[Radley77]

Thanks folks regarding the retail history at the LRT platforms. I'm actually suprised to hear that they were such bad failures given some of the stations have very high ridership.

If proven commercial, and the benefit to the city would be that it also helps to reduce crime by having more eyes on the platform, then maybe it could be extended to some of the medium ridership stations. Some of the rent collected from the retail shops could be also used to improve LRT service by hiring on some more police to patrol the LRT lines.

The following chart highlights some of the bigger retail opportunities (green and orange) that aren't downtown and have a higher revenue potential.

http://img245.imageshack.us/img245/8109/lrtretailopportunities.png

[frinkprof]

Nevermind.

[DarkKeyo]

Interesting on the regional transit program. I'm not exactly sure how the 15 LRVs work into the scheme, since they likely won't be able to add trips, nor add LRVs to consists to make four car trains until at least 2014. Truth be told, I'd imagine a lot of those LRVs will end up going toward replacement of old ones, which is needed.

Wow, 100 articulated buses isn't anything to sneeze at. The 80 going to Calgary would triple the current fleet of articulated buses. That would probably facilitate complete operation of the route 3, 301, 302, 305 and then see some inclusion on other routes as well like the 19/119.

Yeah, its interesting, and its good to see that things are moving along. I'm looking forward to the display signs at the LRT stops especially.

As for those LRV's, won't we need more than we currently have or will have in 2012 in order to run 4-car trains anyways?

More articulated buses is good. I find your example of the 19/119 to be an odd first choice for articulated buses though. It doesn't have as much ridership as, say, the 2, 6, 7, etc.... because it has absolutely HORRIBLE frequency. Especially on weekends.

As for retail, the future downtown subway stations could have it built in, like Toronto's do. Although it would be a bit redundant in the station(s) under The Core/Bankers Hall. I do think retail at high-use stations would be used if it was provided...

[frinkprof]

Nevermind.

[Dado]

Wow, 100 articulated buses isn't anything to sneeze at. The 80 going to Calgary would triple the current fleet of articulated buses.

Hey, maybe you guys will be getting our trade-in artics!

http://www.ottawacitizen.com/news/Update+Transit+committee+votes+155M+contract/2933628/story.html

"[Ottawa] would get a 19-per-cent discount on the 226 buses, which includes a trade-in credit for the [226] older buses [bought between 2001 and 2004], along with a 10-per-cent discount on the 80 buses it’s planning to buy this year."


I figure that some of these 226 buses we're trading in to New Flyer will be ready for use after refurbishing by the time presented in the schedule for your acquisition of 20 next year and 80 the year after since we're going to start taking delivery of the first 80 new ones in August with all 306 (80 additional + 226 replacements) delivered by March 2011. New Flyer has more than enough time to pick off 20 of our best lemons and send them your way next year, and 80 of the best of the rest the year after!

:D

[frinkprof]

Nevermind.

[DarkKeyo]

So, we aren't getting a second U2 put together from the wrecked ones? I'd somehow got the impression that the 4 most recently wrecked trains each had a half that could be used. And that we'd ordered replacements for all 5 trains that were wrecked, which would have given us a net gain of two trains. Guess not...

[frinkprof]

Nevermind.

[DarkKeyo]

^ Thanks for the info. I find it hard to read CPTDB cause there are a lot of threads that are erratically updated, so I miss most of the news from there.

[magnetite]

I heard a rumor about Calgary Transit putting in something at bus stops which tells you when the next bus is supposed to come. Anyone know if or when they might be implementing this? I know there's the Teleride stop number on there, but that's not what I was thinking of. More of an display screen kind of like at the downtown LRT stations.

[frinkprof]

Nevermind.

[Wooster]

Hopefully they can make BRT stops and some other heavily used routes something like this:

http://i.pbase.com/g4/00/116400/2/60282128.VivaBusStop_1.jpg

[frinkprof]

Nevermind.

[fusili]

Hopefully they can make BRT stops and some other heavily used routes something like this:


For some reason, the image is not showing up on my browser. Anyone else have this problem?

