[flar]

http://segaert.zenfolio.com/img/s1/v20/p213353293.jpg (http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showpost.php?p=3972431&postcount=2)http://segaert.zenfolio.com/img/s1/v22/p505224707.jpg (http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showpost.php?p=3949148&postcount=1)http://segaert.zenfolio.com/img/s1/v21/p172853489.jpg (http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showpost.php?p=3986540&postcount=3)


Montréal: Le Plateau

http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k28/segaert/2010/plateau/dsc_0069.jpg

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http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k28/segaert/2010/plateau/dsc_0124.jpghttp://aas.ath.cx/threads/plateau.jpg

[Muji]

Hot damn do those streets look good!

[ShadowMaster]

Give this man a standing ovation.

[sabotai]

oh my god.... my jaw literally dropped viewing this thread :worship: :worship: :worship: :worship: :worship: :worship: :worship: :worship: :worship: :worship: :worship: :worship: :worship: :worship:

[Sekkle]

oh damn. This is sick! Awesome work flar!

[ue]

That is urbane. Nice thread, so unWestern architecture. thank-you!! :)

[uaarkson]

It's like a french brooklyn! Gorgeous.

[Darkoshvilli]

Flar

+

Plateau

=

Heaven

[Austinlee]

Incredible. An amazing hood.
What's with the seemingly mandatory metal stairs? I think i prefer concrete such as NY brownstone walk-ups.

[HomeInMyShoes]

Hooray for Montréal!

[Troyeth]

Quite simple one of the finest neighborhoods anywhere! Beautiful!

[boden]

Great stuff!

[kool maudit]

and after all this we're still below richmond???

[Kingofthehill]

Well, it's no Phoenix or Tampa! :haha:

[flar]

and after all this we're still below richmond???

Okay, I take that back, Montreal surpasses Richmond's Fan District, especially in the vicinity of St. Louis Square.

[ColDayMan]

Gorgeous neighborhood.

[LAsam]

We've had a real Montreal love fest going on lately on SSP. Not that I'm complaining... it's just making me really want to visit the place!

[kool maudit]

It's like a french brooklyn


that's all montreal ever wanted, really.

[Thundertubs]

That's some good neighborhood right there.

[stepper77]

Beautiful homes and shots! I definitely need to visit myself. Thanks!

[STLeric]

Simply breathtaking!!!!! Rules!!! :banger:

[Tom In Chicago]

great photos. . .

[xzmattzx]

Great pictures! I don't recall seeing an entire neighborhood in a big city use this much stone before. Where is La Plateau, by the way?

[LSyd]

shit yeah

-

[dktshb]

Gorgeous! I just can't get enough of Montreal. Montreal + a Flar photo thread equals Nirvana.

[samne]

"Canada's most urban neighbourhood"?...no argurment here.

[Chelsea Spy]

gorgeous town houses - and such a superb array of styles, some quite fantastic buildings!

[peanut gallery]

I just have to visit this city. Thanks for the tour, flar.

[Vicelord John]

ahhhhhh.

That's the Montreal I remembered. Dirty, shabby, piece of shit town...

Your pictures tell a good story and show it well for what it is. Thanks.

That place really is a piece of shit though. I stayed at the Econo Lodge on Rue De St Catherine and I was scared out of my mind by all the crackheads and shit... and it's the most run down city I've ever seen.

[Darkoshvilli]

^Now tell us how you really feel.

[NYaMtl]

Great pictures! I don't recall seeing an entire neighborhood in a big city use this much stone before. Where is La Plateau, by the way?

Le Plateau Mont-Royal north/northeast from Montreal's core. It is bounded by
- Sherbrooke street to the south (adjacent to downtown, the Quartier Latin, and Centre-sud)
- Parc to the west (adjacent to Milton-Parc/McGill Ghetto, Mount Royal, Mile End, and Outremont)
- and the CN train tracks to the north and east (adjacent to Petite-Patrie and Rosemont)

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=montreal&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=33.160552,79.013672&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Montreal,+Communaut%C3%A9-Urbaine-de-Montr%C3%A9al,+Quebec,+Canada&ll=45.530403,-73.573937&spn=0.01431,0.038581&z=15

[Ch.G, Ch.G]

ahhhhhh.

That's the Montreal I remembered. Dirty, shabby, piece of shit town...

Your pictures tell a good story and show it well for what it is. Thanks.

