[PhillyRising]

Well well well...it looks as if the Census people were undercounting our city after all...by almost 100,000 people and officially bumped us up over 1.5 million people!!!!

http://www.philly.com/philly/news/homepage/20091202_Hey__Philly__You_re_bigger_.html

[novawolverine]

Good for Philly. I wish it broke back into the top 5 somehow.

[Steely Dan]

this gives me hope that the bureau has also been seriously underestimating chicago as well. hopefully by a wide enough margin to push the windy city back over 3,000,000 for census 2010. maybe, maybe not, we'll see.

good for philly, i like to hear stories of the census bureau bending over and taking it for their eternally pessimistic outlook on every city north of the mason-dixon line and east of the mississippi.

as i like to frequently say, the census bureau couldn't "estimate" their way through an open doorway.

[CentralGrad258]

Damn it, beat me to it. Great news for the city, hopefully the 2010 Census makes it official. Certainly confirms what I've seen on the ground.

[chiphile]

I live in Philly now and I'm loving it. But huge sections of it are very desolate and sparsely populated, I hope it goes back to the 2 million or so it once was.

[PhillyRising]

Damn it, beat me to it. Great news for the city, hopefully the 2010 Census makes it official. Certainly confirms what I've seen on the ground.

Hello! There has been plenty of new housing built all over the city...and that didn't support the theory that the city was in decline. I certainly do not see large amounts of home construction in the suburbs to accomodate the supposed exodus.

[lawfin]

this gives me hope that the bureau has also been seriously underestimating chicago as well. hopefully by a wide enough margin to push the windy city back over 3,000,000 for census 2010. maybe, maybe not, we'll see.

good for philly, i like to hear stories of the census bureau bending over and taking it for their eternally pessimistic outlook on every city north of the mason-dixon line and east of the mississippi.

as i like to frequently say, the census bureau couldn't "estimate" their way through an open doorway.
Agreed if the % follow Philly Chicago would be over 3 million now; if it followed Boston's revision it would be about 3.16 million

Good news for Philly

[pip]

Good for Philly. I'm curious. Has Philly's public school enrollment been going up or down?

[VivaLFuego]

Hello! There has been plenty of new housing built all over the city...and that didn't support the theory that the city was in decline. I certainly do not see large amounts of home construction in the suburbs to accomodate the supposed exodus.

Housing unit construction doesn't mean much ... average household sizes declined for several consecutive decades, meaning even new construction could accompany population loss if the construction doesn't keep up with the rate of shrinking household sizes. However, on a nationwide basis that trend has almost run it's course and stabilized, and the recession has probably put a further damper on the reduction in household size. Additionally, one has to consider housing deterioration in the poor neighborhoods and the accompanying exodus of people, particularly in older African-American neighborhoods, which is responsible for much of the recent outflow in the older cities such as Philly and Chicago despite strong gentrification in other areas.

Anyway this is good news for Philly, and it bodes well for other older cities with large populations of college students and immigrants.

[novawolverine]

Yeah, new housing units don't mean much when you have the cost of living rising for families who can flock to low-cost suburbs and exurbs. I think there is a point when some cities gentrify enough, attracting new residents and retains current residents to make up for the loss in families leaving, usually by this time a lot of the people who could/want to move, did already. I think this is probably what is occurring in cities like Philly and DC right now. That's why I think it's important that smarth growthers and urbanites stress the value of education b/c that's the thrust for a lot of people, even the middle-upper middle class.

[bryson662001]

While obviously this isn't bad news, I have never attached much importance to the core city's population or understood those who do. It is the metro population that really counts. What difference does it make which side of the street you live on?

[Steely Dan]

While obviously this isn't bad news, I have never attached much importance to the core city's population or understood those who do. It is the metro population that really counts. What difference does it make which side of the street you live on?

using chicago as an example, i care about the core city population because i care about the health of the core city. i don't really give a shit how many ugly vinyl-sided mcamansions they build down in the exurban wastelands of will county; i'm FAR more interested in seeing the abandonment and decay of chicago's inner city hoods abated and turned around.

chicago, the city, is an interesting place and i want to see it succeed and thrive, and the population growth of suburban hellholes like schaumburg or bolingbrook or naperville has very little to do with the health of the city of chicago.

