[whatnext]

A year ago would anyone have predicted that Bill Vander Zalm would be making a comeback in the public eye, and that the majority of British Columbians would be behind him!? Looks like BC politics are set to get wacky again.:banana:


Bill Vander Zalm rallies the troops at an anti-HST meeting at the Delta Ocean Pointe Resort Thursday.

A petition to repeal the harmonized sales tax would receive much more support across the province than it would need to succeed, a new poll has found, meaning organizers now need to convert public disapproval into actual signatures.

An Angus Reid poll provided exclusively to The Vancouver Sun found that more than 80 per cent of people in the province would sign the petition if given the opportunity...
http://www.vancouversun.com/news/Majority+would+sign+anti+petition+poll/2918399/story.html

[jlousa]

I was a big fan of Socred policy and in retrospect Bill wasn't that bad. It's a shame the party collapsed because of him. Still can't support his current cause though, he's barking up the wrong tree.

[trofirhen]

A year ago would anyone have predicted that Bill Vander Zalm would be making a comeback in the public eye, and that the majority of British Columbians would be behind him!? Looks like BC politics are set to get wacky again.:banana:


Bill Vander Zalm rallies the troops at an anti-HST meeting at the Delta Ocean Pointe Resort Thursday.

A petition to repeal the harmonized sales tax would receive much more support across the province than it would need to succeed, a new poll has found, meaning organizers now need to convert public disapproval into actual signatures.

An Angus Reid poll provided exclusively to The Vancouver Sun found that more than 80 per cent of people in the province would sign the petition if given the opportunity...
http://www.vancouversun.com/news/Majority+would+sign+anti+petition+poll/2918399/story.html

FAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAANTASTIC .... :jester:

[Stingray2004]

Vander Zalm was a right-wing, populist, social conservative, which is an anethma to the moderate BC political scene. That's why everyone was bailing from the Socreds (cabinet resignations, etc) resulting in the 1991 resurgence of the Liberals and the corresponding Socred collapse.

Just one of the Zalm's more loony quips:

"Economic recessions are a heaven-sent blessing for B.C. I think God sent it. It was necessary and had to happen when it did." :haha:

As for his current initiative campaign, what most people don't realize is that they are signing up to have his proposed "HST Extinguishment Act" either enacted by the legislature or sent to a referendum.

The problem with the Zalm's so-called "HST Extinguishment Act" is that the provisions contained therein are unlawful as well as unworkable:

a) "The HST in BC contravenes Section 92, Article 2, of the Constitution Act 1867."

b) "The Government of Canada establishing an HST in British Columbia is hereby extinguished and of no force or effect whatsoever."

c) "For greater clarity, the HST is hereby extinguished in British Columbia."

d) " Any HST revenues...shall be reimbursed to all British Columbians on a per capita basis."

Yep, that's what people are signing up for. ;)

The federal parliament has already enacted the HST legislation. It's the law of the land. The BC legislature will just be rescinding the existing Social Services Tax Act (PST).

Just another Zalm moment.

[cornholio]

The sad thing is that a harmonized sales tax is actually a great idea, but the liberals are turning people against it with their greed by hiding a massive tax increase in it. I still havent heard them admit that together with the HST we are getting a huge tax increase, I find that disgusting and not only that it will hurt BC if/when the HST is repelled and people wont be willing to implement it in the future because of its stigma.

[whatnext]

Vander Zalm was a right-wing, populist, social conservative, which is an anethma to the moderate BC political scene. That's why everyone was bailing from the Socreds (cabinet resignations, etc) resulting in the 1991 resurgence of the Liberals and the corresponding Socred collapse.

Just one of the Zalm's more loony quips:

:haha:

As for his current initiative campaign, what most people don't realize is that they are signing up to have his proposed "HST Extinguishment Act" either enacted by the legislature or sent to a referendum.

The problem with the Zalm's so-called "HST Extinguishment Act" is that the provisions contained therein are unlawful as well as unworkable:

a) "The HST in BC contravenes Section 92, Article 2, of the Constitution Act 1867."

b) "The Government of Canada establishing an HST in British Columbia is hereby extinguished and of no force or effect whatsoever."

c) "For greater clarity, the HST is hereby extinguished in British Columbia."

d) " Any HST revenues...shall be reimbursed to all British Columbians on a per capita basis."

Yep, that's what people are signing up for. ;)

The federal parliament has already enacted the HST legislation. It's the law of the land. The BC legislature will just be rescinding the existing Social Services Tax Act (PST).

Just another Zalm moment.

