[DarkArconio]

http://www2.macleans.ca/2011/01/11/stuck-in-traffic/

An excellent plan summarised by Andrew Coyne in Macleans, I think it would go a very long way to reducing all the common complaints most people on this forum seem to have about our city: sprawl, heavy traffic and transit issues. An elegant solution that would likely be the most efficient way of changing people's habits and showing them the true costs of living in a suburb and driving everywhere.

It's worth noting that at times when road congestion is low, the tolls he is proposing could perhaps be free.

[DubberDom]

I think the opposite would happen, it would likely lead to more urban sprawl as companies decide to set up along non-toll corridors.

The main issue with traffic jams is the lack of planning and vision.

Take Orleans as an example, the former Cumberland Municipality wanted to create an urban centre (Centrum) next to Place D'Orleans where you would have all retail, government and higher density development attached to public transit and a highway. When I was a kid growing up in Orleans, everything happened in the Place D'Orleans/Centrum area, and all buses lead to there. Today, Place and Centrum is a ghost town, no more theater, heck, even East Side's will be closing down... everything has been move to Big-Box drive up to the store Innes road, and the congestion is unbearable. There is to pedestrian or really effective public transit access along the 6 km stretch of retail hell they created.

Ottawa's traffic issues could be solved with a couple of projects, most of which are long overdue
1) Twin Airport Parkway and open up south end development, improve Bronson/417 access
2) Extend Nicholas to Riverside, build Alta Vista Parkway to Conroy
3) Build inter-provincial bridge at Kettle Island, grade separate Aviation parkway and improve 417/174/Aviation interchange
4) 4 full lanes along entire 417 corridor in Ottawa (planned to begin in 2012)
3) Add lane to 174 to Orleans, extend 174 to Rockland beyond Trim using new alignment south of Cumberland. Current 174 should not be twinned beyond Trim.

[Acajack]

Take Orleans as an example, the former Cumberland Municipality wanted to create an urban centre (Centrum) next to Place D'Orleans where you would have all retail, government and higher density development attached to public transit and a highway. When I was a kid growing up in Orleans, everything happened in the Place D'Orleans/Centrum area, and all buses lead to there. Today, Place and Centrum is a ghost town, no more theater, heck, even East Side's will be closing down... everything has been move to Big-Box drive up to the store Innes road, and the congestion is unbearable. There is to pedestrian or really effective public transit access along the 6 km stretch of retail hell they created.


East Side Mario's on Centrum is closing???? Is the Cumberland Arms still open?

I grew up in Orleans and it is pretty depressing when you consider what could have been in the Centrum vicinity.

In addition to a decent layout, Centrum had the advantage of being the logical eastward extension of the historic heart of the community located along St-Joseph.

What is more disheartening is that the mess on Innes was pretty much all built in the last 5-10 years. If it had happened in the 70s and 80s, I would understand more. But in the 2000s you would think planners and politicians would be a bit more enlightened and progressive and not allow this without putting up at least some type of resistance.

[DarkArconio]

Well the point is that every corridor would be a toll corridor, and driving would cost money just like talking on a cell phone (both of which you have to pay for gas or electricity to run in the first place). All roads inside and into a city experience some sort of traffic, so they would all have tolls on them. Only country roads with minimal traffic wouldn't have tolls, but anyone living along them would need to drive to work farther and farther along toll roads. It would discourage too much driving, and encourage people to live, work, and play in the nearby areas, and take public transit or walk in between them.

The complaint about planning and vision implies that city planners can somehow figure out the best design, while on the other hand making people pay the economic costs of traffic up front will make the population and market forces figure out the best city design. As it is right now someone living downtown and walking to work every day pays just as much (or more because of higher property values) to maintain the city's roads as someone who lives in barhaven and actually drives many km to work every day. Doesn't seem to make much sense to me.

[adam-machiavelli]

I think the opposite would happen, it would likely lead to more urban sprawl as companies decide to set up along non-toll corridors.

The main issue with traffic jams is the lack of planning and vision.

Ottawa's traffic issues could be solved with a couple of projects, most of which are long overdue
1) Twin Airport Parkway and open up south end development, improve Bronson/417 access

Hell no. That will make a bad situation a little better and then much worse and you'd end up with even more cars and cancer-causing pollution!

2) Extend Nicholas to Riverside, build Alta Vista Parkway to Conroy

This will just be another conduit for even more cars to choke downtown. So this gets another hell no from me. Use that route as a mass transit corridor instead.

3) Build inter-provincial bridge at Kettle Island, grade separate Aviation parkway and improve 417/174/Aviation interchange

I think the bridge is a reasonable idea but none of the other ideas. We don't need anymore freeways in this city. Out of curiosity, when you say "improve the 417/174 interchange, do you mean add more asphalt? I see no improvement there. That would again make a bad situation worse.

