[jlousa]

As most of you are now aware the city is undergoing a review of Hastings Park. The first open house was yesterday and the info boards are now available online. I decided to create a thread for this topic so it wouldn't clog up the General Vancouver thread. I encourage everyone to look through the presenation boards and fill out the online questionare. Also attend the booth at the fair if you get the chance. Lets hear your ideas based upon whats proposed. This is not the thread to wish for Disneyland and to state how much you hate the fair. Positive/reasonable feedback is welcomed.

Link to presenation boards and questionaire.
http://vancouver.ca/pnepark/public.htm#OpenHouses

Sorry I couldn't post direct links to each panel, I've been working off a netbook at home and it's not been easy.:tup:

[Spoolmak]

Nice, how long until the upgrades are complete?

[mr.x]

I'm not sure what my opinion is yet, I'll need some time to think about it. I've always had quite a bit of interest in the future of the PNE, I see it as a pretty important cultural institution.

Here are some of the more important bits:



Rejuvenation of the PNE Fair
City Council has directed the Master Plan to achieve modest
growth for the PNE from its current 800,000 visitors during
the Fair to 1 million, still less than the 1.2 million of its
heyday. Research during the first phase of the Master Plan
showed that the PNE is constrained by the lack of indoor
space that can be used for exhibits. Facilities like the
Coliseum, Agrodome, and Garden Auditorium are suited
to shows and performances but are limited by substantial
area devoted to fixed seating. The addition of more flat
floor indoor space with flexibility to be set up in many
configurations is seen as necessary to allow the PNE Fair to
return to past attendance levels and to expand its role as an
economic generator for the region.





Festivals and Special Events
New buildings or the adapted Livestock Building would be
designed to work with the new Festival Plaza and Festival
Meadow spaces to be readily used for festivals, arts and
cultural events, markets, and commercial exhibitions,
including ones that use stages, tents, and other temporary
elements to suit their needs.





New Indoor Space Alternatives
The Master Plan process is exploring a range of ways to
add more indoor space on Hastings Park. New buildings
are expensive so the Plan is also looking at costs,
potential revenues, and sources of funding and potential
partnerships.
The top end of the range under study contemplates a large
new indoor climate-controlled space that could either
replace the Agrodome or wrap around it. This amount
of new space is projected to allow the Fair to reach a
minimum attendance of 1 million people in 17 days. New
year round indoor space would also provide the PNE with a
venue that can be programmed and rented all year for an
ongoing stream of revenue that will help to offset its cost of
construction.
The low end of the range being studied likely reduces
the projected attendance to that of recent years or even
less than 800,000. The lower cost alternatives consider
upgrades to the Livestock Building to make it weather proof
but not to heat it all year and, depending on its design,
to use it for exhibits, farmers’ markets, special events,
agricultural shows, and some storage. These alternatives
may also necessitate the use of temporary structures for
additional weather protection during the Fair or at special
events.
Adaptive reuse of the Livestock Building would follow
heritage resource planning principles for a building that is
not on the Heritage Register but has some heritage interest,
especially along its Miller Drive façade.




Role of Playland in Hastings Park
Research into Playland and comparisons to other
amusement parks across the world indicate a strong future
potential for Playland. It is the only attraction of its kind in
the region and continues to attract high levels of use for
its size every year. With the recent addition of Fright Nights
around Halloween, Playland has demonstrated its attraction
even outside its usual season.
Playland is second only to the PNE Fair as a source of
revenue generation and employment. Playland has managed
to stay successful in spite of not being able to invest in new
rides and attractions while its future awaits the outcome of
the Master Plan.




Greening Opportunities within Playland
The Master Plan is recommending that the site area of
Playland be expanded to achieve the following:
• Provide adequate space both to upgrade and renew rides
and attractions.
• Include comfortable seating and resting areas that are
landscaped.
• Provide trees, shrubs and plantings for shade, ecological
and aesthetic values.





Safety and Security at Playland
Some people have suggested taking down the fence around
Playland so that the public could move through the site in
all directions. This approach would require attendees to
pay separately for each activity. Unfortunately, this strategy
has been shown to be unworkable. All North American sites
now operate with secured boundaries. An enclosed site
ensures that the Playland is secure from damage when
closed and that disruptive people can be excluded from entry
maintaining a safe and secure family environment.
The Master Plan will explore a variety of creative, green
approaches to secure the edge of Playland such green walls
and water features.



Central Festival Plaza
A large parking lot at the heart of the park will be
transformed into public plaza designed both to host outdoor
activities and temporary tents during the PNE Fair and
to adapt to a variety of festival and special events during
the rest of the year. The City’s festivals are expanding in
number and size. A place such as the Festival Plaza with
good access and services for festivals is expected to be
well used. A farmers’ market is also a potential use for the
Festival Plaza.

The amphitheatre immediately to the east of this parking
lot is slated to be upgraded with weather protection over
its stage. Weather protection could also be extended over
some of the seats of the amphitheatre.
An open meadow may be sited near the plaza and
amphitheatre to offer space for people to sit on the grass
during events or to engage in informal games and picnics.
The size of this ‘Festival Meadow’ will depend on the
location selected for Playland in the final Plan.

Option 1
Playland could remain generally on its present site and
expand northward onto the adjacent parking lot. Playland
will be pulled back from Hastings Street to better connect
the Sanctuary and Empire Fields. This is the lower cost
option and the one that is most suited to phasing over a
number of years. The edges of Playland would then be
designed to integrate with the Sanctuary to the west and
Empire Fields to the east.

Option 2
A more expensive option under consideration is relocating
Playland to the east onto Empire Fields. In this option the
wooden rollercoaster would stay in place but on the west
rather than east side of Playland.
The current location of Playland on Windermere Hill would
then be available as park space next to the Sanctuary. This
new park space is proposed as a Festival Meadow used for
games and picnics between events, PNE Fair and festivals.
In this option, the meadow could be designed to compliment
the amphitheatre for large audiences.
If Playland moves to occupy Empire Fields, the sports
fields would be replaced nearby. A possible location for
replacement is the infield of Hastings Racecourse which is
larger than the current Empire Fields. This would require
tunnel access under the racetrack and may have some
limitations on game times.




Connecting to and through Hastings Park
The major streets around Hastings Park are barriers to easy
access for pedestrians and cyclists. Ideas for improvements
in the Master Plan include:

Renfrew Street Improvements and Crossings

The City is committed to redesigning Renfrew Street
with less of the right-of-way devoted to vehicles. The
space gained from narrowing the roadway will be
used for either wider sidewalks and boulevards or for
a central green median. Improvements will be designed
with easier access and enhanced safety as objectives.

Movement across Hastings Street
Hastings Street will continue to have three signalized
crosswalks to get people to Hastings Park. The locations
of these crossings will be refined to ensure they
connect to greenways in the community and improved
paths and entry points within the park, including a loop
path around the park.

