[rocketphish]

While this proposal is certainly not new, and has been mentioned before on this site, it is now looming on the horizon thanks to federal stimulus funding, and so should probably have it's own thread for further discussions.

One thing I find most interesting is how this is being positioned as a "parkway".

Innes - Walkley - Hunt Club Connection Environmental Assessment Study Recommendations:
http://www.ottawa.ca/calendar/ottawa/citycouncil/occ/2007/12-07/trc/ACS2007-PTE-POL-0070.htm

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2598/4090858909_fd45422d2d_o_d.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2665/4090859023_1b6252e47f_o_d.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2520/4090859185_408de2d241_o_d.jpg

[lrt's friend]

I find it ironic how we can afford to spend a fortune on this when there was originally a plan to build rapid transit more or less following existing rail lines serving this same corridor. I travelled in this area today, and noted a sign for a major development at the corner of Walkley and Russell Road, which was a proposed rapid transit station location. Another opportunity lost and another victory of cars over transit.

[Kitchissippi]

What is really ridiculous is the last diagram in that link, Document 8(b), which seems to show that the overpass over the 417 would need to be replaced for Phase 2!

[Ottawan]

As someone who grew up in the south-east part of Ottawa, Phase I of the plan is sorely needed and overdue. While the parkway concept certainly seems picturesque, from a practical perspective it really seems to just be duplicating the 417 at a great cost. If I need to go to Innes from Hunt Club after phase I is built, I'll take the 417 up two fairly quick exits, and come out on Innes only 1 - 2 kilometers further west.

Additionally, in earlier versions of this corridor available on the City website, the road was to connect directly to Blair. This would have been much more convenient for any northbound traffic, and I don't understand the realignment.

The ideal solution to me would be to build an extended phase one, which would create the interchange between Hunt Club and the 417, and then continue just a bit further to connect to Ramsayville just south of the CN tracks. That would be where the connection ends, and phase II would be unneccessary. When and if traffic on the 417 gets heavy enough, the province could widen it to six lanes.

[Kitchissippi]

If a "parkway" is what is desired, it would be better to restyle Anderson Road into a 2-lane parkway, maybe by adding some scenic curves and landscaping as it goes up and down the drumlins by Mer Bleue. I think the NCC intended something here to connect to the Rockcliffe Driveway at one point and it could very well do that.

If Lester/Davidson/Whyte Side were treated in a similar fashion, a 2-lane scenic route could continue westward to the Airport as well without technically adding another new road.

[eternallyme]

The project should be cancelled as it is unnecessary network duplication. Instead, although it would be an MTO project, Highway 417 in the area should be widened to 6 lanes. (Traffic counts currently warrant 6 lanes on Highway 417 to Walkley, and will by 2020 warrant 6 lanes to at least Anderson Road.) There are much better uses for city transportation money. (Phase 1 of Hunt Club should definitely go ahead though)

As for a transit project in the area, the ridership potential isn't great - and express buses would also work along Highway 417 and Innes Road (may require bus lanes there). I'd scrap the entire Phase 2 corridor and say "Do Nothing", while requesting a widened 417 from the MTO.

[Dado]

The proof of this not being a "parkway" is the inclusion of an overpass of the VIA (not CN) tracks (CN sold them to VIA; at the moment CN retains freight running rights over the tracks but not ownership). If it's a parkway designed for leisurely jaunts through the Greenbelt, then why have an overpass? Surely people out on a leisurely drive can wait a few seconds for a train to go by.

In Phase I there's also apparently no connection to Russell Road.

I agree that Phase I should just be extended to Ramsayville Road and leave it be after that.


