[KHOOLE]

" there is no particular need for the facility to be close to restaurants, bars, tourist attractions, etc. like a convention centre "

I don't get your point!

Isn't the purpose of an exposition centre or convention centre (whatever!) to feed the "restaurants, bars, tourist attractions, etc" as well as hotel and related tourist enterprises?

Why is the City of Ottawa subsidizing this exposition centre if there is no payback to the city coffers as well as jobs and higher income for the taxpayers across town?

Poor planning or poor judgment?

[umbria27]

Honestly, I don't see a lot of advantage to having it downtown (although perhaps closer to downtown might have been better). As far as I can tell, this thing caters to local residents going to travelling sales/shows, so there is no particular need for the facility to be close to restaurants, bars, tourist attractions, etc. like a convention centre catering to our of town visitors.


Aren't the advantages of having trade shows downtown the same as those of having a stadium downtown:
-accessible by transit
-promotes knock-on economic activity in restaurants, bars etc. - why wouldn't you go for dinner after the car show or home show?
-proximity to hotels for show staff
-synergies with other facilities such as the Convention Centre for hosting larger events

[kevinbottawa]

It's not odd to have this kind of event space near the airport. I only know about Toronto and they have both the Toronto Congress Centre and the International Centre, which is also operated by Shenkman, just outside the airport. Perhaps it made sense to them based on their years of experience with the International Centre.

[LeadingEdgeBoomer]

Already considering expansion of the CE Center--



CE Center President Worried about NCC’s Proposal to Ban New Developments on Federal Land

Anna Drahovzal with Kristi Soble
Thursday, February 16, 2012

The President of the CE Center says the newly opened trade show space is doing so well, it may expand.

Though it's only been open for six weeks, Kevin McCrann says they're booking up and attracting events that are using the space as a "blank slate".

From gymnastics competitions to concert circuits that used to bypass Ottawa, McCrann says the CE Center is filling up.

It's at a 40 percent occupancy rate, the target is 55 percent. He says it bodes well for the future.

"We have a 5-year option on additional land. If we keep going and business keeps going and the economy keeps rolling it's very much in our plans to expand. The building is built to allow expansion."

What doesn't bode well though, he says, is the NCC's proposal to prevent any future development on federal land surrounding the Center.

"That's insanity. That's not good for our city. This development should be a catalyst for more development out there."

He says the Center itself will flourish without further development, but to leave it as it is would be a missed opportunity.

McCrann says he will be discussing the issue with the NCC[/QUOTE]

[S-Man]

Go, NCC! Way to stop people from ruining money-generating empty green space! :rolleyes:

[adam-machiavelli]

Correction: Way to ruin people developing ecologically-sensitive green space. If the CE Centre wants to expand, it should move into town. Oh and it should have public access to water.

[kevinbottawa]

I thought this land was under the jurisdiction of the airport authority. When they were first going to build the CE Centre the NCC wanted to put their two cents in and the airport authority had to put them in their place. The NCC should have no say about what happens within the airport lands even if its the greenbelt. The airport authority has a mandate from the federal government. Too much overlapping jurisdictions.

[bradnixon]

Uh-oh... from http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/story/2012/02/15/ottawa-ce-centre-drinking-fountains.html

Do the LEED standards really not include anything relating to drinking water?!


No free drinking water at CE Centre
CBC News Posted: Feb 16, 2012 6:12 AM ET Last Updated: Feb 16, 2012

People attending events at Ottawa's new trade show centre may find there is no cheap way to satisfy their thirst, as the building does not have a single drinking fountain.

The CE Centre near the Ottawa airport was built through a public-private partnership with the city contributing about $8.5 million to the project.

But unlike most city facilities, there are no drinking fountains. Water is sold in vending machines at the CE Centre, at a cost of $3 for a 500 millilitre bottle.

Even those who bring an empty bottle to fill up in the bathroom are out of luck. The taps are automated and dispense lukewarm water.

Kevin McCrann, the centre's president, said he only realized there were no drinking fountains when he moved in.

Fountains 'slipped through the cracks'
"When you're designing a building and building a building, there's probably a million things that go into it, and a water fountain is not a code issue," said McCrann.

"I think it's just something that slipped through the cracks."

McCrann said the facility is a green one and well on its way to attaining a LEED Silver certification for environmental sustainability. He said they might consider installing drinking fountains but it is not at the top of their agenda.

"It's something we'll look at probably adding to the building, it's not a major thing to do that," he said.