[PhillyRising]

While obviously this isn't bad news, I have never attached much importance to the core city's population or understood those who do. It is the metro population that really counts. What difference does it make which side of the street you live on?

For me...it's the erasing of the stigma that it is a city in decline which as you know...really isn't the case. .

[Mr Roboto]

Fill up Philly, fill up. Good news for all of us who reside in northern 'declining' cities.

[mongoXZ]

Reading the thread title I thought it was referring to the resident's waistlines.

[subterranean]

Philly sounds like an incredible city!!!! Congrats on the "new" residents!

[the urban politician]

chicago, the city, is an interesting place and i want to see it succeed and thrive, and the population growth of suburban hellholes like schaumburg or bolingbrook or naperville has very little to do with the health of the city of chicago.

^ While I agree to a point, I do think that suburban well-being and population growth ultimately benefit Chicago indirectly.

Many of the people who shop & dine downtown, buy condos, send their kids to city Universities and thus get them a rental apt, etc etc are suburbanites. More affluent suburbanites probably translates to higher revenues for the city in that way.

This seems to work better for Chicago than most older cities, perhaps except NY. Detroit suburbanites, for example, seem to have largely abandoned their center city; yet in Chicago you'll see plenty of suburbanites walking around downtown, dining, patronizing the city's nightlife, etc.

The ultimate example: you were once a suburbanite, and now you live downtown.

[Steely Dan]

^ yes, having a suburban populace that chooses to partake in the urban offerings of the city is certainly light years better than having a suburban populace that utterly ignores its central city. but i still think that monitoring the health of the central city using metrics such as city-proper population growth/decline is important. merely saying "well, the metro area population is growing so everything must be hunky-dory" is far too simplistic to me.

[KVNBKLYN]

I found this sentence interesting:

The difference came from the bureau's having more accurate counts of those living in prisons, nursing homes and college dorms, said Gary Jastrzab, the city's deputy director of city planning.

I would think it would be fairly easy to estimate how many people live in an institutional setting such as a prison, nursing home or college dorm. They don't have a good count of prisoners? How could that be possible?

[Buckeye Native 001]

Didn't Detroit and Cincinnati both challenge the census and win?

[Ex-Ithacan]

Good for Philly. :tup:

[jpIllInoIs]

^ and Toledo

Toledo successfully challenged the U.S. Census Bureau’s population estimate, which puts the city back over 316,000 people — a number greater than the official 2000 Census count.

Mayor Carty Finkbeiner, who announced the new figure yesterday, initiated a challenge after the Census Bureau listed Toledo’s 2007 population estimate at 295,029 — down 0.9 percent from the 2006 estimate of 297,806.

The new July, 2007, estimate will be revised to 316,851. The 2000 census listed Toledo’s population at 313,782.


http://www.toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20090114/NEWS16/901140384

[LMich]

Didn't Detroit and Cincinnati both challenge the census and win?

Yes, as did a plethora of other cities, and some do it regularly. The big ones that pop to mind that challenged the Census, this decade, and won include St. Louis, Milwaukee, DC, New York City, Baltimore...just name a large Northern city and most have been underestimated. lol Detroit challenged for the first time ever in 2006 finding at least nearly 50,000 "missing" citizens.

[bobdreamz]

Good news for Phily! Even Miami is challenging the Census also!

Miami: Census estimate short by 65,000 people
A study commissioned by Miami Mayor Manny Diaz says Census estimates of the city's population are incorrect and that market reports miss $1.3 billion in total income yearly.
BY ANDRES VIGLUCCI
aviglucci@MiamiHerald.com

Convinced the U.S. Census Bureau has long underestimated Miami's population and income levels -- discouraging retailers, banks and supermarkets from opening shop in the city -- Mayor Manny Diaz's administration commissioned an in-depth study that confirms the existence of a substantial gap.

How large? Try 65,000 people missing from the 2008 Census population estimates, a sum that would bring the city population to a record 480,000. In addition, the study said traditional Census-based market estimates missed a whopping $1.3 billion in residents' income.

I would provide a link but there wasn't one at the forum I copied this from.

[the urban politician]

If Philly, Cincinnati, Milwaukee, Detroit, DC, Baltimore, and St Louis successfully challenged the Census estimates, then I would be very surprised if the current Census estimates aren't wrong about Chicago, which has certainly seen much more development in the recent boom than any of the above cities, and shares a similar historical/demographic pattern (older post-industrial city dealing with crime, poverty, gentrification, suburbanization & sunbeltification of jobs, etc etc).

