[someone123]

Spring Garden Road is quite the hot spot.
Once the library is completed it will give this street a big jolt of walking traffic.
I love making the downtown busier! :)

What I like is how some long-standing issues are finally being fixed. The empty Queen Street corner and Clyde Street dead zone have been around for decades, holding the street back. They were a major problem and the fact that they're finally being dealt with gives me a lot of hope for further improvements.

There's a very important relationship between density and amenities when it comes to determining the "critical mass" of a neighbourhood. When you hit the point where you can have stuff like Pete's, which requires a certain level of residential market, the neighbourhood becomes way more appealing. Government-owned empty lots stack the deck against urban neighbourhoods because they cut down on density without adding anything beyond what would be available in an actual development.

I think similar residential infill would do wonders for the downtown area and Barrington, and would even increase demand for residential. Right now the old downtown is on the wrong side of the feedback loop, where it just doesn't have enough stuff to make it a good place to locate, so nobody moves in. It does seem to be improving a bit but if a dozen or so condo towers moved in the difference would be like night and day.

[RyeJay]

What I like is how some long-standing issues are finally being fixed. The empty Queen Street corner and Clyde Street dead zone have been around for decades, holding the street back. They were a major problem and the fact that they're finally being dealt with gives me a lot of hope for further improvements.

There's a very important relationship between density and amenities when it comes to determining the "critical mass" of a neighbourhood. When you hit the point where you can have stuff like Pete's, which requires a certain level of residential market, the neighbourhood becomes way more appealing. Government-owned empty lots stack the deck against urban neighbourhoods because they cut down on density without adding anything beyond what would be available in an actual development.

I think similar residential infill would do wonders for the downtown area and Barrington, and would even increase demand for residential. Right now the old downtown is on the wrong side of the feedback loop, where it just doesn't have enough stuff to make it a good place to locate, so nobody moves in. It does seem to be improving a bit but if a dozen or so condo towers moved in the difference would be like night and day.

To add to what you've been saying, the site of the former Halifax Infirmary is next to be placed on the market for purchase. I am hopeful for more residential.

I haven't read anything relating to the outcome of Gerard Hall, however.

[halifaxboyns]

What I like is how some long-standing issues are finally being fixed. The empty Queen Street corner and Clyde Street dead zone have been around for decades, holding the street back. They were a major problem and the fact that they're finally being dealt with gives me a lot of hope for further improvements.

There's a very important relationship between density and amenities when it comes to determining the "critical mass" of a neighbourhood. When you hit the point where you can have stuff like Pete's, which requires a certain level of residential market, the neighbourhood becomes way more appealing. Government-owned empty lots stack the deck against urban neighbourhoods because they cut down on density without adding anything beyond what would be available in an actual development.

I think similar residential infill would do wonders for the downtown area and Barrington, and would even increase demand for residential. Right now the old downtown is on the wrong side of the feedback loop, where it just doesn't have enough stuff to make it a good place to locate, so nobody moves in. It does seem to be improving a bit but if a dozen or so condo towers moved in the difference would be like night and day.

I agree - it's good to know that even with the removal of the parking lots, the parking issue (which businesses believe is an issue, but isn't really) will still be okay after development comes along.

The downtown is slowly moving up in critical mass I think - it will be telling in 10 years time when the Roy and Discovery Buildings get built how much busier downtown will be. Also once you add in the Brewery Tower, the waterfront developments - when they all get built there will be way more people downtown.

The one thing I've always had a concern with is the issue of governments holding onto key downtown parcels and never doing anything with them. This process for the 'sister lots' (although a bit corny in terms of their advertising) shows that there is interest and the Governments who own the land will make good $ selling the land off. Without having seen the RFP, the only concern I'd have is the start date of the projects. I just hope it's not one of these cases where an approval is issued and then nothing happens (like Twisted).

[someone123]

I don't know the exact terms but my impression is that there are more "strings" attached to Clyde Street, including time limits for development, whereas the TexPark site was just a land sale. The city also did a better job of specifying what would be appropriate for the site beforehand. It is crazy that council sold the TexPark lot and then some of them turned around and voted against the purchaser's development. Those should not have been separate steps.

My worry about projects like the Discovery Centre tower or Roy Building or, even worse, Skye, is that they all seem elaborate and far-off. Plus they're all basically in ground zero as far as the Heritage Trust et al. are concerned. The end result is that the chance of success of the average project downtown is very low.

The Brewery tower is a great project in a great location but it took years and years of fighting to get approval. I hope it isn't dead..

