[theWatusi]

Check out the link for the list.

http://jalopnik.com/5511702/eleven-gorgeous-train-stations-lost-to-the-wrecking-ball


n 1963, America learned a painful lesson when Pennsylvania Station, an architectural treasure that Senator Daniel Moynihan described as "the best thing in our city," was torn down and replaced with a dreary complex that includes an office building and Madison Square Garden. The rail station, to this day the nation's busiest, was moved underground into a claustrophobic warren of artificially lit passageways and bleak waiting rooms. While there has been an active campaign since the 1990's to rectify the mistake by creating a new and worthy station a block away, the $1 billion-plus project remains stuck in political gridlock.

But the sad saga of Penn was by no means an isolated incident. Almost like a rite of passage, cities across the country embraced the era of Interstates, Big Macs, and suburban sprawl by tearing down their train depots. (Frequently, they just did the Joni Mitchell thing and put up a parking lot.) But time and experience are showing that train stations are vital organs in a healthy city. The lesson is especially relevant of late as cities around the country face the challenge of rebuilding infrastructure for regional high-speed rail. Chicago — once blessed with an abundance of grand stations -– is today kicking around ideas for a new high-speed rail depot.

[M II A II R II K]

How would the Historical Landmark status play today to prevent this from happening again, and couldn't that status protect them in the past if it was harder to attain that status back then...

[mfastx]

Houston used to have a few grand stations (one remains incorporated into Minute Maid Park), but they were torn down and now we have something that looks like a post office.

[electricron]

Houston used to have a few grand stations (one remains incorporated into Minute Maid Park), but they were torn down and now we have something that looks like a post office.

This is what an urban post office looks like.
http://www.txgenweb.org/postcards/Towns/Houston/HoustonPostOffice.jpg

This is what Houston's Amtrak train station looks like.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e5/HoustonAmtrakStation.JPG/800px-HoustonAmtrakStation.JPG

I don't think today's Houston train station looks anywhere close to a US post office located in the central business district of any major US city.

[PhillyRising]

Philadelphia is very lucky to have 30th Street Station still standing and be quite the busy place.

[theWatusi]

Those Am-shacks do look like shitty suburban/rural post offices though. Truly disgusting.

[mfastx]

This is what an urban post office looks like.
http://www.txgenweb.org/postcards/Towns/Houston/HoustonPostOffice.jpg

This is what Houston's Amtrak train station looks like.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e5/HoustonAmtrakStation.JPG/800px-HoustonAmtrakStation.JPG

I don't think today's Houston train station looks anywhere close to a US post office located in the central business district of any major US city.

I never said a post office in Houston. I was going to say that it looks like "a small town post office" but I wasn't trying to be excessively wordy. I guess that kinda defeated the purpose. :haha:

[TonyAnderson]

The Memphis one (#2) almost makes me sick, especially seeing what's there now.

[hammersklavier]

Build $hitty post offices, get $hitty ridership. The proof's in the pudding.

[ardecila]

Yeah, because the ugly station is what's keeping Amtrak ridership down in Houston... :rolleyes:

[LMich]

Actually, it is a self-fulfilling prophecy. You move your station to a dump, and you're going to automatically lose a huge chunk of riders who barely felt comfortable coming down to the grand stations in their dilapidated states. Just because ridership fell didn't mean Amtrack and municipalities had to move their stations to the dumpiest conditions imaginable. There are other ways to cut corners without tucking the service into the dankest of corners. Of course, the move to these type of facilities isn't the only, or even the most significant reason for the drop in passengers over the decades for most station. What it means, though, is that it certainly kills any possibility to grow service in a meaningful way at these locations. It's the nail in the coffin.

[Mr Downtown]

How would the Historical Landmark status play today to prevent this from happening again, and couldn't that status protect them in the past if it was harder to attain that status back then...

I can't think of any significant stations lost since 1978, when the Penn Central case validated local preservation laws—though Detroit's Michigan Central Station probably will be lost. Train stations are tough to reuse. They're often in strange parts of town, cost a fortune to light and heat, and have huge spaces ill-suited to today's travel habits.

Amshacks are often the result of stations not fitting Amtrak's route system very well. The city's grand old station may have been a terminal rather than a run-through station, may have required backing into, or may be on a different set of tracks than Amtrak uses.

[Yankee]

Grand Central Station in Chicago was just one of 8-9 magnificent stations in Chicago that was torn down:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/30/1963_Grand_Central_Station.jpg/780px-1963_Grand_Central_Station.jpg
wikipedia

Go here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_Central_Station_%28Chicago%29

and at the bottom of the page there is a list of former Chicago train stations.

[BTinSF]

Am I the only person here who remembers and actually used the old Penn Station in NYC? Just wondering.