That place really is a piece of shit though. I stayed at the Econo Lodge on Rue De St Catherine and I was scared out of my mind by all the crackheads and shit... and it's the most run down city I've ever seen.

Totes dude. I only saw ONE Audi and ONE Mercedes (SUV) in those photos. Such a piece of shit...

[destroycreate]

Wow, I really need to get my ass over to Montreal and experience that city. It just has so much beautiful architecture and vibrance. It seems that Canadian cities compared to American have much less "chains" in their urban areas and as well as less of a disney-fied commercial feel.

Just out of curiosity, seeing as these kinds of urban hoods are few and far between in the US, thus typically being extremely expensive (think Boston/NYC/SF), how much would it cost to live in these neighborhoods in Montreal? The area looks rather "local" and mom-n-pop-ish, and I don't see many luxury cars, so it is it an affordable place to live overall?

[kool maudit]

the plateau isn't that expensive, maybe $800-$1000 for a nice one-bedroom or a smaller two bedroom.

[kool maudit]

I stayed at the Econo Lodge on Rue De St Catherine.




this may have had something to do with your little problem.

[destroycreate]

the plateau isn't that expensive, maybe $800-$1000 for a nice one-bedroom or a smaller two bedroom.

Wow, that's very decent. Is there a specific reason for it being so affordable? Seems like a gem of an area that loads of hipsters/yuppies/wealthy people would want to exploit.

[MonkeyRonin]

and after all this we're still below richmond???

No way that the Plateau (or anywhere in Canada) can compete the sheer urbanity of this:

http://www.pbase.com/image/122708504.jpg
http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=179568

[Vicelord John]

Wow, that's very decent. Is there a specific reason for it being so affordable? Seems like a gem of an area that loads of hipsters/yuppies/wealthy people would want to exploit.

Its cheap cuz its the ghetto.

And guy, i know econo lodge sucks but i was 19 thats the best i could do. That doesn't mean the areahas to be super shady. I felt more comfortable in scarborough, detroit, and hell even st louis.

[kool maudit]

this is just weird. montreal may have its faults, but it's not a particularly dangerous city.

you would think that vice lords (or whatever) would be a bit harder to intimidate.

[Calgarian]

Great photos, great architecture, great city.

[mike474]

Wow, that's very decent. Is there a specific reason for it being so affordable? Seems like a gem of an area that loads of hipsters/yuppies/wealthy people would want to exploit.

It used to be a very working-class neighbourhood. I think flar tried to exhibit some of the nicer architecture and as a result underplayed the amount of simpler plexes dotting the neighbourhood (although there are quite a few good examples in the photos as well). There's a large artist and student population (thanks to close proximity to McGill and UQÀM) and I think the place has gentrified quite substantially in the last few decades and prices will continue to rise as with many former working class neighbourhoods that are close to the city centre so I'd say it's in the process of being exploited. Plus, housing in Montreal is quite affordable compared to other large Canadian cities.

[mr.John]

ahhhhhh.

That's the Montreal I remembered. Dirty, shabby, piece of shit town...

Your pictures tell a good story and show it well for what it is. Thanks.

That place really is a piece of shit though. I stayed at the Econo Lodge on Rue De St Catherine and I was scared out of my mind by all the crackheads and shit... and it's the most run down city I've ever seen.

Well first off there's no Econo-lodge located on St-Catherine (that I know off)which leads me to believe you never visited this city, in fact I doubt you can find it on a map. But I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume your talking about the Econo-lodge located on St-Dominque. Yes admittedly the area has a few Squeegee punks and drunks wondering around, but if that's all it takes for you to run off in terror like a little girl then you have a serious problem in the courage department. In closing your comparison of Montreal to Detroit safety wise is beyond stupid ...I truly believe you never set foot in both cities

[Vicelord John]

I told you it was how it felt. Im not basing ot off of statistics. First off your post is a very personally confrontational one, but whatever. Secobdly, montrealy feels like an absolute scum pit. Ugliest city i've ever been to.

[kool maudit]

ok. whatever. n'importe quoi.

[elsonic]

^ :jester:

[Darkoshvilli]

He must have had a bad experience and is now slamming the entire city for it. lol Cmon John, its not that bad here.:jester:

[Vicelord John]

nah, no bad experience at all. No run in with anyone, no observation of crime.

