[reidjr]

The CFL schedule

http://www.cfl.ca/schedule/year/2012/time_zone/0

So depending on playoffs Ivor Wynne's last game will be Oct 27, 2012. Construction starts immediately after, again depending if there's a playoff.

Are they just going to fix up Ivor Wynne or will it be a new stadium?

[isaidso]

Are they just going to fix up Ivor Wynne or will it be a new stadium?

A completely new stadium with the stands oriented 90 degrees from its current position.

[reidjr]

A completely new stadium with the stands oriented 90 degrees from its current position.

Is there a updated render of the new stadium?

[CaptainKirk]

Thisk this is just pretty much conceptual back when it was still an east-west orientation.

http://img8.imageshack.us/img8/2161/ivorwynne3edit.jpg


http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg163/scaled.php?server=163&filename=ivorwynneedit.jpg&res=medium


http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg833/scaled.php?server=833&filename=ivorwynne2edit.jpg&res=medium

[SteelTown]

Is there a updated render of the new stadium?

We'll see the final plans in April I believe.

[isaidso]

We'll see the final plans in April I believe.

I hope it's as good as that West Harbour/TigerTown design. That was fabulous. Anything less would be a massive disappointment.

[CaptainKirk]

Tiger Town? What is that?

[SteelTown]

^ Ti Cats stadium design for the Longwood/Aberdeen area.

[CaptainKirk]

^ Ti Cats stadium design for the Longwood/Aberdeen area.

Oh, ok. Yes, agree completely.

http://cfl.uploads.mrx.ca/league/images/en/newser/2010/11/Ticats_Stadium_Plans_2010_10905.jpg

http://www.sportsnet.ca/football/cfl/2010/11/10/ticats_stadium487_381.jpg

[pEte fiSt iN Ur fAce]

I hate that Tiger Town idea. It's not really much of an idea anyway: a stadium surrounded by parking.

In terms of cost, here's a little perspective. This is PPL Park near Philadelphia. It's ~20,000 seats and cost $120M (2008).

http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa121/the_dude1974/photo_pplpark_1.jpg

http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa121/the_dude1974/800px-PPL_Park_Interior.jpg

Our budget is about $150M, if I'm not mistaken, so there's no reason why we shouldn't get something as pretty as this.

[esquire]

What's the latest word on the project so far? Is construction set to begin after the 2012 football season?

[CaptainKirk]

What's the latest word on the project so far? Is construction set to begin after the 2012 football season?

Design build/team has yet to be chosen. The next few months should have a team in place.

Demolition of Ivor Wynne is slated to start as soon as this season ends with construction of the new stadium on the same site.

We still have no announcement yet on where they will play during construction.

[SteelTown]

The rendering for the stadium should be made public soon.

[CaptainKirk]

The rendering for the stadium should be made public soon.

Just the one? The winner?

Might we see all three?

[SteelTown]

I doubt we will get to see the others.

[SteelTown]

PUBLIC MEETING: The 2nd Public Mtg. re: Pan Am Stadium Precinct is this coming Tues., May 29, 7-9 PM, at Prince of Wales School.

[realcity]

This just opened in Houston on the eastern edge of downtown

The Compass Stadium
seats: 22,000
cost: $105 mil
construction time: 15 months

http://cdn2.sbnation.com/imported_assets/1033801/385691_10150616814356150_20105631149_9338047_689707090_n.jpg
http://cdn2.sbnation.com/imported_assets/1033804/305655_10150616814386150_20105631149_9338048_1535817946_n.jpg
http://populous.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/398844_10150641579556150_20105631149_9433030_1025427328_n-960x465.jpg
http://www.houstondynamo.com/sites/houston/files/Downtown.JPG
http://ww3.hdnux.com/photos/13/00/77/2887650/3/628x471.jpg
http://ww4.hdnux.com/photos/12/53/66/2801067/3/628x471.jpg

Most of the upper sections will have roof cover. Aside from Major League Soccer and international soccer matches, BBVA Compass Stadium will also host Texas Southern University football, concerts, boxing matches, and much more. With its downtown location, the new stadium will be a part of a true Stadium District, which already features Minute Maid Park and Toyota Center, as well as the George R. Brown Convention Center, Discovery Green, and The House of Blues.

We should at least get a stadium like this - minimum, we have $150 mil to spend - plus I await to hear plans for our "stadium district".

source: http://www.houstondynamo.com/stadium

[pEte fiSt iN Ur fAce]

For the money we're going to spend, I expect nothing less than what Houston has. Hamiltonians should have very high expectations for this stadium.

Here's yet another example: Home Depot Center in LA

http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa121/the_dude1974/HomeDepotCentre.jpg

http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa121/the_dude1974/HomeDepotCentre3.jpg

Completed in 2003. Seats 27,000. $150.000.000.

[Berklon]

This is Hamilton... the stadium will cost more and won't be as good as those other ones - I'm pretty sure of that. It'll be consistent with the stupidity of building it at the current IWS site.

I'm still hoping the plans for the stadium falls through - at least the plans they're moving forward with.

[realcity]

I can't wait until it shocks all the Stuart Street supporters, $150 mil will build an awesome stadium. Even the biggest haters and non-football fans will have to force themselves to go to at least one game to experience it.

Stuart Street would've been held up with the OMB for a decade. Look at the Setting Sail Plan as an example.

[Berklon]

I can't wait until it shocks all the Stuart Street supporters, $150 mil will build an awesome stadium. Even the biggest haters and non-football fans will have to force themselves to go to at least one game to experience it.

Stuart Street would've been held up with the OMB for a decade. Look at the Setting Sail Plan as an example.

It didn't have to be the West Harbour... just building at the current location is ridiculous. Look was IWS did for that area... amazing isn't it? (sarcasm).

