[TwinTowersForever]

The Twin Towers of the WTC were marveled by all. Because they were symbols of America's freedom they were destroyed. Many believed they should be rebuild t oshow our defiance as well as millions of others. Today we have that chance. A man named Kennethe Gardener has created a new Twin Towers plan that is taller safer stronger cheaper to build and supported by 9/11 families because it was designed partly by them. The plans can be seen at www.wtc2011.com or www.twintowersii.com. There is a fight going on to have them rebuilt at www.twintowersalliance.com. This is a proposed building. We will all find out how it goes soon. There is a good financing plan etc. The designer has it all worked out im just a supporter.

Here is a picture of the designer with his model

http://i194.photobucket.com/albums/z300/rhoads2000/Ken.jpg

A picture of the new model

http://i194.photobucket.com/albums/z300/rhoads2000/model3.jpg


http://i194.photobucket.com/albums/z300/rhoads2000/Facade.jpg

[wong21fr]

5....4....3....2....1....

[M II A II R II K]

Do you really think that the Freedom Tower as it is now will be demolished to make way for the new twin towers?

Try having it built somewhere else in Manhattan, and perhaps give it a different color, a nice gold perhaps, or gold plated stripes would work also.

[Parkway]

TalB stikes again...

[Dac150]

Not to mention that this guys so called design is so conveniently similar in so many ways to the proposal of Donald Trump way back when. Hey, if I didn’t know any better I’d say it’s the same exact one. Please, take this nonsense elsewhere; what you see rising, like it or not, is what you’ll be getting. End of story.

[Duffstuff129]

This project baffles me. The only resemblance these "Twin Towers" bear to the originals is the setback-less box shape. These towers don't even try to attain the subtle charm of the originals. If I were Minoru Yamasaki or the family of a 9/11 victim, I would be insulted.

Take this pile of trash away.

This is awful architecture.

[M II A II R II K]

And plus what's the antenna for? For show perhaps.

[M II A II R II K]

This project baffles me. The only resemblance these "Twin Towers" bear to the originals is the setback-less box shape. These towers don't even try to attain the subtle charm of the originals. If I were Minoru Yamasaki or the family of a 9/11 victim, I would be insulted.

Take this pile of trash away.

This is awful architecture.

Which makes one wonder does this proposal even have the same stem like reinforcement that went all the way up to the top to enable more floor space by not getting too crowded with elevators.

[MolsonExport]

TalB?

[Dac150]

This proposal is nothing but a cheap imitation that doesn’t even scratch the surface of the essence that the originals carried. Plus it’s lined on the bottom with condo buildings straight out of Palm Beach.

[theWatusi]

This is obviously not a serious proposal and this thread is going far beyond the standard beating of a dead horse.

[M II A II R II K]

So this can stay in the visionary forum.

[TwinTowersForever]

Do you really think that the Freedom Tower as it is now will be demolished to make way for the new twin towers?

Try having it built somewhere else in Manhattan, and perhaps give it a different color, a nice gold perhaps, or gold plated stripes would work also.

The engineer has assured us he can build over what has been done

[theWatusi]

so it's going to be a piece of cake to build 2 supertalls right onto of Path station without making any changes? :koko:

[TwinTowersForever]

Not to mention that this guys so called design is so conveniently similar in so many ways to the proposal of Donald Trump way back when. Hey, if I didn’t know any better I’d say it’s the same exact one. Please, take this nonsense elsewhere; what you see rising, like it or not, is what you’ll be getting. End of story.


Ken was the one who designed Trumps proposal. trump just promoted it. Besides the freedom tower was picked in an illegitamate process by Pataki that crook who picked the FT because of political contributions. He admitted it in an MSNBC interview recently

[TwinTowersForever]

This is obviously not a serious proposal and this thread is going far beyond the standard beating of a dead horse.

It is very serious. Go visit the TwinTowersAlliance.com page and see its no joke.

[theWatusi]

It is very serious. Go visit the TwinTowersAlliance.com page and see its no joke.

The Twin Towers Alliance is very much a joke to the majority of people here.

[TwinTowersForever]

Which makes one wonder does this proposal even have the same stem like reinforcement that went all the way up to the top to enable more floor space by not getting too crowded with elevators.

It does. It has column free floorspace like the originals, and all the rest. Im going to get another picture to put on here.

[TwinTowersForever]

This project baffles me. The only resemblance these "Twin Towers" bear to the originals is the setback-less box shape. These towers don't even try to attain the subtle charm of the originals. If I were Minoru Yamasaki or the family of a 9/11 victim, I would be insulted.

Take this pile of trash away.

This is awful architecture.