Edit: Fixed. Weird.

[freeweed]

For some reason, the image is not showing up on my browser. Anyone else have this problem?

Edit: Fixed. Weird.

Not showing up for me either.

I figure it's about as interesting as this pic though:

[frinkprof]

Nevermind.

[mersar]

There looks to be some form of anti-hotlinking on the site, the URL for the image Wooster posted is http://i.pbase.com/g4/00/116400/2/60282128.VivaBusStop_1.jpg if you want to see it

[fusili]

Not showing up for me either.

I figure it's about as interesting as this pic though:


Now your picture is not showing up. Wooster's only showed up when I attempted to quote his post, and the [IMG ] [ /IMG] brackets appeared in the quote, which let me view the URL directly. Not working for yours though. Can you post the link?

[frinkprof]

Nevermind.

[fusili]

^Freeweed didn't attempt to post a picture. The non-picture was the joke.

Ah, I get it. Man, I am slow today. Ughhhh, this weather.

[freeweed]

Ah, I get it. Man, I am slow today. Ughhhh, this weather.

My humour today is basically reflecting the weather. On the bright side, the weekend looks gorgeous (relatively).

Speaking of weather, did I mention I had a chance to finally ride on an air conditioned LRT car a few weeks back? It was HEAVEN, and it was only 23 or so out. The funny part was watching the person next to me try to open the window. Not sure why she was doing that (maybe she hates A/C?) but she tried at every stop for 3 or 4 stops. I didn't have the heart to point out that they're obviously bolted shut for a reason.

OK, I lied. I just found it extremely humourous, so I let her have at it.

[fusili]

My humour today is basically reflecting the weather. On the bright side, the weekend looks gorgeous (relatively).

Speaking of weather, did I mention I had a chance to finally ride on an air conditioned LRT car a few weeks back? It was HEAVEN, and it was only 23 or so out. The funny part was watching the person next to me try to open the window. Not sure why she was doing that (maybe she hates A/C?) but she tried at every stop for 3 or 4 stops. I didn't have the heart to point out that they're obviously bolted shut for a reason.

OK, I lied. I just found it extremely humourous, so I let her have at it.

Maybe that is why that douch decided to ride between the cars in that video? Was the air conditioning not enough?

[freeweed]

Maybe that is why that douch decided to ride between the cars in that video? Was the air conditioning not enough?

:haha: Well, that and the large bottle of whiskey he is clearly holding in the video.

[frinkprof]

Nevermind.

[You Need A Thneed]

The tender is out for the construction of a LRT tunnel under 64th Ave as part of the NE LRT extension. To get down below 64th Ave, the existing tail tracks immediately north of McKnight Westwinds are going to be removed, and the new tracks will slope down towards the tunnel just north of the pedestrian crossing to get on the platform.

I'm not exactly sure how the intersection is going to be converted into a full interchagnge in the future.

[mersar]

Well someone beat me to it and asked the city for an electronic copy of the designs for the two 'gateway' stations on twitter, and here they are (http://ow.ly/1IpAs).

http://compscience.info/public/images/2010/gateway_stations-east.jpg
City Hall Station

http://compscience.info/public/images/2010/gateway_stations-west.jpg
11th Street Station

And as a nice treat, a view of 4th Street SW as well:
http://compscience.info/public/images/2010/4thstreetswstation.jpg


And supposedly someone has spotted 2 of the Novabus LFS buses that are on order arriving in Calgary according to a post on cptdb. Not comfirmed yet though.

[Wooster]

Looks good. I almost wish though that the glass simply spanned right over the street. The positioning of the +15 kinda on the east gateway kind of ruins the visual effect though. Overall, I think the 7th ave corridor is turning out quite well.

[srperrycgy]

Thanks for posting mersar. :)

So much construction activity right now that it can be hard to keep track of what is going on. I've created a LRT Construction Information (PDF) sheet:

Link (http://members.shaw.ca/LRTinCalgary/StationConstructionInfo.pdf)

Nice to hear about the Novas, but need some pics of them. :cool:

[freeweed]

That is one SEXY +15! :tup:

[frinkprof]

Nevermind.