Regarding "Amshacks", Amtrak can put up a decent spartan/efficient modern station when it wants to. For reasons I can't explain, they (or somebody--maybe it was the state of CA) put one up in Emeryville, CA (that's just across the Bay Bridge and the station serves the central Bay Area including San Francisco):

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8a/Emeryville_Amtrak_station_November-2005.jpg
Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emeryville_(Amtrak_station)

http://transitorienteddevelopment.dot.ca.gov/images/photo/423.jpg
Source: http://transitorienteddevelopment.dot.ca.gov/images/photo/423.jpg

http://img.groundspeak.com/waymarking/large/db2a3a99-410f-4f5a-a959-5826354b2e68.jpg
Source: http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://img.groundspeak.com/waymarking/display/db2a3a99-410f-4f5a-a959-5826354b2e68.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.waymarking.com/waymarks/WM3ZYH_Emeryville_Amtrak_Station_Emeryville_California&h=300&w=400&sz=91&tbnid=bBHbKSyUR_LdXM:&tbnh=93&tbnw=124&prev=/images%3Fq%3DEmeryville%2BAmtrak%2Bstation%2Bphoto&usg=__TqwU3IeDWP2t6mt7juoYN3qkABk=&ei=NlzCS7iZIYzvngfwvZT5CQ&sa=X&oi=image_result&resnum=3&ct=image&ved=0CAoQ9QEwAg

It replaced the old 16th St Station in Oakland which was admittedly far grander, but in a terrible neighborhood and seismically unsafe:

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3327/3207562717_1d3efc4df3_o.jpg
Source: http://www.flickr.com/photos/efo/3207562717/

[Policy Wonk]

Amshacks are often the result of stations not fitting Amtrak's route system very well. The city's grand old station may have been a terminal rather than a run-through station, may have required backing into, or may be on a different set of tracks than Amtrak uses.

http://www.riverfronttimes.com/2004-12-08/news/save-the-amshack/

Who among us can forget his first arrival at St. Louis' own Ellis Island, the Amshack? The majestic train station, so rich in history (thought to be the oldest temporary depot in the world), has stamped a solid impression on all who've passed through its gates. Headed south from Chicago, you chugged over the Mississippi, rolled by the Arch and arrived at the doors of the two-tone brown structure that perfectly personifies the St. Louis of its era: a double-wide mobile home.

[Mr Downtown]

Grand Central Station in Chicago was just one of 8-9 magnificent stations in Chicago that was torn down

Chicago had six intercity passenger stations. Two remain standing.

Grand Central was a magnificent building, but it was a stub-end terminal for a couple of very minor railroads (in Chicago travel). At the end, it served only six trains a day; averaging about 35 passengers per train.

[ardecila]

Chicago had six intercity passenger stations. Two remain standing.

That's sort of a judgment call. Union Station is the only historic terminal stationhouse remaining in Chicago, and even it lost its grand concourse. Ogilvie/Northwestern only has the viaduct from the old station. Dearborn still exists - somewhat, and not as a rail station. LaSalle Street and Millennium have been completely replaced, but they compare in size and scope to what existed previously (although I don't think Millennium/Van Buren ever served intercity trains).

[LMich]

--though Detroit's Michigan Central Station probably will be lost.

Unless the city finds some kind of magic pot of money, the station isn't coming down. One of the few silver linings of being in what is effectively a bankrupt city with such a HUGE train station is that the city simply doesn't have the money (or couldn't justify borrowing and spending money) to tear the station down. Just as importantly, the station is owned by a billionaire who's made it clear he'll leave it to rot until nature takes it down, herself, before he'll shell out any money for demolition. In the strangest of ways, MCS is actually decently safe from the wrecking ball despite the wish of the city, recently, to want to see it brought down.

[Cirrus]

Wow. The link in OP is a blatant plagiarization of a post from Infrastructurist last year (http://www.infrastructurist.com/2009/06/22/11-beautiful-train-stations-that-fell-to-the-wrecking-ball/)... literally ripped and copy-pasted word for word.

[Segun]

This is what an urban post office looks like.
http://www.txgenweb.org/postcards/Towns/Houston/HoustonPostOffice.jpg

This is what Houston's Amtrak train station looks like.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e5/HoustonAmtrakStation.JPG/800px-HoustonAmtrakStation.JPG

I don't think today's Houston train station looks anywhere close to a US post office located in the central business district of any major US city.

Whats worse about this station is that they had the nerve to display a little mini-exhibit on the walls showing what was located there before.

[BTinSF]

:previous:

The shocking thing about the Houston station for riders on the Sunset Limited headed east is that you encounter it and its cousin in ugliness in San Antonio after stopping at the very nice, and still grand, El Paso station:

http://www.doe.mtu.edu/~ehgroth/website/California/sunset/46amtraktexas020.jpghttp://www.doe.mtu.edu/~ehgroth/website/California/sunset/49amtraktexas028.jpg
Source: http://www.doe.mtu.edu/~ehgroth/website/California/sunset/

[Centropolis]

http://www.riverfronttimes.com/2004-12-08/news/save-the-amshack/

Who among us can forget his first arrival at St. Louis' own Ellis Island, the Amshack? The majestic train station, so rich in history (thought to be the oldest temporary depot in the world), has stamped a solid impression on all who've passed through its gates. Headed south from Chicago, you chugged over the Mississippi, rolled by the Arch and arrived at the doors of the two-tone brown structure that perfectly personifies the St. Louis of its era: a double-wide mobile home.