Just look at the new pics. How do they not "resemble the origanals" There taller stronger yatta yatta. They cant just rebuild the originals exactly they did some 21st century updating

[John Hinds]

I had no idea this idea was still alive to be honest, I thought it had died years ago once SOM were appointed for the Freedom Tower.
How many people are still involved with the TTA?
Is it just a few die hard fans of the Twin Tower design?


I'm sure you know at this point that you know that there isn't a shred of hope in it happening.

So is that model for sale? :D

[TwinTowersForever]

The Twin Towers Alliance is very much a joke to the majority of people here.

Why? fighting for a worthy cause is a joke? Or stating to the world that we wont let you change the skyline is a joke? I never got to see them and I want my chance..and the chance to say FU to Bin laden

[M II A II R II K]

Worthy cause or lost cause?

I say build it elsewhere, so we can have both the Freedom Tower and new twins.

[TwinTowersForever]

I had no idea this idea was still alive to be honest, I thought it had died years ago.
How many people are still involved with the TTA?


I'm sure you know at this point that you know that there isn't a shred of hope in it happening.

So is that model for sale? :D

No but just trust me when I say the TTA has a few events going on to finally show the world this design is superior. Just visit their site on the 12th of september. The Freedom Tower is a disaster and hated. I can prove that here


http://www.newsvine.com/_question/2009/01/26/2356649-should-new-york-city-reconsider-rebuilding-the-twin-towers-instead-of-the-planned-freedom-tower-

[TwinTowersForever]

Worthy cause or lost cause?

I say build it elsewhere, so we can have both the Freedom Tower and new twins.

IF they arent put in manhattan where they belong the designer has a deal to build them in New Jersey

[theWatusi]

http://www.newsvine.com/_question/2009/01/26/2356649-should-new-york-city-reconsider-rebuilding-the-twin-towers-instead-of-the-planned-freedom-tower-

Right, because that's a neutrally worded poll question. :jester: :jester: :jester:

[M II A II R II K]

I meant elsewhere from Ground Zero, obviously in Manhattan.

[TwinTowersForever]

Right, because that's a neutrally worded poll question. :jester: :jester: :jester:

I didnt write the question but pple still get the point

[Dac150]

IF they arent put in manhattan where they belong the designer has a deal to build them in New Jersey

And Lehman Brothers is providing the financing right? :haha:

[TwinTowersForever]

I meant elsewhere from Ground Zero, obviously in Manhattan.

Is there even any room to put them in manhattan?

[theWatusi]

I didnt write the question but pple still get the point

you're missing my point

[TwinTowersForever]

And Lehman Brothers is providing the financing right? :haha:

Idk the designer has a facebook and myspace go ask him. I know there's a financing plan just not the details

[TwinTowersForever]

you're missing my point

No I get the point. The entire thing is biased

[Dac150]

Idk the designer has a facebook and myspace go ask him. I know there's a financing plan just not the details

:dunce:

[John Hinds]

The Freedom Tower is a disaster and hated. I can prove that here


http://www.newsvine.com/_question/2009/01/26/2356649-should-new-york-city-reconsider-rebuilding-the-twin-towers-instead-of-the-planned-freedom-tower-

Giving an example of the vocal minority posting on an internet blog as an example of people hating something makes you look like an idiot

If you're trying to promote this idea in a serious way then using half truths is going to get you no friends around here.

If you're at all serious about this then I suggest you stop posting for an hour, let other people tell you why they think your idea is bad, and then come back with a professional response, rather than silly one liners that make you sound like you're in middle school.

[theWatusi]

:dunce:

:haha: :tup:

[TwinTowersForever]

Giving an example of the vocal minority posting on an internet blog as an example of people hating something makes you look like an idiot

If you're trying to promote this idea in a serious way then using half truths is going to get you no friends around here.

Its a poll on a news site. The comments on the petition on the TTA say it all. And thats just one petition there were alot more I just dont know where they are on the net. Oh and this pic doesnt lie either



http://i194.photobucket.com/albums/z300/rhoads2000/Half-of-New-York_600.jpg

[theWatusi]

The NY Post: Journalism at it's finest. :jester:

and an issue from 2002 at that

[TwinTowersForever]

http://www.twintowersalliance.com/petition/all-signatures

[theWatusi]

http://www.twintowersalliance.com/petition/all-signatures


http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showpost.php?p=4414455&postcount=17

[twintowers2011]

I am 16 and from Ohio, no where near New York, and I've never even BEEN to the WTC, but I know how important it is to rebuild what the terrorists took away. I support the Twin Towers 100%!

[TwinTowersForever]

I am 16 and from Ohio, no where near New York, and I've never even BEEN to the WTC, but I know how important it is to rebuild what the terrorists took away. I support the Twin Towers 100%!

The first (besides my own posts) sensical thing written in this thread.