As an aside, if you look at Google Earth you'll notice something odd in this area: the 417 crosses the former Ottawa & New York Rwy line at about the same place it crosses the Alexandria Subdivision and then it crosses it again just east of its crossing of Ramsayville Road, and for no apparent reason. It looks like whoever laid out the 417 through here was a tad tipsy at the time. They could have just threaded it between the two rail corridors in an alignment more-or-less parallel to the former Ottawa & New York. They also did a number on Russell Road (you can just see vestiges of where it used to go) - the 417 RoW adds something like a kilometre and a third to the former route.

http://maps.google.ca/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&q=Ottawa&ie=UTF8&om=1&hq=&hnear=Ottawa,+Ottawa+Division,+Ontario&ll=45.380548,-75.569286&spn=0.045215,0.077162&t=h&z=14

[alphachapmtl]

Anything new?
I noticed work has started on Hunt Club near Hawthorne Rd.

[MaxHeadroom]

Anything new?
I noticed work has started on Hunt Club near Hawthorne Rd.
The city is using federal stimulus funding to work on their share of the project, from Hawthorne to Russell Rd. Tomlinson has the contract. Sunday, I saw evidence of some earth work in the distance beyond the bus turnaround where Hunt Club now ends.

The funny thing is, the project has to be finished by March 31 2011 to qualify for the stimulus funding. I don't see a problem with that schedule, but the province's construction portion of the project, the interchange with the 417 and associated roadway as far as Russell Road, has not been funded. The province has funded the design of the interchange but nothing more. The City and Province agreed to this split of responsibility, but the City got tired of waiting and went ahead with the project despite the province dragging its heels.

So will we end up with a road that goes nowhere, since the new roadway is supposed to overpass Russell Road? Could be a very embarrassing situation for the provincial government.

[eternallyme]

The city is using federal stimulus funding to work on their share of the project, from Hawthorne to Russell Rd. Tomlinson has the contract. Sunday, I saw evidence of some earth work in the distance beyond the bus turnaround where Hunt Club now ends.

The funny thing is, the project has to be finished by March 31 2011 to qualify for the stimulus funding. I don't see a problem with that schedule, but the province's construction portion of the project, the interchange with the 417 and associated roadway as far as Russell Road, has not been funded. The province has funded the design of the interchange but nothing more. The City and Province agreed to this split of responsibility, but the City got tired of waiting and went ahead with the project despite the province dragging its heels.

So will we end up with a road that goes nowhere, since the new roadway is supposed to overpass Russell Road? Could be a very embarrassing situation for the provincial government.

Again, what they need to do is cancel the project. The Hunt Club extension and 417 interchange is badly needed, but the north-south segment is extremely wasteful. The MTO should just step in and widen the 417 to 6 lanes.

[Uhuniau]

NAFP?

(Not Another F***ing Parkway?)

[bradnixon]

Again, what they need to do is cancel the project. The Hunt Club extension and 417 interchange is badly needed, but the north-south segment is extremely wasteful. The MTO should just step in and widen the 417 to 6 lanes.

The only project underway right now is the part that you say is badly needed, so I don't see the logic of cancelling it.

The 417-Innes section is not on anyone's radar right now- it's years away.

[lrt's friend]

If we really are serious about transit we should be connecting the Innes Road transit corridor with Walkley Road instead of building a semi-expressway next to the 417. That was the original plan.

[Uhuniau]

If we really are serious about transit we should be connecting the Innes Road transit corridor with Walkley Road instead of building a semi-expressway next to the 417. That was the original plan.

Dood, you know those expressways that are, like, double expressways?

[MaxHeadroom]

Went by the site again today. Unfortunately one can't see a whole lot from Hawthorne, but the road bed is beginning to take shape and they have some manholes going in. There was a lot more equipment on site, and also a crane on site in the distance.

[MaxHeadroom]

Looking at the site from the 417 and Russell Road, there is plenty of grading going on and the road base is starting to take shape. Trucks are constantly coming and going from the site, using Russell Road as access. I'm still not sure what is going to happen at Russell Road; if the roadway is going to overpass it or temporarily intersect until the 417 interchange is built.

[harls]

Yeah, I noticed they had done a lot of work on the road bed when I was on my way to Montreal one morning.. and this was back on the first weekend of July. (My vantage point was from the 417 travelling east just past the rail overpass).

[Aylmer]

WHY do we need this, again?

:???:

[DubberDom]

WHY do we need this, again?

