[Reichert]

OK, since we have a poll for larger cities, let's go for the 2nd tier. In this case I'm including metros from 300,000 to the million mark that Columbus sits at.

[Steely Dan]

madison. the lakes and the isthmus combine to make one of the most unique urban geographies in the midwest.

[Buckeye Native 001]

2003 called. They want their thread back.

Fargo.

[ColDayMan]

Well, seeing how my MSA is larger than any of those hoes mentioned (Dayton), I'm guessing we made it to first tier!!!

[hudkina]

Uh... You're missing a few cities there...;)

You have the Big 10: Chicago, Detroit, Minneapolis, St. Louis, Cleveland, Cincinnati, Kansas City, Columbus, Indianapolis, and Milwaukee.

Grand Rapids with a CSA approaching 1.5 million is the only other metro that is even remotely as big as the "Big 10". You could argue that Grand Rapids is on the cusp of being in the first tier. That will be especially true if in 2010 the MSA population jumps to over 1.1 million with the addition of Ottawa and Montcalm Counties. It could seal the deal by adding a pro sports franchise.

After that you have the likes of Dayton, Omaha, Akron, Toledo, Youngstown, Wichita, Madison, Des Moines, Lansing, Flint, Canton, Fort Wayne, Quad Cities, Springfield (MO), Peoria, Evansville, Ann Arbor, Rockford, South Bend, Kalamazoo, and Green Bay.

[DTO Luv]

After that you have the likes of Dayton, Omaha, Akron, Toledo, Youngstown, Wichita, Madison, Des Moines, Lansing, Flint, Canton, Fort Wayne, Quad Cities, Springfield (MO), Peoria, Evansville, Ann Arbor, Rockford, South Bend, Kalamazoo, and Green Bay.



I really hate to be an overly sensitive homer but for sure Omaha and Des Moines, Madison, even Wichita are not at all on the same level as any of those other cities you mentioned.

[hudkina]

Those are the cities with metros between 300,000 and 1,000,000. While Omaha happens to be one of the largest 2nd-tier cities, it is still a 2nd-tier city. It's like the difference between Chicago and Milwaukee. They're both first tier cities, but their metros are separated by nearly 8 million people. The difference between Omaha and Green Bay is only about 500,000. That's not a significant amount. Omaha is like the Chicago of the second-tier...;)

[Robert Pence]

As of 2008 according to Wikipedia, Fort Wayne MSA was estimated at a little more than 400,000 population.

I'll admit bias because it's where I've lived for a long time, but it's a pretty decent place to live. Cost of housing is modest, downtown is clean and safe and undergoing a revitalization that includes a new Triple-A ball park with a team that posted a winning season in 2009, an excellent and heavily-used public library, and a convenient, attractive convention center. The Allen County Courthouse is one of the most beautiful in the US.

The city's park system is excellent and there are beautiful old neighborhoods within the city limits. We have a growing greenway system and a city administration that actively promotes it. Want to see some photos? Check them out here (http://www.urbanindiana.com/in_fw/in_fw.html).

[Hayward]

I'm tied between Grand Rapids and Madison. I'm blown away by the number of beautifully preserved structures in GR, it's like a step back in time, but I'm very impressed with Madison as well, quite a vibrant place. I'd say GR has a bit of a ways to go before becoming a 1st tier, despite having a ridiculously large metro for only have 200,000 residents within the city. The list is missing alot though. If you are going to list Peoria, you've got a ton of other cities similar in size, if not even more notable that are missing.

[Evergrey]

Springfield, MO

[DeBaliviere]

Being a homer, I had to vote for my family's ancestral home, Omaha.

I have yet to visit Grand Rapids, but from what I've seen here, it looks like a great city.

[MplsTodd]

Madison! I spent 3.5 great years there and enjoy visiting each time I pass through. It's like a mini Mpls, with less sprawl.

[SuburbanNation]

Madison, but Omaha is surprisingly progressive and is probably a lot better choice career wise than any of the others.

[rockyi]

A while ago some of my friends moved to Grand Rapids for a few years. I have never heard such hatred and venom spewed about a city in my life. They seemed to have the impression that the people there were the rudest, meanest, most hateful people in the universe. My friends wife would call on the phone and actually be crying and carrying on about how she hated it there ("PLEASE save me from this HELL!"). But on my three visits there I found a clean, beautiful city although the downtown seemed vacant after working hours. I guess I never really saw the rudeness that they were seeing.
Those friends have lived in Florida since about '03 but STILL to this day talk about those horrible monster people of Grand Rapids.

