[Yankee]

The title says it all :D Post pictures of international borders here.

I'll start. Here's the heavily fortified border between the Netherlands and Belgium :haha:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/da/Baarle-Nassau_fronti%C3%A8re_caf%C3%A9.jpg/800px-Baarle-Nassau_fronti%C3%A8re_caf%C3%A9.jpg
wikipedia

[Bootstrap Bill]

Interesting. It appears to be a single business on both sides of the border. Is this common?

[R@ptor]

Is this common?

Yes, there are plenty of restaurants or shops, particularly on the Dutch-Belgian and the German-French border where for example half the tables are in one country, the other half in another.

That's IMO pretty much how borders (at least between developed countries) should look like everywhere in the 21st century. :yes:

Crossing borders in continental Europe (Schengen-Zone) is exactly as driving from one US state to the other these days, you'll pass a sign and that's it.

http://images.travelpod.com/users/goldenbez/my_experiment.1186495020.belgium-border-crossingx.jpg
http://images.travelpod.com/users/goldenbez/my_experiment.1186495020.belgium-border-crossingx.jpg

Only the UK and Ireland still insist on their stupid border controls.

[R@ptor]

Here's a map of the Schengen-Zone (dark blue) which consists of 22 of the 27 EU countries as well as Norway, Iceland and since last December also Switzerland.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/15/SchengenAgreement_map.svg/569px-SchengenAgreement_map.svg.png

All internal borders in the dark blue area have been demolished and there are no more border checks.

[Swede]

On the Swedish-Finnish border there's even a golf-course were some tees is on one side of the border and some greens on the other.

http://www.haparandatornio.com/images/200.382476f811dab8defa980001571/golf+p%C3%A5+gr%C3%A4nsen.jpg http://www.haparandatornio.com/images/200.382476f811dab8defa980001465/Golfbanan.jpg
source (http://www.haparandatornio.com/english/horisontellmeny/activities/golf.4.1a410ae511cd867ef96800010802.html)

[Lexy]

The title says it all :D Post pictures of international borders here.

I'll start. Here's the heavily fortified border between the Netherlands and Belgium :haha:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/da/Baarle-Nassau_fronti%C3%A8re_caf%C3%A9.jpg/800px-Baarle-Nassau_fronti%C3%A8re_caf%C3%A9.jpg
wikipedia

LMAO!! That's pretty wild. Here in the US, on the border with Canada there are some homes that are cut in half by the border. There is one that was in National Geographic Magazine once that was intresting. The border ran through the Master bedroom. One half of the bed was American the other half Canadian.

I don't have to tell you what the southern border is like here.

[Busy Bee]

I was in Europe 2 years ago and crossed the Austria-Slovenia border by train, and even though Slovenia is an EU member and in the Schengen-Zone, the train was stopped for 10 minutes at the border station and all passports were checked and stamped by Slovene border guards(one was pretty cute).

[R@ptor]

I was in Europe 2 years ago and crossed the Austria-Slovenia border by train, and even though Slovenia is an EU member and in the Schengen-Zone, the train was stopped for 10 minutes at the border station and all passports were checked and stamped by Slovene border guards(one was pretty cute).

That's because the Eastern European countries (including Slovenia) are only part of the Schengen Zone since December 2007...slightly less than 2 years ago. If you would take the same train today, there would be no more controls. And even back then passports were only required for non-EU citizens like yourself, EU citizens just needed ID cards. But as I said it's no longer the case.

[emathias]

So at what point does Europe become federal enough to be considered one country, like the U.S. or the U.K.?

[Ayreonaut]

Going from Italy to Switzerland they were checking bags and passports on the train, we didn't stop though.

[vid]

Until a couple years ago, getting into the US was as easy as showing a birth certificate and drivers license. Now it is like trying to get into China. :( The borders here are almost entirely water, people have on many occasions accidentally gone into the other country without realizing it just by crossing what they thought was a normal river or lake. Now there are unmanned flying drones patrolling it so I guess you have to be more careful now.

[Cirrus]

Not sure why this is in the Transportation forum. I'm moving it to City Discussions.

[Reverberation]

The southern border of the US and Mexico (in San Diego):

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3552/3831790653_b588fb1357_b.jpg

[M II A II R II K]

http://www.britannica.com/blogs/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/dmz.jpg
britannica.com

[MonkeyRonin]

The shit is going on here?

http://img42.imageshack.us/img42/5901/23958915.jpg

[vid]

They were drunk.

[Strange Meat]

YeSX6AZ5xEI

[Fusey]

Crossing borders in continental Europe (Schengen-Zone) is exactly as driving from one US state to the other these days, you'll pass a sign and that's it.

Over the summer I went from Gothenburg to Oslo and border control (I think they were border control) came on the bus asking everyone if they were living in Sweden. I said no and they checked my passport. I think it was just a random stop; a buddy of mine has made that trip several times and he said that was the only time he's been stopped there.

We have similar stops throughout the Southwest; you're simply asked if you're a U.S. citizen or not.

[sofresh808]

Traveling between France and Spain last month, i had French police sweep the train once doing passport checks, followed by Spanish police sweep the train minutes later. They actually stopped the train in the middle of nowhere the second time, and the Spanish Police took the girl sitting behind me off for having no ID or passport on her (she appeared European and spoke French). This was the only place I ever encountered something like that traveling in Western Europe.

[Fusey]

^ The French and Spanish governments have been collaborating on their investigations of ETA more and more over the past couple of years. That's the only reason I can think of for a sweep like that.

[mwadswor]

^ The French and Spanish governments have been collaborating on their investigations of ETA more and more over the past couple of years. That's the only reason I can think of for a sweep like that.

Could it have to do with the basque separatists along the French/Spanish border? They've been quiet for a while, but they're still a potential threat aren't they?

[SHiRO]

So at what point does Europe become federal enough to be considered one country, like the U.S. or the U.K.?
Sooner then we all think...:D

But it would probably be an unprecedented entity very difficult to define (and therefore utterly confusing) rather than an outright "federal state".

btw that first pic in this thread is Baarle Nassau/Baarle Hertog, a series of Dutch enclaves in a series of Belgian enclaves in the Netherlands. It's actually very close to my city, I can drive to it in 5 minutes.