[jeffwhit]

^I have to say that I do think pepper spray and a baton is enough for the c-train, (can anyone think of any incident that would have been avoided specifically through the use of firearms? I just don't want guns in confined spaces on a system that's got fairly heavy use) but there needs to be a stronger presence after dark with the authority to arrest. There's a little too much public intoxication, verbal intimidation and open container stuff happening from time to time, and the occasional open drug deal on a platform.

Also, no tasers, cops seem to be a little too happy to taser anything that moves for some reason.

[frinkprof]

Nevermind.

[TETT2]

Hopefully they can make BRT stops and some other heavily used routes something like this:

http://i.pbase.com/g4/00/116400/2/60282128.VivaBusStop_1.jpg

It would be nice to see on Routes 1-10 even. And some other ones that are busy.

Also, I noticed articulated buses on a couple of SW routes out of downtown the other day! lucky buggers!

[TETT2]

^Like I said in the last disucussion of Mar's plan, I don't think it's a guns vs pepper spray problem, it's a lack of presence problem Now one argument to be made is whether the CPS can provide a more efficient service than the Calgary Transit security can just due to better internal policies and management. One thing I do like is, as Chief Hanson says in the article, is the possibility of plainclothes patrols. I think that could be effective.

I think its just the public mentality of CPS vs. Peace Officers...
I also think District 9 has a cool ring to it! :)

[mersar]

It would be nice to see on Routes 1-10 even. And some other ones that are busy.

Also, I noticed articulated buses on a couple of SW routes out of downtown the other day! lucky buggers!

Yep. They've started running the 101 with the D60LFR's in the afternoons now.

[Riise]

^Like I said in the last disucussion of Mar's plan, I don't think it's a guns vs pepper spray problem, it's a lack of presence problem

If this is the case, would we be better served by simply stationing officers at certain stations at night? It might be costly but I think this is one expense Calgarians might be able to swallow without fuss. Also, this is in addition to plain clothes officers riding the rails during all of the CTrain's hours of operation.

[jeffwhit]

^Like I said in the last disucussion of Mar's plan, I don't think it's a guns vs pepper spray problem, it's a lack of presence problem Now one argument to be made is whether the CPS can provide a more efficient service than the Calgary Transit security can just due to better internal policies and management. One thing I do like is, as Chief Hanson says in the article, is the possibility of plainclothes patrols. I think that could be effective.

Actually in that article it's Diane Colley-Urqahart who seems to advocating for armed officers, that's what I was referring to. I agree with you, and John Mar actually.

[Vascilli]

Yep. They've started running the 101 with the D60LFR's in the afternoons now.

I think it might be a pair. I see them in the morning too.

[freeweed]

Put some uniformed officers on the LRT and it might settle down the violent drunks enough that we'd be willing to take the train to games again.

Also during Stampede, please. Although I hope they don't take their jobs TOO seriously - a group of people passing a bottle doesn't hurt anyone, if they're reasonably well behaved. I'd hate to see some draconian crackdown where even the slightest infraction deserves cuffing.

[Yume-sama]

I would be in favor of uniformed police on some LRT, or at least at the stations. Vancouver has *some* at some troublesome stations, and just normal transit police elsewhere. Putting out the idea that there COULD be some plainclothes officers (whether they are or not :P) may help as well. I'm not sure if they do it in Calgary after say, a Flames game, but even in Edmonton when I took the LRT after a game there was heavy police presence at the station, and everyone was very well behaved... despite the Oilers losing 1 - 0 (this was early in the season, so they weren't used to it yet) I've never had a problem with the LRT, but there are always "stories" that everyone hears that gives it, and any public transportation, a bad reputation.

[Riise]

... but even in Edmonton when I took the LRT after a game there was heavy police presence at the station, and everyone was very well behaved...

According to what I gleaned from my Sports Sociology textbook, I did manage to do some light reading during my undergrad, having a heavy police presence might be counter-productive. I think it followed the logic that people, especially the would-be troublemakers, start to feel intimidated or agitated and as a consequence might act out. Nonetheless, they do need to have a recognizable presence.