I just saw nothing but graffiti, falling apart buildings, bums everywhere, boarded up places left and right, and a look like nobody had maintained the city in decades. I'm not claiming I live in a utopia, but when I did a cross country drive, I stayed in hotels in downtown St. Louis, Chicago, Detroit, Toronto, Montreal, Boston, New York, Philadelphia, Columbus, Cleveland, Kansas City, Salt Lake City, Las Vegas, Los Angeles, San Diego, Tucson, and then back to Phoenix. Montreal was by far the most god awfully ugly city in the trip. The whole area looked like the worst parts of NY and Cleveland. But with way more graffiti. I'm obviously sounding like a broken record, so I'm done. I just wanted to make it clear that this had nothing to do with a run in with anyone or anything like that.

It looked like Mad Max.

[Darkoshvilli]

Sure, whatever you say.

I'll just let the pictures in this thread, and the many other threads of Montreal here, prove you wrong.:cheers:

[pEte fiSt iN Ur fAce]

The guy's a troll.

I don't live in Montreal and never have, but of all the North American cities I've visited, it's the coolest, hippest, sexiest, funnest, most awesomest city ever!!!

[NYaMtl]

I just saw nothing but graffiti, falling apart buildings, bums everywhere, boarded up places left and right...

Which obviously means the whole city looks like the alleyway behind an imaginary Econolodge.

[Vicelord John]

So sorry i got the name of the street wrong.


http://www.econolodge.com/hotel-montreal-canada-CN381

[NYaMtl]

So sorry i got the name of the street wrong.


http://www.econolodge.com/hotel-montreal-canada-CN381

Ok, it makes a bit more sense. St. Laurent from Chinatown to Sherbrooke used to be pretty shockingly decayed. The old "red light" district from St. Denis to Place des Arts along Ste-Catherine included a lot of boarded up shops and unsavory characters (though even if run-down some pretty impressive architectural examples).

For this handful of blocks, your assessment would have been accurate, and today this part of the city is rapidly changing. Gentrification in this area is accelerating with the "Quartier des spectacles" project--the whole area is a construction zone and home to some new or revived cultural institutions (S.A.T., Monument Nationale). The pace and nature of change in the area has been sparking a lot of debate among Montreal's denizens.

What doesn't make sense--the Latin Quarter (http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=montreal&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=33.160552,79.013672&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Montreal,+Communaut%C3%A9-Urbaine-de-Montr%C3%A9al,+Quebec,+Canada&ll=45.515189,-73.563783&spn=0.001804,0.004823&t=h&z=18&layer=c&cbll=45.515229,-73.563754&panoid=wYNowj__O1ankJuuKALlCg&cbp=12,112.49,,0,-1.71), downtown (http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=montreal&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=33.160552,79.013672&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Montreal,+Communaut%C3%A9-Urbaine-de-Montr%C3%A9al,+Quebec,+Canada&ll=45.499858,-73.572403&spn=0.001805,0.004823&t=h&z=18&layer=c&cbll=45.500067,-73.572859&panoid=lmNqgxzxO4LXfquWty-rcQ&cbp=12,55.11,,0,-6.21), the Plateau (http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=montreal&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=33.160552,79.013672&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Montreal,+Communaut%C3%A9-Urbaine-de-Montr%C3%A9al,+Quebec,+Canada&t=h&layer=c&cbll=45.516151,-73.570664&panoid=l0kcgIhVl_p_YWom3hb5QQ&cbp=12,184.85,,0,-4.01&ll=45.516166,-73.570129&spn=0.001804,0.004823&z=18), the old city (http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=montreal&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=33.160552,79.013672&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Montreal,+Communaut%C3%A9-Urbaine-de-Montr%C3%A9al,+Quebec,+Canada&ll=45.506497,-73.553075&spn=0.001805,0.004823&t=h&z=18&layer=c&cbll=45.506425,-73.553141&panoid=6muE1g-bTq9sIoguaNFb_Q&cbp=12,220.61,,0,-6.4), and other lovely neighborhoods are all a stone's throw away, minutes on foot, from this hotel, and are all quite different from your descriptions. It's as if you walked down the street and back, and never went anywhere else in the city.


My vote: something bad must have happened to you.

[Vaillant]

I told you it was how it felt. Im not basing ot off of statistics. First off your post is a very personally confrontational one, but whatever. Secobdly, montrealy feels like an absolute scum pit. Ugliest city i've ever been to.

what city you from to say that?