In which country an adress is located is determined by where the frontdoor is.

http://www.geog.ucsb.edu/img/news/2009/600px-Baarle-Nassau_-_Baarle-Hertog-en.svg.png

[sofresh808]

^^Thats possible I guess, I was traveling from Toulouse to Barcelona on the Mediterranean side though. Most of the passengers seemed surprised by this too, so I am assuming its not a common occurrence.

[Fusey]

Maybe Raptor or Shiro can explain how random checks like the ones you and I experienced work within Schengen. I imagine the treaty allows some leeway for participating countries when it comes to law enforcement.

[SHiRO]

Maybe Raptor or Shiro can explain how random checks like the ones you and I experienced work within Schengen. I imagine the treaty allows some leeway for participating countries when it comes to law enforcement.
Well, police and other law enforcement will have the legal abilities to perform checks. Just not border checks anymore.

[mwadswor]

Well, police and other law enforcement will have the legal abilities to perform checks. Just not border checks anymore.

The US does the same thing along I-8 and other roads near the Mexican border (and I'm guessing near the Canadian border too, I just haven't driven on many freeways there). It doesn't really say anything about the EU not having completely open borders.

[Fusey]

They sometimes check on I-5 between Orange and San Diego Counties, but that's usually only for buses.

[vid]

I've never heard of that on the Canadian border, but I think the RCMP do occasional checks on buses for wanted criminals? The OPP and other policing forces here have a habit of releasing criminals and giving them bus tickets to other jurisdictions.

[Bootstrap Bill]

Over the summer I went from Gothenburg to Oslo and border control (I think they were border control) came on the bus asking everyone if they were living in Sweden. I said no and they checked my passport. I think it was just a random stop; a buddy of mine has made that trip several times and he said that was the only time he's been stopped there.

We have similar stops throughout the Southwest; you're simply asked if you're a U.S. citizen or not.

California has checkpoints for produce - to keep out medflies and other insects. Does Europe do this?

[SHiRO]

California has checkpoints for produce - to keep out medflies and other insects. Does Europe do this?
No, just the UK and Ireland because they're not part of Schengen.

[mongoXZ]

The southern border of the US and Mexico (in San Diego):

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3552/3831790653_b588fb1357_b.jpg

I live near this area.

Correct me if I'm wrong but I can't think of any other border areas in the world besides the US/Mexico border (particularly San Diego-Tijuana) where the differences in the standard of living are practically on opposite ends of the spectrum as this picture exemplifies.

On the US side (bottom) you have the large shopping center with parking lots galore. Just next to it is your typical California cookie cutter suburban neighborhood. Less than 100 yards across the rusty steel curtain lies a crowded, third worldish hell hole.

Any other places similar in that fashion?

[emathias]

...Less than 100 yards across the rusty steel curtain lies a crowded, third worldish hell hole.

Any other places similar in that fashion?

Detroit and Windsor?

[emathias]

Until a couple years ago, getting into the US was as easy as showing a birth certificate and drivers license. Now it is like trying to get into China. :( The borders here are almost entirely water, people have on many occasions accidentally gone into the other country without realizing it just by crossing what they thought was a normal river or lake. Now there are unmanned flying drones patrolling it so I guess you have to be more careful now.

I can see you've never been to China. Far easier, in my experience.

[bbeliko]

I live near this area.

Correct me if I'm wrong but I can't think of any other border areas in the world besides the US/Mexico border (particularly San Diego-Tijuana) where the differences in the standard of living are practically on opposite ends of the spectrum as this picture exemplifies.

On the US side (bottom) you have the large shopping center with parking lots galore. Just next to it is your typical California cookie cutter suburban neighborhood. Less than 100 yards across the rusty steel curtain lies a crowded, third worldish hell hole.

Any other places similar in that fashion?
I think that the smaller US/Mexico crossings are even worse that San Diego-Tijuana

[Busy Bee]

Detroit and Windsor?

Biting.

[Visualize]

I live near this area.

Correct me if I'm wrong but I can't think of any other border areas in the world besides the US/Mexico border (particularly San Diego-Tijuana) where the differences in the standard of living are practically on opposite ends of the spectrum as this picture exemplifies.

On the US side (bottom) you have the large shopping center with parking lots galore. Just next to it is your typical California cookie cutter suburban neighborhood. Less than 100 yards across the rusty steel curtain lies a crowded, third worldish hell hole.

Any other places similar in that fashion?

Not a border but a severe divide in what I believe is Rio De Janeiro.

http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m48/visualeyez1983/worldscollide.jpg?t=1257568689
http://s101.photobucket.com/albums/m48/visualeyez1983/?action=view&current=worldscollide.jpg

[staff]

Now it is like trying to get into China. :(
What makes you think it's difficult to get into China? The border controls in the United States are far more time consuming (and harassing).

[sopas ej]

The southern border of the US and Mexico (in San Diego):

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3552/3831790653_b588fb1357_b.jpg

You neglected to show more; the San Diego (San Ysidro), California/Tijuana, BC border crossing is the busiest border crossing in the world.

Tijuana pedestrian border crossing:

Are they buying their cheap meds?
http://z.about.com/d/gocalifornia/1/0/f/t/2-P1060007.jpg
gocalifornia

You see entrepreneurs like this on some sidewalks in Los Angeles.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/88/US-Mexico_barrier_at_Tijuana_pedestrian_border_crossing.jpg
wikimedia

http://www.wakeupamerica.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/pedestrian_border_crossing_sign_tijuana_mexico.jpg
wakeupamerica.com

http://www.parks.ca.gov/pages/22491/images/fig%203%20border%20fig%203.jpg
parks.ca.gov

http://www.tijuanatravelguide.com/wp-content/uploads/tijuana-borders.jpg
tijuanatravelguide.com

http://www.bridgeandtunnelclub.com/bigmap/outoftown/mexico/bajacalifornia/tijuana/crossing/04border.jpg
bridgeandtunnelclub.com

[kevike]

I live near this area.

Correct me if I'm wrong but I can't think of any other border areas in the world besides the US/Mexico border (particularly San Diego-Tijuana) where the differences in the standard of living are practically on opposite ends of the spectrum as this picture exemplifies.

On the US side (bottom) you have the large shopping center with parking lots galore. Just next to it is your typical California cookie cutter suburban neighborhood. Less than 100 yards across the rusty steel curtain lies a crowded, third worldish hell hole.

