[someone123]

I don't know if it's been posted yet, but there's a PDF available here: http://www.halifax.ca/Commcoun/pcc/documents/NorthCommon.pdf

I've been complaining about the poor state of the Common for a long time and it looks like these improvements will bring it more in line with the Public Gardens or Victoria Park. Both are much nicer and function better than they did in the past.

I really like the idea of having small entrance plazas and a centre "island" to break things up. Right now it feels very tattered and the space is not particularly well-defined, although the buildings around it are actually pretty solid.

[terrynorthend]

Looks great. It really makes me shake my head at the "Friends of the Commons" and the self-interested nimbys here. Clearly they are driving many individual agendas with regards to the Commons. Be it a ball-player who feels entitled to Wednesday night beer league, or a dog owner who lives across the street on a postage stamp lot, and considers this his "own backyard".

Either its everyone's Commons or its no one's. They want to use it to play softball, cricket, run the dog, tag football, ultimate Frisbee- and I (and many others) want to use it to see and hear an occasional concert. Its owned by all of us, so we can all share it for many uses, or it can become "untouchable" green space with no uses. No concerts, no ball diamonds, no football, no dogs.. no people.

[Jonovision]

This looks awesome. The Commons are in such a sad state right now they really need a good upgrade. Dartmouth just got its large public realm upgrade around Lake Banook for the Canoe Championships last year, I think Halifax should get something of the same quality as well. I think even redesigning the fountain and creating a more inviting central area would go a long way towards creating a better public realm.

[hfx_chris]

At the very least, wider pathways and better lighting should be a priority.

[planarchy]

These upgrades are ok - but certainly not great. I guess it is a start.

Nice to see an upgrade to make the fountain area more prominent, and the idea of better defined entrances is good, but-

- asphalt paths are ridiculous - cheap now, but expensive over the long-term

- the lighting is a huge disappointment. This is not a Victorian park/garden so why are we putting faux-antique lamp posts here? This is a huge open space that has long suffered from poor lighting (in a city that pays absolutely no attention to lighting strategies) - this seems to me like a perfect opportunity to do something more interesting, more modern, more efficient - and better suited to this type of space.

[Halifax Hillbilly]

These upgrades are ok - but certainly not great. I guess it is a start.

Nice to see an upgrade to make the fountain area more prominent, and the idea of better defined entrances is good, but-

- asphalt paths are ridiculous - cheap now, but expensive over the long-term

- the lighting is a huge disappointment. This is not a Victorian park/garden so why are we putting faux-antique lamp posts here? This is a huge open space that has long suffered from poor lighting (in a city that pays absolutely no attention to lighting strategies) - this seems to me like a perfect opportunity to do something more interesting, more modern, more efficient - and better suited to this type of space.

Very good points, I wondered about the lighting myself. Are these changes set in stone?

[Jstaleness]

I like the LED lights that are at the base of Hammonds Plains and Bedford Hwy. There must be a similar designed light used more for flooding large areas. The commons need to be lit to allow late night walking to be a safe thing but not glow like a football stadium.

[terrynorthend]

The safety issue at the Commons is overstated IMO. I have been through there 3-4 times a week at night for years. There is no more crime/attacks than in any other part of the city. I'll take the Commons at 2 am over pizza corner any night.

As for lighting there, it gives a false sense of security. I always cross through the middle of the darkened, open fields, rather than sticking to the lit paths. I find that on the paths, I am blinded by the light, and feel "on display", peering into vast areas of darkness in where I can't tell who if anyone may be.

In the middle of the dark field, my eyes adjust, I can see if there is anyone that I might want to give a wide berth well before I get near them, and I can see everything happening on the lit paths. I have never felt unsafe on the Commons.

[planarchy]

The safety issue at the Commons is overstated IMO. I have been through there 3-4 times a week at night for years. There is no more crime/attacks than in any other part of the city. I'll take the Commons at 2 am over pizza corner any night.

As for lighting there, it gives a false sense of security. I always cross through the middle of the darkened, open fields, rather than sticking to the lit paths. I find that on the paths, I am blinded by the light, and feel "on display", peering into vast areas of darkness in where I can't tell who if anyone may be.

