[eternallyme]

I'm looking at a chart of all the potential new area codes. The chart is here - http://www.cnac.ca/npa_codes/relief/NPA_Selection_Tool_2009-08-07.xls

2 more are coming next year (343 over 613 and 579 over 450), and one more in early 2011 (presumably 249 over 705) and 236 and 825 are reserved, but I see a few glaring obvious future ones:

431 - Already suggested as an overlay for 204 in Manitoba.

437 - Definitely the best choice for Toronto's third area code alongside 416 and 647, as it is the only code not a prefix anywhere in the GTA, which is important as the entire 416/647 area has local calling to 289/905.

460 - Probably the best choice for the third area code in 226/519 as it is only in use in 905 among its neighbours. (It has also been mentioned as the optimal choice for an 807 overlay, but that is sooooooo far off that it would be pointless to wait for that to be needed unless Northwestern Ontario really starts growing)

873 - Already suggested as best for an 819 overlay.

942 - It would be the best choice for an overlay (or partial overlay of Nova Scotia?) of 902, as the options are very limited there (only three) and there are no 942 prefixes anywhere in Atlantic Canada.

Some that I would think are best despite the lack of perfect options:

263 - Best IMO for Montreal's third code alongside 438/514, due to lack of other places to use it.

354 - Although a long way off, mentioned as best for the third code in 705(/249?).

365 and 742 - Best for the next two codes in 289/905. Two more will be needed before 2035 for sure.

468 - Although a long way off, mentioned as best for the third code in 343/613.

474 - Best IMO for a 709 (Newfoundland and Labrador) overlay, due to the few places where that is suitable.

487 - Best IMO for the third code in 450/579, due to the lack of other places to use it.

568 - Best IMO for a 506 (New Brunswick) overlay.

753 - Best IMO for the third code in 418/581 (although 431 and 942 are optimal, both have more immediate needs).

879 - Best IMO for a 306 (Saskatchewan) overlay.

Others I see no immediate use but are reserved for Canada, perhaps a long time necessity: 257, 273, 367, 368, 382, 387, 428, 537, 548, 584, 639, 672, 683, 851 and 871.

[vid]

The 807 area code is forecast to be exhausted in 2165! :)

474 is the only one of those codes is used as a prefix here. 343 is the only existing area code used here. (Useless trivia.)

[Spoolmak]

236 is reserved for BC, but I have a phone that when you type in the number with area code, it gives you the state/prov. 236 is Virginia.

[Wooster]

When I think of 'area codes' this song always pops into mind:

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/MtCM4shOYYM&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/MtCM4shOYYM&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

[mylesmalley]

My prediction: This will somehow become the most entertaining thread ever on SPP.

[Only The Lonely..]

Ahh, who cares..

In 20 years time when we're all wearing leather dusters and living inside the Matrix you'll be saying "Hey! Remember phones.."

[RTA]

^ [Neo Dials] "Tank! I need an exit! Fast!"
[Tone] "We're sorry, your call could not be completed as dialed. Please check the number you are dialing..."

[Vaillant]

for the great Montreal area is 514, 438, 450 and 579 will be on in august 2010

[eternallyme]

for the great Montreal area is 514, 438, 450 and 579 will be on in august 2010

Yep, and I don't think any more will be needed until after 2035. However, should growth accelerate, 263 (for 438/514) and 487 (for 450/579) would be best for the next ones in Greater Montreal.

[eternallyme]

873 is now recommended as the next code for 819. Next contribution will be on 289/905, but I think that 365 and 742 are best for the next two codes there (at the same time, 437 should be reserved for the third code in 416/647 which will be necessary around 2020). If an overlay of the entire GTA is recommended, then 437 would have to be the next code for all of 289/416/647/905 (the only one that works), and after that reclaiming numbers would be necessary to free up additional area codes.