[Riise]

Hey frink, while you compose the permanent front page you post the CTrain thread I made for SSC if you'd like. Here it is:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d3/Calgary_LRT4.jpg
Source: Wikipedia.org


Info

General
Location: Calgary, Canada
Opened: 25 May 1981
Operator: Calgary Transit
Type: Light Rail/Rapid Transit

Stats
Length: 48.8km
Number of Lines: 3
Number of Stations: 37
Daily Ridership: 266,100

Technical
Gauge: Standard
Powered By: Electricity
Power Source: Overhead Wires
Rolling Stock: Siemens-Duewag U2 + Siemens SD-160

Lines
201 - Somerset/Bridlewood-Crowfoot
202 - McKnight/Westwinds-City Centre

Pictures
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2541/3886327834_0dd9ec1602.jpg
Source: Surrealplaces@flickr

http://content.calgary.ca/NR/rdonlyres/ei4b4zhrri3xji2v6wgh2kks3ada2jssfg5lradsdtomo7of6qlxfb4a3kxfodg6jso6hoa3wlrhnhqdc6l26uadh5b/ctrain_bridge.jpg
Source: calgary.ca

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/120/284720401_8ee783bc53.jpg
Source: Floating Imitations@flickr

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/77/CTrainCrow.JPG/800px-CTrainCrow.JPGG
Source: Wikipedia.org

http://www.cubik.ca/~luke/Calgary24March2007/p3240423.jpg
Source: The Chemist@skyscraperpage

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3177/2449194761_1ce5f349de_o.jpg
Source:Surrealplaces@skyscraperpage

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2750/4445753162_0650f03ede_b.jpg
Source:Surrealplaces@skyscraperpage

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3626/3387886541_eafc782b74_b.jpg
Source:Surrealplaces@skyscraperpage

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2690/4369669480_2ef1dcc0d2_b.jpg
Source:Surrealplaces@skyscraperpage

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4063/4325309981_882c499898_b.jpg
Source: Surrealplaces@skyscraperpage


Current Development

West LRT
Length: 8km
Number of Stations: 6
Category: Line Expansion
Targeted Completion Date: 2012

NELRT Extension
Length: 2.9km
Number of Stations: 2
Category: Line Extension
Targeted Completion Date: 2012

NWLRT Extension
Length: 2.5km
Number of Stations: 1
Category: Line Extension
Targeted Completion Date: 2014

7th Avenue Transit Mall Refurbishment
Length: 0.0km
Number of Stations: -1*
Category: Line Refurbishment
Targeted Completion Date: 2012

*Due to station twinning there will be a net reduction in stations.


Future Development

Downtown Subway
Length: TBD
Number of Stations: 5
Category: Line Movement
Targeted Completion Date: 2017

SELRT
Length: TBD
Number of Stations: 10
Category: Brand New Line
Targeted Completion Date: 2023

NCLRT
Length: TBD
Number of Stations: 10*
Category: Brand New Line
Targeted Completion Date: TBD

*Subject to change.

[frinkprof]

Nevermind.

[freeweed]

According to what I gleaned from my Sports Sociology textbook, I did manage to do some light reading during my undergrad, having a heavy police presence might be counter-productive. I think it followed the logic that people, especially the would-be troublemakers, start to feel intimidated or agitated and as a consequence might act out. Nonetheless, they do need to have a recognizable presence.

Quite true. You definitely don't want TOO much of a presence, and like I said earlier, you don't want them trying to crack down on every minor thing.

Coupla kids swear a bit on the LRT? Let it slide, even if our stupid laws technically say that's illegal. Coupla guys start shoving each other into other passengers? That's when you do something.

PS: that LRT map above says 2012 for Tuscany station. :hell:

[frinkprof]

Nevermind.

[DizzyEdge]

Hey frink, while you compose the permanent front page you post the CTrain thread I made for SSC if you'd like. Here it is:

Wow 2012 is going to be an epic LRT year. (assuming the world doesn't end ;) )

[frinkprof]

Nevermind.