Any other places similar in that fashion?

What's funny is most people on this Forum would probably prefer the urban Mexican side. It may be 3rd world, but it's walkable!

[sopas ej]

What's funny is most people on this Forum would probably prefer the urban Mexican side. It may be 3rd world, but it's walkable!

It's not a pleasant walk, though, having to run the gauntlet of street kids trying to sell you Chiclets.

[Ayreonaut]

Detroit and Windsor?

:haha:

[sznter]

Märket Island in the Baltic Sea, equipped with a lighthouse, divided by the Finnish-Swedish national border:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/75/M%C3%A4rket_Island_map.svg/400px-M%C3%A4rket_Island_map.svg.png
Wikipedia

http://img260.imageshack.us/img260/1500/mrket.jpg
Shore in the background: Finland
Pond on the left: Sweden
Lighthouse buildings: Finland
Bay on the right: Sweden

[Bootstrap Bill]

Detroit and Windsor?

I agree! Detroit reminded me of pictures I had seen of Beruit - block after block of burned out buildings. Crime is so bad that dry cleaning businesses have bullet proof glass.

Windsor was the exact opposite. Really nice place.

[NYC4Life]

Border crossing between El Paso, Texas & Ciudad Juarez, Mexico.

Though the two cities are divided only by the narrow Rio Grande River, they are World's apart in terms of livable and social conditions and crime. While Juarez has the world's highest city murder rate, its sister city across the border has one of the lowest crime rates of any city in the U.S.

http://img687.imageshack.us/img687/5406/1243063.jpg

[vid]

I can see you've never been to China. Far easier, in my experience.

What makes you think it's difficult to get into China? The border controls in the United States are far more time consuming (and harassing).

Two different experiences I guess. I assumed it would be harder to get into China because of the kind of government they have, they would want more control and restrictions over who is going there and where.

When I last went to the US, we just showed them ID and they waved us in, we didn't wait more than a minute. Now you need a passport, and most people here don't since like Europe, until recently you could cross the border without one. We got close to being like Europe is and it was even considered, but then 9/11 happened and the Americans got all paranoid.

[mwadswor]

I think that the smaller US/Mexico crossings are even worse that San Diego-Tijuana

I would think that the contrast would be less stark at smaller crossings. Mexico might not be any better, but the US side isn't nearly as nice in places like Nogales or Yuma.

By the way, the contrast between Thailand and Cambodia is pretty stark at the Poi Pet border crossing. I'll post some pictures tomorrow, I'm too lazy tonight. The Thailand side isn't the nicest... but not that bad either, but as soon as you pass the border check you're immediately surrounded by mobs of begging children, the road goes from paved to rutted hell, and there are almost no motor vehicles on the Cambodian side.

[tablemtn]

The border fences between Spain and Morocco are quite impressive, but there aren't really buildings jutting up against each other, due to the wide swath that the border cuts. However, conditions are much poorer on the Moroccan sides than the Spanish ones.

[Nantais]

Spain-Portugal :

http://www.panoramio.com/photos/original/11584137.jpg
by Shahbaz MOMTAZ
http://www.panoramio.com

[tayser]

No national land borders in Australia (deerrrr), but a weird state border: VIC/NSW border is the Murray River (except for the far east) and you'd expect the border to run in the middle of the river - wrong, the border is actually on the Southern bank (VIC side) - therefore the Murray River is technically NSW territory.

Conjures up memories of primary school and the old agade "if you went duckshooting in Victoria (legal depending on season) and it landed in the Murray, you would be fined (Duckshooting = illegal in NSW)" etc etc.

[/random]

[R@ptor]

I assumed it would be harder to get into China because of the kind of government they have, they would want more control and restrictions over who is going there and where.

Not at all, they just check if you have a visa and then stamp it...that's it. And getting a Chinese visa is really easy as well. Just go to your neareast Chinese embassy, fill out a form, pay the fee and include 2 passport photos, then come back 4 hours later and pick up your passport with the visa. No questions or anything like that.

I've been to 44 countries (46 if you include Hong Kong and Macau which also have border controls) so far and in only 3 of them (USA, Canada, Singapore) was I ever asked anything at the border (reason for visit, intended length of stay,etc.), the US being the worst by far. In all other countries (including dictatorships, communist countries,etc) they simply stamped my passport and wished me a nice trip, no matter if in Asia, Africa or Australia.
Well, of course those are my experiences with a German passport...I suppose you'll get harassed a bit more if you show up with a Yemen passport.:)


As for borders with huge differences in standards of living...

North Korea - South Korea
Spain - Morocco
Greece - Albania
Greece - Macedonia
Israel - Palestine
Israel - Egypt
Kuwait - Iraq
Thailand - Myanmar
Thailand - Cambodia

[Nantais]

As for borders which huge differences in standards of living...

North Korea - South Korea
Spain - Morocco
Greece - Albania
Greece - Macedonia
Israel - Palestine
Israel - Egypt
Kuwait - Iraq
Thailand - Myanmar
Thailand - Cambodia

France (French Guiana) - Suriname
France - Brazil

[dimondpark]

Santana do Livramento-RS, Brazil and Rivera, Uruguay
http://images.orkut.com/orkut/albums3/ATgAAAAk02FOtwC6h4x59jd-L9oIVA4EpOf3b60L2w7ZYUtm2bEemtbhSFyLMp8V3JOG-I-2lhTBYg7ybvFwf8y7qTbSAJtU9VCoLyBuXh77kVTA09KG3vesKeLuVQ.jpg
Nothing but these 2 flags separates the two nations. As easy as crossing the street. LOL

I loved living in these border towns. The people were so awesome.

[Lexy]

I live near this area.

Correct me if I'm wrong but I can't think of any other border areas in the world besides the US/Mexico border (particularly San Diego-Tijuana) where the differences in the standard of living are practically on opposite ends of the spectrum as this picture exemplifies.

On the US side (bottom) you have the large shopping center with parking lots galore. Just next to it is your typical California cookie cutter suburban neighborhood. Less than 100 yards across the rusty steel curtain lies a crowded, third worldish hell hole.

Any other places similar in that fashion?

El Paso and Juarez come to mind here.