[halifaxboyns]

I don't know the exact terms but my impression is that there are more "strings" attached to Clyde Street, including time limits for development, whereas the TexPark site was just a land sale. The city also did a better job of specifying what would be appropriate for the site beforehand. It is crazy that council sold the TexPark lot and then some of them turned around and voted against the purchaser's development. Those should not have been separate steps.

My worry about projects like the Discovery Centre tower or Roy Building or, even worse, Skye, is that they all seem elaborate and far-off. Plus they're all basically in ground zero as far as the Heritage Trust et al. are concerned. The end result is that the chance of success of the average project downtown is very low.

The Brewery tower is a great project in a great location but it took years and years of fighting to get approval. I hope it isn't dead..

Well I think Skye is a joke frankly (see my rant in that thread) and is nothing more than a blatent attempt to force the value of the site up to sell for more down the road. If they had sold that with more detail on an expected outcome for the development and timeline I suspect Skye would never have shown up and twisted would've been well underway by now. Yes, it's sad that some of council went ahead and voted against it too - although I suspect that if it had been done the same way as this, you might still have some people vote against the sale, simply because they wouldn't have liked the planned outcome.

Discovery and Roy are unique situations because they are timed. They will expire - so if the people who have the approvals don't get off their rears and build them within the time that was approved - it reverts back to what is under HbD. I suspect you'll see those two start moving forward pretty soon, or it will be a mad rush to avoid the deadline. Since there were no appeals to them, they can proceed, they may even be in the permitting process stage now. Would be something to bring up at Jono's event this week - if the developers are there.

[someone123]

Both Roy and Discovery have dependencies. Roy is only going to happen after Espace and after its leases run out. The Coast recently had an article about Reflections moving to Gottingen as well, so there seems to be progress but construction still can't happen for a while.

Hopefully they will go with apartments to speed things up. My big worry is that we'll get Waterside II and III if they go with office or condo, immediately eviscerate the heritage buildings, and then wait around for tenants or buyers. The vacancies in the Roy Building have already been a pretty big blow to Barrington, sadly. Hopefully it will pay off in the end.

Some councillors would have voted against the TexPark sale but at least with one vote there wouldn't have been the potential for the ridiculous outcome of the city selling a lot then telling the buyer they can't build on it. The city as a seller is unique and the only fair process is for them to deal with their requirements ahead of time and make it clear to buyers what can be done with the land. No doubt a huge impediment to development in Halifax in the past has simply been that it's such a moving target -- a proposal that takes time and money to develop can be well-received at one point and then torpedoed when fashions in council change a little.

[halifaxboyns]

Both Roy and Discovery have dependencies. Roy is only going to happen after Espace and after its leases run out. The Coast recently had an article about Reflections moving to Gottingen as well, so there seems to be progress but construction still can't happen for a while.

Hopefully they will go with apartments to speed things up. My big worry is that we'll get Waterside II and III if they go with office or condo, immediately eviscerate the heritage buildings, and then wait around for tenants or buyers. The vacancies in the Roy Building have already been a pretty big blow to Barrington, sadly. Hopefully it will pay off in the end.

Some councillors would have voted against the TexPark sale but at least with one vote there wouldn't have been the potential for the ridiculous outcome of the city selling a lot then telling the buyer they can't build on it. The city as a seller is unique and the only fair process is for them to deal with their requirements ahead of time and make it clear to buyers what can be done with the land. No doubt a huge impediment to development in Halifax in the past has simply been that it's such a moving target -- a proposal that takes time and money to develop can be well-received at one point and then torpedoed when fashions in council change a little.

Reflections moving to Gottingen Street? Well that doesn't surprise me...over the past few years there has been a good cluster of gay bars showing up on Gottingen Street. While I was home I went to a drag show at Men's bar, it was good to see some old friends.

I can't see how the people at Discovery won't push to have the project go ahead within the timeline. I know some friends who work for Reflections - I'll see what they are hearing about timelines.

[RyeJay]

Reflections moving to Gottingen Street? Well that doesn't surprise me...over the past few years there has been a good cluster of gay bars showing up on Gottingen Street.

It surprises me. Reflections' current location puts it in the heart of downtown. A move to Gottingen means a move away from the majority of the nightlife. Reflections benefits greatly from its no labels status, simply because it broadens its market. This proposed move would mean Reflections would only hold on to its gay following. All the rest will remain in the heart of downtown, where most of the clubs and bars are.

[halifaxboyns]

It surprises me. Reflections' current location puts it in the heart of downtown. A move to Gottingen means a move away from the majority of the nightlife. Reflections benefits greatly from its no labels status, simply because it broadens its market. This proposed move would mean Reflections would only hold on to its gay following. All the rest will remain in the heart of downtown, where most of the clubs and bars are.