[TwinTowersForever]

http://www.twintowersalliance.com/petition/forward-march

[theWatusi]

I am 16 and from Ohio, no where near New York, and I've never even BEEN to the WTC, but I know how important it is to rebuild what the terrorists took away. I support the Twin Towers 100%!

OK you've convinced me. I hope they start tearing down the new 1WTC tomorrow.

REBUILD THE TWINS!!!
:rolleyes:

[M II A II R II K]

http://www.twintowersalliance.com/moving-cat.GIF

[theWatusi]

:wizard:

[M II A II R II K]

And plus 2011 seems a bit optimistic come to think of it.

[Aleks]

Well anyways, even if this proposal was still alive it doesn't make any sense whatsoever.

First of all, why would you want to build 2 towers that look just the same as the same ones where thousands of people died? Rebuilding the WTC doesn't make it iconic, it makes it a stupidity. Why be reminded constantly about the 9/11 tragedy? Because we want to stick it to the terrorists? The only think we're sticking is 2 ugly shitpiles that make the terrorists happy. They know that they did it once. They might not try to do it again but 2 identical looking towers make them feel proud that they could do it.

And anyways, the WTC site is about rebirth. Where 2 buildings were destroyed more will rise. Better and stronger. It's all about redesigning and reinventing ways to keep the public safe. Not to mention that the new buildings will be more environmentally friendly and better looking.

Also, that memorial is hideous. Where are the trees that symbolize rebirth? Instead there's an outline of the WTC towers with twisted metal symbolizing the fall of a skyscraper. It doesn't make the site feel peaceful, it just makes it look like those people died in extremely painful ways.

The original WTC was too bland. It wasn't really ugly but it wasn't the best looking complex either. The new plan will look better in NY than the old one anyways.

[TwinTowersForever]

And plus 2011 seems a bit optimistic come to think of it.

It is. It will take 3-4 years. 2011 is the date they had in mind back in 08

[TwinTowersForever]

Well anyways, even if this proposal was still alive it doesn't make any sense whatsoever.

First of all, why would you want to build 2 towers that look just the same as the same ones where thousands of people died? Rebuilding the WTC doesn't make it iconic, it makes it a stupidity. Why be reminded constantly about the 9/11 tragedy? Because we want to stick it to the terrorists? The only think we're sticking is 2 ugly shitpiles that make the terrorists happy. They know that they did it once. They might not try to do it again but 2 identical looking towers make them feel proud that they could do it.

And anyways, the WTC site is about rebirth. Where 2 buildings were destroyed more will rise. Better and stronger. It's all about redesigning and reinventing ways to keep the public safe. Not to mention that the new buildings will be more environmentally friendly and better looking.

Also, that memorial is hideous. Where are the trees that symbolize rebirth? Instead there's an outline of the WTC towers with twisted metal symbolizing the fall of a skyscraper. It doesn't make the site feel peaceful, it just makes it look like those people died in extremely painful ways.

The original WTC was too bland. It wasn't really ugly but it wasn't the best looking complex either. The new plan will look better in NY than the old one anyways.

Sure I understand that but the Freedom Tower is like a piece of glass. I highly doubt it would stand up to a plane as well as the Twin Towers

[theWatusi]

:ahhh:

[Aleks]

The twin towers already fell once. The design is ridiculous. They would have to reinforce the entire structure. The freedom tower has escape stairs in every corner. Sure they could add the same features to a new TT design but just the fact that you have to look at those towers it makes me sick.

And the Freedom Tower will be the safest skyscraper once completed. The SWFC is already ridiculously safe and the Freedom Tower is expected to be even safer! Have you seen those columns? Have you seen the size of that core? Just because something looks good and shiny doesn't mean it's not powerful and safe.

[M II A II R II K]

And at what point does the Twintoweralliance give up?

When the Freedom Tower has topped out, or will there be a push to have it demolished and the Twin Towers take its place.....

[vandelay]

Anybody want to start a Rebuild Old Penn Station movement? America, especially the Boston-D.C. corridor, needs a high speed rail network. A new, rebuilt Penn Station would be the crown jewel in such a system. A great architectural tragedy will be atoned for, people will rely less on airplanes and foreign oil, terrorists both domestic and foreign lose! ;)

[TwinTowersAlliance]

Well anyways, even if this proposal was still alive it doesn't make any sense whatsoever.

First of all, why would you want to build 2 towers that look just the same as the same ones where thousands of people died? Rebuilding the WTC doesn't make it iconic, it makes it a stupidity. Why be reminded constantly about the 9/11 tragedy? Because we want to stick it to the terrorists? The only think we're sticking is 2 ugly shitpiles that make the terrorists happy. They know that they did it once. They might not try to do it again but 2 identical looking towers make them feel proud that they could do it.