It would be a foolish federal government that ignores the will of a large majority of British Columbians. Gordo blew it in many ways, not least by outright lying (his standard m.o.) about the HST. He also backed himself into a corner with his ill-advised income tax cuts while relying on unpredictable gas revenue to prop up his spending. One way or the other, Campbell's gone by the next provincial election.

[flight_from_kamakura]

haha, "resurrected" is right - someone must have accidentally removed the stone weights from his crypt! drive the stake in deeper next time, boys!

and nice one stingray!

[jsbertram]

I still laugh remembering the whole Fantasy Gardens scandal & Faye Leung's "YOU OWE ME MONEY" tape recordings.

The perfect encapsulation of this was when Ted Hughes had Zalm under oath getting testimony for his Conflict of Interest report, and Zalm actually said (I'm paraphrasing here ... ) "I didn't think there was in a conflict of interest as long as no-one else knew about the money" - $15,000 in a paper bag he got from an Asian tycoon 'to be held in trust' as part of the deal to buy Fantasy Gardens.

[WarrenC12]

The 'Zalm anti-HST campaign is Canada's version of the teabaggers. Enough said. :koko:

[whatnext]

The 'Zalm anti-HST campaign is Canada's version of the teabaggers. Enough said. :koko:

I guess 80% of British Columbians are teabaggers then.

[Spork]

I guess 80% of British Columbians are teabaggers then.

The correct percentage is 27%.

Either way, they have all been horribly misled by our version of Bill O'Reilly - GlobalTV (okay, maybe not that bad).

The even more hilarious part from the actually proposed bill itself is that even if their little union & NDP-backed petition gets 10% from every riding, there are MANY more steps along the way. First, the petition & bill needs to be authorized by some beaurocrat. Then, it will go to a referendum in September 2011 (that's right, 1 1/2 years after the petition started). After that, 50% of registered voters need to vote in favour of the bill. That's 50% of those registered, not 50% of those that vote. If only 49% of the population comes out to vote - which is not unheard of given that only 65-ish% of people vote in a general election - and all vote in favour of the bill, nothing happens.

Then, finally, after all of that time and work (probably 2 years after the petition started), the bill gets introduced like any other bill into the legislature. After we've had the HST for two years, the provincial government (BC Liberals) get to say whether or not it will be kept. There is no guarantee of passage. Good luck.

http://www.elections.bc.ca/index.php/referenda-recall-initiative/initiative/

[whatnext]

The correct percentage is 27%..

In the Angus Reid poll, 82 per cent of people said they disagree with the HST, up from 77 per cent who said the same thing in mid-March.

In addition, 81 per cent of people said they would sign the anti-HST petition if given the opportunity.

"Clearly, people are still mad," said Angus Reid Strategies research director Hamish Marshall.

"For 81 per cent to say they would sign the petition, that's as close to universal as you get on anything in British Columbia," he added.

Conducted among 800 people between April 12-14, the online poll has a margin of error of plus or minus 3.5 per cent.
http://www.vancouversun.com/news/Majority+would+sign+anti+petition+poll/2918399/story.html

Congrats to Gordo on uniting the province on a way he never has before. As I said, he's toast by the next election. Either he quits or he's pushed by the corporate backers who helped him usurp the Liberal leadership in the first place.

[jsbertram]

The 'Zalm anti-HST campaign is Canada's version of the teabaggers. Enough said. :koko:

I remember the piece on the Daily Show last summer when their 'reporter' at a rally had the protesters google 'Teabagging' during their interview. What popped wasn't what they were expecting to find, and their reactions while reading the google results page were priceless.

I wonder how many switched to coffee afterwards?

googling 'coffee grinder' .....

[Spork]

In the Angus Reid poll, 82 per cent of people said they disagree with the HST, up from 77 per cent who said the same thing in mid-March.

In addition, 81 per cent of people said they would sign the anti-HST petition if given the opportunity.

"Clearly, people are still mad," said Angus Reid Strategies research director Hamish Marshall.

"For 81 per cent to say they would sign the petition, that's as close to universal as you get on anything in British Columbia," he added.

Conducted among 800 people between April 12-14, the online poll has a margin of error of plus or minus 3.5 per cent.
http://www.vancouversun.com/news/Majority+would+sign+anti+petition+poll/2918399/story.html

Congrats to Gordo on uniting the province on a way he never has before. As I said, he's toast by the next election. Either he quits or he's pushed by the corporate backers who helped him usurp the Liberal leadership in the first place.

Yay! A source! Exactly what I was looking for. :D

My other discussion still stands, however. Resistance is futile! Pay your appropriate amount of the tax burden or perish!