[Vicelord John]

602

[softee]

I just took a tour of the streets around that hotel on google streetview and I didn't see anything that even raised my eyebrows. :shrug:

[Spoolmak]

the things I would do to live in one of those rowhouses...

[Spoolmak]

I told you it was how it felt. Im not basing ot off of statistics. First off your post is a very personally confrontational one, but whatever. Secobdly, montrealy feels like an absolute scum pit. Ugliest city i've ever been to.

Ugliest city you have ever been to? Lower your expectations man...Its not Paris. But it certainly is one of the most architecturally beautiful cities on this continent. Every city has its shady parts. It gives it character, something this city has so much of its bursting at the seams.

[Vicelord John]

I just took a tour of the streets around that hotel on google streetview and I didn't see anything that even raised my eyebrows. :shrug:

Maybe it's more acceptable in Canada, but Phoenix does not have miles of graffiti.

[MonkeyRonin]

Maybe it's more acceptable in Canada, but Phoenix does not have miles of graffiti.

Its not about Canada vs. the US, but that any dense, culturally vibrant city with a large collection of artists is going to have plenty of graffiti. "Cities" that look like this however, not so much.

http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/6784/23070227.jpg

[dktshb]

Maybe it's more acceptable in Canada, but Phoenix does not have miles of graffiti. Perhaps not, but I bet Phoenix is much more "dangerous" than Montreal and a lot less interesting on top of it.

[Vicelord John]

My argument like I said is not based on crime statistics. I obviously know that Phoenix is one of the more dangerous cities in the US, but it is about feeling. Montreal feels like the hood. I walked up and down St. Laurent which I was told is one of the more vibrant areas, and it was extremely run down.

I understand you all are defensive when someone says something about your city, but I think you are taking it out of context, or I explained it poorly.

This:
http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k28/segaert/2010/plateau/dsc_0012.jpg

Looks like some scumbucket eastern european street corner. Trash on the street, wooden telephone poles, clutter on balconies (at least its not clothes hanging to dry), graffiti, busted up streets and sidewalks, etc. I won't even go into how frightening those alley ways look.

As opposed to this, which has intact streets and sidewalks, no clutter, no trash, everything clean and nice.
http://abqstyle.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/phoenix-metro-light-rail-2.jpg

[someone123]

I think the problem here is that you got on a plane for a few hours, got off, and expected everything to look like Phoenix.

Is anybody even using that little train?

[Vicelord John]

I actually drove there and spent two days but whatever. Yes, 55,000 a day use that "little train" which is quite impressive seeing as it is only one line thus far.

[PhilippeMtl]

Funny, my father went to a congress in Phoenix and someone has been stabbed several times just in front of his hotel. He told me downtown was small, nobody in the streets except bums, homeless people and boring as hell..

[Vicelord John]

Funny, my father went to a congress in Phoenix and someone has been stabbed several times just in front of his hotel. He told me downtown was small, nobody in the streets except bums, homeless people and boring as hell..

hmmm... I've lived in the center of downtown phoenix for a few years. I've never heard of any crime issues except for the two stabbings in front of the Wyndham, and one gun crime with a couple of gang members who left a club. I actually was working at the Wyndham when that happened, it was a female flight attendant who was standing next to an alley counting her money in her purse and talking on the cell phone. She was begging for it and I don't think it matters what city you are in that is likely to happen to her. I do not feel unsafe walking around at 2am piss drunk by myself and have never even had a verbal confrontation except for ones I've initiated.

However, in Montreal, all I saw were crazy youth hostel looking people with colored hair and tattered clothes. Those ones scare me more than the bums because they look actually fit enough to fight or chase. There was graffiti everywhere which means lots of gang activity.

[niwell]

There was graffiti everywhere which means lots of gang activity.


There's a huge difference between gang graffiti and the type that dominates Montreal. It's really not hard to distinguish between the two.

[mike474]

There's really no point in continuing this debate. It's obvious that Vicelord prefers the new and clean look of a sunbelt city to an almost 400 year old eastern industrial city and even though most disagree, I don't think anyone will change his/her mind.

While some of those assertions were harsh, I think Vicelord made it clear it was just anecdotal experience. While it's fair to explain what may be misconceptions on the part of Vicelord (like the fact that despite the graffiti and offensive looking people Montreal has a very low crime rate for a large north american city) you won't change a determined mind.

[Vicelord John]

There's really no point in continuing this debate. It's obvious that Vicelord prefers the new and clean look of a sunbelt city to an almost 400 year old eastern industrial city and even though most disagree, I don't think anyone will change his/her mind.