The proposed LRT will stop right in front of the stadium... oh, not it wont.
At least the GO train will get people from outside of Hamilton to easily commute to the game - oh, that's right - the GO train won't even be close to it.
It's even a crappy for those who want the driveway-to-driveway experience.

This new stadium can be used for summer concerts... fantastic! Oh, it's in the middle of a scummy residential area - so much for that.

Yeah, building at the current site is a great idea. It does soooo much for this city. :rolleyes:

I'm not stepping foot inside the new stadium in that location, and the same goes for many people I know. They don't go there now, why would they with a new stadium?

[markbarbera]

No matter where the stadium was to be located, the fact remains the same. Stadiums simply are not effective catalysts for revitalization. Its current (and future) location proves this. The same would be true at any alternate location, which is why I am glad the Barton-Tiffany area's incredible potential was not squandered by plopping a stadium on top of it. Now that there's an OMB decison on Setting Sail, this area is on the verge of an incredible rennaisance.

[Berklon]

No matter where the stadium was to be located, the fact remains the same. Stadiums simply are not effective catalysts for revitalization.

Any way you slice it, the current location is terrible from a number of different angles.

Hope it and our inclusion in the Pan-am games falls through. Big waste of money.

[bluevue]

All that Glass on the Houston Stadium is fine...their climate and industry can handle it. Can you imagine what that would like like in a week in the east end with the industrial fallout...the glass would be black! We would need a major expense allocation each year to clean it once a week!

[markbarbera]

Any way you slice it, the current location is terrible from a number of different angles.

Hope it and our inclusion in the Pan-am games falls through. Big waste of money.

Don't misunderstand me, I am not saying the stadium is a bad thing. In fact, I think it is a vey good thing. It is a required utility for any city of our size, and our current stadium was in dire need of a major makeover or replacement.

As far as location goes, lets just say that this the best available option that all the parties involved could agree upon. The location debate is ancient history, time to move on in that regard.

Our involvement in Pan Am allows us to get a modern, state of the art replacement facility at the fraction of the cost the city would have had to pay if it had to replace it entirely on its own. As an added bonus, we get to host 48 games of top-calibre soccer.

[markbarbera]

All that Glass on the Houston Stadium is fine...their climate and industry can handle it. Can you imagine what that would like like in a week in the east end with the industrial fallout...the glass would be black! We would need a major expense allocation each year to clean it once a week!

Never mind the east end, have you noticed the sad state of the glass on the CIBC building downtown? I don't know about weekly cleanings, but regular cleaning of glass-clad structures is required in any city with heavy industry.

IMO glass should not be a primary structural feature on a stadium anyway. The bones need to look bold and solid - polished steel frame similar to the aluminum wrap being clad on London's Olympic stadium. Now that is impressive.

[pEte fiSt iN Ur fAce]

My apologies to Ward 3 residents but showcasing our city from IWS makes me a little uneasy.

I love the idea of hosting a big event and showing the world everything Hamilton has to offer. Holding all the football matches at the new stadium, however, doesn't accomplish that goal and will reinforce people's preconceived notions of this city.

Pan Am FAIL. City of Hamilton FAIL. Taxpayer FAIL. Ti-Cats FAIL. I'll end it there...

[CaptainKirk]

My apologies to Ward 3 residents but showcasing our city from IWS makes me a little uneasy.

I love the idea of hosting a big event and showing the world everything Hamilton has to offer. Holding all the football matches at the new stadium, however, doesn't accomplish that goal and will reinforce people's preconceived notions of this city.

Pan Am FAIL. City of Hamilton FAIL. Taxpayer FAIL. Ti-Cats FAIL. I'll end it there...

Couldn't have said it better!

[bigguy1231]

I can't wait until it shocks all the Stuart Street supporters, $150 mil will build an awesome stadium. Even the biggest haters and non-football fans will have to force themselves to go to at least one game to experience it.

Stuart Street would've been held up with the OMB for a decade. Look at the Setting Sail Plan as an example.

For $150 million with only 22,000 seats it better be an awesome stadium, but that still doesn't negate the fact it's in the worst possible location.

[Optimist]

Maybe I'm missing something. My wife and me love the location of IWS and both of us aren't from Hamilton originally. We park around Gage Park for the Cat games and picnic at the park looking at the escarpment, wonderful. Or park at Centre Mall before games and eat on Ottawa St. And take in some antique shops, or go for a walk first at Conf Park and easily drive along Burlington St., park around Centre Mall. Total win all the way plus love the fact the Future Fund money is going to a part of Hamilton for city building. Doesn't get much better in our opinion. Unfortunately not enough Hamiltonians appreciate their own city and what a great site IWS is and the opportunity of rebuilding there. We also love what Gary and Barbara have done with the Pearl Co., not trendy like James St. N or Locke but again we love going to concerts there.

As I say, maybe we haven't got the fail message and I hope we never do.

[pEte fiSt iN Ur fAce]

I appreciate your feelings. I truly do.

There are numerous wonderful things about Ward 3, some of which you mentioned. However, I'm not happy that the city will be showcased to the world from an area adjacent to Barton St overlooking our heavy industry. I'm not ashamed of either of those things [though perhaps I should be] but it's not what I would choose.

To be honest, I'd prefer IWS were left alone, or perhaps renovated in some small way. $150.000.000 is a lot of money and in no way shape or form is it a good investment. It's a great stadium in its own right. Many cite it as the best place to watch football and it's hard to disagree when sitting in the bleachers on a warm summer evening.

This new stadium is a disaster no matter how you spin it and unfortunately Ward 3 is getting undeserved flak and for that I'm sorry. Surely there are better uses for our Future Fund money. I can't see how it will benefit the area.

[Optimist]

I disagree with your assessment.and outlook, I think it's a wonderful investment for our city but to each his own. I'm sure the television cameras can show our beautiful waterfalls, trails and parks etc in publicity shots, as TSN does now for Cat games on national television.

