[miketoronto]

I am doing research for a studio project, and I have to research some information from American transit systems.

And one thing that always captures me, is all the marketing and amazing public relations events which American transit networks do.

I know there are reasons for this with transit in the USA having stigma, etc.
But at the end of the day, do you think if Canadian transit systems got a little gushy like this, that it could help in getting more people on board, etc?

The only system I can think in Canada that has gotten really agressive with advertising and public relations is York Region Transit. And they seem to have had some success.

So anyway your views on this? Check out this quick two minute video from MARTA in Atlanta. You almost never see videos like this from Canadian transit systems.
http://www.itsmarta.com/MARTA-moments-video.aspx

[jeremy_haak]

Most major Canadian cities aren't struggling for riders so much as they are struggling to deal with all the riders. A slick marketing campaign won't address that issue, and at worst, would exacerbate it.

[someone123]

US systems are limited by social stigma, Canadian systems are limited by money. I don't think there's a single decent transit system in this country that's underused, but there are plenty of cities that have nothing but buses 30 minute frequencies and that is not a substitute for commuting by car no matter how much advertising there is.

[ue]

Most major Canadian cities aren't struggling for riders so much as they are struggling to deal with all the riders. A slick marketing campaign won't address that issue, and at worst, would exacerbate it.

I agree. I can only think of around 10 US cities where struggling to get ridership isn't a problem. This would especially be so in a sprawl city like Atlanta, like mike mentioned.

[miketoronto]

But would better marketing, etc not make current riders more loyal and feel better about taking transit, if it is seen as cool and up to date, etc?

Sort of like what York has done with VIVA.

[Riise]

But would better marketing, etc not make current riders more loyal and feel better about taking transit, if it is seen as cool and up to date, etc?

Sort of like what York has done with VIVA.

The primary concerns of transit riders are things like convenience, ease of use, reliability, and speed. They would much rather the money be spent on improving these things (i.e. service provision) instead of the transit agency's image. Also, the quality of the service provided will have a much larger impact on the agency's image.

[vid]

"Thunder Bay Transit: It's like the car, but slower and you get to sit beside an obese man who has no concept of personal hygiene!"

Or how about:

"Thunder Bay Transit: 214 minutes or it's free!" :tup:

Or:

"Thunder Bay Transit: It just went by. Wait another 40 minutes!"

[ue]

But would better marketing, etc not make current riders more loyal and feel better about taking transit, if it is seen as cool and up to date, etc?

Sort of like what York has done with VIVA.

But major Canadian transit systems don't have an image problem to improve. How would a shiny advertisement make people feel more loyal when they are already loyally using the system efficiently?

[vid]

TTC has an image problem...

"TTC: Don't fall asleep--that's our job!"

[jeremy_haak]

TTC has an image problem...

"TTC: Don't fall asleep--that's our job!"

I would suggest that instead of launching a big rebranding exercise to combat that, the TTC staff could simply stop falling asleep on the job. Will this affect ridership for the TTC? Maybe a tiny bit, but nothing to lose sleep over. ;)

[manny_santos]

I would suggest that instead of launching a big rebranding exercise to combat that, the TTC staff could simply stop falling asleep on the job. Will this affect ridership for the TTC? Maybe a tiny bit, but nothing to lose sleep over. ;)

Yeah, but that'll piss off the union boss. Serving the public comes second after protecting a few lazy employees who aren't doing their jobs.

[crooked rain]

MikeTO - didn't you just post a thread in the transportation section bemoaning the lack of customer service you got from US transit systems when you called for statistical information compared to Canadian systems?

This isn't a world of infinite resources. Perhaps the Canadian systems spend their budget on customer service and the American ones choose to spend it on marketing.

In the world of tight government budgets, agencies have to focus on what they can afford given the constraints they have.

[habfanman]

The TTC is stuck in the 70's, they should market themselves as 'The Retro Rocket'. I can't believe they're still using tokens, tickets and paper transfers. Not being able to use credit cards or interac is equally quaint, and the cost? 121$ for a metropass is a rip. You have to use it 49 times in order to save money over tickets.

[niwell]

The TTC is stuck in the 70's, they should market themselves as 'The Retro Rocket'. I can't believe they're still using tokens, tickets and paper transfers. Not being able to use credit cards or interac is equally quaint, and the cost? 121$ for a metropass is a rip. You have to use it 49 times in order to save money over tickets.