[Swede]

Märket Island in the Baltic Sea, equipped with a lighthouse, divided by the Finnish-Swedish national border:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/75/M%C3%A4rket_Island_map.svg/400px-M%C3%A4rket_Island_map.svg.png
Wikipedia

http://img260.imageshack.us/img260/1500/mrket.jpg
Shore in the background: Finland
Pond on the left: Sweden
Lighthouse buildings: Finland
Bay on the right: Sweden
I didn't know about that island! looks to me like the result of the peace negotiations when we lost finland to Russia.


As to the earlier question of when will the EU be considered one country? I'd say it will the day the armed forces are integrated into one permanent command structure. Then we'll go from trans-national confederacy to a plain confederacy. Hopefully there'll be other reform along the way (more towards federalism, more openness, more democracy, less lobbyist rule).

[iheartthed]

Crime is so bad that dry cleaning businesses have bullet proof glass.

Where are you from?

[Bootstrap Bill]

Where are you from?

Currently in Murrieta, California, but I've spent most of my life in Orange County.

I've been to the worst parts of LA and they don't compare to what I've seen in Detroit. Businesses in skidrow don't have bullet proof glass....

[iheartthed]

This is a snap shot that I pulled from the Wiki of the actual border while driving through the Detroit-Windsor Tunnel.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c7/DetroitWindsorTunnel.JPG

Source: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c7/DetroitWindsorTunnel.JPG

Here is a shot of the international boundary on the Ambassador Bridge (excuse the felon in the suit on the right):

http://www.windsoronphoto.com/AmbassadorBridge75Sep04/AmbassadorBridge75th12Sep04%20160.jpg

Source: http://www.windsoronphoto.com/AmbassadorBridge75Sep04/AmbassadorBridge75th12Sep04%20160.jpg

(I hope that I properly adhered to the citation rules. It's my first time posting photos...)

[JManc]

I stood in the NL, Belgium and Germany all at the same time.

[iheartthed]

Currently in Murrieta, California, but I've spent most of my life in Orange County.

I've been to the worst parts of LA and they don't compare to what I've seen in Detroit. Businesses in skidrow don't have bullet proof glass....

I find that hard to believe. I can find businesses with bullet proof glass in nearly every major city in America, including Los Angeles... Which is a city with enough of its own fucked up areas to keep you preoccupied without ragging on Detroit.

I have a friend who works for Lockheed in L.A. as an operations engineer. He was harassed and threatened once for driving through the wrong neighborhood after work while wearing his blue Lockheed vest. I've never heard of something like that happening in Detroit.

[Yankee]

US - Mexico border:

http://www.latimes.com/media/photo/2009-03/45452188.jpg
LA Times

I wish our entire southern border looked like this. I have nothing against hard working immigrants - I myself am a 1st generation American born in Europe. What bothers me though is drug smuggling, human trafficking and gang violence spilling over the border just to name a few. I mean right now it's possible to smuggle a nuclear weapon into the US and detonate it anywhere, say downtown LA - we're so strict about air traffic but what's the point when literally anything can be smuggled across the southern border right now, and I don't imagine it's too difficult to smuggle anything into Mexico or countries bordering it either. It would cost a few billion to build a reliable fence along the entire border with cameras and sensors that can detect crossing or gunfire - that's how much we spend in Iraq every week, so why not do it. I'm pro-immigration and a liberal, but I'm also pro-security and pro-spending money on our own country :cool:

That's really off-topic though, sorry for digressing.

Some amazing examples there, thank you for posting. I started the thread by posting the Belgium / Netherlands border image and then the question came up about businesses straddling Schengen area borders, which as it turns out is fairly common - my question is doesn't that present certain jurisdictional difficulties? Like, if a business is in two countries which country's laws do they follow when it comes to taxes, payroll, anything really...?

[R@ptor]

Like, if a business is in two countries which country's laws do they follow when it comes to taxes, payroll, anything really...?

At least in Europe it's the main entrance of the building that counts when it comes to taxes. So even if 80% of a building is located in Belgium, but the entrance is in the Netherlands, the residents pay taxes in the Netherlands.

It's a little more complicated with some laws. I remember an example (I think also from the Dutch-Belgian border) where the guests of a restaurants had to move to the Dutch side of the restaurant after 1 or 2 a.m., because restaurants in Belgium had to close an hour earlier than those in the Netherlands.

[jodelli]

Until a couple years ago, getting into the US was as easy as showing a birth certificate and drivers license. Now it is like trying to get into China. :( The borders here are almost entirely water, people have on many occasions accidentally gone into the other country without realizing it just by crossing what they thought was a normal river or lake. Now there are unmanned flying drones patrolling it so I guess you have to be more careful now.

Pretty much the same deal here that Vid describes. The 'longest undefended border in the world' no longer is.

Here are some pictures I took over the last few years.

From my balcony in east Windsor, Ontario, Canada; Belle Isle and part of the east side of Detroit. The border is in the river about 600 metres away.
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2729/4082765225_f901c17470_o.jpg


A couple of Januarys ago:
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2719/4069908868_80bc9d16d2_b.jpg

Ambassador Bridge:

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3009/2825577054_2645a6d2b0_b.jpg
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3211/2736191735_a59f908857_b.jpg

From near Detroit's Hart Plaza:
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2073/2401367999_e266df6ec6_b.jpg

Detroit Windsor Tunnel:
Windsor terminus:
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2022/2231804724_8d2e9238db_b.jpg

In the middle:
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3111/2825614222_584b1a7ea5.jpg

Randolph on the Detroit side:
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2153/2401379063_86895f3622_b.jpg
(Picture the tunnel exit to your left. I'm not posting pics of the customs booths, not being crazy and all)

I live near this area.

Correct me if I'm wrong but I can't think of any other border areas in the world besides the US/Mexico border (particularly San Diego-Tijuana) where the differences in the standard of living are practically on opposite ends of the spectrum as this picture exemplifies.

On the US side (bottom) you have the large shopping center with parking lots galore. Just next to it is your typical California cookie cutter suburban neighborhood. Less than 100 yards across the rusty steel curtain lies a crowded, third worldish hell hole.

Any other places similar in that fashion?

Detroit and Windsor?

Guess which is which?
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3169/2957673931_997819f28a_o.jpg
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3070/2648546166_3312fb6b9c_o.jpg


But seriously, folks...

