Hypothetical discussion - Other locations that would be good for re-development?

[halifaxboyns]

Since the initial hypothetical discussion on Scotia Square and my thread on Agricola and Gottingen street - I wanted to see what people thought about other sites that might be good locations where we could think about change in HRM?

I don't want to put my opinons here yet - but I want to see what we can come up with...

[Jonovision]

I think Shannon Park is an obvious one. That site has so much potential. And of course the Cogswell Interchange. I think along with the interchange it would be interesting to look at what could be done along Barrington North of the interchange.

[Dmajackson]

There's a whole slew of them around HRM without expanding into the wilderness more;

- Grain Elevators
- Cogswell
- Forum Lands
- Oland Brewery (Hydrostone)
- Birch Cove
- Mill Cove
- Brightwood
- Ashburn
- Sunset Cove (I'll post a map in a minute since nobody else probably knows this place)
- Shannon Park
- Windmill Road DND Lands (Sub repair area)
- Dartmouth Shopping Centre (Wyse/Green/Nantucket triangle)

And a whole lot more areas around HRM.

[Jstaleness]

Shannon Park is a must. With Trinity Harbour View going in up the hill now it would be nice if they had something nice to look at from up there. That something would be a Stadium of course! As much as I would like to see high-rises there I just don't think they would be an easy sell given that area has a power station and Bridge on either side of it. Noise pollution and the occasional smell from the NSP site would make it difficult. I suppose the stadium would face the smell but bridge noise would not be an issue.
Yum! Popcorn, Hot-Dogs and Power Plant. I can smell it now.

[halifaxboyns]

Shannon Park is a must. With Trinity Harbour View going in up the hill now it would be nice if they had something nice to look at from up there. That something would be a Stadium of course! As much as I would like to see high-rises there I just don't think they would be an easy sell given that area has a power station and Bridge on either side of it. Noise pollution and the occasional smell from the NSP site would make it difficult. I suppose the stadium would face the smell but bridge noise would not be an issue.
Yum! Popcorn, Hot-Dogs and Power Plant. I can smell it now.

You might be able to incorporate residential if you used the stadium and some other things as a buffer between them. I'd also add that if that's going to go at that location - a ferry terminal will be a must.

I see Quinpool Road as an interesting spot that has potential - the same with the Canada Post site on Almond. If that had to move because it outgrew the site, it would be an amazing opportunity. That new condo building that went up near Sobey's could be a very good context to set for how the area could develop, with some office development thrown in. It's along a great number of bus routes so would be quite condusive to transit.

[halifaxboyns]

There's a whole slew of them around HRM without expanding into the wilderness more;

- Grain Elevators
- Cogswell
- Forum Lands
- Oland Brewery (Hydrostone)
- Birch Cove
- Mill Cove
- Brightwood
- Ashburn
- Sunset Cove (I'll post a map in a minute since nobody else probably knows this place)
- Shannon Park
- Windmill Road DND Lands (Sub repair area)
- Dartmouth Shopping Centre (Wyse/Green/Nantucket triangle)

And a whole lot more areas around HRM.

Wow great list! I love it.

My only problem with Brightwood is their viewplane. I don't agree with having a viewplane from a piece of land that wasn't held by the city. My thought would be get rid of it; because you do two things: By getting rid of it; you open up about 80% of downtown Dartmouth to higher heights and so there could be more towers on the Dartmouth Side.

The second (which is a negative for any development at brightwood) is that you may create view obsticles - but depending on what you put there; does it really matter? Views aren't a fundamental right - except if you are citadell hill!

[Keith P.]

My only problem with Brightwood is their viewplane. I don't agree with having a viewplane from a piece of land that wasn't held by the city.

The second (which is a negative for any development at brightwood) is that you may create view obsticles - but depending on what you put there; does it really matter? Views aren't a fundamental right - except if you are citadell hill!

The main problem with Brightwood is that the councillor for the area will not allow consideration of any development of the site, since she is a member and likes playing golf there. She singlehandedly scuttled a proposal for the site 3-4 years ago.

[Wishblade]

The main problem with Brightwood is that the councillor for the area will not allow consideration of any development of the site, since she is a member and likes playing golf there. She singlehandedly scuttled a proposal for the site 3-4 years ago.

Thats good in a way. When she's ousted as councillor maybe we can get a councillor with a little more vision and get the viewplane bylaw lifted. :yes:

[sdm]

Shannon Park is a must. With Trinity Harbour View going in up the hill now it would be nice if they had something nice to look at from up there. That something would be a Stadium of course! As much as I would like to see high-rises there I just don't think they would be an easy sell given that area has a power station and Bridge on either side of it. Noise pollution and the occasional smell from the NSP site would make it difficult. I suppose the stadium would face the smell but bridge noise would not be an issue.
Yum! Popcorn, Hot-Dogs and Power Plant. I can smell it now.

I would love Shannon Park to be developed, however there are two issues that would need to be resolved. One is the environmental issues on the site, and second there is questions surrounding how much of the lands are owned by the federal government. Mi'kmaq from the Millbrook Reserve have applied for a portion of the land.

[sdm]

You might be able to incorporate residential if you used the stadium and some other things as a buffer between them. I'd also add that if that's going to go at that location - a ferry terminal will be a must.

I see Quinpool Road as an interesting spot that has potential - the same with the Canada Post site on Almond. If that had to move because it outgrew the site, it would be an amazing opportunity. That new condo building that went up near Sobey's could be a very good context to set for how the area could develop, with some office development thrown in. It's along a great number of bus routes so would be quite condusive to transit.

One site i've always had a good feeling about was the redevelopment of the Ben's bakery site on quinpool.

[Jstaleness]

I never even thought of the Bakery. Anyone live in that area? Would the residents around be opposed to a Tower on that site? Nearest one is Atlantica Hotel right?

[Keith P.]

I never even thought of the Bakery. Anyone live in that area? Would the residents around be opposed to a Tower on that site?

Of course they would oppose it -- this is Halifax.

"We're not Toronto!"

"It's too TALL!!!!"

Keep in mind that this area is the home of anti-development and heritage loons Commissar Howard Epstein and Jennifer Watts. You'd be lucky to get anything above 2 storeys past them.

[worldlyhaligonian]

All of the lands between robie and windsor north of young... I wouldn't mind some towers in there and the stadium!!!

[halifaxboyns]

All of the lands between robie and windsor north of young... I wouldn't mind some towers in there and the stadium!!!

Isn't that DND land mostly? If you could get that out - would be a good spot, great transportation links.

[Halifax Hillbilly]

All of the lands between robie and windsor north of young... I wouldn't mind some towers in there and the stadium!!!

South of Yonge as well, around the Post Office, Piercy's and the Forum, even down towards Agricola there is a lot of land around the brewery as others have pointed out. That area's money in my opinion, but will be a mess to develop well without strong secondary planning and a lot of commitment from HRM. Either way it's probably a long ways out, still a lot of vacant land closer to downtown with less hassles.

[worldlyhaligonian]

Isn't that DND land mostly? If you could get that out - would be a good spot, great transportation links.

DND should sell the lands to various groups (City, MetroTransit, private developers) and use the money to setup shop in less of a prime location.

I could see a major transportation hub here, some retail, residential, and potentially a stadium!

That area isn't appropriate for its current usage and I think car dealerships (with the exception of expensive imports) should move off peninsula.

[cormiermax]

The Dairy Queen on Spring Garden is what I want to see gone the most, South Park would look massive with a condo tower in that spot.

[-Harlington-]

looks like the HRM has already looked into what this thread is titled take a look:
http://www.halifax.ca/regionalplanning/documents/Map6_RegionalCentreOpportunitySites.pdf

[Dmajackson]

Here's a logical one in the "bomming" part of town;

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4058/4458903450_a0b014eea3_o.jpg
The radio/tv concrete block building on North Street between Robie and Agricola. Its currently broken into seven lots (three on Agricola, one on Willow, one on North, and the building itself is two lots).

I figure there's two possible scenarios;

1) The street layout could be left as is providing for continuous street frontage and more potential for high density. Low-rise retail/office use along North Street, townhouses or detached lots along Willow Street, a mid-rise along Agricola, and set back in the lot two high-rise towers with acess off of North Street.

2) Another idea would be to install a dividing street in line with John Street (a block south). This would increase street frontage and reduce the developable amount of land but could be good for the neighbourhood if done correctly. Willow would see townhouses rising and North would still see retail/office building(s). The new street would have townhouses to the west and a mid-rise building to the east acting as a base for a single high-rise tower placed near the centre (around the current radio tower location). Agricola would still get a mid-rise building with ground floor retail and possibly a second entrance to the high-rise.

With the McCully project abandoned I think the Agricola building should be office or hotel space to make the neighbourhood more attractive to all people. If developed correctly it could be as changing for the neighbourhood as Glastone Ridge. :)

[mcmcclassic]

The Dairy Queen on Spring Garden is what I want to see gone the most, South Park would look massive with a condo tower in that spot.

I agree majorly with this idea. I've mentioned to my buddies many times that the corner of Spring Garden and South Park st where the DQ is could pull off a tower. I think a tower there would compelete that entire stretch of South Park up to Citadel Hill.