It's easy to complain when you live in a city that actually gets proper Provincial funding. Blame Harris for the worst of it.

At this point I'll take the tangible service improvements over anything else. Despite Giambrone's hilarious gaffes (the latest of which is a killer) he has improved things in this way. Advertising and even a comprehensive fare card are secondary until a proper funding structure returns.

[WhipperSnapper]

^It's habsfanman. Don't waste your breath. I don't think it has been even six months since STM phased out tickets and yet, the TTC is 30 years out of date.

I care more about service and coverage than forms of payment anyways. A card would be nice but it's hardly the be all and end all of public transit. (and I still don't have transfers from all the routes yet although I'm pretty sure they still have them too)

[miketoronto]

It is true that service is more important.

But at the same time, some low cost branding, etc could work in making the system more attractive to potential riders.

The TTC in many areas does not have the best reputation, eventhough the buses come every 2 minutes.
In fact many people say TTC means "take the car".

So service is the most important I agree. But at the same time, How the system presents itself also is a concern.
I just saw the new buses Quebec City bought for their Metrobus BRT routes. And they have special branding on the seats, and special paint jobs. It just looks so nice and special compared to the regular buses.

[vid]

Thunder Bay Transit spent about $50,000 "upgrading" its fare boxes. The only real difference is a digital readout on the machine. They were going to have smart cards, but...

[habfanman]

^It's habsfanman. Don't waste your breath. I don't think it has been even six months since STM phased out tickets and yet, the TTC is 30 years out of date.

I care more about service and coverage than forms of payment anyways. A card would be nice but it's hardly the be all and end all of public transit. (and I still don't have transfers from all the routes yet although I'm pretty sure they still have them too)

The STM was using a more modern system than the TTC before Opus was phased in. I've been using Opus since Aug 2008, the old swipe cards were gone in the spring of 2009 and the transition period ended last Sept. when tickets were no longer accepted and transfers were no longer issued.

Problem is, the TTC will continue to talk about Presto for another 3-5 years, take another 2 years to implement and transition, eff-up royally the first time around causing more delays.. 2020ish?

[Cambridgite]

It is true that service is more important.

But at the same time, some low cost branding, etc could work in making the system more attractive to potential riders.

The TTC in many areas does not have the best reputation, eventhough the buses come every 2 minutes.
In fact many people say TTC means "take the car".

So service is the most important I agree. But at the same time, How the system presents itself also is a concern.
I just saw the new buses Quebec City bought for their Metrobus BRT routes. And they have special branding on the seats, and special paint jobs. It just looks so nice and special compared to the regular buses.

I'd be surprised if aggressive marketing made a difference. I could see advertising major upgrades making a difference and I could also see benefits in making route information readily available. But not much else...I think it would be a lot more beneficial to focus on service upgrades. How many transit systems in Canada could use improvement? Most of them.

[jeremy_haak]

It is true that service is more important.

But at the same time, some low cost branding, etc could work in making the system more attractive to potential riders.

The TTC in many areas does not have the best reputation, eventhough the buses come every 2 minutes.
In fact many people say TTC means "take the car".

So service is the most important I agree. But at the same time, How the system presents itself also is a concern.
I just saw the new buses Quebec City bought for their Metrobus BRT routes. And they have special branding on the seats, and special paint jobs. It just looks so nice and special compared to the regular buses.

Nicer seats and a better paint job? Is that really what the TTC needs?

[harls]

Maybe some rad flames or mags on those buses would attract more riders.

[SlickFranky]

I see Transit City billboards all over the place.

[RTA]

Maybe some rad flames or mags on those buses would attract more riders.

One word:

Spinners.

[MolsonExport]

marketing schmarketing. busses just need to be snazzed up:

q6AOk1gFgDc

even better:

bPpBGsFddao

put these in your project.

[Halifax Hillbilly]

I know there are reasons for this with transit in the USA having stigma, etc. But at the end of the day, do you think if Canadian transit systems got a little gushy like this, that it could help in getting more people on board, etc?

I can't speak for Toronto, Vancouver or Montreal, where transit is an integral part of the city's transportation network, but outside of the big cities there is definetely a stigma against transit. Transit is viewed as being for poor people without cars, students and the elderly in most smaller Canadian cities. Transit's ride share for commuter trips is somewhere around 5% in Saint John NB (metro pop. 125,000), less in Moncton (similar population) and 11-12% in Halifax (metro around 400,000). No where in the Maritimes outside of Halifax does transit play a major role.