:???:


Why??? Are you serious? Ever try to go from Hunt Club to 417? It will also significantly improve the access from Orleans/Blackburn to the south and airport

[lrt's friend]

WHY do we need this, again?

:???:

Just go to the intersection of Walkley and Russell Roads during the daytime. It is a bottleneck.

The Hunt Club extension will distribute this traffic onto two different roads and reduce the amount of left turns at the above intersection. The left hand turn lane from Walkley to Hawthorne/Russell has just been extended to almost two very long blocks. Too much traffic, not enough road capacity.

[Dado]

This really should have been done as part of building Hunt Club in the first place, so I don't have any objection to it. That said, the fault for the fact that it needs to be built at all can be better dumped on the MTO's doorstep. If there had been an interchange at Russell/Ramsayville rather than at Anderson, Hunt Club could have just been extended to Russell and we wouldn't need to add an extra interchange. The Anderson interchange really doesn't seem to have any purpose at all except to fill up space since there is virtually nothing in any direction for it to serve. A few people from Carlsbad Springs might use it but I suspect most use the Boundary Rd interchange (they would have been better off with an interchange at 8th Line or even Leitrim). Even with the way-distant future extension of Earl Armstrong Rd I doubt the Anderson interchange will be much used; a new interchange in the vicinity of 8th Line is more likely.

[waterloowarrior]

Here's the AADT from 2006 for the 417

Rockdale to Boundary (Embrun/Vars) - 28 100
Boundary to Anderson (Russell) - 33 800
Anderson to Walkley - 34 900
Walkley to Innes - 61 400

[waterloowarrior]

This really should have been done as part of building Hunt Club in the first place, so I don't have any objection to it. That said, the fault for the fact that it needs to be built at all can be better dumped on the MTO's doorstep. If there had been an interchange at Russell/Ramsayville rather than at Anderson, Hunt Club could have just been extended to Russell and we wouldn't need to add an extra interchange. The Anderson interchange really doesn't seem to have any purpose at all except to fill up space since there is virtually nothing in any direction for it to serve. A few people from Carlsbad Springs might use it but I suspect most use the Boundary Rd interchange (they would have been better off with an interchange at 8th Line or even Leitrim). Even with the way-distant future extension of Earl Armstrong Rd I doubt the Anderson interchange will be much used; a new interchange in the vicinity of 8th Line is more likely.

I found this Citizen article (http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=qscyAAAAIBAJ&sjid=ruwFAAAAIBAJ&dq=highway-417&pg=3309%2C3558974) from 1971 that called the 417 the "Ramsayville-Vars freeway" :D Unfortunately part of the text is wiped out so I don't know if it had any details on the route/interchange choice

[Proof Sheet]

I found this Citizen article (http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=qscyAAAAIBAJ&sjid=ruwFAAAAIBAJ&dq=highway-417&pg=3309%2C3558974) from 1971 that called the 417 the "Ramsayville-Vars freeway" :D Unfortunately part of the text is wiped out so I don't know if it had any details on the route/interchange choice

I love the text in the watch ad that is part of the link...aristocratic? hippie?

[lrt's friend]

This really should have been done as part of building Hunt Club in the first place, so I don't have any objection to it. That said, the fault for the fact that it needs to be built at all can be better dumped on the MTO's doorstep. If there had been an interchange at Russell/Ramsayville rather than at Anderson, Hunt Club could have just been extended to Russell and we wouldn't need to add an extra interchange. The Anderson interchange really doesn't seem to have any purpose at all except to fill up space since there is virtually nothing in any direction for it to serve. A few people from Carlsbad Springs might use it but I suspect most use the Boundary Rd interchange (they would have been better off with an interchange at 8th Line or even Leitrim). Even with the way-distant future extension of Earl Armstrong Rd I doubt the Anderson interchange will be much used; a new interchange in the vicinity of 8th Line is more likely.

I have to disagree on this. Anderson Road was the logical connection to both Gloucester North and Gloucester South. Going north, it is the only crossing through the Mer Bleue. This is the 417 exit I use the most often.

