[haventusedityet]

Hi, I'd really like to have your opinion on which city I should call home. I currently live in Winnipeg and have been thinking about possibly moving to a different city (in Canada). I only speak English, like cheap housing, don't mind cold, don't mind heat, don't mind rain, love the sun, love warm temperatures, love dry climates, love mild winters, love hills, love big cities, and don't mind mid sized cities. I'm not sure if it's worth my time to leave Winnipeg and spend a few years in a different city.

Please help :)

[-Harlington-]

From what you mentioned id say Halifax or Toronto and maybe Montreal if you dont mind the french and if it wasnt for the cheap housing one id say one of the BC cities you put
and i have to represent, so, aha
i dont know to much about the other cities but if theres anything about Halifax you want to know just ask :tup:

[haljackey]

London is Canada's most mid-sized city. If you like the city feel without all the hustle and bustle of the metropolis, but with enough stuff to do to stay in town, then it's a good choose. Housing prices are ok for this neck of the woods.

Another good choice that isn't in your list is Kitchener/Waterloo. They're a little smaller on the mid-size scale. Same goes for Saskatoon and Regina.

If you can't speak French I wouldn't recommend anywhere in Quebec. (Maybe Montreal.)

[Denscity]

You cant have a cheap place to live and warm temperatures in this country but some small place in Kelowna is about the closest ur gonna get.

[bicycles]

stay in Winnipeg! you'll miss it

[SpikePhanta]

Kelowna but it might get boring if you get bored of the beauty and nature activities.

[Bdog]

This reminds me of the lady who created an online poll about whether to keep her baby or not. Who are we to decide where you should live? :haha:

[kw5150]

ok, no one say Calgary............. I can only imagine the shitstorm of negative comments. But, seriously......everyone has fun here. Maybe you have to leave Winnipeg to really appreciate it.......you can always move back there when you get sick of having no lakes!

It usually takes about two years for the glamour of the mountains to wear off so you never know what you will find in those two years..... Out of 100 people who come here, probably only about 15 stay forever!

...........skip the facts below if you want and go down to the bottom of this post!............

The inner city is good for a city of a million. We have our issues, but for the most part you really can do without a car and live very well. You can get to almost any amenity on the c-train and the rail lines connect to many, many malls (large indoor malls and sprawling suburban town centres), libraries, theatres and most importantly the vibrant core. Along the c-train line are many communities and you can just take your pick where you want to live and hopefuly make it so that you can also get to your office. There are some exciting urban changes happening right now and it really is a nice small city. If you bike, things are moving forward as well as far as designated lanes. The bike paths are a true gem though.

The climate is ok but we get these swells of hot (30+) dry summers that border on drought. On those hot years, rain events are very few right through until october. The winter is mild-cool and likely to be sunny. The chinooks are truly a phenomenon to experience and the air smells extra fresh on those days. Calgary can also get quite cold and the temperature swings up and down dramitically.

.......................end of facts....................

Overall, I like living here in this city full of people that aren't born here and complain about it!! Yes, we only have a few lakes near Calgary that are warm enough to swim in.........but we have the mountains...and great skiing, especially with BC near by as well!!

Actually I heard people from Winnipeg prefer Edmonton. Edmonton is a fun city as well!! Live near white ave for a good time!! Edmonton is a reasonable distance from the mountains and Jasper national park which is breathtaking.

[Metro-One]

I put Kelowna, it actually has a nice downtown and it is very active during the summer months, and it best fits your desire for the sun, hot, dry mix with mild winters (the Okanagan has milder winters on average than any of the other cities you posted on there outside of Vancouver)

The city you did not put on there that I think may fit you best for a change of scenery from Winnipeg, with the mildest winters in Canada and the driest summer in Canada for a 100 000 + metro area is Victoria.

[MonkeyRonin]

"only speak English, like cheap housing, don't mind cold, don't mind heat, don't mind rain, love the sun, love warm temperatures, love dry climates, love mild winters, love hills"

Sounds like Kelowna...

"love big cities"

...but for that, your only true options are Toronto or Montreal. And being that you don't speak French, we can narrow that down to just Toronto.

So...your choices are either Kelowna if you want your perfect setting, or Toronto if you want your big city. Or, I suppose Vancouver could kind of fit in a middle-ground between them.

[1ajs]

go to montreal!

[Nouvellecosse]

Halifax is milder than Winnipeg, has lots of hills, is mainly English speaking, has a fun vibe despite its smallish size, and the housing is a bit cheaper than most larger places in Can (although not a lot cheaper than MTL). The only downside would be the loving dry climates bit. We get our fair share (sometimes more) of precipitation and even fog sometimes.

The summer's usually pretty sunny though.

[BretttheRiderFan]

"only speak English, like cheap housing, don't mind cold, don't mind heat, don't mind rain, love the sun, love warm temperatures, love dry climates, love mild winters, love hills"

Sounds like Kelowna...

"love big cities"

...but for that, your only true options are Toronto or Montreal. And being that you don't speak French, we can narrow that down to just Toronto.

So...your choices are either Kelowna if you want your perfect setting, or Toronto if you want your big city. Or, I suppose Vancouver could kind of fit in a middle-ground between them.

So you don't consider Vancouver a big city?

As for the OP

Why are you moving?

What do you do for a living?

What opportunities are there for your field of employment in these cities?

Don't move somewhere just because of the weather

In your poll, why did you even bother putting Montreal or Quebec City in, if you can't speak French good luck getting a decent job in either city (but especially Quebec you can't live there without being able to speak French)

[BretttheRiderFan]

go to montreal!

What part of "I only speak English" don't you understand?

[Dalreg]

What part of "I only speak English" don't you understand?

Have you been to Montreal? You can get by quite well only speaking engllish.:rolleyes:

[PoscStudent]

I would have selected neither if I could, you should go to St. John's!

[MolsonExport]

What about Sanikiluaq?

[freeweed]

Have you been to Montreal? You can get by quite well only speaking engllish.:rolleyes:

For varying definitions of "quite well". It can still be difficult for some people to get a job there if you're truly unilingual.

[Bigtime]

Calgary's full, try Edmonton. :D

[big T]

For varying definitions of "quite well". It can still be difficult for some people to get a job there if you're truly unilingual.

Yeah, if only languages could be learned rather than determined at birth...

[The_Architect]

Go to Alert. Definitely Alert. :)

[Deepstar]

I suggested Calgary, but then again it's my hometown and thus biased - just like every other suggestion you'll get here ;)

Try visiting the different cities and checking them out. Even then, that doesn't always do it. I went to Vancouver when I was 15 and it was my dream to move there. 4 years later I did, and for the most part enjoyed it, but once I finished school I decided to move back to Calgary.