Actually you would be surprised. I thought that was going to the be the case when one of the new (back then) bars opened up on Gottingen Street. It was in one of the buildings recently torn down. But the people came, lots of people and the club was popular for a good few years. But because the owner was greedy and lost some good staff and DJ's it went down hill.

[someone123]

It surprises me. Reflections' current location puts it in the heart of downtown. A move to Gottingen means a move away from the majority of the nightlife. Reflections benefits greatly from its no labels status, simply because it broadens its market. This proposed move would mean Reflections would only hold on to its gay following. All the rest will remain in the heart of downtown, where most of the clubs and bars are.

Apparently they're looking at moving into the site of the old Marquee, which at one point was quite busy despite not being a gay bar.

If we see more growth downtown I predict that Gottingen will become like a new Barrington (boutique and more offbeat stuff that tends to go for lower rent) and Barrington itself will go a bit more upscale. If lots of residential goes in there will also be a new market for stuff like urban format grocery stores.

[someone123]

There was an article tonight about people having troubles with the new parking meters on these two sites. Fairly boring, but it makes me wonder when they'll be starting construction. I guess they still need to go through the HbD approval process.

[beyeas]

There was an article tonight about people having troubles with the new parking meters on these two sites. Fairly boring, but it makes me wonder when they'll be starting construction. I guess they still need to go through the HbD approval process.

Yeah I had the same thought... given Fares' comment about needing to recoup the $200k in automated meters, it makes you wonder how long they expect to operate that.

The other interesting and likely true, but frustrating, comment was at the end of that article, where they said about how the issue isn't parking persay since there are always spots available in those lots, but rather that people still have the mindset that they want to be able to park immediately in front of their destination so that they don't have to walk.

[someone123]

I prefer on-street parking, but it's not practical for busy areas. For the busiest areas driving is not practical either. I would not want to drive in Manhattan for example and I even avoid it in downtown Vancouver.

I can see this being an issue where there's a lot of selection bias and a "squeaky wheel" effect. First you start by hearing a couple of complaints, then you ask the minority who drive and park around Spring Garden Road, then you declare that it is a top issue. People who do not drive and the people who will eventually live on these lots do not factor into the equation.

On balance I find it hard to believe that whatever harm caused by moving those spots underground will be greater than the increased spending and tax dollars that will come from 500-1000 new residents on Clyde Street.

Some particular businesses might not do as well but it's really up to them that finds a location that works. It's not realistic for them to expect the city to contort a 3-block radius into an ersatz strip mall. Sadly this is a very small town attitude that Halifax has not yet grown out of -- which is why the city is frequently paralyzed by indecision. "OMG! Bob's not happy! ABORT! Switch to Plan B! OMG, now Frank is not happy! OK! Meeting adjourned until 2013!"

At least these sites are finally being developed. The streetscape improvements also need to be pushed through.

[eastcoastal]

... The Coast recently had an article about Reflections moving to Gottingen as well, so there seems to be progress but construction still can't happen for a while...

The cabaret license was denied for the former Marquee/Paramount space, so Reflections is no longer considering the move to that building.

[RyeJay]

The cabaret license was denied for the former Marquee/Paramount space, so Reflections is no longer considering the move to that building.

If the city was educated on the tourist aspect of Halifax's nightlife then it would have immediately said yes.

No more late-night gay club means fewer gays from every municipality in the Maritimes spending weekends in Halifax. It is far less appealing to drive all the way to Halifax to party, when the bars stay open no later than in New Brunswick (2am).

Less business for hotels, and the restaurants, and the retail stores, the cinemas and theatres, etc, etc, etc...

Stupid Halifax.

[cormiermax]

If the city was educated on the tourist aspect of Halifax's nightlife then it would have immediately said yes.

No more late-night gay club means fewer gays from every municipality in the Maritimes spending weekends in Halifax. It is far less appealing to drive all the way to Halifax to party, when the bars stay open no later than in New Brunswick (2am).

Less business for hotels, and the restaurants, and the retail stores, the cinemas and theatres, etc, etc, etc...

Stupid Halifax.

I don't think Halifax gets THAT much gay tourism for it too really make a difference in the overall tourist numbers.

[Hali87]

I don't think Halifax gets THAT much gay tourism for it too really make a difference in the overall tourist numbers.

You'd be surprised how many out-of-towners are at Reflections any given Friday or Saturday.

[halifaxboyns]

I don't think Halifax gets THAT much gay tourism for it too really make a difference in the overall tourist numbers.

Are you kidding? The numbers for pride each year keep going up and up and up. We're the biggest attended pride festival east of Montreal.

