[Surrealplaces]

St Patrick's Island bridge comp: Which one do you like? Please choose your top '5' designs.

The images will be uploaded, but it's going to take a bit of time. I've started the poll, because some people already have their chosen five.

Here is the link to the CMLC page. Because the polling feature only allows 25 choices, some of the entries were not added, mainly the terrible ones. River Crossing group did not have their link up at the time so they were missed.

http://www.calgarymlc.ca/rivers_projects/st._patrick's_bridge/conceptual_design_competition_-_st._patrick's_bridge/



Rosales + Partners
Link to proposal document (http://www.calgarymlc.ca/_uploads/56d3d444-f900-102c-b43c-5b433d695674/Rosales%20and%20Partners%20-%20Schlaich%20Bergermann%20and%20Partner%20Joint%20Venture%20Et%20Al,%201.pdf)
Full Size here (http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2561/3945643854_0fcab20d19_o.jpg)
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2561/3945643854_a1a0895d12.jpg


Halcrow Yolles (The Reach)
Link to proposal document (http://www.calgarymlc.ca/_uploads/56d3d444-f900-102c-b43c-5b433d695674/Halcrow%20Yolles%20-%20The%20Reach,%2017.pdf)
Larger image here (http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2487/3946383836_d3fbc60661_o.jpg)
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2487/3946383836_432dc2ab6b.jpg

Halcrow Yolles (Eddie & Flow)
Link to proposal document (http://www.calgarymlc.ca/_uploads/56d3d444-f900-102c-b43c-5b433d695674/Halcrow%20Yolles%20-%20Eddy%20and%20Flow,%2018.pdf)
Larger image here (http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2592/3945339697_57380a18e9_o.jpg)
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2592/3945339697_644ff79c13.jpg


Manu Chugh
Link to proposal document (http://www.calgarymlc.ca/_uploads/56d3d444-f900-102c-b43c-5b433d695674/Manu%20Chugh%20Architect%20Limited%20Et%20Al,%204.pdf)
Full Size here (http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2658/3944861077_76b02c1159_o.jpg)
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2658/3944861077_e7d8a539e4.jpg


Busby Perkins + Will
Link to proposal document (http://www.calgarymlc.ca/_uploads/56d3d444-f900-102c-b43c-5b433d695674/Busby%20Perkins%20and%20Will,%2011.pdf)
Larger image here (http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2551/3944861501_53b6fd3c49_o.jpg)
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2551/3944861501_d9fd76b8d4.jpg


Buckland Taylor
Link to proposal document (http://www.calgarymlc.ca/_uploads/56d3d444-f900-102c-b43c-5b433d695674/Buckland%20and%20Taylor,%20Ltd,%207.pdf)
Larger image here (http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2479/3945644244_321da72144_o.jpg)
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2479/3945644244_8b3305f614.jpg

Saucier + Perotte
Link to proposal document (http://www.calgarymlc.ca/_uploads/56d3d444-f900-102c-b43c-5b433d695674/Saucier%20and%20Perrotte%20Architects,%2030.pdf)
Larger image here (http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2537/3946206838_d7747018af_o.jpg)
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2537/3946206838_c945b3701e.jpg

Delcan + DTAH
Link to proposal document (http://www.calgarymlc.ca/_uploads/56d3d444-f900-102c-b43c-5b433d695674/Delcan%20and%20DTAH,%2019.pdf)
Large image here (http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3512/3945349833_4e7c42363a_o.jpg)
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3512/3945349833_9f8599060d.jpg


Marc Boutin
Link to proposal document (http://www.calgarymlc.ca/_uploads/56d3d444-f900-102c-b43c-5b433d695674/The%20Marc%20Boutin%20Architectural%20Collaborative%20Et%20Al,%2012.pdf)
Larger image here (http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2491/3944861617_5907bcb2ca_o.jpg)
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2491/3944861617_645b93647d.jpg


Sturgess Architecture
Link to proposal document (http://www.calgarymlc.ca/_uploads/56d3d444-f900-102c-b43c-5b433d695674/Sturgess%20Architecture%20Et%20Al,%2021.pdf)
Larger image here (http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2463/3945366535_2e135a5750_o.jpg)
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2463/3945366535_5bce975b67.jpg


Infinity Engineering
Link to proposal document (http://www.calgarymlc.ca/_uploads/56d3d444-f900-102c-b43c-5b433d695674/Infinity%20Engineering%20Group,%2028.pdf)
Larger image here (http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2656/3946192118_fabda906a6_o.jpg)
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2656/3946192118_c2601fd388.jpg

Arup & Kasian
Link to proposal document (http://www.calgarymlc.ca/_uploads/56d3d444-f900-102c-b43c-5b433d695674/Arup%20Kasian,%2025.pdf)
Larger image here (http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2568/3945395719_ee5d095ec4_o.jpg)
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2568/3945395719_d99d26b9d0.jpg

Arup & Falko Schmitt
Link to proposal document (http://www.calgarymlc.ca/_uploads/56d3d444-f900-102c-b43c-5b433d695674/Arup%20with%20Falko%20Schmitt%20Architects,%2015.pdf)
Larger image here (http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3518/3945644754_82fb1210f7_o.jpg)
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3518/3945644754_bacdd45bdb.jpg


Arup & Frederick
Link to proposal document (http://www.calgarymlc.ca/_uploads/56d3d444-f900-102c-b43c-5b433d695674/Arup%20and%20Federic%20Schwartz%20Architects,%2032.pdf)
Larger image here (http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3507/3946244390_5f2ac86167_o.jpg)
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3507/3946244390_3987fd06e1.jpg


SPF with Arup (O-Bar)
Link to proposal document (http://www.calgarymlc.ca/_uploads/56d3d444-f900-102c-b43c-5b433d695674/SPFa%20-%20Arup%20(O-Bar),%2031.pdf)
Larger image here (http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2527/3945431027_bbaf0a64fd_o.jpg)
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2527/3945431027_eedc3bd768.jpg

SPF with Arup (Glide)
Link to proposal document (http://www.calgarymlc.ca/_uploads/56d3d444-f900-102c-b43c-5b433d695674/SPFa%20Arup%20(Glide),%2035.pdf)
Larger image here (http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3492/3946221832_e9149a951a_o.jpg)
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3492/3946221832_561e558c8c.jpg

Rogers Stirk Harbour
Link to proposal document (http://www.calgarymlc.ca/_uploads/56d3d444-f900-102c-b43c-5b433d695674/Rogers%20Stirk%20Harbour%20and%20Partners%20Et%20Al,%206.pdf)
Full size Here (http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3477/3945644180_4a923277aa_o.jpg)
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3477/3945644180_9f7cd8287d.jpg



DeJong Design Associates
Link to proposal document (http://www.calgarymlc.ca/_uploads/56d3d444-f900-102c-b43c-5b433d695674/DeJong%20Design%20Associates%20Ltd%20kta%20Structural%20Engineers,%2016.pdf)
Larger image here (http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3523/3945644812_e99c0c4feb_o.jpg)
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3523/3945644812_f9a4e857f4.jpg

IBI et al
Link to proposal document (http://www.calgarymlc.ca/_uploads/56d3d444-f900-102c-b43c-5b433d695674/IBI%20Group%20Et%20Al,%2020.pdf)
Larger image here (http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2546/3945360757_231d1181aa_o.jpg)
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2546/3945360757_284eeafaff.jpg