[Riise]

^Thanks Riise. Didn't know you were a member at SSC. I'll use that for now, with credit of course. Just need the code. Either take it out of the quotes in your above post, or PM me the code. Thanks.

Your welcome. For the most part I only lurk on SSP as Calgary does not have that big of a presence there, but with the larger international audience I though I'd provide something I know a little bit about. I'll remove the double quotation from my earlier post so you can grab the code from it.

[Radley77]

City of Calgary News Blog, (May 10, 2010), Construction on 7th Ave LRT Enters Final Phase (http://www.calgarycitynews.com/2010/05/construction-on-7th-ave-lrt-enters.html)

vCY1U-959WU

[mersar]

Thanks for posting that. Interesting to hear the tidbit about the 8th ave subway, though did I hear correct that they want it to be 5 car?

[frinkprof]

Nevermind.

[fusili]

^Yup. 5 car platforms for 8th Avenue Subway. Makes sense. You would hate to build 4 cars and then 15 or 20 years later realize you need to expand to 5 cars, or put a new line in there that will be 5 car capacity, etc. See the Canada Line in Vancouver.

Then why, why oh why, are they upgrading to 4 cars now on the NW/S line instead of 5?

[freeweed]

Then why, why oh why, are they upgrading to 4 cars now on the NW/S line instead of 5?

Waaaaay cheaper to go from 4 to 5 on the aboveground stations compared to underground.

To be honest I'm happy they're not over-expanding. It won't be used for years, and it just confuses people. Even right now on 7th Ave, people often don't know where the train is gonna stop. Imagine with 5 car platforms.

[frinkprof]

Nevermind.

[fusili]

Waaaaay cheaper to go from 4 to 5 on the aboveground stations compared to underground.

To be honest I'm happy they're not over-expanding. It won't be used for years, and it just confuses people. Even right now on 7th Ave, people often don't know where the train is gonna stop. Imagine with 5 car platforms.

My concern is not so much over construction timing, but on station design. Will they be redesigning stations so they can accommodate 5 cars. I know places like Lion's Park, SAIT and Sunnyside will have issues with 5 car trains, not sure about the South line. They will not necessarily have to build the full platform length, but they will have to ensure that expansion is possible in the future. I am not sure they are currently doing this. If the plan is for 5 car expansion in the future, they should be doing this now.

[frinkprof]

Nevermind.

[freeweed]

My concern is not so much over construction timing, but on station design. Will they be redesigning stations so they can accommodate 5 cars. I know places like Lion's Park, SAIT and Sunnyside will have issues with 5 car trains, not sure about the South line. They will not necessarily have to build the full platform length, but they will have to ensure that expansion is possible in the future. I am not sure they are currently doing this. If the plan is for 5 car expansion in the future, they should be doing this now.

Ah, good point. If they AREN'T planning for 5 cars within 20 years, they're complete idiots. I'm just spoiled with the newer NW stations, with them it's just a matter of extending a concrete apron so I always assume it's a trivial thing. Hadn't really thought about the stations themselves hindering expansion.

[frinkprof]

Nevermind.

[fusili]

Question for regular transit (specifically LRT) commuters during the past 4 years or so. I'm involved in a discussion of transit on another forum. When asked about pet peeves, one person responded with this:



Then, in response to someone's desire for 5 minute headways at all times of the day, the same person responded with this:



Now, is it just me or is this way off base? Not saying delays don't occur, but nearly every day, for 20+ minutes? Maybe during the work-to-rule situation in 2007? Passing out on trains? Is that a common occurance?

Now, I used to take the train every day (and I do mean every single day), but that was some time ago, so I'm just wondering if I can hear some thoughts from people who do so currently.

I know a girl who takes the 301 to work (our BRT). She says in bad weather it is consistently 20 minutes late. Ridiculous for a supposed rapid transit system.

[bigcanuck]

I know a girl who takes the 301 to work (our BRT). She says in bad weather it is consistently 20 minutes late. Ridiculous for a supposed rapid transit system.