Movement across McGill Street to New Brighton Park
For many years, the City has planned for a pedestrian and
cyclist overpass of McGill Street and the railway tracks
to link Hastings Park and New Brighton Park. This idea
remains a longer-term goal of the Plan. In the short-term,
a surface route is proposed.

East-West Greenway
The Master Plan will help to locate greenway connections
through Hastings Park. An east-west link will connect
somewhere around Triumph Street. Depending on the
eventual site for Playland, a grade separated section near
Cassiar Street may be needed to make this connection.

North-South Greenway
This greenway will be the northern section of the City’s
proposed Eastside Crosscut Greenway. This route will
connect Hastings Community Park (around Windermere
Street) through Hastings Park to New Brighton Park
and the existing Portside Greenway. This route requires
the horse barns on the east side of the racecourse to
be relocated to allow the new greenway to parallel the
proposed daylighted stream through this area.

Perimeter Multi-Use Pathway
The Master Plan envisions a continuous multi-use pathway
of approximately 3 km around the perimeter of the Park
to improve both internal connections and access to
surrounding streets. It is intended that this pathway will
not be part of the park used during the PNE Fair so as to
be available to the public year-round.





Consolidated Parking and Access
The scattered parking lots within the southern half of
Hastings Park would be converted to open space purposes
and the lost parking made up in new parking structures
with access from McGill Street and Bridgeway. This is an
expensive option but one that has major benefits including
increasing the area within Hastings Park devoted to park
activities and removes vehicles from the southern portion of
the park.
Existing surface lots in the northeast corner of the Park,
next to the Forum, and within Hastings Community Park
would be retained and upgraded in time.
Service vehicle and passenger pick up and drop off access
would be focused along an east-west roadway that partially
follows Miller Drive. This route would provide loading and
unloading for the major buildings of both the PNE and the
Racecourse. This route also has the potential to serve as an
internal transit or shuttle route/loop for Hastings Park.

Parking Solutions
The Master Plan seeks to replace surface parking with
parking structures. A several storey parking lot, built into
the hillside at the northwest corner of the Park, is the
recommended location. The intent is to maintain the current
number of parking spaces (approximately 3500) as parking
is consolidated in new locations.
As part of its lease, the Racecourse is expected to provide
parking for 500 cars. It is anticipated that it will coordinate
with the City to partner in structured parking.





Sustainability Strategy
The Master Plan is proposing a variety of sustainability
initiatives that will not only enhance the ecological
performance of the park, but will also focus on social and
economic sustainability of the surrounding community.
The Plan envisions:
• Daylighting Renfrew Creek as a key stormwater
management and green corridor for the park –
connecting the Sanctuary to New Brighton Park and the
Burrard Inlet.
• Harvesting stormwater from surrounding
neighbourhoods and redeveloped areas of Hastings
Park to feed the restored Renfrew Creek.
• Promoting alternative transportation by providing safe
and convenient connections, routes and facilities for
pedestrians and bicycles.
• Providing safe and accessible public open space that
meets the needs of Vancouver’s diverse population.
• Options for showcasing local food production and
products.
• Preserving and enhancing employment opportunities,
especially for youth.
• Building on PNE and Playland’s current initiatives such
as eco-friendly products and recycling, explore new
opportunities to enhance sustainable practices.
• Improving the performance of existing buildings and
achieving the City’s standard of LEED Gold for any new
buildings.

[mr.x]

http://img530.imageshack.us/img530/8358/playc.jpg

[MechMike]

I particularly like the idea of greening the rides and stuff. But I'm totally in for that seven story parking lot and stuff.

[jlousa]

Future looks pretty good for the PNE.:tup:

Anyways here's a few presentations on the fair. Looks of terrific data in them. You'll need to set aside some time though they're huge.

Open space analysis 7mb (25pages)
http://vancouver.ca/pnepark/pdf/masterplan/openspaceanalysis.pdf

PNE and Playland report 42mb (124pages)
http://vancouver.ca/pnepark/pdf/masterplan/PNEFairPlayland.pdf

Market review and opportunities 1.5mb (49pages)
http://vancouver.ca/pnepark/pdf/masterplan/marketreview.pdf

[Rothwell]

Wow. The master plan really has taken everything into account down to the last detail. So they're planning on leaving no space undeveloped?

[flight_from_kamakura]

sort of bizarre aside: i just watched through the full season of "da vinci's city hall" and there's this fascinating side story on the hastings park slots and all that.

anyway, it's worth noting in a less bizarre aside that the long term feasibility here is a really big issue: montreal's hippodrome just closed and berkeley's golden gate is on its last season. that's fully 1/3 of all race tracks i've been to, and that's just in the last year.

[jlousa]

Report to council on Hastings Park master plan

Master plan report 83 pages 15mb
http://vancouver.ca/ctyclerk/cclerk/20091217/documents/penv2.pdf

Staff are recommending Option1 over Option 2, which means playland will remain in it's current location as opposed to moving into Empire stadium. It will still expand ~40% in size and they are planing to increase attendance from ~300k/yr to ~500k/yr. They are also recommending a new building be built to provide additional flat space for the fair and outside fair uses, along with daylighting renfrew creek, new barns, updating the live stock building. They expect attendance during the fair to increase to 1M from 800K now, they state that the fair could not really handle more than that number anyways. The horsetrack is required to provide a 500 stall parkade by 2013, it also appears the city intends to build additional parking in order to green inside the park. The hastings community centre is planned to move from it's current location to the SE corner of Hastings and Renfrew, a much more prominent location. The plan is expected to take ~20yrs once enacted. Sure there will be lots of comments, please take the time to read the acutual report though I'm sure most questions would be answered. Enjoy

[Metro-One]

:previous: Thank you for posting that.

Just quickly glazed over it since I don't really have the time now to read it all.

Of course my primary concerns are with the expansion and "Greening" of Playland.

I hope this expansion includes the construction of some new "larger" rides. Such a a new large roller coaster or other such ride attractions one would find at a 6 flags, not just family fair rides one finds at the mall parking lots once a year in their town. Although adding a couple rides for kids along with a couple larger ride attractions would be a good idea.

Also, what will happen to the log ride? Hopefully, since it appears it has to be taken down for their greenbelt, a better log ride will be built somewhere else in the expansion.

Last, I hope "greening" the park does not simply mean tearing out all of the pavement and simply replacing the ground with grass, for that will become very mucky in a climate such as ours.

Instead, it would be nice for "greening" to mean that there will still be paved walkways from ride to ride, and paved areas to line up, but throughout the park will be gardens lining the walkways, with trees and shrubs in them. (possibly matching to the theme of the rides nearby, such as planting more exotic species near the pirate ship) hopefully a few more open paced spaces remain for all of the foot traffic.