[eternallyme]

New area codes to be introduced in 2010 to meet growing demand
(CP) – 1 hour ago

http://www.google.com/hostednews/canadianpress/article/ALeqM5gayuin8t5MbDEiFOSl0HGG1sFlHg

OTTAWA — Eastern Ontario and regions surrounding Montreal will get new area codes in 2010 to meet a growing demand for new phone numbers

Starting May 17, 2010, a new area code - 343 - will be introduced in the territory now served by the 613 code in eastern Ontario.

The 613 code now covers Ottawa, Kingston, Belleville, Brockville, Cornwall and Bancroft.

A new 579 area code will also be introduced in August 2010 in the territory now served by the 450 code surrounding Montreal.

The 450 code covers Laval and the North Shore, the South Shore, Lanaudiere, Monteregie, parts of Estrie and Laurentians, and the Richelieu Valley.

The new codes also respond to high demand for wireless services, the Internet and IP telephony among consumers and businesses.

Copyright © 2009 The Canadian Press. All rights reserved.

[Canadian Mind]

why are the codes so specific? What I mean is, why must 873 move into 819's area, why is 365 & 742 the best for 289 & 905, etc?

[eternallyme]

why are the codes so specific? What I mean is, why must 873 move into 819's area, why is 365 & 742 the best for 289 & 905, etc?

It has to do with several factors:

1) If that code is already assigned as a prefix in any of the codes in that area code region, it cannot be used for potential confusion and it would be technically difficult to call except in a last resort (that would be workable if you had to dial all 11 digits, including 1, for local calls, since 1 would act as a starting digit). That is why the home area code is never assigned as a prefix, for example, there are no 613-613-xxxx numbers.

2) If a code is not assigned in that region or in ANY of the neighbouring area codes (not many cases of such remain), it would be the ideal code as phone companies would not have to revise much equipment at all. Examples: 431 over 204, 437 over 416/647, 942 over 902.

3) If no such code exists, it would be best to find the code(s) that are assigned in as few neighbouring codes as possible to keep the required equipment upgrades to a minimum. With 10-digit dialing, it is not as big of an operational issue to keep it locked all around anymore, it just requires more lines to be switched.

[harls]

I think a NCR area code would be ideal. Sucks dialing long distance from Aylmer to Kanata (right across the river, for god's sakes).

Give Ottawa-Gatineau 613, and the rest of SE Ontario the new one (343).

[jeremy_haak]

Is it actually long distance? I thought that calls within the NCR were still local despite being separate area codes.

[Acajack]

Telephone companies are really fussy about expanding their local calling zones. When new and larger merged cities were created (like Ottawa and Gatineau), it was a big deal getting Bell to agree to extend local calling from one end of the city to the other.

I believe it was achieved in Gatineau two or three years ago (at least, the fee that we all have to bear for having it is on my phone bill) and I think it’s the case for Ottawa as well now.

As for calls to other municipalities (including between Gatineau and Ottawa), I believe there is a “central zone ” that enters into play. The central zone is somewhat wider than just the downtown core, and from it you can call for free pretty much anywhere in Ottawa-Gatineau and surrounding area. I think the idea is that this is where most employment and businesses are, and you don’t want people incurring long distance charges to call home from the office, or businesses based in the city to have long distance calls to and from customers.

The central zone in Ottawa includes all the downtown numbers of course, but also stuff like the 74-s into the east end and 72-s in the west end. Gatineau’s central zone covers all the Hull numbers plus all numbers west of Montée Paiement (56- and 24-) in the Gatineau sector.

It does make for some odd situations. For example, unless things have changed I can call from home near La Vérendrye in Gatineau which is in the central zone, to places like Embrun and Bourget which are more or less 60 km away. But people in Rockland and Orleans, who are much closer, have to pay long distance to call Bourget and Embrun.

I can also call to Kanata for free, whereas Harls can't although he is much closer.

[harls]

Yes, I bought my car in Kanata a year ago, and whenever I call there to arrange an oil change it is long distance (even though I can see Kanata from my house across the river)... yet I can call my friend on Labrosse Blvd. in the east end of Gatineau and it's a local call.