I take the 301 during rush hour from the west side of the city - I have for over 1 year (and for at least 2 out of the past 3 years). I can probably count on 1 hand the number of times I had to wait more than 15 minutes for the 301 - even during the harshest winter storms this year. I can recall one of the massive Friday afternoon storms we had last November (December?) where leaving downtown I had to wait about 30 minutes - I ended up hopping on a 101 and walking to my car since I figured it was better to simply get out of the core than wait it out.

I have no complaints with the 301. It's rapid enough for me.

[freeweed]

frink, that's way WAY WAAAAAAY off base.

On delays - bull, complete bull. A 20 minute delay implies that the entire train line is not moving for 20 minutes. 3 times a week? Please. I think it happens about once a month for me in the winter. I've NEVER EVER seen an hour long delay, unless the entire system is shut down due to an accident or massive power failure. That's not a delay, that's "you get on the transit shuttle bus and ride a few stops down". That MIGHT happen once a year.

On heat - bull. Some days it's intolerably hot for me, but I'm the type who finds 20C too warm unless I'm in shorts. I have a hard time believing anyone passes out on the C-Train unless they have major medical problems.

On headway - downtown during the rush is almost always < 5 mins. Coming in from the burbs, same thing.

Again, these people are implying that ALL trains are stopped for ridiculous lengths of time. Not possible, the platforms would be jam-packed.

These people are just hyperbolic whiners.

[mersar]

Now, is it just me or is this way off base? Not saying delays don't occur, but nearly every day, for 20+ minutes? Maybe during the work-to-rule situation in 2007? Passing out on trains? Is that a common occurance?

I take the train pretty much every day, and maybe once a week theres a 5-10 minute delay, and even then usually not even as bad as they say. The worst I've had so far this year was about 30 minutes after a train stalled in the Crowchild tunnel. Half the time even when they say theres a delay you don't notice it, as if the entire system is running 10 minutes behind its still running with the same frequency for the most part.

I've never seen someone pass out due to the heat, and if anything on the SD160's at least there should never be a problem with the new HVAC systems they've installed. I've never even heard of a 4 hour delay, usually once its been 30 minutes and they know things aren't improving they start arranging shuttles. Only way I can even phathom 4 hours is if it was during the work to rule campaign.

[frinkprof]

Nevermind.

[frinkprof]

Nevermind.

[xAnderblaze]

So when is the 8th Ave subway study going to be released?

[DizzyEdge]

I know a girl who takes the 301 to work (our BRT). She says in bad weather it is consistently 20 minutes late. Ridiculous for a supposed rapid transit system.

Subtle bragging about knowing a girl post.

[mersar]

So when is the 8th Ave subway study going to be released?

Later this year I believe is the latest ETA thats been mentioned.

[faxri]

frink, that's way WAY WAAAAAAY off base.

On delays - bull, complete bull. A 20 minute delay implies that the entire train line is not moving for 20 minutes. 3 times a week? Please. I think it happens about once a month for me in the winter. I've NEVER EVER seen an hour long delay, unless the entire system is shut down due to an accident or massive power failure. That's not a delay, that's "you get on the transit shuttle bus and ride a few stops down". That MIGHT happen once a year.

On heat - bull. Some days it's intolerably hot for me, but I'm the type who finds 20C too warm unless I'm in shorts. I have a hard time believing anyone passes out on the C-Train unless they have major medical problems.

On headway - downtown during the rush is almost always < 5 mins. Coming in from the burbs, same thing.

Again, these people are implying that ALL trains are stopped for ridiculous lengths of time. Not possible, the platforms would be jam-packed.

These people are just hyperbolic whiners.


Sorry but I disagree with you, now while it isnt as bad as the first poster mentioned, it can be pretty much a shot in the dark in the winter on what time I get home at.

There are a lot of times that I have sat either in a Ctrain or waiting for one due to weather, train breakdown, emergency etc. I have been on 4 trains already since April that have had a medical emergency. Just yesterday I sat downtown on a train for 15 minutes before it moved (no clue what the problem is, and yes the platforms were jammed packed).