Just my two cents, I do hope they keep Playland somewhat within the feelings of a "theme park" and let the PNE areas become more of the "fairground" setting.

[MistyMountainHop]

If Playland is kept in its current location, they should make the new Empire Stadium permanent instead of temporary.

[Distill3d]

If Playland is kept in its current location, they should make the new Empire Stadium permanent instead of temporary.

Agreed.

Its too bad that all the highway connectors, rail yards, and port are all in the way. It would be awesome to see Playland and the PNE connect better with New Brighton Park.

[jlousa]

There will be an overhead connector linking the PNE with New Brighton Park. City costs of all the proposed upgrades is ~$204Million.

[TwoFace]

There will be an overhead connector linking the PNE with New Brighton Park. City costs of all the proposed upgrades is ~$204Million.

How realistic is this in real life. As we know the City is running in the RED big time, slashing programs, jobs, and trying to eliminate long standing landmarks.

Then there are the known post Olympic questions and market dependant gambles that need to over-achieve just to come close to a brake even budget.
I’m thinking these are LONG.. LONG.. term plans

[hollywoodnorth]

How realistic is this in real life. As we know the City is running in the RED big time, slashing programs, jobs, and trying to eliminate long standing landmarks.

Then there are the known post Olympic questions and market dependant gambles that need to over-achieve just to come close to a brake even budget.
I’m thinking these are LONG.. LONG.. term plans

as said above >>

The plan is expected to take ~20yrs once enacted

[TwoFace]

as said above >>

The plan is expected to take ~20yrs once enacted

ahh, missed that

[mr.x]

I'd like to think that the open house questionnaire had something to do with this, I gave them a huge earful...must've been at least a thousand words in total:



New plan for Hastings Park would see PNE, Playland expansion


By Gerry Bellet, Vancouver Sun
December 18, 2009 5:03 PM

Vancouver council has adopted a master plan for the redevelopment of Hastings Park over the next 20 years calling for an expansion of both the PNE and Playland that could cost $204 million.

The plan calls for Playland to be pulled back from Hastings Street in order to create a park corridor between the Sanctuary area and Empire Fields.

Playland would be made bigger by 30 per cent at a cost of about $36.5 million, in an effort to transform it from a local attraction into a destination attraction.

The park would expand into the area north of present-day Playland.

The PNE, meanwhile, would get an $89-million overhaul, with renovations to existing buildings and the addition of buildings to bring in more year-round revenue.

About $40.6 million would be spent on rehabilitating the livestock barn, Agrodome, Forum, Rollerland and garden auditorium, with $48.5 million being spent to replace lost exhibition space and add a new amphitheatre for year-round use.

An estimated $46.4 million will be spent on open spaces, stream and greenway connections, improvements to the festival area and infrastructure, and removal of parking lots south of Miller.

About $32 million will be spent on new parking at the northwest corner of the property.

The rearrangement of parking could add between 25 to 35 acres of parkland to the site.

Richard Newirth, the acting managing director of cultural services for the city, said a more in-depth proposal will be presented to council sometime in mid-2010.

“They adopted a high-level plan; now staff will come back with the details,” he said.

But critics say the master plan ignores earlier commitments by city council to downsize development on the site in order to create more park space.

“The idea was to create a fair within a park, but this isn’t what this plan will do,” said Vancouver Hastings MLA Shane Simpson, who spoke against the proposal.

He said former councils had committed to adding another 45 acres of greenspace to Hastings Park, for a total of about 70 acres, but the new plan reduces that amount by about 40 per cent, with the overall green space being about 50 acres.

“It’s this reduction that concerns me and I know the neighbourhood is not happy with it. What they [the city] seem to be doing is just greening the PNE and Playland,” he said.

“There is a difference between ensuring the viability of the PNE and Playland and trying to maximize the return, which seems to be the priority of this plan. You also need to balance the needs of the community,” he said.

David Bornman, chair of the Westcoast Christian School, located across from the Pacific Coliseum, said the plan was a reversal of the 2004 proposal to create a park that held an annual fair.

“Instead of a fair hosted by a local park, they are going to add more indoor space so they can raise more revenue. So a local park is going to be used as a revenue stream,” said Bornman.

He was disappointed that a number of improvements to the park that local residents want, such as access from Hastings Park to New Brighton Park, don’t seem to be a priority.

“In 2004 we had a vision of Hastings Park being 70 per cent greened and having a portable fair in tents. This is really disheartening,” he said.
© Copyright (c) The Vancouver Sun

http://www.vancouversun.com/plan+Hastings+Park+would+Playland+expansion/2360215/story.html

[GeeCee]

Sounds great! Though I can understand a bit of the NIMBYism from the tiny Christian school which moved in around 2004 or so, the idea of the PNE being downscaled even further into a few friggin tents is pretty upsetting to me.

Glad to hear that things are finally being put into motion for an expansion.

[Zassk]

Now we just need a rapid transit link to the site.. how about a short 2km spur off the Millennium Line up along the shoulder of Hwy 1 to Hastings?

[red-paladin]

This is a great plan. A good balance between Playland, PNE and the needed park land / green space.

As for transit, bus frequency on hastings is actually good already, but I agree, the more rapid transit the better. Hopefully the WCE station may still happen on the north side of the PNE one day, and that would require even better bus frequency. Streetcar / LRT on hastings would be great eventually too!

[mr.x]

“In 2004 we had a vision of Hastings Park being 70 per cent greened and having a portable fair in tents. This is really disheartening,” he said.

Thankfully he didn't get his way. Tents?

[NetMapel]

Now we just need a rapid transit link to the site.. how about a short 2km spur off the Millennium Line up along the shoulder of Hwy 1 to Hastings?

Not a bad idea at all. I'm thinking of running a skytrain line along Hwy #1 north to PNE and southbound on Boundary Road until Telus' HQ (Kingsway & Boundary).

[WarrenC12]

Not a bad idea at all. I'm thinking of running a skytrain line along Hwy #1 north to PNE and southbound on Boundary Road until Telus' HQ (Kingsway & Boundary).

No more Skytrain spurs. Time for a streetcar from 29th Ave up Renfrew. Assuming it can handle the grades, that will pass by the M-Line Renfrew station as well, then up to the PNE/Coliseum/Hastings Racetrack. I'm sure some of those private facilities would be willing to share the cost. The track already has a free bus service from Renfrew station.

[Distill3d]

Now we just need a rapid transit link to the site.. how about a short 2km spur off the Millennium Line up along the shoulder of Hwy 1 to Hastings?

A seasonal street car line from Renfrew station to the PNE would suffice. Otherwise, the bus frequency to the area is fairly decent.