And anyways, the WTC site is about rebirth. Where 2 buildings were destroyed more will rise. Better and stronger. It's all about redesigning and reinventing ways to keep the public safe. Not to mention that the new buildings will be more environmentally friendly and better looking.

Also, that memorial is hideous. Where are the trees that symbolize rebirth? Instead there's an outline of the WTC towers with twisted metal symbolizing the fall of a skyscraper. It doesn't make the site feel peaceful, it just makes it look like those people died in extremely painful ways.

The original WTC was too bland. It wasn't really ugly but it wasn't the best looking complex either. The new plan will look better in NY than the old one anyways.

Listen im from New York,and I don't want to wake up every morning and look
out my window and see that garbage they call the World Trade Center.Those Twin Towers model will be a perfect replacement of its predicessors.The Freedumb Tower has to go. Period...

[M II A II R II K]

A little late for that though.

[theWatusi]

There is no "freedom tower", what they're building is called 1WTC.

:D

[Duffstuff129]

IF they arent put in manhattan where they belong the designer has a deal to build them in New Jersey

http://www.memedepot.com/uploads/500/729_1242618977342.jpg

[bbeliko]

So, this is what it was like when Talb was around?????

[Dac150]

The first (besides my own posts) sensical thing written in this thread.

Sensical is a bogus word; kind of like how this is a bogus project. :dunce:

[CudaAhBuda_NYC]

The Freedom Tower was a bogus project from the start. How can you be proud of a plan that's barely progressing after almost 8 years, having problems being financed for almost 8 years, been changed multiple times and won't be completed fully until 2037 :haha: the wannabe so called WTC 1 along its 3 other towers is the embrassing symbol of the USA. Thats why there's the TwinTowersAlliance and the economically friendly Twin Towers II superior plan. My support is for Twin Towers II 100%. It puts up the middle finger up at the terrorists at a height of 1914 ft and shows we dont give a flip if you hated our icons from the start cause our American icon is back in the skyline like it or not - this is America "home of the brave" why should we have to completely alter the NYC skyline cause of what people that hate us think. There was nothing wrong w/ the NYC skyline when the Twin Towers were up so why fix something thats isnt broke.

[Aleks]

Nobody said that there was something wrong with the NY skyline pre 9/11. And isn't broke? Really?

And wow, really, do you really think that redesigning the entire complex won't cost more than what's being done now? They're started building foundations, the towers and the PATH terminal. Do yout think they'll be able to use the cores of 1WTC and 4WTC for those "new" twin towers? What about all the new permits the developers will have to request? The millions of dollars to do land survey's and reorganize the entire masterplan?

The new WTC isn't being built because we want to stick it to the terrorists. Sure we're building a memorial and 1WTC is the height of the North Twin Tower. But this new plan is mainly business. Silverstein and the PA aren't out to say "fuck you for destroying my towers"

I guess you guys also believe that 9/11 was an inside job? Right? It only explains why the terrorist knew where to hit.

Where's NYGuy when you need him?

[@KyleDavid13]

If you know buildings/skyscrapers/architecture then you know that every building has its story. The Twin Towers had a great story that every New Yorker grabbed and added too. America grew to love these two towers and use them as an icon of the American economic system...then to an American icon. They transformed New York and made a new standard for skyscrapers all across. The Twin Towers II plan must be built. The Freedom Tower (I refuse to call it 1 World Trade Center) is nice but doesn't fit into Lower Manhattan. I would love to see the building be built somewhere else besides Ground Zero. (Uptown, Brooklyn, Queens) New York can expand their buildings..they have 5 boroughs and Manhattan does have limited room.

[Dac150]

This is turning into an invasion. There’s too many of them coming from all directions, somebody do something! :ahhh:

[@KyleDavid13]

Do you really think that the Freedom Tower as it is now will be demolished to make way for the new twin towers?

Try having it built somewhere else in Manhattan, and perhaps give it a different color, a nice gold perhaps, or gold plated stripes would work also.

lol The Freedom Tower hasn't really started and why not demolish it when it will take 9 or so years to complete it anyway. The Twin Towers could be built a lot faster and with more effort/love.

[Duffstuff129]

Isn't it funny how SO many new people signed up just to post a single comment deriding the new WTC just as this thread was made???

:uhh: Nothing odd here...

[Dac150]

lol The Freedom Tower hasn't really started and why not demolish it when it will take 9 or so years to complete it anyway. The Twin Towers could be built a lot faster and with more effort/love.

To be honest I think a talking rat wearing a bellhop outfit is more credible than what you just said.

[theWatusi]

It must be wacky Wednesday here at SSP!