We also have to remember that in 1971 that Hunt Club Road was nothing more than a sleepy country road. East of Bank Street, it was a short dead end road and it didn't even directly run off of Bank. This was long before Hunt Club was envisioned as a major arterial.

I found this Citizen article from 1971 that called the 417 the "Ramsayville-Vars freeway" Unfortunately part of the text is wiped out so I don't know if it had any details on the route/interchange choice
Today 01:03 PM

This was the first part of today's 417 that opened. Too bad the digitization of the microfilm failed here. To see the full article would require access to the microfilm at the downtown library or the National Archives.

[Jasonhouse]

Updated thread title for ya. :)

[Davis137]

A new highway interchange at the also new Huntclub exension from Hawthorne will likely increase the traffic volumes seen on Hunt Club, but will be good for businesses in the area. It should also prove an additional selling point for houses in the interior of Southkeys/Greenboro if there is a closer highway access than Walkley...

[adam-machiavelli]

A new highway interchange at the also new Huntclub exension from Hawthorne will likely increase the traffic volumes seen on Hunt Club, but will be good for businesses in the area. It should also prove an additional selling point for houses in the interior of Southkeys/Greenboro if there is a closer highway access than Walkley...


Yay, sprawl!

[lrt's friend]

Yay, sprawl!

Wouldn't this qualify as intensification? After all, it is inside the Greenbelt.

[adam-machiavelli]

^^^
1. It's close to the freeway, thus increasing congestion, automobile reliance, and the political pressure to widen the freeway.

2. It's just houses so no it's not true intensification. True intensification is low and medium-rise condos and apartments and rowhousing.

[lrt's friend]

^^^
1. It's close to the freeway, thus increasing congestion, automobile reliance, and the political pressure to widen the freeway.

2. It's just houses so no it's not true intensification. True intensification is low and medium-rise condos and apartments and rowhousing.

Aren't we getting awfully restrictive in our definitions?

Every part of the city is close to some major roadway. For that matter, the Glebe is closer to the Queensway than Greenboro is to the 417.

As far as I am concerned, any measure that makes better use of land within the existing built up area is valid intensification.

How can additions to Greenboro be called sprawl when it has no room to expand beyond its existing boundaries? There is also a good stock of row housing and stacked townhouses within Greenboro. Just remember that Greenboro is built on swampland and is not suitable for multistorey development. I would rather see some infill there on underused land than forcing it out into Osgoode.

[Acajack]

The key is to have other uses (like commercial) mixed in with the residential.

There are plenty of mixed-density residential suburban areas out there with singles, rows and even apartments, but if they are still single use (residential) they aren't much better in terms of urban-style atmosphere than traditional tracts with mile upon mile of detached houses on wide lots.

[jitterbug]

I live in Greenboro, one block from Hunt Club Road. While I don't relish the prospect of heavier traffic, especially truck traffic, on Hunt Club, it's only logical that Hunt Club Road spans the full length between 416 in the west and 417 in the east, thereby finally completing the southern ring road. I don't see how such a connection will necessarily lead to more sprawl given that it's essentially inside the greenbelt.

[MaxHeadroom]

The area bounded by Hunt Club, Conroy, Leitrim, and 417 is all Greenbelt.

There is a new subdivision going in at Anderson and 8th Line, but I don't that in of itself is driven by the project.

[migo]

There is a new subdivision going in at Anderson and 8th Line...

Where did you get this info?

[eternallyme]

Where did you get this info?

Seems rather unlikely since that is not in the urban growth area. Unless it is a large rural/exurban development. One thing somewhat attractive is the proximity to a long-abandoned rail line that could be reinstalled to serve Russell and Embrun in a very long-term commuter rail scenario (I would think the VIA corridor line through Vars, Limoges and Casselman would be first though).

The Anderson Road interchange is fairly logical to me as there is not much else to serve the local area. It is more useful for sure for traffic coming to/from the west (commuters to Carlsbad Springs and southeast Gloucester) than from the east.

If there were no development controls there, I would think there would be a large number of commercial services such as fast-food restaurants at that interchange.

[RTWAP]

Yay, sprawl!