[jlousa]

Tonight was busy with openhouses, first up was the PNE's latest masterplan at the Central library. Pretty good in my opinion, I'll see if I can find the presentation boards and post them up here. Apparently they had a large turnout and had run out of comment sheets with well over an hour still to go.
It's funny as someone standing next to me asked one of the city staffers if there would be a new ferris wheel as he really liked them but he understands some people out there hate them. I just smirked when the staffer asked the gentleman if he was from ssp. The gentleman had no idea what the staffer was talking about, I thought it was classic.

[deasine]

Tonight was busy with openhouses, first up was the PNE's latest masterplan at the Central library. Pretty good in my opinion, I'll see if I can find the presentation boards and post them up here. Apparently they had a large turnout and had run out of comment sheets with well over an hour still to go.

Believe the boards are here:
http://vancouver.ca/pnepark/public.htm

[jlousa]

That would be them, good find.
Another item that the staffer mentioned that also stuck, was that the PNE will be expected to bring in significantly more revenue as time goes on.

[Spoolmak]

The PNE is too crowded at the size its at now. If it wants more revenue it has to expand. I know lots of people that dont like going to the PNE because its waaaaaaaay to crowded.

[mr.x]

Tonight was busy with openhouses, first up was the PNE's latest masterplan at the Central library. Pretty good in my opinion, I'll see if I can find the presentation boards and post them up here. Apparently they had a large turnout and had run out of comment sheets with well over an hour still to go.
It's funny as someone standing next to me asked one of the city staffers if there would be a new ferris wheel as he really liked them but he understands some people out there hate them. I just smirked when the staffer asked the gentleman if he was from ssp. The gentleman had no idea what the staffer was talking about, I thought it was classic.

Everything in this world is both loved and hated by someone, to build/prefer only a certain type of attraction while ignoring the interests of others is not only selfish but also says that this individual is extremely narrow minded.

The attractions within a city should cater to a spectrum of interests, not just one.

[mr.x]

The PNE is too crowded at the size its at now. If it wants more revenue it has to expand. I know lots of people that dont like going to the PNE because its waaaaaaaay to crowded.

I couldn't agree more...just took a looky look at the open house boards and the new green space at the park is just absolutely overkill.

[wrenegade]

I know lots of people that dont like going to the PNE because its waaaaaaaay to crowded.

Put me in with that crowd. I've been to the PNE once in my life, I think I was 10 or 12 or something, and hated it. Way too many people, I still remember it now. I've told myself I'll only ever go back once, when I bring my kids. Of course if things change with the park/PNE I could be tempted to change my mind.

[twoNeurons]

:previous:

So, you went on a crowded day. It was probably day before close or something.

In any case, you can't judge an event by the one day you spent there when you were 10 years old.

Better a crowded event than a wasteland with no people. At least it means it's popular.

[wrenegade]

Not saying it's a bad thing, it's just a lot of people, and not really for me that's all. The PNE isn't going to be all things to all people.

[cc85]

the update looks impressive. A strong improvement to the current design. Expanding the infusion of the natural environment with the hard-surface dominated theme park is appropriate for our changing society.

[Smooth]

I think landscaping around the rides will really improve the look and feel of Playland.

Interesting that Playland/PNE hope to see a big increase in attendance but plan to take over the parking lot on the north-east corner of the property.

[Zassk]

Interesting that racing will be consolidated at Hastings. I would have thought that the city would want the race track eliminated over the long term - even now in the "no longer chasing the PNE to Surrey" era. The race track really limits the ability to make substantial changes to the more than the PNE ever did.

[Smooth]

Hastings Park vote happens this week
VANCOUVER/CKNW(AM980)
Janet Brown
11/30/2010

Vancouver Council is set to vote this week on the Hastings Park Master Plan.

The plans calls for the addition of 150-thousand square feet of new buildings at the PNE and increasing the acreage of Playland by 70-per cent.

However, COPE Councillor David Cadman wants the vote delayed saying the community's opposed and it fails to meet the City's environmental goals, "We need to step back and say this facility is a signature piece here, we are wanting to be the greenest city. Is this the greenest plan? And I say it's not."

Cadman says the neighborhood has invested years in the planning process and want to see a 'real plan' for a fair within a park.
http://www.cknw.com/Channels/Reg/NewsLocal/Story.aspx?ID=1319179

[itinerant]

This seems to be a rather biased news report (not really an article). Why not also quote the increase in green space, and where the concentration of building space is located (infill between Agrodome and the Pacific Coliseum), or mention the high points of the master plan like the encircling cycle path, daylighting of Renfrew creek, etc? Playland was small to begin with, so 70% increase for year-round amusements isn't much.

Is Mr. Cadman really being as dismissive as he seems to disregard the years of public consultation and development by city staffers that have struck [what seems to me to be] a very good compromise between paved amenities vs. greening the whole thing? It seemed to me the public who participated in the consultation (including the residents in the surrounding neighbourhood) provided good feedback that was incorporated into the ultimate plan as proposed to council for ratification.

See for yourself at http://vancouver.ca/pnepark/public.htm

The best slide from the presentation is at: http://vancouver.ca/pnepark/pdf/june2010/dayatparkD.pdf

The following before/after shows the proposed change at a high-level. Images modified from PDF boards from above links at Vancouver.ca.

Before / After:
http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/1953/hastingparkbefore.jpg http://img502.imageshack.us/img502/1742/hastingparkafter.jpg

[SpongeG]

looks good

I saw some protesters on the news the other day about the park, they didn't seem to happy, but the plan looks much better than what is there now

In my experience of visiting the green spaces and "park" areas in summer, fall, spring whenever I find it empty other than some people drinking in the bushes or passed out somewhere - no locals enjoying the park with their families as the protesters would want people to believe - there is plenty of green space now and areas to enjoy the park, the italian garden is cool and always again empty, the skateboard park area seems to attract people

the protesters - I just don't get their point, do they want it greener so it looks nicer from their houses? it doesn't seem like they want it to use it

[huenthar]

I wish they had went with option B, putting Empire Fields on the inside of the racecourse (with an underground passage connecting with the parking lot to the west), moving Playland to the east to take over the fields site, (so the wooden roller coaster would be at the western edge), and opening up a huge greenspace in the middle, east of the sanctuary. After all, how useful is Empire Fields where it is currently, once all the parking is gone and put in the NW corner? How do sports players get themselves/their gear over there?

I guess it's still possible to do that in the distant future sometime?