[markbarbera]

Obviously a lot of the people in the GHA feel the IWS location is a huge fail and are voting with their feet, what with season ticket sales up by 3000 over last year...

For those who want to contribute positively to the development of the IWS precinct, Councillor Morelli is hosting an open house to gather ideas on what the precinct should look like when the new stadium has been built. The open house is tonight at 7pm at Prince of Wales School.

[BCTed]

I appreciate your feelings. I truly do.

There are numerous wonderful things about Ward 3, some of which you mentioned. However, I'm not happy that the city will be showcased to the world from an area adjacent to Barton St overlooking our heavy industry. I'm not ashamed of either of those things [though perhaps I should be] but it's not what I would choose.

To be honest, I'd prefer IWS were left alone, or perhaps renovated in some small way. $150.000.000 is a lot of money and in no way shape or form is it a good investment. It's a great stadium in its own right. Many cite it as the best place to watch football and it's hard to disagree when sitting in the bleachers on a warm summer evening.

This new stadium is a disaster no matter how you spin it and unfortunately Ward 3 is getting undeserved flak and for that I'm sorry. Surely there are better uses for our Future Fund money. I can't see how it will benefit the area.

- Nobody in the "world" will care about the stadium or where it is located. Very few people outside of Canada will ever take any notice.
- Ivor Wynne cannot hold on forever. Its state is probably a poorer reflection on the city than is its location.
- $150 million is a lot of money, but not for a professional football stadium.
- I still wish they would build the new stadium with more than 22,000 - 23,000 seats.

[durandy]

I think the stadium will be great. Downtown location that otherwise would be a brownfield. The only way to see it as a fail is if you're opposed to a stadium full stop - and that's a valid point. But that was never an arguable point. How many of the WH supporters really wanted to see football games? We were always going to have a stadium. So what should have been a debate about whether or not to waste public funds on football got Braleyized into an urban renewal argument between WH and EM - two straw men. And in the end we were back where we started and knew the place for the first time.

[pEte fiSt iN Ur fAce]

- $150 million is a lot of money, but not for a professional football stadium.

^Agreed but come on...$150M stadium for a team that doesn't even make any money? It's ludicrous and nearly impossible to rationalise.

[Optimist]

Well then pete, are you calling Fred Eisenberger an irrational man? Why would he have gone after the Pan Am Games and a stadium in the first place then if all of this was or is simply irrational as you seem to imply?

[pEte fiSt iN Ur fAce]

I'm a Fred fan - there's no doubt about it - but let's leave him out of it.

This isn't really about the Pan Am Games anymore: it's about the 'Kitty-Cats' threatening the City in return for a tax-payer funded stadium in the exact same location - that apparently didn't work before but now it's ok - with far fewer seats, minus Brian Timmis stadium.

Is that something you're comfortable with? Let's be honest now.

[bigguy1231]

Obviously a lot of the people in the GHA feel the IWS location is a huge fail and are voting with their feet, what with season ticket sales up by 3000 over last year...

For those who want to contribute positively to the development of the IWS precinct, Councillor Morelli is hosting an open house to gather ideas on what the precinct should look like when the new stadium has been built. The open house is tonight at 7pm at Prince of Wales School.

The cats can claim whatever they want. We will see once the games begin.

As for the stadium precinct, it's a joke. There will be nothing developed because the only way anything will happen is if the city finances it and we all know that will not happen with so many other priorities in this city. Councilors don't have the stomach to spent another dime on the Pan Am debacle.

[Optimist]

Hey Pete, I'm not leaving Fred out of it. If the "Kitty-Cats" are so unimportant as you seem to imply, I'm sure a smart man like Fred Eisenberger wouldn't have cared less about a new stadium in Hamilton or any "threats" from them to leave. Men like FE don't fail often, look at the position he is in now as head of the Canadian Urban Institute I belive it is.

The stadium is a wonderful opportunity for Hamilton and I love it that it will be smaller and more intimate. Look at the ACC with the Leafs, they could have built an arena that holds about 21,000 like Montreal or actually 25,000 or more but they went smaller, a bit more demand for tickets, a bit cozier feel. Right now Hamilton doesn't even have a sports facility as nice as the London Knights, an amateur team in the OHL where you have 37 corporate suites sold out for every game and each game sold out or close to at 9000. What does Copps have, like 6 suites or something? And IWS right now with wooden bench seats with splinters and magic markers, shown on national television where CFL games often outdraw even "major league" teams like the Raptors, really needs an entire makeover as it's doing.

Again, I'll repeat my wife and myself, not from Hamilton originally, have fallen in love with the area around IWS, a real "feel" to the area, love Gage Park before games, Ottawa St. N, going to Pearl Co. events a bit more west of the area etc where apparently it's all crack users although the 10 or so times we've been there, at night most of the time, we've never felt threatened at all going back to our cars. No more so that some of the burbs we've been in any city.

Those that think this is a huge 'fail', however that is defined, well, that is their right. I think it's more than a huge 'win', it's a fantastic win-win all the way and I love that the Future Fund money is going to a part of inner city Hamilton. I'm very excited and those that wish to harp the 'fail' song can keep doing so, I won't be joining you in the least.

[The_Architect]

The stadium is a wonderful opportunity for Hamilton and I love it that it will be smaller and more intimate. Look at the ACC with the Leafs, they could have built an arena that holds about 21,000 like Montreal or actually 25,000 or more but they went smaller, a bit more demand for tickets, a bit cozier feel. .

The reason the ACC is smaller rather than > 20,000 is because it was originally designed for the Raptors only, with the Leafs building their own arena somewhere else. Only after they started building it did the Leafs buy the Raptors and have them play there as well, forcing them to have to redesign the inside of the building to fit a hockey arena after construction already started, which is why it has such a small footprint in general. That coupled with the 40,000 private boxes they put in the arena is why it's a smaller capacity arena.