P.S., it's early morning in January and it's +8C outside :)

[freeweed]

Try visiting the different cities and checking them out. Even then, that doesn't always do it. I went to Vancouver when I was 15 and it was my dream to move there. 4 years later I did, and for the most part enjoyed it, but once I finished school I decided to move back to Calgary.

As the kids today say: this. Except I wouldn't just say visit, I'd say move.

If work leads you to a city, then fine, that helps make your decision. But if you're truly open to anywhere (because you can work anywhere) - then just move somewhere for a year or three. Try it out. If you don't like it, or still want to try another, do it again. After a few cities I suspect you'll begin to narrow down what you're really looking for.

[freeweed]

Yeah, if only languages could be learned rather than determined at birth...

Yeah, if only everyone understood that and didn't look down on folks who learned something as a second (or third, or fourth) language...

[GORDBO]

I picked Kelowna. However, that was before I read your post. Regarding cheap housing! Might as well stay in the Peg!:haha:

[ciudad_del_norte]

With that description of "likes" and "don't minds" I feel like almost any canadian city could apply. Because you don't seem too picky about weather or size it might be helpful to try to figure out what sort of feel you are looking for in a city and what sort of things you like to do... Arts and Festivals? Busy streets and nightlife? Outdoor activities?



Actually I heard people from Winnipeg prefer Edmonton.
I haven't heard that before but that's interesting. Although I could see it I guess, to me Winnipeg and Edmonton both have a similar sort of bohemian vibe.

[vid]

Well, pretty much all of that rules out Thunder Bay.

We're like Winnipeg's younger, retarded brother anyway. You're better off in Kelowna. :yes:

[Airboy]

What about Sanikiluaq?

The commuting from Rankin is sketchy

[flar]

Move to Hamilton

[freeweed]

I haven't heard that before but that's interesting. Although I could see it I guess, to me Winnipeg and Edmonton both have a similar sort of bohemian vibe.

Edmonton and Winnipeg are very similar in a lot of ways, at least compared to other Canadian cities. Similar size, similar climate, similar workforce demographic, similar surrounding areas for recreation (compared to say Vancouver or Calgary, anyway). People from Winnipeg generally prefer Edmonton to Calgary, that's for sure. It feels more like home.

If the original poster was wanting something "different, but not too different", I'd say try Edmonton. However my suspicion is that this person wants an actual tangible change. So I'd go with what you first mentioned - what do you like? Festivals? Outdoor activities? Etc.

[MonkeyRonin]

So you don't consider Vancouver a big city?

Its sizable, sure, but no I don't really consider it "big". For a genuine big city experience in Canada, your choices are either Toronto or Montreal.

[feepa]

Calgary's full pathetic flames fans wearing cowboy boots thinking they have some sort of rural attachment when they have only just moved from Toronto, or their parents did, try Edmonton for a fresh approach to city living not full of pretentious, smug former Torontoians. :D
Fixed that for you...you're welcome

(in jest of course)

[Bigtime]

Feepa! http://img177.imageshack.us/img177/6731/frankemoticon.gif

[Tarsus]

My belief is that eight out of every ten people are happy with their hometown, and really only move for opportunity. Calgary's a great place for opportunity, and decent place to live. I'd stick with one of the big cities that offer young people a good opportunity..Toronto, Calgary, Vancouver, Ottawa, Edmonton, etc... You'll probably be happy enough in any of those cities.

[freeweed]

My belief is that the vast majority of people are "happy" with whatever they've become accustomed to, because they have no real direct experience with anything else and because change is scary for most of us.

Part of me wishes there was a reasonable way to force everyone to move at least a few times in their lives, just to see if they truly are "happy" where they are, or if it's more of an inertia thing.

[Surrealplaces]

All you have to do is look at this forum to see that almost everyone loves their hometown city.....so really you would probably be happy anywhere. It's all what you make of it.

[BretttheRiderFan]

Its sizable, sure, but no I don't really consider it "big". For a genuine big city experience in Canada, your choices are either Toronto or Montreal.

So what exactly are these big city experiences that can be had in Montreal but not Vancouver? I love the city of Montreal, its easily the most unique in the country and my personal favourite to visit, but IMO it doesn't have any more of a big city feel than Vancouver. Especially considering Vancouver is the denser of the two, has a more ethnically diverse population, and has far better scenery and views. What exactly makes Montreal more urban than Vancouver? Is it the subway? The fact that it's older? I'm interested to see what you feel gives Montreal more of a big city feel than Vancouver

[Metro-One]

:previous: Dude, why are you trying to poke the hive, the last thing I want to read on this thread is a bunch of forum members from Ontario and Quebec spouting off on how Montreal and Toronto are so superior to Vancouver.

Again, I wish to ask why Victoria was not on this list, i still think it meets all of the climate and scenery requirements the original poster listed and also it is a decent sized city with a great core.

[kw5150]

:previous: Dude, why are you trying to poke the hive, the last thing I want to read on this thread is a bunch of forum members from Ontario and Quebec spouting off on how Montreal and Toronto are so superior to Vancouver.

Again, I wish to ask why Victoria was not on this list, i still think it meets all of the climate and scenery requirements the original poster listed and also it is a decent sized city with a great core.

good idea......add victoria to the list! I think it is kind of expensive though...right?

[Metro-One]

It is, but not as much as Vancouver (and the climate is better than Vancouver's) so it is a win win for a west coast experiance.

[Dmajackson]

It is, but not as much as Vancouver (and the climate is better than Vancouver's) so it is a win win for a west coast experiance.

There's no coast like the East Coast.

All I have to say is when making this decision take into account Halifax is on the RIGHT coast. :P

[Cambridgite]

Hi, I'd really like to have your opinion on which city I should call home. I currently live in Winnipeg and have been thinking about possibly moving to a different city (in Canada). I only speak English, like cheap housing, don't mind cold, don't mind heat, don't mind rain, love the sun, love warm temperatures, love dry climates, love mild winters, love hills, love big cities, and don't mind mid sized cities. I'm not sure if it's worth my time to leave Winnipeg and spend a few years in a different city.

Please help :)

If you don't like expensive cities, you can forget Toronto, Calgary, Edmonton, and basically all of BC. You could probably get by as an anglo in Montreal or Ottawa, but not as easily as elsewhere. Forget Quebec City.