I'm hearing numbers in the 75 to 100,000 range. Granted that may have been because of other events downtown (and people were already there), but the tourism aspect is being better and better marketed. The Halifax pride website barely had any information for tourism before - now it has every hotel, deals with AC/WJ for air fare and I think even via rail provides deals for pride.

[cormiermax]

Are you kidding? The numbers for pride each year keep going up and up and up. We're the biggest attended pride festival east of Montreal.

I'm hearing numbers in the 75 to 100,000 range. Granted that may have been because of other events downtown (and people were already there), but the tourism aspect is being better and better marketed. The Halifax pride website barely had any information for tourism before - now it has every hotel, deals with AC/WJ for air fare and I think even via rail provides deals for pride.

One major event doesn't really prove your point, and I don't think one bar would really make any difference.

[Hali87]

One major event doesn't really prove your point, and I don't think one bar would really make any difference.

I've heard that Halifax has the fourth largest gay community in Canada. I don't know what kind of statistics would back that up (whether it's pure demographics or if it's based on things like Pride Week and gay-oriented businesses), but I've been to 8/10 provinces and "gay culture" seems to be a lot more mainstream in Halifax than in most of Canada. Also there are cruise ships that come here every year that are geared specifically to gay and lesbian tourists.

In my experience, young people from around the Maritimes, Newfoundland, and New England have been attracted by the "live and let live" attitude that is prevalent here and exemplified by the popularity of Reflections and Pride Week within the general public. Halifax is more of a social melting pot than cities like Toronto and Montreal which have very obvious gay villages and ethnic neighbourhoods, and more diverse than cities like Moncton and Saint John which is where a lot of these kids are moving from.

[someone123]

In my experience, young people from around the Maritimes, Newfoundland, and New England have been attracted by the "live and let live" attitude that is prevalent here and exemplified by the popularity of Reflections and Pride Week within the general public. Halifax is more of a social melting pot than cities like Toronto and Montreal which have very obvious gay villages and ethnic neighbourhoods, and more diverse than cities like Moncton and Saint John which is where a lot of these kids are moving from.

I think many people in Halifax sort of take it for granted as the norm when in reality it's pretty unusual for such a small city. Halifax is one of the most tolerant and liberal places in Canada. It's been that way for a very long time.

[coolmillion]

I've heard that since the cabaret license didn't work out for Gottingen, Reflections might consider moving into the old Elephant and Castle space (also formerly Merrill's). Not sure on the status of this, but I like the idea... If it doesn't pan out, I imagine that another club space might fill the void...

[RyeJay]

One major event doesn't really prove your point, and I don't think one bar would really make any difference.

Don't think, eh?
An educated guess would involve you going to Reflections and seeing how (as it was previously said, on any given Friday and Saturday) upwards to half the crowd is from outside of Halifax/Nova Scotia.

The gays, especially from New Brunswick, religiously flock to Halifax to spend their money -- and not just for Pride -- but every weekend: and the city is giving them a reason to stay home.

This is stupid because the reason stated for Reflection's cabaret license rejection was concern for the "growing residential character" of Gottingen. This might be a valid reason if Reflections was attempting to relocate inside a convent-- but it is not; it is trying to relocate to Gottingen Street. Gottingen Street.

[cormiermax]

Right, but is Reflections the only reason they come to Halifax?

[RyeJay]

Right, but is Reflections the only reason they come to Halifax?

Yes.

The shopping alone isn't enough, as New Brunswick and Nova Scotia are fairly parallel in retail. I think it's fair to say that places like Montreal and Toronto would be shopping destinations.

I am telling you that a gay-friendly dance club open until 3:30/4am is a very, very big deal for a city to have when absolutely no other city in the region has it. I know so many gay people from NB that will come to Halifax not even for the entire weekend, but for just one night -- all because the gay bar is open until late.

Since you're trying to make this seem completely insignificant, I'll grant you the assumption: this is just one bar and it's no big deal. The question still stands as to why we're saying no even to this small amount of business.

And can someone please bring about a revelation as to why in the hell Gottingen's residential character is being protected from 4am drag queens?

Oh wait..

[someone123]

I would argue in any case that Gottingen is not a good place for somebody to live if they have a problem with noise.

I'm also not really sure what difference it makes setting the hours to 2 a.m. vs. 4. Neither is compatible with a normal work schedule.

Maybe Reflections would be okay in the Elephant and Castle spot but that seems like it would be a higher rent location.

[Jonovision]

I was never a big fan of the idea to move to Gottingen anyway. As well as being a very large draw for gays around the maritimes Reflections is also the go to bar for dancing as well as the after hour bar for all those that go out to other places. Relocating to Gottingen would take away a lot of customers in my opinion. Someone who is downtown at another bar until 2 is much less likely to travel all the way up there as oppose to going to a location that is still in the proper downtown. I really hope that things work out at the Elephant and Castle site!