The city contracted McCrann's employer, the Shenkman Corporation, to build and operate the facility. The chairwoman of the city's environment committee, Coun. Maria McRae, did not respond to several requests for an interview.

In an email, a city spokesperson deferred comment to the CE Centre's operator.

[waterloowarrior]

18 March 2012 aerial by southfacing @ flickr
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7086/6848952710_aa5f165005_b.jpg

http://www.flickr.com/photos/23575605@N08/6848952710/in/photostream

[KHOOLE]

At least, it's a functional building but that's about all we can say about it.
Has a public water fountain been installed yet?

[kevinbottawa]

They still haven't put up the "CE Centre" signage on the building like in the renderings; maybe they've decided against it. I think it would make the building look a lot better.

[Uhuniau]

At least, it's a functional building but that's about all we can say about it.

I don't think you can even say that.

How the hell did this site plan ever get approved in the first place? Does the official plan crapola about transit priority mean a goddamn thing?

[Dado]

I don't think you can even say that.

How the hell did this site plan ever get approved in the first place? Does the official plan crapola about transit priority mean a goddamn thing?

I don't know... read the effing thread?

The CEC is an ancillary project to the Lansdowne project. Not only did this thing get approved, City Council even put up some money for it. Since it is within 600 m of an existing rapid transit stop, even though it is quite inconvenient to use, it probably passed the nominal transit test.

[Troll]

18 March 2012 aerial by southfacing @ flickr
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7086/6848952710_aa5f165005_b.jpg

http://www.flickr.com/photos/23575605@N08/6848952710/in/photostream

haha, christ that's horrible. it was such a nicely wooded area too.

[S-Man]

Agreed, but the facade looks better from ground level (line of sight also means you see less parking lot ;))

Heard the other day there will 7-day bus service directly to the site (bus leaves from Greenboro station, can't remember the number)

[lrt's friend]

Agreed, but the facade looks better from ground level (line of sight also means you see less parking lot ;))

Heard the other day there will 7-day bus service directly to the site (bus leaves from Greenboro station, can't remember the number)

Yeah, Route 147 only runs hourly and doesn't run at all during certain hours. The 97 runs very close by but there is no easy way to get to the existing bus stop. Why doesn't the city get off it's *ss and build a proper pedestrian access to the 97 bus stop?

[bradnixon]

Yeah, Route 147 only runs hourly and doesn't run at all during certain hours. The 97 runs very close by but there is no easy way to get to the existing bus stop. Why doesn't the city get off it's *ss and build a proper pedestrian access to the 97 bus stop?

This should be done this spring. The Site Plan approval required pedestrian connections to both the southbound and northbound 97 bus stops on the Airport Parkway. For access to the northbound stop, they will be building a Switchback ramp up the embankment near the hotel.

Personally I think the city should have required completion of these things before the building opened... But it will get done.

[Uhuniau]

I don't know... read the effing thread?

The CEC is an ancillary project to the Lansdowne project. Not only did this thing get approved, City Council even put up some money for it. Since it is within 600 m of an existing rapid transit stop, even though it is quite inconvenient to use, it probably passed the nominal transit test.

There you go: some "nominal" transit test instead of a real-world one, and one rooted in the pretty, if meaningless, words of the transit plan.

Instead we get this crap.

We ALWAYS get this crap.

[Uhuniau]

Yeah, Route 147 only runs hourly and doesn't run at all during certain hours. The 97 runs very close by but there is no easy way to get to the existing bus stop. Why doesn't the city get off it's *ss and build a proper pedestrian access to the 97 bus stop?

Why didn't the developers orient the building so that it was better placed for access by the existing route on the existing stop? Instead, it's all Welcome To My Parking Lot.

Parkers can park anywhere. You can bring the building to the transit, but, nope - at expense to transit riders elsewhere, who'll end up cross-subsidizing the service, they're gonna bring transit to the stupid, ugly, badly-planned, building.

Honest to friggin' pete.

[phil235]

Why didn't the developers orient the building so that it was better placed for access by the existing route on the existing stop? Instead, it's all Welcome To My Parking Lot.

Parkers can park anywhere. You can bring the building to the transit, but, nope - at expense to transit riders elsewhere, who'll end up cross-subsidizing the service, they're gonna bring transit to the stupid, ugly, badly-planned, building.

Honest to friggin' pete.

I think those complaining about the architecture of this place might have slightly unrealistic expectations. As trade show centres near airports go, the CE Centre isn't half bad.

That said, I agree with the comments about transit. Why couldn't they have brought the building out to the street/parkway to better accommodate transit users? It seems so simple to put the big parking lot behing, yet it rarely seems to happen.