Detroit from the bridge:

Scroll>>>>
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3249/2737145897_f50c5d458d_o.jpg
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3198/2737981280_2e5c14ff08_o.jpg

The Canadian side at Windsor:
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3065/2790862454_ae4836e8ba_o.jpg
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3207/2958516886_0774ac334d.jpg



Vernor & Clark, SW Detroit:
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3201/2737981624_af868ab987.jpg

Sandwich & Mill, roughly opposite in SW Windsor:
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3293/2957679743_6592427deb.jpg

One for the road:
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3619/3574367160_db85888371_b.jpg

[salaverryo]

As for borders with huge differences in standards of living...

Spain - Morocco


Spain & Morocco don't share a land border. There is a body of water (the Mediterranean Sea) between the two countries.

[SHiRO]

Spain & Morocco don't share a land border. There is a body of water (the Mediterranean Sea) between the two countries.
Actually they do...;)

[R@ptor]

Spain & Morocco don't share a land border. There is a body of water (the Mediterranean Sea) between the two countries.

Ever heard of Ceuta and Melilla???

[mwadswor]

Not at all, they just check if you have a visa and then stamp it...that's it. And getting a Chinese visa is really easy as well. Just go to your neareast Chinese embassy, fill out a form, pay the fee and include 2 passport photos, then come back 4 hours later and pick up your passport with the visa. No questions or anything like that.

I was denied a visa when I tried to get into China. I went to the embassy in Bangkok wanting to fly to Ghuangzhou, but was denied. Others in my group got denied when they tried to get in from Tokyo and Hong Kong. It was probably just been the timing though. We were there in June and July 2008 and were told that China had stopped issuing visas for the summer because of the olympics (none of us were smart enough to apply too far in advance or from the US).

I've been to 44 countries (46 if you include Hong Kong and Macau which also have border controls) so far and in only 3 of them (USA, Canada, Singapore) was I ever asked anything at the border (reason for visit, intended length of stay,etc.), the US being the worst by far. In all other countries (including dictatorships, communist countries,etc) they simply stamped my passport and wished me a nice trip, no matter if in Asia, Africa or Australia.
Well, of course those are my experiences with a German passport...I suppose you'll get harassed a bit more if you show up with a Yemen passport.:)

I've only been to 8 countries (US passport), but I've been asked about reason for visit, length of stay, adress I was staying at, etc. every single time. Not only was I asked by a border agent, but most of the time I had to fill out a form with the information too, so it wasn't just the agent harassing me.

Thailand - Cambodia

Thailand - Cambodia was by far the most problematic border I've ever crossed. Mostly because of the sheer, blatant corruption. The Thai side was fine. When I tried getting a day pass into Cambodia the border guard refused to give it to me and my friend for less than $30 each even though the sign over his head clearly said $20 (he just shrugged and said "old sign" when we pointed this out). We only had US$20 each because that's what we'd planned on, so he tried to get us to pay $20 and 500 baht (almost $40 total), and when we wouldn't pay he just ignored us and went to the next people in line. We finally just paid him the money and watched him openly put the $20 in the cashbox and the 500 baht in his own wallet.

Same deal on the way back out. We tried just bypassing the checkpoint becasue there are no gates, just a window on each side of the road. No one stopped us in Cambodia, but they wouldn't let us back into Thailand without an exit stamp from Cambodia. Walking back across the bridge a pair of military guys with lots of stars on their uniforms (far too many for them to have been their legitimately... our guess was that these "generals" bought them in a tourist shop) pulled us into their office and proceeded to shake us down for another 300 baht each (US$10) before giving our passport to some guy (no uniform... just some guy they pulled off the street) and sent him back to the passport window to get our exit stamps. Thankfully, he actually came back with our passports and the exit stamps, but he harrased my friend and I the whole way back across the bridge for his "fee" for being the runner... though he backed off when we saw some Thai border agents on the other side.

I've only been to 8 countries, but my friend lived in central America for 2 years and has ridden busses from Panama to Mexico and he agreed that Thailand - Cambodia was the most corrupt, pain in the butt border he'd ever crossed too. A lot of people cross that border in bus groups and don't realize that the bribes are prearranged (we had a lot of time to stand their and watch the bus drivers hand a lot of money to the border agents before the rest of their group came through), and many more people only go to the casinos, so they never technically enter Cambodia.

[mwadswor]

The bridge across the border, entering Cambodia. The tall buildings are the casinos. Gambling is ilegal in both Thailand and Cambodia, so they build these casinos on a narrow strip right along the border (not sure how the taxation works) between the border checkpoints. It's huge business to bus old Thai people (old people are the main gamblers in Thailand too :P) out to the border for the day.
http://lh5.ggpht.com/_c4WshzEPoNs/SKWLe0WsQUI/AAAAAAAAC8E/8BU5Gi153qo/003.JPG

http://lh5.ggpht.com/_c4WshzEPoNs/SKWLe1MEmyI/AAAAAAAAC8M/3a4ksMm8oSg/004.JPG[img/]

[img]http://lh5.ggpht.com/_c4WshzEPoNs/Sp7k1HiSAhI/AAAAAAAAEQY/lyAoLKlFqBE/024.JPG

The border

http://lh5.ggpht.com/_c4WshzEPoNs/Sp7k1GGimlI/AAAAAAAAEQg/fW5Ynoblvmo/026.JPG

Cambodia. This is the main highway from Thailand to Siem Reap (Angkor Wat) to and beyond.

http://lh5.ggpht.com/_c4WshzEPoNs/SKWMeh35yJI/AAAAAAAAC8s/KzWiuqbLers/008.JPG

Immediately off the main highway.

http://lh6.ggpht.com/_c4WshzEPoNs/SKWY6dMr1eI/AAAAAAAADAI/QcNdFPw-poQ/016.JPG

Not really relevant to the border (except for the casinos in the background), I'm just still amazed by this truck.

http://lh4.ggpht.com/_c4WshzEPoNs/Sp7km4cW1HI/AAAAAAAAEQI/0ug5iMJjfe4/020.JPG

http://lh5.ggpht.com/_c4WshzEPoNs/Sp7km4XXPBI/AAAAAAAAEQM/HIMrcFwC2EM/s576/021.JPG

http://lh5.ggpht.com/_c4WshzEPoNs/Sp7km2zTlJI/AAAAAAAAEQQ/ldqKyKStrY4/022.JPG

http://lh6.ggpht.com/_c4WshzEPoNs/Sp7kmyc8LBI/AAAAAAAAEQU/hQ9Gz2wJ8nE/s576/023.JPG