CH2MHILL (option 1)
Link to proposal document (http://www.calgarymlc.ca/_uploads/56d3d444-f900-102c-b43c-5b433d695674/CH2MHILL%20(Option%201),%2023.pdf)
Larger image here (http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2515/3945382425_ec5b8dee7e_o.jpg)
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2515/3945382425_cbb0c2b6f2.jpg

Team IBHL
Link to proposal doucument (http://www.calgarymlc.ca/_uploads/56d3d444-f900-102c-b43c-5b433d695674/Team%20IBHL,%2026.pdf)
Larger image here (http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2669/3946184366_48cb6a1063_o.jpg)
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2669/3946184366_849fb187d1.jpg


RFR / Halsall
Link to proposal document (http://www.calgarymlc.ca/_uploads/56d3d444-f900-102c-b43c-5b433d695674/RFR%20Halsall,%2029.pdf)
Larger image here (http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2457/3946231382_c2415c2e66_o.jpg)
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2457/3946231382_25fa3306c0.jpg

Endres Ware & Amman Whitney
Link to proposal document (http://www.calgarymlc.ca/_uploads/56d3d444-f900-102c-b43c-5b433d695674/Endres%20Ware%20and%20Ammann%20and%20Whitney,%2024.pdf)
Larger image here (http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3478/3946171844_dcab0b3c24_o.jpg)
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3478/3946171844_8e1115eb24.jpg




********* Not in the polling **************





The River Crossing group
Link to proposal document (http://calgarymlc.ca/_uploads/56d3d444-f900-102c-b43c-5b433d695674/The%20Rivers%20Crossing%20Team,%2027.pdf)
Larger image here (http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3491/3946395952_62eb8536f8_o.jpg)
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3491/3946395952_2d33ba11a2.jpg



Abes Wagner
Link to proposal document (http://www.calgarymlc.ca/_uploads/56d3d444-f900-102c-b43c-5b433d695674/Abes%20Wagner%20and%20Partner%20ZT-GMBH,%2034.pdf)
Large image here (http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2590/3946422656_3ee30c93e1_o.jpg)
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2590/3946422656_d1756fe644.jpg

[Wooster]

I guess it should be pointed out, that the poll allows multiple choices:

River's Crossing Team is unfortunately not in the poll: it's link was broken before, but now it's up.

I stuck it in my "good" category.

[Cabbage]

I voted for Arup & Kasian.

One thing missing from the majority of the proposals is that it doesn't show how the bridge will interact with the island, which I think is important.

[AUM]

I guess it should be pointed out, that the poll allows multiple choices:

dammit...i missed the fine print. any way to go back and re-vote...or is that it?

[CorporateWhore]

Maybe it's just the rendering, but the piping of the Kasian proposal feels a little wimpy to me. It kind of feels like they got it out of the playground swing parts bin...I wish it had some more contrast of thicknesses to help it flow more (like the other fly fishing one does).

[Wooster]

dammit...i missed the fine print. any way to go back and re-vote...or is that it?

Just start another account and vote again...

[CorporateWhore]

So anyone else a little surprised there aren't any real big international names on this list (besides that skankasaurus Arup)? I wonder if the short timeline and the whole money-issue was part of it.

And speaking of which, why didn't we get Gaged?

[Wooster]

^ I'm guessing it has something to do with the competition structure. If there was simply an Request for Qualifications put out, then a shortlisting based on that moving into conceptual design with a generous stipend, I'm sure more big names would have entered.

[Wooster]

nm

[Bigtime]

I'm really liking the Arup + Kasian one, thinking it is my leading choice followed closely by SPF Glide.

[Bigtime]

I'm also quite surprised by how many proposals treated the entry/exit point on the island as a secondary thought.

[You Need A Thneed]

Busby Perkins
Arup Kasian
River Crossing Team
Sturgess
H&Y - the Reach

Several others that I like too.

[You Need A Thneed]

I'm also quite surprised by how many proposals treated the entry/exit point on the island as a secondary thought.

This is something that is one of the most important elements of this bridge proposal, IMO. Leaving the inland access as an afterthought means the proposal doesn't work, at least for me.

[ByeByeBaby]

If we're moving the discussion here, I thought I should repost.

Wow, there's a lot of bridges there.

Not that I'm a regular or anything, but here's my three groupings and five word reviews (I haven't been reading most of the comments yet):

Dynamic - bridges that I wouldn't mind seeing built
Arup / Kasian - Extraneous curves distract from blandness.
Busby Perkins and Will - Calatravian, but nicely executed nonetheless.
Halcrow Yolles, The Reach - Neat concept: invisible cables worrying.
Infinity Engineering Team - Big nets: love/hate relationship.
Manu Chugh - Just the basics, with flair.
SPF:A/Arup (Glide) - Wonderfully understated, but not iconic.
Sturgess Architecture - McDonald's presents: two bridges humping.

Decent - bridges that would be missed opportunities, but not terrible
Bosen Lu - Actually pretty striking, grade: B+
Buckland and Taylor - New bridge genre: cable stayeadequate.
DeJong Design - Guess who really likes arcs?
Delcan and DTAH - Like curves, hate island access.
Endres Ware and Ammann & Whitney - Less terrible than it looks?
Halcrow Yolles, Eddy and Flow - World's fussiest flat concrete deck.
Marc Boutin - Free spire with every bridge!
RFR / Halsall - Yup, it's simple. Too simple.
Rosales and Partners - Look, Santiago! Two bent spires!
Rogers Stirk Harbour - Peace Bridge stole your thunder.
Saucier + Perotte - Hey, you dropped your pipe.
SPF:A/Arup (O-Bar) - A crapshoot, depends on materials.
The River's Crossing Team - Apostrophe is possessive - e.g "Calatrava's"

Disaster - hey, the competition's open to everyone
Abes Wagner - Wake me when it's over.
Arup with Falko Schmitt - Not bad, didn't rock me.
Arup and Federic Schwartz - Big pole compensates for something.
Associated Engineering 1 - Rollercoaster screams "Look at me!"
Associated Engineering 2 - Flat deck = more gimmick space.
Brett Lowe - Beware, giant triangle ahead.
CH2M Hill 1 - Bad photoshop hides bland bridge.
CH2M Hill 2 - A spike won't improve it.
Design Vision - Let's draw a crayon castle!
Erin Swift - How'd it get washed downstream?
IBI Group - Big arc: study in underwhelmingness.
Team IBHL - We've already got one, you see.
Zhiyi You - Sketchup tutorial seven: tinkertoy bridges.


Sorry, one was 6 words, but I didn't want to edit a Monty Python quote.

Key themes I noticed:
- Boy, does one white steel cable-stayed bridge look like another after a while.
- A few decent entries (O-Bar, Delcan) have terrible access for cyclists to St. Pat's. A 90 degree turn is hard on a bike, in narrow space, in a crowd, at low speed.
- The tubular ones aren't all that bad, but I'm not sure Calgary needs to become Tube Bridge City anytime soon. (If there were five being built, maybe. But with the mix of existing bridges, I'd like more variety.)

[Wooster]

Good analysis Byebyebaby - I couldn't agree more with you about white cable-stay bridges. This is why I'm glad Calatrava's peace bridge is something very different than that.

[You Need A Thneed]

Reposting my comments from the other thread:

Rosales: Looks pretty good - but a Calatrava ripoff

Design Vision: LOL

Manu Chugh: I like how the arches flow together, I like the asymmetry. Doesn't look like the entrance treatment has been addressed at this point, but plenty of time for that.

Zhiyi You: One image is tough to get a full impression, looks like a modern version of those steel arch bridges.

