[FuzzyWuz]

I don't know if this warrants a thread of it's own but I thought I'd take a stab at it.

I'm thinking tonight of the lights at the Dartmouth side of the Macdonald bridge. As you leave the tollbooth there is a left turn lane; There are two lanes going up Nantucket for regular traffic, and there's a bus lane. I see, time and time again, someone entering the intersection in the left lane going up Nantucket and heading directly to the right lane to exit the intersection. No signals, no nothing. Clearly there are a lot of people who don't get that the left lane on one side lines up with the left lane on the other side of the intersection. Enough people get it wrong that I think there is a flaw in the design of the intersection/lane markings.

Any thoughts on this? Is there a fix?

[halifaxboyns]

I don't know if this warrants a thread of it's own but I thought I'd take a stab at it.

I'm thinking tonight of the lights at the Dartmouth side of the Macdonald bridge. As you leave the tollbooth there is a left turn lane; There are two lanes going up Nantucket for regular traffic, and there's a bus lane. I see, time and time again, someone entering the intersection in the left lane going up Nantucket and heading directly to the right lane to exit the intersection. No signals, no nothing. Clearly there are a lot of people who don't get that the left lane on one side lines up with the left lane on the other side of the intersection. Enough people get it wrong that I think there is a flaw in the design of the intersection/lane markings.

Any thoughts on this? Is there a fix?

I had to read this a few times to try to get what you were trying to demonstrate (it's late here); so I'm hoping I got this right.

The big issue you are saying is people being in the left turn only lane and going through straight up Nantucket - despite the fact it's dedicated left turn only?

Well - that could be solved through the use of a barrier (a curb or something) that slants traffic into a slight angle demonstrating a left turn - although with the limited space I'm not sure how well that would work. It might function okay considering the blvd has a landscaped area on the other side?

[Dmajackson]

Even without slanting the lane it could be done.

All of the tollbooths are seperated with a narrow curb so that could be extended right to the intersection. That would force the vehicles to turn and any people still confused could just use Boland or the Mall to get to Victoria if necessary.

The far right booth has a sign saying its for right-turns so the same could be done for this lane (left arrow) and the one to the right of it (straight arrow).

[Keith P.]

I had to read this a few times to try to get what you were trying to demonstrate (it's late here); so I'm hoping I got this right.

The big issue you are saying is people being in the left turn only lane and going through straight up Nantucket - despite the fact it's dedicated left turn only?


No, I don't think that's the issue. I use this intersection every day and I have never seen someone in the left turn lane trying to go straight ahead.

What he is talking about is the leftmost straight-ahead lane. At least once a week I will be in the rightmost straight-thru lane and have some moron next to me drift towards me wanting to end up in my lane on the other side of the intersection. I have even had a few of these idiots honk at me like I have done something wrong.

This is a bad spot in so many ways. Even before the tolls you have a scramble as drivers dart willy-nilly towards whatever tollgate they want in spite of what lane they are in crossing the bridge. Then you have the described behavior going through the intersection, and then you have 2 absolutely lethal crosswalks on Nantucket that both tie up traffic and are tremendously dangerous to pedestrians. The whole thing needs to be blown up and redesigned.

[hfx_chris]

What he is talking about is the leftmost straight-ahead lane. At least once a week I will be in the rightmost straight-thru lane and have some moron next to me drift towards me wanting to end up in my lane on the other side of the intersection. I have even had a few of these idiots honk at me like I have done something wrong.
I see that happen so often. People are dense.
I think the best way to resolve that would be for the city to paint thin dashed lines indicating that the two lanes go straight. Other intersections have thin dashed lines to indicate where you're supposed to drive if it's a little confusing, obviously this is too much for some of our genius drivers in Halifax to figure out too :cool:

[worldlyhaligonian]

No, I don't think that's the issue. I use this intersection every day and I have never seen someone in the left turn lane trying to go straight ahead.

What he is talking about is the leftmost straight-ahead lane. At least once a week I will be in the rightmost straight-thru lane and have some moron next to me drift towards me wanting to end up in my lane on the other side of the intersection. I have even had a few of these idiots honk at me like I have done something wrong.

This is a bad spot in so many ways. Even before the tolls you have a scramble as drivers dart willy-nilly towards whatever tollgate they want in spite of what lane they are in crossing the bridge. Then you have the described behavior going through the intersection, and then you have 2 absolutely lethal crosswalks on Nantucket that both tie up traffic and are tremendously dangerous to pedestrians. The whole thing needs to be blown up and redesigned.

They need to get rid of the crosswalks and put an elevated walkway over the whole roadway.

[Keith P.]

They need to get rid of the crosswalks and put an elevated walkway over the whole roadway.

Actually, what they really need to do is elevate the roadway so traffic can go upstairs (essentially above the existing 1950s-era tollgates) and avoid the Wyse Rd intersection entirely if they are using Nantucket in either direction. Keep the at-grade part only if you are going left or right to/from the bridge.

[Keith P.]

One of the other favorite dysfunctional intersections is where Chebucto turns into Cunard at Windsor. As you are heading east on Chebucto, when you hit Windsor you are faced with buildings dead ahead at the intersection. If you want to continue eastbound you have to jog to the right and then go back left. Of course, if you are attempting to make a turn onto Windsor, hilarity ensues.