[planarchy]

I agree majorly with this idea. I've mentioned to my buddies many times that the corner of Spring Garden and South Park st where the DQ is could pull off a tower. I think a tower there would compelete that entire stretch of South Park up to Citadel Hill.

Agreed. It is time for this site to be redeveloped. Such a prominent corner, a gateway to SGR, and will continue the trend of framing the Public Gardens. This is long overdue

[halifaxboyns]

Agreed. It is time for this site to be redeveloped. Such a prominent corner, a gateway to SGR, and will continue the trend of framing the Public Gardens. This is long overdue

I think I would go one step further and say that entire block would be a good candidate for towers completely. The Trillium is a good start, but if the DQ could be combined with a couple of the adjacent parcels to create one large parcel - you could have a nice large tower on that corner.

I'd also say it's time to take down that awful commercial building and replace it with something more residential in flavour, with a couple floors of office. Then repeat that for the rest of the block. That block is one of the few in that area not covered by a viewplane; hence the taller heights.

The other thing I'd suggest is redeveloping those parking lots. Those are subject to a viewplane and judging by adjacent building heights, you'd probably get 2 levels of commercial and 4 to 5 (maybe 6) of residential above. For the smaller parking lot (closer to the NSLC) I'd say that might be a good location for perhaps a boutique hotel, with 2 towers of 5 to 6 stories and restaurants below. Then the bigger parking lot could be residential with some ground floor commercial.

I'd also like to see the Bay move into downtown. So many of the Bay's locations are typically downtown; but not in Halifax (Toronto, Vancouver, Calgary and Edmonton they are in key downtown locations). I'd love to see them move into maybe City Centre Atlantic by taking those two older building next to CC and merging it into the existing mall with 2 or 3 floors. It would put them right across from Mill Brothers; which did a great job on their storefont. If not, they could potentially move into Park Lane or that other mall with the Scotia Bank in it (and Roots) - I can't think of the name.

[halifaxboyns]

Here's a logical one in the "bomming" part of town;

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4058/4458903450_a0b014eea3_o.jpg
The radio/tv concrete block building on North Street between Robie and Agricola. Its currently broken into seven lots (three on Agricola, one on Willow, one on North, and the building itself is two lots).

I figure there's two possible scenarios;

1) The street layout could be left as is providing for continuous street frontage and more potential for high density. Low-rise retail/office use along North Street, townhouses or detached lots along Willow Street, a mid-rise along Agricola, and set back in the lot two high-rise towers with acess off of North Street.

2) Another idea would be to install a dividing street in line with John Street (a block south). This would increase street frontage and reduce the developable amount of land but could be good for the neighbourhood if done correctly. Willow would see townhouses rising and North would still see retail/office building(s). The new street would have townhouses to the west and a mid-rise building to the east acting as a base for a single high-rise tower placed near the centre (around the current radio tower location). Agricola would still get a mid-rise building with ground floor retail and possibly a second entrance to the high-rise.

With the McCully project abandoned I think the Agricola building should be office or hotel space to make the neighbourhood more attractive to all people. If developed correctly it could be as changing for the neighbourhood as Glastone Ridge. :)

I'm really pleased with how well this thread has sparked discussion, I must say!

This site would be very doubtful I think since that's the central switching office for Aliant.

Unless their technology changed incredibly, I think they would be using that building for a long time. But we can always dream!

[Keith P.]

The other thing I'd suggest is redeveloping those parking lots. Those are subject to a viewplane and judging by adjacent building heights, you'd probably get 2 levels of commercial and 4 to 5 (maybe 6) of residential above. For the smaller parking lot (closer to the NSLC) I'd say that might be a good location for perhaps a boutique hotel, with 2 towers of 5 to 6 stories and restaurants below. Then the bigger parking lot could be residential with some ground floor commercial.

The parking lots are supposed to be included in the RFP that HRM has been saying they are going to issue for the part of the Infirmary lands that aren't getting used for the central library. When we will see that, who knows. They have been talking about it forever.

I'd also like to see the Bay move into downtown. So many of the Bay's locations are typically downtown; but not in Halifax (Toronto, Vancouver, Calgary and Edmonton they are in key downtown locations). I'd love to see them move into maybe City Centre Atlantic by taking those two older building next to CC and merging it into the existing mall with 2 or 3 floors. It would put them right across from Mill Brothers; which did a great job on their storefont. If not, they could potentially move into Park Lane or that other mall with the Scotia Bank in it (and Roots) - I can't think of the name.

The Bay in Halifax is doing virtually no business now, and I think such a move would kill them totally.

[someone123]

The "opportunity site" map is pretty dated. There's no Salter's Gate even. It's also a little misleading in that for example the Ralston Building is considered part of an "opportunity site".

I guess it's normal to expect the HRM to move at a glacial pace but it seems very odd that they are waiting so long to release the RFP for the Queen Street lands. They should have developed the Clyde Street lots years ago.

[halifaxboyns]

Yeah the bay is not doing well no matter what - but certainly if HRM's economy grew to support such a thing; maybe Holt Renfrew? Would certainly be interesting and give Mills Brother's a run for their money!

I'd love to see what they come up with for the parking lots - certainly anything is better than now.

If the hotel market is as soft as people keeps saying - then perhaps instead of a hotel; maybe just lots of nice condos.

[Keith P.]

Yeah the bay is not doing well no matter what - but certainly if HRM's economy grew to support such a thing; maybe Holt Renfrew? Would certainly be interesting and give Mills Brother's a run for their money!


Mickey MacDonald bought Mills a few years ago, changed management, and tried to make it into a Holt Renfrew-like experience. He then discovered there was no such market in Halifax, while simultaneously alienating the south end matrons who used to be his clientele, since their type of clothes were no longer available there. It is not doing so well at the moment as a result.

[halifaxboyns]

Mickey MacDonald bought Mills a few years ago, changed management, and tried to make it into a Holt Renfrew-like experience. He then discovered there was no such market in Halifax, while simultaneously alienating the south end matrons who used to be his clientele, since their type of clothes were no longer available there. It is not doing so well at the moment as a result.

That's a shame - since their storefront is quite nice. I think it really adds to the Spring Garden Road experience.

I wonder if it might pick up if more condos went in the block where Trillium is going?

[someone123]

The condos do help to provide a market for local retail but I would guess that when you're talking about a specific specialty store the effect is much smaller. Mills might be in a better position since they can tailor their merchandise more than most.

I would really just like downtown retail to fill out a bit more with different types of stores, including a couple of larger chains. There are no household items downtown, there's no electronics, no major bookstore like Chapters even. A person living downtown in a condo still has to drive out to Bayers Lake or the Halifax Shopping Centre for most things.

It would be even better if the downtown could attract something unique to the region, like an urban format IKEA (they exist, but that one's a bit of a stretch).

Part of the issue is that there just aren't any sites for these sorts of stores to move into. The city wants to use SGR and Queen for the library and possibly keep the old library site, the Roy Building is sitting empty in limbo, and so on. One big potential spot would be the Dairy Queen building and adjacent lot at Spring Garden Road and South Park; that is another extremely good corner for retail.

[halifaxboyns]

Part of the issue is that there just aren't any sites for these sorts of stores to move into. The city wants to use SGR and Queen for the library and possibly keep the old library site, the Roy Building is sitting empty in limbo, and so on. One big potential spot would be the Dairy Queen building and adjacent lot at Spring Garden Road and South Park; that is another extremely good corner for retail.

I don't really think big stores like that should be in a main downtown location like SGR, but then I think to Vancouver and can see the case to allow them. I stayed at the Westin Grand a couple months ago and about a block up was an IGA market garden and above it a homesense (above that was condos).

The only places I could think of that a big store like that might fit would be into Spring Garden Place and then next to City Centre Atlantic (where the CIBC is and then those 3 older buildings on the other side). You could take take down the CIBC and move it inside City Centre and then put a big box retail in that space and above. Same with the other two buildings. The only other spots that might work would be the parking lots - since they could be redeveloped - but being off SGR I don't know how well that would work.

The Sam the record man space on Barrington might have been a good spot for something; but I don't know if it would be enough space.

I still think that perhaps Gottingen Street and Arigcola might be really great spots to redevelop with these sorts of stores on the bottom and then some condos above.

[beyeas]

I never even thought of the Bakery. Anyone live in that area? Would the residents around be opposed to a Tower on that site? Nearest one is Atlantica Hotel right?

I live in that area (just south of Jubilee). I would LOVE TO see a tower development along Quinpool. Quinpool certainly has a ton of potential, and adding more residents to the area would only further expand the range of services etc that would be viable along Quinpool. The down-side is traffic, but that is true independent of any new development. Maybe if a new development incorporated a significant amount of underground parking that would help, because then it could be viable to get rid of on-street parking and have it be a full 4 lanes the whole way (or maybe even have a reversing lane so that it was 3and1 depending on the dominate traffic direction being out or inbound.