Rogers Stirk: Props for doing something at least somewhat different, but a little too "Old Railway Trestle Bridgey" for me. I also like bridges that are at least somewhat open to the sky.

Buckland & Taylor: Bridge looks good, similar to some Calatrava designs. Would be fairly striking.

Brett Lowe: Don't really know what he's trying to go for here. I don't really like it, but would like to hear his explanation.

Erin Swift: Location is different that what was asked for, a location that would cut the island in half. Bridge looks ok, but really nothing special. Bridge Towers wouldn't be tall enough to be striking.

Busby Perkins: One of my top 3, I think. I love the towers that don't continue through to the ground.

Marc Boutin: Nice and flowing, would look good. Perhaps not as striking as some others. Landmark tower seems tacked on. Would like to see more details.

Associated Engineering: Option 2 - too oriented on the Island Plaza. Not enough thought into the bridge. Option 1 - Could use a different colour. Glad that it not just a plain tower, but a little too fancy just for the sake of being fancy for my tastes.

Arup with Falko Schmitt: The budget is $25 million not $10 million. Too simple and plain. Why bother submitting this?

DeJong: Perhaps a little busy, but could be good with some tweaking. I like the twin arches.

Halcrow Yolles (the Reach): Looks Good, Does it work? Need a better rendering.

Halcrow Yolles (Eddy and Flow): I love the flowing nature of the bridge, the "twin bridge" look I like too. Both Halcrow and Yolles Bridges could be finalists, one of them probably will be.

Delcan: A little bit simple, but sometimes simple is good. I like how the bridge just flows into the ramp down to the island.

IBI Group: Calatrava's doen it before, ramp to island is too much of an afterthought (seems to be a common one of my complaints about these bridges)

Sturgess: Would be quite striking. I like the lane seperation. Would like to see more detail of the ramp down to the island, and how that integrates with the rest. Probably one of my favourites.

CH2M Hill: Option 2 - why did they even bother submitting this? There isn't anything about it. Option 1 - We've seen the Cable Stayed bridge many times before - this adds nothing to the architectural discussion.

Endress Ware: Looks pretty good, would like to see a better rendering. COuld have potential.

Arup Kasian: Certainly would be memorable. Suits my tastes, but the one "arch" doesn't seem like it does anything. Would like to see the deck details/treatment.

Team IBHL: We're already getting this bridge, we don't need another one. Ramp to island seems like an afterthought.

The river's crossing team: Looks pretty good, A suspension bridge design that I haven't really seen before. Probably one of my favourites.

Infinity Engineering: Good Lighting could make it look spectacular at night. If you take the bridge that doesn't stop in the middle, then change your mind, you have to walk back to one of the ends. Certainly looks good. Would "waste" quite a bit of space on the island.

RFR Halsall: A little bit too simple, I think. Ramp to island is an afterthought.

Saucier & Perotte: Would probably look cool from outside the bridge, but who wants to walk through a tunnel when the views from the bridge will be so nice? A total fail in my mind.

SPF:a (O-bar): Too enclosed in my mind, and too much of a wall. I'm glad something different was proposed, but I really don't think it works here.

Arup Fredric Schwartz: Meh, not really inventive at all. Design isn't new at all.

Bosen Lu: At least a little bit different then other cable stayed bridges we've seen. Would certainly be striking, and could look good with good lighting. I'm not sure how it integrates with the island. If it's on there, it's an afterthought.

Abes Wagner: A suspension bridge. Did you really think that this would win? Why bother submitting this? The ramp isn't an afterthought, but the whole bridge is totally uninspired.

SPF:a (Glide): An idea that certainly has potential. it's a bridge that is more than just a bridge. What would make of break the design is the little details. How do you make the stairs look "elegant" and yet modern? The design doesn't seem to have railings along the top bike path, bikes may not like a slippery bridge in the winter, where they could crash down so far. Needs refinement. Would like to see this design continue on so that it can receive that refinement. If this bridge would go ahead to be built, I'd like to see the stiars facing the island be able to be used as ampitheatre seating, or something like that. Lighting could also be key, it could look really neat with the right lighting at night.

[CorporateWhore]

I'm with you guys, there's a little too much Calatrava going on in a lot of these....however, I do think the Rosales and Partner's one is rather handsome. We can just lie and tell tourists that Santiago gave us a 2 for 1.

[Witty Nickname]

Come Surreal... Get with the pics already. :whip: ;)

[Wooster]

^ CMLC took down the links for a while - they're now relocated in a slightly more user friendly way:

http://www.calgarymlc.ca/rivers_projects/st._patrick's_bridge/conceptual_design_competition_-_st._patrick's_bridge/all_submissions/

[You Need A Thneed]

We can just lie and tell tourists that Santiago gave us a 2 for 1.

That we could, with that bridge, I think. The most Calatravian of the bunch, I think.

[Bigtime]

So are we going to have a "SSP Jihad" of their comments section once it opens up on the 26th?

[h0twired]

I personally like Halcrow Yolles' The Reach the best.

[King1629]

I like the Infinity design. Its unique and has signature quality. The direct path option allows a total bypass of the island, especially at night time.

[Bigtime]

The Infinity design had me thinking I had seen something like it before, and then it hit me. The Riverfront Pavillion in Spokane:

http://thumbs.imagekind.com/member/8e5cedcd-9b9e-4cbf-b622-287fe2ca53fb/uploadedartwork/450X450/d45052f9-228a-4667-9cbc-609e834da31f.jpg

At least that is how I would assume the netting would look in the Infinity proposal.

[CorporateWhore]

If that's the case, I think I'll pass.

[Witty Nickname]

I'm quite shocked that a "We got Gaged" design wasn't proposed.

[King1629]

I think the INFINITY netting with a triangular pattern, neat horizontal lines and the net eye looks quite different from the Spokane net. This could look very elegant with the right lighting at night...if they get it right. I don't think the cable net has ever been used on a bridge before. Certainly unique though!

[Bigtime]

I'm quite shocked that a "We got Gaged" design wasn't proposed.

Actually, did any of the crybaby architects from the articles about using Calatrava put their money where their mouth is and submit a design?

[You Need A Thneed]

One worry about the infinity engineering bridge is that it will be hard to get a picture of it with the skyline - at least for the average person. The bridge itself sort of blocks the view of what is behind it.

[Calgarian]

My favourites so far are Sturgess, DeJong and Infinity.

Though on the Infinity design they will have to make sure that no one can climb the netting, lots of potential liability on that one.

[Bigtime]

Though on the Infinity design they will have to make sure that no one can climb the netting, lots of potential liability on that one.

Ah that's easy to prevent, just electrify the netting! ZAP! :haha:

If they add lighting it could double as a giant fly zapper at night.

[King1629]

The Infinity design, I think has an unobstructed view of the skyline from the outer bridge. The cable net plane seems to be only on one side.

[You Need A Thneed]

Categorized Listing:

Cable Stayed Bridges:
Rosales
Design Vision
Buckland & Taylor
Erin Swift
Busby Perkins + Will
Associated Eng (opt 1)
DeJong
CH2M Hill (Opt 1)
Endress Ware
Arup and Fredric Swartz
Bosen Lu

Suspension Bridges:
The Rivers Crossing Team
Infinity Engineering Group
Abes Wagner


Arch Bridges:
Manu Chugh
Zhiyi You
Arup with Falko Schmidt
Halcrow Yolles (the Reach)
Delcan
IBI
Sturgess
Arup Kasian
RFR Halsall

"Standard" & Tube Bridges:
Rogers Stirk
Brett Lowe
Marc Boutin
Associated Eng (opt 2)
Halcrow & Yolles (Eddy and Flow)
CH2M Hill (opt 2)
IBHL
Saucier & Perotte
SPF:a (O-bar)
SPF:a (Glide)

[Calgarian]

Ah that's easy to prevent, just electrify the netting! ZAP! :haha:

If they add lighting it could double as a giant fly zapper at night.

lol, keep the mosquitos and those pesky teenagers away with one bridge!