There are a number of mid-cities cities outside of the GTA worth considering. London, Hamilton, Kitchener area, Guelph, Barrie, Kingston. Each one is a little different. Each has it's own distinct character, it's own pros/con, plus they're reasonably close to Toronto if you only plan to go to the big city once in a while.

Do you mind living in nice, mid-cities cities that are really isolated from other cities? That would increase your options substantially. Halifax and St. John's are pretty nice, but you have to travel really long distances to get to the next hub of civilization.

[PoscStudent]

If you don't like expensive cities, you can forget Toronto, Calgary, Edmonton, and basically all of BC. You could probably get by as an anglo in Montreal or Ottawa, but not as easily as elsewhere. Forget Quebec City.

There are a number of mid-cities cities outside of the GTA worth considering. London, Hamilton, Kitchener area, Guelph, Barrie, Kingston. Each one is a little different. Each has it's own distinct character, it's own pros/con, plus they're reasonably close to Toronto if you only plan to go to the big city once in a while.

Do you mind living in nice, mid-cities cities that are really isolated from other cities? That would increase your options substantially. Halifax and St. John's are pretty nice, but you have to travel really long distances to get to the next hub of civilization.

In about 3 hours on a plane you could be in Toronto, England or Orlando from St. John's. Not to bad.

[MTLskyline]

Based on your criteria I'd recommend Halifax to you. It should be different enough from Winnipeg to be interesting, yet won't be an extremely radical change.

[MonkeyRonin]

So what exactly are these big city experiences that can be had in Montreal but not Vancouver? I love the city of Montreal, its easily the most unique in the country and my personal favourite to visit, but IMO it doesn't have any more of a big city feel than Vancouver. Especially considering Vancouver is the denser of the two, has a more ethnically diverse population, and has far better scenery and views. What exactly makes Montreal more urban than Vancouver? Is it the subway? The fact that it's older? I'm interested to see what you feel gives Montreal more of a big city feel than Vancouver

First of all, we'll have to make a few corrections here:

1. Vancouver is not denser than Montreal.
2. Vancouver is not more ethnically diverse than Montreal.
3. Scenery and views have nothing to do with urbanity.

Anyway, so why is Montreal more of a "big city" than Vancouver?

1. Its population is nearly twice the size.
2. Its more centralized - Vancouver is multi-nodal, which means there are a bunch of small urban centres, but not much between them. In Montreal you have a massive core and then miles of dense low-rise residential and mixed-use neighbourhoods sprawling out in all directions (well, not to the east, being water and all).
3. More densely populated. Also, because that density is achieved mainly through packed in low-rise buildings it feels more urban than glass towers with massive podiums scattered about.
4. Its older, which is why the above is true. The reality is that a lot more of Vancouver's growth has occurred in the post-war period, a time of mass suburban development.
5. It has more "urban amenities", like a proper subway & commuter rail system.
6. More vibrant in general...more people on the streets, more things going on, etc. Vancouver is a more outdoorsy kinda place, whereby people are more likely going to go for a hike or skiing instead of to a nightclub or art gallery or festival like they would in Montreal.
7. Its more affordable. And because the pre-war inner-city areas are more expensive, anyone can live a proper urban lifestyle in Montreal (and millions do). In Vancouver your choices are more limited and those choices are typically out of reach to all but the wealthy.


Dude, why are you trying to poke the hive, the last thing I want to read on this thread is a bunch of forum members from Ontario and Quebec spouting off on how Montreal and Toronto are so superior to Vancouver.

There's nothing bad about Vancouver, its just a smaller city than Toronto and Montreal. Thats all there is to it.

[Cambridgite]

In about 3 hours on a plane you could be in Toronto, England or Orlando from St. John's. Not to bad.

But you still have to get on a plane. That's my point.

[Metro-One]

There's no coast like the East Coast.

All I have to say is when making this decision take into account Halifax is on the RIGHT coast. :P


I believe it goes more like this, to the left is the Best Coast. to the right is the Least coast. :haha:

[Ayreonaut]

In about 3 hours on a plane you could be in Toronto, England or Orlando from St. John's. Not to bad.

Don't kid yourself. This city has many positive qualities, but it is one of the most isolated places I've been to.

As for the OP's topic. Being from Calgary, I know a tonne of people that move to either Kelowna or Vic at least for a while. Both can be expensive, but I have friends living comfortably in both places quite reasonably. While I probably wouldn't live in either for an extended period, I don't know anybody who's been unhappy while living in them. Kelowna doesn't really have the whole 'city' thing down, but its climate is pretty tough to beat. I think if I were to move to one of BC's smaller cities, it would be Nanaimo, but there really isn't a bad town in that province (I've heard PG isn't great, but haven't been there myself).

Personally, if I were to just up and move to another city in Canada, it would be Ottawa...freakin' love that place.

[BretttheRiderFan]

First of all, we'll have to make a few corrections here:

1. Vancouver is not denser than Montreal.
2. Vancouver is not more ethnically diverse than Montreal.
3. Scenery and views have nothing to do with urbanity.

Anyway, so why is Montreal more of a "big city" than Vancouver?

1. Its population is nearly twice the size.
2. Its more centralized - Vancouver is multi-nodal, which means there are a bunch of small urban centres, but not much between them. In Montreal you have a massive core and then miles of dense low-rise residential and mixed-use neighbourhoods sprawling out in all directions (well, not to the east, being water and all).
3. More densely populated. Also, because that density is achieved mainly through packed in low-rise buildings it feels more urban than glass towers with massive podiums scattered about.
4. Its older, which is why the above is true. The reality is that a lot more of Vancouver's growth has occurred in the post-war period, a time of mass suburban development.
5. It has more "urban amenities", like a proper subway & commuter rail system.
6. More vibrant in general...more people on the streets, more things going on, etc. Vancouver is a more outdoorsy kinda place, whereby people are more likely going to go for a hike or skiing instead of to a nightclub or art gallery or festival like they would in Montreal.
7. Its more affordable. And because the pre-war inner-city areas are more expensive, anyone can live a proper urban lifestyle in Montreal (and millions do). In Vancouver your choices are more limited and those choices are typically out of reach to all but the wealthy.




There's nothing bad about Vancouver, its just a smaller city than Toronto and Montreal. Thats all there is to it.