[worldlyhaligonian]

I want to see a tower on the lot next to the Atlantica and the space between the Atlantica and as far down as Edward Jones redeveloped into a tower at about half the height of the Atlantica... it would be a perfect step down on either side of the hotel.

[halifaxboyns]

I want to see a tower on the lot next to the Atlantica and the space between the Atlantica and as far down as Edward Jones redeveloped into a tower at about half the height of the Atlantica... it would be a perfect step down on either side of the hotel.

The Atlantica...I remember that? Isn't that the former Holiday Inn at the Willow Tree Corner?

As sad as this might sound - i'd like to see a couple Willow Trees go back up on that corner in honor of it's nickname :)

[halifaxboyns]

I live in that area (just south of Jubilee). I would LOVE TO see a tower development along Quinpool. Quinpool certainly has a ton of potential, and adding more residents to the area would only further expand the range of services etc that would be viable along Quinpool. The down-side is traffic, but that is true independent of any new development. Maybe if a new development incorporated a significant amount of underground parking that would help, because then it could be viable to get rid of on-street parking and have it be a full 4 lanes the whole way (or maybe even have a reversing lane so that it was 3and1 depending on the dominate traffic direction being out or inbound.

Underground parking always helps - it takes the cars from being visible. I've talked about a redevelopment concept for Gottingen street and most of it hinges on the on street parking being removed and a common parking garage being constructed on the vacant lot between the church and old building on Cunard Street (to replace all the on street parking and provide a little more).

One option to make quinpool work a bit better would be with a redevelopment of the Quinpool Centre Mall. They could dig up the parking lot in stages and build a couple levels of underground parking, with their at grade lot - then you remove the on street.

The only catch will be how to deal with on street parking around the street - it may have to go permit only (in the event people don't want to pay for it).

[halifaxboyns]

Is there anywhere along Windsor (other than the forum lands and to DND property) that might be a good spot to develop?

What about Dartmouth? I'd certainly like to see the golf course viewplane removed and downtown Dartmouth start sprowting towers for sure (especially if you wanted to let them go way higher than the Ramparts in Halifax).

[Jonovision]

I don't think I would want anything that would be too tall in downtown Dartmouth. It would look too out of place. Something like Mississauga. I'm happy with the Kings Wharf tower at its height. I think anything bigger then that in the area would look silly and out of place. Not too say I don't want more smaller towers in the area. More buildings between 10 and 20 storeys would fit nicely.

[fenwick16]

I don't think I would want anything that would be too tall in downtown Dartmouth. It would look too out of place. Something like Mississauga. I'm happy with the Kings Wharf tower at its height. I think anything bigger then that in the area would look silly and out of place. Not too say I don't want more smaller towers in the area. More buildings between 10 and 20 storeys would fit nicely.

What would you think if someone wanted to build a very well designed observation tower in Dartmouth? (since it wasn't permitted in Halifax - because of the ramparts by-law). Something about 600 feet tall - this would provide a great panoramic view of the whole HRM (on a clear day). The city would look great at night. (I wonder if this would exceed the ramparts height in Halifax - is this By-Law valid in Dartmouth?)

[halifaxboyns]

What would you think if someone wanted to build a very well designed observation tower in Dartmouth? (since it wasn't permitted in Halifax - because of the ramparts by-law). Something about 600 feet tall - this would provide a great panoramic view of the whole HRM (on a clear day). The city would look great at night. (I wonder if this would exceed the ramparts height in Halifax - is this By-Law valid in Dartmouth?)

I don't believe the rampart heights rules were ever applied in Dartmouth because the downtown Dartmouth Bylaw is the one that was originally passed by the City of Dartmouth - other than a few amendments, it still stands.

I'll ask a friend who works in the Dartmouth Development Office and get confirmation on that - but I think that would be a great idea for something along the waterfront - if encorporated into a boardwalk.

As to limiting building heights to those of that new development at the slips (sorry I can't think of it) for this side might be okay. The city probably hasn't reach a point where buildings should go that much higher. But I wouldn't want to limit them should there be a need to go higher.

[Jstaleness]

I wasn't thinking an observation tower at first but now I like the idea. Does anyone know the deal with the property across from Metropolitan Place and that adult playground on Wyse Rd? It used to have an old school or something on it up until a few years ago. It now has a parking lot. I think something would fit nice in there between Metropolitan Place and Queens Square down the street.

[halifaxboyns]

With the recent developments on the Salter block - I wanted to float the idea of talking about the block that is south of the Twisted Sisters location. It contains two Federal Government Buildings (from birds eye on Bing, they appear to be 4 stories for one and 10 stories for the other).

I had a look at the site on HRM GIS and there is a view plane that cuts the corner by Salter, but otherwise the site is free and clear of any other restrictions other than the rampart height.

Certainly the parking lots on the site are quite a waste of what could be valuable downtown land - that has some good height potential. This might be an excellent location for either a combo office tower/high class hotel (Fairmont maybe?) and then with some sort of observation deck on top? I know it had been talked about before - why not encorporate it here?

I suggest Fairmont because of the really nice hotel they built in Vancouver - the Pacific Rim. If the hotel market is saturated - could still be office only or even residential with ground floor commercial (Halifax dt could use some more density). The site would be big enough for probably two towers, maybe even three. Thoughts?

Also the Marriott site might also be good for re-development to something taller?

[halifaxboyns]

I was looking at some aerial photos of Halifax the other day and thinking back to the other thread about where could Halterm go - it got me thinking of what you could do with the Halterm land, as well as the grain terminals?

That's a pretty huge piece of land in a prime spot. It got me thinking about Expo 86 and what Vancouver did with their shoreline for Expo - might be an interesting spot for something like that down the road?

Also - with all the interest around St. George's Church site on Gottingen street - what about the Oland Brewery? Any thoughts?

[Keith P.]

Since this is pure fantasy and you're turfing running, viable businesses off their property, I would luike to see the Irving station and adjacent O'Regan's car dealership on Robie redeveloped.

[halifaxboyns]

Since this is pure fantasy and you're turfing running, viable businesses off their property, I would luike to see the Irving station and adjacent O'Regan's car dealership on Robie redeveloped.

I was thinking about that as well - that area already has prescident for large towers and considering the size of the parcel you could probably do 3 or 4 of them.

Now if only I could win one of those big american lotteries! :)

[halifaxboyns]

I was thinking about this thread and some of the recent waterfront developments going on in Halifax (like King's Wharf). So I wanted to show a couple recent (and a few older) developments in Calgary that I think might be something to consider in terms of design for HRM. Of course, many of these buildings are much taller than then Fenwick, so consider these on a more 'hrm-ish' scale. :) These are mainly residential towers, that could be along the waterfront or throughout the core.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3276/4559232207_a645ea05e7_b.jpg
This is our development called 'waterfront', a second tower soon to be started.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3164/4559224607_0b78c21acf_b.jpg
Some of the low rise development along the Bow River Pathway in Eau Claire (typically going for 900k and up).
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3641/4559852646_8b4a58289e_b.jpg
More Eau Claire, low and high rise.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3519/4559212673_068aeb1594_b.jpg
Another Eau Claire tower - a little fuzzy cause of the grey sky.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3164/4559840932_fd2a8165a6_b.jpg
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3067/4559202863_cceface37a_b.jpg
This one isn't in Eau Claire - it's just off 5th Avenue SW in the Core. But it's one of my favorite pair of towers.

I think these are some pretty interesting architecture that could fit into the HRM context - it's what I think would work in many different spots. These are ment to inspire design changes in HRM - but not to be copies.

Thoughts?

[halifaxboyns]

I also wanted to post some examples of office tower styles, to see what people think about a similar style for HRM:

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4002/4559867482_c837af3cbf_b.jpg
This is Jamieson Place. Just completed.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3185/4559215287_ddf43a1ac3.jpg
Centenial Place 1 and Centenial Place 2 (Tower 1 was done by WZMH Architects - who have done some stuff in HRM I believe??)

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3437/4559200461_dce2303e12_b.jpg
The Calgary Courts building - why be short?

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3031/4559199169_e7c92c5590_b.jpg
The Hyatt Hotel - the style was based on heritage buildings encorporated at the base from Stephen Avenue.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3357/4559826512_ae4d719506.jpg
The Bow - Encana's soon to be home. 58 stories, just completing the outer shell of the 40th floor now.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3428/4559235413_f25ea9cc8b_b.jpg
The Sheraton Suites Eau Claire - 2nd most expensive hotel in Calgary. I see this style as being something that might work in the Spring Garden Area, or maybe near the waterfront for a boutique hotel.

So these are some designs, which might work on the HRM side in the taller areas or maybe in Dartmouth if the Brightwood viewplane were removed.

[someone123]

Calgary has some nice office towers but the designs for most others seem kind of brutal, below the level of design of the major Halifax proposals (like United Gulf, International Place, King's Wharf, or Salter) and way below what is built in Vancouver.