Your point about intimate venues still stands though, as I think the Argos would have much better attendance if they were in a 30,000 seat football stadium instead of playing inside the cavernous Skydome, which makes it look a lot emptier than it really is.

[Optimist]

Well certainly with the Rogers Centre, I don't find it very good from a spectator viewpoint for either football or baseball although it was designed first as a baseball facility I would say with the sloping of the seats in the first level. The old bowl design leaves fans too far away for either sport though, I certainly prefer IWS even as it is now for watching a game live rather the the RC.

[CaptainKirk]

I'm sure a smart man like Fred Eisenberger wouldn't have cared less about a new stadium in Hamilton or any "threats" from them to leave.

Come on Earl, he knew the threats were empty. The Tiger-Cats had no place to go. They were bluffing, plain and simple. Council let the city down.

And now, after all the contention, the current IWS site is now good enough for the Tiger-Cats to be financially sustainable?

So now none of the highway visibility, driveway to driveway, large parking lots are necessary after all? :shrug: Come on! :koko:

You're right. Fred is a smart man.

He was right all along.

[Optimist]

Sure the Cats might have been bluffing, I don't know, I wasn't involved so don't know except what might appear on the surface. This is one of the first times though Hamilton city council has had to deal with a TigerCats owner who actually has some money and smarts as well and is tough as nails. They weren't used to that, Fred certainly wasn't. When asked if he had a bad relationship with Fred, Scott Mitchell mentioned in the media no, in fact he had no relationship with him. That tells volumes. Fred should have known better but Fred wanted to bully the Cats and bully Scott Mitchell, himself a bully I'll admit. It was about egos here on both sides, powerful people. In the end, what was the truth? Who knows.

At any rate, as I say, I love the IWS regardless of the games that were played by the city, Cats etc. so I'm fine. At least the FF money is going to a part of Hamilton that can use it.

I do agree though that it would have been interesting if Fred was re-elected if he had of kept forcing the West Harbour what would have happened. My guess, the Cats would have gone there. Lots of bullying in this process. Who would have thought the Cats would have an owner who actually has some money in his pocket compared with many of the previous owners of the Cats who didn't have the resources of a Bob Young. I can understand why some people don't like him, a Cat owner with balls and some resources to back it up. Got under some peoples skins. I liked that. But unfortunately for Fred, and I do respect his smarts, it probably cost him the mayorship. Fight till the end sometimes is the way it goes with boys out there. I think both Fred and Bob Young learned something in this process with the difference being Fred was in a position to keep his position needing be reelected by the citizens. Bob Young, on the other hand, didn't and still doesn't have to worry about that, the only way people can vote agains't him if they don't like him is to bad mouth the team or him and not purchase tickets. And that is fine, he's a grown-up and can take it, as we know.

But I'm just a fan, thank goodness, who loves the Cats and IWS and it's location and don't really care much about other stuff in all of this politics about stadiums etc, just like going to the games with my wife and watching Canadian football on television. I'm a simple man, which has it's merits at times! ;)

[CaptainKirk]

But I'm just a fan, thank goodness, who loves the Cats and IWS and it's location and don't really care much about other stuff in all of this politics about stadiums etc, just like going to the games with my wife and watching Canadian football on television. I'm a simple man, which has it's merits at times! ;)


But I'm more than just a fan, thank goodness, who loves the city and the Cats and really do care much about other stuff in all of this city building and stadiums etc, just like going all over the city, and especially a nice downtown and to the games with my friends and family and watching Canadian football on television. I'm a simple man, which has it's merits at times! ;)

[Optimist]

Good one Captain! :tup:

[markbarbera]

Former Mayor Eisenberger got three basic things wrong on the Pan American stadium file:

1. Repeatedly putting up roadblocks to having a fair and objective study of all potential site locations thereby preventing suitable locations from being considered from day one

2. Promoting the wrong-headed notion that WH lands needed a publicly funded mega-project because it will be too expensive for private sector redevelopment

3. Misreading a vocal WH lobby effort to have city-wide support, and using the debate as a wedge issue in an attempt to prop up his re-election bid. Eisenberger ended up finishing a distant third in that mayoral race.

[mattgrande]

2. Promoting the wrong-headed notion that WH lands needed a publicly funded mega-project because it will be too expensive for private sector redevelopment


I think time will tell to see if he's wrong on this front. I think we're a long way off from having private funds redevelop that land.

I tell you what, if there's something being built on that Barton/Tiffany/Stuart block in the next ten years, I'll buy you a beer! :cheers:

[Optimist]

I certainly have nothing agains't the WH for a stadium, it's simply that it wasn't a big issue for me since the current IWS is fine for me and closer for me since I live in the Red Hill area. My wife and myself go for walks at WH now and enjoy it for peaceful walks. I can appreciate some people who are into going out after games to bars or restaurants on James St. N or Queen St. would have preferred a WH site since they could walk there. For us, my wife and myself, that's not an issue since we generally go back home after games so where the stadium is located isn't a big issue. Either the current IWS location or WH would have been an appropriate use of the FF money I think and I believe this is what the FF committee, if that's the word, approved of for use of the funds.

What I don't understand is how the cost of soil remediation at the Rheem site has been pegged at some $3 - $30 mill I think I was reading. That seems like a very wide range. And it probably scares off people who may wish to develop there. Hopefully this can be pinpointed more accurately so people know what they are getting into for development of these lands.

[bigguy1231]

Former Mayor Eisenberger got three basic things wrong on the Pan American stadium file:

1. Repeatedly putting up roadblocks to having a fair and objective study of all potential site locations thereby preventing suitable locations from being considered from day one

2. Promoting the wrong-headed notion that WH lands needed a publicly funded mega-project because it will be too expensive for private sector redevelopment

3. Misreading a vocal WH lobby effort to have city-wide support, and using the debate as a wedge issue in an attempt to prop up his re-election bid. Eisenberger ended up finishing a distant third in that mayoral race.