The St. Louis Amshack is history, not sure what the relevance is...replaced with a multimodal - though admittedly kind of silly considering our Union Station is still standing and in good shape and has its own light rail stop.

[Mr Downtown]

That Houston station actually appears to be a handsome little mid-century modern structure. What was it before Amtrak took it over?

[the urban politician]

That Houston station actually appears to be a handsome little mid-century modern structure. What was it before Amtrak took it over?

:koko:

[Cirrus]

Let's make this a catch-all thread for pictures of train stations that no longer exist.

Washington has been lucky to keep our beautiful Union Station, but when it was built back in 1908, it replaced two older stations that were both handsome.

This one, owned by the Pennsylvania Railroad, was the location of President James Garfield's assassination in 1881. The building was located in the middle of the National Mall and was torn down when Union Station was built in order to improve the park.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3377/3421670398_20be7aa508_o.jpg
DC Public Library Commons (http://www.flickr.com/photos/dcplcommons/3421670398/sizes/o/)

The Baltimore and Ohio Station was torn down in order to make way for Union Station, which occupies the same location.
http://www.washingtonunionstation.com/images/full/15--bando--front.jpg
source: Library of Congress (http://www.washingtonunionstation.com/images.html)

[SFUVancouver]

Vancouver is the terminus of the Canadian Pacific Railway and it built this little beauty of a station to commemorate its completion of the Canadian trans-continental railway.

http://www.godwinbooks.com/images/cpr.jpg
Source (http://www.godwinbooks.com/eternalforestsample.html)

It is worth noting that the City of Vancouver was untouched old growth forest a decade before this photo was taken.

The station was torn down and a larger replacement was built:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/87/Vancouver_Waterfront_Station.jpg
Source (http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Vancouver_Waterfront_Station.jpg)

This is now known as Waterfront Station and it is the transit hub for downtown Vancouver. Three SkyTrain light metro lines have their teminus beneath the station and they connect with a passenger ferry, commuter rail, and local buses. The place is as essential and bustling as ever.

http://pricetags.files.wordpress.com/2009/08/cl-waterfront-entry-hall.jpg
Source (http://via-architecture.blogspot.com/2009_08_01_archive.html)


Vancouver also managed to save a second of our three great downtown train stations; the Central Pacific Station.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/71/Pacific_Central_Dawn.jpg/800px-Pacific_Central_Dawn.jpg
Source (http://cascadiarising.blogspot.com/2008_01_01_archive.html)

This is the likely terminus of any high speed rail corridor between Vancouver, Seattle and Portland. It is already the terminus of the VIA Rail (Canada's Amtrak) trans-continential railway and Amtrak's Cascades line and serves as the city's inter-city bus station.

The one we lost, the Great Northen, was a real loss and it was right next door to the one above:

http://www.wcra.org/features/images/station1.jpg
Source (http://www.wcra.org/features/station-street.htm)

[Policy Wonk]

The St. Louis Amshack is history, not sure what the relevance is...replaced with a multimodal - though admittedly kind of silly considering our Union Station is still standing and in good shape and has its own light rail stop.

Uhh... did you read the article?

It is a running joke from 2004 - and the Amshack itself is still standing. This is the second part. http://www.riverfronttimes.com/2004-12-15/news/o-amshack/

and even though replaced I am pretty sure Amshack I and Amshack II are still both standing, not sure what the original is being used for.

[arkhitektor]

I don't think this counts because both of Salt Lake's old grand stations still exist even though they are no longer used as train stations:
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3194/2672515309_c90f3fc8f6.jpg

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_567aVEoiH00/SlDkXSUSLRI/AAAAAAAAAbI/0IgRo46p4Fg/s400/2009-06-29_031_RioGrandeDepot-east_1000lr.jpg

But our current Amtrak station has to be one of the worst anywhere:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/1c/Salt_Lake_City_Amtrak_Station_Rear.JPG/800px-Salt_Lake_City_Amtrak_Station_Rear.JPG

Its a gray double-wide modular trailer and three shipping containers.

[ardecila]

Chicago's Lost Stations...

Grand Central Station
-Located at Harrison and Wells
-Torn down in 1971 due to abysmally low ridership
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2507/3832545567_cc577df564.jpg
flickr/Felinefeeder (http://www.flickr.com/photos/41487256@N07/3832545567/sizes/m/)

Northwestern Station
-Located at Madison and Canal
-Torn down in 1984 for Citicorp Center, a new office tower/train station building
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2451/4156535041_4c3febcbbc.jpg
flickr/Eddie from Chicago (http://www.flickr.com/photos/eddie-chicago-railfan/4156535041/sizes/m/)

Beautiful Flickr set of photos of Northwestern Terminal (http://www.flickr.com/photos/41487256@N07/sets/72157622072175858/)

Central Station
-Located at 11th and Michigan
-Torn down in 1974 due to neglect and Amtrak's shift to Union Station
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3477/3832962022_71303ed7ae.jpg
flickr/Felinefeeder (http://www.flickr.com/photos/41487256@N07/3832962022/sizes/m/in/set-72157621947255693/)

Union Station Concourse
-Located at Adams/Canal
-Torn down in 1969 for Gateway Center III (http://www.emporis.com/application/?nav=building&lng=3&id=gatewaycenteriii-chicago-il-usa). Concourse spaces remain underground, but without a grand atrium.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3546/3665888620_d2ca155439.jpg
flickr/davidwilson1949 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/davidwilson1949/3665888620/sizes/m/)
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2668/3834358897_9bc8b28167.jpg
flickr/Felinefeeder (http://www.flickr.com/photos/41487256@N07/3834358897/sizes/m/)

I'm not even gonna get into LaSalle Street, which has had four previous station buildings on the same site, or any of the Victorian-era railroad stations.