I really like some of the new Olympic Village buildings here, and they are totally on a scale that would be ideal for Halifax. I like the colourful building materials and the building layout:

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4036/4451065421_760fd9736e_o.jpg
Source (http://www.flickr.com/photos/susangittins/4290693519/sizes/l/)

Another part of the development:

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4070/4323824690_526b54dac2_b.jpg
Source (http://www.flickr.com/photos/susangittins/4323824690/sizes/l/)

An infill building in another part of Vancouver, at Broadway and Cambie - imagine something like this at Spring Garden and Queen:
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4003/4475431476_4e62834e9d_b.jpg
Source (http://www.flickr.com/photos/58708751@N00/4475431476/sizes/l/)

[fenwick16]

I also wanted to post some examples of office tower styles, to see what people think about a similar style for HRM:

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4002/4559867482_c837af3cbf_b.jpg
This is Jamieson Place. Just completed.

Centenial Place 1 and Centenial Place 2 (Tower 1 was done by WZMH Architects - who have done some stuff in HRM I believe??)

I like these two - Jamieson Place looks very much like 1801 Hollis in Halifax (which I think is a very nice office tower)

The Calgary Courts building - why be short?

The Hyatt Hotel - the style was based on heritage buildings encorporated at the base from Stephen Avenue.

These two look too dark to me (I think it is the cement and green glass)

The Bow - Encana's soon to be home. 58 stories, just completing the outer shell of the 40th floor now.

The Bow would look great in any major city in the world. In my opinion, this is a 5 star building.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3428/4559235413_f25ea9cc8b_b.jpg
The Sheraton Suites Eau Claire - 2nd most expensive hotel in Calgary. I see this style as being something that might work in the Spring Garden Area, or maybe near the waterfront for a boutique hotel.

So these are some designs, which might work on the HRM side in the taller areas or maybe in Dartmouth if the Brightwood viewplane were removed.

Is it just me? All of the ones with green/brick/cement are very unappealing to me. Whereas all of the ones with the blue tinted glass look good.

There is something exciting about living in a prosperous growing city like Calgary (or in my case Toronto). I think that Haligonians (including Dartmouth) are starting to experience this. I hope that it will continue so that people will stop moving away.

[fenwick16]

Calgary has some nice office towers but the designs for most others seem kind of brutal, below the level of design of the major Halifax proposals (like United Gulf, International Place, King's Wharf, or Salter) and way below what is built in Vancouver.

I really like some of the new Olympic Village buildings here, and they are totally on a scale that would be ideal for Halifax. I like the colourful building materials and the building layout:

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4036/4451065421_760fd9736e_o.jpg
Source (http://www.flickr.com/photos/susangittins/4290693519/sizes/l/)


I like this one the best. I wonder if the Atlantic Square on Spring Garden will look a bit like this (it isn't as elaborate as the Vancouver building above).

[someone123]

You mean the City Centre Atlantic addition? That one does look similar, and is a similar size, although the base would still be the original brown brick of the existing mall.

The McCully Worklofts on Agricola would have been another sharp looking project on this scale but I believe that project is either on hold or cancelled (though their website is still up):

http://mccullyworklofts.ca/images/rend_ex1.jpg
Source - mccullyworklofts.ca (mccullyworklofts.ca)

The design is simpler and more conservative than most quality Vancouver buildings but it fits in well with the aesthetics of Halifax's North End. I wish there were more completed projects in this style around the city.

[fenwick16]

You mean the City Centre Atlantic addition? That one does look similar, and is a similar size, although the base would still be the original brown brick of the existing mall.

The McCully Worklofts on Agricola would have been another sharp looking project on this scale but I believe that project is either on hold or cancelled (though their website is still up):

The design is simpler and more conservative than most quality Vancouver buildings but it fits in well with the aesthetics of Halifax's North End.

Yes, the City Centre Atlantic (although I prefer the orange in the Vancouver building versus the green in the City Atlantic, since the orange stands out more). I also like the McCully Worklofts.

[fenwick16]

I was thinking about this thread and some of the recent waterfront developments going on in Halifax (like King's Wharf). So I wanted to show a couple recent (and a few older) developments in Calgary that I think might be something to consider in terms of design for HRM. Of course, many of these buildings are much taller than then Fenwick, so consider these on a more 'hrm-ish' scale. :) These are mainly residential towers, that could be along the waterfront or throughout the core.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3276/4559232207_a645ea05e7_b.jpg


This looks a little bit like the taller building in the Pine Street proposal in Dartmouth (http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=178588&page=2). Dartmouth might become the high rise location in the HRM.


More Eau Claire, low and high rise.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3519/4559212673_068aeb1594_b.jpg
Another Eau Claire tower - a little fuzzy cause of the grey sky.

This style looks good.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3164/4559840932_fd2a8165a6_b.jpg

I think this one would be best in the suburbs.


http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3067/4559202863_cceface37a_b.jpg
This one isn't in Eau Claire - it's just off 5th Avenue SW in the Core. But it's one of my favorite pair of towers.

I think these are some pretty interesting architecture that could fit into the HRM context - it's what I think would work in many different spots. These are ment to inspire design changes in HRM - but not to be copies.

Thoughts?


The bottom pair looks great. Is the brown coloured material brick or composite panel?

[beyeas]

I was thinking about this thread and some of the recent waterfront developments going on in Halifax (like King's Wharf). So I wanted to show a couple recent (and a few older) developments in Calgary that I think might be something to consider in terms of design for HRM. Of course, many of these buildings are much taller than then Fenwick, so consider these on a more 'hrm-ish' scale. :) These are mainly residential towers, that could be along the waterfront or throughout the core.


http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3641/4559852646_8b4a58289e_b.jpg
More Eau Claire, low and high rise.


Actually the tall one in the back looks remarkably like the planned reno/redo of Fenwick (most notably the sloping roofline obviously).

[beyeas]

I like this one the best. I wonder if the Atlantic Square on Spring Garden will look a bit like this (it isn't as elaborate as the Vancouver building above).

I agree... this is a sharp looking building, and commands attention for something this scale. I think this would look great in Halifax.

[halifaxboyns]

Actually the tall one in the back looks remarkably like the planned reno/redo of Fenwick (most notably the sloping roofline obviously).

Those condos (last check of MLS) were going for a million and up. I think a building like that would be fantastic on the waterfront , but not right against a boardwalk - I'd say against a major street further back and then the smaller closer to the water. The views would be amazing. Probably something that could work even on an inner block up from the water, say Dartmouth side?

[halifaxboyns]

This looks a little bit like the taller building in the Pine Street proposal in Dartmouth (http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=178588&page=2). Dartmouth might become the high rise location in the HRM.
This style looks good.
I think this one would be best in the suburbs.
The bottom pair looks great. Is the brown coloured material brick or composite panel?

I believe its brick.

[halifaxboyns]

Rather than post 4 more different posts to respond to question (you think I would've figured this out earlier) - I try to respond to all the different comments in one (despite already posting twice in a row, DOH!).

I loved the olympic village concept - that to me, would be something I'd like to see on the parcel behind King's Wharf as the next stage of redevelopment of that area. I agree with the orange, I like to see stand out colours, where as green doesn't seem to do that for City Centre. Also, taking a small queue from the hypothetical thread of what if Halterm moved - if all the dockyard lands were ever re-developed, since the viewplanes limit your height on those lands - this might be workable and fit into the viewplanes.

As to the work lofts on Agricola, I think that's an amazing design and it would be a shame if it didn't go forward. I think Agricola has so much potential, perhaps more so than Gottingen Street. i've posed in this thread that I thought Gottingen could regain its commercial status with big box retain below higher rise buildings - but the more that I think about it; I'm starting to lean more to Agricola because of the potential for the blocks behind it (the car lot, the residential block between the car lot and Robie) and just the fact that some really interesting businesses have already established.

I still think Gottingen can redevelop with some multi and commercial, but with Agricola, I think it seems to be more workable.
I must say though - that my thought of posting photos really spurred a lot more thought and discussion than I had originally expected. That's great!

[halifaxboyns]

I also wanted to see what people thought of my original comment about Agricola being a better street to bring back some major commercial development, than Gottingen Street. I'm thinking this because of the fact the block pattern and distribution may be easier for it.

So I've come up with some overlays in the area of Agricola and Robie Street to give some ideas of where redevelopment could occur with comments about building height. Commercial will typically front to major roads, except as I've noted.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3458/4561921529_7412100438_o.jpg
Robie Street - existing GM dealership and Irving - I'm proposing the street (which appears to still be open) remain open and to become a commercial promenade (did I spell that right) - there would mainly be cafe's and restaurants fronting this street (or it could really be a pedestrian only street?).
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4019/4562551162_52fac589d8_o.jpg
Davison/West/Charles and John Street Blocks with commercial fronting to Agricola.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3274/4562551196_78e2e4362c_o.jpg
More commercial to Agricola with multi-residential
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3088/4561921619_c8bc5fa916_o.jpg
Commercial/Residential around the existing Fire station.
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4006/4562551244_30789efea2_o.jpg
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3190/4562551264_c638fae559_o.jpg
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3131/4561921709_b3cffc9e98_o.jpg

Please excuse the poor quality of the drawings - unfortunately I only have paint to use at home (abobe at work). When the residential is above commercial, I'm suggesting podium style residential high rise buildings. I'm assuming underground parking for all these sites, as most of them would probably be able to accommodate it. By interested to hear some comments.

