Ottawa: vibrant, exciting and alive?

[rakerman]

Some discussion appeared in the Tribeca thread (http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=146738&page=16).

I just want to make one point: there are lots of great cities - New York, Chicago, Vancouver, London, Paris... almost all of which have an urban core where owning or even renting is far far outside the reach of the average person. Just to give a couple examples, 550 square feet in New York's Upper West Side goes for about U$500k (after property prices took a major hit when the US real estate bubble burst).

New York Times - Got 500,000 Clams? The City Is Your Oyster (http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/14/realestate/14cov.html) - February 11, 2010

And in an extreme example, 178 square feet is renting for U$944 in Brooklyn

New York Times - A Roomy 178 Square Feet (http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/11/garden/11location.html) - February 10, 2010

The point being: Ottawa is not perfect, but it's getting better every year and, for the moment, you can still afford to buy and rent downtown. The food scene is good, the outdoorsy exercise scene is good, there's the NAC and the museums... I dream of subways, trams and better urban green space, but at least you can still affordably enjoy the many positives that Ottawa has. In other words, ever more "vibrant, exciting and alive" is coming, but be aware, it comes at a price. I won't say we're exactly fortunate that Ottawa neglected its downtown for so many years, but it has allowed a lot of new urbanites to move (and own) downtown who could never afford to live in the core of other major cities.

[adam-machiavelli]

So true.

[eternallyme]

Remember that Ottawa cannot be compared well to those cities as it is nowhere near them in population. Best comparison would be to its peer cities (metro areas of 1 to 2 million).

[Kitchissippi]

It takes a skate up and down the canal on a day like today to realize this city is like no other. We often take for granted what is unique about Ottawa by saying we have less of what other cities have.

[cityguy]

Your point is true,but affordability does not equal exciting.I've lived in Ottawa for almost two decades and enjoying living here.The city has improved but I would never use exciting to describe it.Even my children urned for the excitement and opportunity of the big cities and have since moved away.

[Acajack]

Ottawa is going in the right direction for sure.

The last few times I have been to Europe, I found myself comparing the cultural offerings and urban "scene" of European cities of similar size to Ottawa and much to my surprise Ottawa I believe can hold its own quite well.

It is not quite on the level of capitals like Dublin, Stockholm or Copenhagen, but then again these capitals are a tad larger than Ottawa and also happen to be the largest cities in their country.

But certainly, Ottawa has nothing to be ashamed of compared to many metros of 1.3 million or so in France, Germany or other countries.

In my humble opinion.

[Ottawan]

Anyone who says Ottawa is not exciting has missed the following events:

-Any bar downtown any time the Sens are in the playoffs (but especially our great 2007 run)
-Any Canada Day ever.
-Bluesfest
-Political Protests (anyone remember the Tamils last year? This may not be everyone's idea of 'fun', but it is exciting, and unique to Ottawa)

These are just the prime examples. Lesser events occur all the time that to me make Ottawa quite exciting, including:

-Ottawa Fringe Festival
-Jazz Fest
-The Ottawa Writers' Festival
-The Ottawa Annimation Festival
-Fireworks competition at Casino du Lac Leamy
-Skating on the Canal

There are a number of one-off events recently that were exciting:

-The IIHF World Junior Championships (2009)
-NHL Draft (2008)
-FIFA World Cup 2006 (I worked in the ByWard Market, and after EVERY game, Canadians who were ethnically from the winning team would parade through the area in their cars waving flags and honking horns. When Italy won, I, along with thousands of others, went to Preston Street, which was flooded with people and a party like no other. THAT was exciting)
-The Grey Cup (2004)

Employment Sectors:

-Constantly up or down, start-up companies & major takeovers (ex: IBM-Cognos), booms and busts (Nortel), local business celebrities (Copelands, Terrence Matthews, Rod Bryden), our tech sector actually is very exciting to watch.
-Politics: if you mix with the right people, there actually is alot of excitment to the political intrigue and buzz of the city.

And this is without me harping on the cultural & educational institutions or outdoor activities that do make Ottawa unique.

[p_xavier]

Anyone who says Ottawa is not exciting has missed the following events:

-Any bar downtown any time the Sens are in the playoffs (but especially our great 2007 run)
-Any Canada Day ever.
-Bluesfest
-Political Protests (anyone remember the Tamils last year? This may not be everyone's idea of 'fun', but it is exciting, and unique to Ottawa)

And this is without me harping on the cultural & educational institutions or outdoor activities that do make Ottawa unique.

The problem is that none of these activities are unique to Ottawa...

- Any bar downtown any time the Habs or Leafs win (and you don't have to drive 45 minutes for the enjoyment!)
- Any St-Jean-Baptiste day
...

To be a great city, Ottawa will need to get a) a real transportation system (that means deemed as essential service and be actually rapid) b) a vivid cultural scene (a few plays and shows is not that) c) unique restaurants (that is one that is definitely getting there) d) rid of public servants e) more immigrants

[Ottawan]

The problem is that none of these activities are unique to Ottawa...

- Any bar downtown any time the Habs or Leafs win (and you don't have to drive 45 minutes for the enjoyment!)
- Any St-Jean-Baptiste day
...

To be a great city, Ottawa will need to get a) a real transportation system (that means deemed as essential service and be actually rapid) b) a vivid cultural scene (a few plays and shows is not that) c) unique restaurants (that is one that is definitely getting there) d) rid of public servants e) more immigrants

Of course there are many things Ottawa needs, and I am hoping it will get, so that it can become a great(er) city. In fact, I agree with almost every item on your list (the exceptions are b - we have quite a vivid cultural scene, and changing d to "diversify the economy", because public servants are in many ways a great thing to have, it is just their dominance that is a problem).

That said, I think it needs to be emphasized that this place has alot of potential, is currently on the track to becoming more urban and acquiring more of a 'big city' feel, but already IS EXCITING in it's own right. Does it have to be more exciting than every other place in order to hold this title? No. But should it be derided as boring when it's anything but? NO.