But wait, there's more...

If you are on Windsor at this intersection there are allegedly 2 lanes in either direction. However, the street is too narrow to support that many lanes, and in any event, they are not marked once you get into the intersection. What happens more often than not is that cars attempting to turn left go nose to nose with those doing the same thing in the other direction. Totally ridiculous.

[hfx_chris]

Yup yup, forgot about Windsor and Chebucto/Cunard. I hate that intersection, and I usually try to avoid it. They should demolish the convenience store there and straighten the intersection.

[Jstaleness]

Yup yup, forgot about Windsor and Chebucto/Cunard. I hate that intersection, and I usually try to avoid it. They should demolish the convenience store there and straighten the intersection.

I drive this one on a daily basis in all directions. Yes I hate it too. However it wouldn't be as bad if everyone who used it understood how it worked. Explaining that would take a hell of a lot longer than taking down the Needs and re-aligning the intersection. So Chris I agree with you. The Needs doesn't even have to go. The wasted non-used parking front can go and that would make a big difference.

[FuzzyWuz]

Once again last night I was leaving the old bridge about to drive up Nantucket Avenue when the driver to my left showed ignorance of which lane he was following through the intersection. This time it was the other driver who honked as I kept to my lane. After jumping almost out of my skin I realized he thought I was the one cutting into a lane. Nope. When one driver does this one time then it's all their fault. When it happens many times a week at the same intersection there's a problem with the intersection. It then occurred to me: Why don't they put a rumble strip between the two up-Nantucket lanes just where they cross that intersection? That would make someone aware right away that they were crossing lanes. And the traffic going the other way would not even notice.

[Waye Mason]

The right most lane coming out of the Dartmouth bound tolls is a bus lane, or a bus and turn into Scotiabank lane. It could be removed when the bus terminal moves up hill.

The crosswalk light has been replaced with a red light configuration, I'd like to see the crosswalk removed and an intersection put in with lights four ways, synced to the bridge. A bit cheaper than an overpass! They will need new traffic signalling for the bus terminal anyway.

[Keith P.]

The right most lane coming out of the Dartmouth bound tolls is a bus lane, or a bus and turn into Scotiabank lane. It could be removed when the bus terminal moves up hill.

The crosswalk light has been replaced with a red light configuration, I'd like to see the crosswalk removed and an intersection put in with lights four ways, synced to the bridge. A bit cheaper than an overpass! They will need new traffic signalling for the bus terminal anyway.

It would not be much different than what is there now given there is a red light that is controlled by pedestrians. There is minimal vehicular traffic crossing Nantucket so a full intersection would do little to assist. I doubt buses are heading out of the terminal and then going uphill on Nantucket.

I wonder if anyone at HRM actually thought about this thing before building the new gold-plated mega terminal? It would have made sense to extend the 3rd lane going uphill from the bridge to the terminal entrance on Nantucket and take advantage of what is there already. Of course this did not happen.

If the Bridge Commission ever decides that the existing 1955 East Germany toll plaza needs to go, the entire thing needs to be re-thought. While they are re-decking the bridge it would make so much sense to also do a grade-separated solution to the Wyse Rd intersection that backs traffic up horribly onto the bridge. Let traffic going to Nantucket go overhead and avoid Wyse entirely. Do the same for traffic turning left onto Wyse. But noooo.... :sly:

[Spire]

Long time lurker here, finally joining!

I doubt buses are heading out of the terminal and then going uphill on Nantucket.

When the new terminal opens, the 10, 16, and 87 will be rerouted - exiting the terminal and going uphill on Nantucket, and turning left on Victoria.

It would have made sense to extend the 3rd lane going uphill from the bridge to the terminal entrance on Nantucket and take advantage of what is there already. Of course this did not happen.

Actually, that is exactly what is happening. They've already relocated the utility poles and laid the gravel.

[Dmajackson]

Long time lurker here, finally joining!



When the new terminal opens, the 10, 16, and 87 will be rerouted - exiting the terminal and going uphill on Nantucket, and turning left on Victoria.



Actually, that is exactly what is happening. They've already relocated the utility poles and laid the gravel.

Firstly welcome to the forum :cheers:

Secondly, the 16 will actually remain on its current route. The new split will be 52/53 Highfield /64 (Wyse-Albro Lake), 16 (Wyse-Boland-Victoria), 87/10 Westphal (Nantucket-Victoria), and the 10 Dalhousie/53 Bridge (Victoria-Thistle). There will still be three buses turning right at the lights but it will be the 10, 87, and 320.

Thirdly, Yes it appears you are correct. They are also doing work on the kitty corner at this intersection. If I get the chance I will grab some photos in the morning.

[Spire]

Secondly, the 16 will actually remain on its current route. The new split will be 52/53 Highfield /64 (Wyse-Albro Lake), 16 (Wyse-Boland-Victoria), 87/10 Westphal (Nantucket-Victoria), and the 10 Dalhousie/53 Bridge (Victoria-Thistle). There will still be three buses turning right at the lights but it will be the 10, 87, and 320.