[BTinSF]

But our current Amtrak station has to be one of the worst anywhere:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/1c/Salt_Lake_City_Amtrak_Station_Rear.JPG/800px-Salt_Lake_City_Amtrak_Station_Rear.JPG

Its a gray double-wide modular trailer and three shipping containers.

I had the misfortune of hanging around that station one evening for about an hour and a half after dark waiting for the westbound California Zephyr. It was truly cold and truly desolate. Yuck!!

[LMich]

Its a gray double-wide modular trailer and three shipping containers.

I'll take your gray, double-wide modular trailer and three shipping containers, and raise you an honest-to-goodness Michigan State University storage shed-turned-train station:

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1294/1366886341_8e0acaf317.jpg
rwelder (http://www.flickr.com/photos/58775530@N00/1366886341/)

Most of my city's historic train stations still exist, both turned into restaurants, but only one of which is still in use. There had been hope to get TIGER funding to build a new Amtrak station on the site of the one above with a parking garage, but we didn't get the funding.

Here's the old Grand Trank Western Railroad Depot in Lansing. It's currently empty. Why Amtrak didn't pick this station along the line has always been a sore point, especially since as you can see parking isn't exactly and issue:

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/97/209230773_b8077fbf52_o.jpg
(my photo)

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2226/2238713763_fe184b36d0.jpg
Railhead 799 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/railhead799/2238713763/)

The other existing passenger station is the old Union Depot (later Michigan Central/Pere Marquette Depot) on the eastern edge of downtown:

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/131/359071581_7e8ac804a9.jpg
ncphotoaday (http://www.flickr.com/photos/29975793@N00/359071581/)

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3156/2781430657_2c3722a8d3.jpg
petitshoo (http://www.flickr.com/photos/petitshoo/2781430657/)

[BTinSF]

Figured I might as well post a picture of the Deland, FL station (built 1918). I have been told it was saved and refurbished by the local high school woodshop class:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b0/Deland_Amtrak_front01.jpg/800px-Deland_Amtrak_front01.jpg
Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DeLand_(Amtrak_station)

[Centropolis]

Chicago's Lost Stations...

Grand Central Station
-Located at Harrison and Wells
-Torn down in 1971 due to abysmally low ridership
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2507/3832545567_cc577df564.jpg
flickr/Felinefeeder (http://www.flickr.com/photos/41487256@N07/3832545567/sizes/m/)

Northwestern Station
-Located at Madison and Canal
-Torn down in 1984 for Citicorp Center, a new office tower/train station building
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2451/4156535041_4c3febcbbc.jpg
flickr/Eddie from Chicago (http://www.flickr.com/photos/eddie-chicago-railfan/4156535041/sizes/m/)

Beautiful Flickr set of photos of Northwestern Terminal (http://www.flickr.com/photos/41487256@N07/sets/72157622072175858/)

Central Station
-Located at 11th and Michigan
-Torn down in 1974 due to neglect and Amtrak's shift to Union Station
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3477/3832962022_71303ed7ae.jpg
flickr/Felinefeeder (http://www.flickr.com/photos/41487256@N07/3832962022/sizes/m/in/set-72157621947255693/)

Union Station Concourse
-Located at Adams/Canal
-Torn down in 1969 for Gateway Center III (http://www.emporis.com/application/?nav=building&lng=3&id=gatewaycenteriii-chicago-il-usa). Concourse spaces remain underground, but without a grand atrium.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3546/3665888620_d2ca155439.jpg
flickr/davidwilson1949 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/davidwilson1949/3665888620/sizes/m/)
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2668/3834358897_9bc8b28167.jpg
flickr/Felinefeeder (http://www.flickr.com/photos/41487256@N07/3834358897/sizes/m/)

I'm not even gonna get into LaSalle Street, which has had four previous station buildings on the same site, or any of the Victorian-era railroad stations.

wow. Union Station - strange place, because parts of it are so grand, then, when i'm boarding the train in an unnecessarily bunched que underground, I swear the low ceiling is coming down on me. 'course, two times two winters in a row I've come down with the flu in Chicago and have been nearly hallucinating on the way back...damn 5 am bars.