Also, the 300,000 to 500,000 people downtown every Canada Day is entirely unique to Ottawa.

[Acajack]

To be a great city, Ottawa will need to get a) a real transportation system (that means deemed as essential service and be actually rapid)

Just being the devil's advocate here, but aren't there some great cities in the world that don't have this... yet are still great metropolises? Los Angeles, maybe?

[Acajack]

I think both d jeffrey and Ottawan are right in their own way.

What d jeffrey is saying though, is that one can point out a whole bunch of punctual events for any city. But what makes a city truly appear vibrant is if it has a decent amount of people out and about every night of the year.

Sure, Lillehammer was a hopping place during the 1994 Olympics, but what about the rest of the time? St-Tite, Quebec hosts 500,000 people during its "Festival Western" but during the other 51 weeks of the year it is a sleepy little town of 4,000 people.

What makes so many of the world's great cities interesting is the fact that one can venture out tonight, Monday, Feb. 15, 2010 (or any other night of the year for that matter), with nothing special going on in town, yet still find some semblance of public life going on. Even if it is just people out shopping, having dinner, having a drink, lovers strolling arm in arm, etc.

[p_xavier]

Just being the devil's advocate here, but aren't there some great cities in the world that don't have this... yet are still great metropolises? Los Angeles, maybe?

Isn't Los Angeles named one of the worst cities for traffic and transit, and many issues related to this?

Transit is good for the "bohemian" crowd, which is mostly the creative class. These are the people that bring you your plays, bars and other activities, but are usually too poor to own a car.

[reidjr]

d_jeffrey
So let me get this right ottawa needs more shows by the way we have more then a few.Then you say we need to get rid of rid of public servants more immigrants i would like you to explain why and how.

[Acajack]

Isn't Los Angeles named one of the worst cities for traffic and transit, and many issues related to this?



Indeed, but that doesn't (necessarily) make it less of a vibrant, global city:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_city

Most global cities (even the most attractive ones) have their fair share of problems, many of which are huge in fact.

[rakerman]

Remember that Ottawa cannot be compared well to those cities as it is nowhere near them in population. Best comparison would be to its peer cities (metro areas of 1 to 2 million).

Two obvious comparables are Copenhagen and Stockholm, and I'm afraid Ottawa doesn't do particularly well in comparison I have to say, as both have subways (although the Copenhagen metro system is pretty small) and functional (albeit expensive) city cores with lots of green space. Ottawa actually could learn a lot from Copenhagen which spent 40 years deliberately transforming itself.

[rakerman]

Just being the devil's advocate here, but aren't there some great cities in the world that don't have this... yet are still great metropolises? Los Angeles, maybe?

LA actually has a fairly functional transit system, that carries over a million riders per weekday

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transportation_in_Los_Angeles

It includes buses and a subway (yes, LA has a subway).

It's just that in newer car-based US cities, public transit = poor, car = rich, so people basically ignore public transit if they can.

[p_xavier]

d_jeffrey
So let me get this right ottawa needs more shows by the way we have more then a few.Then you say we need to get rid of rid of public servants more immigrants i would like you to explain why and how.

Ottawa is being compared to other cities. The Acajack example were that even small villages have more than a few shows. Hell, my 2000 people hometown has 5 festivals in the summer. Being a vibrant city means diverse activities around the clock, year long.

As an example, I had much difficulty to find open restaurants in Ottawa after 11pm.

For public servants, the risk aversion produces a mass of slobs, thinking mostly the same, and producing a culture of mediocrity. (I'm one too so, I can complain genuinely)

Immigrants bring culture, different ways of thoughts, different experiences that is reflected on the various activities of the city. The "bohemian-chics" have the same effect on a city. There is also the problem of not having a "low class" in Ottawa. That means a class of manufacturers, industry workers, biology fields. It's still mostly IT and Government.

Toronto is now a vibrant city, the only alpha-city in Canada. Montréal was at a time, but still suffers from its ethnic cleansing of the 70s.

[p_xavier]

Two obvious comparables are Copenhagen and Stockholm, and I'm afraid Ottawa doesn't do particularly well in comparison I have to say, as both have subways (although the Copenhagen metro system is pretty small) and functional (albeit expensive) city cores with lots of green space. Ottawa actually could learn a lot from Copenhagen which spent 40 years deliberately transforming itself.

When I studied the ottawa transit situation, Oslo was also a city that came to mind.

[p_xavier]

LA actually has a fairly functional transit system, that carries over a million riders per weekday

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transportation_in_Los_Angeles

It includes buses and a subway (yes, LA has a subway).

It's just that in newer car-based US cities, public transit = poor, car = rich, so people basically ignore public transit if they can.

The LA subway basically got us the movie Speed. But yes, LA is still a massive suburb, with transit used by mexicans.


From the link, I found it interesting to see what makes it a alpha-city:

Infrastructural characteristics

- Advanced transportation system that includes several highways and/or a large mass transit network offering multiple modes of transportation (rapid transit, light rail, regional rail, ferry, or bus).
- Extensive and popular[22] mass transit systems, prominent rail usage,[23] road vehicle usage,[24] major seaports[25]
- A major international airport that serves as an established hub for several international airlines, for example, London. Airports with significant passenger traffic and international passengers traffic.[26] or cargo movements
- An advanced communications infrastructure on which modern trans-national corporations rely, such as fiberoptics, Wi-Fi networks, cellular phone services, and other high-speed lines of communications. For example, Seoul and Tokyo are known as the digital and technology capitals of the world.
- Health facilities; e.g. hospitals, medical laboratories
- Prominent skylines/skyscrapers (for example Shanghai or Hong Kong)[27]

[m0nkyman]

Ottawa has a vibrant Theatre scene, ranging from the student run Sock'n'Buskin to major productions at the NAC, GCTC and productions by Orpheus, not to mention a quite respectable Fringe Festival.