While some of those assertions were harsh, I think Vicelord made it clear it was just anecdotal experience. While it's fair to explain what may be misconceptions on the part of Vicelord (like the fact that despite the graffiti and offensive looking people Montreal has a very low crime rate for a large north american city) you won't change a determined mind.



I like you, you're rational. :yes:

[mike474]

I like you, you're rational. :yes:

Is it ironic then that I'm moving to Montreal in a few months and there's a good chance I might live in that very neighbourhood? Is that rational? :haha:

[NYaMtl]

There was graffiti everywhere which means lots of gang activity.

Thanks for making me laugh. I understand where you're coming from, but I guess a bit of graffiti and detritus here and there don't make easterners that squeamish. BTW--what's wrong with hanging your laundry out to dry?

For what it's worth, Montreal has an exceptionally low crime rate for a city of this size, and we are about as far from having a "gang problem" as you get in the Americas*--if you come back, you really have nothing to worry about. You can wander around virtually any part of town in the wee hours without a problem--i've been doing it for 10 years and haven't even *seen* anything more than a drunken brawl.

*With the Mafia and Hell's Angels being important exceptions--but problems pretty far removed from the inhabitants of la belle ville.

[Vicelord John]

Thanks for making me laugh. I understand where you're coming from, but I guess a bit of graffiti and detritus here and there don't make easterners that squeamish. BTW--what's wrong with hanging your laundry out to dry?


Well, I'm sorry, I associate graffiti with no good. It's not pretty. And hanging laundry out to dry in places in view to the public is hood behavior.

[NYaMtl]

I understand you all are defensive when someone says something about your city, but I think you are taking it out of context, or I explained it poorly.

This:
http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k28/segaert/2010/plateau/dsc_0012.jpg

Looks like some scumbucket eastern european street corner. Trash on the street, wooden telephone poles, clutter on balconies (at least its not clothes hanging to dry), graffiti, busted up streets and sidewalks, etc. I won't even go into how frightening those alley ways look.

As opposed to this, which has intact streets and sidewalks, no clutter, no trash, everything clean and nice.
http://abqstyle.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/phoenix-metro-light-rail-2.jpg

We're taking it out of context? You're comparing a recently renovated part of downtown Phoenix to a random street corner in one of the outer parts of Montreal? Did you even go to downtown Montreal, or did you wander only around St. Laurent?

Hey, look!

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/0c/QuartierInternational2.JPG

Intact streets and sidewalks, no clutter, no trash, everything clean and nice. (and, ahem, no parking lots, overhead wires, or billboards in this one!)

We're getting defensive only because you've made some pretty ridiculous generalizations. Yes, parts of Montréal are trashy, even run-down in parts. But the city is consistently vibrant and has neighborhoods that stand out next to almost any other city on the continent. There are many parts of the core that are clean and have excellent infrastructure, along with world class architecture...etc. etc. Even its trashy neighborhoods have more street life than 90% of the urban sunbelt, and that's something we are proud of.

[NYaMtl]

I actually drove there and spent two days but whatever. Yes, 55,000 a day use that "little train" which is quite impressive seeing as it is only one line thus far.

It's not that impressive to a city that's smaller than yours but with four train lines used by 989,000 a day.

[destroycreate]

My argument like I said is not based on crime statistics. I obviously know that Phoenix is one of the more dangerous cities in the US, but it is about feeling. Montreal feels like the hood. I walked up and down St. Laurent which I was told is one of the more vibrant areas, and it was extremely run down.

I understand you all are defensive when someone says something about your city, but I think you are taking it out of context, or I explained it poorly.

This:
http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k28/segaert/2010/plateau/dsc_0012.jpg

Looks like some scumbucket eastern european street corner. Trash on the street, wooden telephone poles, clutter on balconies (at least its not clothes hanging to dry), graffiti, busted up streets and sidewalks, etc. I won't even go into how frightening those alley ways look.

As opposed to this, which has intact streets and sidewalks, no clutter, no trash, everything clean and nice.
http://abqstyle.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/phoenix-metro-light-rail-2.jpg


If you honestly believe that PHX > Montreal, you shouldn't even be a member of this forum.

Look how friggin' sterile that second picture is! That's a disgrace to urbanity.