[John Hinds]

If you know buildings/skyscrapers/architecture then you know that every building has its story. The Twin Towers had a great story that every New Yorker grabbed and added too. America grew to love these two towers and use them as an icon of the American economic system...then to an American icon. They transformed New York and made a new standard for skyscrapers all across. The Twin Towers II plan must be built. The Freedom Tower (I refuse to call it 1 World Trade Center) is nice but doesn't fit into Lower Manhattan. I would love to see the building be built somewhere else besides Ground Zero. (Uptown, Brooklyn, Queens) New York can expand their buildings..they have 5 boroughs and Manhattan does have limited room.

:haha:

Your suggesting they build replicas of the Twin Towers in Uptown, Brooklyn or Queens? Are you out of your smegging mind?

Go away and do some basic research on the economics of such a proposal.

You don't build skyscrapers with dreams and wishes.

[Duffstuff129]

To be honest I think a talking rat wearing a bellhop outfit is more credible than what you just said.

:tup: :tup: :tup: :tup:

[CGII]

Without entertaining some of the glaringly moronic posts in this thread (it is so tempting!) let's break this down a little bit.

As a piece of architecture a twin towers resurrection would be a failure. Yamasaki's design was hinged around a specific program dictated by the Port Authority nearly half century ago. Structural capabilities of the time influenced and shaped the design as well, leading to the famous 'exoskeleton' design we all knew and loved.
The exoskeleton made for famously dreary interiors, with only 18 inches of window for every 12 inch of steel. If the WTC were rebuilt according to Yamasaki's design, it would be a recreation of a dank and depressing office environment that prohibited the entry of natural light. If a reworked design using a steel cage or core system were employed to free the exoskeleton and open up windows, the famous exterior appearance would be lost as would the integrity of the design.
As well, Yamasaki's design reflected architectural philosophy at the middle of the century; that it is indeed appropriate to plunk monolithic and unwelcoming buildings into an enormous patch of cityscape with no reference to context. The WTC was actually a burden to the streetscape of Lower Manhattan, and only to the skyline was it a boon.
Finally the designs of the 'Twin Towers Alliance' are offensive not only in their bastardization of Yamasaki's buildings, but also in their thoughtless site layout and secondary building design. The memorial is shoved off to a cramped corner of the site and enveloped in shadow, and arranged to prevent easy pedestrian access from the street. In fact the whole plot is such a thoughtless hodgepodge of buildings that circulation throughout the block would perhaps become worse than Yamasaki's design! And what's more, the design of the low rise buildings are totally unacceptable budget buildings. Pure slosh.

Structurally this is impossible too. I don't know who this 'head engineer' is exactly, but my guess is either he is a massive idiot or somebody has misread him. In order for the TTA proposal to be built, the entire site would need to be cleared again for development. The existing infrastructure is designed for the current WTC redevelopment and would need to be entirely retooled to accommodate such a drastic plan change.

Pragmatically the twin towers plan is also a tremendous failure. It is terrible logic to assume that because current project leadership has hit a few roadbumps in an otherwise incredibly sophisticated, extremely expensive and hyper sensitive piece of work that it would be more reasonable to simply hand the reins off to some third party that would magically get everything done with their cute little faux-throwback design.

Finally, as a symbolic gesture, rebuilding the twins would be almost an insult to New York's and this country's history. Yes buildings have stories, but stories end at some point. And in fact the only value many storied buildings have is that their stories are ended. Do we rebuild the Colisseum? Do we rebuild the Parthenon? No, these buildings have taken their place in history and acquired value for it. Rebuilding the twin towers would strip the buildings of their only merit: their iconic stature. To rebuild the same would be to pretend it never happened. To pretend it never happened would be a lie to everyone.

And in the end we'd be stuck with ugly buildings that don't work on their own or in the context of the city but what do you care you don't live here anyway? You live out in Ohio or Missouri and admit you don't know anything about New York or what it means to live here but somehow you think it's appropriate to impose your silly pipe dreams on us?

[MolsonExport]

Worthy cause or lost cause?

I say build it elsewhere, so we can have both the Freedom Tower and new twins.


I say, build it in Poughkeepsie. :D

[Mercedes Benzene]

Okay. Let me start by saying that I love this site! I've been following it daily for a couple years now, but I've never posted.

I really hate to make this my first post, but I'm just completely shocked by this moronic tool. How has he not been banned for trolling? It's also funny that the "supporters" of the TT2 in this thread all have just 1 post.:rolleyes:

LOVING 1WTC! There's no way it's going anywhere. :tup:

[MolsonExport]

Christ, just when I started to pine for the old TalB days...I am reminded of how we are all better off without him and his pipe dream.

[TwinTowersAlliance]

The twin Tower ii design can be retro fitted to be built on what what is currently done.I've seen the blue prints of how its gonna be contructed.
the towers can be done by 2011.next month there will be summits for the TTII design that i will be participating in since afterall ive been a member of the TTII since its debute 5 years ago.