[King1629]

Good point about climbing the netting. Though it depends upon the size of the mesh holes. Given the scale I'd say the triangular holes have 3 m sides approx.

[Hed Kandi]

Greetings Calgarians from Vancouver!!!

I have to hand it your local planners, they should be commended with their efforts to bring world class architecture to your city. The same cannot be said about Vancouver, which sports the same cookie cutter, prosaic, designs with its blue/green glass over and over and over and over.

Calgary has been taking the right initiatives in seeking out world renowned designers to bring only the most inspirational designs to your city. This can be seen in Norman Foster's "The Bow", Calatrava's "Peace Bridge", the competition for the new National Music Centre (attracing the likes of Jean Nouvel among others), and now the St. Patrick's Bridge development.

Perhaps the greatest thing about this competition, is that it's a competition. Unlike in Vancouver where the city allows developers to simply hand over a project to one of our paltry local firms who constantly produce designs of the most grotesque and mundane nature. Calgary has not only managed to secure a competition, but a competition with 35 PROPOSALS. That is truly incredible and unheard of. Even city's famous for attracting starchitects from around the globe for design competitions such as Dubai, Abu Dhabi, Chongqing, Shanghai, etc, have never had so many proposals for a single project.

This new wave of architecture monuments will surely (and has already started) to put Calgary on the world map as a center of contemporary architectural excellence.

After skimming through the 35 proposals for the St. Pat's bridge, here are my top picks for proposals in a randomized order. May the best of them win!

http://www.calgarymlc.ca/_uploads/56d3d444-f900-102c-b43c-5b433d695674/SPFa%20-%20Arup%20%28O-Bar%29,%2031.pdf

http://www.calgarymlc.ca/_uploads/56d3d444-f900-102c-b43c-5b433d695674/Saucier%20and%20Perrotte%20Architects,%2030.pdf

http://www.calgarymlc.ca/_uploads/56d3d444-f900-102c-b43c-5b433d695674/Arup%20Kasian,%2025.pdf

http://www.calgarymlc.ca/_uploads/56d3d444-f900-102c-b43c-5b433d695674/Halcrow%20Yolles%20-%20Eddy%20and%20Flow,%2018.pdf

http://www.calgarymlc.ca/_uploads/56d3d444-f900-102c-b43c-5b433d695674/Halcrow%20Yolles%20-%20The%20Reach,%2017.pdf

http://www.calgarymlc.ca/_uploads/56d3d444-f900-102c-b43c-5b433d695674/The%20Marc%20Boutin%20Architectural%20Collaborative%20Et%20Al,%2012.pdf

http://www.calgarymlc.ca/_uploads/56d3d444-f900-102c-b43c-5b433d695674/Manu%20Chugh%20Architect%20Limited%20Et%20Al,%204.pdf

[devonb]

Lots of good designs (and bad). One thing I get concerned about is the amount of glass you see in some bridge designs and the Peace bridge too. Who's going to keep it looking good? Much of the public art I see in the downtown is filthy.

[King1629]

Infinity has some interesting words for their designs.....

"Fire meets Water"

"A Form against the Norm"

[Calgarian]

Greetings Calgarians from Vancouver!!!

I have to hand it your local planners, they should be commended with their efforts to bring world class architecture to your city. The same cannot be said about Vancouver, which sports the same cookie cutter, prosaic, designs with its blue/green glass over and over and over and over.

Calgary has been taking the right initiatives in seeking out world renowned designers to bring only the most inspirational designs to your city. This can be seen in Norman Foster's "The Bow", Calatrava's "Peace Bridge", the competition for the new National Music Centre (attracing the likes of Jean Nouvel among others), and now the St. Patrick's Bridge development.

Perhaps the greatest thing about this competition, is that it's a competition. Unlike in Vancouver where the city allows developers to simply hand over a project to one of our paltry local firms who constantly produce designs of the most grotesque and mundane nature. Calgary has not only managed to secure a competition, but a competition with 35 PROPOSALS. That is truly incredible and unheard of. Even city's famous for attracting starchitects from around the globe for design competitions such as Dubai, Abu Dhabi, Chongqing, Shanghai, etc, have never had so many proposals for a single project.

This new wave of architecture monuments will surely (and has already started) to put Calgary on the world map as a center of contemporary architectural excellence.

After skimming through the 35 proposals for the St. Pat's bridge, here are my top picks for proposals in a randomized order. May the best of them win!

http://www.calgarymlc.ca/_uploads/56d3d444-f900-102c-b43c-5b433d695674/SPFa%20-%20Arup%20%28O-Bar%29,%2031.pdf

http://www.calgarymlc.ca/_uploads/56d3d444-f900-102c-b43c-5b433d695674/Saucier%20and%20Perrotte%20Architects,%2030.pdf

http://www.calgarymlc.ca/_uploads/56d3d444-f900-102c-b43c-5b433d695674/Arup%20Kasian,%2025.pdf

http://www.calgarymlc.ca/_uploads/56d3d444-f900-102c-b43c-5b433d695674/Halcrow%20Yolles%20-%20Eddy%20and%20Flow,%2018.pdf

http://www.calgarymlc.ca/_uploads/56d3d444-f900-102c-b43c-5b433d695674/Halcrow%20Yolles%20-%20The%20Reach,%2017.pdf

http://www.calgarymlc.ca/_uploads/56d3d444-f900-102c-b43c-5b433d695674/The%20Marc%20Boutin%20Architectural%20Collaborative%20Et%20Al,%2012.pdf

http://www.calgarymlc.ca/_uploads/56d3d444-f900-102c-b43c-5b433d695674/Manu%20Chugh%20Architect%20Limited%20Et%20Al,%204.pdf

35 proposals isn't really that big, most RFPs get a pretty broad response, especially in a recession.

I agree that the level of design has vastly improved in this city, but we still have a ways to go. :cheers:

[Ferreth]

I'm kinda disappointed with the design lot. I could only find 4 I like. The suspension bridges are either too crazy for my tastes or too "meh". Other than Rosales + Partners, which I thought was elegant, although the interface with the island is a bit clunky in my books.

The Delcan + DTAH looks interesting, better island interface.

The Manu Chugh has potential. I love the glass divider between pedestrians and cyclists. They need to ditch the stupid spiral ramp to the island though - along with every other proposal that has this - all traffic is going east on the island, so a nice ramp to the east seems the logical connection to the island for me.

SPF / Arup - Glide looks very interesting right now, and is my current favorite. I'm not sure it's practical, it does mention "split bike and pedestrian paths" (the top path and the curvy bottom path?) but I love the look and the gobs of stair space for people to sit and enjoy the view. The look of this bridge is unique and understated at the same time - a good fit for Calgary IMHO. Hoping to see details on this one for sure!

A couple that I would actively avoid crossing on:

Saucier + Perotte - looks WAY to enclosed on the ends for me. A loiterer's pee-fest / muggings etc. waiting to happen.

Infinity Engineering - I like the interface to the island, but the shore side is going to mean U-turns for cyclists at least once per crossing unless you are making the bridge your turn-around point on a recreational ride. That mass of netting is just too much - feels like a giant set of fishing nets to me. If they re-designed this with some suspension cables instead, I might like this one's looks at least.