[theWatusi]

Here's the former PRR Broad Street Station in Philly. It was replaced by the PRR's "Philadelphia Improvements" in the 20's and 30's when 30th Street Station was built for intercity trains and Suburban Station for commuter trains. It was finally demolished in 1953.

http://www.infrastructurist.com/wp-content/uploads/philadelphia-broadst-138288pv-bis.jpg
source (http://www.infrastructurist.com/2009/06/25/6-more-great-train-stations-lost-to-the-wrecking-ball/)

http://www.geh.org/taschen/m197812670003MP.jpg
source (http://www.geh.org/taschen/htmlsrc15/m197812670003MP_ful.html)

[Muji]

Here's another one of Philadelphia's lost stations, the much smaller Baltimore and Ohio station built at 24th and Chestnut. Built 1886-1888 by the firm of Frank Furness: Furness, Evans & Co, who went on to design a major addition to the aforemented Broad Street Station. Most of what you see in the first photo TheWatusi posted is the Furness expansion.

Source: Historic American Buildings Survey (http://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/D?hh:1:./temp/~ammem_th70::)

http://memory.loc.gov/pnp/habshaer/pa/pa1000/pa1097/photos/138632pv.jpg

http://memory.loc.gov/pnp/habshaer/pa/pa1000/pa1097/photos/138627pv.jpg
The station was demolished in 1963, it's now the site of a large condo tower.

[jodelli]

You've all seen pics of Detroit's Michigan Central Terminal.
The stone wall in this picture was once part of a Canadian Pacific passenger station across the river, one of two railway cuts linked by ferry to Detroit in former days.

Windsor's Michigan Central station was inland on the next railway cut to the west, and is linked by a tunnel to Detroit's MCS.
Edit: the Canadian MCS is no longer there.


Notice the filled in access doorway now leading to nowhere.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3018/2825572054_11d33d5bc1_b.jpg

[BVictor1]

Chicago had six intercity passenger stations. Two remain standing.

Grand Central was a magnificent building, but it was a stub-end terminal for a couple of very minor railroads (in Chicago travel). At the end, it served only six trains a day; averaging about 35 passengers per train.

That doesn't mean that the building shouldn't have been saved and turned into a hotel. Although I know that the neighborhood was fairly crappy, the land south of the station could have been redeveloped.

[ardecila]

I believe the building already was a hotel; many large train stations were built with hotels on top of them, as well as a floor or two of railroad offices.

Dearborn Station was saved successfully; the storefront space on Polk is prime real-estate, although the spaces around the interior atrium are pretty deserted.

[Ragnar]

Looking at some of these "Amshacks" (LOL) in Houston, Salt Lake, etc., I thank God that L.A. still has Union Station.

[WillPostPix]

:previous: yes where would the west coast be without its central hub of transit of constant and mass transit for its most impersonal flow of city visitors. plus, where would they have filmed the most pivotal scene of "drag me to hell"?

[Ragnar]

:previous: yes where would the west coast be without its central hub of transit of constant and mass transit for its most impersonal flow of city visitors.

Parlez-vous anglais?

[MolsonExport]

world's most depressing thread. :(

[WillPostPix]

Oui, I parlez anglais. Sorry, I forgot this was a grammar AND architecture forum. Apologies if that was off. That may have been a subliminal reference to the bloated, arrogant nature of LA's primary industry and how that has created a seeming need for shallow-yet-endless traffic rather than a dedicated system. Granted I live in New York, we get just as many shallow visitors out here. And our transit system isn't much better but at least it's meant to be navigable and has an actual grid.

[Mr Downtown]

That doesn't mean that the building shouldn't have been saved and turned into a hotel. Although I know that the neighborhood was fairly crappy, the land south of the station could have been redeveloped.

Except it would have sat in a netherworld of paper warehouses, garment district leftovers, and post office trucks for 40 years before any business traveler would ever have considered staying there. The big waiting room and a few offices were all there was to Grand Central Chicago. There wouldn't have been any place to put sleeping rooms unless you built a new motel structure under the trainshed the way they did in St. Louis.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/30/1963_Grand_Central_Station.jpg/300px-1963_Grand_Central_Station.jpg
wikipedia

The land south of the station was redeveloped, as River City, but the first phase ended up being taken back by the lender, so additional phases didn't seem like a good idea.

[11thFloor]

:previous: the point is that if anyone cared, they would have found a way to make it happen or at least seem feasible in an actual real-life way. Let's face it. The reason this didn't happen is because people didn't care enough to try to work something out when it was proposed. If you want it, you build off of any actual proposal to make it really happen. If it doesn't, it's not wanted. That's obvious. Case closed.

[Ragnar]

Oui, I parlez anglais. Sorry, I forgot this was a grammar AND architecture forum. Apologies if that was off. That may have been a subliminal reference to the bloated, arrogant nature of LA's primary industry and how that has created a seeming need for shallow-yet-endless traffic rather than a dedicated system. Granted I live in New York, we get just as many shallow visitors out here. And our transit system isn't much better but at least it's meant to be navigable and has an actual grid.

Ah ok. Well, it doesn't make Union Station any less beautiful in my eyes.

[jg6544]

:previous:

The shocking thing about the Houston station for riders on the Sunset Limited headed east is that you encounter it and its cousin in ugliness in San Antonio after stopping at the very nice, and still grand, El Paso station:

http://www.doe.mtu.edu/~ehgroth/website/California/sunset/46amtraktexas020.jpghttp://www.doe.mtu.edu/~ehgroth/website/California/sunset/49amtraktexas028.jpg
Source: http://www.doe.mtu.edu/~ehgroth/website/California/sunset/

I thought Amtrak used the old Southern Pacific depot in San Antonio and it is rather nice; at least it used to be.