[jlousa]

I usually summarize these reports for the forumers but I just haven't had the time recently. Here is the actual report going before council on Thrusday.

http://vancouver.ca/ctyclerk/councilmeetings/documents/penv6.pdf

And here is the actual plan being considered. It's probably not ideal for any group but it's a very solid proposal that is vastly superior to the current situation and I believe it's the right plan for the city and for the region. I recommend most of you d/l it as it's huge and go over it in detail. hopefully those that feel strongly about it can go to council and speak on it. Enjoy

http://vancouver.ca/ctyclerk/councilmeetings/documents/penv6appendixA.pdf

[amor de cosmos]

the only thing that's missing is a streetcar ;)

[wrenegade]

I skimmed through it, looks pretty neat, but jesus, $310 million dollars? Hopefully the project can be phased a bit to spread the cost (not to mention the construction schedule)? Also, the funding options information seems a little thin. Cool concept though for the park, I love the daylighted stream. 20 years from now this plus Skytrain down Hastings would be wicked awesome.

[Zassk]

Yeah, I read the plan thinking the whole time, "RAIL LINK!"

[Smooth]

the only thing that's missing is a streetcar ;)

And maybe a decent Ferris Wheel, right jlousa?

[city-dweller]

Here my thoughts by reference to the sections in the document:

3.2.2 Relocate and expand playland
-Great! Most of day is spent lining up and not actually riding.

3.2.3 Connect to Burrard Inlet
-Connecting the parks to the water = awesome

3.2.4 +3.2.5
-having better East West connection would be great. Also, "...while better defing crosswalks and gateways..." Are they going to put crossing light at all the Renfrew crossings? If they are, and they plan to put all the parking on the northe side, it will take for ever to get up Renfrew to the parking lots.

3.2.7 Build in Flexibility
-mentioned also biking during "fair mode". I can' barely walk right now. It would be amazing if we could ride.

New Hastings Community Center location will be interesting given the slope on the property there. I think its a good location. Maybe add a stop there for the SFU express bus.

For bike connections, I wasn't sure about plans for the Dundas Connector or the Long-term Overpass over McGill alignments. Any thoughts?

4.2 "New buildings within Hastings Park will be LEED Gold." Isn't it city policy anyway?

5.1 $310.4m is not that high considering the scope of the plan and what they are trying to do.

Anyway, thats going to be a great park if they do it all!

[city-dweller]

Almost forgot to post this:

Renfrew intersection is depicted in the Master Plan concept drawings as a surface lot. However, this location is also well suited by its sloping
topography to accommodate a parking structure; up to three floors of parking could be achieved below an upper floor that would be at-grade with the elevation of Renfrew Street. The option of building a parking structure at this location provides significant flexibility for the future. With increased transit, shuttle, and, possibly, ferry and train access during the Fair.

Ferry!!!

[amor de cosmos]

seabus terminal! :hyper:

[Zassk]

I found the word "train" more exciting than the word "ferry" in that sentence. :)

[dleung]

Hopefully that's a hastings LRT, and not a westcoast express stop, rofl...

[mr.x]

I have huge doubts about these "improvements," and I absolutely abhor Cadman's views that this isn't "green" enough...making it any "greener" would ultimately be a huge barrier to the operations of the 17-day Fair and Playland just as what the "greening" from 1995 to today has done to the institution. I have doubts that this will improve the actual Fair, rather it might limit its space even more - what it can do within the park, considering any major programming might not be able to happen due to the millions of dollars spent on greening that could get damaged. It limits flexibility.

And last I heard, the City has passed the multi-million dollar annual greening maintenance bill to the PNE - meaning less money goes towards Playland and Fair programming. The economics of this also needs to be considered: is this green space going to be used???

Also, it's going to take how long to do all of this??? 20 YEARS?!!! Unbelievable. Really, a $208-million cost isn't that much with that timeline. By then, other things will start falling apart and will need replacing and there's going to be a MILLION MORE PEOPLE living in the region which would certainly warrant a MUCH BIGGER fair and MUCH BIGGER Playland (it already warrants one today!). A more decent time line would be 5-10 years...a snail pace of 20-years is just atrocious.

Ideally, Playland would not only expand north to where the horse stables and parking is today but also to what has been termed "Festival Meadow"...so Playland will reach right to the edge of pond/sanctuary. Even more ideal would be to have the whole area West of the pond/sanctuary (including Italian Gardens and the Garden's Gardens) be also part of Playland with rides (or maybe even a small zoo for a select animals, as part of the closure of the Abbottsford facility). A much larger Playland than what's already proposed would certainly be a hard sell to the local community as they're already moaning about the current 20-year plan or even how Suzanne Anton thinks it's already too big or Cadman thinking it's not green enough.....but is there not anyone in this city that doesn't have the whole smug green agenda shoved up their ass?

Really, focus on ONE use: either make it a really great park or a really great amusement park and fair (and if it's the former, relocate Playland and the Fair to an area where it can truly expand and flourish). Trying to do both in such a SMALL space will ultimately make both the park and Playland/Fair mediocre.

[SpongeG]

gawd knows without the pne how could we buy snuggies or oxyclean

what a waste of time the pne is IMO

hawkers selling TV crap, sad looking animals and overpriced rides and food

[SpikePhanta]

The only saving grace for playland is the wooden rollercoaster, which apparently is one of the best in the world.

I would hate to see it go to Surrey, hmm maybe we can put it the marine dr/way area of burnaby

[amor de cosmos]

The marathon council hearing into the proposed new Master Plan for Hastings Park, which will continue for at least another night, was sent back in time Tuesday night by the first-person testimony of Mary Kitigawa, who was interned in the Hastings Park livestock barns as a seven-year-old in the spring of 1942.

Kitigawa, her mother and four siblings were living with their father on their “immaculately clean” Saltspring Island farm when Canada began the infamous internment of Japanese Canadians in the wake of Pearl Harbour.

Her father was arrested by RCMP officers and taken away in the back of a pick-up truck “like a common criminal,” she told council, while the rest of the family, with children ranging in age from one and a half to 13 years, were taken with their mother to Hastings Park. Her mother was allowed two suitcases, each child only one.

At Hastings Park they were kept in horse stalls for a month, suffocating in the stench of urine and feces from the countless animals that had proceeded them. Mattresses were simply bags stuffed with straw. Their latrines were rough boards rigged over a ditch without screening. There was no privacy.

“We were fed in the poultry section at rough tables with tin plates,” Kitigawa recalled, “and our hair, skin and clothes were soon permeated with the stench of urine and feces. We were surrounded by barbed wire and guarded by RCMP.”

Boys over the age of 12 were later separated from women and girls and held in a nearby building with all other men, whether or not they had relatives or siblings in the group. Even her grandparents were separated.

“Even today I cannot go near the barns, the memory of having to live there is still too painful . . . I lived there for a month.”

Kitigawa was speaking in support of Judy Hanazawa, who spoke of the Japanese community’s conviction that much more must be done in the renewed Hastings Park to keep alive the memory of what must have been the park’s darkest hours.
http://www.geoffmeggs.ca/2010/12/08/japanese-canadian-detainee-tells-council-of-hastings-parks-darkest-hours/

[twoNeurons]

It's too bad the Coaster probably can't be moved inexpensively to Surrey (Metro Vancouver).