I'm talking about the city of Vancouver and the city of Montreal, not the metro areas

In that regard Vancouver IS denser than Montreal

And yes, Vancouver is more ethnically diverse than Montreal

[MonkeyRonin]

I'm talking about the city of Vancouver and the city of Montreal, not the metro areas

In that regard Vancouver IS denser than Montreal

And yes, Vancouver is more ethnically diverse than Montreal


Vancouver's municipality being slightly denser than Montreal's is meaningless - they're not comparable. Vancouver's has only 25% of the metro population while Montreal's has 47%. If the rates were equal, Montreal's density would be much higher, as we can see from Flar's handy density chart (http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/4190/density.jpg).

As for diversity, being that its something thats semi-subjective, its hard to say that one is more diverse than the other. Just because Vancouver has less white people doesn't make it more diverse. Basically, Vancouver has a greater diversity of Asians and more immigrants, while Montreal has a greater diversity of Europeans, plus more people from Latin America, the Caribbean, Africa, and the Middle East, plus the diversity created from its bilingualism.

[Vaillant]

Have you been to Montreal? You can get by quite well only speaking engllish.:rolleyes:

but if you think moving to a french city and not speak french you are not welcome! ;)

[big T]

Yeah, if only everyone understood that and didn't look down on folks who learned something as a second (or third, or fourth) language...

It's far from the majority though, i've found most people to be supportive of those who make the effort to learn a second language.
Anyway, it's just something funny i've noticed here when I say I moved from Montreal. On a bunch of occasions I had someone tell me "oh I'd love to live there, if only I could speak French"! well guess what, you're not going to pick it up by staying in Vancouver. Of course the flipside is that you have to be somewhat functional in the local language before you can realistically get a job (especially customer facing), and this is true pretty much anywhere. So it is a significant commitment, but by no means an impossible task if you invest the time.
Not trying to stir up a mess, but I find it funny. I guess I should use smileys more.

Anyway, back to our regularly scheduled home boosterism now... I'm not even suggesting the OP move to Montreal, and there are likely a few better choices for him.

[MonkeyRonin]

but if you think moving to a french city and not speak french you are not welcome! ;)

Its not a French city, its a bilingual city.

[big T]

Its not a French city, its a bilingual city.
Hardly. Try getting a job without functional French there -- I know people who have tried, and outside of some very specific (and, as it happens, very marginal to the city's economy) fields, it's a non-starter.
Of course, functional French isn't all that hard to reach, either.

[MonkeyRonin]

Hardly. Try getting a job without functional French there -- I know people who have tried, and outside of some very specific (and, as it happens, very marginal to the city's economy) fields, it's a non-starter.
Of course, functional French isn't all that hard to reach, either.

Perhaps, but when the majority of the Island of Montreal's first language is something other than French, I wouldn't really call it a "French city", I'd call it bilingual or multilingual, especially given the city's history of having a mix of French and English. Though my comment was more specifically directed to Vaillant's "if you don't speak French you are not welcome" - which is a racist sentiment, quite simply.

[shreddog]

Go to Ottawa ... IMHO I think every Canadian should live in Ottawa for a couple years of their life. BTW, in this context, Ottawa means both sides of the river!

After that, go live in Africa, South America or Antartica (ha). Life is too short too live it all in the "same" place.

[BretttheRiderFan]

Perhaps, but when the majority of the Island of Montreal's first language is something other than French, I wouldn't really call it a "French city", I'd call it bilingual or multilingual, especially given the city's history of having a mix of French and English. Though my comment was more specifically directed to Vaillant's "if you don't speak French you are not welcome" - which is a racist sentiment, quite simply.

Actually 66 percent of the city's mother tongue is French. Just over half the city is bilingual. It is certainly more of a French city than a bilingual one, as 80 percent can speak French.

[MonkeyRonin]

Actually 66 percent of the city's mother tongue is French. Just over half the city is bilingual. It is certainly more of a French city than a bilingual one, as 80 percent can speak French.


Not sure where you're getting your info from, but from Statcan's data... http://www12.statcan.ca/census-recensement/2006/dp-pd/prof/92-591/details/page.cfm?Lang=E&Geo1=CSD&Code1=2466023&Geo2=PR&Code2=24&Data=Count&SearchText=montreal&SearchType=Begins&SearchPR=01&B1=All&Custom= and http://www12.statcan.ca/census-recensement/2006/dp-pd/prof/92-591/details/page.cfm?Lang=E&Geo1=CMA&Code1=462&Geo2=PR&Code2=24&Data=Count&SearchText=montreal&SearchType=Begins&SearchPR=01&B1=All&Custom= ...that is not the case.

52% of Montreal's municipality's mother tongue is "French only", while only 39% of the CMA's is. Interesting to note that 52% of the CMA's population answered "both English & French" as their mother tongue.

[MTLskyline]

Hardly. Try getting a job without functional French there -- I know people who have tried, and outside of some very specific (and, as it happens, very marginal to the city's economy) fields, it's a non-starter.
Of course, functional French isn't all that hard to reach, either.

It is equally hard to get a decent (non government) job without knowledge of English.

[Darkoshvilli]

Not sure where you're getting your info from, but from Statcan's data... http://www12.statcan.ca/census-recensement/2006/dp-pd/prof/92-591/details/page.cfm?Lang=E&Geo1=CSD&Code1=2466023&Geo2=PR&Code2=24&Data=Count&SearchText=montreal&SearchType=Begins&SearchPR=01&B1=All&Custom= and http://www12.statcan.ca/census-recensement/2006/dp-pd/prof/92-591/details/page.cfm?Lang=E&Geo1=CMA&Code1=462&Geo2=PR&Code2=24&Data=Count&SearchText=montreal&SearchType=Begins&SearchPR=01&B1=All&Custom= ...that is not the case.

52% of Montreal's municipality's mother tongue is "French only", while only 39% of the CMA's is. Interesting to note that 52% of the CMA's population answered "both English & French" as their mother tongue.
No to mention that the 1.6m population figure in those links doesn't take into account some of the demerged inner city towns that are all mostly english, like Westmount, Hampstead and CSL. So if you add those people the 52% drops even further.

[vanatox]

Perhaps, but when the majority of the Island of Montreal's first language is something other than French, I wouldn't really call it a "French city", I'd call it bilingual or multilingual, especially given the city's history of having a mix of French and English. Though my comment was more specifically directed to Vaillant's "if you don't speak French you are not welcome" - which is a racist sentiment, quite simply.


To take the defense of Vaillant, haven't you seen the smiley at the end of his sentence?