The real tragedy is that Amtrak abandoned the old T&P depot in Ft. Worth, which is an art deco treasure.

[Mr Downtown]

The reason [conversion of Chicago's Grand Central to a hotel] didn't happen is because people didn't care enough to try to work something out when it was proposed. If you want it, you build off of any actual proposal to make it really happen. If it doesn't, it's not wanted. That's obvious. Case closed.

I don't have any idea what you're talking about. No one ever proposed converting Grand Central into anything. The passenger trains quit running, the railroad was hoping to sell the land, so they tore down the building in 1971.

[DrJoe]

Toronto's original Union Station.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/9d/View_of_Union_Station_from_water_in_1888.jpg
Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:View_of_Union_Station_from_water_in_1888.jpg

It was torn down and replaced by...

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f7/Union_Station%2C_Toronto-2.jpg/752px-Union_Station%2C_Toronto-2.jpg
Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Union_Station,_Toronto-2.jpg

A loss or a gain? Would be nice to have both that's for sure.

[11thFloor]

I don't have any idea what you're talking about. No one ever proposed converting Grand Central into anything. The passenger trains quit running, the railroad was hoping to sell the land, so they tore down the building in 1971.

You probably don't have any idea what I'm talking about because because you rewrote what I wrote [by inserting your interpretation in a bracket]. I was referring to River City. I have no idea what happened with Grand Central, except that maybe there was an idea elsewhere of magically turning it from some kind of dead transit zone into a place with a bit more life, but I haven't heard anything about any proposals either.

[Mr Downtown]

OK, then, what point are you trying to make about River City?

[11thFloor]

The reasons why River City didn't take off:

River City should have been the culmination of Goldberg's vision of "a city-within-a city," but politics and power-brokering prevented the plan from being realized. BGA envisioned a high-density site of mixed-use skyscrapers 72-stories tall, linked by skybridges and containing everything from schools to shopping centers. Bending to political pressure about density and unable to get the zoning variance needed to proceed, the design was modified extensively over a ten-year planning period. As Goldberg described it, he unfolded the towers and laid them on their end.

http://www.bertrandgoldberg.org/works/river_city.html

Basically, the failure of River City (in contrast to the more-successful Marina City) was back-and-forth negotiations about how it should be used, causing constant remodification that eventually made it impossible for Goldberg to implement his earlier design in a way that would make it useful or relevant within the city landscape. It would have been more successful as a "city within a city" if there had emerged one clear and lucid proposal for how it should be built, rather than getting bogged down within constant political bickering in the background on the reasons and necessity for remodifications to the design itself. Hence it languished, and hence also stymied Goldberg.

[ardecila]

If Goldberg was so committed to his radical riverside utopia that he could not accept community input, then I'm glad it wasn't built. Playing the politics game is just part of doing business in Chicago.

You're absolutely right that various politicians had pet schemes for the railyards land; it was pitched as a massive replacement for Union Station, it was pitched for the campus of UIC, a football stadium, so on, and so forth.

The only ones who were able to do anything massive with the land were Draper and Kramer, who built Dearborn Park. I'm not knowledgable about the long, tortuous process they went through to get Dearborn Park built, but there is a pretty comprehensive book (http://www.amazon.com/At-Home-Loop-Community-Chicagos/dp/0809322250/ref=ntt_at_ep_dpt_2) on the subject.

[fogandrail]

If Goldberg was so committed to his radical riverside utopia that he could not accept community input, then I'm glad it wasn't built. Playing the politics game is just part of doing business in Chicago.

You're absolutely right that various politicians had pet schemes for the railyards land; it was pitched as a massive replacement for Union Station, it was pitched for the campus of UIC, a football stadium, so on, and so forth.

The only ones who were able to do anything massive with the land were Draper and Kramer, who built Dearborn Park. I'm not knowledgable about the long, tortuous process they went through to get Dearborn Park built, but there is a pretty comprehensive book (http://www.amazon.com/At-Home-Loop-Community-Chicagos/dp/0809322250/ref=ntt_at_ep_dpt_2) on the subject.

If you read anything about Goldberg's architectural career, you'll realize that being "committed to one particular structural form" is basically antithetical to his ideas on innovation. Look at Marine Park and the system of complexity there: mixed-use structures for differing functions is not a bad idea at all, because it allows you to incorporate all of the different parts of city life within a smaller landscape. It's overwhelmingly innovative but it also takes a good deal of work and time just to review and communicate within an organized fashion.

"Playing the politics game" is part of doing business everywhere. I don't think the issue was Goldberg's willingness to play the political game. I don't know if River City was too radical a utopia or not, but I don't think it was meant to be isolated like a bubble-city, but rather contribute to the city landscape in a similar style. It's not a Goldberg vs. Draper & Kramer argument, it's about that background power brokerage, too much political chatter without clear methods of design, simultaneously making one massive undertaking a longer and more tortuous project than it ought to be and setting back the possibility of allowing multifunctional and innovative projects to make for a better, more interesting, and progressive city life.