Disneyland is not in LA, it's in Orange County.

If Playland moved to a large area in Surrey, say by Scott Road, it could become a GREAT amusement park. Its attendance would likely RISE, not decrease.

Create a great park in Surrey instead of preserving a mediocre one in Vancouver proper.

[allan_kuan]

I think you'll have to tell that to an interested private company, as PNE (including Playland) is owned by the City of Vancouver and they'll probably want to retain that asset.

I recently asked them via email about both the entrance issue and about the lack of a proper fair-time bus loop. The reply is that they'll iron out the details later... and they're thinking of doing a wayfinding and signage program at the park (also to be decided later).

The Hastings Park/PNE Master Plan is recommending to improve the bus loop outside the Pacific Coliseum (details to be determined later in the planning process) to service the Fair and other year round events. At that time, we will definitely be looking into issues like raised platforms.

The reason the Master Plan proposes to move the main entrance to Playland to the centre of the park is to retain/convert the edges of Hastings Park as park use. It's a balance between park use and commercial uses on the site. The Master Plan will retain the entrance to Playland off of Hastings Street (entry node as shown in the diagram below), although as you have noted the main gate to Playland will be within the park. Next year, one of the Master Plan's first implementation items will be a signage plan - this will address identification of all the Park's uses (including Playland), wayfinding, and traffic flow.


In a way this project sounds similar to the park in Seattle containing Key Arena and the Space Needle, except with a really large amusement park attached.

[whatnext]

Ms. Kitigawa has a point. There's the Japanese-Canadian National Museum in Burnaby, but its not really a memorial. And yet we have, what, 4 Air India memorials now across the country?

Something in time for the 70th anniversary of the internment in 2012 would be fitting.

It would be interesting to know where Playland/The PNE's customers largely come from. Maybe a move south of the Fraser would make sense.

[Smooth]

The vote was last night, wasn't it? Anyone know what happened?

[GeeCee]

The vote is on Dec 14, there was a public consultation meeting a few days ago though..

[GeeCee]

It's tonight!

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/british-columbia/story/2010/12/14/bc-hastings-park-plan.html

[Metro-One]

:previous: It better pass.

What a one sided article. Not everything in this city needs to be a "green pasture park."

Can they not see that the park serves a far better purpose in its entertainment and cultural values to the residents of BC in remaining an amusement park / civic centre / etc...

When I was a teenager going to Playland was an annual summer highlight fro my friends and I (and countless others I knew at school).

This guy wants to take that away from our youth / families?

Think about how great fright nights has become! (which I go to every year) in regards to entertainment now.

We need to cling on to all the variety we have!

Also, if Playland is expanding does that mean more rides? And if so I truly hope they build a new roller coaster.

[SpongeG]

it did pass just reported on global news

[SpongeG]

Big changes coming to PNE and Playland

VANCOUVER/CKNW AM 980
Janet Brown | Email news tips to Janet
12/14/2010

After lenghty debate, Vancouver council has passed the Hastings Park Master plan.

It will see significant changes to the PNE and Playland.

This is a 20 year plan and it is calling for the addition of 150 thousand square feet of new buildings at the PNE, and increasing Playland's acreage by roughly 60 percent.

That means more rides.

The plan also triples green space in the park.

Cope councillors Ellen Woodsworth and David Cadman voted against the plan along with the NPA's Suzanne Anton.

They all say the northeast sector of the city doesn't have enough green space as it is, and the plan also fails to meet the cities environmental goals.

...

http://www.cknw.com/Channels/Reg/NewsLocal/Story.aspx?ID=1327429

[GeeCee]

Awesome news!

[wrenegade]

This is all fine and good, but where does the money come from to start paying for this?

Tolls on the bike lanes?

[allan_kuan]

I'm beginning to feel a bit annoyed. Green space? The dissenting councillors want more green space? Why not just bulldoze the entire park..., plant grass all around, and cause everyone to riot afterward due to the lack of entertainment. Sheesh.

[SpongeG]

it will be greener but they are fixated on the buildings being added for the PNE which are going to go in crappy non park areas anyway of the plans are close

[allan_kuan]

Sigh. I guess that's why very little gets done here in Vancouver... because people keep looking at the freaking minor details without considering the big picture. This is probably a sentiment that has been mentioned already but I'm only beginning to realize how much of a fuss it creates.

[hollywoodnorth]

great stuff!

[SpikePhanta]

Sigh. I guess that's why very little gets done here in Vancouver... because people keep looking at the freaking minor details without considering the big picture. This is probably a sentiment that has been mentioned already but I'm only beginning to realize how much of a fuss it creates.

Wasn't Vancouver known in the past for looking at the bigger picture?
Many people praised Vancouver on its civic planning and zoning, but it seems like now its a mess..... :(

[SpongeG]

the residents want the thing turned into stanley park - they want it all gone - but its not like they moved into the area not knowing the PNE and all that was there its been there for decades

[SpikePhanta]

the residents want the thing turned into stanley park - they want it all gone - but its not like they moved into the area not knowing the PNE and all that was there its been there for decades

Like the people complaining about the trains and the tracks, :hell:

[golog]

does anyone know if they still have to fill that manmade lake with tap-water (was a mini-scandal when parks board was filling it up during drought warnings and water restrictions)

the plan looks fine to me, but add one more vote to the "where is the money supposed to come from" pile

[mr.x]

Thank god it went through....although I do have suspicions that some of the councillors who voted against it were secretly for the proposal, but since there would be enough votes to have it go through they wanted to make a fuss over it just for the sake of getting future votes from certain special interests.

There's tons of green space in the area, I really don't see the need to have even more money draining green space that goes unused anywhere in the city.

[Vancity]

I don't understand Vancouver's obsession on being 'greener'. goodness sakes. why don't they just demolish all buildings, and just plant trees everywhere. we can live in mud huts, and under trees. yay.

[city-dweller]

Vancouver's "greenism" isn't really the problem. Its the NIMBYism. Right now green and sustainability is really vogue in politics. So, its more about complaining about something that will get attention.

[Vancity]

Vancouver's "greenism" isn't really the problem. Its the NIMBYism. Right now green and sustainability is really vogue in politics. So, its more about complaining about something that will get attention.

Definitely that. I don't understand how the city is so fearful of these people who seem to always complain about 'progress'. anyone heard of a redevelopment on Granville and 57th ave?

[jhausner]

What I don't get is that the PNE has been there for how long? A lot of people complaining against the plan in the radio and in the news were stating "You don't know how loud it can be to live beside teh PNE grounds!"

Well. Firstly, the PNE has been on those grounds for 100 years.

Secondly the Pacific Coliseum was built in 1968 and hosted the Canucks for many years.

Then you have Playland which had rides as early as 1960 and has been in fairly full force since I was a kid so 20+ years.