In the middle of the dark field, my eyes adjust, I can see if there is anyone that I might want to give a wide berth well before I get near them, and I can see everything happening on the lit paths. I have never felt unsafe on the Commons.

I agree. I've walked through the Common many times late at night and never felt unsafe. I'm also around Gottingen some nights and don't feel threatened. Actually, were I've felt the most vulnerable in the city is waiting for a bus in Clayton Park with those high hedges hiding everything along the sidewalks - and no other pedestrians around for miles.

[worldlyhaligonian]

The commons are very safe at night... you can see anybody coming at you from a mile (not literally) away.

Its pretty hard to get jumped when somebody can't approach you without being seen.

I always walk back from the bars across and it saves me half an hour in walking time.

[-Harlington-]

i guess ill put this here....




Council considers permit parking around Halifax Common
Last Updated: Monday, January 25, 2010 | 8:20 PM AT Comments8Recommend2
CBC News

The days of free parking around the Halifax Common could soon be over, as Halifax city council considers a monthly permit system.

People park for free all day long in the 300 spaces along Rainnie Drive, Ahern Ave., Cogswell, Cunard, Robie and Trolloppe streets while they go to work or classes at Citadel High School.

The proposal would eliminate free parking in those zones and instead require motorists to buy monthly permits. The permits would cost between $35 and $40 a month, depending on where the parking spot is.

David McCusker, the Halifax Regional Municipality manager in charge of the project, said the new plan might actually benefit commuters.

"Some people may be disappointed that they don't get to park for free now. But some people may appreciate that they now have an opportunity to park without having to come extraordinarily early to find a parking space," he said.

The city plans to use the money raised for transportation initiatives such as bike lanes, transit and car pools.

All of this worries some of the commuters who regularly park on the affected streets.

Commuter Ken Ivey said he won't have a choice but to buy a permit so he can get to work on time at the Queen Elizabeth II Health Centre.

"It's kind of hard for me to take the bus because I live in Elmsdale," he said. "The other option would be to park at the hospital itself, but it's $96 a month just to park there."

If the permit system goes ahead, it would be in place Monday to Friday from 8 a.m. until 5 p.m. and would take effect on April 1.

Downtown Coun. Dawn Sloane is worried a permit system will result in commuters parking on side streets.

"I think what's going to happen is that it's going to be a ripple effect where you're going to see, again, commuter parking on the side streets," she said.

"So, what you'll see is that those who do not want to pay for parking next to their work, they'll move to the side streets, which will displace the citizens who actually live in the area."

But city officials said if that happens, homeowners can apply for parking changes of their own — either permits or limited hours.

[Keith P.]

^^^ Just another revenue grab by the city. McCusker needs to go.

[Nordheimer_87]

Two articles from Spacing Atlantic on the North Common

History of the Commons
http://spacingatlantic.ca/2010/01/26/uncovering-our-common-past/

Current Development proposal
http://spacingatlantic.ca/2010/01/26/the-right-to-the-common/

[Halifax Hillbilly]

The proposal would eliminate free parking in those zones and instead require motorists to buy monthly permits. The permits would cost between $35 and $40 a month, depending on where the parking spot is.

Commuter Ken Ivey said he won't have a choice but to buy a permit so he can get to work on time at the Queen Elizabeth II Health Centre.

"It's kind of hard for me to take the bus because I live in Elmsdale," he said. "The other option would be to park at the hospital itself, but it's $96 a month just to park there."

So the Hospital charges $96/month and the city is going to charge you $40 a month - boo hoo, sounds like a pretty good discount to me. Free parking is an inefficient way to allocate a scarce resource - parking spaces. Free parking is a subsidy to drivers picked up by all tax-payers (or consumers/workers in commercial lots), including those who don't drive. Why do lots charge for parking? Because the land is valuabe, there is more demand than supply in downtown, and it costs money to maintain parking areas. The street isn't that different.

The overflow parking question is a valid concern but I'd be shocked if there isn't overflow into residential neighbourhoods already in that area. There are lots of reasonable ways to protect residential streets, such as residential parking permits.