[hollistreet]

I have not been on here for a few days, is Reflections thinking of moving to the Sister Sites?

[Keith P.]

I have not been on here for a few days, is Reflections thinking of moving to the Sister Sites?

Not a chance.

[halifaxboyns]

Right, but is Reflections the only reason they come to Halifax?

I would say it's probably part of their reason to come here. May rural gay people come to the City because they can be who they are - be open. Whereas in some rural communities they can't be out of fear.

So they would come to Halifax to go to the gay bars, but to make friends, shop or just get away.

Edmonton's gay scene is better than Calgary's and I drive up quite a bit and go to their bars, but I also go to see friends. Plus West Ed is a hoot. There are also a lot of events and groups within the gay community that have events going year round. There is the imperial court (don't ask me to explain it, I don't understand it) - but it's some drag queen group that does charity work, but also performs. They do functions across the country. I have friends coming out from Halifax to perform here in Calgary in April and Edmonton in July. People from across the country travel to the Halifax events in February and year round. So don't take pride to be 'the only' event...there are others. There are also groups for 'bears' (older/masculine guys) and then there are those into leather that do competitions, but I won't go into that...it's too early and I haven't had coffee.

[Northend Guy]

From the Chronicle Herald site:

Developer: No hints on city building design
January 24, 2012 - 8:52pm By REMO ZACCAGNA Business Reporter

A preliminary design for a joint downtown mixed-use development project has been completed, but remains under wraps pending municipal approval, says one of the developers.

WM Fares Group and Banc Developments Ltd. purchased two parking lots on Clyde Street, divided by Birmingham Street, in June for $14.7 million.

They plan to build two nine-storey buildings — one floor of commercial retail space and the rest residential — with each having three levels of underground parking.

They initially hoped to have the proposal before Halifax regional council in November, with construction beginning in the spring, but that timeline has now been pushed back.

“We are moving ahead with the design and, hopefully, we’ll get our approvals to start construction this year,” said Besim Halef of Banc Developments.

“The initial elements of the design is done, so (we’re) just kind of trying to get it through the city. We cannot release it until HRM by Design committee agrees to it.”

He wouldn’t divulge any specific details about the buildings pending that approval.

The lots are in an area once known as Schmidtville, named after three sisters who lived in the area.

The developments will be built on the Mary Ann lot, a 33,869-square-foot property bounded by Birmingham, Queen and Clyde streets, and the Margaretta lot, the neighbouring 42,600-square-foot lot on the other side of Birmingham.

Mary Ann and Margaretta are two of the sisters who lived in the area.

Plazacorp Retail Properties Ltd. will be a partner in the project and the Fredericton company will own the combined 70,000 square feet of retail space in the ground floors of the two buildings

Halef said he thinks the approval process will be concluded in the next few months.

“Your guess is as good as mine. It depends on the city. I was hoping to have it by now, but I obviously don’t have it. It’s a process that’s kind of back and forth to get the final approval.”

The former Halifax Infirmary site on Queen Street, nicknamed Rosina after the third Schmidt sister, is expected to be put on the market by Halifax Regional Municipality sometime this year.

[RyeJay]

9 floors is too short.

Nevertheless, I will rejoice to the riddance of all that horrible surface parking.

[halifaxboyns]

9 floors is too short.

Nevertheless, I will rejoice to the riddance of all that horrible surface parking.

9 Floors is optimistic in this area, considering how viewplanes 9 and 10 paint the parking lots. If he can get 9 floors, great but I think 8 might be more like it. Look at the City Centre Atlantic and how that addition just comes in under VP 9 I believe.

[someone123]

I remember hearing about November originally and thinking that was an unrealistically short time frame.

In any case, looking forward to seeing the renderings for this one. A preliminary rendering was posted on page 3 of this thread but the final product could look totally different. I am hoping they go with something simple and modern.

The Olympic Village here in Vancouver has a variety of interesting designs. I think they'd have to be adapted to Halifax but the scale of the individual buildings is similar to what would be built on these lots:

http://www.ctvolympics.ca/mm/photo/vancouver/hostcity/01/89/58/18958_m15.jpg
http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=139393&page=6

[haligonia]

I remember the preliminary designs to be ok, but a bit busy. Hopefully the completed design is modern and simple.

[Keith P.]

I wonder if they too will have lighthouses out front.

[Jstaleness]

:previous: I hope so. There are not enough lighthouses in this town. Being sarcastic or course.

[eastcoastal]

I wonder if they too will have lighthouses out front.

perhaps giant sou'westers?

[-Harlington-]

Giant lobsters wearing giant sou'westers drinking a giant Keith's while fishing ??