Back into Thailand.

http://lh4.ggpht.com/_c4WshzEPoNs/SKWMeh3YiyI/AAAAAAAAC8k/FV9pL-CwIaM/007.JPG

It's hard to tell because I was taking a picture of the cart (this is actually the first picture I took that day), but this is the thai side of the border. Notice the nice paved roads and the market in the background.

http://lh3.ggpht.com/_c4WshzEPoNs/SKWLev-nR1I/AAAAAAAAC78/MmvesE21jp0/002.JPG

[R@ptor]

I was denied a visa when I tried to get into China. I went to the embassy in Bangkok wanting to fly to Ghuangzhou, but was denied. Others in my group got denied when they tried to get in from Tokyo and Hong Kong. It was probably just been the timing though. We were there in June and July 2008 and were told that China had stopped issuing visas for the summer because of the olympics (none of us were smart enough to apply too far in advance or from the US).

As you already mentioned China had special visa policies in place during the Beijing Olympics, as well as for the 2 months before it.
But you still would have gotten one, if you had applied for it in the US. China is one of a handful of countries where it is always recommended to apply in your country of citizenship / residence. Russia for example is another one.
Visas are definitely something you should arrange before a trip, not while you are already travelling, this also applies to all 'third world countries' that offer visas on arrivals.



I've only been to 8 countries (US passport), but I've been asked about reason for visit, length of stay, adress I was staying at, etc. every single time. Not only was I asked by a border agent, but most of the time I had to fill out a form with the information too, so it wasn't just the agent harassing me.

I was refering to the immigration officers of course, not the forms. But you've been questioned in every country you went to???? I find that hard to believe. You mentioned you've been to Thailand. I've entered Thailand 5 times so far (3xBKK, 1xDMK, 1xCNX), not a single question each time.

What were the other countries?



Thailand - Cambodia was by far the most problematic border I've ever crossed. Mostly because of the sheer, blatant corruption. The Thai side was fine. When I tried getting a day pass into Cambodia the border guard refused to give it to me and my friend for less than $30 each even though the sign over his head clearly said $20 (he just shrugged and said "old sign" when we pointed this out). We only had US$20 each because that's what we'd planned on, so he tried to get us to pay $20 and 500 baht (almost $40 total), and when we wouldn't pay he just ignored us and went to the next people in line. We finally just paid him the money and watched him openly put the $20 in the cashbox and the 500 baht in his own wallet.

I've been to Cambodia last year and had no problem whatsoever. BUT....again, I had my visa arranged beforehand. If you show up at the border with a visa, they can't try and extort money from you.

[mwadswor]

Now leaving Thailand

http://lh4.ggpht.com/_c4WshzEPoNs/SJmen-h3iMI/AAAAAAAACQY/0TYsDRz83LI/008.JPG

The border (the Mekong river). At Nong Khai, if you're walking you get stamped out of thailand, you ride a free bus across the Thai-Lao friendship bridge, and you get stamped into Laos. In contrast the mayhem at the Cambodian border, it's all very well organized and there are no pedestrians.

http://lh5.ggpht.com/_c4WshzEPoNs/SJmenyTsfvI/AAAAAAAACQg/FO5P9S3IWkA/009.JPG

Thailand on the left, Laos on the right. The dark blue is the tinting at the top of the bus window, the sky doesn't actually look that cool :P

http://lh3.ggpht.com/_c4WshzEPoNs/SJmen0NCgEI/AAAAAAAACQo/7GHkqudiK3o/010.JPG

Entering Laos

http://lh5.ggpht.com/_c4WshzEPoNs/SJmeny4IVdI/AAAAAAAACQw/4CgUAfr3dpM/011.JPG

Looking from Laos back into Thailand

http://lh4.ggpht.com/_c4WshzEPoNs/SJnAJ-3Lb3I/AAAAAAAACVU/K3FaZ3pwn64/046.JPG

Crossing back

http://lh6.ggpht.com/_c4WshzEPoNs/SJnDXa9Pe4I/AAAAAAAACXw/UhUoCZhSBkY/s576/066.JPG

Laos drives on the right, Thailand on the left.

http://lh4.ggpht.com/_c4WshzEPoNs/SJnE55XzgAI/AAAAAAAACYQ/uZCUJvVM6Ik/070.JPG

Back across the bridge (those are Lao flags)

http://lh3.ggpht.com/_c4WshzEPoNs/SJnE6X9wALI/AAAAAAAACYg/SVROMRaOQQQ/072.

The flag with the spot is Laos. The striped flag in the background is Thailand. The yellow flag is the Thai king's flag.

http://lh5.ggpht.com/_c4WshzEPoNs/SJnE6f5-QHI/AAAAAAAACYo/gz_6LqNUe68/073.JPG

Back in Thailand

http://lh5.ggpht.com/_c4WshzEPoNs/SJnFRZWKcqI/AAAAAAAACYw/T_B8Ncdwwuk/074.JPG

[mwadswor]

As you already mentioned China had special visa policies in place during the Beijing Olympics, as well as for the 2 months before it.
But you still would have gotten one, if you had applied for it in the US. China is one of a handful of countries where it is always recommended to apply in your country of citizenship / residence. Russia for example is another one.
Visas are definitely something you should arrange before a trip, not while you are already travelling, this also applies to all 'third world countries' that offer visas on arrivals.

Yeah, I had Thailand planned out, I just didn't think to plan my Visa runs in advance.


I was refering to the immigration officers of course, not the forms. But you've been questioned in every country you went to???? I find that hard to believe. You mentioned you've been to Thailand. I've entered Thailand 5 times so far (3xBKK, 1xDMK, 1xCNX), not a single question each time.

What were the other countries? [quote]

US, UK, Ireland, Netherlands, Domincan Republic, Thailand, Laos, Cambodia. I guess it wasn't every single time. As I think about it, I'm not even sure if I passed through a customs checkpoint when I went from Dublin to Edinburough (connecting through Heathrow). But I definitely remember being given the "why are you here, how long are you staying" everywhere else, including flying from London to Dublin.