Here is a great post on the items that come along with the HST: http://www.tenthtothefraser.ca/2010/04/16/hst-critics-making-political-hay-out-of-scaring-misinformed-people/

[whatnext]

Yay! A source! Exactly what I was looking for. :D

My other discussion still stands, however. Resistance is futile! Pay your appropriate amount of the tax burden or perish!

Here is a great post on the items that come along with the HST: http://www.tenthtothefraser.ca/2010/04/16/hst-critics-making-political-hay-out-of-scaring-misinformed-people/

That's a biased view. We keep hearing how great the HST is for manufacturers. Exactly how much manufacturing activity is their in BC? Meantime it will be terrible for the service industry. Ditto cultural events/attractions which will now be taxed.

Vander Zalm has tapped into two forces: people are mad about yet another Campbell tax AND they're mad about being lied to. The BC Libs ignore that at their peril.

[Spork]

What part is biased, exactly? Nothing in that article says anything about manufacturers.

What gives you the right to pay less in taxes than the services that we receive cost? I have NEVER heard any response to this from anybody who bitches about any tax. Until somebody answers that, any argument against any tax is moot.

[touraccuracy]

consumption taxes are the way to go, no matter how much you hate the bc liberals whatnext, that doesn't make this a bad policy.

[whatnext]

Looks like former Finance Minister Carole Taylor has broken ranks with Gordo and come out swinging against the HST. Shame she won't run for Premier:

Former B.C. finance minister Carole Taylor has joined the chorus of critics of the harmonized sales tax, adding to her successor’s woes Monday just as the government prepares to cut off debate on its tax legislation this week.

“This particular tax takes the tax off businesses – it takes $1.8-billion off of businesses – and puts it on consumers,” Ms. Taylor told a CTV News panel last week. “But I think the bigger issue is that [Premier Gordon Campbell] promised that they would not – they would not – do the harmonization of the sales tax. And then right after the election, decided to do it.”... (bold mine)
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/british-columbia/bcs-carole-taylor-joins-outcry-against-hst/article1547792/

[LeftCoaster]

Looks like former Finance Minister Carole Taylor has broken ranks with Gordo and come out swinging against the HST. Shame she won't run for Premier:

Former B.C. finance minister Carole Taylor has joined the chorus of critics of the harmonized sales tax, adding to her successor’s woes Monday just as the government prepares to cut off debate on its tax legislation this week.

“This particular tax takes the tax off businesses – it takes $1.8-billion off of businesses – and puts it on consumers,” Ms. Taylor told a CTV News panel last week. “But I think the bigger issue is that [Premier Gordon Campbell] promised that they would not – they would not – do the harmonization of the sales tax. And then right after the election, decided to do it.”... (bold mine)
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/british-columbia/bcs-carole-taylor-joins-outcry-against-hst/article1547792/

Why didnt you bold the important part then, where she says what the real problem is...

The HST isnt the problem, how the governemnt approached its implementation is.

[whatnext]

Why didnt you bold the important part then, where she says what the real problem is...

The HST isnt the problem, how the governemnt approached its implementation is.

Both issues are the real problem. Though I suppose Gordo shifting the tax burden onto us peons and away from his corporate buddies is no surprise. Then again, neither is his lying to the electorate before an election.

It is also a problem that this government claims the HST is desperately needed, then tries to claim it is "revenue neutral". If revenue neutral, how can it possibly be desperately needed? Its amusing to watch his MLA's blindly follow him off the cliff. I guess they''re just not concerned about re-election. I can't believe Dianne Watts is dumb enough to play Campbell's Rita Johnson in the next election? Maybe Carole is positioning herself as the Liberal saviour after all

[Spork]

Ever think that the government works to have a better, more efficient society? Maybe that is revenue neutral and desperately needed to make BC more efficient.

Also, any response to my previous post yet?

[Zassk]

It's desperately needed to compete with Ontario's HST. Period. This detail has been lost in all of the commotion. Gordo had no intention to go with the HST, but felt that he had no choice once Ontario signed on. Ontario's HST was revealed days after the BC election.

[Stingray2004]

Delete

[whatnext]

Ever think that the government works to have a better, more efficient society? Maybe that is revenue neutral and desperately needed to make BC more efficient.

Also, any response to my previous post yet?

What, your disengenuous question about paying less taxes than the benefit one consumes?

How do you know? By your reasoning I assume you support a tax credit for childless couples who support schools systems when they'll never have children that use them? Or tax credits for smokers and drinkers who pay high taxes on those products that subsidize art galleries they'll never see? Under your view what benefit do I get when my taxes go to give some crack head in the DTES a place to shoot up?

