[xAnderblaze]

Ok after hearing talk about the Oilers getting a new arena along with the rumors of a possible new one in Calgary in a few years to come, I got to thinking how detrimental to our city it would be to loose that piece of our culture/identity, and our skyline. Looking back through all the pictures of the lost pieces of history, along with how some of our older buildings have been converted for unique new ways, sometimes just for the fact of saving a historic landmark. Was wondering if anyone had any suggestions on such issues or if something would even be feasible...

[Riise]

Ok after hearing talk about the Oilers getting a new arena along with the rumors of a possible new one in Calgary in a few years to come, I got to thinking how detrimental to our city it would be to loose that piece of our culture/identity, and our skyline. Looking back through all the pictures of the lost pieces of history, along with how some of our older buildings have been converted for unique new ways, sometimes just for the fact of saving a historic landmark. Was wondering if anyone had any suggestions on such issues or if something would even be feasible...

This has been discussed here a few times in the past and I don't think we've ever reached a consensus on what would be feasible. As I think we lack a decent stock of excellent pieces of architecture it would be a shame to lose our most unique piece. I've brought up Highbury Square before not so much as an example of what can be done on our site, but rather as example of what creative and innovative thinking could lead to with our site.


Highbury Square

Arsenal's former football ground has now opened to residents. The area where the pitch used to remain is now an open space for residents, while the stands have been renovated for accomodation purposes. The art-deco exterior has also been restored.

The first image shows the new home of Arsenal - the Emirates to the right, and Highbury Square (their former ground) to the bottom left. This is a pretty unique development not just in London, but in the world!

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2458/3581288032_fa1b84eaff_b.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3447/3878031754_d937775a00_b.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3511/3878028146_15dedc3c5e_b.jpg

The final day at Highbury
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/52/142261758_800a852ea6_b.jpg

Here are a few more pictures of the old Highbury.

http://www.footballpictures.net/data/media/13/highbury_stadium.jpg

http://www.highburysurveyor.co.uk/highbury.jpg

http://www.gooner.com/images/highbury.jpg


And the Master Plan for Highbury Square.

http://www.capitalaerials.com/userimages/highbury1.jpg

[YYCguys]

I've always liked this conversion. It's very creative. I wonder how much back and forth there was between the developer and the city planners and the public to get Highbury Square to where it is.

If this were done to McMahon Stadium and area, where would all those recreational needs be fulfilled nearby? There isn't any available land nearby for an ice arena, soccer field, a track and field facility and a football facility of this magnitude. And the neighborhood is cut off by some major roads. I could see the public going into a frenzy!

[Calgarian]

Keep the saddledome as it is, the Roughnecks and Hitmen can play in it, it can hold concerts and monster truck shows. We can host things like a figure skating championship or the Brier without sending the Flames on a 10 game road trip.

[Riise]

I've always liked this conversion. It's very creative. I wonder how much back and forth there was between the developer and the city planners and the public to get Highbury Square to where it is.

A lot. Thankfully, the planning system over here is very flexible and this results in not only a lot of back and forth between developers and planners but also bargaining. However, Arsenal had the upper hand in these discussions. One of the senior planners who dealt with Emirates and Highbury Square gave a lecture to my module and he told us how Arsenal had the public in their corner as everyone loved the club but hated the local council. Nonetheless, Arsenal was actually the driving force behind the project as they realized that a high quality project could bring in a huge profit.

if you want, I could email you or upload a copy of the Power Point presentation.

[Riise]

Keep the saddledome as it is, the Roughnecks and Hitmen can play in it, it can hold concerts and monster truck shows. We can host things like a figure skating championship or the Brier without sending the Flames on a 10 game road trip.

I think the Flames management wouldn't mind the 10-game road trip as long as the new arena keeps bringing in the $$$.

[korzym]

It will get demolished if/when the new arena is built

[Calgarian]

I really doubt the Dome will get demolished, the Corral will get demolished and the Dome will get all the business that the Corral had.

[SubwayRev]

I agree that the Saddledome would get demolished if a new arena were built. There aren't enough events to fill the Saddledome right now, and there definately aren't enough to fill two full-sized arenas. The Corral, while older and crappier, fills a different niche than the Saddledome, hosting smaller events.