Then you have the Agrodome which was built in 1963 and Empire Stadium in 1954.

Finally, you have the heart of the area, the racecourse which openned as East Park in 1889 so before any human being living around Hastings Park were born. Hell probably before most of their grandparents were born.

This is what I wish the news and or councillors would actually speak up about. People can complain about 'noise' when things 'move in' to their neighborhood. But the people around Hastings Park purchased into their homes knowing the facilities were there. It would be like moving next to YVR then complaining about planes being too loud or complaining when the airports needs to expand.

DON'T BUY NEXT TO THE AIRPORT THEN! Don't move up Cypress Mountain if you don't want bears coming into your back yard. Don't move beside the shooting range in Port Coquitlam if periodic gun noise annoys you. Don't move to southern Florida if you hate Hurricanes! Same thing here. Don't buy next to Hastings Park if you are annoyed with traffic, cars, people, and noise. Move to Chilliwack.

I'm glad it went through. *applaud* That part of Vancouver doesn't need more greenspace.

[SpikePhanta]

^ And the people who move to Chilliwack complain about the fog and every 3 years it floods, demand money from the govermen....

[mr.x]

What I don't get is that the PNE has been there for how long? A lot of people complaining against the plan in the radio and in the news were stating "You don't know how loud it can be to live beside teh PNE grounds!"

Well. Firstly, the PNE has been on those grounds for 100 years.

Secondly the Pacific Coliseum was built in 1968 and hosted the Canucks for many years.

Then you have Playland which had rides as early as 1960 and has been in fairly full force since I was a kid so 20+ years.

Then you have the Agrodome which was built in 1963 and Empire Stadium in 1954.

Finally, you have the heart of the area, the racecourse which openned as East Park in 1889 so before any human being living around Hastings Park were born. Hell probably before most of their grandparents were born.

This is what I wish the news and or councillors would actually speak up about. People can complain about 'noise' when things 'move in' to their neighborhood. But the people around Hastings Park purchased into their homes knowing the facilities were there. It would be like moving next to YVR then complaining about planes being too loud or complaining when the airports needs to expand.

DON'T BUY NEXT TO THE AIRPORT THEN! Don't move up Cypress Mountain if you don't want bears coming into your back yard. Don't move beside the shooting range in Port Coquitlam if periodic gun noise annoys you. Don't move to southern Florida if you hate Hurricanes! Same thing here. Don't buy next to Hastings Park if you are annoyed with traffic, cars, people, and noise. Move to Chilliwack.

I'm glad it went through. *applaud* That part of Vancouver doesn't need more greenspace.

If only we had more of this being aired....


But one thing I'm concerned about: how likely is it that the approved masterplan will be changed sometime over the next few years? Afterall, this isn't the first masterplan that has been approved by the City for the PNE.

Not to mention that the timeline to get all the improvements done is 20 years. That's a lot of time for environmentalist nuts and fringe activists to do their tweaking by putting one toe in at a time.

The pond/sanctuary and Italian Gardens have almost already destroyed the PNE as is.





I'm really getting irked by Jeff Lee's one-sided reporting.

[SpongeG]

i like those things - the PNE does fine as is

do we really need more space to sell a slap n chop?

[BCPhil]

The improved lawns around the sanctuary will make good PNE space. That combine with some actually properly built solid surfaces (Festival and Miller Plazas, and The Parade) vastly increases the space available to the PNE.

This year I've been to a few events at Holland Park in Surrey, and it's been a great host. The park is a nice, open green-space most of the year, but when needed turns into amazing event space. The lawn holds up amazingly well to foot traffic and the permanent infrastructure is perfectly incorporated into the event.

The same will be true for the improved land around the Sanctuary. Most of the year it will be great lawns, perfect for sitting around, enjoying a picnic, or playing frizbee (like the land around Trout Lake). And during the PNE, when typically grass gets pretty brown, it will make great event space. The plans call for proper plumbing and electrical hookups incorporated into the lawn space so setting up for events will be fast.

As well, the paved areas are being improved. The main strip through the park will be wider (and permanent) and host stalls during the PNE, and potentially anytime. The proposed Festival plaza sounds fantastic and will be miraculous during the Fair with how it integrates with the livestock building. Playland will be larger, and the concessions will be double sided, so Playland can sell food to people inside AND outside Playland (like to spectators at the Amphitheater).

To me, it sounds like the Fair will be better than ever!

Outside the PNE time, the area can host cultural events or festivals, much like Holland Park. There are enough groups out there that want to do things, but space is in short supply and expensive. Currently you have to close down streets and hold block parties, but that comes with decreased parking and accessibility. NEFC is soon to become condos, and that event space will be gone. Proper community event space is severely lacking in Vancouver, and this space will be great for the PNE, but even better for the community at large.

With the improved public square, amphitheater, Coliseum, flat building, racetrack/casino, and larger grounds, Hastings Park can see events all summer long. Open with a spring festival, and almost every week could see something happening at the park, be it a concert, festival, cultural event, or some kind of party or trade show. The Coliseum, Playland, and Racetrack can see improved business by people attending events, and events could see increased attendance via people going to the Coliseum, Playland and the Racetrack.

It will be possible to spend an entire day at Hastings Park (much like you can spend an entire day at Stanley Park). You can walk around the Sanctuary and down to Burrard Inlet, attend cultural events, see a musical/stage performance, see horse racing, ride some rides, all in one day.


I would really like to see the parking structure built. It would increase capacity and save space. The park is a long way away for a lot of people, and mustering up a family of small children can be challenging on Transit, so parking is important. A parking structure makes people feel there will be parking, reducing risk, making it easier to decide to go. The parking is in a great position for the racetrack, Coliseum, and PNE. And the new NW entrance to Playland nicely connects it to the Coliseum, Racetrack and Parking.

The only real shame to this whole plan is the 20 year time frame. This is something that should be fast tracked as the benefits would be greatly felt by the people of the city AND the metro. I know the money is a sticking point, but Hastings park is regionally enjoyed, and as such they should seek provincial and federal funding. The upgrades to the 100 year old PNE alone should qualify it for some major federal grants.

[jlousa]

The PNE plan is pretty good, the only changes I would make...
1) Mandate the parkade being built next to the Coliseum/Racetrack, the infield parking plan is not a solution. The Parkade was promised as part of the slot introduction, enforce it, even if that means some additional civic money. The money from parking will be returned several times over, during the life of the structure.
2) Build a couple of nice restaurants in the park, perhaps near the Santucary. The restaurants in QE and Stanley Park provide some additional funds and help bring people into the park. Heck how about a new home for the beloved Cannery.
3) Move the damn petting zoo into the PNE, they already have to pay to bring one in during the fair, it wouldn't cost a huge amount more to keep it there year round, plus it would give families a reason to visit the park year round. It's a better location for families that more and more live in the burbs, they having to go all the way to Stanley Park. It would hopefully even generate funds instead of bleed them.