[vanatox]

Not sure where you're getting your info from, but from Statcan's data... http://www12.statcan.ca/census-recensement/2006/dp-pd/prof/92-591/details/page.cfm?Lang=E&Geo1=CSD&Code1=2466023&Geo2=PR&Code2=24&Data=Count&SearchText=montreal&SearchType=Begins&SearchPR=01&B1=All&Custom= and http://www12.statcan.ca/census-recensement/2006/dp-pd/prof/92-591/details/page.cfm?Lang=E&Geo1=CMA&Code1=462&Geo2=PR&Code2=24&Data=Count&SearchText=montreal&SearchType=Begins&SearchPR=01&B1=All&Custom= ...that is not the case.

52% of Montreal's municipality's mother tongue is "French only", while only 39% of the CMA's is. Interesting to note that 52% of the CMA's population answered "both English & French" as their mother tongue.

You mixed knowledge of one of the official language of Canada and mother tongue. Yes, a good chunk of the population of the CMA know both french and english but more than 2 300 000 on a total of 3 600 000 have french as mother tongue...

[freeweed]

Though my comment was more specifically directed to Vaillant's "if you don't speak French you are not welcome" - which is a racist sentiment, quite simply.

Against which race, exactly?

Words have meaning, people. Learn them. Love them. Live them.

[SpikePhanta]

Monkey have you've ever been to vancouver?

[MonkeyRonin]

You mixed knowledge of one of the official language of Canada and mother tongue.

You're right, my bad...for the CMA its 65% with a mother tongue of French. However, my point still stands that they're <50% on just the Island.


Against which race, exactly?

Words have meaning, people. Learn them. Love them. Live them.

So, "People who speak [whatever language] aren't welcome here" isn't racist? How about if we change that to "People of [whatever skin colour] aren't welcome here" - you'd agree thats racist right? So then whats the first one then, languagist?


Monkey have you've ever been to vancouver?

Yes, in 2007. I doubt the city has grown or changed considerably since then.

[freeweed]

So, "People who speak [whatever language] aren't welcome here" isn't racist? How about if we change that to "People of [whatever skin colour] aren't welcome here" - you'd agree thats racist right? So then whats the first one then, languagist?

Actually yeah, although a word really doesn't exist that I can think of. Much like saying negative things about religion, it can be discriminatory but it's not racism.

If you wonder why I make a distinction - religion and language are not immutable identities like skin colour is. You can't legally deny someone a job because of their skin colour, but you sure as shit can for their language, presuming there's a language requirement. They're both discrimination but one is at least potentially justifiable. The other is pure intolerance.

Anyway, "race" is such a poorly defined concept that we could argue for hours. However most educated people who use the term would not apply it to groups defined solely by linguistics - does my "race" change if I move to Quebec and start speaking French?

I'm being pedantic, but like I said, words have meaning. "Racist" is used for such ridiculous things these days - I've even seen people use the word when describing people picking on emo kids. No, I'm not making that up.

[vid]

So, "People who speak [whatever language] aren't welcome here" isn't racist? How about if we change that to "People of [whatever skin colour] aren't welcome here" - you'd agree thats racist right?

"People who speak [whatever language] aren't welcome here" is as racist as it is sexist.

Racist and sexist have definitions and your example falls into neither. Discrimination based on language is called linguicism.

[dleung]

lol the results of this thread really shows how few Torontonians frequent SSP. It would be completely different on SSC.

[MonkeyRonin]

lol the results of this thread really shows how few Torontonians frequent SSP. It would be completely different on SSC.


lol, the poll results really do look like a forum census, don't they? ;)

[Vaillant]

Perhaps, but when the majority of the Island of Montreal's first language is something other than French, I wouldn't really call it a "French city", I'd call it bilingual or multilingual, especially given the city's history of having a mix of French and English. Though my comment was more specifically directed to Vaillant's "if you don't speak French you are not welcome" - which is a racist sentiment, quite simply.

i am not racist i was saying a comment because i care for my language, if people want to speak english only, they have many other place they can live in north america then why coming to Quebec if you don't care about respecting the culture and language??

[freeweed]

i am not racist i was saying a comment because i care for my language, if people want to speak english only, they have many other place they can live in north america then why coming to Quebec if you don't care about respecting the culture and language??

Because we're trying to take you over and destroy French everything, duh. :rolleyes:

[MonkeyRonin]

i am not racist i was saying a comment because i care for my language, if people want to speak english only, they have many other place they can live in north america then why coming to Quebec if you don't care about respecting the culture and language??


An English speaker simply speaking English is not a threat to your language and culture. Especially in Montreal, where half the population already does that and has for centuries...its not a "French city" as you claimed (its a multilingual, multicultural one), if you want a purely French city, go to Quebec City.

And while you might not be "racist", you are discriminatory and xenophobic.

[kool maudit]

diversity has nothing to do with with the "big city" experience. it's a totally unrelated issue. there are many very large centres that are far more ethnically homogeneous than any of the bigger canadian cities.

re: vancouver and montreal, i've been to vancouver. outside of the small area with all of the glass towers, the neighbourhoods are largely inadequate.

the houses are not even joined together there.

[kool maudit]

i am not racist i was saying a comment because i care for my language, if people want to speak english only, they have many other place they can live in north america then why coming to Quebec if you don't care about respecting the culture and language??


montreal was a majority anglophone city for many years. it is not simply just "part of quebec" in the same way that jonquiere or rimouski is. it's montreal. it's its own thing.

[Jimby]

I chose Victoria for you, you'll never regret my choice for you!
Since Victoria wasn't in the poll, I voted for Vancouver, but I meant Victoria.
Canada's population is shifting from east to west so you might as well go as far west as you can go.
If you want a job, then dynamic Calgary is the obvious place to be.

[davidivivid]

It's weird how Quebec City's path diverged completely from that of Montreal when you think that at some point, 40% of its population was anglophone... That being said, Quebec City is a wonderful place to live and though it is small, there is still a very active englo community.

[vanatox]

montreal was a majority anglophone city for many years. it is not simply just "part of quebec" in the same way that jonquiere or rimouski is. it's montreal. it's its own thing.

From my history books, Montreal has been a majority anglophone city (by a slight margin) for a brief period between 1830 and 1850 due to a flood of immigrants from the british Isles. Since then, the population has been definitively more french speaking.

I agree with the fact that Montreal is a bilingual city and that many other languages are spoken. This is a great asset for the city. I like it. However, looking at facts such as data from stat can, the city is more french-speaking city than english-speaking or any other languages. It is also the cultural heart of french speaking canada/Quebec. It is the metropolis, the big city. It is not just part of Quebec, it is a huge part of Quebec.