[le calmar]

The East end of downtown Montreal is definitely trashy, covered with graffitis and full of punks and weirdos and I understand how a stranger can feel unsafe in such a context. Hopefully things will change with Quartier des spectacles because I hate this place and I feel embarrassed when I walk there. But Montreal is definitely not a dangerous city, I walk in those areas all the time late at night, sometimes with my 2000$-worth camera, and never ran into trouble. This is a sterile debate, because as someone said you can't compare a 400 years-old industrial city to a sunbelt city.

[MonkeyRonin]

covered with graffitis and full of punks and weirdos

And this is exactly why Montreal is so great (well, its not all there is to it, of course). The worst thing that could happen to the city is for it to be turned into some sort of sterile, urban Disneyland to make it palatable for the visits of fearful suburbanites like Vicelord John.

[mike474]

Forgive me, but I'm going to change the topic at hand. When was the plateau developed? Obviously that's a complicated question, but would anyone know when the rowhouses around Square St. Louis were built for instance?

[Darkoshvilli]

Forgive me, but I'm going to change the topic at hand. When was the plateau developed? Obviously that's a complicated question, but would anyone know when the rowhouses around Square St. Louis were built for instance?

I know the park at st louis square was built in 1879, so I guess construction on the homes started about that time. The area actually used to be a water reservoir before being converted into a park.

[softee]

It's a good thing Vicelord didn't wander into Kensington Market while he was in Toronto or his head would have exploded.

[kool maudit]

there is a certain subset of suburban and western north americans who equate aging brick, row housing and urban density with "the hood," or "the ghetto," even though some of world's wealthiest neighbourhoods (including london's mayfair, which makes anything in phoenix, arizona look kind of trashy) are built in this way.

it's a bit of a weird thing to find one on ssp though.

[Vicelord John]

I love the old red brick neighborhoods. Lincoln Park in Chicago is one of my favorite places in the world. There is something about urban dense old neighborhoods that makes me feel funny in my pants. That's why I'm on this website. I'll flock to any business located in historic buildings. My favorite restaurants and bars are in places which are interesting architecturarly and historic. It has nothing to do with city vs. suburbs. It has to do with civic pride vs. letting your city fall to shambles.

Sure, Montreal has beautiful architecture, but when it is covered in graffiti, trash, and in disrepair, I don't find it beautiful anymore. There are plenty of neighborhoods which are either "up and coming" or "gentrified" and are beautiful even though they are hundreds of years old. There is a difference between gritty and downright trashy. Get it?

I am looking at these pictures, finding striking similarities with some parts of downtown St. Louis, or Gary, IN with better architecture. It could pass for some of the uglier parts of Pittsburgh as well.

I'm not a suburbanite, I hate the suburbs and when I vacation I stay as central as I can in any city. Montreal is just an ugly, run down place, though.

I'm going to reply to every person who continues to make an issue of this. I think it is run down and ugly, that's the way I'm going to think, and you aren't going to change my opinion. It has nothing to do with urbinity, but more a lack of regard and civic pride because it is apparent nobody cares to maintain the place, and let me add the city of Phoenix has a graffiti removal team (mostly volunteers within individual neighborhood associations, not HOA) and the city is almost free of it. Why can't montreal do the same? it would be unbelievable how much prettier the city would be. My guess is that it is apathy.

[Vicelord John]

It's a good thing Vicelord didn't wander into Kensington Market while he was in Toronto or his head would have exploded.

Why? if this picture I found on google images is the place you're speaking of, it's awesome There is a lot of shopping, a market with outdoor fruit, public art, etc. It's an urban wonderland. A total opposite of what I see in those Montreal pictures.

http://freshlyeducatedmen.files.wordpress.com/2009/07/kensington-market.jpg

[kool maudit]

I am looking at these pictures, finding striking similarities with some parts of downtown St. Louis, or Gary, IN with better architecture. It could pass for some of the uglier parts of Pittsburgh as well.

http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k28/segaert/2010/plateau/dsc_0064.jpg

I think it is run down and ugly, that's the way I'm going to think, and you aren't going to change my opinion.

this illogical obstinacy is something you should be ashamed of.

[niwell]

Why? if this picture I found on google images is the place you're speaking of, it's awesome There is a lot of shopping, a market with outdoor fruit, public art, etc. It's an urban wonderland. A total opposite of what I see in those Montreal pictures.




It is awesome, but has just as much garbage and graffiti as what you are lamenting in Montreal. The laneway in the picture you found just to the left of the TD bank ATM (which incidentally, has GRAFFITI at ground level) is often home to crust punks drinking openly. Y'know, the same type of people that terrified you on Ste-Catherine.