I'm living in Saint John and take the bus. Most of my co-workers (white collar type job but quite a young office) think I'm a hippie or will grow out of it. Most have no idea about routes, where to find route info, where to buy a pass, find schedules, etc. Only two other people in the office have tried taking the bus to work (out of twenty). There is a stigma, or at least an ignorance. These are the systems that have capacity (except Halifax) and a huge market to tap into.

I'd suggest for your project to look at smaller Canadian cities. Halifax and Saint John have both introduced BRT projects taking suburban riders downtown. Halifax's BRT should be expanding with new routes and terminals in 2011. Both have been very successful and relied heavily on marketing to get people who would never consider a conventional bus to take the new service. Halifax's program is called MetroLink and they partnered with a local environmental NGO, the Ecology Action Centre, to advertise. ComEX is the Saint John NB service and is a partnership between a number of municipalities, the Transit Commission and the Parking Commission.

[vid]

Have people in either city suggested replacing all of the buses with Dodge Sprinters to "save money" and "make more space on the roads for real cars"?

(Someone seriously suggested that for Thunder Bay.)

[manny_santos]

I can't speak for Toronto, Vancouver or Montreal, where transit is an integral part of the city's transportation network, but outside of the big cities there is definetely a stigma against transit. Transit is viewed as being for poor people without cars, students and the elderly in most smaller Canadian cities. Transit's ride share for commuter trips is somewhere around 5% in Saint John NB (metro pop. 125,000), less in Moncton (similar population) and 11-12% in Halifax (metro around 400,000). No where in the Maritimes outside of Halifax does transit play a major role.

London's public transit ride share is closer to 20%, but even then there is stigma against public transit - Londonders love their SUVs. It is the perfect city to grow a BRT system, but all we're getting is talk, no vision.

[MolsonExport]

^yeah, as the 80% that never use transit are not willing to pony up, and the "leadership" here has not articulated a vision of London might become with better transit.

[Cambridgite]

I'd suggest for your project to look at smaller Canadian cities. Halifax and Saint John have both introduced BRT projects taking suburban riders downtown. Halifax's BRT should be expanding with new routes and terminals in 2011. Both have been very successful and relied heavily on marketing to get people who would never consider a conventional bus to take the new service. Halifax's program is called MetroLink and they partnered with a local environmental NGO, the Ecology Action Centre, to advertise. ComEX is the Saint John NB service and is a partnership between a number of municipalities, the Transit Commission and the Parking Commission.

Are you sure MetroLink and ComEx are BRT? Do you they have their own dedicated lanes or transitways?

I'm not sure about MetroLink, but I've looked at the ComEx system and it sounds more like an express bus, like Grand River Transit's iXpress in the Kitchener-Waterloo-Cambridge area.

Ottawa has actual BRT. They have transitways running as a completely separate system from the mainstream road network.

London's public transit ride share is closer to 20%, but even then there is stigma against public transit - Londonders love their SUVs. It is the perfect city to grow a BRT system, but all we're getting is talk, no vision.

I have a hard time believing that 20% figure for London when the Greater Toronto Area had a transit modal share of 22% in 2006. I know Waterloo Region had a transit modal share of about 4% in 2006, so I'd be surprised if London's was any higher than 10%. Maybe the 20% figure is all non-car trips combined?? :shrug:

[Halifax Hillbilly]

Are you sure MetroLink and ComEx are BRT? Do you they have their own dedicated lanes or transitways?

I'm not sure about MetroLink, but I've looked at the ComEx system and it sounds more like an express bus, like Grand River Transit's iXpress in the Kitchener-Waterloo-Cambridge area.

Ottawa has actual BRT. They have transitways running as a completely separate system from the mainstream road network.


ComEx is an express bus, three or four stops to downtown from the burbs. MetroLink is an express bus with some BRT features such as quee-jumping and transit priority signals. There are plans for some dedicated bus lanes for MetroLink to aviod traffic bottle knecks, but neither system has anything comparable to Ottawa's transitway. MetroLink is certainly marketed as BRT and a lot of Haligonians will argue it is. It's rapid by our transit standards. :rolleyes:

[NetMapel]

I'd agree with the majority of the posters that I'd rather that they spend money to improve the actual transit service instead of wasting it on better marketing.