First of all he didn't put up any roadblocks. Council as a whole made decisions and followed the required procedures. Other sites were fully studied and deemed unacceptable. The process had been going on for years.

As for the lands not needing public funding to be developed, I have to agree with mattgrande on this one. Those lands will still be vacant 10 years from now. The setting sail crap that the city and the Ninny's are banking on will be a failure for the same reason all city plans for the area have been a failure. No money, and no private investors willing to be told how to spend their money.

The WH support was real as shown by the polls at the time.

[flar]

Private developers would be all over that WH land, just as soon as somebody spends untold millions to clean it up, and that ugly train yard separating it from the water is moved.

[SteelTown]

The request for proposals stage has closed for short-listed companies to submit bids to design, construct and provide construction term financing for Toronto 2015 Pan/Parapan American Games venues.

The successful project team will be selected and announced in late summer 2012.

[mattgrande]

Does that mean the bidding is closed for all venues? Did they ever find a location for baseball/softball?

[markbarbera]

I don't think it has been finalized, but it looks like it is headed for Brampton. Their council has reopened exploring the opportunity and looks to have private companies lined up to help with funding. Vision is to have multipurpose facility to host cricket and baseball post Pan Am.

[bigguy1231]

Private developers would be all over that WH land, just as soon as somebody spends untold millions to clean it up, and that ugly train yard separating it from the water is moved.

In that case I would agree. Unfortunately the rail yards aren't going anywhere soon. So there is going to be some open space there for awhile.

[SteelTown]

Bratina is working to relocate that yard elsewhere in Hamilton.

[mattgrande]

I can't imagine where... Kennilworth/Parkdale area, maybe? There's already a small yard there. In a field near Hopkins Survey?

[CaptainKirk]

I can't imagine where... Kennilworth/Parkdale area, maybe? There's already a small yard there. In a field near Hopkins Survey?

Mayor Bratina had mentioned the old Waxman's site at Centennial and South Service rd, but council voted to change the zoning from industrial to commercial so that WalMart could go in there instead. :shrug:

[SteelTown]

Think Bratina is looking at a site near Grimsby.

[pEte fiSt iN Ur fAce]

That would be amazing!

If he can pull that off I might vote for him 2014. That alone would be worth another term.

[SteelTown]

Ivor Wynne Stadium project secret until September

http://www.hamiltonnews.com/news/ivor-wynne-stadium-project-secret-until-september/

Hamilton residents won’t know the cost nor the design of the new Ivor Wynne Stadium until at least late September.

The request for proposals for the stadium, velodrome, and the new athletics stadium at York University for the 2015 Pan Am Games closed last week, and provincial and Toronto 2015 officials are reviewing the projects’ designs, and costs applications over the next two months. A preferred company, and design, will be selected in August, said officials. But the winning bid, and cost of the project, won’t be revealed until Sept. 26 when the company, cost and design of the new stadium will be released to the public. City staff added that only the winning bid will be available to the public, and the other two bids will be kept secret.

“It’s very difficult being left in the dark,” said Councillor Bernie Morelli, who represents the area where Ivor Wynne Stadium is located.

Added Ancaster councillor Lloyd Ferguson, chair of the Pan Am Stadium sub-committee: “We don’t have enough information,” said Ferguson. “I’m very uncomfortably with the secrecy.”

City staff, though, are privy to some budget, design, and cost information from the proponents, but they are required to keep the information from the public because they signed a confidentiality agreement insisted by the province. Representatives from Infrastructure Ontario were asked to appear before the committee May 28, but Ferguson said they declined the invitation.

Gerry Davis, general manager of public works, said city staff is obligated to operate under the secretive restrictions. But he assured Ferguson that they are protecting Hamilton’s interests.

“I understand your frustrations,” said Davis. “We are not sitting back. We are poking holes. There are still unanswered questions. Questions like, can we afford it?”

Hamilton council established a $45 million budget ceiling for the stadium. If the project’s design’s costs are higher than the city’s contribution, politicians will have to re-consider the city’s contribution to the stadium.

Tony Tollis, the city’s treasurer, said the new stadium needs to meet three priorities: the use of the stadium; the proposed design, and the city and province’s final budget.

The prequalified three firms that have submitted bids are consortiums composed of national and internal companies. They are Bird Turner Stadium Company, Ontario Sports Solutions and United Sports.

Construction on the new stadium isn’t scheduled to begin until Dec. 2, 2012, with a substantial completion of the project expected by July 1, 2014.

[thistleclub]

So you were involved in months of negotiations and everything was rolling along smoothly, and you had nary a hint of any qualms from your bargaining partner until one day they dropped a bombshell and your plans went up in smoke? And yet the only irony Mr. Mitchell detects is related to the business dealings of Bob Young's MRX and the Vanier Cup? Too rich.


*

McMaster sacks Ticats’ 2013 games plan (http://www.thespec.com/NEWS/article/739675)
 
June 8, 2012 04:06:00
 
In a move that has stunned the entire Hamilton football community, McMaster University has told the Tiger-Cats that they cannot play any part of their 2013 season at the university’s Ron Joyce Stadium.

For at least six months the CFL franchise and the university, which has come to be known for its own football team, have been discussing the Ticats using Ron Joyce Stadium for at least four games next July and August while the new Pan Am Games stadium is being constructed on the site of the franchise’s current home at Ivor Wynne Stadium.

The Ticats were planning to front-end their 2013 schedule with home games so that as many as five could be played on the Mac campus before Labour Day weekend when the bulk of students return for the school year.