[Keith P.]

Thought of another site -- the Bens bakery on Pepperell which stretches over to Quinpool. I've never been inside the bakery but I expect that it might make a good site for lofts.

[halifaxboyns]

Since this is pure fantasy and you're turfing running, viable businesses off their property, I would luike to see the Irving station and adjacent O'Regan's car dealership on Robie redeveloped.

I'm not saying they shouldn't keep running - but I'm thinking bigger picture; 20-30 years down the road. Besides, if the city really gets into a 'lets densify the inner city mode' these businesses may see their land value jump quite a bit - which may make the idea of moving to somewhere else more interesting.

When you mentioned the irving and car lot on Robie - that's an example of an area that could be done as a comprehensive development plan for 30 years down the road - i'm sure that car dealership would move if they got the right price for their land! I saw a car dealership open up here in Calgary; it was gone 2 years later since they got a great offer on the land and now a condo building is going up! :)

[worldlyhaligonian]

I think that car dealership should be redeveloped ASAP... a tower block there with a park in the middle would be very nice!

[halifaxboyns]

I think that car dealership should be redeveloped ASAP... a tower block there with a park in the middle would be very nice!

I think I would not add a park - since you are so close to the commons. But if google maps is correct that there is a street through the middle of the car lot - what I'd do is maybe redevelop the whole block (irving included) and put a street down the middle; but have it pedestrian and emergency access only.
That way you could have commercial at grade and then have a number of restaurants and cafes with patios out into the space and then people could walk on the street or bike.

[fenwick16]

I think that the HRM could likely grow to 500,000 people with neither another harbour crossing or a North West Arm crossing (simply by putting more people on the Halifax peninsula, Clayton Park and Dartmouth). However, in order for the HRM to grow beyond 500,000 I think additional crossings will be required.

Since Dalhousie University is forecasting growth and Downtown Halifax may grow (if policies against growth are overcome) then it seems that Halifax should encourage growth in the southern mainland by having a couple North West Arm crossings. This would overcome the bottleneck transiting the peninsula to the west. Since bridges might interfere with sailing ships in the North West Arm, have tunnels under the North West Arm ever been considered? These would be relatively short (probably only 1/3 to 1/4 the length) compared to ones under the Halifax Harbour.

If Halifax is to grow into a major city in the future then either growth will have to be focused more in northern Halifax/northern Dartmouth where access is the cheapest or, in my opinion, focus growth in the southern mainland Halifax and have tunnels/bridges across the North West Arm. Since a wastewater treatment plant was built in Herring Cove, it makes me wonder if this area (north of Herring Cove) will be the focus of future growth.

[JustinMacD]

http://i48.tinypic.com/102nmu9.jpg

[halifaxboyns]

http://i48.tinypic.com/102nmu9.jpg

Alas - most of this site is covered in a viewplane. There is a narrow diagonal strip that isn't covered though - in which case you could 'pull a maritime centre' and do something pretty funky and tall.

I'd say a shape similar to one of the towers at the Sheraton Wall Centre in Vancouver, sort of oval shaped like a sail.

[fenwick16]

Isn't this covered by the HRM by Design. I think it takes precedence over the viewplanes (unless an amendment is made). The maximum appears to be 28m (post bonus height) or 22m pre-bonus height (nice of them to allow the extra 6m).

http://img517.imageshack.us/img517/6831/prebonusheight.jpg

http://img27.imageshack.us/img27/9182/postbonusmaimum.jpg

[halifaxboyns]

Isn't this covered by the HRM by Design. I think it takes precedence over the viewplanes (unless an amendment is made). The maximum appears to be 28m (post bonus height) or 22m pre-bonus height (nice of them to allow the extra 6m).

http://img27.imageshack.us/img27/9182/postbonusmaimum.jpg

I do believe you are correct on the heights - but there is a portion of the site that doesn't have the viewplane on it. So the more stringent rule often applies; which would probably be HbD.

they could always amend the height - make an application like the y did?

[fenwick16]

I do believe you are correct on the heights - but there is a portion of the site that doesn't have the viewplane on it. So the more stringent rule often applies; which would probably be HbD.

they could always amend the height - make an application like the y did?

If amendments are made then it gives people a reason to fight a development. For example - now the residents of Heritage Way are using HRM by Design to fight the City Centre Atlantic development even though most of them signed agreements stating that they wouldn't fight that development. The problem is that HRM by Design was too conservative in locations where it didn't have to be conservative (areas that already had highrise development). These policies are hurting the city since it drives development away from the city.

Personally, I like cities so I tend to be in favour of tall buildings but maybe that isn't what most people in the Halifax area want. Maybe the purpose of HRM by Design is to ease more highrise developments in gradually.

[JustinMacD]

http://i46.tinypic.com/119w36x.jpg

I've always thought that the corners of South Park and South Street have always been a great potential spot for some condos. The big red box on the hospital side of the street is a rats nest and looks like it's going to fall down.. and the house across the street is currently unoccupied.

That's prime real estate right there. The James looks nice and then you have more nicer condos down towards Wellington... This section of South Park needs a facelift.

[JustinMacD]

I'd also like to see the lowrise apartment building between The James and the Workers Compensation Board building either torn down or renovated. It's an eye sore and with the renovation of Fenwick the building is going to look out of place.

[halifaxboyns]

I'd also like to see the lowrise apartment building between The James and the Workers Compensation Board building either torn down or renovated. It's an eye sore and with the renovation of Fenwick the building is going to look out of place.

Looks like they were one step ahead of you on two fronts. Going back to the discussion point about the 'library' corner - I've taken a screen shot from HRM's GIS tool to illustrate just how confined a building footprint would be to avoid the viewplanes. However, it's a big parcel - so it could happen as the existing tower just narrowly avoids hitting one.
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1301/4705719178_c63f3269ca_b.jpg

This maybe a site where the design of the building should be much like the Sheraton Wall Centre in Vancouver - one of the towers looks like a sail. For those who haven't seen it; I'm posting this picture (it's one of my favorite buildings).
http://www.alexramon.com/images/photos/20070531081450_img_8335-02.jpg

As to the site you are referring too on South Park - I've also taken a screen shot. You will note that I asked the program to identify the corner parcels addressed as 5710 and 5706 South Street - which are two seperate parcels. The whole cross hatched area is a height precinct limitation - so no matter what the zoning may allow (which for that corner parcel is R-3; so the angle controls would define building height/massing by the angles) - the maximum height for that entire area is 35 feet.
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4054/4705719112_ff7684585b_b.jpg

Shame too - I think that area has potential.

[halifaxboyns]

One area that I think has been talked about a few times (especially by me and I believe Fenwick hit on it as well), is the Agricola street area.

I've taken this screen shot from the HRM GIS to give you an idea of the area I'm talking about. Unfortunately some of the best parcels and areas where height could occur, have those height precincts on them. The max height in the cross hatched area is 50' - which would need some changing, but I think this area would be prime for growth.

Some nice big tall towers on the C-2 parcel's on Robie, some 4 storey stacked town houses and maybe 5 or 6 storey apartments on the R-2 lands in the John/Davison Block, mixed use buildings fronting Agricola on both sides with apartments above (say 10 to 15 stories). I'd say on the bigger Agricola street blocks near the top of the map, some at grade parking behind the retail but underground parking for residential. Maybe a small park? Hell I'd even say a boutique hotel or something like a holiday inn on the block too.

My dream would be to see a mixed use building on one of the larger Agricola blocks near the top of the map that would have a grocerry store in it - something like a Whole Foods (http://seattlebonvivant.typepad.com/seattle_bon_vivant/images/whole_foods.jpg) in the states, where the store is on 2 levels with a shopping cart escolator - saw it on top chef, really cool! That way it wouldn't take up a big foot print - it could be on two levels instead of one. Maybe some stores like Future Shop or Best Buy? A winners or even (dare I say it - the new style Urban Walmart?). *looks shocked that I said that* :cool:
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1302/4705733612_db264e99cc_b.jpg

[halifaxboyns]

After all the work that has been done on Plan It Calgary (the City's transportation and Municipal Development Plan); it got me thinking about HRM's Regional Plan, which is set to expire around 2026/2027. While that may be 16 years away, when you think about the fact it will probably take 4 to 5 years of study, development of policy and consultation plus probably a year to implement - that takes us down to 10 years time. So really; not that much time at all.

When I was doing my geography degree, I don't remember much fan fare about the regional plan - it seemed terribly uninspiring to people until HRM got a ministerial order to limit subdivision's in the rural areas (because developers were trying to get as many lots created as possible before the plan came into effect - boy were they pissed when the limitations hit. I remember one developer (who will remain nameless) calling HRM staff totalitarians and hitler-esque). I helped work on Plan It as a member of COC staff and that was the total opposite.

It got me thinking about how the next regional plan should consider things. It seems to me we all agree that Downtown Dartmouth should have time to grow up - so once development starts filling up Halifax DT, Dartmouth seems the next logical step. When I look at the opportunity sites that the Regional Plan shows, I'm surprised how many places they haven't identified (like Agricola Street/Robie with the car dealership or Quinpool as a mixed use corridor or upzoning around bus stations in Dartmouth).