4) 4 full lanes along entire 417 corridor in Ottawa (planned to begin in 2012)

Ha! Not this again. Please tell me you're kidding because you'd have to be to suggest this! Most planners I talk to these days think this idea is ludicrous!

3) Add lane to 174 to Orleans, extend 174 to Rockland beyond Trim using new alignment south of Cumberland.

These ideas have been discussed and officially dismissed. The only people who want it are those who will live at the end. No one who lives along the 174 want to live near its polluting emissions.

Current 174 should not be twinned beyond Trim.

This is the only idea I think we totally agree on.

[Uhuniau]

What is more disheartening is that the mess on Innes was pretty much all built in the last 5-10 years. If it had happened in the 70s and 80s, I would understand more. But in the 2000s you would think planners and politicians would be a bit more enlightened and progressive and not allow this without putting up at least some type of resistance.

This is Ottawa, where we officially-plan one thing and then do the exact opposite, and have been doing so for forty years.

It's never going to change. Ottawans are quite happy uglifying and suburbanizing their own city into bland grey oblivion. They think it's beautiful. They love every stupid urban-planning experiment that has been inflicted on this town, the guinea pig of Canadian planning, from busways to pedmalls to Green Belts to ripping out the rail system. The only one that's ever been tried and rejected was the Rideau bus mall. Every thing else is just great, great, good old beautiful Ottawa, lots of green space and open space and public space and ceremonial space and strip malls. Beautiful. Just beautiful.

[lrt's friend]

I like that we reject building decent transit to the south end but when the only other alternative, road building is suggested, it is also rejected. You can't have it both ways. I guess the southend is transportation corridor burial ground. We have it all, we plan it all, but we build nothing.

[Uhuniau]

I like that we reject building decent transit to the south end but when the only other alternative, road building is suggested, it is also rejected. You can't have it both ways. I guess the southend is transportation corridor burial ground. We have it all, we plan it all, but we build nothing.

Welcome to Ottawa. Whatever it is, we are against it.

[McC]

I like that we reject building decent transit to the south end but when the only other alternative, road building is suggested, it is also rejected. You can't have it both ways. I guess the southend is transportation corridor burial ground. We have it all, we plan it all, but we build nothing.

twinning Limebank Rd is a pretty huge roadbuilding project for the deep south end that's been going full steam ahead NSLRT-or-no

[Kitchissippi]

The widening of Conroy, Prince of Wales and Woodroffe are also all for the benefit of the south end. In fact, aside from Innes (and the recent western Queensway widening), very little widening has been done on east-west arterials recently.

[DubberDom]

Andrew Coyne's article demonstrates that Canadian cities have some of the worst commuting times in the entire World, yet these same Canadian cities spend less on, and build fewer roads per capita... coincidence??

[DarkArconio]

And that's the thing, cities could build much better roads and public transit if they either charged you more taxes, or charged people based on road use and traffic. That money could be used to cut taxes and reinvest into better infrastructure, while encouraging people to live more urban lifestyles.

[Sven Casselman]

I think the opposite would happen, it would likely lead to more urban sprawl as companies decide to set up along non-toll corridors.

The main issue with traffic jams is the lack of planning and vision.

Take Orleans as an example, the former Cumberland Municipality wanted to create an urban centre (Centrum) next to Place D'Orleans where you would have all retail, government and higher density development attached to public transit and a highway. When I was a kid growing up in Orleans, everything happened in the Place D'Orleans/Centrum area, and all buses lead to there. Today, Place and Centrum is a ghost town, no more theater, heck, even East Side's will be closing down... everything has been move to Big-Box drive up to the store Innes road, and the congestion is unbearable. There is to pedestrian or really effective public transit access along the 6 km stretch of retail hell they created.

Ottawa's traffic issues could be solved with a couple of projects, most of which are long overdue
1) Twin Airport Parkway and open up south end development, improve Bronson/417 access
2) Extend Nicholas to Riverside, build Alta Vista Parkway to Conroy
3) Build inter-provincial bridge at Kettle Island, grade separate Aviation parkway and improve 417/174/Aviation interchange
4) 4 full lanes along entire 417 corridor in Ottawa (planned to begin in 2012)
3) Add lane to 174 to Orleans, extend 174 to Rockland beyond Trim using new alignment south of Cumberland. Current 174 should not be twinned beyond Trim.


God I friggin excited to hear about 4 full lanes...I am sick of being stuck in 2 hours of traffic going from Orleans to Centertown every day. Makes me almost want to start using public transportation.....almost...