At least once a week I am late because of something happening on the train, now driving is a million times worse so really cant really complain too much

[Radley77]

C-Train in LEGO! :leek: Ingenious!

PytB9t-YDQ0

Credit: Youtube User - DuffAndrew (http://www.youtube.com/user/duffandrew)

[frinkprof]

Nevermind.

[mersar]

According to reports on CPTDB car 2090 had an electrical fire this morning. If you recall thats the recently restored car from two previously retired cars.

[You Need A Thneed]

According to reports on CPTDB car 2090 had an electrical fire this morning. If you recall thats the recently restored car from two previously retired cars.

Not a good sign for a rebuilt car like that. It might be out of commission for a while, would be my guess.

[bigcanuck]

What's a Code Yellow? On the bus ride home last night, the phone operator asked all drivers to avoid using the telephone as they were in a Code Yellow situation.

[frinkprof]

Nevermind.

[hulkrogan]

Too bad, was really excited for the proposed Route 9 changes. Would have made it a much more useful/sensible route in my opinion.

I won't complain though, as I've never not had my own seat because the Bridgeland leg of that route is totally under utilized. If you live closer to the train station, there is no reason to ever take the #9.

[fusili]

A streetcar his desire

Outdoor plumbing, anesthetic-free dentistry, and leeches for what ails you.

Painful, uncomfortable and obsolete — it’s why the past is usually best left there, gathering dust and fondly remembered only by the kind of people who wax nostalgic about Depression-era soup kitchens.

And then there are streetcars.

Of all the conveniences of turn-of-the-century Calgary, the streetcar system is something to admire.

The system which once connected far-flung corners of the city is a relic of the past which makes the present look like a giant step backwards.

...

And by future, we’re only talking five to 10 years: That’s the ideal starting date for Calgary’s return to streetcar glory, if a group of Beltline planners and visionaries get their way.

The $110-million streetcar project, as presented last week at the Beltline Communities Open House, is a modern version of the old tram system, and it even follows the same route.

“We came up with a very conceptualized plan for a Beltline streetcar,” said Peter Schryvers, community planner with Beltline Communities.
...

michael.platt@sunmedia.ca

Link (http://www.calgarysun.com/news/columnists/michael_platt/2010/05/15/13963031.html)

Well, at least the streetcar system is getting some media attention now.

[ue]

^Wow, that sounds awesome. Edmonton seems uninterested in a modern streetcar, sadly. Instead it seems we'll be hooking up most (future or current) destinations like Whyte Ave, Oliver, Quarters, etc. just by low floor LRT.

I have a question for you Calgarians. I heard once that Calgary's LRT actually stops at red lights much like private vehicles do and it can cause huge delays, especially in rush hour. Is that true? If so that sucks because that sounds more streetcar-like than LRT-like. How bad are delays on the C-Train usually?

[frinkprof]

Nevermind.

[frinkprof]

Nevermind.

[freeweed]

To be fair, most of the C-Trains "stops" for red lights coincide with stations. I notice when I ride through downtown that the lights are timed pretty well on 7th Ave, so that the train stops at a station, deals with boardings etc, and then pulls away when the light turns green. It usually makes it to the next station without stopping.

A red light might add a few seconds to a "stop", but nothing compared to the delays caused by morons standing in the doorway, holding doors for their friends, guys who forget you can't fit a bike on a packed train, etc.

In short: stopping for red lights on the LRT seems like a complete non-issue in actual practice.

[mersar]

Yep. The only spot that the red lights seem to be any issue is the short stretch along 9th street. Though since moving 8th Street station a block to the east even that spot isn't as bad anymore.

[The Chemist]

To be fair, most of the C-Trains "stops" for red lights coincide with stations. I notice when I ride through downtown that the lights are timed pretty well on 7th Ave, so that the train stops at a station, deals with boardings etc, and then pulls away when the light turns green. It usually makes it to the next station without stopping.

A red light might add a few seconds to a "stop", but nothing compared to the delays caused by morons standing in the doorway, holding doors for their friends, guys who forget you can't fit a bike on a packed train, etc.