[Dmajackson]

So the Hospital charges $96/month and the city is going to charge you $40 a month - boo hoo, sounds like a pretty good discount to me. Free parking is an inefficient way to allocate a scarce resource - parking spaces. Free parking is a subsidy to drivers picked up by all tax-payers (or consumers/workers in commercial lots), including those who don't drive. Why do lots charge for parking? Because the land is valuabe, there is more demand than supply in downtown, and it costs money to maintain parking areas. The street isn't that different.

The overflow parking question is a valid concern but I'd be shocked if there isn't overflow into residential neighbourhoods already in that area. There are lots of reasonable ways to protect residential streets, such as residential parking permits.

I agree complerely with you.

Besides the streets proposed right now for the permits are around the Citadel and Commons so no residents are directly affected.

As Councillor Karsten said its $2 a day which it less than a coffee at Starbucks or 2 coffees at Timmy's.

[Keith P.]

Council killed it, so it's all moot. McCusker really needs to get out of HRM -- anything he touches immediately becomes toxic to council.

[spaustin]

Too bad. They at least should have considered issuing permits to residents and then switching to 2 hour parking for streets in these areas. That would have alleviated any concerns of business owners while stopping the free parking for commuters. It's such a basic truth that if you give people a transit pass they'll take the bus but if you give them free parking they'll take their car. We should stop giving out "free parking" to a lucky few.

[Halifax Hillbilly]

We should stop giving out "free parking" to a lucky few.

There's no such thing as a free lunch, just as there's no such thing as free parking.

A synopsis of Donald Schoup's High Cost of Free Parking explains the problem quite well http://www.raisethehammer.org/article/072

Too bad it got defeated. In Halifax's case we're going to have to provide a whole lot of carrots to move drivers out of cars before anyone starts talking seriously about even the flimsiest of sticks.

[Keith P.]

I don't understand why they just don't put parking meters on these streets instead of this convoluted permit system.

[spaustin]

Just an opinion piece we missed from the community section of the Herald. Lots of good old common sense.



FOR ABOUT 10 years before I moved to the little house I live in now, I lived within a two-minute walk of the North Common.

During those years, I walked across that big soggy field twice daily on my way to and from work. I’ve worked this out for some of my male readers, who I know LOVE numbers, and are already calculating this in their heads anyway: it works out to about 4,700 trips, allowing for statutory holidays, two weeks vacation a year, and a couple of sick days.

My partner got mugged there once in broad daylight when a couple of doofuses tried to take her bag, which, fortunately, she had strapped diagonally across her body. They ran off, red-faced, after she more or less gave them some anatomical/recreational advice as to how they could spend the rest of their day.

I remember once fearing that I would die there, as I traipsed across the tundra in the middle of a howling blizzard. I think it was Christmas Eve or New Year’s Day or something ridiculous, when normal people were not expected to put their lives on the line to get to work, so I was feeling doubly sorry for myself and seriously considering just giving up and lying down to have a good cry.

Anyway, my point is that the common and I have a pretty intimate relationship. And the other point I really want to make is this: apart from being a nice quiet place to walk, and a good spot for a dog walk or game of softball or Frisbee, it’s pretty useless in terms of anything else.

Unless you feel like climbing a bleacher, there’s almost nowhere to sit. The fountain is rarely on, and of course it’s stuck behind that huge, ugly fence. You can’t get a hot dog or a drink of water. So, unless you’ve got a dog or a game or there’s a massive concert in the middle of it, there’s no other reason to go there.

This week, Halifax Regional Municipality held a public meeting to solicit feedback on a proposal to make some changes to the Halifax Commons. The proposal dates to 1994, so you can see that these upgrades have been developing at the usual breakneck speed of progress in Halifax.

The plan includes some great ideas — improved landscaping, more trees, better lighting, upgrades to the sports fields, widened pathways, more seating areas, a redesign of the fountain, new kiosks, and allowances for public art. But perhaps most controversially, the plan also incorporates a "Special Events Plaza" at the corner of North Park and Cogswell.

That plaza (and the widened pathways) will involve some paving, and the paving appears to be what most rankles the Friends of the Halifax Common, whose rather poignant motto is "Helping Protect What’s Left."

I do agree with the Friends that the preservation of public green space is extremely important. But their position on this plan, as posted on their website, is that it ". . . continues the erosion of public open land by . . . (making) way for a permanent hard-surfaced plaza for concerts, using asphalt instead of permeable materials for wider paths on the Common and creating hard surfaced entrances."