[CGII]

The twin Tower ii design can be retro fitted to be built on what what is currently done.I've seen the blue prints of how its gonna be contructed.

Wrong. There currently exists no infrastructure to support where the twin towers would exist and in fact there is an entire train station in the way.

the towers can be done by 2011.

Not without slave labour or seriously cut corners design-wise.

Why is it a matter of speed? Do you want quality buildings that are safe and long lasting or do you want something second rate that pops up in the next two years?

[BStyles]

Good points made there, CGII. Let me also continue this.

You know, I loved watching the Twin Towers as I drove across the Brooklyn Bridge with my dad back in the 90's. I got to go up to Windows of the World, the memory is shabby, but I was there.

Truthfully, I'd love to have the World Trade Center rebuilt, still there in fact, but it wouldn't be the same, especially with new Twin Towers. The entire feel has been stripped, and it's purpose diminished. What once stood as an office complex became one of the world's largest retail and commercial centers, with the highest grossing restaurant in 2000. That's something you can't just replace like 9/11 never happened. Compare the terrorists to bullies. They pick on you, and all you do is pick up after yourself and move on. Those terrorists, like it or not, if the Twin Towers are rebuilt, will have won the war, and it will make the United States look like the type who ''pick up after themselves.''

All the naysayers about the new WTC have to learn this: we're not turning back because some people want the towers rebuilt. Have you took into consideration that the Freedom tower has raised FOUR of it's perimeter columns to record heights these few weeks? Have you took into consideration that the steel has been fabricated for the memorial, trees ready for planting in New Jersey, AND that the north pool has been squared off? Finally, have you took into consideration that the new towers jeopardize the placements of both the PATH and the 1 line? You can't just raze all of that away, both MTA and the Port Authority would raise hell before they agree to that.

Not to mention Silverstein Properties, the leaseholder of the site. Him the Port Authority and Daniel Libeskind can agree that they're not about to demolish progress, regardless of how long it took, IT'S STILL PROGRESS. The original twin towers weren't built in a day, much less from 2008-2011, and they would have probably would have been set back by the global recession as well. Clearing the site for them would put both the PA and SSP into debt, and money, unfortunately, plays a huge role when it comes to the World Trade Center.

Finally, the Slurry wall, the reinforced wall that held back the Hudson when the towers collapsed. Rebuilding the towers would mean extending the bathtub to reach the towers' needs, and since the land has already been excavated, would put it, although you don't think it's possible, years behind schedule.

The new site plan doesn't even consider any of these problems, it's just a failed attempt to appease people, and restore the skyline. I've studied the WTC site for years now, and when I saw this new plan, I knew it wasn't possible. You may hate the new WTC plan, even for the rest of your life, but it's a sign of dignity, hope, rebirth, of course, and showing terrorists around the globe that this is the United States, and you can't harm our freedom by taking down two of our landmarks. That's where the name ''Freedom Tower'' is derived from.

There's only so much you can do with this 16-acre site, and this isn't one of the smartest plans. You forget, that you have to run these plans by Larry Silverstein, and then the Port Authority. The plan isn't going to be put into consideration without their approval.

[CudaAhBuda_NYC]

What's done at the site could be used to continue the Twin Towers II. Just because you see steel high up where the Freedom Tower is doesn't mean anything, it could be converted to WTC 5 for the Twin Towers II.

[Lecom]

LOL @ this thread

Not to mention that this guys so called design is so conveniently similar in so many ways to the proposal of Donald Trump way back when. Hey, if I didn’t know any better I’d say it’s the same exact one. Please, take this nonsense elsewhere; what you see rising, like it or not, is what you’ll be getting. End of story.

It IS the same one. Gardner was also the designer of Trump's plan.

If you know The Freedom Tower (I refuse to call it 1 World Trade Center) is nice but doesn't fit into Lower Manhattan.

You think the Twin Towers fit into Lower Manhattan when they were first built?

[CudaAhBuda_NYC]

So lets just say the site was clear again. What plan would you want to have at Ground Zero - the Freedom Tower complex or Twin Towers II?

[Lecom]

What's done at the site could be used to continue the Twin Towers II. Just because you see steel high up where the Freedom Tower is doesn't mean anything, it could be converted to WTC 5 for the Twin Towers II.

They invested too much money into the foundation to underuse it like that.

And where do you see them building the TTII, even if they were approved right now? Tme memorial is already in place, T4 is atstreet level...

The "if the site was clear" question is irrelevant. The site is NOT clear, and the TTII design is incredibly implausible.