[kool maudit]

it is also a huge part of english speaking canada, having produced its largest companies, its greatest writers (imo) and a whole array of other cultural, economic and educational institutions.

it is the historic metropolis of english canada as well as french canada.

[Jimby]

it is also a huge part of english speaking canada, having produced its largest companies, its greatest writers (imo) and a whole array of other cultural, economic and educational institutions.

it is the historic metropolis of english canada as well as french canada.

absolutely.

[vanatox]

Montreal can be a huge part of Canada and a huge part of Quebec at the same time. It can be important for english and french Canada.

My comment was more related to what is Montreal now. A multilingual city, located in a mostly french speaking province in which french is the language spoken by the largest number of people and in which this reality is reflected.

[MonkeyRonin]

diversity has nothing to do with with the "big city" experience. it's a totally unrelated issue. there are many very large centres that are far more ethnically homogeneous than any of the bigger canadian cities.


Its not the deciding factor, but it absolutely has a lot do with urbanity. It doesn't necessarily have to come in the form of ethnic diversity, but so much of the "big city experience" comes from the wide assortment of people all living amongst each other and coexisting.

[freeweed]

I wouldn't waste your time; diversity is an undesirable thing to some people and you won't win points claiming a place is any better as a result.

Personally, I couldn't imagine NYC if it was just full of white British dudes - I guess it would be a "big city" by the dictionary definition of those two words, but not in the spirit of the phrase in the slightest.

[floobie]

I voted Calgary. I have no reason to do that, except that I live there. That's really all the poll is: pimp your city!

Honestly, I have no idea what to answer. I'm quite confident that there are so many subjective elements involved in a decision like this, that no answer anyone could possibly give here, no matter how well they know the OP could possibly be of any real use.

Hell, I could barely answer this question for myself. If I weren't sort of tied down to Calgary for the moment due to my current choice of career, I have no idea where I'd go. I'd definitely like to explore a bit, but I can't even come close to definitively saying where I'd endeavor to live. While there are definitely some objective variables one needs to take into account, this is primarily a subjective decision. For instance, you'll probably be a lot more willing to deal with higher living expenses if you love everything else about a city.

I'd seriously just visit a few of these places, or recall past experiences with some of them.

So, I'll provide the only useful information I can. I'll talk about Calgary.

It's nice. The summers are absolutely beautiful. I love being here in the summers. Walking along the river for an afternoon in the summer is such a nice experience. The winters can get pretty lame, but there's sufficient relief from the cold courtesy of the chinooks. If you're into wintersports, this is a great place to be. I'm not, so winter can completely fuck off, as far as I'm concerned... but that's just me.

Downtown has its appeal. The deeper depths of the CBD can be a little bland, but any place of pure enterprise is like that, as far as I'm concerned. You don't go to an office building to have fun. There are definitely several pockets of interest, though. The core is shaping up to be quite a retail experience. Stephen Avenue is awesome in general. The beltline is really starting to hit its stride as well. Kensington is awesome. Marda Loop is really nice, from what I've experienced. I find the deeper southeast of the city pretty unappealing, though. It could just be the relative lack of topography, compared to the rest of the city.

Getting around the city is pretty easy. Traffic can get pretty bad during rush hour, but I'm sure it could be way worse. If you want to live without a car, I think you absolutely can. Choosing a home near a C-Train station would certainly make things easier, though. The C-Train is pretty damn good. I'm not a fan of the buses, though, and avoid them at all costs. That's probably more neighborhood dependent, though.

Expensive is relative. Calgary is probably overall a bit cheaper than Vancouver. Based on a quick search of mls.ca, a condo in/near downtown Calgary is quite a lot cheaper than one in/near downtown Vancouver.

[kool maudit]

I wouldn't waste your time; diversity is an undesirable thing to some people and you won't win points claiming a place is any better as a result.

Personally, I couldn't imagine NYC if it was just full of white British dudes - I guess it would be a "big city" by the dictionary definition of those two words, but not in the spirit of the phrase in the slightest.



again you persist in your tiresome efforts to portray me as some sort of bigot.

i live in one of the country's most diverse neighbourhoods, at the epicentre of canada's oldest immigrant quarter.

why would i do this if i didn't perceive the benefits of a diverse population?

i have patiently explained my stance on this issue to you, and painstakingly rebutted your repeated accusations and imputations.

at this point, you're acting in bad faith.

honestly, freeweed?

go fuck yourself.

[Jay in Cowtown]

If I were to ever leave the Calgary area for somewhere else in Canada it would be for 2 reasons... cheaper living and weather. Out of curiousity I have checked house prices and job market/salaries elsewhere. If I took the equity out of my house here I could buy a 3500sq/ft 3 car garage house on a lake in Windsor, Ontario with a mortgage of about $300,000. The same job I do here pays about $20,000 less there but my wife's would actually pay more, and I'd be right beside Detroit for MLB, NFL, NHL games and cheap shopping. But most importantly Windsor's summers are alot hotter and longer than Calgary's!

but me moving? that's highly unlikely... I love where I grew up and still live, my friends & family are here and aside from spending the winters south when I get older, I'll be staying here!

[freeweed]

The absolute microsecond anyone says anything remotely negative about Quebec, the French language, the language laws, bilingualism in the rest of the country, the separatist movement, or any of a dozen other semi-related concepts, the word "racism" is used within a handful of posts.

Turnabout is more than fair play.

Besides, when did I ever mention names? Several people on this forum have at various times gone on long rants about how diversity is overrated and nothing to be proud of. As someone else mentioned, "Its not the deciding factor, but it absolutely has a lot do with urbanity. It doesn't necessarily have to come in the form of ethnic diversity, but so much of the "big city experience" comes from the wide assortment of people all living amongst each other and coexisting." A lot of us here think this way, some do not. :shrug:


Methinks the lady doth protest too much...

[kool maudit]

that's your reply? some confused defensiveness about bill 101 and francophones, a reference to "turnabout" in which you seem to identify me as one of the french-canadians by whom you have (allegedly) been troubled and a clumsily dealt (mis)quotation from Hamlet?

are you serious? do you even read what you type?

[rousseau]

it is also a huge part of english speaking canada, having produced its largest companies, its greatest writers (imo) and a whole array of other cultural, economic and educational institutions.

it is the historic metropolis of english canada as well as french canada.

Oi! Montreal has produced some okay fiction, but Canada's three greatest writers are part of the perhaps dubiously concocted rubric of "Southern Ontario Gothic": Alice Munro, Margaret Atwood and Robertson Davies.