Musically there is and has been a wide variety of musical scenes from classical to punk. We have venues ranging from the NAC and Centrepointe Theatre at the classical end to stages at places like Mavericks, Babylon, and Zaphods, not to mention the major festivals and big shows at Scotiabank Place.

Foodwise, we have a phenomenal scene, with places like Atelier, Beckta, Juniper, Allium, Absinthe, Whalesbone, Benitz, Black Cat, Jaks etc.

We have a relatively vibrant visual arts scene as well, from SAW Gallery and the Basement Artists Collective to Enriched Bread Artists, along with some very nice galleries, not to mention the amazing collection at the National Gallery.

We have access to Gatineau Park, two rivers, and have a wide variety of sports facilities if you want more active activities, and if you want to watch sports, we have the Senators.

The idea that Ottawa is boring is laughable.

[rodionx]

For public servants, the risk aversion produces a mass of slobs, thinking mostly the same, and producing a culture of mediocrity. (I'm one too so, I can complain genuinely)


Trouble at work? :D

Copenhagen and Stockholm are government towns par excellence and don't suffer from it. Call centre employees and telecom engineers aren't necessarily any more vibrant than public servants, anyway. The main benefit of greater economic diversity is that we would have more big corporate sponsors to get behind things like the concert hall.

[Vaillant]

Anyone who says Ottawa is not exciting has missed the following events:

-Any bar downtown any time the Sens are in the playoffs (but especially our great 2007 run)
-Any Canada Day ever.
-Bluesfest
-Political Protests (anyone remember the Tamils last year? This may not be everyone's idea of 'fun', but it is exciting, and unique to Ottawa)

These are just the prime examples. Lesser events occur all the time that to me make Ottawa quite exciting, including:

-Ottawa Fringe Festival
-Jazz Fest
-The Ottawa Writers' Festival
-The Ottawa Annimation Festival
-Fireworks competition at Casino du Lac Leamy
-Skating on the Canal

There are a number of one-off events recently that were exciting:

-The IIHF World Junior Championships (2009)
-NHL Draft (2008)
-FIFA World Cup 2006 (I worked in the ByWard Market, and after EVERY game, Canadians who were ethnically from the winning team would parade through the area in their cars waving flags and honking horns. When Italy won, I, along with thousands of others, went to Preston Street, which was flooded with people and a party like no other. THAT was exciting)
-The Grey Cup (2004)

Employment Sectors:

-Constantly up or down, start-up companies & major takeovers (ex: IBM-Cognos), booms and busts (Nortel), local business celebrities (Copelands, Terrence Matthews, Rod Bryden), our tech sector actually is very exciting to watch.
-Politics: if you mix with the right people, there actually is alot of excitment to the political intrigue and buzz of the city.

And this is without me harping on the cultural & educational institutions or outdoor activities that do make Ottawa unique.

yes it is boring!

[p_xavier]

The idea that Ottawa is boring is laughable.

Boringer should be the term. Sure, the city has a lot of positive coming on, but a LOT has still to be done.


Just for the next two weeks, Montréal en Lumières:

http://www.montrealenlumiere.com/accueil_en.aspx

On the 27th, metro, stores, museums etc. are open all night.

For the nuit blanche, the metro becomes the biggest art gallery.


So yes, while you got the NAC for your couple of shows, you have about 100 activities in ONE night, in the middle of the night to be exact.


As a young professional who can live where he wants, which one looks better?

[AuxTown]

Comparing Ottawa to Montreal, a city that is 2.5x it's size and considered the cultural mecca of Canada, is ridiculous. People from Montreal seem to have this smug attitude that everything in their hometown is so much deeper and artsy than anywhere else in Canada. And, while they may hold the title in Canada currently as a centre of high culture, it's attitudes like that which will allow other growing centres like Ottawa, Calgary, Edmonton, Vancouver (even Winnipeg and Saskatoon) to make up ground and even surpass them in terms of quality cultural events/festivals.

Ottawa is not boring and anyone who says that it is is welcome to move away in order to leave me a little more space at Bluesfest, Sens games, trendy clubs/bars, outdoor activity venues (Gatineau Park, Rideau Canal, Experimental Farm), and the many arts festivals/shows that this city has to offer. You can have Queue de Cheval (terribly overrated) and I'll dine at one of the many upandcoming and underrated restaurants that Ottawa has to offer (see above posts).

[bikegypsy]

there are lots of great cities - New York, Chicago, Vancouver, London, Paris...

Vancouver pales in comparison with others on this list.. it is so different than the others. It's much much smaller, quieter and is an outdoors city while the other are true bustling megapolises which function 24hours a day.


On the 27th, metro, stores, museums etc. are open all night.


Most events are over at 3am. Some stores in some areas are open. The metro runs but not on its full schedule.

Having said that, Nuits Blanches -- a copy of the event in Paris -- is a lot of fun and i believe is the city's best festival, despite not being original to the city.

As a young professional who can live where he wants, which one looks better?

Depends what you want. Everyone is different and want different things. I chose Montreal only to realise it was too small for what I wanted to do. I loved it at first but eventually got bored of the attitude "we're the best and the rest is shit". Montreal can't walk the talk. Period. It doens't mean it's dull, it means it talks too much.

I actually spent a few years going back and forth and enjoyed both for various reasons. I love the Market in Ottawa and love Outremont and le Plateau in Montreal. I love that aspect of Ott where everything is yet to be done and always appreciated the vibrant cultural scene in Mtl.

I work in the creative field (was employed in downtown Montreal as a creative director for an ad agency). Had to act and dress a certain way and had to listen to bullshit (rara) talk of epic proportions. Montrealers secretelly want to be Parisians or New Yorkers.

Meanwhile, my colleagues in NY acted normally, dressed as they wished and just got down to business. They would praise Manhattan for its sense of freedom, that it accepted all and cherished all.

True world class cities don't need to try so hard. They don;t need a ton of pre-packaged/sponsored to death events and certainly don't need to continuously justify themselves. New Yorkers don't try to make Bostonians or Washingtonians feel like crap.