But at 1 p.m. Thursday, Mac athletic director Jeff Giles, himself a former executive in the Canadian Football League, called the Ticats to say there would be no deal of any kind.

“We’d been meeting for six months and had got down to a lot of the finer details,” said a clearly miffed Scott Mitchell, the Ticats president. “And we’d had no negative feedback at all.”

“I guess we’re very disappointed in the way the news was delivered. It had all been positive and then to be given the final decision in a call, without any discussion beforehand,” Mitchell said. “And they had been planning to issue a press release right away.”

Having a good relationship with the CFL team is important to the university, said Andrea Farquhar, McMaster’s assistant vice-president for public and government relations.

But after consultation with stakeholders, including students, neighbours and Hamilton Health Sciences, the university decided that having Ron Joyce Stadium host Ticats games wasn’t feasible. Chief among the concerns raised, Farquhar said, was traffic congestion and the possibility that patient and ambulance access to the hospital could be impeded.

The impact on the more than 10,000 students attending summer classes and noise from game day activities in a residential area were also factors, Farquhar said. She noted to increase seating capacity to 15,000 from 5,500 would have involved temporary stands on three sides of Ron Joyce Stadium and the closure of Michell Crescent for three months.

The Ticats are renting several Mac facilities including residence rooms and the stadium for their training camp and have been doing so annually since Bob Young bought the team for the 2004 season. It’s estimated the Cats pay Mac about $200,000 during each training camp.

The Ticats had other possibilities for the 2013 games that will now be Mac-less, and it appears the University of Western Ontario will be the beneficiary. The Labour Day game is likely to be at Rogers Centre in Toronto but most of the other games could now go to Western, although Moncton has a greater chance.

Terese Quigley, the former athletics director at Mac, is now athletics director at Western. And the Western Mustangs’ head coach Greg Marshall also coached at Mac and was Young’s first coach with the Ticats. Both have strong relationships with the Tiger-Cats and each is a huge supporter of the team playing there.

“We’ll be fine,” Mitchell said. “I quite like what this will turn into next year. “We were under no illusion whatsoever that Mac had any obligation to host games. But we’ve been trying for the sake of our Hamilton-based fans to keep as many games as possible in Hamilton and Mac would be perfect for that. Our regional fans will be OK, but this will be hard on those who live in Hamilton and can’t get around as easily. We’ll try to keep the games as close to Hamilton as possible.”

That could include places such as Waterloo and Guelph, but bet on most of the games going to London, where the stadium is slightly removed from the main campus.

On Grey Cup weekend in Vancouver last November, the McMaster Marauders, behind quarterback Kyle Quinlan, upset Laval for their first Vanier Cup.

“I find it ironic that it was MRX (a holding company that plans the Vanier Cup and also owns the Ticats) paired the Vanier Cup and Grey Cup together and Mac seemed to be having a pretty great time at that,” Mitchell said.

[matt602]

There's some tasty karma right there.

[bigguy1231]

What's the old saying? Karma's a bitch.

[pEte fiSt iN Ur fAce]

The irony is delicious.

[Jon Dalton]

As funny as this is, it's a double screw for Hamilton and our Tiger Cat fans. We won't be able to go to games in our city and we will lose whatever economic benefits they have to London. It's a lose / lose.

I do respect Mac's decision however. I was at the campus the other day and rode by the stadium and tried to imagine 30,000 football fans squeezing in there. Parking would be easy though, with all the lots on the other side of Cootes and the shuttle buses.

I just hope the City does not have to take the financial wallop over this.

[pEte fiSt iN Ur fAce]

That's a valid point, though it's always been my impression that professional sports teams are a financial burden on communities. Doesn't the City subsidize the Ti-Cats? Some bars and restaurants might take a bit of a hit I suppose...

[markbarbera]

That's a valid point, though it's always been my impression that professional sports teams are a financial burden on communities. Doesn't the City subsidize the Ti-Cats? Some bars and restaurants might take a bit of a hit I suppose...

The economic activity generated by the team was well documented during the protracted location discussions last year, and they significantly outweighs any of the subsidies delivered to The Ticats to assist in operating out of the outdated facilities at Ivor Wynne, and they end when the new facility opens.

[urban_planner]

I can see the headlines now

Do to incredible fan support in the 2013 season the Hamilton Tiger cats are being relocated to London Ontario.

That would go over really well!

[pEte fiSt iN Ur fAce]

The economic activity generated by the team was well documented during the protracted location discussions last year, and they significantly outweighs any of the subsidies delivered to The Ticats to assist in operating out of the outdated facilities at Ivor Wynne, and they end when the new facility opens.

How about the $150M in public monies for this stadium? Taken that into account have you?

[markbarbera]

To suggest the stadium construction cost is simply another handout to the Ticats is completely disingenuous. The $150 million is for a stadium that is the property of the City of Hamilton. The Ticats may be the principal tenant in a facility owned by the city, but the building will be ours, not theirs.

Many civic events have been hosted in this facility, from high school sports to religious festivals (Feast of St. Anthony is being held there this Sunday) . The city is the beneficiary of over $100 million of higher-level government funding so that the city can replace the aging stadium and continue to have such a facility available for use and enjoyment by its citizens. With a modern facility, many more types of events can be hosted here, further enriching the civic community.

[pEte fiSt iN Ur fAce]

Well played, Barbera but this is yet another massive public handout to a professional sports franchise. Full stop. Those other parties don't need a $150M stadium to host their events. And even if they did, I wouldn't support that either.

[realcity]

The Cats pay rent just like anyone who wants to use the stadium. I think around $250,000 every game the Cats pay the city.

This is a $100mil investment from higher levels of government to a civic owned building that enhances the city on many levels. It's our stadium, just like the libraries, public pools, roads. And if it gets built first class, like I think it will, it will be a good revenue stream for the City.