I'm not really sure I understand the preoccupation with graffiti either, particularly as the type predominant in Montreal does not signify gang activity. Plus a not insignificant portion of it - likely including the piece on the storefront of the Mtl street corner you reposted - is permitted by the building owners. You may not like it, but the presence of paint instead of a blank wall does not necessarily signify neglect.

I'll take this over a blank wall in a laneway any day (graffiti alley behind Queen St W in Toronto):

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2742/4286382854_f84779f175.jpg
by gingermaddy on flickr

[Vicelord John]

It is awesome, but has just as much garbage and graffiti as what you are lamenting in Montreal. The laneway in the picture you found just to the left of the TD bank ATM (which incidentally, has GRAFFITI at ground level) is often home to crust punks drinking openly. Y'know, the same type of people that terrified you on Ste-Catherine.



but it's vibrant. All of those pictures of Montreal it looks like a ghost town. And that graffiti you posted is some quality shit that a lot of people would consider art. Not like those lame ass tags in Montreal pictures.

[Vicelord John]

this illogical obstinacy is something you should be ashamed of.

I should be ashamed of standing by my beliefs and opinions? It's the American way, pal. Decide how you feel, and don't let anyone sway you another way. At least I'm not a wishy washy Canadian! ;)

I say the last part in jest at least.

[ErickMontreal]

but it's vibrant. All of those pictures of Montreal it looks like a ghost town. And that graffiti you posted is some quality shit that a lot of people would consider art. Not like those lame ass tags in Montreal pictures.

Montreal is all but a ghost town.

If Montreal is well-known for something, it's the vibrancy.

It is ignorance to speak about something you, without a shadow of a doubt, do not know well (or at all).

[NYaMtl]

I'm going to reply to every person who continues to make an issue of this. I think it is run down and ugly, that's the way I'm going to think, and you aren't going to change my opinion. It has nothing to do with urbinity, but more a lack of regard and civic pride...

Why would you insist on maintaining this position when you admit that you barely saw the city? Is that why you're ignoring my posts?

I don't care if you're sticking to your guns, I'm just trying to see if you can admit there are parts of the city other than those fugly few blocks you saw--places where civic pride is not just evident, it is le mode de vie Montrealais. Your accusations are just remarkable to the point of being mind-boggling, particularly considering where you come from. Montréal looks great (except at the beginning of spring) through virtually the entire city limits and without any HOAs levying fines and forcing people to clean up.

I could sit here and try to explain why attitudes toward graffiti in this city might be different than in others (a lack of a real gang presence in most quarters plus some genuinely talented street artists might have something to do with it). I'm not even going to touch the "run down" argument, it's so absurd. You already are ignoring my queries as to whether or not you recognize that you are basing your opinion on a limited sample of one of the (former) worst neighborhoods around the city. Anything anybody is trying to rationally engage you in dialog is met with "nuh uh, I'm right, you're defensive, and you won't change my mind."

And then you add that Kensington Market, which is arguably in worse shape than the Plateau but with similar street life and vibrancy, is awesome. That photo has overhead wires, garbage, and graffiti (gasp!).

So, you are either a moron or a troll. Or you got gypped by a hooker on Ste-Catherine and forever have a grudge against our ugly, run-down city.

It's incredible, I think I agree with Kool maudit's assessment, particularly since Vicelord John's retort was "Nuh uh." I would love to meet someone who thinks Outremont is run down and ugly, or talk to someone who insists Westmounters have no civic pride.

[Vicelord John]

You're right. I'm basing my opinion of Montreal on my visit to that neighborhood, as well as the pictures in this post which look better than what I remember, but not a lot better. Also, Montreal can't keep a baseball team and I remember reading many many stories about how awful that stadium is and how it is in complete disrepair (retractable roof broke so instead of fixing it they just locked it in place) which speaks of negligence. See there is a pattern of apathy and negligence which obviously has made it's way across international borders and all the way to the southwest.

I love Canada and I would love to spend my Summers in Vancouver or Toronto, but Montreal was just more grit than I can deal with, and I can deal with a lot... hell, I play basketball on 22nd and Wabash in Chicago every summer. The thing is though, Vancouver is vibrant, dense (the densest city in North America) and ridiculously beautiful and clean. I know it's all new construction, but it's not hard to show a little damn pride and keep clean looking clean.