This makes me think about how I'd like to see the regional plan go for the next time around; how the consultation should be bigger, bolder and more out there. Why not take a queue from Calgary? We may not always get things right; but the public awareness campaign was quite good (I must compliment Plan It's Manager Pat Gordon - she was so fun!).

One thing I would suggest is a catchy title - Plan HRM or VisionHRM or something. Next; get out there and get the people interested. One thing Plan It had which was amazing was the Plan It summit. The first part was the 'build it' component; where volunteers from community associations, developers, industry, students etc. were divided up into groups and sat at huge 10 feet by feet aerial shots of parts of Calgary. It was basically a design charette; where each group was told the projected growth (or in my group's case, decline) of population, jobs etc. With wooden pieces, you indicated where everything went - how roads and transportation could be upgraded. We even added more parks. That took place over 2 mornings. In the afternoon was the summit, with keynote speakers and then break out sessions. One of the keynote speakers was Ken Greenberg (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_el3-9WN7Ss) (from the Toronto Waterfront video posted in the Bedford Plan string). We also had Jeff Kenworthy (http://humanities.curtin.edu.au/about/staff/index.cfm/j.kenworthy) from Austrailia - both were great speakers. I'd like to see something like this for HRM; but maybe include as well some other speakers.

One of the other things HRM should do is something like these ad's I've posted - to get people to think about the plan; when it's going. But what I want people to think about is how the region should grow especially if we're going to try to downplay traffic, densify and cut down on sprawl. The current plan only accepts 25% of development in the inner city; I suspect as the city grows; that will naturally go up to as much as 40% with infill development in neighbourhoods like Fairview/Clayton Park.

I want to get people thinking about this; because 10 years goes by quickly and hopefully I'll be working in HRM when the plan is being developed. So i'd like some ideas to swipe...I mean borrow. :)

Here are some photos from Plan It and the Ad's, but I'd be interested to see how people think about this and what opportunities they see for infill, sensative development plus also how would/should greenfield development be (higher density, minimum density numbers?).

<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/GJjQY840G5Q&amp;hl=en_US&amp;fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/GJjQY840G5Q&amp;hl=en_US&amp;fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>

I couldn't embed this one; but here is one on Garrison Woods (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0HDZmAi8Ghk) done by my coworker Wilf. Another about Plan It Calgary (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xrdCEbHJLEE).

[fenwick16]

Nice ad. That is the sort of thing that other municipalities should follow (I don't remember ever seeing an ad in the city of Toronto or suburbs encouraging residents to become involved in city planning).

[FuzzyWuz]

There's a block or so of Wyse Rd. starting just north of North st. down to Church that seems very ripe for a nice bit of development. An office tower would add nicely to the very small office presence there but there could also be a condo or two. I wonder who owns it and if there are any plans for it?

[halifaxboyns]

I've always believed that in order to dilute the traffic generation pattern so that not all traffic was heading to the Peninsula at one time - the office distribution needed to change and focus around major transportation centres (in a logical progression).

So with the new Bridge Terminal - I thought that some of those strip malls should be dozed and rebuilt into pedestrian oriented buildings (within 3m to the property line, with nice landscaping against the street) and a few office towers above in the 4 to 6 storey range. Some of the adjacent sites could then become higher density residential in the 10 to 15 storey range against the major roads.

With Highfield; I saw the buildings getting up into the 10 to 15 storey range for residential and then either through as of right zoning rules (or via development agreement policy) you'd have campus office style developments going into Burnside (or at least a portion of it) up to 5 stories and then the rest being more focused on industrial uses. Bayers Lake could be the same.

[halifaxboyns]

There's a block or so of Wyse Rd. starting just north of North st. down to Church that seems very ripe for a nice bit of development. An office tower would add nicely to the very small office presence there but there could also be a condo or two. I wonder who owns it and if there are any plans for it?

Do you mean Windmill Road? That could work - if the viewplane rules were changed. I think the limit with the viewplanes would be about 5 stories at max; although if I read the rules for the viewplanes in Dartmouth correctly - unlike Halifax you can protrude through them provided you go through the development agreement process. Of course, this means you'd have to do a public hearing.

[Dmajackson]

Do you mean Windmill Road? That could work - if the viewplane rules were changed. I think the limit with the viewplanes would be about 5 stories at max; although if I read the rules for the viewplanes in Dartmouth correctly - unlike Halifax you can protrude through them provided you go through the development agreement process. Of course, this means you'd have to do a public hearing.

Actually I think you both mean Alderney Drive ... :haha:

[worldlyhaligonian]

Hey guys, I have a great location.

Across from The Oxford Theatre on Quinpool from Oxford as far down as the CIBC and put in a trillium style development, maybe 16 stories.

Those store fronts have always been kind of grimey... the spartan could open up inside the new building and it would look great with a similar retro interior and the original sinage. A new space might also benefit the clay cafe.

[JustinMacD]

Hey guys, I have a great location.

Across from The Oxford Theatre on Quinpool from Oxford as far down as the CIBC and put in a trillium style development, maybe 16 stories.

Those store fronts have always been kind of grimey... the spartan could open up inside the new building and it would look great with a similar retro interior and the original sinage. A new space might also benefit the clay cafe.

Where Spartan Restaurant is?

I like that idea. That whole area around the Oxford Theatre is nice. There are a few nice new builds a block down.

Quinpool needs some more high density buildings. Too many smaller apartments for such a busy area.

[worldlyhaligonian]

Where Spartan Restaurant is?

I like that idea. That whole area around the Oxford Theatre is nice. There are a few nice new builds a block down.

Quinpool needs some more high density buildings. Too many smaller apartments for such a busy area.

Yeah, all of the storefronts from that corner to CIBC... put the car entry/exit the whole length behind over to Kline st. (give some spots to CIBC, who's quinpool parking lot is the worst parking lot I have ever seen) That area needs more density.

[beyeas]

Hey guys, I have a great location.

Across from The Oxford Theatre on Quinpool from Oxford as far down as the CIBC and put in a trillium style development, maybe 16 stories.

Those store fronts have always been kind of grimey... the spartan could open up inside the new building and it would look great with a similar retro interior and the original sinage. A new space might also benefit the clay cafe.

I would love to see that whole corridor built up with higher density and at grade retail. It could really be a pretty amazing urban neighbourhood if it is developed more (and correctly).

[JustinMacD]

One thing that I think they should do is maybe think about putting a parking garage or something similar where that Bens "public art wall" is located. Parking around that area is terrible as it is.. with more available parking, you can get the cars off the main street and take away a lot of the hassle. Makes it easier for the buses and frees up two more lanes of traffic to reduce congestion.

Quinpool is a mess and needs to be fixed up.

[halifaxboyns]

One thing that I think they should do is maybe think about putting a parking garage or something similar where that Bens "public art wall" is located. Parking around that area is terrible as it is.. with more available parking, you can get the cars off the main street and take away a lot of the hassle. Makes it easier for the buses and frees up two more lanes of traffic to reduce congestion.

Quinpool is a mess and needs to be fixed up.

There used to be provisions for no parking on Quinpool many years ago - which is why the existing parking situation is the way it is.

Most cities do have an ability to require parking through a common lot - often cash in lieu of parking. Unfortunately if the calculation isn't updated regularly or a set calcuation is put into the Bylaw; if it's not updated regularly - you end up only getting a portion of money that would be useful.

When I had suggested the upgrading of Gottingen Street into a mixed use corridor (as well as Agricola); I had suggested at least one main parking garage for both sites, if not two. They could be potential cash cows for HRM if they created a parking authority - Calgary's Parking authority brings in a lot of money to the city.

But I do agree with you that the whole area could be improved.
I've been taking all these ideas and collecting them, working on some rough maps as ideas to keep should I ever get back to HRM. I'm getting forgetful in my old age - but these are projects that could inspire some great conversations.

[halifaxboyns]

I posted this video in the light rail discussion thread, but I'm posting it here not for it's suggestion of LRT improving things - but for the urban design shown in the video.

If you watch it from 0:58 to the end and look at the design of some of the highrise buildings in the video - I think it gives a rather interesting idea of building form for places like Quinpool, Agricola or even Gottingen Street.
There is a 14 storey building shown in the portion about 'Independence' that is a combination of brick work for the bottom 4 stories and then steel and glass for the remaining. There is another good one at the 2:05 mark at the bottom right corner, similar design.

This combination of old style buildings (which I believe exist now) and then more modern above really interests me and I think would look great for those areas. If you put pre-set design criteria to make them look old, but new (if you get what I mean); it can be pretty interesting.

Here is the video:
<object width="640" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/mkR0LO1kG6g&amp;hl=en_US&amp;fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/mkR0LO1kG6g&amp;hl=en_US&amp;fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="640" height="385"></embed></object>

[Keith P.]

Now that the RCMP will be relocating to a massive new building in Burnside (why is the old building already obsolete, I wonder; it is not that old), the existing RCMP bunker on the corner of Bayers and Oxford should be opened up for development proposals.