[Lecom]

Its a poll on a news site. The comments on the petition on the TTA say it all. And thats just one petition there were alot more I just dont know where they are on the net. Oh and this pic doesnt lie either



http://i194.photobucket.com/albums/z300/rhoads2000/Half-of-New-York_600.jpg

From the same newspaper that came up with this:

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2009/02/18/nyregion/18delonas2.480.jpg

[BStyles]

What's done at the site could be used to continue the Twin Towers II. Just because you see steel high up where the Freedom Tower is doesn't mean anything, it could be converted to WTC 5 for the Twin Towers II.

No it can't, why do you guys keep saying that?

You're talking about integrating a reinforced concrete and steel base, along with 24 60 feet, 70 ton steel beams, and about eighty feet of steel cage into an office building? Do you think that will appease viewers? The building already has an outline, and you're actually willing to go deep into the ground and dig that up? That's the part of the site plan that I don't get the most. The Freedom Tower is going up, no matter what you think.

Why don't you try telling the Luxembourg factories, who spent hundreds of man hours milling and fabricating the steel. They just put up a Manitowoc with an 118 foot long boom, so I guess that qualifies as nothing.

Like I said before, Larry Silverstein and the PA aren't going to turn back, especially with these points, and you keep thinking these companies have money to spend. Have you even been reading all the impasses stated in the posts above?

Let me ask you this, in a sense of the site, not towers, not compromise, but in the post 9/11 era. Are you(the construction managers) actually willing to walk on that site, and take down a building for something ''better''?

[TwinTowersForever]

From the same newspaper that came up with this:

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2009/02/18/nyregion/18delonas2.480.jpg

and? Do we all also recall that the Twin Towers II would be built off the original footprints?

[TwinTowersForever]

:ahhh:

Ya know if you really dont like this plan or thread there's other threads you can go post on instead of being a jerk to everyone here

[CudaAhBuda_NYC]

No it can't, why do you guys keep saying that?

You're talking about integrating a reinforced concrete and steel base, along with 24 60 feet, 70 ton steel beams, and about eighty feet of steel cage into an office building? Do you think that will appease viewers? The building already has an outline, and you're actually willing to go deep into the ground and dig that up? That's the part of the site plan that I don't get the most. The Freedom Tower is going up, no matter what you think.

Why don't you try telling the Luxembourg factories, who spent hundreds of man hours milling and fabricating the steel. They just put up a Manitowoc with an 118 foot long boom, so I guess that qualifies as nothing.

Like I said before, Larry Silverstein and the PA aren't going to turn back, especially with these points, and you keep thinking these companies have money to spend. Have you even been reading all the impasses stated in the posts above?

Let me ask you this, in a sense of the site, not towers, not compromise, but in the post 9/11 era. Are you(the construction managers) actually willing to walk on that site, and take down a building for something ''better''?:haha: What are youuuuu talking about. I didnt say nothin about diggin up, I don't know why you assumed that :haha: all I said was continue from were they left off w/ the Freedom Tower foundation and build WTC 5. That's what I meant when I say convert into WTC 5.

[Lecom]

and? Do we all also recall that the Twin Towers II would be built off the original footprints?

Where exactly on the site? Specifics, please. An image or two, relating to the current situation, would help.

Your argument is infantile, vague, and plain wrong. If you disagree, please back up your statements with specific points - exact location of the new towers relating to the current site buildout, structural system of the buildings, financing strategies, etc. I challenge you.

[TwinTowersForever]

Where exactly on the site? Specifics, please. An image or two, relating to the current situation, would help.

Your argument is infantile, vague, and plain wrong. If you disagree, please back up your statements with specific points - exact location of the new towers relating to the current site buildout, structural system of the buildings, financing strategies, etc. I challenge you.

Jesus im not the architect himself. I know there is a financial plan. The new twins are offset from the original footprints therefore the memorial is not in the way. I'll post a link to the site plan

http://www.wtc2011.com/Site_Plan.pdf

and it will be built with a higher grade steel and there will be a new thing in the design described by the architect himself in this video

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[TwinTowersForever]

Where exactly on the site? Specifics, please. An image or two, relating to the current situation, would help.

Your argument is infantile, vague, and plain wrong. If you disagree, please back up your statements with specific points - exact location of the new towers relating to the current site buildout, structural system of the buildings, financing strategies, etc. I challenge you.