Generally speaking Ottawans are just tired of being bashed on. Yes, Montreal is fun. But it is small and quiet compared to NY and Tokyo.

Ottawa is good and getting better and most of all, it doesn't pretend to be anything else but Ottawa. It doesn't yearn to be a copy of Paris, New York, Houston or Hong Kong.

[cityguy]

That's the problem,Ottawa needs a city hall with a vision,helping to make our city more dynamic.

[reidjr]

Again where does this idea of the nac only having a few shows come from.Lets take the nac just to start there are shows on almost every night some of the biggest names on broadway come to the nac.Then look around the city at all the other thearters each year there is a ton of shows in ottawa.Then look at all the festivals and some very good ones.Then look at the museums/concerts etc i can go on the fact is ottawa is anything but lacking in this area.Then out side of the arts and culture scene there is aslo tons to do from walking along the cabnal to shopping and again the list goes on.Is ottawa perfect no but it is not a bad city and is not nearly as boring as some make it out to be.Ottawa is not trying to cope any other city the same can not be said about citys like toronto.Who yes some would say are trying to copy ny in return making things worse.

[Mille Sabords]

True world class cities don't need to try so hard. They don;t need a ton of pre-packaged/sponsored to death events and certainly don't need to continuously justify themselves. New Yorkers don't try to make Bostonians or Washingtonians feel like crap.

Generally speaking Ottawans are just tired of being bashed on. Yes, Montreal is fun. But it is small and quiet compared to NY and Tokyo.

Ottawa is good and getting better and most of all, it doesn't pretend to be anything else but Ottawa. It doesn't yearn to be a copy of Paris, New York, Houston or Hong Kong.

Words of wisdom right there, brother. I couldn't agree with you more. I am a big fan of Montreal and Toronto for what they are and I work on making my city what I want it to be. Before the age of instant communications and constant comparisons, this would've been the normal way to city-build. Get inspired elsewhere and adapt the best ideas to your own place.

[p_xavier]

Ottawa is not boring and anyone who says that it is is welcome to move away in order to leave me a little more space at Bluesfest, Sens games, trendy clubs/bars, outdoor activity venues (Gatineau Park, Rideau Canal, Experimental Farm), and the many arts festivals/shows that this city has to offer. You can have Queue de Cheval (terribly overrated) and I'll dine at one of the many upandcoming and underrated restaurants that Ottawa has to offer (see above posts).

Well I already moved! And you think there are no upcoming restaurants elsewhere? It's not about the population, it's about what to do with it. Many european cities has lower population Ottawa, and have a better live.

I would say that Toronto has stolen the title of cultural capital of Canada.

I say that Ottawa is become more interesting, but it is no way a unique or even fun city. First of all, its people should say "hi" when meeting people on the sidewalks, like "friendly" cities. This was one of my biggest pet peeve there.

[p_xavier]

Vancouver pales in comparison with others on this list.. it is so different than the others. It's much much smaller, quieter and is an outdoors city while the other are true bustling megapolises which function 24hours a day.



Most events are over at 3am. Some stores in some areas are open. The metro runs but not on its full schedule.

Having said that, Nuits Blanches -- a copy of the event in Paris -- is a lot of fun and i believe is the city's best festival, despite not being original to the city.


Depends what you want. Everyone is different and want different things. I chose Montreal only to realise it was too small for what I wanted to do. I loved it at first but eventually got bored of the attitude "we're the best and the rest is shit". Montreal can't walk the talk. Period. It doens't mean it's dull, it means it talks too much.

I actually spent a few years going back and forth and enjoyed both for various reasons. I love the Market in Ottawa and love Outremont and le Plateau in Montreal. I love that aspect of Ott where everything is yet to be done and always appreciated the vibrant cultural scene in Mtl.

I work in the creative field (was employed in downtown Montreal as a creative director for an ad agency). Had to act and dress a certain way and had to listen to bullshit (rara) talk of epic proportions. Montrealers secretelly want to be Parisians or New Yorkers.

Meanwhile, my colleagues in NY acted normally, dressed as they wished and just got down to business. They would praise Manhattan for its sense of freedom, that it accepted all and cherished all.

True world class cities don't need to try so hard. They don;t need a ton of pre-packaged/sponsored to death events and certainly don't need to continuously justify themselves. New Yorkers don't try to make Bostonians or Washingtonians feel like crap.

Generally speaking Ottawans are just tired of being bashed on. Yes, Montreal is fun. But it is small and quiet compared to NY and Tokyo.

Ottawa is good and getting better and most of all, it doesn't pretend to be anything else but Ottawa. It doesn't yearn to be a copy of Paris, New York, Houston or Hong Kong.

For sure, Toronto also started the festival. But like someone mentioned, there is nothing wrong about doing some other city is doing, if it works here and is sucessful.

But I agree with the Paris comment, every city likes to emulate another. Toronto wants to be New York. I would definitely move to Paris given the opportunity, though the extreme socialism there could bother me.

I didn't like London much, and loathed Brussels.


Ottawa gets bashed because of people that don't want the city to come a big city. A big city has infrastructures, activities, mindset of what it makes it a big city.


Small city mindset:
I will never get over the fact that there was no transit service for nearly two months.

[Acajack]

LA actually has a fairly functional transit system, that carries over a million riders per weekday

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transportation_in_Los_Angeles

It includes buses and a subway (yes, LA has a subway).



LA's rapid transit system is a joke for a city of its size. Montreal and Toronto have more than twice as many stations despite the fact that LA is three to five times their size.

[reidjr]

Ottawa is a good city and is fun some times i think people are just expecting way to much.There is alot of events in ottawa and at times i think some even in ottawa don't know how much there really is to do in the city.I am not sure if i would go as far sas saying toronto is cultural capital you look at the events and shows in ottawa and toronto and its very close.

[Acajack]

On "cultural capitals", I'd be interested in hearing people's definitions of the term...

[reidjr]

On "cultural capitals", I'd be interested in hearing people's definitions of the term...