[someone123]

It's easy to imagine a highrise building on the Ben's site with lots of parking either underground or in a parking structure at the back of the lot with retail in front and an entrance off of Quinpool.

Parking structures don't have to be ugly, though unfortunately that's the only variety that exists in Halifax (see: MetroPark).

They could eliminate on-street parking on Quinpool, put in reversing lanes like at the rotary or bridge, then widen the sidewalks somewhat and put in trees between pedestrians and cars. That would likely be a better solution for everybody than what currently exists. Add in a dozen or so mid-sized infill buildings with underground parking and you'd have a really successful street. Quinpool is doing okay right now but it is a little quiet, which is to be expected when you have single family dwellings nearby with limitations on apartments and slowly shrinking household sizes.

[halifaxboyns]

It's easy to imagine a highrise building on the Ben's site with lots of parking either underground or in a parking structure at the back of the lot with retail in front and an entrance off of Quinpool.

Parking structures don't have to be ugly, though unfortunately that's the only variety that exists in Halifax (see: MetroPark).

They could eliminate on-street parking on Quinpool, put in reversing lanes like at the rotary or bridge, then widen the sidewalks somewhat and put in trees between pedestrians and cars. That would likely be a better solution for everybody than what currently exists. Add in a dozen or so mid-sized infill buildings with underground parking and you'd have a really successful street. Quinpool is doing okay right now but it is a little quiet, which is to be expected when you have single family dwellings nearby with limitations on apartments and slowly shrinking household sizes.

KeithP> I wonder how much of the soon to be former RCMP site will have to be gobbled up for the Bayers Road widening?

Someone123> I somewhat agree with you on Metropark. It's a step up from the parkade that was where the Twisted Sisters will be; but it still falls down. You can design them quite nicely with retail on the ground floor - although I think if you were going to do a parkade and still have reversing lanes for peak hours - you will need to eliminate access off of Quinpool completely during peak hours (let alone any other time) - in addition to parking (at least in my opinion). I would think it would be better to encourage the mixed use buildings in the entire block between Quinpool and Pepperell (between Preston and Vernon Streets) and allow shared access off Pepperell Street for vehicles. The 'front half' of the block facing the street can have the commercial component with residential above and then blocks behind can share a driveway and have low rise residential (say 5 stories) facing the smaller homes.

Perhaps the parkade at the corner of Quinpool and Vernon where an existing strip mall is?

In the concept I did up, I saw the mall redeveloping as well. Opening up more opportunity for another residential tower (or two). I'm thinking demolish the existing mall component, but leave the existing residential. Dig out the parking lot to build more parking below grade (2 stories, plus at grade level) and then a redesigned commercial space at the street. Combine this with improved sidewalk as previously suggested, more trees, better bus stops and 2 more residential towers, I think you have some real density going here. I'd also add that the 4 storey buildings in the back should also increase or be re-designed to be something a bit stronger, but with low density right behind it - nothing too big (say 7 to 10 stories with the building stepped to it's maximum height).

Has there been any decision on the St. Patrick's school site? That could be a huge building lot for 2 high towers of mixed use.

I was thinking of a way that could inspire good design form through zoning the other night and reading about bonusing methods used in other zoning based Cities. This might be an area that could inspire some much needed public realm improvements while achieving certain densities and then not having to go through a development agreement - eliminating an appeal, but still maybe use the new planning committee to be something more than just downtown.

What I was thinking was creating a specific mixed use zoning district where all the typical uses that you would want to see along the street (including big retail stores); you'd have to right rules to make the design interesting - articulation, maybe specific materials and size limitations for things like big box retail so it didn't dominate - but then for building height - you allow an as of right minimum height of say 10 stories and then an as of right maximum height of 15 stories. Then if you wanted to max out your height and density to say 20 stories; you'd have to do thinks like build to say leed: silver or gold, contribute to public realm improvements, contribute to the building of a common use parkade, donate money for park improvements or local community improvements, green roofs, solar panels, etc. Instead of the Development Officer deciding if what you did was good to get the max height - the planning committee they've setup would. It would be a technical presentation by someone in Planning, then the developer could answer questions - they'd comment on design and could approve it with tweeks as needed. The problem is that you'd have to do form based zoning - which isn't easy to do. A DA would be great because its all a contract; but then there is that appeal again.

You could also knock the numbers down if 20 stories was too high for people; say the max height is 15 and then the as of right limits would be 5 to 10?

The mixed use block could continue down the north side of Quinpool and include the entire block from Yale to Quinpool. But only the lots facing Quinpool on all the way down to Elm, but I would encourage residential on the south side from Connaught all the way up the mixed use area which could start Beech and run east. With the two infill condo buildings on Pepperell at Oxford, I'd say that style development would work all down Pepperell and all down the south side of Quinpool to Connaught and along Oxford Street up to Oak.

Thoughts?

[JustinMacD]

Yep. Parking garages don't have to be ugly.

San Fran:
http://www.socketsite.com/Hastings%20Parking%20Garage%20At%20GGA%20and%20Larkin.jpg

This red brick one would fit in perfectly! lol
http://www.maengr.com/epb%20garage.bmp

http://www.staustin.org/pictures/parking%20garage%20perspective.JPG

[JustinMacD]

I think this one is at Arizona State University?

http://arthistorian.files.wordpress.com/2008/01/asu_parking.jpg

[JustinMacD]

OR! You could go green and funky like this one in Santa Monica!

http://www.surfsantamonica.com/ssm_site/images/images-lookout/2007/IL-03_2007/03-28-07-GreenGarage.jpg

[halifaxboyns]

We have a parking garage here in downtown Calgary that until I actually used it; I thought was an office building.

Here's the streetview image:
Streetview (http://maps.google.ca/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=Calgary&sll=49.891235,-97.15369&sspn=34.021494,67.587891&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Calgary,+Division+No.+6,+Alberta&ll=51.046979,-114.075208&spn=0,0.012317&t=h&z=17&layer=c&cbll=51.044939,-114.074051&panoid=KvybUcdpoExDLo__yJfCDw&cbp=12,296.58,,0,-8.41)

[halifaxboyns]

So after doing some posting on here last night; I went over HRM and came up with a list of potential locations to consider redevelopment. Some of them are from our discussions here, some are places I thought would be good. I should point out that not all these sites would be mixed use commercial/residential - they maybe more office or office/campus development, or even include hotels etc.

Here is my 'growth' wish list:

Ashburn Golf Course
West End Mall (mixed use commercial/residential towers - with TOD for commuter rail)
Agricola Street Commercial Corridor (From North Street to Cunard)
Armoury Block (South of the Armoury)
Agricola Block 2 (The area north of North Street including Robie, May, Ontario and Fuller Terr)
Hydrostone Block 1 (Kaye, Gottingen, Almond, Agircola - Includes St. John's Church Site)
Hydrostone Block 2 (Isleville, Hennessey, Agricola, Kaye, Young and Hillford - the triangular block)
Hydrostone Block 3 (Young, Agircola, Robie, Russell; excluding the Cable site)
Hydrostone Block 4 (Robie, Macara, Agricola, Almon)
Robie Block (Almon, Gladstone, North and Robie)
Forum Block (Windsor, North, Almon and Robie)
Superstore/Strip Mall - Young Street
Robie Car lot block (west of the Agricola corridor)
Robie Block 2 (Robie, Clifton, Charles and Cunard)
Gottingen Street Corridor (Uniacke Square, Gerrish, Ceighton, Gottingen and Cunard)
Quinpool Mixed use corridor (Allan/Williams; Robie; Pepperell; Oak and Beach)
Brenton Block (Block containing the Trillium)
Parking lots to the east of the Trillium
South Block (Wellington, South, Inglis, South Park)
Lucknow Block (Bland, Victoria, Lucknow, Inglis)
Bland Block (Bland, Victoria, Inglis)
Morris/South (Morris/South/Queen/Barrington)
Lady Hammond Road Block (Upzone exitsing apartments; townhouse area)
Bayers Road (The Village; Scott, Desmond, Bayers, Joe Howe Drive)
Westerwald Block (section of land backing onto old train tracks north of the 102 overpass)
Fairview (Dutch Village, Percey and Andrew - case already being done for this)
Fairview Block 2 (Vimmy, Bedford Highway, Dutch Village, Alma, Titus)
Wyse Road Block (Wyse, Lyle, William, Davison)
Dartmouth Shopping Centre (TOD - mixed use)
Brightwood Golf Course
Green Block (Green, Bland, Nantucket, Victoria)
Thistle Block (land east of the golf course along Thistle)
Albro Lake Block (Victoria, Slayter, Chappell, Leaman, Crystal/Brule)
Highfield Park (taller, bigger towers adjacent to bus station - TOD)
Shannon Park
Shannon Park North (north of DFO lands)
Portland Block (north of King's Wharf)
Downtown Dartmouth - towers, mixed use (TOD)
Newcastle Block (Old Ferry Road to tupper; West of Victoria/Newcastle)
Brownlown Park/Penhorn area
Main Street Corridor (HRM already doing plan)
Portland Street (along BRT)
Cole Harbour (in general)
Windmill Road Fast Ferry option (office towers/campus development around the area)


The street names are meant to assist in providing rough areas to define the 'block'. So in the case of the Morris/South block - it would be the area defined from Morris to South to Queen to Barrington (it should create a block).