Stuart/Tiffany well know that we own that toxic dump that no one is interested in because it's surrounded by NIMBYs and a rail yard, it no longer brings in taxes and costs us money in maintenance. Thanks to Fred jumping the gun on land acquisition.

[realcity]

Just can't wait until all the WH supporters see something like this in Ward 3.
http://cdn2.sbnation.com/imported_assets/1033804/305655_10150616814386150_20105631149_9338048_1535817946_n.jpg

[Jon Dalton]

Just can't wait until all the WH Maniacs when they see something like this in Ward 3.
http://cdn2.sbnation.com/imported_assets/1033804/305655_10150616814386150_20105631149_9338048_1535817946_n.jpg

That looks awful.

[mattgrande]

Just can't wait until all the WH Maniacs when they see something like this in Ward 3.
http://cdn2.sbnation.com/imported_assets/1033804/305655_10150616814386150_20105631149_9338048_1535817946_n.jpg

My objections to the Ivor Wynne location have absolutely nothing to do with the design of the stadium.

(That's Houston's new stadium, right? I like it... Hopefully we can get something that nice here.)

[LikeHamilton]

New stadium will be ready in 2014

Rick Zamperin 900CHML.com 06/25/2012

A city councillor believes Hamilton's Pan Am Stadium will be ready for the start of the 2014 Ticats season.

Lloyd Ferguson told CHML's Bill Kelly Show, a labour dispute would be the only thing that would stop the winning bidder from finishing the project on time.

A technical evaluation of each bid is currently being conducted before financial evaluations are done in August.

Ferguson says the winning bid will be selected in late September.

The plan is to demolish Ivor Wynne Stadium following the CFL's East Division Final in November.

He says the target date to complete the Pan Am Stadium is July 1st 2014.

The Blue Bombers new stadium in Winnipeg was scheduled to open this month, but construction has been plagued by weather delays.

The Bombers stadium is now slated to open next year.

[pEte fiSt iN Ur fAce]

That seems really ambitious. Investors Group Field [Winnipeg] broke ground in the Spring of 2010 and, as stated in the article, won't be ready until next year. The timeline for Pan Am stadium is pretty tight indeed.

[mattgrande]

I believe we have from November 2012 until end of June 2014, right? That's 19 months

Compare to in the MLS:
BBVA Compass Stadium - 15 months
Livestrong Sporting Park - 19 months
PPL Park - 18 months
BMO Field - 13 months
Red Bull Arena - 42 months
Rio Tinto Stadium - 26 months

I have no idea why those last two took so long.

[realcity]

^ Compass Stadium truly is remarkable in that time frame.

BMO is nothing but bleachers it should've taken 2 months. The whole stadium feels like temporary seating.

But I'd like if we got a Rio Tinto or Red Bull. This is not going to be managed by Hamilton. The best way to stay on budget and on time (other than getting Lloyd Ferguson involved) is to keep the City of Hamilton and NIMBYs and haters out of it. One of the three bidders built Compass, let's hope they win.

[realcity]

And how many months would it take to clean all the toxic Barton/Tiffany soil? Before they even started building a WH Stadium it would've costed $20 million and 10 months. With the time and money leftover a WH stadium wouldn't even be a BMo Field.... IF it even got through a OMB. Look how long it took to pass the watered down Setting Sail plan! One single 8-story building??? And people thought a ten-story, 25-30k stadium would've got approved.

Now what I heard, 3 stadium plans have been proposed and have blown away anyone who saw them. "Any one of the proposed stadiums will make Hamilton proud". Too bad for all the Barton/Tiffany/Railyard/swampland lovers who want to hate the stadium and Ticats because it's being built east of James.

[Berklon]

You're fixated on the WH thing, when it wasn't the only location suggested to be better than the dump it's currently in/going to. Sounds like you're over-compensating by suggesting the IWS location is good, when in fact it's terrible.

It's hilarious that while this mistake is being built, the Ticats have no place to play in Hamilton. Talk about a bad decision. :haha:

I hope they cancel this thing. Waste of time and money.

[matt602]

Sounds like a horse being beaten that's not just dead but rotted in the ground by now. Give it a rest already, it's over and done with.

[pEte fiSt iN Ur fAce]

^Pwned!

[SteelTown]

City wants to negotiate with the School Board for the Prince of Wales School land...

http://www.hamilton.ca/NR/rdonlyres/2A81237B-9376-4894-BAAA-5FE9A07EF0D8/0/Jul09EDRMS_n327440_v1_8_6__PW12055.pdf

[CaptainKirk]

City wants to negotiate with the School Board for the Prince of Wales School land...

http://www.hamilton.ca/NR/rdonlyres/2A81237B-9376-4894-BAAA-5FE9A07EF0D8/0/Jul09EDRMS_n327440_v1_8_6__PW12055.pdf

Appears to be just a formality

The Hamilton-Wentworth District School Board has agreed to transfer ownership of a parking lot by Ivor Wynne Stadium to the city to allow for construction of a new Pan Am Games stadium on a north-south axis.
Trustees emerged from a closed-door session on Monday to direct staff to enter into negotiations to hand over the 0.9-acre lot, located at the northeast corner of Melrose Avenue North and Cannon Street East.
In return, the city is being asked to provide an equivalent number of parking spots to the board at the Pan Am site “in perpetuity” once the stadium is built.

http://www.hamiltonnews.com/uncategorized/board-land-deal-paves-way-for-north-south-pan-am-stadium/

[LikeHamilton]

It’s official: Ivor Wynne will spin

The city has inadvertently confirmed a plan to rebuild Ivor Wynne Stadium along north-south lines.

Infrastructure Ontario, the project manager for new Pan Am Games venues, has steadfastly refused to confirm the long-rumoured, 90-degree stadium swivel — or any other design details other than the 22,500-seat capacity — citing the need to protect competitive bidding.