It’s not the usability, or the greater accessibility or the potential opportunities that interest the Friends, it’s the asphalt. I would argue that even if this corner is paved, it’s still "public" and "open," and I would suggest that if a space is "green" but very few people are using it, it’s just a waste of good public space.

( community@herald.ca)

Angela Mombourquette is a freelance writer and filmmaker living in Halifax.

[worldlyhaligonian]

entertaining to read, although i have never really felt unsafe on the commons.

i think they should update aspects of the commons, but i think its generally pretty good.

[Dmajackson]

Good to see the city is against Watts idea of making the Commons useless land again;

North Common Improvement (http://www.halifax.ca/council/agendasc/documents/100330cow4.pdf)

[planarchy]

Good to see the city is against Watts idea of making the Commons useless land again;

North Common Improvement (http://www.halifax.ca/council/agendasc/documents/100330cow4.pdf)


Useless land again? I don't understand this comment? ! :shrug:

If anything is useless, I have to say that it is this plan. I don't know what they spent on it, but it is beyond basic and it seems that very little thought went into it. Improvements? I don't see any. This part of the commons is bursting with potential, but it needs more in-depth analysis to see how it is used. A good example are the paths. I don't know for sure, but I would assume there is a need for a path that leads directly from the Willow Tree corner. This seems like an obvious path and one needed even more as areas around Gottingen and Agricola are developed. Just an example, but I'm sure there are others.

My problem is that they just seemed to take what exists, and what has existed for more than a century, took a big fat black marker, traced the paths and said "there, that is much better!". WTF?? The role and place of a large open space like this has changed, as has its position in the city, as the city has grown around it. It is time we really think about what the common is and what it can be for halifax.

[Dmajackson]

Useless land again? I don't understand this comment? ! :shrug:

I probably should of stated that differently.

Basically if Watts had her way the Commons would be empty land not used by the public for anything. If she really is the HT's and "Friends of ..." go-to person on Regional Council then true 19th century use of the land would involve removing a lot of manure. In todays standards for public space this would be very useless hence it would become useless again.

One thing that I find odd about Watts way of thinking is tomorrow she has a councillor motion asking to move all future concerts to the Garrison Grounds (foot of Citadel Hill) which itself is common land. All this really does is downsize the number of people able to attend the concerts rather than protect common land from being harmed.

[planarchy]

I probably should of stated that differently.

Basically if Watts had her way the Commons would be empty land not used by the public for anything. If she really is the HT's and "Friends of ..." go-to person on Regional Council then true 19th century use of the land would involve removing a lot of manure. In todays standards for public space this would be very useless hence it would become useless again.

One thing that I find odd about Watts way of thinking is tomorrow she has a councillor motion asking to move all future concerts to the Garrison Grounds (foot of Citadel Hill) which itself is common land. All this really does is downsize the number of people able to attend the concerts rather than protect common land from being harmed.

Thanks for the clarification. Your right, this notion that we need to preserve the common is ridiculous. It doesn't have to be developed or made into a giant square, but it role certainly needs to be redefined.

That being said, I do agree with her that Garrison Grounds are a far more appropriate venue for concerts. Also, in general, we should be more focused on pulling off great outdoor concerts for 20,000 - 30,000 people rather than thinking it is practical to regularly stage shows for 100,000. And for this, the Garrison Grounds have worked well in the past.

[Barrington south]

[QUOTE=planarchy;4771467] rather than thinking it is practical to regularly stage shows for 100,000. QUOTE]

you need to check your numbers on that one



also ......some people prefer McCartney and the stones to Keith's fest......Let them be man

[planarchy]

[QUOTE=planarchy;4771467] rather than thinking it is practical to regularly stage shows for 100,000. QUOTE]

you need to check your numbers on that one


ok then - 50,000 - 60,000. Whatever. You get the point.

[Keith P.]

[QUOTE=Barrington south;4771484]

ok then - 50,000 - 60,000. Whatever. You get the point.

The point I get is that you want to limit us to lower-tier acts. McCartney or the Stones would never have come if all we could offer was the Garrison Grounds. That is not a good trade-off IMO.