If this tax is truly "revenue neutral" as Gordo and his puppet Hansen claim, your argument holds no water at all.

[whatnext]

Don't tell me that you are a Carole James lover?!:D

Hell, just look east to Nova Scotia where the new NDP guvmint of Daryl Dexter has increased their HST to 15% - the highest in Canada. Yeah I know, the NDP wants to shift the tax burden onto Nova Scotia peons and away from their corporate buddies.;)

I wasn't aware we're living in NS. As flawed a comparison as trying to say the BC "Liberals" are the same as the Federal Liberals.

Rita Johnson? She was a miserable right-wing Vander Zalmoid that drove the SC's over the cliff. As NDP strategists have oft stated after the 1991 election, had the Wilson Libs had another week with their momentum, the Liberals would have won government.

No Rita was the one who got stuck holding the steering wheel when Vander Zalm was pushed out of the drivers seat. As Watts would be if she's dumb enough to take the reins when Gordo bails (or is pushed by his corporate masters, who'll be terrified at the thought of the NDP in power). The same corporate masters who were so scared of another party out of their control that they hijacked the Liberals and installed their lackey Gordo as leader.

If Zalm plays this out and takes control of the BC Conservative party the BC Liberals are finished, unloved and caught between the Left and Right.

[Stingray2004]

Though I suppose Gordo shifting the tax burden onto us peons and away from his corporate buddies is no surprise.

Don't tell me that you are a Carole James lover?! :D Even an Angus Reid Stategies poll from last fall confirmed that a majority of NDP supporters want her to take a walk in the snow.

As for the HST - hell, just look east to Nova Scotia where the new NDP guvmint of Daryl Dexter has increased their HST to 15% - the highest in Canada. Yeah I know, the NDP wants to shift the tax burden onto Nova Scotia peons and away from their corporate buddies.;)

I can't believe Dianne Watts is dumb enough to play Campbell's Rita Johnson in the next election? Maybe Carole is positioning herself as the Liberal saviour after all

Rita Johnson? She was a miserable right-wing Vander Zalmoid that drove the SC's over the cliff. As NDP strategists have oft stated after the 1991 election, had the Wilson Libs had another week with their momentum, the Liberals would have won government.

As for Watts - she was voted "best premier" by a WIDE margin in the same Angus Reid Strategies poll from last fall. Why? Because she is also anti-HST, is intelligent, a go-getter, reasonable, a consenus builder etc., etc. who also brought on board councillor Judy Villeneuve with her Surrey First municipal team, a long time Surrey New Democrat.

With their high approval ratings, either Watts or Taylor would be a slam dunk in the next election for the Libs. Bank on it.

Hell, Bill Bennett had considerably worse approval ratings, than Gordo has now, back in 1986. Remove that cancer and bring in renewal al la Vander Zalm in 1986 and the media treats the new premier like a movie star. Same with Clark a decade later. Yet these two guys were both right-wing/left-wing populists respectively who both later destroyed their political parties.

Nevertheless, both Watts and Taylor are from a different, more centrist and big-tent mode.

In any event, that "new leader/premier" sort of political dynamic is akin to a "speeding freight train" - the enormous positive momentum created thereto is unstoppable.

And that's BC politics. ;)

[whatnext]

Vander Zalm delivered the petition to Victoria with an unbeliveable 706,000 signatures! Grassroots democracy at its best. Even Gordo's corporate masters seem to be running scared, and have launched a court challenge.

http://www.vancouversun.com/news/Vander+Zalm+senses+victory+unbelievable+fight+against/3222399/story.html

[hollywoodnorth]

Vander Zalm delivered the petition to Victoria with an unbeliveable 706,000 signatures! Grassroots democracy at its best. Even Gordo's corporate masters seem to be running scared, and have launched a court challenge.

http://www.vancouversun.com/news/Vander+Zalm+senses+victory+unbelievable+fight+against/3222399/story.html

*YAWN* :tup:

[Yume-sama]

I'm still a little undecided on the HST, but I don't believe it was hard to find people who are willing to sign a petition against a tax they know almost nothing about, other than the assumption they'll pay more for things.

It would be up there with a ban on kicking cute puppies, as far as ease of gaining public opinion goes.

Surely the government could have explained the tax better. And surely nobody thinks the NDP wouldn't have raised taxes in some other way, anyways.

[Hourglass]

:previous:

Precisely. Who in their right mind would willingly say that they want to pay MORE tax?

