[greg_a]

Will the second phase of Eighth Avenue Place begin construction in the next 12 months?

http://www.eighthavenueplace.com/

[Wooster]

Well, obviously not. It's a miracle the first tower is getting built considering that it is 0% leased.

[Bigtime]

I just can't see it happening within the next 12 months.

[greg_a]

Over the last couple of weeks a pervasive rumor seems to have spread throughout the brokerage community that Shell has signed a deal and is leaving Oxford's building. The second rumor is that the general contractor for EAP has just bought the materials for the second phase.

[frinkprof]

Like with the first EAP building, I'll believe it when I see it.

I look at the possibility of the second EAP tower going up as similar to how Banker's Hall or First Canadian Centre went with their second phases. Several years later, or not at all.

Personally I think EAP only proposed two towers to get more parking approved, with few intentions of actually building the second phase, or only doing so when the market is very favourable.

[mersar]

Yeah. On the upside at least with EAP we'll get the podium level built for the entire project, so it won't be empty land

[craner]

I'm glad they built the taller tower first for once. :notacrook:

Centenial also did this but it turned out to be a moot point as both phases are U/C. :tup:

I wish these twinned projects just went with one taller tower in most cases. Imagine a single 80 storey EAP, or a 64 storey Centenial tower. :yes:
How about a 76 storey Arriva ?

[ibz]

This rumour was discussed at length at the Calgary Real Estate Forum a few weeks back, clearly it shouldnt be a surprise that a big empty building in this market would be talking to every big name in town that already hasnt moved.

Even if they do land a big tenant, you can't seriously think they would go ahead with the second tower, there would still be a couple million of sq ft in the market to absorb...

[Bokimon]

Second tower is still nothing but a mechanical doghouse. The podium will be the only item to be a full build out. However crane opening slots are being left open so in the future they wouldnt have to knock out the slabs and just insert the shaft as needed..

[WhipperSnapper]

sexy

[bob1954]

I still say and have said all along, it should have been a single 60 story tower and the developer could of built something else on the remainder of the land. It might have been something other than office.

[Doug]

Maybe within in the next 12 years

[AirGuitarChampion]

Yeah. On the upside at least with EAP we'll get the podium level built for the entire project, so it won't be empty land

Walking by on the Centennial Parkade side this morning one gets a pretty impressive view of the tower with nothing (even a short podium) in the way.

If it was empty land, or say a very lightly developed couryard (say, you know, you could put up a large tent 10 days a year in, and have other smaller stuff going on the rest of the time...) I wouldn't be too opposed to that. You'd have Olympic Plaza anchoring at one end, this new Courtyard at the other anchoring Stephen Ave.

If it's 11 years, 12 years, or never for phase 2, they can take that rebar they just put above grade, add it to the top of phase 1, leave the courtyard and call it a day. If only I could find the parallel universe this is happening in...

[Surrealplaces]

Nope, won't see it built for quite some time, if ever. I don't care if they ever build it, as long as the podium gets built, which looks to be the case. If they do build the second tower, I hope it's 15 years from now and a different design. We've got too many twins already.

[KONYS]

Enough twins.

[Calgarian]

Enough twins.

here here

[Frenzy]

If phase 2 does go ahead, I hope there will be a different design then phase 1.

[bob1954]

Exactly my rant about having a "taller" single tower instead of 2-3 of the same design. Forget the shadow nonsense.... My opinion of course!

[frinkprof]

^In a lot of cases, for example EAP, Banker's Hall, etc. the two towers has to do with phasing. For the developer, it is a lot less risky to build it in two separate phases of a "small" tower each, rather than one big tower in a single phase. So in some cases it is either two (or three or more) smaller towers, or none at all. Rolling all that square footage into a single building that has to be constructed all in one go is not a risk some developers are willing to take in Calgary's market.

It's not always about shadows. Besides, if a developer wanted to build a taller tower, they would acquire a site where shadows wouldn't limit that. Plenty of these sites exist.