City and Hamilton Tiger-Cats officials have also declined to discuss stadium design because of confidentiality agreements with the province.

But a new city report headed to committee Monday officially lets the Ticat stadium orientation out of the bag. The report recommends the city obtain a public school parking lot south of Ivor Wynne because “the proposed stadium design would have the new west stands encroaching on to (school board) lands.”

http://www.thespec.com/print/article/755854

[coalminecanary]

This stadium is going to be a total disaster.

I inadvertently tried to drive home (to downtown) from the east end on the evening of the first game and I happened to pass through while the fans were leaving. What a mess. Every single westbound lane of every street was backed up. It took me over an hour to get from Ottawa street to Wellington, and even the side streets were rammed - with taxi cabs tearing up and down the north/south residential streets trying to get around the lunacy.

I don't blame the road design. I don't blame the people. I don't blame the stadium - I don't even blame the location of IWS to be honest (although it's certainly not ideal).

I blame a complete lack of reasonable alternative transportation options.

If we really think we are going to get away with increasing the capacity of this thing - and adding parking to encourage MORE driving - without first putting some sort of transit in which is separated from traffic, we are going to be the laughing stock of the country. And when pan am hits us we'll be a thorn in the side of every single participant and spectator for the events held here.

We are setting ourselves up for a huge embarrassment here. What a waste of time, money and energy.

[Jon Dalton]

Just curious, did you try taking Burlington street? I always use it to get from downtown to the east end when I'm in a car. It's fast and I'm happier knowing I'm not contributing to dangerous traffic along Main or King, where it is hard not to drive 60. I wonder how many drivers even realize that Burlington St. is an option when they bitch about complete streets.

[coalminecanary]

Unfortunately I was already in the thick of it before I realized what was going on. I ended up going south on a side street to cumberland which was still busy but without all the crazy lane changes and lunacy of multiple lanes and turns, it was at least steady.

The main point is that even though people flock in great numbers for events where beer is a main attraction, they HAVE to drive even if they don't want to because we have no alternative other than extra buses - which are even slower than driving.

If we were willing to give up ONE lane east and west for rail transit, nobody would have to suffer through that mess if they didn't want to.

If we really plan to increase the capacity of that stadium as well as ramp up the number of events, we will have no choice but to solve the transit issue eventually.

If we weren't so back-asswards we'd do the transit FIRST.

[bigguy1231]

If we really think we are going to get away with increasing the capacity of this thing - and adding parking to encourage MORE driving - without first putting some sort of transit in which is separated from traffic, we are going to be the laughing stock of the country. And when pan am hits us we'll be a thorn in the side of every single participant and spectator for the events held here.

We are setting ourselves up for a huge embarrassment here. What a waste of time, money and energy.

Don't know where you got the idea they were increasing capacity. The new stadium is going to have 7000 fewer seats. The traffic will be proportionally less.

[coalminecanary]

I thought the whole point of this from the very start was that a bigger stadium was needed!

[matt602]

I think we all knew a bigger stadium just isn't possible on that small parcel of land. Not with all the parking and offices that the Ti-Cats want to build as well. If the stadium at least has a decent, high-quality build I will be satisfied with the whole thing but so far I'm incredibly unimpressed.

[coalminecanary]

We should be building an LRT link in time for Pan Am from mac to hunter GO to IWS so that we don't look like total fools to anyone who comes to town and realizes they have no choice but to drive to the events and park on peoples' lawns.

[Berklon]

We should be building an LRT link in time for Pan Am from mac to hunter GO to IWS so that we don't look like total fools to anyone who comes to town and realizes they have no choice but to drive to the events and park on peoples' lawns.

LRT is too far off - it wouldn't even come close to making it in time for Pan-Am. It's even doubtful LRT will happen at all - and with the lack of synergistic planning in this city (ie. stadium location) LRT shouldn't happen.

People from Burlington, Oakville and Toronto will be driving to the stadium and parking on lawns. It'll be a traffic nightmare. It'll be embarrassing.

[matt602]

Definitely. This whole Pan-Am thing is a joke anyway though, so it's not like Hamilton will be the only embarrassment.

[Berklon]

Definitely. This whole Pan-Am thing is a joke anyway though, so it's not like Hamilton will be the only embarrassment.

That's the only positive I can think of, the brunt of the finger-pointing and embarrassment will be directed towards Toronto.

Someone on another forum from Toronto described the Pan-Am games nicely (paraphrasing):

Almost the same cost as the Olympics, with none of the prestige or economic upside.

[mattgrande]

People from Burlington, Oakville and Toronto will be driving to the stadium and parking on lawns. It'll be a traffic nightmare. It'll be embarrassing.

The assumption that you're making is that people will actually be coming. The Pan-Am games aren't exactly a huge draw.

[Berklon]

The assumption that you're making is that people will actually be coming. The Pan-Am games aren't exactly a huge draw.

:haha: Well I'm not going to argue that point.

I couldn't name you an athlete at the last Pan-Am games... or any Pan-Am games in history for that matter. I'm not sure I know what city hosted the last time.

[pEte fiSt iN Ur fAce]

^Guadalajara, Mexico. ;)

In terms of the raw number of athletes taking part, it's a pretty big deal, on par with the Commonwealth Games.

Delhi 2010 ~ 6700 athletes.
Guadalajara 2011 ~ 6000.
Beijing 2008 ~ 11000.

It's true, though, that it's not much of a spectator sport, at least in terms of television.

I supported the games at the beginning because I saw it as a great way (i.e. the ONLY way) to upgrade our athletic facilities: pools, running tracks / soccer fields, velodrome, stadium etc. It was also my hope, and many others as well, that we might be able to sneak in some infrastructure improvements as well (LRT) and maybe even develop a brownfield or two.

However, up to now, more damage than good has come from the games. My support is definitely off the table at this point.