For me its means a alot of plays/concerts/festivals as well as museums and things such as galla's.

[lrt's friend]

I will say that Ottawa has come a long, long way in my lifetime. We shouldn't be comparing ourselves with cities 3 or 10 times our size. We shouldn't be comparing ourselves with cities from a completely different culture. We need Ottawa to become more vibrant in its own way. We need to encourage creative people to bring us new exciting things to do. We need to keep the NIMBYs under reasonable control so that they don't kill every new idea. We need a City Council with a little vision and willingness to get things done. We have to make sure that our politicians don't make terrible decisions such as the Rideau Street bus mall that we are still recovering from after 25 years. We need a rapid transit system that actually reaches the people instead of a bunch of highway interchanges. This is absolutely necessary in order to draw people downtown and make it the lively place that everybody wants.

[flar]

I think Ottawa is a little bland. I don't think it lacks anything in particular. Ottawa has a lot to offer but there is something unexciting about it. It probably has something to do with the demographics, lots of highly educated, highly technical and bureaucratic people, maybe too high a proportion of introverts. Very private, suburban and upper middle class in ethos. The public service definitely perpetuates a culture of mediocrity.

The thing I've noticed the most is Ottawa audiences are somewhat less than enthusiastic, reflectling the general lack of exuberance found here. I was at the NAC a couple weeks ago and the applause at the end of the show was at the same ho-hum level for each performer. There should have been a roar for the standouts. Same when I went to a comedy club a few weeks ago, barely anyone laughing, no one was drinking. Same at Bluesfest and other music shows.

Ottawa is also a very unfriendly city, people tend to be very polite but it is very difficult to strike up a conversation or get to know anyone. If you do manage to talk to someone, odds are the next time you see the person they don't even say hi.

[rakerman]

I think a lot of the discussion is between "things to do" (which there are lots of) and "thriving nightlife / people on the streets". I find there are lots of things to do in Ottawa, but it is true that things are quiet late at night. That's in part culture, in part density, in part geography. It's cold and dark on a winter's night, not many people live in the downtown core, and we don't have a cafe culture.

Thanks mostly to developers chasing the condo boom we are going to get more people in the core. I still would like to see some strong, sustained intentions from City Hall and Ottawa citizens to follow the Copenhagen model and push year after year after year for a more pedestrian friendly, cafe-culture city. It took Copenhagen 40 years of sustained, concerted effort to get where they are now. Ottawa should be doing the same.

Meanwhile, I enjoy what Ottawa has to offer.

[Acajack]

For me its means a alot of plays/concerts/festivals as well as museums and things such as galla's.

It's all that, but it is also in my opinion a question of having original* literary, theatre, dance, music, film, television, etc. production scenes.

*By original, I mean creating your own stuff, not just local productions of Samuel Beckett or Neil Simon that you can see a few times a year in every single burg of more than 10,000 people across the anglosphere.

[bikegypsy]

[QUOTE=d_jeffrey;4702116]
Ottawa gets bashed because of people that don't want the city to come a big city. A big city has infrastructures, activities, mindset of what it makes it a big city.


Small city mindset:
QUOTE]

So true. It will happen whether they like it or not. It's a slow grueling process for this city, like a series of trips to the dentist. Nothing is ever easy in Ott, but it will get there.

[flar]

I don't think this has anyting to do with "things to do" or "nightlife/people on the streets". Ottawa has all that, its more the ethos/culture of the city that leads to claims of "boring" or "bland."

IMO, Downtown Ottawa being dead is not really a problem, the financial district in Toronto is dead after hours too. Afterall, it is offices. Bank, Elgin and the Market are vibrant, healthy areas radiating from downtown. Sparks could use a lift, but every street can't be hopping.

[Dado]

To be a great city, Ottawa will need to get a) a real transportation system (that means deemed as essential service and be actually rapid) b) a vivid cultural scene (a few plays and shows is not that) c) unique restaurants (that is one that is definitely getting there) d) rid of public servants e) more immigrants

So Copenhagen and Stockholm aren't great cities? Both have lots of (d) and much less (e) than we do. Worse still for (d) would be Brussels. Or what of the megacities of Asia - they pretty much all fail on (b), (c) and (e) compared to us. Even Hong Kong, which, while technically it is a city made up of immigrants, is really just a Chinese-populated city created under British rule - ethnically it's probably more homogeneous than Kingston, never mind Ottawa.


Frankly, what I think you're doing is mixing cause and effect. Great cities don't result from the things in your list, but rather these sort of things occur in great cities (except (d)). Just dumping boatloads of immigrants, opening restaurants and creating a real transportation system aren't going to make Ottawa a great city.

The risk aversion aspect of the bureaucratic mentality that permeates Ottawa is, I think, one of the greatest barriers to Ottawa becoming a great city. There's a reactionary political culture in Ottawa. On paper, Ottawa has a lot going for it - the cultural trappings of being the capital, a fairly rich history that has endowed us with some significant assets like the Byward Market and the canal - no other major Canadian city has something quite like the canal in so central a location, a good location with fairly prominent natural assets close at hand (I can be cycling or skiing or skating or swimming or sailing or canoeing or whitewater kayaking or whatever in a relatively short period of time, unlike, for example, Toronto). We've even got a linguistic duality the likes of which is really only found in Montreal. The federal government provides a degree of stability and its promotion-agency, the NCC, is responsible for creating or having got the ball rolling on many of the fine festivals and events that occur throughout the year. We've got many of the amenities (and the potential for more) that one would expect and hope to find in a great city. And yet... that risk-averse political culture suppresses most of the potential.

Take our favourite target, transit. Our reactionary bureaucratic political culture couldn't take the risk of adopting light rail rather than BRT in the late 1970s/early 1980s like Edmonton and Calgary did. It's not that light rail in and of itself would have made us great, but rather the willingness to take the risk on it would have been a step in the right direction. The history of the O-Train is illustrative here because of the sheer amount of bureaucratic intransigence that had to be fought and beaten back to get it. It was our zenith moment in the high-flying late 90s and for a brief moment it looked like a new political culture might emerge coinciding with the new City, but, alas, the bureaucratic culture reasserted itself with a vengeance. The openness to new ideas just is not there.