Orleans (east end of Ottawa) is also long distance for me (I've got a good buddy living there, too).

I need to centralize my entourage.

[tokie1]

What we should do in Canada is separate ourselves from the Americans and stop using the "1" as our country prefix. We shouldn't blindly follow the US way on everything and we certainly are not the same country so why should we share a country code and common area code system?

[RTA]

^ What would we gain by changing it at this stage of the game? Aside from a lot of confused people around the world who suddenly would have problems calling Canada, that is.

I'm sorry, I don't see the 1 + three digit area code thing as a sovereignty issue, and in fact I don't see it as any kind of issue at all.

[vid]

I suggested switching to 8 digit dialing before, and apparently it would require millions of dollars of investment to change all of the telephone equipment.

Thunder Bay's local calling area covers everything within about 45 kilometres of the city. There are maybe 5,000 people within a two hour drive of the city who can't make local calls into town, if that.

[srperrycgy]

http://www.newswire.ca/en/releases/archive/October2009/06/c4192.html

OTTAWA-GATINEAU, Oct. 6 /CNW Telbec/ - The Canadian Radio-television and Telecommunications Commission (CRTC) today announced that effective March 12, 2011, 10-digit local dialing will be required for all local calls in the 705 area code region of northern Ontario. The CRTC also announced that a new area code, 249, would be introduced in this region.

Today's decision will provide sufficient time for telephone companies to prepare and to effectively inform their customers of these changes.

The transition to 10-digit dialing will begin on January 15, 2011, and will be gradually introduced over the following weeks. It will become mandatory by March 12, 2011.

To prevent the exhaustion of telephone numbers in the 705 area code region, new telephone numbers assigned as of March 19, 2011, may be given area code 249. This means that customers seeking new telephone numbers could be given a number starting with area code 249. Existing customers will keep their current area code and phone numbers.

These measures are being implemented in response to the Canadian Numbering Administrator (CNA) report to the CRTC in March of this year. In its report, the CNA warned that area code 705 is expected to run out of telephone numbers by October 2012.


Telecom Decision CRTC 2009-622
http://www.crtc.gc.ca/eng/archive/2009/2009-622.htm

[MTLskyline]

What we should do in Canada is separate ourselves from the Americans and stop using the "1" as our country prefix. We shouldn't blindly follow the US way on everything and we certainly are not the same country so why should we share a country code and common area code system?

That's pretty trivial, don't you have better things to do than worry about sharing a country code of all things with Americans?

[Dado]

:previous:

Ya, I'd be more worried about sharing things like their bizarre paper sizes (8.5x11", 8.5x14") and their illogical date formats (mm-dd-yy[yy] rather than dd-mm-yy[yy] or yyyy-mm-dd). At least the telephone area code system has been reasonably well thought-out.

[vid]

No it hasn't. If it was "reasonable well thought out" it would seem more logical. They just threw area codes at cities (#1# code to cities, largest to smallest at the time, and #0# codes to rural areas and entire states/provinces) and then add more in a virtually ad-hoc manner once they existing ones are full. :shrug: The only good thing about them is they're all the same length. They aren't even separated from local extensions by a different middle digit anymore.

[tokie1]

:previous:

Ya, I'd be more worried about sharing things like their bizarre paper sizes (8.5x11", 8.5x14") and their illogical date formats (mm-dd-yy[yy] rather than dd-mm-yy[yy] or yyyy-mm-dd). At least the telephone area code system has been reasonably well thought-out.

Looks like I forgot the /s tag on my post but nobody realized?

FYI, the paper sizes are a convention so why would we change them now? It works good so leave it alone. Should we start measuring CFL downs in meters now instead of yards? Similarly, you write October 8th, 2009 and to short form it Oct8/09, or 10/08/09 so how does that not make logical sense? Do Euros write "8 October 09" or something?

[francely57]

Similarly, you write October 8th, 2009 and to short form it Oct8/09, or 10/08/09 so how does that not make logical sense? Do Euros write "8 October 09" or something?