[earthclaim]

Interesting, before seeing any of the results I figured I would favour a cable stayed or suspension type bridge and yet none of the proposals of that type would be my choice - my top five currently being in no particular order (since I haven't decided on an order yet) the two Halcrow Yolles', Marc Boutin's, and the two SPFa's. Arup/Kasian and Sturgess then are a close six and seven.

I do like the concepts in the Saucier and Perrotte design but a) am not sure of the practicality for the location and b) the tube shape is too much like the peace bridge. I think it would be great for a long +15 though where security around the dark ends would not be an issue.

[Surrealplaces]

The Halcrowe Yolles - Reach is probably my favorite. The Arup Kasian Glide also. The Arup glide is very nice, not something that would strike people immediately, but it's very simple and elegant.
Reach is something that would strike people immediately. Innovative also.

Some of the entries were a joke. I could fire up my 3d Studio Max and do better. I'm actually serious about that.

May the best bridge win!

[freeweed]

Some of the entries were a joke. I could fire up my 3d Studio Max and do better. I'm actually serious about that.

I could give a 10 year old a box of crayons and do better, for some of them. I'm actually VERY serious about that.

[You Need A Thneed]

If only I had a little bit more time, I should have come up with a concept. It wouldn't have ended up as polished as the professional firms, but I could have designed something that would work at least.

[Just Build It]

I like the Busby Perkins entry. Yeah, it's kind of cliche, with the arch and the cables, but IMO, that look would be the best when coming in on Memorial drive, and in front of the skyline.

[CorporateWhore]

From early voting, it looks like SP's favorite design is brought to us by the same firm we overwhelmingly favored for Cantos. Sounds like a good little studio they've got going there!

Speaking of Cantos....we find out about the winner tomorrow.

[LynnDen]

I'm new to this forum but this seems to be the only one discussing the competition. My picks....

Infinity Engineering's design is classy and elegant. Has landmark potential. The most symmetrical design that i've seen so far.
The french arches look interesting but too slender to be true.
The Delcan proposal seems fun but one of the arches obstructs the skyline view.

The Glide concept is like a massive concrete plateau, wastes too much material. I don't believe the flyline even works structurally.

[unibrain]

These are my picks in no particular order:
Halcrow Yolles (The Reach): Very intriguing.. elegant, and flows well. Straightforward design, would like to see interface with the island...

Busby Perkins + Will: This will give the bridge height we've been wanting... and very Calatravaesque. I like the fact that it has two paths to the island (good for when the crowds are leaving an event on the island). Another set of twins, but at least they're bold looking.

Infinity Engineering: Very bold looking... love the flow routes. Although sail element doesnt make it "feel" Like a bridge for some reason. I worry about ice/snow buildup in the winter and if the bridge would need to get closed, and would it be easy for stupid people to climb?

Arup & Kasian: If we're not getting the Half K, I wouldnt mind getting this bridge. It's also very artistic, and free flowing. Very organic looking, and I like the plaza element.

SPF with Arup (Glide): As much as I would like to see this bridge get a tonne of height, this one is simple, and it gets you across in a hurry. Not a whole lot of fuss for maintenance I suppose.. but the stairs will turn into a skateboarders paradise if anti-skateboarding methods arnt implemented into the steps.. (could ruin the look though)... and what's under the bridge? if anything, this is where the homeless will go for shelter. Could be fixed.. I like this one..

[sauril]

I love how infinity's rendering makes it look like you merge onto memorial going east.

[king chans]

I found it to be unqiuely creative and a tasteful structure. An elegant confluence of efficient bridge designing and aesthetic beauty.

[Wooster]

People should keep in mind that these concepts were developed with $0 budgets. They're sort of an early open audition to get into the shortlist, where they are compensated and will have the chance to further refine the concepts. Now that isn't an excuse for some of the absolutley atrocious concepts within these 35, but there are some that could go from merely good to truly great in the next round.

For instance, I think the SPF proposal is extremely interesting in concept. A few tweeks here and there could make it outstanding. I would make it slighly more slender, and vary the materiality. Perhaps give the stairway a wood finishing like the new wavedecks by West 8 in Toronto.


http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3449/3888242339_99f7b54c37.jpg

[Witty Nickname]

How does SPF with Arup (Glide) get 48% of the votes?

I think it's horrible, looks like a giant maxi pad. :yuck:
Plus those stairs would get ZERO use during the winter months, what's the point?

I rather Rosales + Partners, Sturgess and Infinity.

[King1629]

I completely agree with Regulator75. I don't understand how the Glide concept is on top. Looks like a highway for tanks in summer and a ski hill during winter....an island on top of an island.

[oldschoolcalgary]

well, I am actually very excited!

Some pretty nice proposals that have been submitted and a fair number of very nice proposals from calgarians as well! Its great to see Calgarians actually excited about this competition and architecture in general...

great for the profession, in spite of the wrong-headed memo issued by the AAA.

Not sure who is going to win, but it'll be fun to watch the events unfold!

[freeweed]

How does SPF with Arup (Glide) get 48% of the votes?

I think it's horrible, looks like a giant maxi pad. :yuck:
Plus those stairs would get ZERO use during the winter months, what's the point?

It's you and me, buddy, vs just about everyone else. :P

Personally, Glide looks exactly what I'd expect Rick McIver to want in a bridge. A bland, simple ribbon of concrete with zero aesthetic charm. A plain flat chunk of rock that is pretty much the cheapest possible way to build a bridge.

Quite frankly, driving around this evening I was struck by how much interchange overpasses in this city look like the SPF proposal.

I dunno, maybe the stairs really do it for some people and could salvage this thing, but they just don't wow me in the least - at best they remind me of the stairs we already have on the north side of the Prince's Island lagoon. It's certainly not the ugliest bridge ever - if we had $5 million to spend, I'd love to see something like that. It's just that it's a very boring bridge. For $25 million I want some pizazz. Something that will impress people.

But maybe my design tastes are shit. This may be like the paneling on Le Germain - it's nice and all but I just see 1970s station wagon and Ataris, but most forumers drool over the wood laminate. :shrug:

Props on having the Bow in their renderings, though.

[frinkprof]

Haven't had much time to form a good opinion. I agree with freeweed though. The "Glide" design doesn't really do it for me. I think it's altogether too wide. As a result of this, and the even wider portion including the steps, I think it also covers up a large portion of the island and the river instread of interacting with their natural beauty.

[oldschoolcalgary]

+1

I am not keen on SPF either; as an idea its interesting, but functionally, well its really a combination ramp/stair...or stramp. And a massive one at that...i don't know if it actually adds any thing to the island at all (but a massive collector of floating bottles and potato chip bags under the stairs)...

and, I hope this doesn't offend anyone, but doesn't it look like some firms just went to the sketchup 3d model site and downloaded "Bridge"?! :koko:

It's odd that some proposals have 10 images and others just 3?

I'd love to see the actual proposals, because I think there's a lot of gaps and that many of the proposals that seem 'incomplete' are actually very well resolved.

exciting times indeed.:tup:

[jeffwhit]

And speaking of which, why didn't we get Gaged?

Didn't we?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v454/jeffwhit/calgary-1.jpg


Seriously though... There are some good examples in there of why engineers should stay away from design. The most problamatic proposals were the ones that got hung up on how to deal with the island landing. There are some compelety inelegant solutions. All the Sundial and Serreria bridge ripoffs automatically lose. I can't wait to see what the Sun readership votes for.

[nick.flood]

How does SPF with Arup (Glide) get 48% of the votes?