[SpongeG]

they could add a wedding venue like they did at Queen E park even though its up in the parking lot its very nice and a popular spot for weddings

[Metro-One]

The PNE plan is pretty good, the only changes I would make...
1) Mandate the parkade being built next to the Coliseum/Racetrack, the infield parking plan is not a solution. The Parkade was promised as part of the slot introduction, enforce it, even if that means some additional civic money. The money from parking will be returned several times over, during the life of the structure.
2) Build a couple of nice restaurants in the park, perhaps near the Santucary. The restaurants in QE and Stanley Park provide some additional funds and help bring people into the park. Heck how about a new home for the beloved Cannery.
3) Move the damn petting zoo into the PNE, they already have to pay to bring one in during the fair, it wouldn't cost a huge amount more to keep it there year round, plus it would give families a reason to visit the park year round. It's a better location for families that more and more live in the burbs, they having to go all the way to Stanley Park. It would hopefully even generate funds instead of bleed them.

This is one of the few times where I completely agree with you :tup:

All three points are good points.

I also wish it were a 5 year time line, not 20. How many 20 year programs are never finished?

Also i agree that this is more than just a Vancouver venue, it is a regional venue, and it should get provincial funding as well.

[djh]

The PNE plan is pretty good, the only changes I would make...
1) Mandate the parkade being built next to the Coliseum/Racetrack, the infield parking plan is not a solution. The Parkade was promised as part of the slot introduction, enforce it, even if that means some additional civic money. The money from parking will be returned several times over, during the life of the structure.
2) Build a couple of nice restaurants in the park, perhaps near the Santucary. The restaurants in QE and Stanley Park provide some additional funds and help bring people into the park. Heck how about a new home for the beloved Cannery.
3) Move the damn petting zoo into the PNE, they already have to pay to bring one in during the fair, it wouldn't cost a huge amount more to keep it there year round, plus it would give families a reason to visit the park year round. It's a better location for families that more and more live in the burbs, they having to go all the way to Stanley Park. It would hopefully even generate funds instead of bleed them.

I really like your 3rd idea. So true, the petting zoo would be a big success there all-year round. When I take my kids to the PNE that's the only thing they're interested in (too young for the Playland rides, and the rest of the PNE is just...'wha?!')

The idea for some good restaurants too is great. Maybe at the border of the park and the racecourse, to serve both markets. I've never walked down to the racecourse area because I've not had anything drawing me down there, but if I knew there was a great place to eat, it would be enough to take the wife if we were in the area.

[BCPhil]

I really like your 3rd idea. So true, the petting zoo would be a big success there all-year round. When I take my kids to the PNE that's the only thing they're interested in (too young for the Playland rides, and the rest of the PNE is just...'wha?!')

The idea for some good restaurants too is great. Maybe at the border of the park and the racecourse, to serve both markets. I've never walked down to the racecourse area because I've not had anything drawing me down there, but if I knew there was a great place to eat, it would be enough to take the wife if we were in the area.

Aren't there like 5 restaurants in the racecourse plus concession? The size and caliber can be increased, but inside the casino building seems like a logical place to have restaurants. Close to, but outside the fair grounds, and next to the foot traffic generated by the Coliseum and beside the parking lots seems like a safer bet than away from parking in the middle of the Sanctuary, which is cordoned off during the fair.

[Fairbanks]

Here is the link to a list of amusement parks across Canada. Click each province and discover details about the many superior parks across Canada.
Vancouver, Canada'a third largest metro area, is long overdue for a major theme park attraction. checkk out these links and you will agree we are way behind.

http://www.themeparkcity.com/CAN_index.htm

[Fairbanks]

Here is the link to a list of amusement parks across Canada. Click each province and discover details about the many superior parks across Canada.
Vancouver, Canada'a third largest metro area, is long overdue for a major theme park attraction. checkk out these links and you will agree we are way behind.

http://www.themeparkcity.com/CAN_index.htm

Not all the links work but the major ones do. However, the names of all the parks listed there so you can look them up separately as I did.

[jlousa]

So the PNE is proposing it's newest ride, the Star Flyer it's 218ft tall to which should excite some of you.

Notification letter
http://vancouver.ca/commsvcs/developmentservices/devapps/pc2901ehastings/documents/notificationltr.PDF

Operational Letter
http://vancouver.ca/commsvcs/developmentservices/devapps/pc2901ehastings/documents/operationalltr.pdf

Elevation
http://vancouver.ca/commsvcs/developmentservices/devapps/pc2901ehastings/documents/elevation.pdf

Sightlines
http://vancouver.ca/commsvcs/developmentservices/devapps/pc2901ehastings/documents/sightlines.pdf

Guess we'll have to wait on that super ferris wheel before we're world class.;)

[Prometheus]

So the PNE is proposing it's newest ride, the Star Flyer it's 218ft tall to which should excite some of you.

Are you sure it will be allowed? At that height, it might interfere with a viewcone!

[nova9]

it kinda looks like a minnaret. hahah. stirring the pot, waiting for reactionary trolls in our society (not here).

[jsbertram]

it kinda looks like a minnaret. hahah. stirring the pot, waiting for reactionary trolls in our society (not here).

Perhaps they want another publicity blitz similar to when the Hellevator was introduced - and the bible-thumpers went ballistic for several weeks.

It just confirmed the old saying 'there's no such thing as bad publicity'

[SpongeG]

it looks the same height as the hellevator - boring

[wrenegade]

It just confirmed the old saying 'there's no such thing as bad publicity'

Tell that to Millennium Water and Bob Rennie. Ha!

[LotusLand]

Looks like the Star Flyer is now confirmed. According to a press release Vancity Buzz received.
http://www.vancitybuzz.com/2011/02/star-flyer-the-new-pne-ride/

I still feel the PNE needs to do more to get me back to the park

[EastVanMark]

Are you sure it will be allowed? At that height, it might interfere with a viewcone!

Exactly! Will someone please think of the children! But perhaps they won them over by painting it sea-foam green and adding a bike lane to the ride.

[Jebby]

Exactly! Will someone please think of the children! But perhaps they won them over by painting it sea-foam green and adding a bike lane to the ride.

All they need to do is make sure it was designed by James Cheng and the city will approve it.

[Spoolmak]

Let's hope this ride turns it's lights off early too. Think of the birds and all the unnecessary light pollution

[agrant]

Looks like the Star Flyer is now confirmed. According to a press release Vancity Buzz received.
http://www.vancitybuzz.com/2011/02/star-flyer-the-new-pne-ride/

I still feel the PNE needs to do more to get me back to the parkIt doesn't compare to Disney Land, that's for sure.