[NYaMtl]

I should be ashamed of standing by my beliefs and opinions? It's the American way, pal. Decide how you feel, and don't let anyone sway you another way. At least I'm not a wishy washy Canadian! ;)

I say the last part in jest at least.

An ugly, run-down ghost town according to Vicelord John:
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4070/4366592169_e20d31ce94_b.jpg
(from Cirrus's awesome tour of Montreal in 2009 (http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=178738&highlight=Montreal))

:haha: I think you've really outdone yourself in absurdity.

Dude, you were staying in an Econolodge in the remnants of a Victorian slum.

[NYaMtl]

]Also, Montreal can't keep a baseball team and I remember reading many many stories about how awful that stadium is and how it is in complete disrepair (retractable roof broke so instead of fixing it they just locked it in place) which speaks of negligence.

??? What does baseball have to do with it? This is a hockey town. The stadium is not in complete disrepair, it is constantly being improved. It doesn't speak of negligence, it speaks of a serious design flaw. A flexible roof that is supposed to retract into a 50 storey leaning tower (that never worked) in a city where it snows almost every day during winter and gets quite windy?

]The thing is though, Vancouver is vibrant, dense (the densest city in North America) and ridiculously beautiful and clean.

Agreed, Vancouver is beautiful and clean. Good thing you weren't staying in the Downtown East Side, or else Vancouver would be ugly, run-down, and full of heroin addicts and graffiti.

[NYaMtl]

I love Canada and I would love to spend my Summers in Vancouver or Toronto, but Montreal was just more grit than I can deal with, and I can deal with a lot... hell, I play basketball on 22nd and Wabash in Chicago every summer.

Incidentally, I grew up in Chicago and I can attest that there is nothing in Montreal that even comes close to the worst parts of Chicago.

[Vicelord John]

An ugly, run-down ghost town according to Vicelord John:
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4070/4366592169_e20d31ce94_b.jpg
(from Cirrus's awesome tour of Montreal in 2009 (http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=178738&highlight=Montreal))

:haha: I think you've really outdone yourself in absurdity.

Dude, you were staying in an Econolodge in the remnants of a Victorian slum.

Looks ^^^^NOTHING like where I was or the pictures posted in this thread. That picture looks like an amazing eurpoean city!

[NYaMtl]

Looks ^^^^NOTHING like where I was or the pictures posted in this thread. That picture looks like an amazing eurpoean city!

:haha: Next time you are in town let me know, I'll invite you to have this ridiculous argument over a cold pint. If the weather is shite, I'll be in Vancouver...

[kool maudit]

why do you hate the french?

[flar]

but it's vibrant. All of those pictures of Montreal it looks like a ghost town. And that graffiti you posted is some quality shit that a lot of people would consider art. Not like those lame ass tags in Montreal pictures.

This is part of the same neighbourhood: http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=180439

I made two completely different threads for The Plateau. This one is about the residential architecture so I tried to avoid getting people in the photos. I actually had to wait around a lot for people to pass because all of these streets have more people walking around than in most cities. The thread I linked above is St. Denis, one of the commercial streets in the Plateau, which was filled with people on an Easter Sunday afternoon. And I will add that both St. Denis and St. Laurent are even more hopping after the sun goes down.

[flar]

why do you hate the french?

Let's not even go there...

[NYaMtl]

This is part of the same neighbourhood: http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=180439

I made two completely different threads for The Plateau. This one is about the residential architecture so I tried to avoid getting people in the photos. I actually had to wait around a lot for people to pass because all of these streets have more people walking around than in most cities. The thread I linked above is St. Denis, one of the commercial streets in the Plateau, which was filled with people on an Easter Sunday afternoon. And I will add that both St. Denis and St. Laurent are even more hopping after the sun goes down.

And back to these amazing photos--thank you flar. You've inspired me to go for a nice walk this afternoon!

[flar]

Forgive me, but I'm going to change the topic at hand. When was the plateau developed? Obviously that's a complicated question, but would anyone know when the rowhouses around Square St. Louis were built for instance?

These buildings range from Late Victorian to early 20th Century. The stuff towards the end of the thread is further east (St. Hubert) and definitely post-Victorian. A large part of Montreal looks like the pics toward the end, almost every street is lined with double or triple decker plexes.

[arlekin_m]

Great pics.

I'm loving the couple rowhouses with turret-like finishings up top... I wonder, what style could those be?