[mersar]

I doubt it will get demolished... mainly due to ownership of it. There would also be a substantial cost to demolish it (I can envision into the millions), which will fall on the tax payers of Calgary who I suspect will complain greatly about it.

[YYCguys]

Riise, that would be great! I tried to PM you with my email address, however there was an error message saying you needed to clear some space in your folder before I could send my PM. Cheers Mate!

[frinkprof]

^Yeah Riise, I tried to send you a PM once. I can't even recall what it was about. You should clean out your inbox.

As for the Saddledome, maybe it can house the French Maid when City Centre starts. One big strip club.

[Riise]

Terribly sorry about that guys, I had some important info spread across a lot of messages and never took the time to transfer them. Since more than one person wants the presentation I've uploaded here (http://cid-6989a1645126d4f4.skydrive.live.com/self.aspx/Public/Talk%20on%20Arsenal%20^509-12-09^6.ppt).

[DizzyEdge]

^Yeah Riise, I tried to send you a PM once. I can't even recall what it was about. You should clean out your inbox.

As for the Saddledome, maybe it can house the French Maid when City Centre starts. One big strip club.


+ farmer's market

eats & teats

[MichaelS]

I doubt it will get demolished... mainly due to ownership of it. There would also be a substantial cost to demolish it (I can envision into the millions), which will fall on the tax payers of Calgary who I suspect will complain greatly about it.

I think there will be an even greater complaint if tax payers are asked to fund a new arena, which is why I think this discussion is not necessary.

[McPaul]

^^ I like the farmer's market idea. I would absolutely shop there. Could you hold the market on the concourse area and save the surface for multi use sports?

[RicoLance21]

Keep the saddledome as it is, the Roughnecks and Hitmen can play in it, it can hold concerts and monster truck shows. We can host things like a figure skating championship or the Brier without sending the Flames on a 10 game road trip.

Concerts, definitely no. Due to the saddle design, the sound quality flat out sucks.

[Jay in Cowtown]

I really doubt the Dome will get demolished, the Corral will get demolished and the Dome will get all the business that the Corral had.

Agreed, the Corral needs the wrecking ball. The new building will need to house as much as it can to pay the bill off, that'll include the Flames, Hitmen, Concerts & Roughnecks, but the Dome can still house the dirt shows like Monster Trucks, Rodeos and stuff like that.

[Hawker]

As mentioned above, the Saddledome will come down when the new Flames arena is built. The Flames won't want to have any building that could possibly take events away from the new building, and Stampede would rather have the land back than the building, esp if the new arena is (as has long been rumored) on Stampede Park.
As for the Corral, it won't be going down anytime soon. It does fairly well in it's niche of small to medium sized concerts and events, and is an integrated part of the BMO Centre.

[Ferreth]

I'm going to argue that the Saddledome should stay up as a significant piece of historic architecture in Calgary from the 1980's. It's a unique building in a city that has few recognizable buildings outside of the CBD. Out of all the Olympic legacy buildings, I would keep this one above all others. Anyone who's lived in Calgary for any amount of time will have some good times memories attached to this building. Check out the Wikipedia article (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saddledome) on it, very good summary of the building.

[SubwayRev]

I'm going to argue that the Saddledome should stay up as a significant piece of historic architecture in Calgary from the 1980's. It's a unique building in a city that has few recognizable buildings outside of the CBD. Out of all the Olympic legacy buildings, I would keep this one above all others. Anyone who's lived in Calgary for any amount of time will have some good times memories attached to this building. Check out the Wikipedia article (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saddledome) on it, very good summary of the building.

Agreed that it's a great legacy building, but who could affoard to keep it open when there's nothing there? The Flames, Hitmen and most concerts would be in the new building. There simply isn't enough in Calgary to warrant two full-sized arenas. I have many, many fond memories of the Saddledome, but with a new arena, it's gone.

Without any tennants, it would become an abondon Detroit-style building. There in spirit, but only an eysore, beaten down by weather and time.