I've seen that some times in English.


In French we do write "8 octobre 2009", which makes more sense (day X of month Y of year Z) like Dado said.
Same order in other languages, not sure which ones.



P.S.: I thought CFL was in meters (still called yards)

[vid]

In Canada, dates should be written like 8 October 2009 (or 8th [(day) of] October 2009). That is how they're usually written in laws, legal documents and so on. They go from smallest unit to highest. In the international system (SI), dates are standardized like 2009-10-08. Only in the United States is dates like October 8, 2009 the standard. When you really look at it, it looks like it is saying it is the eighth October in a series of Octobers.

For organizing things I write dates like 20091008, so that it sorts by year, month then day in that order. You can add time to it, too: 200910081320 (using 24 hour time so that you don't have to add am or pm).

[Acajack]

Do Euros write "8 October 09" or something?

Yes, they do. As do almost all English-speaking countries of the world, and all the countries that speak other languages. The U.S. and Canada (to some degree) are the exceptions.

Quebec generally uses day-month-year or year-month-day, but month-day-year does occasionally show up on some stuff when technological devices (cash registers, etc.) that are imported from the States.

It gets very confusing when logically 05/06/09 is assumed to be June 5, when it's actually May 6 they mean.

Canada outside Quebec appears to be all over the map, with some places using the international standard (the best in my opinion) YYYY/MM/DD, but other places using the American MDY and others the British-influenced DMY.

DMY seems less common the further west you go in Canada.

[jeremy_haak]

I always use DD/MM/YYYY, or occasionally YYYY-MM-DD (particularly for filing purposes).

[harls]

Code relief for area code 819 in Quebec

In this decision, the Commission determines that relief for area code 819 is to be provided by overlaying the area served by area code 819 with new area code 873, starting on 19 March 2011.

On 28 April 2009, the Canadian Numbering Administrator (CNA) informed the Commission that the results of a general numbering resource utilization forecast indicated that area code 819 in Quebec would exhaust by February 2015.

http://www.crtc.gc.ca/eng/archive/2010/2010-94.htm

[manny_santos]

I'm not a big fan of overlays for area codes, although they've been used throughout Canada and the United States. Where I am, in 519, I would much have preferred seeing K-W/Guelph/Stratford/Owen Sound keep 519, and London-Sarnia-Windsor get a new area code. There is something to be said for everyone in a region having the same area code - I always find it confusing, having to clarify if someone has 226 or 519. I had to make a business call a few months ago and when the person I was going to be calling was giving me the number (in person) she didn't know if it was 226 or 519.

It is likely too late to change area code systems in Canada and the United States, but some countries including Mexico have a good solution to the problem of exhausted area codes in urban areas. The area codes from 550 to 559 (for country code +52) are all reserved for use in Mexico City, and generally the area code is simply referred to as 55, with the third digit being nominally part of the local number (e.g. 55 5555 5555 instead of 555 555 5555). Years ago that could have been a good solution for Toronto, Montreal or New York, but it would be too costly and disruptive to implement that today. Would have been simpler to have the GTA with a 41 area code instead of 416/905/647/etc. though, even if it only spanned 41-5 through 41-9.

[MTLskyline]

819 is pretty much the area code for everywhere in Quebec outside Greater Montreal and Quebec City.

They ought to split the 819 region in two. Outaouais/Abitibi/Western Quebec takes 819. 873 goes to the Eastern Townships and the Mauricie.

[francely57]

819 is pretty much the area code for everywhere in Quebec outside Greater Montreal and Quebec City.

They ought to split the 819 region in two. Outaouais/Abitibi/Western Quebec takes 819. 873 goes to the Eastern Townships and the Mauricie.

Actually 819 is for western QC outside Greater Montreal.

Eastern QC (including Quebec City) is 418.