[Mr Downtown]

Goldberg proposed the enormous River City complex just as Dearborn Park was struggling to sell its units and new projects were coming online in Printers Row. The Plan Commission felt that to approve such an enormous project in an area without transit infrastructure would be a mistake in its own right and would also threaten the successful redevelopment of Dearborn Park and Printers Row. There were no NIMBY protesters or behind-the-scenes political games as far as I know; it's simply that Miles Berger and other Plan Commissioners thought Goldberg's scheme would blow out the struggling flame of South Loop redevelopment. I think history proved them correct.

[11thFloor]

Goldberg proposed the enormous River City complex just as Dearborn Park was struggling to sell its units and new projects were coming online in Printers Row. The Plan Commission felt that to approve such an enormous project in an area without transit infrastructure would be a mistake in its own right and would also threaten the successful redevelopment of Dearborn Park and Printers Row. There were no NIMBY protesters or behind-the-scenes political games as far as I know; it's simply that Miles Berger and other Plan Commissioners thought Goldberg's scheme would blow out the struggling flame of South Loop redevelopment. I think history proved them correct.

I have a hard time agreeing any time the phrase, "history proved them correct" is used. History never proves that one idea was better or worse than the other. It reminds me for a few reasons of this quote by Thomas Edison:

"I'd put my money on the sun and solar energy. What a source of power! I hope we don't have to wait till oil and coal run out before we tackle that."

Did history prove him wrong or right? He was right about solar energy; if he'd put his money on it then, he might have died a very broke man. Or would he have? Maybe if Thomas Edison had invested more in solar energy, then others would have been inspired to do so as well, and we wouldn't be in the mess we're in today.

In terms of River City, correct as you might be about this being more about the Plans Commission debating amongst itself rather than simple NIMBYism, it's also a matter of perspective. There are ways of solving transit issues by looking outside of the box and figuring out how to create new possibilities rather than at the expense of such a vast project. Of course, it's also a matter of taste, and given my own personal and aesthetic preferences, I would have preferred work continue on River City but with a better system of transit. To each his own, I guess.

[Travis007]

Toronto's original Union Station.


Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:View_of_Union_Station_from_water_in_1888.jpg

It was torn down and replaced by...


Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Union_Station,_Toronto-2.jpg

A loss or a gain? Would be nice to have both that's for sure.

Our current station is still very nice, but the first and second incarnations were both beautiful and would rank in the top 10 for Toronto's greatest architectural losses through the years. The clock/peak towers (w/e they're called) were a good representation of our city's Victorian architectural era. The train sheds were vintage industrial age, those would have been fascinating if preserved.


Here's an article with concise history and photos of Union Station:

http://torontothenandnow.blogspot.com/2011/03/21-union-station-then-and-now.html

[BnSwiss]

i too have had to wait at that station for 2 hours waiting for an east bound california zephyr to chicago it was a fun ride after that horrible station im so sad that they didnt keep it at the rio grande building which is honetly across the street from that place.

[Nexis4Jersey]

Alot of our stations that were demolished or closed due to low ridership will be rebuilt later this decade as part of Urban Renewal projects. Some stations will be converted to Light Rail or Regional Rail...

Ampere
Harrison
North Paterson
Communipaw Terminal as a Light Rail / NY Waterway Station (2025?)
Old Boonton line > all stations will be converted to Light Rail and restored
West Trenton line > all stations are intact and will be restored with West Trenton service
All stations along the Northern Branch will be converted to Light Rail and restored
All Stations along the Bergen - Passaic line will be converted to LRT and restored.

[NYonward]

Here is one from my hometown, Syracuse. Here was the original train station, now Time Warner's HQ in East Syracuse:

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2418/2434122710_909614f647.jpg

I don't remember even using this station also in East Syracuse which was the station following the above one, shown in all its glory here:

http://inlinethumb11.webshots.com/48330/2354066150102906036S600x600Q85.jpg

http://inlinethumb25.webshots.com/9240/2321105920102906036S600x600Q85.jpg


With the new "intermodal station" w/ train and bus service here:

http://www.upstate.edu/medresidency/images/regional_transportation_center.jpg

(note the huge sloping roof, great for all the snow upstate)

[NYonward]

Buffalo is a huge travesty, the original Buffalo Central Terminal:

http://www.urbanghostsmedia.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/Buffalo-Central-Terminal1.jpg

and, wait for it....











Their current "station":

http://www.trainweb.org/usarail/buffalo_exchange1.jpg


The backstory is that they want to bring HSR or redevelop the original BCT, here is more information and I hope they succeed!:

http://buffalocentralterminal.org/

[NYonward]

More depressing pictures!