[shogged]

so with regards to the saddledome, the lease on the "pengrowth" name is up this year to my understanding. What are the odds of a new company taking over naming rights? Perhaps if a new company signs a lease, we might get an indication of timeline for a new arena? Perhaps a 5 year lease instead of the 10 or 20 year leases we normally see on arenas... Or maybe the naming rights would transfer indicating likely demolition of the dome?

[Bassic Lab]

so with regards to the saddledome, the lease on the "pengrowth" name is up this year to my understanding. What are the odds of a new company taking over naming rights? Perhaps if a new company signs a lease, we might get an indication of timeline for a new arena? Perhaps a 5 year lease instead of the 10 or 20 year leases we normally see on arenas... Or maybe the naming rights would transfer indicating likely demolition of the dome?

The transfer of naming rights would not necessarily mean the Saddledome was being demolished. A clause could attach naming rights to whatever arena the Flames are playing in. The Saddledome could simply revert to the Olympic moniker.

Unless Ken King has 300 million dollars under his mattress, the Flames have no idea when they could get a new building. Public financing could very well be hard to come by for quite some time. I can't see any private institution willing to finance it., unless some one can convince a bank that a new arena would raise Flames profits by more than 11 million (2010 dollars) a year for the next thirty. The hardest part would be keeping a straight face during the presentation.

[Riise]

As mentioned above, the Saddledome will come down when the new Flames arena is built.

Not to single you out but I hate when important things like keeping the Dome are just brushed off rather easily. Like Ferreth said, the building holds a lot of importance to this city and we need to find a way to make it work once the new arena is built.


Agreed that it's a great legacy building, but who could affoard to keep it open when there's nothing there? The Flames, Hitmen and most concerts would be in the new building. There simply isn't enough in Calgary to warrant two full-sized arenas.

That's why we have a thread like this, to generate ideas at an early stage so before any shovels hit the ground we'll be equipped with numerous ideas about how to handle the situation. This is what happened with Arsenal and Highbury, they drew up a plan for Highbury at the same time they drew up plans for Ashburton Grove. Also, these ideas will hopefully change the situation so we'll only have one arena; the Dome cease to be an arena and be transformed to accommodate a new use.

[Distill3d]

Agreed that it's a great legacy building, but who could affoard to keep it open when there's nothing there? The Flames, Hitmen and most concerts would be in the new building. There simply isn't enough in Calgary to warrant two full-sized arenas. I have many, many fond memories of the Saddledome, but with a new arena, it's gone.

Without any tennants, it would become an abondon Detroit-style building. There in spirit, but only an eysore, beaten down by weather and time.

The Saddledome would still have a tenant if the Flames and Hitmen moved out. As mentioned, the Roughnecks (who aren't owned by the Flames) make use of the building. Though, I'm certain that the Hitmen would stay as well. The same will render true with the Edmonton Oil Kings and the Edmonton Rush will stay in the current Rexall Place when the new downtown Edmonton arena is built. After all, it seems to be a growing trend with the Canadian teams moving to new digs. GM Place is used by the Canucks alone, while the WHL Giants make use of the Pacific Coliseum. The Ottawa Senators call ScotiaBank Place their home, while the OHL Ottawa 67's still call the Urbandale Centre (formerly the Civic Center).

It is possible for the Flames and Hitmen to play at the same time on the same day. As mentioned it would open the doors for more tournaments in town without the Flames and Hitmen having to go on a long road skid. Also, the potential to avoid a mishap like in 2006 when both Tool and Mariah Carey were scheduled to play the Saddledome on the same day (Mariah rescheduled for later in the year). It also adds more convention space to Calgary.

I think the biggest thing that has to be considered is the location of any new arena. As I've mentioned in previous threads, I'm a proponent for an arena and stadium where the West Village Concept is located. However, any new arena will most likely be at the Stampede Grounds. If it is built there, it stands a strong possibility of being demolished. If its built elsewhere in the city, it will stay.

[sheldonsgongshow]

Another thing to think about is the fact that the dome loses out to so many concerts because of the design and weight restrictions in the center. So a new arena would be the most sought after venue for concerts then. On the other hand we could actually host the Memorial Cup here. Can't now cause we can't confirm ice time with the Flames potentially playing the playoffs. But I do agree we could still keep the dome if the new arena is built out of stampede grounds.