The Deptford Trilogy by Davies is Canada's only epic work of literature, and it towers over anything anyone else has produced. Without any exaggeration, Alice Munro may very well be one of the greatest short story writers...ever. Anywhere. And while Atwood isn't really my cup of tea, there's no denying her global impact in the last few decades of the 20th century.

What's Montreal got? Well, I'll be the first to say that at the age of 20 I greatly enjoyed Leonard Cohen's two novels, but haven't read them since. I'll have to reread them. But you're obviously referring to Mordecai Richler, right? But geez...I dunno. I read Apprenticeship, which I didn't really enjoy, and I've tried a couple of his other books, but only got to about fifty pages before giving up. With Richler you know the satire is coming, and that he wants to pound it into you. It's kind of tiresome. People are currently reverent because he just passed away, but I don't think his reputation will hold up very well.

It's fascinating that literary fiction is the only, and I mean only, part of Canadian culture that is even remotely interesting and worthy of investigation to outsiders. Our music and film and other media blow chunks, save maybe for some documentaries. Or something. Okay, no, amend that...some Europeans think native Canadian culture is sort of interesting, though they conflate that with American native culture (as well they should). But can anybody possibly not find beaver tail as a "taste of Canada" currently on offer in Davos to be cringeworthy?

I confess I don't know a thing about French literature in Quebec.

Oh, back on topic: move to Hamilton for the cheap rent and spend weekends in Toronto crashing on a friend's couch. That's the only reasonable answer to your query.

[kool maudit]

that is certainly the other tradition that could be raised, but jewish montreal is more my thing. richler at his best -- in solomon gursky was here, for instance -- is a less ponderous but more mythic philip roth. he really was one of the greats, but his commercial/satiric sensibility is (ironically) not as saleable as such when compared to davies' occult/academic/monastic demeanour.

cohen, klein, layton are the supporting cast in the strictly print regard.

cohen, though, is a complete poet in the most classical/archaic sense, and the fact that he did this in the musical rather than the strictly literary world is in keeping with this. homer's works were sung.

cohen is among the finest religious writers of the 20th century.

[freeweed]

It's fascinating that literary fiction is the only, and I mean only, part of Canadian culture that is even remotely interesting and worthy of investigation to outsiders. Our music and film and other media blow chunks, save maybe for some documentaries. Or something. Okay, no, amend that...some Europeans think native Canadian culture is sort of interesting, though they conflate that with American native culture (as well they should). But can anybody possibly not find beaver tail as a "taste of Canada" currently on offer in Davos to be cringeworthy?

OT, but I also find this fascinating. Personally I don't find much interesting in Canadian literature (this may be due to forcefeeding of such bores as Duddy throughout grade school). I also think our art scene is a fair bit overrated, but again that may be because of continual Group of Seven worship.

However I find the Canadian music scene absolutely full of incredible talent. And I'm not talking about the well known acts throughout the years, most of which I'm very "meh" about. BTO is good for a Simpsons joke or three, and Stompin' Tom is fun at a hockey game, but they're not things I have on my iPod. In the indie/alternative scene, I'm constantly finding myself discovering new acts that I really enjoy, only to find out much later (often years later) that they're Canadian.

What I do notice (everyone in Canada notices this, but not many realize the true significance) is how many Canadians are on the cultural scene, outside of the country. Hollywood is full of obvious examples but it's much more pervasive than that. In a lot of ways, Canada has been and continues to be a huge part of defining American culture - which most of the world continues to be obsessed with. When the rest of the world watches an "American" movie or television show, what they usually don't realize is that it was created in large part by Canadians. And often IN Canada these days, too - Vancouver and Toronto still attract a shit-ton of film crews.

Is there a significant market for French language Canadian "stuff" in France? It wouldn't surprise me although I'll admit to complete ignorance.

[rousseau]

Yeah, personal taste. I can't muster any enthusiasm for Philip Roth, so the reference is lost on me. To be honest, aside from an undergraduate infatuation with Kafka I can't think of any prominent Jewish writers that do it for me. I've tried and failed to finish anything by Isaac Bashevis Singer, for example.

Which is not to suggest any particular dislike for Jewish stuff. No way. Jewish humour is almost as good as British humour.

A Jewish grandmother is at the beach with her grandson. The grandson is playing on the beach when a big wave comes and washes the kid out to sea. The lifeguards swim out, bring him back to shore, and revive him. They take him to the grandmother and say, "we saved your grandson."

The grandmother says, "he had a hat."

There are really only two types of people in the world: those who find this hysterical, and those who don't get it.

I'm an atheist, but I still find religion sort of interesting. I'll have to look into the religious angle of Cohen, then.

Back on topic: Get a place in the Durand neighbourhood of Hamilton, you won't regret it. Check out Flar's pictures.

[rousseau]

However I find the Canadian music scene absolutely full of incredible talent...<snip>...In the indie/alternative scene, I'm constantly finding myself discovering new acts that I really enjoy, only to find out much later (often years later) that they're Canadian.
I find this hard to believe. If there's one thing we never fail to do in this country, it's announce ad infinitum that a given actor or musician is Canadian. We are just that insecure.

Prime example: how many threads in the Canadian section, which no one else save for the odd Brazilian ever looks at, have the words "Canada" or "Canadian" in the title? Well, I just counted: Fully 26 of the 52 threads at this particular moment have "Canada" or "Canadian" in the title. Why is that? Why is there this doubt in people's minds that the content of these threads might be anything other than Canadian-oriented? It's a national tick we have that shows how ingrained our insecurity is.

As for Canadians in Hollywood, let's be realistic: Canadians are not shaping the sensibility of American culture whatsoever. Why should any American know that John Candy is Canadian? SCTV is probably Canada's best comedy show ever, but Melonville was American through and through, from the stars and stripes in the courtrooms to Sid "all the vey from San Francisky? Did you drove or did you flew?" Dithers. Is there anything at all about Saturday Night Live that says "Canada" to you?

I challenge you to find anybody in Turkey who can identify any Canadian sensibility in any American film out of Hollywood (aside from Canadian Bacon, obviously). It ain't there.

[freeweed]

I find this hard to believe. If there's one thing we never fail to do in this country, it's announce ad infinitum that a given actor or musician is Canadian. We are just that insecure.