I honestly don't know how a city fixes a problem like this, and we (not us here, but city-wide) don't likely even realize we have this problem. Changing a political culture, and indeed a wider culture in the populace, is not an easy task but until we do we're not going to accede to the greatness to which we aspire.

[p_xavier]

So Copenhagen and Stockholm aren't great cities? Both have lots of (d) and much less (e) than we do. Worse still for (d) would be Brussels. Or what of the megacities of Asia - they pretty much all fail on (b), (c) and (e) compared to us. Even Hong Kong, which, while technically it is a city made up of immigrants, is really just a Chinese-populated city created under British rule - ethnically it's probably more homogeneous than Kingston, never mind Ottawa.

They're great cities, just I wouldn't live there. But given the choice, of course I would prefer them to Ottawa. If people remember, I still love swedish pop!

Immigrants are not a necessity, it just helps with variety. Stockholm can be considered a city of risk takers.

But Brussels, I will never set a foot in that city again.

[lrt's friend]

I remember my trip to Amsterdam. A great city with its history and canals. Its tramways and bicycle lanes made access to downtown easy and the streets were buzzing. Part of this was because of the density. It was the place to be, for shopping and whatever else. What Amsterdam did not have was the variety of immigration, which has enormously enriched Ottawa in the last generation. This greatly affects the dining choices.

I think inner city density affects how vibrant it is. Ottawa was only a small city when the automobile came on the scene. This is especially the case when comparing us with Toronto and the even older Montreal. People in dense neighbourhoods tend to spill out onto the streets and enjoy the culture of the city. The suburban lifestyle is entrenched on a more widespread basis in Ottawa, so instead of hitting the streets, we hop in the car and head for the nearest shopping centre and then retreat back to our suburban bunkers. This widespread suburban culture also affects the friendliness of the citizens.

This suburban culture can only be slowly changed with increasing density in the inner neighbourhoods and by providing broader access to high quality transit.

[deva]

Or what of the megacities of Asia - they pretty much all fail on (b), (c) and (e) compared to us.

Which megacities are you thinking of?

[Mille Sabords]

I remember my trip to Amsterdam. A great city with its history and canals. Its tramways and bicycle lanes made access to downtown easy and the streets were buzzing. Part of this was because of the density. It was the place to be, for shopping and whatever else. What Amsterdam did not have was the variety of immigration, which has enormously enriched Ottawa in the last generation. This greatly affects the dining choices.

I think inner city density affects how vibrant it is. Ottawa was only a small city when the automobile came on the scene. This is especially the case when comparing us with Toronto and the even older Montreal. People in dense neighbourhoods tend to spill out onto the streets and enjoy the culture of the city. The suburban lifestyle is entrenched on a more widespread basis in Ottawa, so instead of hitting the streets, we hop in the car and head for the nearest shopping centre and then retreat back to our suburban bunkers. This widespread suburban culture also affects the friendliness of the citizens.

This suburban culture can only be slowly changed with increasing density in the inner neighbourhoods and by providing broader access to high quality transit.

Very true. The more a city densifies, the more it will have that natural instinct to grow a street life.

I know Amsterdam well. The streets aren't the only thing buzzing, by the way, which is another factor (like it or no) that makes Amsterdam such a unique place. Its name is equated with freedom and easy-going hedonism. :D

[RTWAP]

I remember my trip to Amsterdam. A great city with its history and canals. Its tramways and bicycle lanes made access to downtown easy and the streets were buzzing. Part of this was because of the density. It was the place to be, for shopping and whatever else. What Amsterdam did not have was the variety of immigration, which has enormously enriched Ottawa in the last generation. This greatly affects the dining choices.

I think inner city density affects how vibrant it is. Ottawa was only a small city when the automobile came on the scene. This is especially the case when comparing us with Toronto and the even older Montreal. People in dense neighbourhoods tend to spill out onto the streets and enjoy the culture of the city. The suburban lifestyle is entrenched on a more widespread basis in Ottawa, so instead of hitting the streets, we hop in the car and head for the nearest shopping centre and then retreat back to our suburban bunkers. This widespread suburban culture also affects the friendliness of the citizens.

This suburban culture can only be slowly changed with increasing density in the inner neighbourhoods and by providing broader access to high quality transit.

Excellent points.

[Dado]

Which megacities are you thinking of?

Just about any other than perhaps Singapore.

[SHiRO]

I remember my trip to Amsterdam. A great city with its history and canals. Its tramways and bicycle lanes made access to downtown easy and the streets were buzzing. Part of this was because of the density. It was the place to be, for shopping and whatever else. What Amsterdam did not have was the variety of immigration, which has enormously enriched Ottawa in the last generation. This greatly affects the dining choices.

Sorry what?!

Amsterdam is FAR more diverse than Ottawa! It has 30% foreign born, which is comparable to cities like Sydney and New York. Ottawa is at something like 22%.
Over half (that's 50%) of people are of an ethnic minority and in a recent study Amsterdam was said to have the highest number of different nationalities by passport (177, New York was at 150).
Frankly, your claim is ludicrous, as Amsterdam is also a heavy tourism city with over 8 million visitors a year, so walking the streets of central Amsterdam you probably see that 70% of people are of non ethnic Dutch origen.

Lastly, you as a tourist not being able to find good restaurants is hardly surprising. In reality Amsterdam probably comes only after London, Paris and perhaps Brussels in variety of choices in Europe. It is bound to have more variety and on average higher quality than Ottawa (how many Michellin stars?), which I'm sure is a nice enough town...

[waterloowarrior]

Lastly, you as a tourist not being able to find good restaurants is hardly surprising. In reality Amsterdam probably comes only after London, Paris and perhaps Brussels in variety of choices in Europe. It is bound to have more variety and on average higher quality than Ottawa (how many Michellin stars?), which I'm sure is a nice enough town...