Ah, thanks for the correction. I find it curious that they'd keep the 16 on the Boland routing when they're rerouting the other routes on that corridor. It really isn't that far a walk to Victoria or the terminal from there...

[Dmajackson]

The new lane (Urban_Halifax @ Flickr)

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8155/7638763184_b43f00167a_c.jpg

[Dmajackson]

There's been some talk about diverging diamond interchanges on the national highways thread and after looking them up I think they are onto something. Basically in these interchanges it follows a standard diamond interchange pattern but the intersecting road reverses flow on the overpass. It sounds crazy but with good design it works extremely well for interchanges with high numbers of left-turns.

Article about one in Montana (http://www.popsci.com/bown/2009/product/diverging-diamond-interchange)

B5JtZMPTNAY

Currently only Halifax would require innovative thinking like this in Nova Scotia. NSTIR currently operates ~12 diamond interchanges in Greater HRM. Of these one has a split three-way approach (Larry Uteck), one has roundabouts (Margeson), two have one-way approach (Wright Ave, Aerotech), one is planned to become a highway interchange (Glendale), and five don't have enough traffic flow to warrant this solution initially.

This leaves Burnside Drive and Lacewood as the possible candidates for this design. Both currently suffer from horrendous traffic jams and both have serious issues relating to left-turns. Burnside Drive might be too cramped for this because of the 90 degree turn onto Highfield Drive however IMO this would be great for Lacewood. Throw in some bicycle lanes and proper sidewalk infrastructure and the notorious Christmas traffic jams will disappear overnight.

IMO NSTIR should use a mix of diverging diamond, standard diamond, roundabouts, parclos, and whatever 111/118 is in their interchange designs around Halifax. They can even evolve in that order (provided space is available).

[Keith P.]

Certainly seems superior to the current flavor-of-the-month roundabout. The bike lanes are of course unnecessary. :)

[HaliStreaks]

Certainly seems superior to the current flavor-of-the-month roundabout. The bike lanes are of course unnecessary. :)

http://i.imgur.com/HcrK3.jpg

This forum needs an over-sized emoticon/smiley for a decent *facepalm*

[halifaxboyns]

Interesting idea. I find it interesting that the roundabout that was built out here in Calgary for MacKenzie Towne has been a significant issue and very confusing. The city went and updated it to try to make things easier and now is having to undoe the work because it actually did the opposite! LOL

[Dmajackson]

^Maybe this is one of the cases where Halifax is smarter than Calgary? :P

Of the ten or so roundabouts spread around HRM I only have issues with two of them and not serious enough to warrant removal.

The Sackville Dr @ Margeson Dr one is way too tight. Even at the standard 30km/h in a small car it feels too fast. This could be fixed when the forth leg is constructed in a few years (connector to the proposed Beaverbank bypass called Maroon Drive I think).

The other one is Armdale. The design itself is wonderful its just it is now overcapacity for multiple hours a day. Simple traffic-light coordination and bus priority on the approaches could reduce the impact in the short-term until a permnament solution could be found (ie Northwest Arm Bridge).

[Keith P.]

The other one is Armdale. The design itself is wonderful its just it is now overcapacity for multiple hours a day. Simple traffic-light coordination and bus priority on the approaches could reduce the impact in the short-term until a permnament solution could be found (ie Northwest Arm Bridge).

I'm not so sure about bringing back traffic lights - they had them on the old rotary but never really used them. Bus priority really makes no sense since the buses are queued up on the overloaded entry routes anyway.

Imagine avoiding the huge expense of an Arm bridge with this: two ramps, one from Chebucto to the Herring Cove Road, one from Quinpool to the Bay Road. They wouldn't cost much at all yet with grade separation of those two streams I bet the majority of delay would disappear.

The problem, of course, is that the councillor for the area (Mosher) has taken a position that nothing shall obstruct the view of the Arm from Dutch Village Road. Now, why you are looking at scenic views when driving instead of traffic was never brought up, but hey, this is Halifax, we can't improve anything, can we?

I really do think this relatively cheap and simple solution makes a lot of sense. That virtually guarantees it will never happen.

[Dmajackson]

I'm not so sure about bringing back traffic lights - they had them on the old rotary but never really used them. Bus priority really makes no sense since the buses are queued up on the overloaded entry routes anyway.

I actually meant traffic lights near the roundabout but not in them. Install a set at Quinpool & MacDonald and that would allow the evening rush to be controlled to allow a break in traffic so vehicles from Chebucto and Joe Howe can get through in a reasonable time. They could also use the existing set at Chebucto & Mumford (MacDonald) to control it further.

This would be controversial but the Quinpool approach could be upgrading relatively cheap. If the two approach lanes dumped into the right and centre lanes respectively then the left lane (Herring Cove ONLY) could be marked as bus/HOV only. This would streamline the desired cars into the best lane for getting all the way around. Looking at the bus map it would help Route 32, and Route 6 could be shuffled slightly to take advantage of it as well.

Nothing inside the circle would change. Rather it would just be a slight widening (to get the lanes lined up) and new painting and signage for the Quinpool storage lanes.