Which is why I find it so notable. Listen to something like XM radio sometime, which is a decidedly American company. They don't even mention the source of the bands playing on it, and yet I've heard stretches with more Canadian content than we see on our own stations. You might find this hard to believe if you only follow mainstream or popular acts, but trust me, it happens a lot. Not a lot in terms of dollars maybe, but that's not what I was talking about. Canadian stations play Nickelback 3 times an hour and claim their CanCon quota. US stations will play 5 different Canadian bands and no one's even aware. Most people would be floored by the amount of Canadian music in "American" video games - bands like Mobile, while not exactly "indie", have invaded EA's music library (probably has something to do with their huge presence in Vancouver) and these games are marketed around the world. You have to remember, there's no one on iTunes or XM or in a video game announcing that a given musician is Canadian. Sure, if you only discover new music by listening to Canadian radio stations... but this is a far different time. The Internet knows no country boundaries.


As for Canadians in Hollywood, let's be realistic: Canadians are not shaping the sensibility of American culture whatsoever. Why should any American know that John Candy is Canadian? SCTV is probably Canada's best comedy show ever, but Melonville was American through and through, from the stars and stripes in the courtrooms to Sid "all the vey from San Francisky? Did you drove or did you flew?" Dithers. Is there anything at all about Saturday Night Live that says "Canada" to you?

I challenge you to find anybody in Turkey who can identify any Canadian sensibility in any American film out of Hollywood (aside from Canadian Bacon, obviously). It ain't there.

Seriously? Hell, I gave it away in my previous post. The longest running animated sitcom in history and one of the most popular shows of the past several decades is so Canadian that it practically oozes the maple leaf. Yet few people would ever realize this unless explicitly told - that's my point. Canadians moving to Hollywood have brought a Canadian sensibility that in many ways has swamped American influences. We don't get the recognition, but if you don't think SNL has a very Canadian flavour to it just because there aren't beavers in ever other sketch...

The fact that someone in Turkey can't identify what's "Canadian" in something IS the point. We've influenced US culture in so many subtle ways that people think it's "American". If you've ever heard someone from the US complaining about how Hollywood is so "liberal", ask yourself where that influence just might be coming from. It's so pervasive that most people can't even conceive of it.

[flar]

Oi! Montreal has produced some okay fiction, but Canada's three greatest writers are part of the perhaps dubiously concocted rubric of "Southern Ontario Gothic": Alice Munro, Margaret Atwood and Robertson Davies.

The Deptford Trilogy by Davies is Canada's only epic work of literature, and it towers over anything anyone else has produced.

What's Montreal got? Well, I'll be the first to say that at the age of 20 I greatly enjoyed Leonard Cohen's two novels, but haven't read them since. I'll have to reread them. But you're obviously referring to Mordecai Richler, right? But geez...I dunno. I read Apprenticeship, which I didn't really enjoy, and I've tried a couple of his other books, but only got to about fifty pages before giving up. With Richler you know the satire is coming, and that he wants to pound it into you. It's kind of tiresome. People are currently reverent because he just passed away, but I don't think his reputation will hold up very well.



Oh, back on topic: move to Hamilton for the cheap rent and spend weekends in Toronto crashing on a friend's couch. That's the only reasonable answer to your query.

I normally don't read much fiction, but coincidentally I've read both Richler and Davies in the past few weeks.

I started with Son of a Smaller Hero, written when Richler was very young. Richler invokes his amazing imagery of Montreal at the time, which was all the more vivid because I spent a weekend in Montreal while I was reading it. I previously read Duddy, and this book explores a similar theme, exploring the question of "what kind of man" the protagonist will become. Son of a Smaller hero makes this a religious question; the choice is between a foreclosed identity using the readily available adaptations provided by the Montreal Jewish community, versus breaking free from the chains of family, community and religion. Duddy, on the other hand, phrases the question in more universal terms slightly further along in the development of ego identiy (pusherke vs. mensch). I like this psychological/moral theme, and like Richler as a writer.

Now to Davies, I was forced to read Fifth Business in high school because I grew up two towns over from Davies. I reread it after I was finished with Richler and there is no doubt that Davies' intellect towers over that of Richler. I've since finished the Manticore and will complete World of Wonders this weekend. The Deptford Trilogy displays incredible depth of symbolism and psychological insight. Davies achieves all this technical and intellectual brilliance without seeming too earnest (a little pompous maybe) because the storytelling is first rate. The themes and events of the three novels are so delicately woven together, I can't even imagine putting together a project of this magnitude. There's really too much to sum up in a short paragraph like this. I'm in awe.


I also like Margaret Laurence. And I agree, move to Hamilton. You can easily access everything Toronto, Niagara and Western NY have to offer while living cheaply. Hamilton can provide whatever you need day to day.

[kool maudit]

i won't quibble too much with the above, but solomon gursky was here was richler's masterwork in my opinion, and it is a book of terrible symbolism and vastness. davies does have the greater intellect, but there is something bloodless and unvital about him, an order-of-the-golden-dawn-y quality.

[kool maudit]

in the end, though, i'm just way more a "this sort of guy"

http://media.canada.com/idl/mtgz/20080503/88228-29127.jpg

than a "this sort of guy."

http://www.cbc.ca/wordsatlarge/images/2008/WAL_davies.jpg

[rousseau]

Well, I'm more "this kinda guy"

http://images.fanpop.com/images/image_uploads/Mr-Bean-mr--bean-166164_425_657.jpg

than either of those two, but I see can see the attraction to Mordecai. He's part of that hustling Montreal-New York axis. Which isn't my cup of tea, but I get it.

[flar]

in the end, though, i'm just way more a "this sort of guy"

http://media.canada.com/idl/mtgz/20080503/88228-29127.jpg

than a "this sort of guy."

http://www.cbc.ca/wordsatlarge/images/2008/WAL_davies.jpg

Me too, but I'm getting old. I'll read Solomon Gursky next.

[freeweed]

Yes, precisely. The only cultural product where someone will recognize Canadian content is literary fiction.

Ah, gotcha. I bet a big part of this is the fact that literature is one of the few places where place names are mentioned a lot. I've never been able to detect a Canadian "style" in writing, but when a book takes place in Toronto, pretty good odds are that it's by a Canadian writer.

Speaking of which - Scott Pilgrim is totally Canadian (even if it was a US-produced movie). It's really too bad it didn't get more exposure. The source comic is just packed with references to Toronto/southern Ontario, but that got even less attention.

[rousseau]

Listen to something like XM radio sometime, which is a decidedly American company. They don't even mention the source of the bands playing on it.
Ah, I see what you're saying.

The fact that someone in Turkey can't identify what's "Canadian" in something IS the point.
Yes, precisely. The only cultural product where someone will recognize Canadian content is literary fiction.