Michelin hasn't published any of their restaurant guides for cities in Canada, they don't really have much coverage in North America yet.

Maybe lrt's friend was looking in the wrong place... Amsterdam has plenty of dining choices available ;)

http://wikitravel.org/upload/shared/5/5e/Croquette_vending_machine.JPG
wikitravel (we need some of these machines in Ottawa!)

[lrt's friend]

Sorry what?!

Amsterdam is FAR more diverse than Ottawa! It has 30% foreign born, which is comparable to cities like Sydney and New York. Ottawa is at something like 22%.
Over half (that's 50%) of people are of an ethnic minority and in a recent study Amsterdam was said to have the highest number of different nationalities by passport (177, New York was at 150).
Frankly, your claim is ludicrous, as Amsterdam is also a heavy tourism city with over 8 million visitors a year, so walking the streets of central Amsterdam you probably see that 70% of people are of non ethnic Dutch origen.

Lastly, you as a tourist not being able to find good restaurants is hardly surprising. In reality Amsterdam probably comes only after London, Paris and perhaps Brussels in variety of choices in Europe. It is bound to have more variety and on average higher quality than Ottawa (how many Michellin stars?), which I'm sure is a nice enough town...

My comment had nothing to do with the quality of restaurants. Obviously, great European cities offer a greater choice of excellent restaurants. My comment ties the diversity of immigration with the diversity of ethnic dining choices and this has exploded in Ottawa in the last generation. No doubt, Amsterdam has diversified since I was there with increasing EU open border policies but Indonesian was the dominant ethnic cuisine when I was there as I recall.

[BlueJay]

An excellent article comparing Ottawa to Vancouver by Ken Grey, Ottawa Citizen.

http://www.ottawacitizen.com/sports/Vancouver+beats+Ottawa/2574422/story.html

[Mille Sabords]

An excellent article comparing Ottawa to Vancouver by Ken Grey, Ottawa Citizen.

http://www.ottawacitizen.com/sports/Vancouver+beats+Ottawa/2574422/story.html

I thought it was a terrible article. A half-hearted, trying-to-be-funny piece of grumpiana that the Citizen produces as part of its duty to some of its readers. I thought the piece lacked imagination, laced focus other than to rightly point out a certain ambition deficit, the comparisons are bizarre and irrelevant... a very junior piece from one of the Citizen's senior guys. Big let down. He could've done so much more with the theme.

[lrt's friend]

The bigger disappointment is the mayor who claimed that Ottawa would have a swagger under his leadership. We ended up with no leadership at all.

To be honest, although the article could have been better written, it reflects my sentiments that Vancouver is doing exciting things and Ottawa is not.

[reidjr]

The bigger disappointment is the mayor who claimed that Ottawa would have a swagger under his leadership. We ended up with no leadership at all.

To be honest, although the article could have been better written, it reflects my sentiments that Vancouver is doing exciting things and Ottawa is not.

How is vancouver doing exciting things and ottawa is not.

[flar]

Right now, Vancouver is hosting the Olympics.

[blackjagger]

How is vancouver doing exciting things and ottawa is not.

Just finished the Canadian Line, planning the Green Line, long term plan for M-Line to UBC.

Offering development incentives to spur density.

In general just having long term goals for the city's and outlying community centre's futures.

Cheers,
Josh

[p_xavier]

Right now, Vancouver is hosting the Olympics.

:haha: I actually spilled my juice on my keyboard.

[Mille Sabords]

To be honest, although the article could have been better written, it reflects my sentiments that Vancouver is doing exciting things and Ottawa is not.

They are. Ken Gray could've got more mileage out of his piece by being more serious than his haf-assed attempt at derision, which ends up missing the point. Because there is a point to be made, for sure.

[Ottawan]

I agree that Ottawa's complacency is a problem that needs to be attacked. I also agree that we could learn many lessons from Vancouver.

That said, one could make any city look bad by drawing an example of something good from one city, and then ignoring the similar examples in another city to specifically find something bad. Usually I am fond of Ken Gray's opinions, but this one was garbage.

Here's my response to his list:

1. Vancouver has mountains; we have hills.

True, but anyone who has visited Gatineau Park, hiked up some of those hills, or better yet gone skiing and taken a moment to stop at the top and look out over the beauty that is the Canadian Shield knows that our landscape is just as beautiful and majestic, just very different.

2. Vancouver has an ocean; we have a river.

2. Vancouver has a straight that is connected to a very cold ocean, Ottawa has three rivers and one canal, and the Ottawa River is the most majestic river I have ever come accross in Europe or North America (haven't yet travelled elsewhere) aside from the Saint Lawrence.

3. They have the Olympics; we lost out to Hawkesbury for the Eastern Ontario Bowlerama Five-Pin Shoot-out qualifications and Bass Fishin' Derby.

Did we want the Bowlerama and Bass Fishin' Derby?

4. They have Whistler; we have the warmup hut at Lac Philippe.

While Whistler and Vancouver are together hosting the Olympic Games, Whistler is in fact 125 kilometers from Vancouver. Ottawa is only slightly further than that from Algonquin Park.

5. They have Nelly Furtado and Bryan Adams; we have Paul Anka.

5. They have Nelly Furtado; we have Alanis Morissette.

Also, Bryan Adams actually was born in Kingston and went to high school in Ottawa. It's more difficult to attribute 'hometowns' to celebrities once they have money, fame, multiple homes, etc.

6. They have Pamela Anderson; we have Charlotte Whitton.

I'm actually quite fine with that.

7. They have killer whales; we have canal carp.

Both are dangerous and equally inedible. Maybe Ken's onto something with this one...

8. They have grizzly bears; we have coyotes.

8. They have grizzly bears; we have black bears, wolves, coyotes. Hooray for wildlife!

9. They have the world watching the Olympics; we have 14 insomniacs nodding off in front of CPAC.

I take offence to such a stereotype. I am not an insomniac!