[-Harlington-]

these concerts are great for the city and i hope they have them every summer, at least it give music fans something to get exited about in this city.
And even if you aren't a fan of the certain act its still a fun experience for everyone and the commons was set out to be land used for everyone and that includes concert go-ers.
so if councilor watts had her way we wouldn't have damage to the commons but we would have damage on citadel hill which doesn't hold as much people and will be much more cramped.

[terrynorthend]

I agree that the Commons should be improved and still used for large scale concerts, whatever that improvement may ultimately be. And the Garrison grounds are great for more "intimate" outdoor concerts.

I'd actually like to see the GG's solidified in this role. I'd love to see it developed like the Hollywood Bowl, as an open air permanent ampitheatre. Put terraced concrete seating on the hill, following the natural curve from the top to the bottom. On the flat area they could still have a grassy section, and some sort of pad for easily building a serviced stage, in different configurations. They could even have a small building on-site for storage of staging equipment, washroom facilities, etc. It would be nice to see all sorts of concerts there throughout the summer months, from Rock to Country to Symphony Pops.

[planarchy]

The point I get is that you want to limit us to lower-tier acts. McCartney or the Stones would never have come if all we could offer was the Garrison Grounds. That is not a good trade-off IMO.

At this point in their careers, McCartney and the Stones are arguably "lower-tier acts":D They certainly aren't the type of bands playing the top festivals around the world. But this is another debate.

The Garrison Grounds have not been used to their full potential recently, but have certainly hosted some big concerts in the past - not just sort of Keith's Fest events as someone mentioned. I think they've had up to 35,000 people on the hill if memory serves me correctly.

I'd actually like to see the GG's solidified in this role. I'd love to see it developed like the Hollywood Bowl, as an open air permanent ampitheatre. Put terraced concrete seating on the hill, following the natural curve from the top to the bottom. On the flat area they could still have a grassy section, and some sort of pad for easily building a serviced stage, in different configurations. They could even have a small building on-site for storage of staging equipment, washroom facilities, etc. It would be nice to see all sorts of concerts there throughout the summer months, from Rock to Country to Symphony Pops.

I agree that this should be the focus for outdoor events in Halifax and where investment in infrastructure should be made. I don't think we necessarily need the heavy and very permanent concrete seating like that of the Hollywood Bowl - or at least not completely covering the site - but some permanent infrastructure with some sort of flexible seating would work. And why we are at it, lets dig into the drumlin and build a hidden multi-level parking structure to keep all those complaining about lack of parking in Halifax happy.:banana:

[Jonovision]

I do like the idea of having a more permanent venue of types on the Garrrison grounds. I would love to be able to go see the symphony there on summer evenings.

[halifaxboyns]

Sorry to ask what is probably a dumb question - but the Garrison Grounds is the field area just by the CBC building at the base of Citadell Hill correct?

It's been a while since I've talked about it - so I've completely forgotten where it is!

[terrynorthend]

Sorry to ask what is probably a dumb question - but the Garrison Grounds is the field area just by the CBC building at the base of Citadell Hill correct?

It's been a while since I've talked about it - so I've completely forgotten where it is!

That's the spot. Where the traditional "Concert on the Hill" is always held. It really is a lovely spot, except its a damn (and literal) pain in the arse to sit on the hill for an extended period of time, hence my suggestion for permanent seating. The seating could be sectioned horizontally with 4 or five flat grassy terraces and vertically with stairs and safety railings to enable people to access the site more easily and safely. (Heck Her Majesty, Queen Elizabeth II could even attend a show there :jester:)

[halifaxboyns]

That's the spot. Where the traditional "Concert on the Hill" is always held. It really is a lovely spot, except its a damn (and literal) pain in the arse to sit on the hill for an extended period of time, hence my suggestion for permanent seating. The seating could be sectioned horizontally with 4 or five flat grassy terraces and vertically with stairs and safety railings to enable people to access the site more easily and safely. (Heck Her Majesty, Queen Elizabeth II could even attend a show there :jester:)

That's what I thought. Re-terracing the hill portion could work; but I'd be worried it would require a lot of retaining walls - which would really ruin that spot as a sliding hill in the winter.