Here's a conspiracy theory for you: maybe Vander Zalm is really closet NDP? Trying to do to the Liberals what he did to the Socreds... :haha:

[whatnext]

I'm still a little undecided on the HST, but I don't believe it was hard to find people who are willing to sign a petition against a tax they know almost nothing about, other than the assumption they'll pay more for things.

It would be up there with a ban on kicking cute puppies, as far as ease of gaining public opinion goes.

Surely the government could have explained the tax better. And surely nobody thinks the NDP wouldn't have raised taxes in some other way, anyways.

Raise taxes? But Gordo said the tax is revenue neutral. You're not suggesting <gasp> that he's a liar are you!?

[Yume-sama]

Raise taxes? But Gordo said the tax is revenue neutral. You're not suggesting <gasp> that he's a liar are you!?

:frog: I'm not sure, as I'm not a forensic accountant.

However, I am familiar with basic laws of the human race that say whenever a politician talks, they be lyin' to you :P

I very much doubt there would be need to spend millions of dollars introducing an HST, if it would do... nothing.

Of course, it is government, so millions for no net gain or loss would be a good thing in comparison to a lot that goes on.

[ozonemania]

I will just say this now. I lived through Bill Vander Zalm in the 80s. He was AWFUL IN EVERY WAY and I feel sorry for those people that don't have memories or lives long enough to remember what an absolute opportunistic nimcompoop he was. He has no credibility to me and I just shake my head when I hear how popular he is after having taken up this issue.

As for the tax itself, I am for it. I'm not a rah-rah bring the new tax on type of person, I'm more the person that thinks... this move is reasonable, why not? I realize that in the short term at least I will be paying more on things, but if it simplifies taxation for businesses and boosts the economy even just a bit, I am willing to do that.

Actually, what I really wish is that they would just build taxes into the price for consumer goods and services, and that they'd get rid of the penny, so that if the sticker says that it costs $15, that's what you pull out of your wallet and that's it.

Call me weird... that's fine, I'd just fit in with the other weirdos that cry bloody murder at Vander Zalm rallies.

[jlousa]

I believe that was the plan, if all provinces signed up for the HST then the federal government could legislate that the prices be listed taxes in, this would also include airline tickets and their barrage of after taxes. Not sure why they would require all provinces to be on board first but perhaps it's the way the gst was first brought in that requires provincial co-operation.

[MolsonExport]

Is his loathesome defunt project still littering Steveston Highway in Richmond?
http://mw2.google.com/mw-panoramio/photos/medium/3044438.jpg
c/o Nawitka

[twoNeurons]

I believe that was the plan, if all provinces signed up for the HST then the federal government could legislate that the prices be listed taxes in, this would also include airline tickets and their barrage of after taxes. Not sure why they would require all provinces to be on board first but perhaps it's the way the gst was first brought in that requires provincial co-operation.

You could be right that it's about the way that GST was brought in. I know that there was a lot made of GST being a transparent tax when they brought it in. If I remember correctly, it replaced a Manufacturer's tax of 11% ( only on goods, hidden, and not paid by the consumer directly ). I remember all this stuff about transparency in implementing the [then] 7% GST. Stores that wanted to include the GST (many did at first) were obligated to display those "Prices includes 7% GST" everywhere.

The government's mistake is that people don't like add-on expenses. It feels like something's being stolen from you.

[whatnext]

I will just say this now. I lived through Bill Vander Zalm in the 80s. He was AWFUL IN EVERY WAY and I feel sorry for those people that don't have memories or lives long enough to remember what an absolute opportunistic nimcompoop he was. He has no credibility to me and I just shake my head when I hear how popular he is after having taken up this issue.

As for the tax itself, I am for it. I'm not a rah-rah bring the new tax on type of person, I'm more the person that thinks... this move is reasonable, why not? I realize that in the short term at least I will be paying more on things, but if it simplifies taxation for businesses and boosts the economy even just a bit, I am willing to do that.

Actually, what I really wish is that they would just build taxes into the price for consumer goods and services, and that they'd get rid of the penny, so that if the sticker says that it costs $15, that's what you pull out of your wallet and that's it.

Call me weird... that's fine, I'd just fit in with the other weirdos that cry bloody murder at Vander Zalm rallies.

I guess there are 706,000 weirdos in this province then. Sorry, I don't fall into the "I don't mind being lied to and being held in contempt by politicians" crowd. While I would never vote for Vander Zalm he is 100% right that politicians are accountable to the public. And does anyone really buy Colin Hansen's lame attempts at rationalizing the Liberals' deceit, that businesses will now lower their prices after transferring the tax burden to the consumer?