[QUOTE=R@ptor;4546393]I've been to Cambodia last year and had no problem whatsoever. BUT....again, I had my visa arranged beforehand. If you show up at the border with a visa, they can't try and extort money from you.

Cambodia was my most recent border crossing, except for flying back to the US. I never had any problems before, so I never thought about it before. I'll definitely be planning my trips better in the future... at least to countries with weaker national governments, although Laos was no problem and Laos' national government is just as relatively non-existant as Cambodia's.

[Fusey]

What's funny is most people on this Forum would probably prefer the urban Mexican side. It may be 3rd world, but it's walkable!

Eh... Not really. Tijuana is extremely sprawled out. Even walking to the Revolución from the border is a pain in the ass.

[Trantor]

Santana do Livramento-RS, Brazil and Rivera, Uruguay
http://images.orkut.com/orkut/albums3/ATgAAAAk02FOtwC6h4x59jd-L9oIVA4EpOf3b60L2w7ZYUtm2bEemtbhSFyLMp8V3JOG-I-2lhTBYg7ybvFwf8y7qTbSAJtU9VCoLyBuXh77kVTA09KG3vesKeLuVQ.jpg
Nothing but these 2 flags separates the two nations. As easy as crossing the street. LOL

I loved living in these border towns. The people were so awesome.

left, Brazil... right, Uruguay
http://static.panoramio.com/photos/original/20251125.jpg


Santana do Livramento, Brasil
http://static.panoramio.com/photos/original/20251144.jpg

[staff]

I have never applied for a China visa in my home country (I have entered the country at least 10 times)-- have never had any problems.

Cambodia? Been there twice getting a visa at the border. No problems, no hustle.

United States (and Canada) remain most problematic (as in time consuming, weird questions, rude personel etc.) countries to enter for me.

[JManc]

you can just show up in china without a visa? they issue them at airport?

[SHiRO]

I have never applied for a China visa in my home country (I have entered the country at least 10 times)-- have never had any problems.

Cambodia? Been there twice getting a visa at the border. No problems, no hustle.

United States (and Canada) remain most problematic (as in time consuming, weird questions, rude personel etc.) countries to enter for me.
Go figure and we're from fellow western countries!

Never had any problems at crossing any border. Most unfriendly? Definately the US. Although I do have to say that the customs officials after being over the top hostile and strict do lighten up after awhile. The guards running around at the various airports could use a lesson in manners though. All I saw was them yelling at people (about cellphones and other shit), when simply asking would have been more effective.

[JManc]

i had an easier and faster time entering japan, the netherlands and france than i did returning to the US. driving into mexico was also a cinch but driving back to the big wal-mart however....

[sofresh808]

Last time I went through customs flying back into the US, the first agent basically had a conversation with me, at first asked where I went and the purpose of my trip and then asked where I went to college, what I studied and what I intended to do with it. It flowed very well and was fast, but afterwards I was just like damn he's good. Second agent was more typical, with awkward pauses, and the staring of the passport and me for good 10 seconds before waving me through. I kinda miss the old days at TJ, when I could show my drivers license, be asked where I was born and waved through.

[tablemtn]

The most trouble I ever had at a border post was re-entering the Dominican Republic from Haiti at the Dajabón/Ouanaminthe crossing. The Dominican border agents thought I was a drug smuggler for some reason. I was interrogated and finally told to go back to Haiti and come back the next day because the border was "closed" for the night!

I did, and got back into the DR after a thorough search of my belongings the following day.

[tayser]

Surely with the ETA that the US adopted from Australia - the questions aren't posed as much anymore?

I'm going to be doing my first US entry in Feb.

Regardless, I'm surprised some of you who have been here haven't complained about entry into Australia - EVERYONE requires a visa (except New Zealand passport holders) whether it be the ETA or a more standard Visa stuck in the your passport - we're arseholes!! lol.

Most frustrating border crossing is Singapore-Malaysia over the causeway... no problem for entry requirements for AU passport holders, just going through the pain of getting bus to border check station, going through the procedure, getting back on the bus, stuck in traffic on the causeway, then doing the border check at the other end then back on the bus.... you need to set aside an hour to get across!

And agreed - China border crossings are simple, just apply for your visa in Hong Kong (pay the cheap rate, leave your passport with the agent overnight and you get it again the next morning with nice big El Communistico Visa stuck in it).

[Hayward]

The experience driving from Windsor, ON into Detroit, MI is interesting. If you avoid the ramps to the freeway you end up in SW Detroit with the abandoned train station looming overhead. Welcome to America. In recent years they've been working to improve this area, but they really need to fix the train depot.

[Yankee]

US - Russia maritime border:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c6/Diomede_Islands_Bering_Sea_Jul_2006.jpg
wikipedia

These two islands are located in the middle of the Bering strait. They're only 2.4mi apart and the US - Russia border runs in between. The little one on the left is in the United States - it's called Little Diomede, also known as Sarah Palin's favorite hangout spot :D. The bigger one on the right - Big Diomede - is in Russia. The international date line also runs in between and the time difference between the two is 21 hours :D

A few fun facts about our maritime border with Russia, which most people sadly aren't even aware exists: During the cold war it was known as the Ice Curtain and was militarized. Also, another thing that very few people know is that the Bering strait actually freezes over every winter forming an ice bridge, so our maritime border with Russia actually becomes a land border for a few months every year. A few years ago someone actually drove across, I remember reading about it... Fun stuff.

[staff]

you can just show up in china without a visa? they issue them at airport?
No, you need a visa beforehand, but I have never applied for it in Sweden-- only in other countries (Denmark, Thailand, Hong Kong).

[Shawn]

I've been questioned multiple times by Japanese customs, and I'm a fully-registered resident with all the paper work to prove it. I've had agents open my suitcases and rummage through my stuff. Other times I've had agents barely glance at my form before signing it off and waving my stuff through. Really depends on the individual agent you're dealing with.

I will say though, I always get questioned the most by American immigrations and customs. It's not necessarily the tone or manner which can be annoying (I usually end up with friendly - if curt - immigrations and customs agents), its their persistence and the depth of the questions. I understand the necessity of it, but it doesn't feel welcoming at all. It's a turn off, having to deal with that as your first interaction with Americans after landing. I can definitely see why foreign tourists would hate it.