Jesus im not the architect himself. I know there is a financial plan. The new twins are offset from the original footprints therefore the memorial is not in the way. I'll post a link to the site plan

http://www.wtc2011.com/Site_Plan.pdf

and it will be built with a higher grade steel and there will be a new thing in the design described by the architect himself in this video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KEWTt5vuits

[TwinTowersForever]

and if you still dont get it

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x8kAkjqOwIE

[CGII]

Jesus im not the architect himself. I know there is a financial plan. The new twins are offset from the original footprints therefore the memorial is not in the way. I'll post a link to the site plan

http://www.wtc2011.com/Site_Plan.pdf

In that plan WTC 1, 2, and 3 sit directly atop either PATH or MTA tunnels and there appears to be no thought as to how building over those functions is addressed and also no thought as to how to integrate transit into the plan. In my eyes there are four totally forgettable lowrises dwarfed by second rate replicas of not-that-agreeable buildings in the first place.

and it will be built with a higher grade steel and there will be a new thing in the design described by the architect himself in this video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KEWTt5vuits

The real 1 World Trade Center is being built of the highest grade steel and is structurally redundant many times over. It will be likely the strongest skyscraper in the world beyond a seismic region.

[JDRCRASH]

Try having it built somewhere else in Manhattan, and perhaps give it a different color, a nice gold perhaps, or gold plated stripes would work also.

But, but, it's not the same...:(

[CGII]

and if you still dont get it

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x8kAkjqOwIE

The developer spoke as if he had no knowledge of architecture or engineering. Period. That he addressed safety concerns by simply saying 'there are more stairwells and there are fireproof elevators and there is heavier steel' doesn't actually solve any of the important design problems a project of this undertaking would face. In fact, the addition of these super-modern breakthroughs actually pose much greater problems in their application to a 43 year old design than anything else. And at the end of the day, there is no creativity or vision in this project.

Architecture is an easy field for a real architect to get his ego carried away with, I will concede that. But architects are highly trained and skilled professionals. A grassroots proposal such as this is honourable in its intent, but it fails in actually accomplishing anything because honestly nobody knows what they're talking about. The TTA saying their product is superior to the real WTC is like an herbologist that tells you to take his remedies to cure your cancer instead of go to a licensed, professional doctor.

[TwinTowersForever]

The real 1 World Trade Center is being built of the highest grade steel and is structurally redundant many times over. It will be likely the strongest skyscraper in the world beyond a seismic region.[/QUOTE]

The only [I]real[I] 1 World Trade Center is the North Tower. the Freedom Tower will be nothing more than a 1776 ft high grave marker designed by a polish guy. Pathetic Pataki couldnt get a real american architect to do this.

[TwinTowersForever]

"The real 1 World Trade Center is being built of the highest grade steel and is structurally redundant many times over. It will be likely the strongest skyscraper in the world beyond a seismic region."


The only real 1 World Trade Center is the North Tower. the Freedom Tower will be nothing more than a 1776 ft high grave marker designed by a polish guy. Pathetic Pataki couldnt get a real American architect to do this.

[CGII]

The only [I]real[I] 1 World Trade Center is the North Tower. the Freedom Tower will be nothing more than a 1776 ft high grave marker designed by a polish guy. Pathetic Pataki couldnt get a real american architect to do this.

Okayyyy.....so it is actually a fake 1 WTC that has billions of dollars worth of investment behind and that I see is a hundred plus feet above the ground?

Also, this fake 1 WTC is being designed by David Childs, who was born in New Jersey, and the architect of your 'real' 1 WTC, Minoru Yamasaki, was Japanese.


I have a question: are you crazy?

[JDRCRASH]

There is a function called the "edit" button, TwinTowersForever.:)

[TwinTowersForever]

The developer spoke as if he had no knowledge of architecture or engineering. Period. That he addressed safety concerns by simply saying 'there are more stairwells and there are fireproof elevators and there is heavier steel' doesn't actually solve any of the important design problems a project of this undertaking would face. In fact, the addition of these super-modern breakthroughs actually pose much greater problems in their application to a 43 year old design than anything else. And at the end of the day, there is no creativity or vision in this project.

Architecture is an easy field for a real architect to get his ego carried away with, I will concede that. But architects are highly trained and skilled professionals. A grassroots proposal such as this is honourable in its intent, but it fails in actually accomplishing anything because honestly nobody knows what they're talking about. The TTA saying their product is superior to the real WTC is like an herbologist that tells you to take his remedies to cure your cancer instead of go to a licensed, professional doctor.


He has like three or four minutes to give the viewers basic info. He's not going to explain every detail right there. and the main architect of the Twin Towers II was Herb Belton who was the junior architect at Emery Roth & Sons on the original World Trade Center site.

[TwinTowersForever]

There is a function called the "edit" button, TwinTowersForever.:)

I know im doing a alot at once so I messed up the quote:P

[CGII]

He has like three or four minutes to give the viewers basic info. He's not going to explain every detail right there.

Okay, great. But we asked for specific, hard evidence to support your claims and that Today Show segment is insufficient in supplying any answers.

[Aleks]

So why did that idiot get an interview in the news? These rebuildthefreedomtowersgroup groups need to stay in their small blogs and bitch about the Freedom Tower for 15 more years until everyone forgets about them.