[ozonemania]

While I would never vote for Vander Zalm he is 100% right that politicians are accountable to the public.I find this rather ironic... do you know the reasons why he was shamed by the voting public when he was Premier?

And clearly not everyone that signed that petition is a weirdo. But I wouldn't be surprised if many of those signatures come from people who signed in response to the statement "Sign this if you don't like being lied to and don't like more taxes!"

[Waders]

I am actually for HST, for the sake of "greater good". It is just good economic policy and will have long term benefit to the economics. This will indirectly benefit me(even though I now pay an extra $33 dollars for my morning coffee every year).
It is really unfornuate the government did a bad job explaining the benefit of HST and implementation.

It is all politics. This HST issue is being used for political means.
I can't figure out what Vander Zalm's true motive is. And NDP seems to be too quiet on this issue.

One of the reader said in a news acticle,

Leonard Krog and other NDP MLA's are being very hypocritical when they state that our Liberal MLA's should abide with what the citizens are asking for and rescind the HST. If the NDP is elected as the government in 2013, they have no intention of rescinding the tax.

Mike Farnsworth stated on CBC that an NDP government would continue with the tax for five years and then they would decide if the tax would stay or not.

From past experience of an NDP government in B.C., we can rest assured that it will not only stay, but probably be increased.

Source: http://www.canada.com/Media+fans+displeasure+over/3227317/story.html

[WarrenC12]

I am actually for HST, for the sake of "greater good". It is just good economic policy and will have long term benefit to the economics. This will indirectly benefit me(even though I now pay an extra $33 dollars for my morning coffee every year).
It is really unfornuate the government did a bad job explaining the benefit of HST and implementation.


I am with you 100%. This whole process is very interesting. I don't want the return of Vander Zalm, but I applaud him for the effort. I think his campaign is a stark contrast to the joke of "protesters" for the G20 and the whole mess around that.

That being said, I hope the HST remains, but his group continues with the recall campaign. That's real democracy in action.

[mr.x]

I was a baby when Zalm was Premier, what exactly did he do that was so terrible? And that Zalm has been using this anti-HST ploy for himself - to get back into BC politics?


I have to say that I'm against the tax, as that's everyone's natural instinct...there's a lot of different information out there about the effects HST would have, and I pray that businesses will in fact lower their prices. That's what happens if you use basic economic principles for tax hikes, I just hope that this will actually happen.

[invisibleairwaves]

My main beef with the HST isn't so much the tax itself, but the completely underhanded way in which it was introduced. Completely undemocratic.

[Spork]

My main beef with the HST isn't so much the tax itself, but the completely underhanded way in which it was introduced. Completely undemocratic.

How so? Government, which was voted in by the people to represent them, changed the taxation structure. What is undemocratic about that?

Anyways, it will be interesting to see the CPI index in BC and Ontario compared to the rest of Canada to see if prices rise any more slowly (they will not decrease, that's for sure).

[Zassk]

To the person who asked, Fantasy Gardens still exists but is closed. The only sign of life for a decade was the Art Knapps Plantland co-located on the same property. That has also left and the lot as a whole is now utterly decrepit. A movie was shot there a few months ago, and occasionally a liquidation sale is located there for one high street brand or another.

An application for redevelopment has been approved and the parking lot has just now been covered with sand preload for phase 1 of condos. The whole front of the property will be turned into 4-storey condos in several phases. The windmill and adjoining buildings will be demolished. I think the old castle from Expo 86 is being retained as a heritage structure. The rear of the property will revert to agricultural as the land remains in the ALR.

[Waders]

It is hard to predict whether the CPI index will increase in the long term or not because of the HST. It might actually slightly decrease.
There is a lot of talk about people will eat out less and spend less. If this happens, business will have to adjust/reduce the price of goods and services to attract more customers.
This has already happened even before July 1 when Superstore had a no HST sales weekend a few weeks ago. Some businesses have offered discount on the first day of HST.
Source: http://www.vancouversun.com/news/first+discounts+offered+soften+blow/3225229/story.html

For me, I am actually going to save coffee money as I just changed my customer behaviour by reducing my daily coffee consumption at Tim's place from 2 cups to 1, that is an annual saving of $522! :D

[Zassk]

Restaurants survived all this time with two taxes in Ontario... something tells me they will survive here too. :)

[whatnext]

How so? Government, which was voted in by the people to represent them, changed the taxation structure. What is undemocratic about that?