But then, I also had a hunch Chicago would win the 2016 Olympics, so it's all up in the air really...

[plinko]

It's not just northern cities though. In the last census, Arizona came in well over 200,000 ahead of what the estimates were. Phoenix gained nearly 100,000. And California cities are woefully undercounted. Los Angeles passed 4 million over 2 years ago (California Department of Finance) and San Francisco is larger than it ever has been (nearing 800k).

Denver is another city the suprised everyone at census time.

[Alice93]

So how many more of these stories will we see in time?

[therealdawk]

I live in Philly now and I'm loving it. But huge sections of it are very desolate and sparsely populated, I hope it goes back to the 2 million or so it once was.

2M+ would be sweet but QUALITY over quantity please.

[Wheelingman04]

Philly has such a major image problem, especially in PA, but most of us know how awesome it is on this forum. It was only a matter of time before this urban masterpiece would come back in population.

[Centropolis]

Philly has such a major image problem, especially in PA, but most of us know how awesome it is on this forum. It was only a matter of time before this urban masterpiece would come back in population.

Philly doesn't have a widespread image problem, at least not in this neck of the woods. It's looked up to as a sort of "big brother."

I Love Philly!

[philadelphiathrives]

For me...it's the erasing of the stigma that it is a city in decline which as you know...really isn't the case. .

This is the best thing about this! :cheers:

I knew the city was growing. I work in real estate and I live in West Philadelphia. There's no way that this city could have the kind of strong real estate market it has and be declining in population, but for too long the census numbers were used by negative types who kept saying Philadelphia was a declining city. Well not anymore! Now we can rightfully call Philadelphia a growing city, and after the recession, a boomtown. :D :cheers:

I think next year's census will show even more growth, especially among immigrants. And the poverty statistics might also show improvement. :D

[azliam]

This is the best thing about this! :cheers:

I knew the city was growing. I work in real estate and I live in West Philadelphia. There's no way that this city could have the kind of strong real estate market it has and be declining in population, but for too long the census numbers were used by negative types who kept saying Philadelphia was a declining city. Well not anymore! Now we can rightfully call Philadelphia a growing city, and after the recession, a boomtown. :D :cheers:

I think next year's census will show even more growth, especially among immigrants. And the poverty statistics might also show improvement. :D

Color me confused, but after reading the article, I was under the impression that the "increase" was a result of the bureau having more accurate counts of those who are living in prisons, nursing homes, and college dorms, but who knows how long they've been undercounting those.

[philadelphiathrives]

Color me confused, but after reading the article, I was under the impression that the "increase" was a result of the bureau having more accurate counts of those who are living in prisons, nursing homes, and college dorms, but who knows how long they've been undercounting those.

The new estimates are 23,000 people more than the 2000 census. Considering the 2000 census was probably more thorough than any recent estimate would be (including better counting in 2000 of the people mentioned above), then there was an increase of people since 2000 that were not being counted by recent estimates. :D :cheers:

This latest estimate does not include better counting of immigrants, which in my estimation has been grossly undercounted in recent years in Philadelphia. The 2010 census and the city's PhillyCounts plan will reach out to immigrants, including those that speak little English but are long term residents. :)

[TarHeelJ]

this gives me hope that the bureau has also been seriously underestimating chicago as well. hopefully by a wide enough margin to push the windy city back over 3,000,000 for census 2010. maybe, maybe not, we'll see.

good for philly, i like to hear stories of the census bureau bending over and taking it for their eternally pessimistic outlook on every city north of the mason-dixon line and east of the mississippi.

as i like to frequently say, the census bureau couldn't "estimate" their way through an open doorway.

It's not just cities north of Mason-Dixon...it's cities in general. The Census Bureau has no problem giving a liberal count to the metro areas of most cities, but when it comes to the actual cities they are very often undercounted - no matter where they are located.

[theWatusi]

Let's stay away from a Philly vs. Phoenix pissing contest please.

[pesto]

Isn't this kind of mixed news? The article says that the increase comes from a previous undercount of "institutionaized" people (prisons, nursing homes and college dorms).

Just kidding; hope Philly is doing fine and so is everywhere else.