[MountainView]

Agreed - they could have placed the building better for transit users but I think with a proper pathway to the current bus stops would be almost as good because transit users still need to walk through the massive parking lot. Further, why did they only signalize one of the intersections and not both? They could have signalized the other intersection and fixed that awkward turn from northbound Uplands onto the airport parkway. There's really only room for one car to sit there while 'yielding' to the southbound Uplands traffic turning towards the airport.

And the giant Parking Lot can be used for Parking Lot Sales during the warmer months!! Fundraisers, automotive shows.... Ya not going to happen is it?

[Dado]

There you go: some "nominal" transit test instead of a real-world one, and one rooted in the pretty, if meaningless, words of the transit plan.

Instead we get this crap.

We ALWAYS get this crap.

Why didn't the developers orient the building so that it was better placed for access by the existing route on the existing stop? Instead, it's all Welcome To My Parking Lot.

Parkers can park anywhere. You can bring the building to the transit, but, nope - at expense to transit riders elsewhere, who'll end up cross-subsidizing the service, they're gonna bring transit to the stupid, ugly, badly-planned, building.

Honest to friggin' pete.


Ya, well, I said pretty much the same thing a year and a half ago, so there.

You can see the depths of this way of thinking in which they argued against a hotel as part of the development because apparently there's one somewhere nearby or something.

For both ease of access to the hotel they apparently don't want to compete with and ease of access to existing and future transit, a completely different site would have been in order on the opposite quadrant of the interchange... I realize that would not have permitted acres of surface parking to surround the place and instead they would likely have had to go with some kind of structured parking, but hey, it's near the airport and you're going to have to pay to park anyway.

Ottawa doesn't "plan". It just does development approvals.

"Kevin McCrann, president of Shenkman, said building the hotel would not constitute sound planning since the existing Hilton Garden Inn was just across the street from where the trade show centre would be built."

Sound planning? That's rich. Wouldn't sound planning call for it to be put on the other side of the street with the hotel and nearer the future LRT alignment?

Oh well. I suppose trade show attendees holed up in the hotel can take a scenic walk along Alert, under the Airport Parkway and across the parking lot to the exposition hall.


I won't comment on the wetland issue beyond pointing out that the area does have a creek/drain running through it, so the claim is at least plausible:

http://maps.google.ca/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&q=Ottawa&ie=UTF8&om=1&hq=&hnear=Ottawa,+Ottawa+Division,+Ontario&ll=45.333625,-75.652392&spn=0.005642,0.009645&t=h&z=17&layer=c&cbll=45.334336,-75.651183&panoid=4hua3LZhxHNxdBgQ-7tyrQ&cbp=12,272.84,,0,5

Regardless of the merits of the wetland argument, the expanse of parking in what is at least a woodlot is disappointing. This is pretty much the same as every other suburban commercial/retail development: an isolated building accompanied by masses of surface parking.

[bradnixon]

FYI this is the diagram I was sent by the city engineer illustrating the pedestrian connections that will be built to the bus stops. The switchback path up the hill connects to the northbound #97 bus stop on the Airport Parkway. It also connects to a sidewalk that goes to the Hilton hotel.

The other pathway emenating from the new bus stop on the right turn channel lane of the Parkway connects to an already-built sidewalk system through the parking lot to the front door.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/--VWBRuvIpFw/T3Jk61YNxEI/AAAAAAAAAIE/pSTK-D92HAQ/s800/CE%2520Centre%2520bus%2520stop%2520connections.png

[peteotown]

CE Centre renamed Ernst & Young Centre
CBC News
Posted: Nov 1, 2012 10:11 AM ET
Last Updated: Nov 1, 2012 11:59 AM ET

A south Ottawa convention centre, formerly called the CE Centre, has been renamed the Ernst & Young Centre.

The agreement was signed between Ernst & Young, one of the world's largest accounting firms, and the venue's owner, Capital Exhibition Centre LLP.

The centre covers 220,000 square feet and expects about one million visitors each year for various shows, exhibits, meeting and banquets.

The new name comes into effect immediately but a formal ceremony will follow when the new sign is installed.

The CE Centre is located at 4899 Uplands Dr. near Ottawa's MacDonald-Cartier International Airport. It opened earlier this year.

source: cbc ottawa (http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/story/2012/11/01/ottawa-ce-centre-renamed-ernstyoung-centre.html)

[J.OT13]

Ottawa Exposition Hall Facility (Airport Parkway and Uplands)| Proposed

I think the thread is overdue for a name change.