10. They have entrepreneurs; we have bureaucrats.

10. They have entrepreneurs; we have bureaucrats AND entrepreneurs.

11. They have a stadium that seats 60,000; we dynamited a quarter of our stadium before it collapsed.

Good point. Thankfully Landsdowne Live should remedy this situation.

12. They have a domed stadium; we have Larry O'Brien's chrome dome.

Not sure what he means by a 'chrome dome', but any potshots of O'Brien are always welcome.

13. They have a football team; we don't.

13. They have a football team, and soon so will we.

14. They have a soccer team; we don't.

14. They have a soccer team, and soon so will we.

15. They have a baseball team; we don't.

15. They have a baseball team; and soon we will again.

16. They have a rapid-rail transit system; we have big, honkin' buses in for repairs.

Point taken. If all goes well, this will be rectified over the next few years, although I would be in favour of a more aggressive approach to modernizing and expanding our rapid transit system than is even espoused in Ottawa's current plan.

17. They have Gastown; we have Gloucester.

This one really makes me laugh. Vancouver has plenty of suburbs. How can you justify comparing completely different parts of each city simply because they share the letter 'G'. Additionally, Gastown isn't necessarily the best place in the world. A much more apt comparison is "They have Gastown, we have Vanier", although this does not work greatly in favour of either city. If we wanted to favour Ottawa, we could say "They have Gastown, we have (insert "The Glebe", "Little Italy", "New Edinburgh", etc)."

18. They have one of the finest cities in the world; we have one of the finest cities in the Ottawa Valley.

This one is just an unsubstantiated cheap-shot. I would have thought Ken above such meaningless slander.

19. They have a brilliant, intensely developed community; we have LeBreton Flats.

Another poor comparison: the developed part of one city vs. the undeveloped part of another. I, contrary to many, still believe that Lebreton has the potential to be a great community once fully developed. Please, can we hold our judgement until then.

20. We have the National Capital Commission; they have nothing in comparison.

Excellent point! Huge advantage for us! (and I mean that sincerely)

21. We have Alex Cullen; see above.

Ok, point taken.

22. They have the new Olympic facilities; we have Bruce Pit.

Don't forget the Conroy Pit!

More seriously, it's true that Vancouver will benefit from those facilities, but Ottawa is hardly bereft of Athletic venues/facilities. And for speed skating there's always the Canal.

23. They have the Lions Gate Bridge; we have the third lane on the Champlain Bridge.

23. They have the Lions Gate Bridge, we have the Union Bridge (now referred to as the Portage Bridge), which is older than the Lions Gate, and equally historically significant.

24. They have Stanley Park; we have Lansdowne Park.

24. They have Stanley Park; we have Gatineau Park. Both cities should pat themselves on the back.

25. They have Granville Island; we have the Westboro Superstore.

25. They have Granville Island; we have the ByWard Market.

26. They have mountain views; we have the Carp Road landfill.

Wow, I never knew that Vancouver doesn't produce any garbage! While on the topic of garbage, I was reading this opinion piece by Ken Gray the other day...

27. They have the Olympic flame; we have a space heater in the Conference Centre.

At least the space heater works.

28. They have majestic forests; we have One Hundred Foot Line.

28. They have majestic forests; we have majestic forests.

29. They set a goal and accomplished it; we don't have a goal.

Excellent point. Finally something good from this article.

30. They do big things; we don't.

As an optimist, I would change this to:

30. They have done big things; we haven't yet.

[harls]

While Whistler and Vancouver are together hosting the Olympic Games, Whistler is in fact 125 kilometers from Vancouver. Ottawa is only slightly further than that from Algonquin Park.


A better comparison would be Mont-Tremblant (200 km) . Not that Algonquin Park is without its charms.

[SHiRO]

My comment had nothing to do with the quality of restaurants. Obviously, great European cities offer a greater choice of excellent restaurants. My comment ties the diversity of immigration with the diversity of ethnic dining choices and this has exploded in Ottawa in the last generation. No doubt, Amsterdam has diversified since I was there with increasing EU open border policies but Indonesian was the dominant ethnic cuisine when I was there as I recall.
There's no doubt in my mind that Amsterdam has 1. more immigrants (relative and absolute) 2. more diverse groups of immigrants 3. more restaurants 4. greater variety of restaurants.

There is no dominant ethnic cuisine in Amsterdam, sure you'll find many Asian restaurants (Chinese, Indonesian, Thai, Japanese, Indian, etc), but the variety is enormous. Like I said, second only (in Europe) to London, Paris and perhaps Brussels. If you think Ottawa can compete with this I'd like to see your arguments...:)

[Kitchissippi]

Amazing to see the number of people who go and see the sound and light show on Parliament Hill this year. I've seen it three times already and probably will a few more times as I host a few visitors over the summer. There are easily a few thousand even on a week night. It's like a mini Canada Day every night. Even the souvenir shop and hotdog stands on Metcalfe stay open for it.

[reidjr]

There's no doubt in my mind that Amsterdam has 1. more immigrants (relative and absolute) 2. more diverse groups of immigrants 3. more restaurants 4. greater variety of restaurants.

There is no dominant ethnic cuisine in Amsterdam, sure you'll find many Asian restaurants (Chinese, Indonesian, Thai, Japanese, Indian, etc), but the variety is enormous. Like I said, second only (in Europe) to London, Paris and perhaps Brussels. If you think Ottawa can compete with this I'd like to see your arguments...:)

I don't think anyone is saying that at all.What some are saying si ottawa resturant selection is very good and can challenge places like toronto etc.

[BlackRedGold]

I agree that Ottawa's complacency is a problem that needs to be attacked. I also agree that we could learn many lessons from Vancouver.

That said, one could make any city look bad by drawing an example of something good from one city, and then ignoring the similar examples in another city to specifically find something bad. Usually I am fond of Ken Gray's opinions, but this one was garbage.


The article is no longer up. What was his Ottawa equivalent to the Downtown Eastside?