[worldlyhaligonian]

Giant lobsters wearing giant sou'westers drinking a giant Keith's while fishing ??

Playing a fiddle as well? Don't give them ideas, lol! :cool:

[someone123]

There was an article in ANS tonight about Clyde Street. Apparently it still does not have HRM by Design approval, but the plan is to begin construction this spring or summer. As before, they'd like to put in an NSLC on the ground floor of the Queen Street building, which would be started first. Potentially both buildings could be under construction at the same time.

It will be great when these ugly parking lots are finally gone. Queen Street is also a much better spot for the NSLC.

[RyeJay]

:previous:

Crane for City Centre Atlantic...crane for the library...crane for Clyde Street...crane for Fenwick... :fingerscrossed:

That'd be an interesting picture to take.

[worldlyhaligonian]

This area will definitely be much more coherent. Its sort of a nightmare at the moment, but the Trillium was a significant step... now we have another modern project in the library on the way and the wheels in motion for the clyde lots. I'd also speculate that Dal will do something with the lot south of the library in the next 5 years or so.

[Pete Crawford]

I'd also speculate that Dal will do something with the lot south of the library in the next 5 years or so.

They show something on that lot in their master plan. It dosen't look like a huge project, but if you look closely, they do call it "Gerard Hall," so maybe its more of a plan than just a conceptual addition.


http://i1246.photobucket.com/albums/gg606/petecrawford222/65432.png

[someone123]

I vaguely recall reading about how development of that corner is a few years off (maybe 5-10). I think the IDEA building is supposed to be started relatively soon.

As the map shows, the Dal site is only a roughly square-shaped lot at the corner of Morris and Queen. There will also be a park site and one of the Sister sites behind the library. Not sure when they plan to complete the park landscaping.

[Pete Crawford]

So the "HRM Development Site" on that map is one of the three sister sites? And the city is actually moving to develop it?

When I first saw that section on the map I thought "allright, surface parking for 20 years." If all these projects do get developed, Halifax could have a new highly attractive area in Queen street by the end of the decade.

[someone123]

Yep. The plan is to sell it off next year. I doubt they will have trouble finding a developer -- the second site was actually snapped up earlier than expected, when they were only officially selling the first site.

I expect that Queen Street will be pretty nice in a few years, and a more important street than it is now. Clyde will also be semi-commercial, with the Trillium and two new developments. There will probably be a new NSLC at Queen and Clyde and then potentially more retail space mid-block on the third site.

Over the next 10 years or so I could see Queen evolving into a major pedestrian street connecting Spring Garden Road to the Fenwick area. The Fenwick development will bring in lots of new residents and the Sobeys may be redeveloped as well. It will be an interesting process to watch!

[RyeJay]

Yep. The plan is to sell it off next year. I doubt they will have trouble finding a developer -- the second site was actually snapped up earlier than expected, when they were only officially selling the first site.

I expect that Queen Street will be pretty nice in a few years, and a more important street than it is now. Clyde will also be semi-commercial, with the Trillium and two new developments. There will probably be a new NSLC at Queen and Clyde and then potentially more retail space mid-block on the third site.

Over the next 10 years or so I could see Queen evolving into a major pedestrian street connecting Spring Garden Road to the Fenwick area. The Fenwick development will bring in lots of new residents and the Sobeys may be redeveloped as well. It will be an interesting process to watch!

In adding to this optimism, I would like to see the older low-density residential buildings on Queen Street redeveloped, particularly the adjacent buildings south of Gerard Hall.

[someone123]

The developers plan to file an HbD application this week, so hopefully we'll get some new renderings in a few days.

[someone123]

There were a few details about this tonight in an ANS article about the NSLC.

The article made it sound as though the HRM by Design application has been filed and as though construction could still start in the summer. I wonder when we will see new renderings?

[Nouvellecosse]

Yep. The plan is to sell it off next year. I doubt they will have trouble finding a developer -- the second site was actually snapped up earlier than expected, when they were only officially selling the first site.

I expect that Queen Street will be pretty nice in a few years, and a more important street than it is now. Clyde will also be semi-commercial, with the Trillium and two new developments. There will probably be a new NSLC at Queen and Clyde and then potentially more retail space mid-block on the third site.

Over the next 10 years or so I could see Queen evolving into a major pedestrian street connecting Spring Garden Road to the Fenwick area. The Fenwick development will bring in lots of new residents and the Sobeys may be redeveloped as well. It will be an interesting process to watch!Something should definitely be done about that big, ugly Sobeys parking lot. It really detracts from an otherwise beautiful area.

Even if they had just hidden it behind the store like they did with the Quinpool Superstore/Cantire it wouldn't have been too bad.

[DigitalNinja]

It's weird, they cleared out the parking lot that was the Rosina site when they were clearing for the library. Will it remain barren or has something happened that we didn't notice?

[beyeas]

It's weird, they cleared out the parking lot that was the Rosina site when they were clearing for the library. Will it remain barren or has something happened that we didn't notice?

I wonder if they are just using that as a staging ground.

[RyeJay]

There were a few details about this tonight in an ANS article about the NSLC.

The article made it sound as though the HRM by Design application has been filed and as though construction could still start in the summer. I wonder when we will see new renderings?

For the average development in Halifax, how early are renderings usually produced before construction? I get the sense that this window of time between the two has shrunk, in part due to shipbuilding and in part due to HRMbyDesign, possibly. As long as the developments are short enough, I'm under the impression many wouldn't care about renderings at all.

I also need to admit there is a small part of me that is hoping some of these proposals, certainly The Sister Sites, fight for more height considering the city's political environment at present. The Sister Sites may be a poor example since these potential buildings are far enough along in their stages of planning; that aside, it'd be nice if these future buildings could be treated the same as those along South Park Street. They will be shorter because of view planes, not out of concern for Spring Garden Road from which they are setback.

It would do wonders for the optics of Spring Garden, as wonders would be done for feeding retail with more consumers, if the coming height of residential would be consistent with what we see with Spring Garden Place/Universal Properties in between Brenton Street and Dresden Row...

http://maps.google.com/maps?q=halifax+nova+scotia&hl=en&ll=44.64301,-63.577967&spn=0.000122,0.07699&hnear=Halifax,+Halifax+County,+Nova+Scotia,+Canada&t=h&z=14&layer=c&cbll=44.642914,-63.577881&panoid=IT9Qht-O6rOfvgxBu9qr-Q&cbp=12,146.99,,0,-10.74

[someone123]

My understanding for the Sister Sites is that they did conditional sales and building within the HRM by Design building envelope within a certain time frame was one of the conditions. That means there will be no fighting for more height. I think that arrangement is much better than the United Gulf situation. Because the city owned the land and private developers bid knowing what the conditions were the whole thing is fair.

The renderings and plans have to be submitted to the city but sometimes they appear on the HRM website and sometimes they do not. Many of the links given for site plan approvals are not even HRM pages and do not have the plans.

Another difference I've noticed is that it tends to be easier to get condo and office building information ahead of time, and apartment plans are more difficult. I guess the condos and offices have to be marketed whereas the apartments just fill up regardless of whether or not they share renderings...?

[halifaxboyns]

The only files you will find on the HRM website are typically those requiring a development agreement. Other times you may find variance appeals (in community council agendas) or in the case of things covered by HbD - reports to the design review committee, which is when you get to see some renderings.

But considering that they have 90 days to make a decision once the application is complete; there is really no time to be able to put up a website nor do I see a need.

There won't be any debate on height partially as as someone123 mentioned and considering this site (and the others sisters sites) are painted in viewplanes. You won't get more height unless the viewplanes are drastically altered.

[someone123]

Here's a new rendering:

http://www.allnovascotia.com/story_img/20120411finalrender5.jpg
Source (http://allnovascotia.com)

According to ANS the buildings are being considered under HbD and the developers are still aiming for a summer construction start. Hopefully we will soon see more details up on the HRM website.

By the way, this one also appears to have coloured balconies.

[fenwick16]

:previous: Looks great. According to the allnovascotia.com story by Andrew MacDonald (First Clyde Street Development Unveiled, April 12, 2012 edition) the first 9 storey tower would have 135 residential units (plus commercial space) and the second 9 storey tower could possibly have 170 residential units. The second tower might start six months after excavation of the first lot. There would also be a total of 520 underground parking spaces for the two lots.

This is a significant development that will increase the vibrancy of Spring Garden Road and hopefully spread over into the downtown core.

PS: The first tower would be at Clyde and Queen Street (right across Queen Street from the new Central Library)

[RyeJay]

By the way, this one also appears to have coloured balconies.

Love it!!

[worldlyhaligonian]

Looks great for the height and its modernity doesn't seem too much of a contrast to the area. It will look nice with the library there.

[someone123]

I like the design a lot more than the preliminary design that was released a few months ago, although the second building looks very vague and it's not clear exactly how the exterior cladding will look.

The best part of the development of these sites is the continuity that will be established between Spring Garden Road, Schmidtville, and to some extent the hospitals/Dal area. It makes such a difference to have good pedestrian corridors with quality buildings and shops.

I think the Nova Centre, library, and whatever might happen with the St. Mary's property will have a similar effect in terms of tying together the downtown and Spring Garden areas.