44 - that's not too bad and much of it is along major transit lines.

[JustinMacD]

"South Block (Wellington, South, Inglis, South Park)"

Some of the properties on Inglis street between Tower and South Park are absolutely atrocious. Most of them have the Heritage designation too.. so there is nothing you can do about it. I'm not talking about a little paint either. Some of those houses have massive holes in them and are falling down.

A lot of ugly properties too (people not cutting grass, garbage everywhere). It's pretty bad.

[halifaxboyns]

"South Block (Wellington, South, Inglis, South Park)"

Some of the properties on Inglis street between Tower and South Park are absolutely atrocious. Most of them have the Heritage designation too.. so there is nothing you can do about it. I'm not talking about a little paint either. Some of those houses have massive holes in them and are falling down.

A lot of ugly properties too (people not cutting grass, garbage everywhere). It's pretty bad.

You can encorporate them or - after waiting 1 years; they can be demolished. There is always a way! :)

[halifaxboyns]

I just realized that I left off the list a portion of the Robie/Spring Garden/Carlton/College Block (mainly those lots facing Robie or Spring Garden).

If I recall correctly Carlton and portions of Tower Road are heritage streetscapes; so I don't think those buildings could easily come down - but I would inclined to see the Tower Terrace Block (where a new building went up recently on the corner of Wellington and South Street) be the main upzoning area. Some of the multis in that block look old and could use an update or rebuild to something a little taller.

[someone123]

Inglis is sad. It should have become a major commercial street (partly serving SMU) with a moderate amount of infill and lots of new residential on sidestreets. It's in limbo because it's yet another place where residents don't want anything to be built.

The heritage designations have not been particularly helpful since some of the nicest properties have been torn down over the years while middling houses were used as an excuse to keep everything in stasis.

Maybe the Southwest project by the grain elevator will help but it takes so much more than that to support a full, viable range of services.

Horribly inefficient, unattractive land use: http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&q=Inglis+St,+Halifax,+Halifax+County,+Nova+Scotia+B3H,+Canada&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=43.528905,93.076172&ie=UTF8&cd=1&geocode=FTMOqQIdsdw1_A&split=0&hq=&hnear=Inglis+St,+Nova+Scotia,+Canada&ll=44.634841,-63.574169&spn=0.009589,0.022724&t=h&z=16&layer=c&cbll=44.634909,-63.573931&panoid=NJ8Bfet9wyBwKSe7e_Arag&cbp=12,164.54,,0,6.27

Random little house and ugly condos: http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&q=Inglis+St,+Halifax,+Halifax+County,+Nova+Scotia+B3H,+Canada&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=43.528905,93.076172&ie=UTF8&cd=1&geocode=FTMOqQIdsdw1_A&split=0&hq=&hnear=Inglis+St,+Nova+Scotia,+Canada&ll=44.634841,-63.574169&spn=0.009589,0.022724&t=h&z=16&layer=c&cbll=44.634909,-63.573931&panoid=NJ8Bfet9wyBwKSe7e_Arag&cbp=12,31.28,,0,4.83 ... South Street does a somewhat better job at this: http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&q=Inglis+St,+Halifax,+Halifax+County,+Nova+Scotia+B3H,+Canada&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=43.528905,93.076172&ie=UTF8&cd=1&geocode=FTMOqQIdsdw1_A&split=0&hq=&hnear=Inglis+St,+Nova+Scotia,+Canada&t=h&layer=c&cbll=44.639464,-63.572496&panoid=BJcNMLfV98tuwysllR4qUQ&cbp=12,47.29,,0,-6.3&ll=44.63943,-63.572613&spn=0.004825,0.011362&z=17

You can thank the city for this one: http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&q=Inglis+St,+Halifax,+Halifax+County,+Nova+Scotia+B3H,+Canada&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=43.528905,93.076172&ie=UTF8&cd=1&geocode=FTMOqQIdsdw1_A&split=0&hq=&hnear=Inglis+St,+Nova+Scotia,+Canada&ll=44.636307,-63.569502&spn=0.004825,0.011362&t=h&z=17&layer=c&cbll=44.63599,-63.569874&panoid=1IME_NIQMWnhODsSn7e09w&cbp=12,150.82,,0,7.29

[halifaxboyns]

Inglis is sad. It should have become a major commercial street (partly serving SMU) with a moderate amount of infill and lots of new residential on sidestreets. It's in limbo because it's yet another place where residents don't want anything to be built.

The heritage designations have not been particularly helpful since some of the nicest properties have been torn down over the years while middling houses were used as an excuse to keep everything in stasis.

Maybe the Southwest project by the grain elevator will help but it takes so much more than that to support a full, viable range of services.


The heritage streetscapes only apply to a small portion of Tower Road and Inglis Street. So it's the north side of Inglis Street between South Park and Lucknow and then the east side of Tower Road between Inglis and Victoria Road.

The horrible little building at the bend of Inglis as it becomes Barrington Street (across the street from 'the ship house' owned by architect Geoff Keddy) (if i'm not mistaken) was a result of the big sewage problem during the floods; so as much as I dislike it - its a necessary evil I'm willing to accept (so long as it keeps the sewers from backing up again).

I share your hope that the new building by the grain elevators would be a catalyst - that new building that went up on South Street by the VG looks pretty nice too. Considering that most of the tower road block to the west is multi in some form (and not registered heritage properties); I really do see that entire block being an opportunity. The height precinct is 70 feet and the new building on the Wellington Corner is 95'; so it's a good example of improved density at the 10 to 12 storey level without causing too much fuss.

Btw; I dated the lawyer that lived in the dark blue townhouse there on south street - he ran for the liberals a few times.

[JustinMacD]

Inglis is sad. It should have become a major commercial street (partly serving SMU) with a moderate amount of infill and lots of new residential on sidestreets. It's in limbo because it's yet another place where residents don't want anything to be built.

The heritage designations have not been particularly helpful since some of the nicest properties have been torn down over the years while middling houses were used as an excuse to keep everything in stasis.

Maybe the Southwest project by the grain elevator will help but it takes so much more than that to support a full, viable range of services.

Horribly inefficient, unattractive land use: http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&q=Inglis+St,+Halifax,+Halifax+County,+Nova+Scotia+B3H,+Canada&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=43.528905,93.076172&ie=UTF8&cd=1&geocode=FTMOqQIdsdw1_A&split=0&hq=&hnear=Inglis+St,+Nova+Scotia,+Canada&ll=44.634841,-63.574169&spn=0.009589,0.022724&t=h&z=16&layer=c&cbll=44.634909,-63.573931&panoid=NJ8Bfet9wyBwKSe7e_Arag&cbp=12,164.54,,0,6.27

Random little house and ugly condos: http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&q=Inglis+St,+Halifax,+Halifax+County,+Nova+Scotia+B3H,+Canada&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=43.528905,93.076172&ie=UTF8&cd=1&geocode=FTMOqQIdsdw1_A&split=0&hq=&hnear=Inglis+St,+Nova+Scotia,+Canada&ll=44.634841,-63.574169&spn=0.009589,0.022724&t=h&z=16&layer=c&cbll=44.634909,-63.573931&panoid=NJ8Bfet9wyBwKSe7e_Arag&cbp=12,31.28,,0,4.83 ... South Street does a somewhat better job at this: http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&q=Inglis+St,+Halifax,+Halifax+County,+Nova+Scotia+B3H,+Canada&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=43.528905,93.076172&ie=UTF8&cd=1&geocode=FTMOqQIdsdw1_A&split=0&hq=&hnear=Inglis+St,+Nova+Scotia,+Canada&t=h&layer=c&cbll=44.639464,-63.572496&panoid=BJcNMLfV98tuwysllR4qUQ&cbp=12,47.29,,0,-6.3&ll=44.63943,-63.572613&spn=0.004825,0.011362&z=17

You can thank the city for this one: http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&q=Inglis+St,+Halifax,+Halifax+County,+Nova+Scotia+B3H,+Canada&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=43.528905,93.076172&ie=UTF8&cd=1&geocode=FTMOqQIdsdw1_A&split=0&hq=&hnear=Inglis+St,+Nova+Scotia,+Canada&ll=44.636307,-63.569502&spn=0.004825,0.011362&t=h&z=17&layer=c&cbll=44.63599,-63.569874&panoid=1IME_NIQMWnhODsSn7e09w&cbp=12,150.82,,0,7.29

There are much worse properties than that too.

Inglis is a train wreck. Some of the houses are literally falling down but you can't do anything about it.

[JustinMacD]

This is the most obvious site for new development in the heart of the BD.

http://i25.tinypic.com/2i29yl5.jpg

[Dmajackson]

^That is the Texpark (United Gulf) site. It's the two 27 storey towers that are approved but in limbo from all of the appeals and whatnot.