[beyeas]

I am torn on this... on one hand I do love the idea of a true outdoor concert venue like that. But selfishly I also like that is used so much right now for sledding in the winter, people suntanning or throwing frisbees in the summer. The reality is that I actually see more people using that public space than I do the commons themselves (beer league softball aside). It is actually a fairly well used space. But... it is also a kickass natural concert site.

Another place that I would LOVE to see turned into a performance venue (but it will never happen) is the armory. I have seen other armories used for public performance and it has worked really well.

[fenwick16]

Halifax really should consider an economical stadium. A 25,000 - 30,000 seat stadium could have a capacity of 40,000 - 45,000 for concerts since 15,000 could be on the field. Then all the washrooms are permanent instead of the crude portable toilets that are used on the commons. If the DND site becomes available in the future, it is actually within walking distance of where the concerts are held on the commons and it has better highway access than the commons.

The HRM could set up a stadium building fund to raise capital. There are so many people who seem to want a stadium

[-Harlington-]

Concerts on Halifax Common to continue
Last Updated: Wednesday, March 31, 2010 | 6:06 AM ET Comments14Recommend9CBC News
Promoters say 50,000 fans saw Paul McCartney perform last summer. (CBC)
The bands will play on at the Halifax Common after Halifax regional council overwhelmingly rejected an attempt to ban major concerts from the park after this year.

Coun. Jennifer Watts's motion was defeated 19-2 in a vote Tuesday. There was no debate.

"We were willing to give it a try," said Watts. "We didn't want to be naysayers, but after the experience of the past couple of years, we feel this is not an appropriate use."

Thousands of people have descended on the park in recent years to see the Rolling Stones, Paul McCartney, Kiss and other performers. A country music festival is scheduled for August, and an announcement is expected next week about a rock concert this summer.

Watts feels large concerts are too disruptive to people who live around the Common. They also damage the fields and interrupt the schedules for softball and baseball leagues, she said.

Watts, who represents Connaught-Quinpool, said the Garrison Grounds on Citadel Hill is a more suitable site.

Improvements approved
Her fellow councillors made it clear Tuesday they don't share her opinions.

Immediately after voting down Watts's proposal, council voted in favour of a $3.5-million plan to enhance the Common, including the addition of a permanent power supply that staff say will save the municipality $50,000 on generators every time a big concert is staged.

The park will also have more trees and benches, better lighting and wider walking paths. There will also be a permanent bandshell or rotunda to serve as a venue for smaller concerts.

Under this plan, large concert stages will sit along the corner of North Park and Cogswell streets, which promoters like because it means no more free seats on Citadel Hill.

Coun. Dawn Sloane, who voted for Watts's motion, said it's important to make the park more user-friendly and safe at night.

"I'm hoping that we do find a better place some day [for concerts]," Sloane said earlier Tuesday. "It would be great to have a stadium where we could have all the events we could ever think of. But I don't think we can afford that right now


Read more: http://www.cbc.ca/arts/story/2010/03/31/ns-halifax-common-concerts-watts.html#ixzz0jlRh3tpI

[fenwick16]

"I'm hoping that we do find a better place some day [for concerts]," Sloane said earlier Tuesday. "It would be great to have a stadium where we could have all the events we could ever think of. But I don't think we can afford that right now

I have heard these sorts of comments for 30 years. Moncton is going to end up with the CFL team that should be in Halifax. Almost all of the councillors co-operated and found a way to finance a new library so why can't they do the same with a stadium. I am willing to bet that the announcement of a new stadium in Halifax will generate a lot more interest than the announcement of the library. Even though I am all for a new library; it is almost half funded by the municipality and the rest by the provincial and federal governments. When it comes to a stadium the HRM council won't even set up a building fund that individuals can contribute to. This is sad state of affairs, in my opinion.

When city officials say that "we can't afford that right now", they should be stating what amount cannot be afforded - in other words at least decide what type of stadium cannot be afforded (probably none, otherwise they could say $30 million can't be afforded or $50 million can't be afforded.

PS (added April 1 2010): I found an answer to my question in another thread: Mayor Kelly mentioned a figure of $65 million dollars as the total cost of an outdoor stadium in January 2009 since it was on a wishlist for stimulus money (source: http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=163634 )