[eternallyme]

I'm not a big fan of overlays for area codes, although they've been used throughout Canada and the United States. Where I am, in 519, I would much have preferred seeing K-W/Guelph/Stratford/Owen Sound keep 519, and London-Sarnia-Windsor get a new area code. There is something to be said for everyone in a region having the same area code - I always find it confusing, having to clarify if someone has 226 or 519. I had to make a business call a few months ago and when the person I was going to be calling was giving me the number (in person) she didn't know if it was 226 or 519.

It is likely too late to change area code systems in Canada and the United States, but some countries including Mexico have a good solution to the problem of exhausted area codes in urban areas. The area codes from 550 to 559 (for country code +52) are all reserved for use in Mexico City, and generally the area code is simply referred to as 55, with the third digit being nominally part of the local number (e.g. 55 5555 5555 instead of 555 555 5555). Years ago that could have been a good solution for Toronto, Montreal or New York, but it would be too costly and disruptive to implement that today. Would have been simpler to have the GTA with a 41 area code instead of 416/905/647/etc. though, even if it only spanned 41-5 through 41-9.

That was somewhat considered back in 1947, but was later rejected in favour of area/pulse-based calls. For example, 212 was for New York City, 213 for Los Angeles and 312 for Chicago since they used the fewest pulses on a rotary dial, quickest to dial considering they were commonly called. The most rural areas got the highest number of pulses - I think 902 for Atlantic Canada (before being split later), 803 for South Carolina, 704 for North Carolina and 605 for South Dakota. If they kept large zones, then almost every number in North America would have to be changed.

Splits are rare these days as they are very expensive for phone companies to change switches on every line, not to mention disruptive for customers who have to change numbers. I would think by 2020, well over half of all area code zones in North America will be multi-code overlays. In Canada by 2020, most likely the only single-code zones left will be 867, 807, 506 and 709. I am sure by then it will be 10-digit dialing Canada-wide since more than 95% of the population would be forced to do it anyway.

[vid]

Have I mentioned that 807 is predicted to be exhausted by 2165? We have to prepare, people!

[eternallyme]

Have I mentioned that 807 is predicted to be exhausted by 2165? We have to prepare, people!

Well, you're not going to exhaust for a looooong time even if growth accelerates rapidly in northwestern Ontario (only 867 in the territories - around 2200 - has an exhaust date anywhere near yours), but they would still likely force 10-digit dialing on you eventually as almost everyone else would have it and a national plan would make more sense then. 506 and 709 stand to exhaust around 2035.

Personally, I would require 10-digit dialing within 306 and 807 at the same time as relief in 204, probably around 2014 (so everyone from Quebec to BC requires it), and in 506, 709 and 867 at the same time as relief in 902, probably around 2016 (making it national then).

[vid]

I think by then technology will have changed how phone switch boards work. We might not have area codes at all in 2020.

[jmt18325]

204 will require relief in less than a year.

[The Jabroni]

204 will require relief in less than a year.

September we'll see 431 on our call displays. I'm calling it right now. (pun intended :P)

[Andy6]

Have I mentioned that 807 is predicted to be exhausted by 2165? We have to prepare, people!

I remember when you only needed to dial 5 numbers in the Sault. Now thanks to the city's rocketing growth, it's up to 10!

[eternallyme]

I remember when you only needed to dial 5 numbers in the Sault. Now thanks to the city's rocketing growth, it's up to 10!

They have more to do with the growth in mobile phones, Internet, ATM's, security systems and other telecom systems that require separate phone numbers.

[vid]

I remember when you only needed to dial 5 numbers in the Sault. Now thanks to the city's rocketing growth, it's up to 10!

It's thanks to Barrie's rocketing growth. Same area code. 705 should have been split in half years ago. Kashechewan and Barrie have the same area code, but they're at least 1000kms apart.

[Spocket]

I never realized how lucky we were in Canada where phones are concerned.
Every number here is 11 digits . There are "area codes" I guess but there must be 10 here in my city alone.
Anyway , I thought Manitoba was supposed to get a second area code. Anybody know about this ? I can't seem to find anything on the internet other than confirmation that Manitoba needs a second one.

[vid]

International phone numbers look scary.