I disagree.

A Hunt Club interchange will allow for more effective travel between suburbs.

I think forcing suburb-to-suburb traffic to travel via the core is anti-intensification. In most modern two-income families it is hard to arrange to have both adults work in the same location. At least one person and perhaps both will need to commute some significant distance. If our road system only supports commuter traffic to and from downtown then we're reducing the likelihood that a general employment centre outside the downtown area will ever flourish.

I agree with the argument that we don't want to build freeways to serve those traffic flows. By the time demand is at those levels we should be serving it with relatively direct and rapid transit. But we need to encourage the creation of that demand growth in the first place if we're hoping to have a string of general employment centres throughout the region.

[DubberDom]

Where did you get this info?

I think he's referring to the adult-living bungalow community that i think Brigil built in that area.

[MaxHeadroom]

Where did you get this info?Umm, perhaps I happened to be driving by, and saw the signs and heavy equipment moving around on site?

I don't have any more details, but if I go by there again I'll at least get the developer's name.

[Acajack]

I think he's referring to the adult-living bungalow community that i think Brigil built in that area.

This it?
http://www.brigil.com/anderson/

[Ottawan]

This is the first line from the 'community' page of the website. I have not yet read further, but already my reaction can be summed up in one word: REALLY????

While your lifestyle is pure country, you are only 15 minutes from the downtown core of South Keys.

[migo]

Umm, perhaps I happened to be driving by, and saw the signs and heavy equipment moving around on site?

I don't have any more details, but if I go by there again I'll at least get the developer's name.

Ah yes, I can see why you might have thought that. I did too until I found out otherwise when my wife & I spoke to the Anderson Links golf course owner after a tasty brunch one Sunday morning; there is a rather large club house on site with a restaurant. He explained what was happening. The heavy equipment you're referring to is for the Anderson Links golf course expansion from 18 to 36 holes. I also asked him if he knows of any housing development plans that he might know of in the area, apart from Findley Creek. He patted me on the shoulders and said, "No, not for a while at least". The land on Anderson Rd, opposite the golf course is owned by the Province & (if I can remember, correct me if I'm wrong) leased to the Feds...some type of tree growing thing.

[MaxHeadroom]

I drove by the site via Russell Road yesterday. There is only preliminary grading for the Russell Road overpass completed; no forms or concrete even staked out yet. However, over the top of the hill, I could see that street lights have been installed.

[lrt's friend]

I drove by the Hawthorne Road end the other day and wondered if it was going to open soon. Paving had been completed as far as I could see.

[MaxHeadroom]

It's most likely going to be 2013 before this road sees any traffic since the entire thing has to be completed. AFAIK MTO hasn't even started design of the 417 interchange yet!

EDIT: at the very best, MTO could construct RIRO ramps to the eastbound lanes of the 417 right away.

It might see a bit of traffic if this development goes anywhere before the interchange is done: http://www.clvgroup.com/downloads/Hunt%20Club%20Hawthorne%20Phase%20II%2030-Jun-10.pdf

[eltodesukane]

It seems the NCC is currently delaying the project...

http://www.orleansstar.ca/News/2011-06-29/article-2621849/Hunt-Club-extension-to-Innes-awaits-the-NCC%3A-McNeely/1

Ottawa-Orléans MPP Phil McNeely is calling on the NCC to add the Hunt Club extension project to its master plan or risk it being heavily delayed.

"It could set the project back five to ten years. It's a city project from this point. But they won't be able to move forward if the NCC doesn't give the go-ahead."

The NCC is currently reviewing the transport portion of its Greenbelt master plan, a process which will last one year. The review of the master plan will finish late next year.
... the project, along with many others that are being proposed to pass through the Greenbelt, need to follow the proper steps.

Any more recent news about the Hunt Club extension project?

[eltodesukane]

Something I just stumbled upon,
concerning a previous Hunt Club extension

http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=2194&dat=19861113&id=R78yAAAAIBAJ&sjid=lu8FAAAAIBAJ&pg=5763,1812312
http://i43.tinypic.com/2uz357m.png