Just like the government that people in the North voted for in 2001 based on their promise not to sell BC Rail? Lying is a pattern of behaviour with Gordo and one big reason why he's got to go.

[Waders]

Which government doesn't break a promise? Sign.. This doesn't necessary made them a liar though.
The situation in this world is so unpredictable that sometimes a promise just can't be kept.
The safest bet for a party is not to make any campaign promise, but then who would vote for that party?
A government would always have achievements as well as mistakes. Different people would have a different final score for their work. In 2013 voters would choose the "lesser evil" party to be the next government.

[WarrenC12]

Just like the government that people in the North voted for in 2001 based on their promise not to sell BC Rail? Lying is a pattern of behaviour with Gordo and one big reason why he's got to go.

Maybe. The Liberals can do what they want because the opposition is so pathetic and unappealing to everyone.

[mezzanine]

I was a baby when Zalm was Premier, what exactly did he do that was so terrible?


1) trying to sell fantasy gardens while he was premier and resulting conflict of interest charges. FG was a large endeavour, and unfortunately, it was losing money. In the end, BVZ was found to be in conflict of interest, but had done nothing illegal. IMO, that's damning with faint praise.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Vander_Zalm

This link is intersting:

http://www.canada.com/vancouversun/news/story.html?id=6b416986-a1fa-418a-888e-3fdf7390778a

Tan Yu was willing to buy debt-ridden Fantasy Gardens without even looking at the books and tonight, they were going to celebrate over a $600 Chinese banquet before settling the last details.

Eight hours later, after an exhausting and confusing night, they left with a questionable agreement to sell the Gardens and a mysterious envelope full of cash.

The events of that night would lead to the downfall of B.C.'s 27th premier.
....
But that August night seemed more the conclusion of a tumultuous chapter in their life rather than the beginning of another. Fantasy Gardens was losing money to the point that the Vander Zalms had to put their own personal assets into it. Merchants were moving out and their accountant felt the business would not survive. The Gardens was a constant target in the B.C. legislature where the opposition questioned everything from liquor licences to leases.

2) opposing abortion rights and HIV/AIDS initiatives

he got into a fight with health officials over AIDS. Dr. John Blatherwick, Vancouver’s chief health officer, proposed a public awareness campaign stressing safe sexual practices, including teaching high-school students how to use condoms. Vander Zalm declared that condoms had no place in the classrooms of the province, and that abstinence, not “safe sex,” was the key to preventing AIDS among teenagers. Dr. Ted McLean, director of communicable disease control in Vancouver, was outraged: “There is no place for morality here,” he said. “We must do everything in our power to keep a lid on AIDS. If the premier can’t agree with that, he’ll have to live with the knowledge that some people may contract this disease out of ignorance.”


http://www.theinterim.com/issues/society-culture/vander-zalm-and-media-prejudice/

---------------------------

At the end of the day, you can't deny his appeal. He has an advantage over the NDP in HST opposition in that he does not have to present an alternative to the HST. No one likes taxes, but do we increase other taxes or cut programs?

Bill Vander Zalm was often described as a charismatic figure; he was smiling, charming, and approachable, with a beautiful wife to match. He was an outspoken populist, an enemy of big government. “I hate bureaucracy,” he said. “We’ve got too many rules that make it too hard for you to do your job.” In consequence, some of his critics, like Larry Kuehn of the B.C. Teachers’ Federation and Cliff Andstein of the B.C. Federation of Labour, thought that he did not understand the complexities inevitable in modern administration and would reduce the provincial government to a state of chaos.

http://www.theinterim.com/issues/society-culture/vander-zalm-and-media-prejudice/

[whatnext]

...At the end of the day, you can't deny his appeal. He has an advantage over the NDP in HST opposition in that he does not have to present an alternative to the HST. No one likes taxes, but do we increase other taxes or cut programs? (bold mine)

Again, Gordo said this tax is revenue neutral. So is he lying? Or perhaps you think its all worthwhile for that $1.6 billion the Feds are giving as a ONE TIME incentive?

Or more likely, its a chance for the BC Liberals to shift some of the tax burden off their corporate masters and onto us little people.

[mezzanine]

(bold mine)

Again, Gordo said this tax is revenue neutral. So is he lying? Or perhaps you think its all worthwhile for that $1.6 billion the Feds are giving as a ONE TIME incentive?


:shrug:

I didn't say anything about the tax being revenue neutral.

to rephrase my question, if we don't go to the HST, is the status quo PST any better? Why did ontario go for the HST?