"What is your phone number?"
"525487623549855"
"Can you repeat that?"

[manny_santos]

International phone numbers look scary.

"What is your phone number?"
"525487623549855"
"Can you repeat that?"

Well, in reality, if you're in the local calling area of that number you're not dialing a lot of numbers. If you're in Mexico City for example dialing a local number, you're dialing 8 digits, but here to dial to that location you need to add 0115255 before the local number.

[vid]

011525557483957 is scary.

[eternallyme]

It's thanks to Barrie's rocketing growth. Same area code. 705 should have been split in half years ago. Kashechewan and Barrie have the same area code, but they're at least 1000kms apart.

Even if Simcoe County were not part of 705, it would surely require a new area code by 2020 though. Also for comparison, a north-south split through North Bay (with 249 in northern Ontario) would last until about 2035 in the northern part.

[vid]

Which is weird, when you consider that Northwestern Ontario is growing so much faster than the Northeast. We're actually the only part of the region that is growing, and growing enough to cancel out the losses on their side.

[eternallyme]

Which is weird, when you consider that Northwestern Ontario is growing so much faster than the Northeast. We're actually the only part of the region that is growing, and growing enough to cancel out the losses on their side.

It's because there is only one decent-sized city (i.e. >25,000) in the Northwest, as opposed to four in the Northeast of Ontario. Also Northwestern Ontario has only five communities larger than 5,000 (Thunder Bay, Kenora, Dryden, Fort Frances and Sioux Lookout), and Northeastern Ontario has about 15.

Of course, things could change rapidly if growth seriously picks up in the Northwest somehow - they even have an area code reserved in that case for an 807 overlay (460). I would think you'll be dialing 10 digits long before then though.

[eternallyme]

CRTC to add third area code to Ontario’s rapidly growing 905 region (http://www.crtc.gc.ca/eng/com100/2010/r100413.htm)

OTTAWA-GATINEAU, April 13, 2010 —The Canadian Radio-television and Telecommunications Commission (CRTC) today announced a new area code to manage the telephone number shortage that will affect the region currently covered by area codes 289 and 905. This is the first time that a third area code has been added to a region in Canada.

Starting March 25, 2013, new telephone numbers assigned in the region may be given the area code 365. Existing customers will keep their current area code and phone numbers.

These measures are being implemented in response to the Canadian Numbering Administrator’s warning that the region is expected to run out of telephone numbers by March 2014.

Telecom Decision CRTC 2010-213

The CRTC
The CRTC is an independent public authority that regulates and supervises broadcasting and telecommunications in Canada.

[eternallyme]

The next new code to be approved should be 431 in Manitoba (204 overlay, currently planning a May 2012 implentation).

Also looking deep in the CRTC site (http://www.crtc.gc.ca/public/cisc/cn/CNCO043A.doc) (MS Word document), it seems some area codes have been reserved/seriously suggested for future relief (236 in British Columbia and 825 in Alberta were already locked up):

428: Second code for New Brunswick. (Estimated date it will be needed: 2025)

437: Third code in the 416/647 area. (Given that 437 would exhaust in 2024 according to latest estimates, a fourth code should be reserved - probably 257 or 584.)

460: Second code in the 807 area. (Although its exhaust date is about 75-150 years from now at current estimates, it is perfectly suited for there if sudden growth takes place in the decades ahead as it is not in use in 807 OR either of its neighbours)

474: Second code for Saskatchewan. (Estimated date it will be needed: 2015)

548: Third code in the 519/226 area. (Estimated date it will be needed: 2020)

742: Fourth code in the 905/289(/365) area reserved in the same decision, as 365 has a 2024 exhaust date.

879: Second code for Newfoundland and Labrador. (Estimated date it will be needed: 2030)

942: Second code for Nova Scotia/PEI. (Estimated date it will be needed: 2015)

[kw5150]

When I think of 'area codes' this song always pops into mind:

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/MtCM4shOYYM&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/MtCM4shOYYM&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

ha ha