another province put up a serious bid, it would likely beat any Quebec bid. The only way I can see Quebec winning any Olympics is either once the separatist movement is exterminated or if they go independent.

Montreal was awarded the 1976 games in 1970 right in the middle of the FLQ crisis (which began several years before October 1970 and had been boiling throughout the 1960s).

[Acajack]

Here is the article for the 2010 case:

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/1998/12/01/olympicsI981201.html

The ballot boxes had been sealed since Nov. 21 because it was thought the decision would become an issue during the Quebec election. After today's announcement, many are saying Quebec City's bid was hampered by the province's volatile political climate.

"Many are saying"? Who are these many? No one is named.

Also, this is the Canadian Olympic Committee selection process, not the IOC's.