[agrant]

Is his loathesome defunt project still littering Steveston Highway in Richmond?
http://mw2.google.com/mw-panoramio/photos/medium/3044438.jpg
c/o NawitkaYes, it is still just sitting there looking ugly. Aside from sometimes being used for TV/Film, I have no idea the use it has. Richmond seems to have a few fair sized chunks of land with little going on. I guess there's no rush.

[mooks28]

I'm sorry but am I the only one who hasn't noticed the slightest bit of impact with the HST? I paid a few more cents on my coffee. Woopie!

[MolsonExport]

Yes, it is still just sitting there looking ugly. Aside from sometimes being used for TV/Film, I have no idea the use it has. Richmond seems to have a few fair sized chunks of land with little going on. I guess there's no rush.

Christ, it was vacant when I first moved to the Vancouver area in 1994. big as life and twice as ugly.

[Rusty Gull]

Compared to the drab housing stock that populates most of Richmond, I have no problem with Fantasy Gardens. To me, it's an eye-catching and amusing diversion.

As for the Zalm, he is awesome. He is calling BS on a tax that was concocted by a handful of bureaucrats who think they know what is best for us.

[Zassk]

As I posted earlier, Fantasy Gardens has been pre-loaded for conversion to condos. The windmill and associated derelict stuff will be gone in months.

[Spork]

...handful of bureaucrats who think they know what is best for us.

In most cases they do. I doubt that anybody here is an expert in public policy, economics, and business to the extent that many in government are. I'm not saying that they are flawless, but you need to recognize that they are likely better at what they do than anybody else could in their position.

[whatnext]

In most cases they do. I doubt that anybody here is an expert in public policy, economics, and business to the extent that many in government are. I'm not saying that they are flawless, but you need to recognize that they are likely better at what they do than anybody else could in their position.

Gee, if that was the case why didn't they think of it way back when the Maritimes implemented it?

Like the political whore he is, $1.6 billion was dangled in front of Gordo and he leapt at it - after all his trick of using the proceeds of oil and gas rights auctions to make it appear he was a sound fiscal manager hit a big speed bump with the recession.

[WarrenC12]

Gee, if that was the case why didn't they think of it way back when the Maritimes implemented it?

Like the political whore he is, $1.6 billion was dangled in front of Gordo and he leapt at it - after all his trick of using the proceeds of oil and gas rights auctions to make it appear he was a sound fiscal manager hit a big speed bump with the recession.

And the NDP would have done what exactly?

[red-paladin]

And the NDP would have done what exactly?

Probably built only skytrain lines to NDP ridings.

[jsbertram]

I see you've noticed that when the Millennium Line was built by the NDP, it ran from Lougheed Mall to Commercial/Broadway (later extended to VCC) - a solid collection of NDP ridings - and stopped before the next riding west - a stoic LIB riding.

There was even a nasty rumour that because the western-most Millennium station is between Clark Dr and Glen Dr, it would be known as Glen-Clark station. Fortunately the Premier Clark and the NDP was de-elected before the Millennium Line was finished and the VCC station was another two years away from opening, so wiser heads named it after the nearby Vancouver Community College (VCC).


Of course, Zalm & the Socreds weren't above the political games of extending SkyTrain into Surrey's solid Socred ridings from New West. This shouldn't be surprising when you know that Zalm was Surrey Mayor & Rita Johnston a Surrey Councellor in the 70s, so when he later became Premier in '86 and she became his Transport Minster in '89, the fix was in for Surrey to get SkyTrain in 1990.

[Pinion]

I'm sorry but am I the only one who hasn't noticed the slightest bit of impact with the HST? I paid a few more cents on my coffee. Woopie!

I just paid over $12.50 for my first Subway combo meal in a while. And last for a while.

Now that's mainly Subway's fault, but damn that's a ridiculous price for what was once a cheap meal.

[whatnext]

Looks like the Zalm has another victory over Gordo's puppetmasters in court:

The Zalm has won — and the anti-HST initiative, a Frankenstein for the government, has been resuscitated to again stalk the province terrorizing B.C. Liberal MLAs.

In a brief, to the point ruling on Friday, B.C. Supreme Court Chief Justice Robert Bauman rejected outright the big business coalition’s bid to kill the controversial petition and save Premier Gordon Campbell from continuing political damage....

Read more: http://www.vancouversun.com/news/Anti+petition+ruled+legal+Supreme+Court/3423142/story.html#ixzz0xH1fghWj

[CameronT120]

The wording of the recall initiative has been deemed too wordy by elections BC.
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/british-columbia/story/2010/11/25/british-columbia-hst-petition-rejected.html