[Exodus]

Grand Rapids, Michigans 2nd city and Michigans best kept secret. You have a very clean city with a decent crime rate, nice dense downtown along with a nice skyline and a big convention center. I also find it's downtown and skyline very interesting and kind of unique because it is slightly divided by the Grand River, which is a cozy little river with many cool little bridges:tup: The neighborhoods are historic and fairly dense, yet pretty clean also. Even its wharehouse districts are very well maintained.

[Hayward]

^ Agreed, it warehouse district is fairly robust and intact for a mid-sized city. I love Heartside. Probably the best warehouse district you can find in Michigan.

[vid]

Duluth! :banana:

Or Madison, which I think should be annexed by Minnesota or Illinois because it is just too good to be in a dumpy state like Wisconsin. ;)

[Hayward]

All my memories of Duluth were happy back when I had family there. But then a few threads on ssp showing cloudy and cold days + a bunch of half vacant buildings ruined it.

[SuburbanNation]

Duluth! :banana:

Or Madison, which I think should be annexed by Minnesota or Illinois because it is just too good to be in a dumpy state like Wisconsin. ;)

Bwahahah. Sorry, but I think Wisconsin>Illinois (south of I-80). Then, I am eternally staring at wet corn in a wide...wide swath of central Illinois from Peoria to Carbondale, because our Chicago office couldn't possibly be bothered with anything in their own state outside of Chicagoland.

[rockyi]

Duluth! :banana:

Or Madison, which I think should be annexed by Minnesota or Illinois because it is just too good to be in a dumpy state like Wisconsin. ;)

Have you actually ever been to Wisconsin? I've never thought of it as dumpy......funny accents and cheese yes, but never dumpy.

[vid]

I was making a joke. :(

Americans are so touchy. http://img527.imageshack.us/img527/5551/sniz.gif

[rockyi]

:( ^ I wasn't being touchy, I just wondered if you possibly saw something I didn't. I heard northern Wisconsin is rather poor but I haven't gone that far so I can't varify that. The southern and central parts of the state are very nice, though.

[vid]

Northern Wisconsin is just like Northern Ontario, but flat and the buildings are a bit older. The area has declined a lot since the 1920s and the way it looks reflects that. The twin ports don't really have a big city nearby to fuel growth. They're on their own. (Not as much as Thunder Bay, though, which is second only to St. John's in terms of cities with over 100,000 being isolated from other cities of similar size.)

[CGII]

:( ^ I wasn't being touchy, I just wondered if you possibly saw something I didn't. I heard northern Wisconsin is rather poor but I haven't gone that far so I can't varify that. The southern and central parts of the state are very nice, though.

Northern Wisconsin is very sparsely populated. I would guess that in the summer the population triples from all of the Milwaukee and Chicagoans who can't afford vacation homes on Lake Geneva anymore.

[Paule]

Northern Wisconsin is very sparsely populated. I would guess that in the summer the population triples from all of the Milwaukee and Chicagoans who can't afford vacation homes on Lake Geneva anymore.

Vid odviously doesn't know much about Wisconsin and I'm sure also knows that there aren't many Wisconsin forumers here who would either call him out on his stupid so called joke, or find it funny or in good taste.

[CGII]

Vid odviously doesn't know much about Wisconsin and I'm sure also knows that there aren't many Wisconsin forumers here who would either call him out on his stupid so called joke, or find it funny or in good taste.

Erm, Vid lives pretty damn close to Northern Wisconsin and has a reputation for sarcastic remarks...

[Buckeye Native 001]

Vid makes snarky comments!? The hell you say!

[Wolfmanfromsufu]

I picked Omaha simply because it's the only city on the list that I've spent any time in. So, it's a bit biased. But it's a good city to visit with the Zoo, Old Market, etc.

[uaarkson]

Grand Rapids is awesome, and only about a half-hour from Michigan's best beaches.

[vid]

Vid odviously doesn't know much about Wisconsin and I'm sure also knows that there aren't many Wisconsin forumers here who would either call him out on his stupid so called joke, or find it funny or in good taste.

I'm sowwy. :pet:

[fishrose]

Grand Rapids is awesome, and only about a half-hour from Michigan's best beaches.

GR is an absolutely beautiful city, and it's one of the few in Michigan that is doing well economically right now.