In short: stopping for red lights on the LRT seems like a complete non-issue in actual practice.

Yeah, when I was in university and commuting by C-Train it always seemed that the delays downtown were not as a result of red lights (trains pulled out of each station when the light turned green) but because of idiots holding the doors open.

[frinkprof]

Nevermind.

[frinkprof]

Nevermind.

[freeweed]

Yep. The only spot that the red lights seem to be any issue is the short stretch along 9th street. Though since moving 8th Street station a block to the east even that spot isn't as bad anymore.

Yeah I've kinda noticed that too. I wonder if that was a planned effect, or just a happy accident.

[frinkprof]

Nevermind.

[frinkprof]

Nevermind.

[Koolfire]

Here's an editorial in today's Herald re: cuts to service hours.

Link (http://www.calgaryherald.com/opinion/transit+cuts+ride/3040181/story.html)

Let's put that into perspective. 90 people per day *365 roughly equals 32850. So we dropped off about a sixth in growth. Still growing pretty fast. :tup:

[Mazrim]

They should take the example of other places and realize that when you're losing money, cutting routes is only going to make you lose more money. You have to improve service to make money. Oh well.

[MalcolmTucker]

^ Not really, since cost recovery for bus routes is pretty low. Have to temper that with high recovery from LRT since buses feed so much of the LRT traffic.

In Toronto adding service has reduced system cost recovery from 85% to ~65% in ten years.

[Mazrim]

Ah, my mistake. I guess increased bus ridership does not equal more money in that sense.

[lubicon]

Are they going to cut service from current levels, or are they cutting back on some of the growth plans they had.

Big Difference.

[mersar]

Are they going to cut service from current levels, or are they cutting back on some of the growth plans they had.

Big Difference.

Likely the latter rather then the former, as even after all the recent cuts theres still over a hundred thousand new hours of service being added if I am correct (the initial addition was over 200,000 I believe, but its been cut back a couple times)

[frinkprof]

Nevermind.

[srperrycgy]

West LRT Bus Service Revisions:

http://www.calgarytransit.com/html/west_lrt_service_summary_2010.html

The 69th Street Terminal will be closed for WLRT construction. Routes are revised to terminate at Sirocco.

[xAnderblaze]

It would be pretty cool if that street car that they just brought back to Heritage park that travels to the parking lot went all the way to heritage station. Approx how much would that cost additionally?

[frinkprof]

Nevermind.

[frinkprof]

Nevermind.

[MalcolmTucker]

It would be pretty cool if that street car that they just brought back to Heritage park that travels to the parking lot went all the way to heritage station. Approx how much would that cost additionally?

$10 million a km plus utility relocation cost, land for and construction of a substation, and another piece or two of rolling stock. While it would be cool, ridership would likely be awful.

Now a collector modern street car (or low floor LRT with lets say 600m stop spacing) running from lets say this route might be worth it as a feeder to Heritage, but you would need to really plan good land use.

http://img30.imageshack.us/img30/3443/heritagecollector.jpg

It would eventually connect the two southern LRT lines and more than a couple employment nodes. It would certainly set up the auto mall to gradually develop into a suburban office node over time. Full route runs ~9 km. Not sure whether it would be more beneficial to run Rocky View - Heritage or Heritage - Auto Mall as the first phase, with the last phase connecting to the SE LRT sometime after it is done. If you were really diligent about scope creep and cost control (ie: design the track beds for operational speeds of 60 kph and the lightest rolling stock that is viable rather than making it extra future proof) it could work.

Unless there is a trunk sewer or water main under heritage to the extent that it is hard to either be on the other side of the road or in the median to avoid it. Would also need to figure out if it is realistic to run tracks on the west shoulder of 14th St, there are signs marking it as a crude pipeline route, but the pipe could be providing only just much less than in the 80s considering the changes in the refining industry in Alberta.

[srperrycgy]

:previous: Interesting idea. The route should run into Deerfoot Meadows instead of running on Heritage. More potential ridership.

Anyway, just a bit of transit geek trivia for your Tuesday; The CTrain turns 29 today. :5: