[freeweed]

You guys rock. Just had to mention that.

[frinkprof]

Nevermind.

[freeweed]

?

You drunk Freeweed?

Heh. No, it's just cool to be able to post some random off-topic rambling, and have a wealth of information thrown back at you.

[mersar]

Well the spring service revisions are out, effective march 8th. Not too much of note except that theres more adjustments of travel times to a number of routes, lots of downgrading routes to shuttles off peak and weekends. #86 does get a trip added as does the 301, and CTrain service now starts earlier as well. The 201 now has a first trip at 3:17am out of Anderson (before it was 3:37am, though currently first out of Somerset is 3:28am which doesn't change), the 202 gains one at 3:41am from city hall outbound. The 456 is the only route to be changed in terms of routing, it now goes all the way north to 14th ave then through Aspen Hills.

[CTrainDude]

CTrain service now starts earlier as well. The 201 now has a first trip at 3:17am out of Anderson (before it was 3:37am, though currently first out of Somerset is 3:28am which doesn't change.

That change only happens because now the train comes online heading north, goes to Heritage, changes ends, then goes south to Somerset. Since the trains come back so late now, it was hard to have the last trains cleaned and out of the way for the first train to come out south in the morning. This way there's no conflict between last trains coming in and first train gong out.

[CTrainDude]

Oh, and I don't think this has been mentioned here yet - 3rd Street West re-opens March 12th. As with all the others, on a Friday.

[srperrycgy]

:previous: Good to hear.

OK, I'm a Transit Geek.....I admit, but now I can prove it. I just won some 1978 CT schedules and maps on eBay. As they are pre-LRT, should be an interesting look at our transit past. I'll post a few when I receive them. :cool:

[mersar]

Oh, and I don't think this has been mentioned here yet - 3rd Street West re-opens March 12th. As with all the others, on a Friday.

Great to know. Will have to see if walking from 3rd or 6th to my place is quicker, my bet is it'll be about the same. Now I just want next year to hurry and 4th to reopen to make getting to work easier for me.

[DarkKeyo]

:previous: Good to hear.

OK, I'm a Transit Geek.....I admit, but now I can prove it. I just won some 1978 CT schedules and maps on eBay. As they are pre-LRT, should be an interesting look at our transit past. I'll post a few when I receive them. :cool:

That is absolutely Awesome! I've always wanted to see how they used to organize the bus routes before certain stations, or even entire LRT lines, were open. I moved here just after the last batch of stations ending with Dalhousie opened, so I never got a chance to pick up any of the older maps.

[mersar]

Noticed this afternoon that the XRT bridges over the offramp at Crowchild have their abutments poured now. They've also filled in the median to make it level with the existing road surface so the construction crews can move around easier, so don't expect to see any LRT construction for quite a while yet (as per the schedule)

[You Need A Thneed]

PCL has their signs up, and has dropped off construction trailers at both the Martindale and Saddletowne stations. Expect to see construction starting very soon on the stations.

[McPaul]

Well the spring service revisions are out, effective march 8th. Not too much of note except that theres more adjustments of travel times to a number of routes, lots of downgrading routes to shuttles off peak and weekends. #86 does get a trip added as does the 301, and CTrain service now starts earlier as well. The 201 now has a first trip at 3:17am out of Anderson (before it was 3:37am, though currently first out of Somerset is 3:28am which doesn't change), the 202 gains one at 3:41am from city hall outbound. The 456 is the only route to be changed in terms of routing, it now goes all the way north to 14th ave then through Aspen Hills.

hmm, too bad.

I was hoping for the 430 to be extended to McKnight station.

[TransitSupporter]

That is absolutely Awesome! I've always wanted to see how they used to organize the bus routes before certain stations, or even entire LRT lines, were open. I moved here just after the last batch of stations ending with Dalhousie opened, so I never got a chance to pick up any of the older maps.

A few years ago I went to the City of Calgary Archives - I think it was on the ground floor of the Calgary Health Services building next to Old City Hall, but my memory may be wrong on that.

They have all kinds of route maps and schedules from the 60's and 70's and before as I recall. It's worth the trip. Lots of fascinating CT memorabilia.

Only open M-F so you have to go on your lunch hour if you work downtown.

[Big Sky]

:previous: Good to hear.

OK, I'm a Transit Geek.....I admit, but now I can prove it. I just won some 1978 CT schedules and maps on eBay. As they are pre-LRT, should be an interesting look at our transit past. I'll post a few when I receive them. :cool:

I'd love to see that!

[jeffwhit]

I picked up two great books at the Library:

Calgary's Electric Transit; An Illustrated History

and

Calgary Transit A Centennial History

both must-reads for you nerds. ;)

[freeweed]

I bought a copy of the first one a few years back at a garage sale. Inside the book was a CT employee's ID card from the 1970s or so. The book must have been given to employees at some point, either as a gift or recognition item of some sort.

The family selling it was clearly the guy's grandkids. Always fun to buy heirlooms with a bit of history.

[Wooster]

I figured out where the NC LRT route is going...

Edmonton! Why just by-pass neighbourhoods like Mount Pleasant and Tuxedo, when you can by-pass Calgary altogether!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h4vWH3OQ-Yo&feature=player_embedded

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v311/joshwhit/grantmc.jpg

[frinkprof]

Nevermind.

[You Need A Thneed]

Uggh, that would be a loooooooong trip at a max speed of 80 km/h.

[DarkKeyo]

hmm, too bad.

I was hoping for the 430 to be extended to McKnight station.

I like this idea. Increasing the frequency so it serves as an effective crosstown route would be great too.

A few years ago I went to the City of Calgary Archives - I think it was on the ground floor of the Calgary Health Services building next to Old City Hall, but my memory may be wrong on that.

They have all kinds of route maps and schedules from the 60's and 70's and before as I recall. It's worth the trip. Lots of fascinating CT memorabilia.

Only open M-F so you have to go on your lunch hour if you work downtown.

I picked up two great books at the Library:

Calgary's Electric Transit; An Illustrated History

and

Calgary Transit A Centennial History

both must-reads for you nerds. ;)

Thanks! I'll be sure to check those out.

I figured out where the NC LRT route is going...

Edmonton! Why just by-pass neighbourhoods like Mount Pleasant and Tuxedo, when you can by-pass Calgary altogether!



Awesome! Someone apparently can't tell the difference between red trains and blue trains?

[KrisYYC]

Out of nerdy curiosity, does CT keep ridership stats for individual routes?

I'm curious to know which bus routes are the city's busiest. I'd imagine the #3 and the 72/73 circle route would be up there.

[mersar]

Out of nerdy curiosity, does CT keep ridership stats for individual routes?

I'm curious to know which bus routes are the city's busiest. I'd imagine the #3 and the 72/73 circle route would be up there.

They've never published any to my knowledge but they do track ridership (both automatically on some buses and manually by drivers on others). It would be a pretty safe bet that routes 1-7, 20, and the 72/73 make up most if not all of the top 10 if you exclude the BRT routes which are way up there too.

[frinkprof]

Nevermind.

[srperrycgy]

I have CT's Route Evaluation Guide from Spring 2008 as a PDF. It was included in LPT2008-34, so I grabbed a copy. If anyone wants a copy, PM me with your e-mail.

[Bassic Lab]

^I don't know of anything that is public.

The busiest routes, based on anecdotal evidence are:

1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7/107, 19/119, 20, 32, 72/73, 101, 104, 301

There was a news article that listed the Centre Street corridor as containing the city's heaviest bus ridership. It gave a number in the 30 000 range. It combined at least the 3 and the 301 but only the portions on Centre Street. That is the only bus figure I've ever seen released. It was interesting because it already beats most LRT lines in North America.

[jeffwhit]

There was a news article that listed the Centre Street corridor as containing the city's heaviest bus ridership. It gave a number in the 30 000 range. It combined at least the 3 and the 301 but only the portions on Centre Street. That is the only bus figure I've ever seen released. It was interesting because it already beats most LRT lines in North America.

^^All the more reason to build the NC LRT IN THE MIDDLE OF FREAKIN NOWHERE.

[frinkprof]

Nevermind.

[srperrycgy]

I received a big package in the mail from New York this morning. Yes, the 1978 CT pocket schedules and maps I mentioned. :) Fascinating stuff. I'm in the process of scanning the materials. The large network map is great and its incredible to see Calgary so small compared to now. I'll post that when I can stitch the scans together, but here are some of the individual maps:

http://members.shaw.ca/steve.perry/1978Route1.jpg

http://members.shaw.ca/steve.perry/1978Route1A.jpg

http://members.shaw.ca/steve.perry/1978Route2.jpg

http://members.shaw.ca/steve.perry/1978Route3.jpg

http://members.shaw.ca/steve.perry/1978Route4.jpg

http://members.shaw.ca/steve.perry/1978Route6.jpg

http://members.shaw.ca/steve.perry/1978Route7.jpg

http://members.shaw.ca/steve.perry/1978Route8.jpg

http://members.shaw.ca/steve.perry/1978Route9.jpg

No Route 10 map in the materials.

http://members.shaw.ca/steve.perry/1978Route11.jpg

http://members.shaw.ca/steve.perry/1978Route12.jpg

http://members.shaw.ca/steve.perry/1978Route13.jpg

http://members.shaw.ca/steve.perry/1978Route14.jpg

http://members.shaw.ca/steve.perry/1978Route15.jpg

http://members.shaw.ca/steve.perry/1978Route16.jpg

http://members.shaw.ca/steve.perry/1978Route17.jpg

http://members.shaw.ca/steve.perry/1978Route18.jpg

http://members.shaw.ca/steve.perry/1978Route19.jpg

More to come. :cool:

[frinkprof]

Nevermind.

[McPaul]

Very nice!!! Great work.

but... why did the Calgary plans come from New York?

[srperrycgy]

Very nice!!! Great work.

but... why did the Calgary plans come from New York?

That's where the eBay seller I bought it from was located.

[srperrycgy]

Route 20 - Northmount Crosstown
http://members.shaw.ca/steve.perry/1978Route20.jpg

Route 21 - Spruce Cliff
http://members.shaw.ca/steve.perry/1978Route21.jpg

Route 23 - Silver Springs North
http://members.shaw.ca/steve.perry/1978Route23.jpg

Route 24 - Ogden
http://members.shaw.ca/steve.perry/1978Route24.jpg

Route 25 - Chinook-University
http://members.shaw.ca/steve.perry/1978Route25.jpg

Route 26 - Dover
http://members.shaw.ca/steve.perry/1978Route26.jpg

Route 27 - Glenmore
http://members.shaw.ca/steve.perry/1978Route27.jpg

Route 28 - Varsity Acres-Dalhousie
http://members.shaw.ca/steve.perry/1978Route28.jpg


Route 29 - Queensland/Canyon Meadows
http://members.shaw.ca/steve.perry/1978Route29.jpg

Route 30 - Highfield Feeder
http://members.shaw.ca/steve.perry/1978Route30.jpg

Route 31 - Downtown Shuttle
http://members.shaw.ca/steve.perry/1978Route31.jpg

Route 32 - Airport Industrial
http://members.shaw.ca/steve.perry/1978Route32.jpg

Route 33 - Vista Heights/Mayland Heights Feeder
http://members.shaw.ca/steve.perry/1978Route33.jpg

Route 34 - Pineridge Feeder
http://members.shaw.ca/steve.perry/1978Route34.jpg

Route 35 - Sunalta
http://members.shaw.ca/steve.perry/1978Route35.jpg

Route 36 - Foothills
http://members.shaw.ca/steve.perry/1978Route36.jpg

Route 37 - Silver Springs South
http://members.shaw.ca/steve.perry/1978Route37.jpg

Route 38 - Temple
http://members.shaw.ca/steve.perry/1978Route38.jpg

Route 39 - Woodlands
http://members.shaw.ca/steve.perry/1978Route39.jpg

Route 40 - 17th Avenue Feeder
http://members.shaw.ca/steve.perry/1978Route40.jpg

Route 41 - Lynnwood
http://members.shaw.ca/steve.perry/1978Route41.jpg

Route 42 - Ranchlands
http://members.shaw.ca/steve.perry/1978Route43.jpg

Route 44 - Franklin Park
http://members.shaw.ca/steve.perry/1978Route44.jpg

Route 45 - Rundle
http://members.shaw.ca/steve.perry/1978Route45.jpg

[srperrycgy]

"Pennant" Express Routes. These routes had the Red Bus Stop signs.

Route 60 - Altadore-Lakeview Express
http://members.shaw.ca/steve.perry/EXPRoute60.jpg

Route 61 - Dover Express
http://members.shaw.ca/steve.perry/EXPRoute61.jpg

Route 62 - Whitehorn Express
http://members.shaw.ca/steve.perry/EXPRoute62.jpg

Route 63 - Lakeview via Crowchild Express
http://members.shaw.ca/steve.perry/EXPRoute63.jpg

Route 64 - Richmond Express
http://members.shaw.ca/steve.perry/EXPRoute64.jpg

Route 65 - Braeside-Palliser-Oakridge Express
http://members.shaw.ca/steve.perry/EXPRoute65.jpg

Route 66 - Southwood Express
http://members.shaw.ca/steve.perry/EXPRoute66.jpg

Route 67 - Canyon Meadows Express
http://members.shaw.ca/steve.perry/EXPRoute67.jpg

Route 68 - Silver Springs South Express
http://members.shaw.ca/steve.perry/EXPRoute68.jpg

Route 69 - Pineridge Express
http://members.shaw.ca/steve.perry/EXPRoute69.jpg

Route 70 - Oakridge Express
http://members.shaw.ca/steve.perry/EXPRoute70.jpg

Route 71 - Huntington Hills Express
http://members.shaw.ca/steve.perry/EXPRoute71.jpg

Route 72 - Queensland Express
http://members.shaw.ca/steve.perry/EXPRoute72.jpg

Route 74 - Silver Springs North Express
http://members.shaw.ca/steve.perry/EXPRoute74.jpg

Blue Arrow Express Routes (BRT-like)

Route 101 - Blue Arrow South
http://members.shaw.ca/steve.perry/BlueArrow101.jpg

Route 102 - Blue Arrow North/South
http://members.shaw.ca/steve.perry/BlueArrow102.jpg

Route 103 - Blue Arrow North/South
http://members.shaw.ca/steve.perry/BlueArrow103.jpg

Route 110 - Blue Arrow East/West
http://members.shaw.ca/steve.perry/BlueArrow110.jpg

Route 111 - Blue Arrow East
http://members.shaw.ca/steve.perry/BlueArrow111.jpg

Lots of historical information to digest here. ;)

[DarkKeyo]

Absolutely AWESOME! Thanks, srperrycgy!

[frinkprof]

Nevermind.

[Vascilli]

It sort of freaks me out that the 101 hasn't always been what it is now.

[srperrycgy]

That's why I bid on these; to see how the system worked before the LRT existed. :cool:

[SubwayRev]

Cool. Funny how they called the terminal points "Heritage Station" and "Southland Station" before the LRT had been built. Of course, being in 1978 these future stations would have been planned if not under construction.

Looks like a few routes haven't changed at all (3, 7, 9, 13), or have changed very little. Looks like the only thing about the route 2 is that it is longer now, going as far as 69th Street West.

And it wasn't extended until the late 90's or early Oughts. (If I recall correctly) It was basically unchanged for 20+ years, as the city didn't expand that way at all in that time. I always found that weird...Westgate, etc. were built in the 60's, and Signal Hill, which is across the street, wasn't developed until the 90's. Even Strathcona and Coach hill didn't start development until the 80's; almost a generation later.

Very cool srperrycgy! Thanks for posting that!

[frinkprof]

Nevermind.

[shreddog]

Love that route 31 ....

[You Need A Thneed]

Route 38 is still called the same thing today, serves the same community, but only uses about 800 metres of the current route.

[McMahon]

So, according to 27, Rockyview was previously known as Glenmore Hospital. Is that right?

[mersar]

So, according to 27, Rockyview was previously known as Glenmore Hospital. Is that right?

Not quite. Theres a second facility adjacent to the Rockyview thats called the "Glenmore Auxiliary Hospital" that predates the Rockyview, and is now operated by CareWest as a nursing home that is likely what that refers to. I'm not sure when the Rockyview was built, but I believe it was early 80's.

[SubwayRev]

Anyway, my grandparents bought their house in Westgate in 1961, and lived there for over 40 years. My grandmother told me that once talks started heating up about developments going up on the west hill (Strathcona, etc.) that someone from their community association came around asking to sign a petition to halt these developments with arguments like there would be people peering down the hill into the backyards and windows of Westgate homes, traffic, noise, etc.

So...in the 70's it was from hills and today it's from C-train bridges. Calgarians have an unstoppable urge to peer into windows and backyards from loftier vantage points I guess!

[evolv]

Anyone know when 3rd st station is supposed to open up? Looks almost done

[mersar]

Anyone know when 3rd st station is supposed to open up? Looks almost done

This Friday.

[McPaul]

That's where the eBay seller I bought it from was located.

ahh, yes. You mentioned ebay.

Interesting maps.

I noticed that Heritage and Southland were referred to as "stations", but Anderson was not. Neither was Chinook. Was Chinook Mall around that long ago? why was the area called "Chinook" when there are no roads of that name.

Also, nothing above Chinook was referred to as a station.

They mention feeder busses a lot. They seem to be feeding people to where the stations are now, and then when they get to that point, did they take the express bus to downtown? There certainly were a ton of express busses for the time, weren't there?

and FIFTEEN CENTS?!?!

I know it was 1978, but c'mon, man!!

Fantastic work, sperry!

[srperrycgy]

Here is the 1978 Fare Structure:

Adults: $0.40
Children (under 14): $0.25
Students (Grade 12 and under): $0.25
Express Buses: Regular Fare + $0.05
Downtown Shuttle: $0.15
Dogs: (service dogs exempt) $0.50
Monthly Pass: $16.00

[mersar]

I noticed that Heritage and Southland were referred to as "stations", but Anderson was not. Neither was Chinook. Was Chinook Mall around that long ago? why was the area called "Chinook" when there are no roads of that name.

The station is named after the mall, which even in the late 70's had already been there a while in some form. The first of the two malls that eventually merged into Chinook opened in 1960.

I suspect the 'station' part of the name was given previously for the park and ride lots with bus loops. I'm not sure the history of the park and rides, but I suspect there may not have been one at Anderson at the time, nor at Chinook. I do see a park and ride listed at McMahon but its quite likely there was no bus loop there then (or now) so it didn't have the station name either.

[TransitSupporter]

Not quite. Theres a second facility adjacent to the Rockyview thats called the "Glenmore Auxiliary Hospital" that predates the Rockyview, and is now operated by CareWest as a nursing home that is likely what that refers to. I'm not sure when the Rockyview was built, but I believe it was early 80's.

The original Rockyview Hosp (now the Fisher wing - units 46,47,48,49 and 56,56,58,59) was built in ~1962. The Highwood Wing (the newer taller tower where the emergency is located) was opened in ~1984, An expansion to 10 floors opened last year and another expansion to the south is currently underway.

[frinkprof]

Nevermind.

[MalcolmTucker]

^ Well thats a good thing, the Q3 numbers were just really messed up I guess.

[frinkprof]

Nevermind.

[You Need A Thneed]

SAIT/ACAD/Jubilee -> SAIT - The existing name is just too long. Change for simplicity.

Instead of being shortened, it should be lengthened to offically be "SOuthern Alberta Institute of Technology / Alberta College of Art and Design / Southern Alberta Jubilee Auditorium".

Might as well go for a world record, or something.

Agreed on pretty much all else, except I'd name the vic park station "Stampede"

Or we could be really annoying, name 45th Street "Westgate", name 69th street "Westside Rec Centre", and 11th street " Downtown West" or "West End"

[mersar]

Instead of being shortened, it should be lengthened to offically be "SOuthern Alberta Institute of Technology / Alberta College of Art and Design / Southern Alberta Jubilee Auditorium".

Might as well go for a world record, or something.

Except for SAIT is no longer an acronym, the official name is "SAIT Polytechnic" as of 2004.

[You Need A Thneed]

Except for SAIT is no longer an acronym, the official name is "SAIT Polytechnic" as of 2004.

Fine, we can call it "Southern Alberta Institute of Technology Polytechnic / Alberta College of Art and Design / Southern Alberta Jubilee Auditorium".

[frinkprof]

Nevermind.

[Dado]

NW



Tuscany -> Rocky Ridge - I like that they finally chose to just go with the name of one of the nearby communities for this one. However, the name of "Tuscany" for a suburban residential community in a Canadian prairie city is just absurd. That leaves Royal Oak and Rocky Ridge, and again, Rocky Ridge, to me, is the least contrived of those. I would choose Eamon as a name if the station (or more properly, the Park N' Ride) weren't wiping the Eamon camp out. Maybe just rename the community and have the station take that name. If it weren't going to be a terminal station so long, I'd probably be more agreeable with the contrived "Tuscany" moniker.


Nothing wrong with naming the station after whatever it is wiping out. It's still a name with a real history to it.

Here in Ottawa we have a station named "Tunney's Pasture". The station itself is not named after Mr. Tunney's pasture; rather it's named after the federal government office complex of the same name that it serves which was built on Mr. Tunney's old pasture.

So go ahead and name it "Eamon Station" or even "Camp Eamon Station". Let the name survive on through time as a homage to what went before.

[DarkKeyo]

I agree with most of those name changes. 'Memorial', 'Mcknight, and 'Bridlewood' (how did that name even get in there?) are kind of pointless. With adding 'Stampede' or 'Max Bell' to the name, its sort of useful, but then why not add 'McMahon'? Eamon sounds better than any of the alternatives, as do Mewata and Rosscarrock. Naming 69 St something else would be nice too.

As for 39th Ave... That depends on what they're going to do with it in the future. It looks like a 4-car platform could be crammed in there... but I don't think a 5 car one could be. Turning that station into two, one a bit further north (Parkhill?) and south (Manchester?) would cover more of the ridiculously large gap in that part of the line... if there is anywhere to put the stations (they didn't leave space, unlike the Northland station I want). Thoughts on that?

[frinkprof]

Nevermind.

[DarkKeyo]

Instead of putting more stations on LRT lines in the densifying inner city, I'd like to see streetcars be implemented to provide that more local-level of service. Speaking to the stretch between 39th Ave. and Chinook, I'd like to see a MacLeod Trail streetcar going from downtown until Chinook, and then maybe switching to Elbow Drive and then continuing further south.

I like the idea of streetcars on the busier inner-city routes too. 17th, 14th, etc.

[h0twired]

I like the idea of streetcars on the busier inner-city routes too. 17th, 14th, etc.

Why? So they can sit in traffic with the rest of the vehicles on the road?

[bigcanuck]

Yeah, I thought about this one for a bit. Problem is that the nearest community is Aspen, but the next station will be in the community of Aspen Woods. The next-nearest community is Christie Park, but that is also adjacent to the Sirocco Station. There's 3 schools that will be nearby, but which do you name the station after? Then I thought maybe an allusion to the prevalance of schools by naming it something like "Campus," but someone might make the mistake of thinking that the U of C is there, plus it's not really one campus. The Westside Rec Centre is there, but then you run into the problem of the overuse of the word "West." The biggest thing with that station is that nothing fits or fully defines it, other than the road it is crossing, 69th Street.

I think the station is actually in Springborough in the community of Springbank Hill. Either of which would be appropriate names though the name 'Springbank' may give people the impression that it's actually west of 101st Street.

[MalcolmTucker]

Why? So they can sit in traffic with the rest of the vehicles on the road?

If you need the capacity, street cars since you can reduce the driver to passenger ratio can save money. The also help to shape development patterns and other such things. By removing buses you can end up with less congestion if you have been running too many buses (like lets say Centre St, if the subway was taken off the table)

That being said, streetcars unless paid for by a local TIF or levy should not be built until the primary C-Train network is done.

[fusili]

If you need the capacity, street cars since you can reduce the driver to passenger ratio can save money. The also help to shape development patterns and other such things. By removing buses you can end up with less congestion if you have been running too many buses (like lets say Centre St, if the subway was taken off the table)

That being said, streetcars unless paid for by a local TIF or levy should not be built until the primary C-Train network is done.

I would say that once the SE and NC LRTs are done, a streetcar system should be built. In regards to Hotwired's comments, streetcars can run in dedicated lanes if need be. They don't have to run in regular traffic.

[frinkprof]

Nevermind.

[Riise]

That being said, streetcars unless paid for by a local TIF or levy should not be built until the primary C-Train network is done.

This is an interesting perspective as I assume you are prioritizing the completion of a light rapid rail network before a supplementary tram network. However, I have to ask why?

Why should inter-neighbourhood networks have priority over intra-neighbourhood networks? Why should the transit needs of new suburban residents have priority over the transit needs of new inner-city residents? Why should the extension of the CTrain deeper into the suburbs, which arguably contributes to urban sprawl, have priority over establishing a tram network in the inner-city, which would help with the City's goal of slowing down outward growth through the encouragement of inner-city development, redevelopment and infilling?

On a slightly related tangent, why should inner-city developments have to cover the transit costs that much costlier suburban developments don't have to cover through SDAs?

Nonetheless, I do like the concept that you described; planning gain. It is basically an attempt by local planning authorities to reap some of the benefits associated with the increase in the value of land that they service with the necessary infrastructure needed for development or redevelopment. Planning gain is sought in addition to planning obligations that are sought to cover the full cost of providing the aforementioned infrastructure.

[fusili]

:previous: Good response Riise. Funding inequalities always abound when talking about infrastructure for inner-city vs suburban development.

[outoftheice]

So the new 3rd Street station opened today.... one step closer to completing the new look for 7th Ave. Did anyone happen to make use of the new station today?? I know it's been discussed before, but has anybody actually gotten an answer as to why the new stations don't seem to feature any art-work on them like the others?

[Wooster]

What would people propose as inner city streetcar routes?

Mine would look something like this.

Streetcar red, LRT blue

1. An 11th, 12th ave Beltline loop from the Sunalta LRT station to Railtown
2. A centre city loop - 3rd ave, Macleod in either direction, 17th ave, 8th street.
3. 14th street/marda loop. Winter club to MRU.
4. Another strong candidate would be 17th ave SE
5. potentially centre street (assuming NCLRT went up Nose creek) that could run centre then onto 4th street and head toward the SLRT line.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v311/joshwhit/streetcarinner-1.jpg

An older version of a similar network I thought of, building on Beltliners grand scheme.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v311/joshwhit/streetcarlrt.jpg

[unibrain]

So the new 3rd Street station opened today.... one step closer to completing the new look for 7th Ave. Did anyone happen to make use of the new station today?? I know it's been discussed before, but has anybody actually gotten an answer as to why the new stations don't seem to feature any art-work on them like the others?

I was under the impression that they decided to combine the 7th avenue art into larger and more expensive works to be placed along the avenue. So instead of something small (with a limited budget) for each station along that stretch, something bigger can be purchased and placed on the open spaces.

I'm all for a larger structure such as the "Half K" spanning over an intersection or the 4th St block within the 7th Avenue stretch. I think it would compliment the steel trees on Stephen Avenue.

[DarkKeyo]

So the new 3rd Street station opened today.... one step closer to completing the new look for 7th Ave. Did anyone happen to make use of the new station today?? I know it's been discussed before, but has anybody actually gotten an answer as to why the new stations don't seem to feature any art-work on them like the others?

I used it. It is of course a big improvement over the old one... but I really think the lack of art at each station makes them too similar to each other.

I like Wooster's streetcar system, although I would consider adding one that goes along 4th through downtown, mission, and then connecting to the SLRT.

[srperrycgy]

So the new 3rd Street station opened today.... one step closer to completing the new look for 7th Ave. Did anyone happen to make use of the new station today??

Yep. I rode from 10th St to 3rd this afternoon and grabbed a few pics.

http://members.shaw.ca/LRT3/DT/New3STW-03122010-5.jpg

http://members.shaw.ca/LRT3/DT/New3STW-03122010-6.jpg

There is so much more space here now. The peak-hour crowding on the platform should ease. On board is another matter. :cool: I'm also impressed with the way the platform was integrated with TD Square. The mall entrance on the platform is still being worked on though.

[mersar]

There is so much more space here now. The peak-hour crowding on the platform should ease. On board is another matter. :cool: I'm also impressed with the way the platform was integrated with TD Square. The mall entrance on the platform is still being worked on though.

Yep, the malls interface with the platform is definitely a nice touch. Gives a good example of how the proposed Century Gardens tower should interface at a minimum. The CTrain operator mentioned multiple times as we came into downtown from the NW that the station is back open, and the platform was decently busy, and 6th was noticeably less busy then usual as expected.

[TETT2]

What would people propose as inner city streetcar routes?

Mine would look something like this.

Streetcar red, LRT blue

1. An 11th, 12th ave Beltline loop from the Sunalta LRT station to Railtown
2. A centre city loop - 3rd ave, Macleod in either direction, 17th ave, 8th street.
3. 14th street/marda loop. Winter club to MRU.
4. Another strong candidate would be 17th ave SE
5. potentially centre street (assuming NCLRT went up Nose creek) that could run centre then onto 4th street and head toward the SLRT line.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v311/joshwhit/streetcarinner-1.jpg

An older version of a similar network I thought of, building on Beltliners grand scheme.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v311/joshwhit/streetcarlrt.jpg

Great ideas! I think any beltline loop has to tie into the downtown though. I'm not sure how many people will take it east west... maybe if the density and commercial increases. But I think it would be well used tieing into downtown.
Centre Street would be awesome as long as there is no interference from car traffic... could save some buses too!

*EDIT* I see the intersection with a downtown street car, but that means a transfer :S

[KrisYYC]

What would people propose as inner city streetcar routes?

Mine would look something like this.

Streetcar red, LRT blue

1. An 11th, 12th ave Beltline loop from the Sunalta LRT station to Railtown
2. A centre city loop - 3rd ave, Macleod in either direction, 17th ave, 8th street.
3. 14th street/marda loop. Winter club to MRU.
4. Another strong candidate would be 17th ave SE
5. potentially centre street (assuming NCLRT went up Nose creek) that could run centre then onto 4th street and head toward the SLRT line.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v311/joshwhit/streetcarinner-1.jpg

An older version of a similar network I thought of, building on Beltliners grand scheme.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v311/joshwhit/streetcarlrt.jpg

I like the yellow circle line in the second pic. That would be LRT I'm assuming. It would be our own Yamanote line! :D

Our system would be more about getting around anywhere in the city versus transporting office workers from downtown to the burbs mon-fri 9-5.

[jeffwhit]

I like the yellow circle line in the second pic. That would be LRT I'm assuming. It would be our own Yamanote line! :D

Our system would be more about getting around anywhere in the city versus transporting office workers from downtown to the burbs mon-fri 9-5.

http://beltliner.blogspot.com/search?updated-max=2009-04-29T11%3A32%3A00-06%3A00&max-results=7

you need to read Beltliner's proposal. Starting on this page, a few posts down, and look backwards from there.

[frinkprof]

Nevermind.

[CTrainDude]

Look like City Hall will be shut down this year sometime for the building of the final new platform downtown - at least according to Mac Logan of TI!

http://www.calgarycitynews.com/2010/03/third-street-sw-ctrain-station-opens.html

[frinkprof]

Nevermind.

[frinkprof]

Nevermind.

[yads]

Can anyone tell me how early to the westside rec and sirocco drive lots fill up in the mornings? They're free, so I'm guessing quite early.

[You Need A Thneed]

How long have all the SD160s had LED interior lighting? Weren't they fluorescent to start?

I rode to the hockey game and back, and every car that I saw had LED interior lighting - LED replacement tubes that fit into the fixtures intended for fluorescent bulbs.

[frinkprof]

Nevermind.

[You Need A Thneed]

I think most of the SD160s had LED interior lighting my mid-2009. The installations started in late 2008.

Shows how much I ride the train.

The bulbs probably have just about paid for themselves by now then.

[mooky]

I was thinking, making City Hall a double platform station makes for a great transfer and hub point.... but doesn't by bringing the 3rd street station west, it also help create the same bottle neck they just removed over at 8th street west by moving it one block? That is to reduce head-ways into and out of the core at track switch points?

Maybe I'm wrong, please correct me if I am.

[DarkKeyo]

I was thinking, making City Hall a double platform station makes for a great transfer and hub point.... but doesn't by bringing the 3rd street station west, it also help create the same bottle neck they just removed over at 8th street west by moving it one block? That is to reduce head-ways into and out of the core at track switch points?

Maybe I'm wrong, please correct me if I am.

I've also always thought that this would cancel out any time savings from moving 8th st...

I liked the original plan where they had double platforms at 3rd and 8th better than the current plan too. But, I like the new platforms enough that what we got is good enough.

[mersar]

I was thinking, making City Hall a double platform station makes for a great transfer and hub point.... but doesn't by bringing the 3rd street station west, it also help create the same bottle neck they just removed over at 8th street west by moving it one block? That is to reduce head-ways into and out of the core at track switch points?

Maybe I'm wrong, please correct me if I am.

It won't really introduce a new bottleneck, the existing one will just remain. Due to the timings of the lights and the fact there is a road to cross (which there wasn't before the old 8th Street SW) there aren't too many trains that get stuck waiting for 2nd Street SE that I've noticed, usually you're waiting on the east side of 3rd Street then straight through to Olympic Plaza on a green at both 3rd and 2nd

[frinkprof]

Nevermind.

[freeweed]

What I'm not sure of though, regarding the NW extension, is if this means that it will not be delayed or not be further delayed, since it was already pushed back to 2014. So will it now be bumped up, or remain at a 2014 completion date? Anyone know? I've already checked the XRT blog and project page which haven't been updated.

What I can't figure out is this:

In 2011, Crowchild @ Stoney opens. Fully. With no further work to be done. Which means the LRT bridges and rails are completely in place.

Why will it take 3 freaking years to lay down some track and build a station? Considering the major interchange is done, it should be FASTER than most stations, not slower.

I have to assume it's because of some financing model where only $X is budgeted per year. Why not just total it up and build the damn thing at once, instead of tying up traffic for 3 more years? Vegas can build multi-billion dollar resorts that are a hell of a lot more complex than an LRT station and some track in less than 3 years. I really have a hard time understanding why LRT work takes so long in this city.

Well, I don't, because I've watched the 7th Ave stations sit fallow for days and sometimes weeks at a stretch, so their one year build time really comes down to poor planning more than anything else.

It's just frustrating. Line your ducks up and GO. Don't inconvenience everyone longer than necessary. :hell:

[frinkprof]

Nevermind.

[You Need A Thneed]

Frink, I was wondering the same thing about the NW extension. Also, the same regarding the Metis/64th interchange, as the Herald article mentions that too. Perhaps that will go ahead now, instead of just being left as an intersection with a grade separation for the LRT.

Freeweed, the delay was money related. The city has said that it's delayed due to the money coming from the province slower. The interchange will be completed right away to reduce the major impact on traffic as soon as possible.

[TETT2]

The bolded part is basically the cause of this so far as I can understand. Speaking to XRT specifically, after the project was delayed (again, due to a change in the financing flow structure), the schedule for the LRT work was changed so that it wouldn't begin until 2012. So technically it wouldn't be taking 3 years to finish the track and way and station site work. Of course, that may all have changed again, or not. Not sure.

Ultimately, this really highlights the climate of uncertain funding we're in.

I still think the Tuscany/Rocky Ridge Station is a waste... Could have use the money elsewhere for things such as bus lanes and such.

[lubicon]

I still think the Tuscany/Rocky Ridge Station is a waste... Could have use the money elsewhere for things such as bus lanes and such.

I live in Tuscany and would have to prety much agree with you. The one good thing that this project did was force the province's hand into upgrading the Stoney / Crowchild interchange into it's ultimate configuration. Without the LRT extension to Tuscany/RRRO we would have had traffic lights on the Crowchild portion of this interchange for many more years.

[SmokWawelski]

If they can run an LRT line all the way down to the end of Calgary's south, so the Okotoks and surrounding area crowd can get to work faster :hell: why not run it to the end of NW Calgary. I live in Royal Oak, and I've been waiting for this LRT for years. It would be a 10 minute enjoyable walk from my house to the station:) Now let's get this thing built as soon as possible. No more delays.....

[MasterG]

If they can run an LRT line all the way down to the end of Calgary's south, so the Okotoks and surrounding area crowd can get to work faster :hell: why not run it to the end of NW Calgary. I live in Royal Oak, and I've been waiting for this LRT for years. It would be a 10 minute enjoyable walk from my house to the station:) Now let's get this thing built as soon as possible. No more delays.....

The people on the on the west side have been waiting for their WLRT for alot longer than rocky ridge has even existed :) Only 3 more years.... :slob:

[freeweed]

If they can run an LRT line all the way down to the end of Calgary's south, so the Okotoks and surrounding area crowd can get to work faster :hell: why not run it to the end of NW Calgary. I live in Royal Oak, and I've been waiting for this LRT for years. It would be a 10 minute enjoyable walk from my house to the station:) Now let's get this thing built as soon as possible. No more delays.....

Bingo. Crowfoot is in the middle of freaking nowhere and everyone has to bus to it. OK, so some of the NIMBYs in Scenic Acres might walk to it (those that aren't lobbying for that ridiculous bus-only access to the PnR...), but beyond that it's a car-oriented LRT station. Bus at the very least.

Tuscany, Rocky Ridge, and Royal Oak will have thousands of people within walking distance of the station. And a lot of LRT riders too, with the multifamily concentration close to Crowchild. Hell, I'll be 30-45 mins walk away (about as far away as you can get) and I can easily see myself walking to and from it when the weather's nice.

So many LRT extensions lately have been to commercial/industrial developments (hi Westwinds!), it's about time we have a new station built that's actually CLOSE TO WHERE PEOPLE LIVE.

[You Need A Thneed]

There's a sign up advertising an open house - regarding an upgrade to Whitehorn Station. Will have to check out the date of the open house later today. So, it seems like there is something to those rumours from last year.

EDIT: Here's the information

OPEN HOUSE
Whitehorn LRT Station upgrades
March 31, 2010
6:30 to 8:30 pm
Whitehorn Community Centre.
228 Whitehorn Road NE

[Ferreth]

I'm of the opinion that that City should not have committed to building LRT so far out in the first place. It's just encouraging the kind of sprawl that the city says it wants to limit. In the medium term, the NW line should have been capped at Crowfoot. South should have been capped at Fish Creek. NE is just to the point of justifying the McKnight - Westwinds.

The current expansions in the NW and NE should have been on the 20 year drawing board. 4 car platforms should be being completed NOW. SE LRT should be on the books in the 10 year time frame, however that "Quarry park" area should have been marketed as an initial terminus, with a lot of TOD development rather than high end industrial (I think?).

It's too late for any of this, however - along the same lines of thinking, a longer term plan would be to run a subway up Centre St., planning should be happening NOW to encourage density within 1 block of Centre. I'd be looking at an initial terminus around 32nd Avenue (line jogs to the east to follow Edmonton trail somewhere around 27th Ave) , with the city buying up some of the industrial in the area and moving the bus barns to create another TOD area. I also expect "TOD" to translate into high density living with LRT and basic necessities within walking distance.

[mersar]

Well just let me disagree with your opinion for a bit ;)

The NW line doesn't really encourage any more sprawl, as there's really no where left to sprawl that wouldn't be developed anyways (there won't be another subdivision build anywhere west of Sarcee for many many years, Rocky Ridge/Royal Oak and Tuscany are all bounded by what will be an impenetrable (to developers) sea of acreages that already exist. Even the current stations in the NE aren't exactly encouraging more development, they're going into already developed areas. If they were to start pushing the line past Saddle Ridge then I would buy into the argument for that area. And in the south most of the area surrounding the south line was already well underway when the extension was built. While some of the new communities further south of the terminus do contribute some ridership, the LRT alone has little influence on their development (I've never seen anyone say they moved to Silverado due to the proximity of the LRT, for that matter the two people I know who live in Silverado drive to downtown daily)

And in terms of suggesting the other extensions should be on a 20 year drawing board, really we're at that point. The extension to Crowfoot according to the city's original plans should have been built in 1982. Not 2009. If it had gone through back in the 80's then it would be more akin to if they decided to start building past Saddle Ridge, but building the line past there to the middle of three established communities with a total population of nearly 5% of the city, isn't encouraging anything. Its reacting to something.

The SE LRT will likely have an initial terminus around Quarry Park from the various plans and discussions people have had at events with the city, mainly as thats the likely minimum distance from downtown as its the only real place they could build the maintenance facilities for the line. There will be a decent amount of TOD like development there, the current component thats been built is essentially offices and retail, the southern half of the project is where the residential components will be and I wouldn't be too surprised to see at least some of those in the next couple years now that the rest is there and open. In some ways QP has actually turned into what was originally envisioned for Crowfoot with a mass of both jobs and retail, and will surpass it when the residential starts.