[bob1954]

"Frinkprof": I think it's probably a little more complicated than that, but I'll accept that. Sometimes it is'nt about just buying a parcel of land that does'nt have shadow restrictions. It can be difficult and time consuming putting together deals when there are muliple owners of a particular site. I just don't like twins and don't care for height limits, but that's just me. The powers to be could care less what I or other folks think.... IMO

[Bokimon]

For this project, it was shadowing that played a large role in limiting its height.
It could even have been a single tower with vertical phasing so to add more floors if demand had picked up.
There is that existing courthouse square which is a narrow strip of land behind the old courthouse being used as a construction staging area which for me I couldnt give an ass about because there is a new plaza being built right beside it!! But apparently the powers at city hall want this strip to be preserved.. That i dont get.

[freeweed]

Bo, are you serious? We have shadowing restrictions on THAT???

OK, for everyone that says "hey, Encana (or whomever) can just buy land that isn't shadow-restricted" - um, if we're preserving THAT, I wouldn't be surprised if there isn't any suitable land in the entire CBD.

Seriously?

That?

Anyone have a map of what is and isn't bound by the shadowing bylaw? I can totally understand the riverfront and associated walkways, but is every stupid strip of (former) green protected too?

[frinkprof]

^From what I understand, it is not a case of "the" shadow bylaw, but that there are a specific bylaws for different areas. The same conditions that apply to the riverfront pathway (dates and times when shadows are limited, etc.) may not apply to the land BO is referring to. Although I'm not entirely sure. I think someone posted the shadow bylaws before, so I'll leave it to someone who is better at navigating the city's website.

[Wooster]

probably related to the shadow restrictions on the new courthouse park?

[bob1954]

Too much sun can cause skin cancer.

[Cow-garian]

Too much sun can cause skin cancer.

:haha: awesome, you should go to City Hall and see what they say.

[Cow-garian]

Well, obviously not. It's a miracle the first tower is getting built considering that it is 0% leased.

Is that for real?? I voted no, but with a fact like that (if it is true) my vote is HELLLZZ no!:yuck:

[mersar]

Is that for real?? I voted no, but with a fact like that (if it is true) my vote is HELLLZZ no!:yuck:

Yep. They still haven't officially announced any tenants for the first tower. As of September they were saying they hope to have some signed this fall

[wco]

Yep. They still haven't officially announced any tenants for the first tower. As of September they were saying they hope to have some signed this fall

That's a hell of a leap of faith. There has to be something that hasn't been made public. Nobody invests this amount of money with no guaranteed ROI.

[mersar]

That's a hell of a leap of faith. There has to be something that hasn't been made public. Nobody invests this amount of money with no guaranteed ROI.

The pockets behind this project are pretty deep (SITQ and AIMCO), and are looking long term. Considering construction began nearly 2 years ago now its unlikely that they've been sitting on any potential tenants without saying so for this long. Its also got the advantage that even if there is a huge surplus of space in the CBD, its the newer class A or better space that will tend to be filled, and the older space in existing towers will empty out.

[wco]

The pockets behind this project are pretty deep (SITQ and AIMCO), and are looking long term. Considering construction began nearly 2 years ago now its unlikely that they've been sitting on any potential tenants without saying so for this long. Its also got the advantage that even if there is a huge surplus of space in the CBD, its the newer class A or better space that will tend to be filled, and the older space in existing towers will empty out.

Very true, but still....seems a bit odd IMO.

[Surrealplaces]

That's a hell of a leap of faith. There has to be something that hasn't been made public. Nobody invests this amount of money with no guaranteed ROI.

I believe that even though they haven't signed up an anchor tenant, they still have irons in the fire with multiple smaller tenants. It's a numbers game, and if they believe they can get the building partially filled in a downtime, they probably feel good about the long term. That's my guess.

[greg_a]

Anyone know if there are going to be any interesting light features on the exterior of the tower?

[bestnickever]

Whether true or not, the word around the site for several months now is that Shell is going to be the main tenant in the first tower. Also, the second tower is only going two floors for now.

[Bigtime]

Whether true or not, the word around the site for several months now is that Shell is going to be the main tenant in the first tower. Also, the second tower is only going two floors for now.

Thanks for the updated rumours, of course we all knew about the second tower only going to podium height right now.