Rochester, NY had a magnificent station by architect Claude Bragdon:

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5134/5463275409_bd3062726e.jpg

more info here:

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5134/5463275409_bd3062726e.jpg

Which was demolished to put in this beauty:

http://www.trainweb.org/amtrakpix/stationphotos/ROC/roc1.jpg

[NYonward]

Probably the most magnificent train station left undemolished is Detroit's Michigan Central Station:

http://www.infrastructurist.com/wp-content/uploads/michigan-central-station-by-motionblur.png

And the current turd is here:

http://www.marp.org/pix/detroitstation1.jpg

[Beta_Magellan]

There is hope for those of you with Amshacks! Although Milwaukee definitely has its share of lost train and interurban facilities, it also has the benefit of having one of those few stations worth losing—the old Milwaukee Amtrak station (by december.com):

http://www.december.com/places/mke/images/amtrak.jpg

was heavily renovated into this by day (via Third Coast Digest (http://thirdcoastdigest.com))

http://thirdcoastdigest.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/800px-Milwaukee_Intermodal_Station.jpg

and by night (via goddesschess.blogspot.com):

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_SbGSSRU5LeE/Swy8vCf3tpI/AAAAAAAAC_U/_5otkvs3NAI/s1600/Milwaukee+Intermodal+Station+2009.jpg

[hammersklavier]

While the renovation looks...nice...from the photographs there was a certain flair in the Milwaukee Amtrak station's Brutalism.

I find the renovation to be rather blah design-wise.

For one thing it looks like an actual train station and not just some shack by the tracks!

[Beta_Magellan]

You really needed to encounter the old thing in person—although you can’t really tell from the picture, the concrete was pretty dirty, the arches gave the whole building a sort of morose de Chirico vibe from the street level, and the station’s interior was low and had that weird kind of brightly-lit by fluorescents that still felt kind of dark—none of which was helped by the presence of an even more gloomy brutalist post office next door and an elevated freeway across the street (both still there). In terms of passenger experience, the “new” station’s really much better. From the inside (where you can still see elements of the old station’s structure—from fta.dot.gov):

http://www.fta.dot.gov/TRO_5/intermodal4.JPG

I’ll eventually put stuff up about Milwaukee’s other lost terminals (or someone else can beat me to it)—the ones that really were losses.

[Markitect]

Lost Milwaukee Depots

The Milwaukee Road Depot

http://images.wisconsinhistory.org/700003020024/0302000471-l.jpg
http://images.wisconsinhistory.org/700003020024/0302000471-l.jpg

^ View of northern facade along Everett Street, between 4th and 3rd Streets (current site of We Energies Annex).

http://images.wisconsinhistory.org/700004040013/0404000177-l.jpg
http://images.wisconsinhistory.org/700004040013/0404000177-l.jpg

^ A northeastward view from the intersection of Clybourn and 5th Streets, looking toward the trainshed.


The Chicago & North Western Depot

http://images.wisconsinhistory.org/700004040013/0404000174-l.jpg
http://images.wisconsinhistory.org/700004040013/0404000174-l.jpg

^ A southeasterly view, looking toward the main streetside entrance at the foot of Wisconsin Avenue (current site of O'Donnell Park).


The railroads were forced to vacate their depots in the mid-1960s to facilitate planned freeway construction. Both railroads moved into a shared depot (posted earlier) elsewhere downtown. The Milwaukee Road's trackage leading up to its depot would have interfered with the flow of traffic from I-794 on/off ramps and reconfigured surface streets. The depot building itself was not going to be affected by freeway construction, and stood vacant for a very short time until a fire partially destroyed it, and was ultimately torn down completely. Across town, the Chicago & North Western's trainshed and lakefront trackage was slated for a freeway project that was ultimately never built (the Lake Freeway to Park East Freeway connection). Again, the depot building itself could have been spared, but the County could not find a buyer in time, and it was subsequently demolished.

[ardecila]

the concrete was pretty dirty, the arches gave the whole building a sort of morose de Chirico vibe from the street level, and the station’s interior was low and had that weird kind of brightly-lit by fluorescents that still felt kind of dark.

"morose de Chirico vibe" - exactly how I'd describe all of Edward Durell Stone's buildings.

Stone didn't design the Milwaukee station, but he could have. It was actually designed by Edward L. Grieb & Associates, the primary Big Architecture firm in 1960s Milwaukee.

[LMich]

Before the Michigan Central Station/Depot/Terminal in Detroit, was the more centrally located Fort Street Union Station. Built in 1893, it was closed in 1971, and demolished in 1974.

Fort Street Union Station

http://i215.photobucket.com/albums/cc280/buildingsofdetroit/Postcards/UnionDepot.jpg
Link (http://rds.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0PDoX7.KtJNkQ0APgejzbkF/SIG=13ikiphhu/EXP=1305647998/**http%3a//blogs.myspace.com/index.cfm%3ffuseaction=blog.view%26friendId=466875%26blogId=338279893)

Just a few blocks to the south of the Union Station was the original Michigan Central Railroad Depot, built in 1884, closed in 1913, and demolished in 1966.

(Old) Michigan Central Railroad Depot

http://www.forgottendetroit.com/mcs/images/mcs-old.jpg
ForgottenDetroit.com (http://www.forgottendetroit.com/mcs/history.html)

(New) Michigan Central Railroad Depot

http://www.michiganrailroads.com/RRHX/imagesRRHX/Stations/MCRRDepotView%5BJim%20BetancourtColl%5D.jpg
Michiganrailroads.com (http://www.michiganrailroads.com/RRHX/Pictures/Photos/006-010/Photo006D.htm)