I think it's horrible, looks like a giant maxi pad. :yuck:
Plus those stairs would get ZERO use during the winter months, what's the point?

I rather Rosales + Partners, Sturgess and Infinity.

I think the attraction to the SPF with Arup (Glide) proposal is that it achieves something none of the other designs do by blurring the divide between the bridge and the island. The bridge becomes a part of island and the bridge also serves as a gathering space along with the connecting two points. I like the basic conceptual ideas of the Glide but in reality it's a very wide massing and would feel cold and underutilized until inner city population reaches enough critical mass to make it a lively gathering spot. Add in winter and it'll just be a giant snow drift.

[Wentworth]

I think the attraction to the SPF with Arup (Glide) proposal is that it achieves something none of the other designs do by blurring the divide between the bridge and the island. The bridge becomes a part of island and the bridge also serves as a gathering space along with the connecting two points. I like the basic conceptual ideas of the Glide but in reality it's a very wide massing and would feel cold and underutilized until inner city population reaches enough critical mass to make it a lively gathering spot. Add in winter and it'll just be a giant snow drift.

To me, the main feature of the Glide bridge is the potential to become an iconic public gathering space. It might not look like much but, then again, the Spanish Steps are just a bunch of steps, too.

It's how it'll carry a snow load without collapsing that I wonder about, and also, exactly what is going to go on underneath that huge deck.

[Bokimon]

great designs.
I am impressed that Manu Chungh has a pretty solid submission. I was worried that this may be another one of his projects like Lusanne Montreaux and Grand Haras type of quality. But the bridge looks good.

Some of the designs from the engineering firms with absolute no knowledge of design are horrible.

Halcrow Yolles - The Reach is my favorite, a new style which is promising for a city up and coming like ours in the design mecca world.

Appreciate the comments from the Vancity dude! We are indeed fortunate for having these and waking up to our architecture standards.

[oldschoolcalgary]

I think the attraction to the SPF with Arup (Glide) proposal is that it achieves something none of the other designs do by blurring the divide between the bridge and the island. The bridge becomes a part of island and the bridge also serves as a gathering space along with the connecting two points. I like the basic conceptual ideas of the Glide but in reality it's a very wide massing and would feel cold and underutilized until inner city population reaches enough critical mass to make it a lively gathering spot. Add in winter and it'll just be a giant snow drift.

conceptually interesting, but if you are looking at 8m to the top of deck (or whatever it is to have clearance underneath), you are really looking at 2-3 stories of stairs. That's 32-48 risers. Add to that you probably can't get away without landings, and suddenly it is much chunkier than the rendering shows.

of course, its the initial phase, so they could modify it if it goes to the next round.

[King1629]

great designs.

Some of the designs from the engineering firms with absolute no knowledge of design are horrible.



Generally agreed. But I've been quite impressed by INFINITY's design :righton:.....they could improve on their renderings though. Some of the renderings from other engineers were not bad although the design sucked.

[Radley77]

In my opinion, the design should be focused on creating the highest quality pedestrian experience possible. This is key to the EV redevelopment. The design of the bridge should be engaging to the user and St. Patrick's Island is perceived to be an amenity.

For these reasons I liked:
SPF O-bar
SPF Glide
Sturgess
Busby Perkins And Will

I think that SPF O-bar has the potential to have the best possible night lighting with the accessed interior flood lights and recessed LED lighting and be very inviting. Coupled with more riverfront seating on the Island, I think this project could create a very high quality urban experience and be entirely unique to have a corridor of light.

I also like the benches on Sturgess design as well as the steps on SPF\Glide. SPF\Glide is the kind of place that one might want to take a book to read, or a meeting spot. It may not be an iconic landmark, but it could become as Wentworth pointed out an iconic gathering space.

Overall, I think it is important that the bridge that is selected is perceived as an amenity first to the pedestrian and to a much lesser extent has landmark appeal. It should serve to enhance the Riverwalk infrastructure.

I also think that the Busby Perkins and Will design is a compromise between people who desire a landmark and offers a better pedestrian experience rendition than the Infinity design (which would have large sacrifices of greenspace due to large footprint and poorer ingresses).

[unibrain]

I wonder instead of offering a public art program for pedestrian bridges, the money can go towards a better design... I know the pedestrian bridge budgets dont have a whole lot of funding in them... but for a designer to design something with a little bit more oomf would be nice... essentially, instead of a sculpture or a painting on one end, how about try and make the pedestrian bridge nicer by way of a spire and cables.. whatever..

[King1629]

I also think that the Busby Perkins and Will design is a compromise between people who desire a landmark and offers a better pedestrian experience rendition than the Infinity design.

The INFINITY design is certainly a 'worlds first' in terms of use of a cable net on a bridge and has great signature value. The walkways seem fun. Also they offer a clear view of the skyline from the outer ramp and a direct connectivity option to the N-S banks. Don't think any green space needs to be sacrificed, the space underneath could be landscaped and offer an interesting viewpoint of its underbelly structure. (which I agree is not clear from their renderings yet)

The Busby design has the twin towers, no central focal point and there are several similar designs out there.

[shogged]

so in terms of the vote, my "other" was Bosen Lu. Of all the tower designs I liked this one the most, very clean. The other ones just remind me of Provencher Bridge. Borrrrrring!

I also voted for O-Bar, which clearly won't win but in terms of radical thought, i think this one did it best! It's very unique and the concept is cool, but it's not going to fly because it just looks like you're going to be boxed in. Not something you'd want when walking over a beautiful river like the bow!

I think at the end of the day its going to come down to the reach and glide. I think the reach is far more friendly when it comes to photos and we'd see a design like that end up on alot more post cards than glide would... but I'd sure like to sit on the steps of glide facing the river and read a book! Either of those two would be a great addition to the bow river bridge family =D

Last vote was for Marc Boutin, because I felt I should use all 5 votes I had and it was the best of the rest =D

[Bigtime]

Designs for second Bow bridge unveiled
35 concepts vying for $25M project
By Jason Markusoff, Calgary HeraldSeptember 23, 2009 6:47 AM

The design contest for a pedestrian bridge at East Village pits towering structures versus sleek ones and the engineers of famous landmarks against Calgary architects who have never before dabbled in bridgemaking.

The city-owned agency behind the East Village redevelopment quietly released 35 competing concepts on its website Tuesday.

The island-hopping bridge over the Bow River is a sequel of sorts to Eau Claire's tubular Peace Bridge by Santiago Calatrava, a project city hall didn't open to competition.

But unless a similar red-steel curving cylinder wins out -- pitched by a Texas firm-- the St. Patrick's Island bridge will be a vastly different structure.

Marvin DeJong, who hasn't designed a bridge since a contest at his university 20 years ago, pitched a low twin arch with cables, with hooklike ribs along its winding platform.

"The S-turn makes it more of an experience to walk across," said the principal of residential design specialist DeJong Design Associates.

Even if his small Calgary firm doesn't win the competition, DeJong said it's a rare chance to have his work stand alongside that of world-renowned architects.

The open contest received a Golden Gate-styled design from an Austrian firm, and another that features two leaning cable-stayed towers that look like mountains, from a California designer.

Another entry boasts a low span with multiple on-ramps and a tower with solar panels that fuel the bridge lights. It's by Marc Boutin, the Calgarian behind the Peace Pole unveiled Sunday in Eau Claire.

"I don't think we would have got what we did out of this competition without the discussion that occurred over the Calatrava bridge," said Chris Ollenberger of the Calgary Municipal Land Corp., which is running the contest.