[craner]

Anyone know if there are going to be any interesting light features on the exterior of the tower?

I believe so . . . cue Bokimon.:hi:

[bob1954]

EAP #1 is going to donate the remainder of the block to the city, in return, EAP is going to add 20 floors! The city then mysteriously amends the shadowing by-law, and we all live happily ever after! Ha! Ha!

[monocle]

Is there any word on this? Is EAP fully leased?
Sorry for old thread bump.

[ksnaden]

Is there any word on this? Is EAP fully leased?
Sorry for old thread bump.

EAP is 88% leased according to this:

http://www.calgaryherald.com/business/Occupied+downtown+Calgary+office+space+2008+level/4633530/story.html

[Bokimon]

And from what I know the east tower is now fully leased and West Tower should come online shortly and for good reason. I have yet to see the full extent of the light feature including the spine lighting and the lightbox at the penthouse. But once it is all lit, it will look pretty damm nice.

[Coldrsx]

88% was last I heard, but yes essentially done.

[whiteford]

would be nice if tower 2 was changed because of hi office demand and it became the taller of the two. 60 plus floors would be nice. haha

[craner]

^ That would indeed be Awesome.

[nick.flood]

Tower 1 is at or near the height limit for shadow restriction on the courts park?

[Doug]

would be nice if tower 2 was changed because of hi office demand and it became the taller of the two. 60 plus floors would be nice. haha

Doubt that is possible. The foundation is already in place. I don't know how much margin is built into the foundation, but I'd be suprised is the design could change very much.

[Bokimon]

It won't go any higher. I think I can try and find a copy of the DP and post a scan of the shadowing diagram which dictated its maximum height. I honestly don't agree with the rules set for this project as it would of been great if it was one large tower.

The foundations in place is structurally designed so the columns and core walls are slightly thinner and the raft footing is also slightly thinner so I don't think a redesign will be done to alter its height. I think the core walls are 900 thick for the East tower and 700 thick for the West Tower. Still beefy for skyscraper calibre as most big towers in this city are up to the West Tower height whereas the East tower is a bump up since it reigns in the 50 storey area so design rules are more strict.

[Calgarian]

If they went to a lighter steel core above the parkade, they could probably add a few floors, but not many.

[whiteford]

or they could just beef up the foundation all together. Larger feats of engineering have been done. Not that they would ever think of it, however, because my luck just isn’t that good. haha

[Bassic Lab]

Ignoring the engineering challenges for a moment, would zoning even allow a bigger tower? There can't be much FAR space left for the site. The current development plan is already pretty intensive.

[Calgarian]

Ignoring the engineering challenges for a moment, would zoning even allow a bigger tower? There can't be much FAR space left for the site. The current development plan is already pretty intensive.

You could probably fit something bigger on the site, mostly just because the Belgo building isn't very tall and that's the only other building on the block. The Bankers Hall site has both BH towers plus the Royal Bank tower, and that is pretty much the same size block...

[Calgarian]

or they could just beef up the foundation all together. Larger feats of engineering have been done. Not that they would ever think of it, however, because my luck just isn’t that good. haha

That and it would be extremely expensive. The good thing about EAP2 is that they are ready to start construction, so they can be ahead of the next boom. That's a big reason why FCC2 didn't go ahead. The foundations were ready for a 64 tower, but parking requirements have changed since then, so they would have had to go back and make changes to the parkade or significantly reduce the size of the building (or at least that's how I understand it).

[kap384]

EAP II starting construction next month:

http://www.calgaryherald.com/business/real-estate/Skyscraper+gets+ahead+downtown+Calgary/5889021/story.html

I'd expect City Centre to be not too far behind.

^ Doug, remember when you said there wouldn't be another major office tower break ground for a decade? ;)

We staying with this thread or create a new one once construciton starts?

[JBinCalgary]

I wonder if you could see a design change?

[DizzyEdge]

so do they have to demolish the just-built western half?

[Bigtime]

so do they have to demolish the just-built western half?

Nope, they put the crane in and start building right on top of the podium. It was designed that way. No different than what Keynote II did.