[1ajs]

last while i have found the canada boarder people to be worse then the amaricans and getting worse by the year the amaricans have become more friendly in the last couple yrs

[PhilippeMtl]

On one side, Quebec (Canada), on left side, Vermont (USA)

Here is the Haskell Free Library and Opera House

http://i41.tinypic.com/az72fp.jpg
Source: tinypic.com

http://media.collegepublisher.com/media/paper234/stills/36w6a1kl.jpg
Source: McGill Tribute

WIKI: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haskell_Free_Library_and_Opera_House

[rousseau]

Santana do Livramento-RS, Brazil and Rivera, Uruguay
Nothing but these 2 flags separates the two nations. As easy as crossing the street. LOL

I loved living in these border towns. The people were so awesome.
Do people in the towns generally know enough of the language of the other town to be able to communicate? Or has a patois developed?

[Mr Nilsson]

So at what point does Europe become federal enough to be considered one country, like the U.S. or the U.K.?

Never, hopefully, though I suspect the bureaucrats have different ideas.

[Trantor]

Do people in the towns generally know enough of the language of the other town to be able to communicate? Or has a patois developed?

I dont know what a "patois" is, but bear in mind that portuguese and spanish although quite difference (as any american who tried to speak spanish in Brazil can tell you) are both iberian languages, thus, are similar at the same time.

so, although many uruguayans know portuguese and many brazilians in the southermost state know spanish (castillan), in these border cities they will usually speak "portuñol"... which is really a mix of both languages.

[rousseau]

so, although many uruguayans know portuguese and many brazilians in the southermost state know spanish (castillan), in these border cities they will usually speak "portuñol"... which is really a mix of both languages.
And that's a patois. See here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patois).

Portuguese and Spanish are similar enough that it makes you think that, as an erstwhile Spanish speaker, maybe you can pick up Portuguese and become survivalist conversant in a short time, but no...for the life of me, I just cannot understand what Portuguese-speakers are saying. Funny, I've actually heard that Portuguese speakers have an easier time with Spanish than Spanish-speakers have with Portuguese. I wonder if there's some truth to that?

[texcolo]

The title says it all :D Post pictures of international borders here.

I'll start. Here's the heavily fortified border between the Netherlands and Belgium :haha:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/da/Baarle-Nassau_fronti%C3%A8re_caf%C3%A9.jpg/800px-Baarle-Nassau_fronti%C3%A8re_caf%C3%A9.jpg
wikipedia

If a table was on the border, and one person sat on one side, and another on the opposite side of the table and border, and they split the check.... would one person pay sales take to the Netherlands and the other to Belgium????

[JManc]

No, you need a visa beforehand, but I have never applied for it in Sweden-- only in other countries (Denmark, Thailand, Hong Kong).

i thought so. plus there is a huge chinese consulate near me anyway.

[Busy Bee]

On one side, Quebec (Canada), on left side, Vermont (USA)

Here is the Haskell Free Library and Opera House

http://i41.tinypic.com/az72fp.jpg
Source: tinypic.com

http://media.collegepublisher.com/media/paper234/stills/36w6a1kl.jpg
Source: McGill Tribute

WIKI: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haskell_Free_Library_and_Opera_House

Whats the property tax situation on this place? And if you park over that line and its prohibited, who gives the ticket? :)

[Bootstrap Bill]

On one side, Quebec (Canada), on left side, Vermont (USA)

Here is the Haskell Free Library and Opera House

http://i41.tinypic.com/az72fp.jpg
Source: tinypic.com

http://media.collegepublisher.com/media/paper234/stills/36w6a1kl.jpg
Source: McGill Tribute

WIKI: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haskell_Free_Library_and_Opera_House

I've heard stories about homes that lie on the U.S./Canadian border.

What about customs? Is it really as easy to cross the border here as it is to cross the street in most towns?

Why can't the whole border be as open as it is here?

[Yankee]

Love this sign:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f5/Welcome_to_the_United_States_sign.jpg/800px-Welcome_to_the_United_States_sign.jpg

[sopas ej]

Funny, I've actually heard that Portuguese speakers have an easier time with Spanish than Spanish-speakers have with Portuguese. I wonder if there's some truth to that?

I wouldn't doubt that that's true. Just as with some of the Germanic languages; if you know German and English, you can read and understand Dutch.

[Gordo]

Out of my worst 20 border crossings, coming back into the US would count for at least 19 of them. The only bad one not involving the US was a land crossing from Venezuela to Brazil about seven years ago. Took a couple hours, had our bags dumped out on the dirt and everything kicked around (Venezuelan side), then the same exact thing happened on the Brazilian side. Only the Venezuelan side tried to get us to pay a "fee" though. I've crossed that border another time since, without any problem.

Never had any problems in Europe - hell, the last time I went to Paris (last December) our passports weren't even looked at when we got off the plane. They looked at about the first third of the plane, then just waved everyone else through.

[salaverryo]

Ever heard of Ceuta and Melilla???

Ceuta and Melilla are Spanish military outposts in Moroccan territory. This is like saying that Cuba and the USA share a border because of the presence of Guantanamo Base on the island.

[R@ptor]

Out of my worst 20 border crossings, coming back into the US would count for at least 19 of them.

I somehow find it mindboggling that even Americans are being questioned by immigration officers while returning to the US. Seriously, what's the purpose...they hardly can't deny Americans entrance into the United States.

I have certainly crossed the outside border of the EU more than 50 or 60 times (airports and land borders) and not once was I questionned by an immigration officer. Only ocassionally by custom agents.

Ceuta and Melilla are Spanish military outposts in Moroccan territory. This is like saying that Cuba and the USA share a border because of the presence of Guantanamo Base on the island.

Um...no. Guantanamo Bay is indeed just a military outposts, while Ceuta and Melilla are both cities and home to 76.500 and 69.000 civilians respectively. The same really can't be said about Guantanamo.

[Fusey]

Military outposts? Ceuta and Melilla are more similar to Gibraltar than Guantanamo. They are considered autonomous cities under Spanish law.

[mwadswor]

I somehow find it mindboggling that even Americans are being questioned by immigration officers while returning to the US. Seriously, what's the purpose...they hardly can't deny Americans entrance into the United States.

They're not going to deny Americans entry, but they could certainly decide that they want to go through your stuff/body cavities extra carefully looking for drugs/contraband/anything else illegal or irregular that they can use to delay you for hours of fun.