His agency will host an open house next month to let the public see the concepts up close--in addition to commenting online--before the corporation's advisory group determines a short list and eventual winning design.

The bridge, from East Village to the north bank near Bridgeland, with a stop on St. Patrick's Island, is estimated to cost $25 million, depending on the design. The agency will pay for its 2011 construction through a special infrastructure fund for East Village renewal. It expects to recoup the costs through property taxes and land sales.

Manu Chugh Architects, another local firm without experience in bridge design, submitted a design with low wavelike arches meant to complement the Bow River's gentle flow.

Arup, the international engineering giant behind Sydney's Opera House and other renowned works, collaborated on three designs, including one with Calgarybased Kasian. Its dominated by squiggly arches meant to look like the motions of fly-fishers.

Many designs pay tribute to the Bow's shape, while others clearly took inspiration from Calatrava's harp-like cable bridges, Ollenberger said.

jmarkusoff@theherald.canwest.com---Visit our website for photos of the bridge entries

© Copyright (c) The Calgary Herald
Link (http://www.calgaryherald.com/entertainment/Designs+second+bridge+unveiled/2021999/story.html)

[Fernando]

Designs for second Bow bridge unveiled
35 concepts vying for $25M project
By Jason Markusoff, Calgary HeraldSeptember 23, 2009 6:47 AM


SSP Comments Jihad!

[Riise]

I think I have fallen in love with a bridge, hahaha! I really like The Reach by Halcrow Yolles and it continues to grow on me the more I admire it. It is striking, artistic, aesthetically pleasing, and admirably original. It does not remind me of any other bridge I have seen yet it feels contemporary. While the submission by Arup & Kasian has a similar waviness, it feels visually empty compared to The Reach; just bare bone beams.

[Bigtime]

Interesting Riise, I am actually leaning the other direction. I quite like the Arup & Kasian one more than 'The Reach'. However I'd love to get more detailed renderings and schematics for both.

I'm still convinced both firms are using the 500 meters of piping ordered for Micah Lexier's 'Half K' sculpture that was supposed to go on the arriVa site! :haha:

[LynnDen]

The reach does not even work structurally. You can make it work somehow, I suppose. But the design is too much of a sculpture.

[You Need A Thneed]

My Thought from last night:

I don't think the Rosales bridge works as rendered. There is a reason why these leaning tower cable stay bridges lean away from where the cables are pulling, to counteract the weight of the bridge. It's not going to be possible to have those towers leaning towards the bridges that they support as they are shown, without them either being a LOT bigger then they are, OR, if the two towers are tied together, so the forces balance out.

I'm not sure if DeJong's works as well, the "rings" likely have to be bigger so that the cables don't connect to the bridge at such a shallow angle, plus those half arches over top of the deck that the cable connect to likely would have to be bigger to be strong enough, with the cables and the weight of the bridge pulling them sideways.

[smitty67]

I would really like to thank Hed Kandi for the initial comments. Well said. Great to see public architecture/design discussion this interesting in Calgary. We have a long way to go as a city, but its great to see that there has been a lot of interest and commentary on this project…….. no matter how misguided some of it may be.

There are a few things that are being mentioned in these threads that I find problematic. I personally believe that a lot of the architects/designers have missed the point on this bridge. Not all, but quite a few.

The search for an ‘iconic’ form for the bridge is an issue that has been plaguing so much of contemporary architecture these days. The bridge does not need to be iconic, it needs to be a bridge. A great bridge that will one day become an important part of the lives of the people within the communities. If we build this city (Calgary) as a series of ‘icons’ then it will have no consistency, no real fabric…… only self indulgent statements. A structure that allows people to cross the river, to get to St Pats island, to stay out of the rain and snow, and to allow the Bow to feel as uninterrupted as possible to me is a very successful project.

The Calgary tower is an icon. A symbol of the city. The Ponte Vecchio in Florence is an icon, deserved through hundreds of years of service to the city (I guarantee that it was ever intended to be iconic).

As far as the structures themselves, I believe the mast/cable/suspension solutions are very troubling. If a mast structure was appropriate for a climate/region such as Calgary’s don’t you think that the master of all mast structures (Calatrava) would have done one himself? Instead he offered a solution that was more sympathetic to seasonal variation, rain, snow, etc. Very few of the designs in this competition actually took these issues into consideration.

Many of the architects/designers tried to make this bridge their opportunity for gestures that go way beyond the point of the competition. Some proposals actually incorporate three bridges/pathways into one solution (how much bridge does one actually need to get from A to B?! Some completely obstruct the visible link from east and west along the Bow.

Let’s not forget that this island are river should still be the focus, not the bridge.

Those are my thoughts.
Smitty76

[You Need A Thneed]

The reach does not even work structurally. You can make it work somehow, I suppose. But the design is too much of a sculpture.

The renderings aren't nearly good enough to determine whether it works structurally. Obviously it requires some cables between the deck and the arches, cables that can't really be seen on the renderings.

I'm not worried that a structural engineer that engineered the Bow building would design a bridge that doesn't work. I think they have a pretty darn good idea of what works, and what doesn't.

[You Need A Thneed]

As far as the structures themselves, I believe the mast/cable/suspension solutions are very troubling. If a mast structure was appropriate for a climate/region such as Calgary’s don’t you think that the master of all mast structures (Calatrava) would have done one himself? Instead he offered a solution that was more sympathetic to seasonal variation, rain, snow, etc. Very few of the designs in this competition actually took these issues into consideration.

The location of Calatrava's bridge further west didn't allow for any towers to support cables, etc, due to the Helipad nearby. It's not because of any climate issues. There are quite a few suspension and cable stayed bridges already in Calgary, so I don't think it's an issue.

[CorporateWhore]

nm beaten to it.

[smitty67]

i was unaware of the height restrictions. either way, in my opinion, the mast structures are over done and not right for our climate.

[Bigtime]

If a mast structure was appropriate for a climate/region such as Calgary’s don’t you think that the master of all mast structures (Calatrava) would have done one himself? Instead he offered a solution that was more sympathetic to seasonal variation, rain, snow, etc. Very few of the designs in this competition actually took these issues into consideration.

Calatrava could not give us a mast structure due to the height limits imposed by the nearby heli-pad.

The question would be would Calatrava have given us another mast structure if the heli-pad had not been by it?

Edit: Beaten like a red headed stepchild.

[Look way up]

I like the Infinity design.

[shreddog]

Could've posted this in the other thread - but doing so here.

I wonder how different these submissions would have looked like had this competition been run 12 months ago? Or 10 years ago??

The future is definitely looking good!

[shreddog]

Also, I really am liking Glide.

I can just picture the upriver side assuming an impromtu "speakers corner" like role when some activitist wants to address the evils of capitialism with the Calgary skyline as a backdrop.

I can also picture myself sitting there with a book on the first warm day of Spring.

Or kids hiking there from a zoo summer camp to discuss the role of rivers in Calgary.

I think it integrates the island and river best - as opposed to most of the bridges which see both as more of an obstacle.

EDIT: The only thing I really don't like about "Glide" is the near complete destruction of all the new condos in Vic Park. Good to see Bigtime still has a home, but what about those poor souls at Neura, Sasso and Vetro???

[Wooster]

Anyone else notice a zebra and a giraffe in the first large SPF "glide" image? Zoo break! That would really liven up St. Patrick's Island!

[smitty67]

the inifinty design is on eof the most rediculous i've seen.

how much of the island do they intend to overtake?

how many bridges are actually going to be spanning the Bow at the point of island.

good lord.

[Bigtime]

EDIT: The only thing I really don't like about "Glide" is the near complete destruction of all the new condos in Vic Park. Good to see Bigtime still has a home, but what about those poor souls at Neura, Sasso and Vetro???

Good for my resale value I guess! :haha:

[Riise]

I'm not worried that a structural engineer that engineered the Bow building would design a bridge that doesn't work. I think they have a pretty darn good idea of what works, and what doesn't.

Yeah, I was quite surprised that this design came from an engineering firm. These guys probably have the best idea of what can and cannot be done, as well as, the knowledge to attempt what currently cannot.

[CorporateWhore]

EDIT: The only thing I really don't like about "Glide" is the near complete destruction of all the new condos in Vic Park. Good to see Bigtime still has a home, but what about those poor souls at Neura, Sasso and Vetro???

Both Sasso AND Vetro, you say? Well, that's it then, I'm voting for Glide!

[smitty67]

its amazing how many people out there are loving the gluide proposal. another example of a 'bridge' that completely dominates the point of the island. much like the inifnity bridge, it completely cuts the island in half, rendering the most interesting portion of the island, the point with its views to downtown, completely unaccessible.

also, have you looked at the section of that thing? an engineer should be ashamed of themselves for covering up a structure with so much dressing?

the glide proposal is one of the least interesting structures in the bunch.

imho, i think that the rogers stirk harbour and partners design has been heavily overlooked. it will no doubt be one of the shortlisted entries. people think it is the same as the peace bridge, its not even close!

[Wooster]

How do you get onto the island from the Rogers Stirk Harbour proposal. I don't see any actual access.

What I personally like about the SPF glide is how the bridge structure itself becomes the true viewing platform for a lot of people on the steps both looking west toward downtown and east onto the island. It's so much on the eastern tip that the little wedge of greenspace on any of the bridge designs isn't really useable space. The bridge is the useable space, and the SPF provides the best gathering place on the bridge itself of any of the proposals. People should be invited to stop, observe, hang out on the bridge instead of just being a thoroughfare.

[smitty67]

you can faintly see the ramps on the rogers stirk harbour and partners proposal. they're there. just faint. i didn't see it right away either.

but who cares too much about ramps and getting on and off at this point, that will all be sorted out in the next round. this is supposed to a CONCEPTUAL submission.

the point i was trying to make is that (in true richard rogers style) their proposal has a very straight forward, elegant solution.

i think that you will niotice that the more mature designers (like rogers) have not taken this as an opportunity to go absolutely wild.

how much concrete would go into a structure if you were to build boutin's design, or the now famous glide? bridges have always been about structural beauty and elegance, not like what boutin has offered..... and absolute structural circus.

[Innersoul1]

I must admit that I was one of those people who really wanted some height in terms of the new bridge design. Given the location it really acts as a visual gateway to downtown so a design with some height could really be striking.

I know that the Busby Perkins + Will design has a 'Sundial' feel to it but it is just so elegant. I really like it quite a bit! I also thought that the Bosun Lu design was well done although the proposal left me wanting more detail.

I HATE HATE HATE the Glide proposal. I think that it is a Public Works nightmare in terms of our winter climate. Have fun shovelling that. Quite honestly it looks like a beached whale!

I am going to go home tonight and ponder some of the mid-range height proposals because I also believe that there are some solid ones in there.

[Stephen Ave]

I'm having a hard time deciding what style to hope for. I'm with many of you who like the Hacrow Yolles - 'Reach', and the Arup Glide' Both of those designs are quite different from the norm. 'Glide' is straight forward and elegant.

Now my dilemma. We had a bunch of people over last night for a birthday dinner. People ranging from all ages, etc... I hooked up the laptop to the TV and showed everyone the designs. Virtually everyone liked the tall free cable styled designs. I mentioned that I liked the 'Glide', but everyone thought it was boring, and nobody liked it. I realize that these folks aren't into architecture, so I'm not surprised.

Would it be better to have something we all like, but wouldn't necessarily appeal to the general public? Or something stereotypical, yet appeal more to the masses?

Maybe it's the family and friends I keep. I would be curious to see some sort of 'general public' vote on the styles.

[Wooster]

You know, I didn't even clue in that that was Richard Rogers. stupid me.

To me the access to the island should be a fundamental characteristic of the conceptual design - not something that should be worked out in the next round. That's largely what this bridge is about!

[smitty67]

i do like your comments, wooster, on the social aspect of the glide. but i believe that the bridge is a beautiful thourghfare, and that it should be a way of getting to the social spaces on the island. access to a public park, square, etc. not a publis square itself, it just becomes to big!

if we were going to look at specifics, i can only imagine the handrails that will need to be placed on the walkway, ramps and stairs, and are those off ramps more than 5% slope as called for on the brief? i doubt it!!!

ahahahaha. but honestly, it's just to damn over powering.

[Fernando]

how much concrete would go into a structure if you were to build boutin's design, or the now famous glide? bridges have always been about structural beauty and elegance, not like what boutin has offered..... and absolute structural circus.


Quoted for truth.

[smitty67]

well the access is there on the rogers stirk harbour and partners bridge, so lets move on.

my shortlist top five are (in no particular order):

rogers stirk harbour and partners with halcrow yolles
sturgess (and his army of consultants)
arup with kasian
busby perkins and will with fast and epp
spfa with arup

[Wooster]

I certainly do agree that the SPF proposal perhaps may be a bit overpowering in terms of width. I think if it was narrowed slightly and perhaps included some different materials like wood on the stairs, it could be a winner. Overall though its blade like profile and flowing lines are quite elegant.

[Fernando]

The problem I have with the Sturgess proposal is the lower deck appears almost unusable. The diagonal cables seem to half the usable space of the deck for moving through. It also seems quite dangerous.

[You Need A Thneed]

On the Rogers Stirk, I recognize that it might be the least like the other proposals, and it's one of the only bridges with a canopy, but to me, it just doesn't feel right. I don't think I want a big canopy over my head in that location. I want to be able to look up to the sky, see lots of the natural surroundings around me, plus the ability to see the skyline. I do think that making the whole thing white (or another single colour) would make the bridge look a little bit better.

As for SPF:a Glide, the materials/ details would really make or break the project. If the whole thing is plain concrete, or all of the same material, it would look terrible. I do think it would require more railings then is shown in the rendering, and the placement/execution of those would make or break the design too. Done right, it could be a gathering place all in it's own, but done poorly, it could really take away from ever making the island a great place. I'd shortlist it to see more details get worked on, but even then, I don't think it would be my favourite.

[Wooster]

I'm having a hard time deciding what style to hope for. I'm with many of you who like the Hacrow Yolles - 'Reach', and the Arup Glide' Both of those designs are quite different from the norm. 'Glide' is straight forward and elegant.

Now my dilemma. We had a bunch of people over last night for a birthday dinner. People ranging from all ages, etc... I hooked up the laptop to the TV and showed everyone the designs. Virtually everyone liked the tall free cable styled designs. I mentioned that I liked the 'Glide', but everyone thought it was boring, and nobody liked it. I realize that these folks aren't into architecture, so I'm not surprised.

Would it be better to have something we all like, but wouldn't necessarily appeal to the general public? Or something stereotypical, yet appeal more to the masses?

Maybe it's the family and friends I keep. I would be curious to see some sort of 'general public' vote on the styles.

I think for this reason the Arup/Kasian and Halcrow Yolles "reach" proposals will be extremely popular with the public. Conceptually, the bridges are very similar, but I'm leaning toward Arup/Kasian being the better of the two.