The balconies are interesting. I like how Halifax's tradition of liberal building colours is working its way into modern building designs.

[beyeas]

By the way, this one also appears to have coloured balconies.

Yeah that was one of the 1st things that jumped out at me.
Amazing how quickly glass coloured balconies have become a huge trend.

I wondered if the use of the orange glass was supposed to pick up from the use of orange glass in the library.

[RyeJay]

I wondered if the use of the orange glass was supposed to pick up from the use of orange glass in the library.

This is a possibility that's crossed my mind, as well.
Even without consideration of the library, orange is blue's complimentary colour -- which this residential development sports quite handsomely.

I'm thrilled by the trees and lighting this rendering shows for the sidewalks. The Spring Garden area needs more trees.

[haligonia]

This looks fantastic! I love the feel of the base (which almost looks like an updated Bishop's Landing) and the modernity of the upper floors. The orange balconies will looks great with the library.

[Phalanx]

Not sure how I feel about the round windows. I alternate between liking them and not, but... otherwise looks great.

I hope they follow through with the lighting and trees, as well.

[Keith P.]

I'm thrilled by the trees and lighting this rendering shows for the sidewalks. The Spring Garden area needs more trees.

That's the one aspect on the Queen St side especially that I do not like. The sidewalk seems narrow and the trees both encroach on the building (or will as they mature) and block the view of the commercial space. As a commercial tenant you want your business to be seen and not hidden behind excessive foliage. Hopefully that can fix this.

[someone123]

Interesting point. These buildings have an extra setback on Clyde to accommodate a larger sidewalk (a great idea), but they don't seem to have that on Queen and it wouldn't help much anyway because of the existing lots and buildings to the north. Trees along Queen are not important because a park is planned for the space behind the library, right across the street.

I think it's better to have a mix of treed and bare streetscapes, and a mix of different types of public spaces. I don't agree with the "green space everywhere" crowd and, actually, I think that having too much greenspace or too many trees can detract from their appeal. That's also a good way to stretch the city's budget and ensure that there are lots of poorly-used, poorly-maintained spaces. Halifax already has an abundance of public space that could be managed more efficiently and could support a large number of people. In Halifax I'd also argue that there's less of an advantage to having shade trees than in a lot of other cities. In the Southern US or California they are great because otherwise people have to contend with lots of sun and hot temperatures. Excess sun isn't really an issue in Halifax. The biggest climactic problems are wind and rain. Trees help a little with wind. To deal with rain the city should encourage more covered areas outside of new buildings. The Clyde Street buildings appear to have those.

The size and shape of the trees depend on the species that they choose and there are probably lots of varieties that would work. Vancouver has many cherry trees that look great, bloom early in the year, and don't seem to get too big. Hakodate, Halifax's sister city, has tons of them and a very similar climate to Halifax.

[ScovaNotian]

So one of the two is likely going to house NSLC? One can only hope that they won't take up much of the street frontage with taped over windows.

[Keith P.]

Yeah, I believe they are slotted for the entire Queen St frontage, or at least most of it. They aren't known for their entertaining store window displays.

[RyeJay]

Green space everywhere is logically impossible. It is incongruous to say fewer trees are more appreciable, in today's climate. I really don't care if people are desensitized by a large quantity of trees. Public worship isn't the goal.

Yes, California is more southern than Halifax....and Mexico is even more southern than California. I guess shade trees are more rational the further south you go. ...........OR, just maybe, anywhere that receives summer temperatures in the 30's (bingo: Halifax) is susceptible, especially in cities, to heat islands.

I'm fair-complected and have to be careful about burning. I don't feel too bad because even my black friends will burn under a summertime Haligonian sun.

The more trees the merrier.

[Jonovision]

Website is up http://www.thesistersites.ca/ and there is a public open house on Monday, June 11th in the Trillium offices.

[someone123]

Apparently the HbD design review committee meeting won't be held until August and so construction will not be able to start until September at the earliest. Construction of the second building could begin in the spring of 2013.

[sdm]

Apparently the HbD design review committee meeting won't be held until August and so construction will not be able to start until September at the earliest. Construction of the second building could begin in the spring of 2013.

Man those are some very small units.

Would have rather seen a design competition for the site, rather then the highest dollar bid trumps all. Who knows what others would have come up with.

Hopefully the approval will speed up.

[someone123]

I find it hard to make out the size and configuration of the units from the floor plans.

A design competition may have been interesting. My sense is that this is a pretty average development, but it will definitely be a lot better than the surface lots.

[planarchy]

Man those are some very small units.

Would have rather seen a design competition for the site, rather then the highest dollar bid trumps all. Who knows what others would have come up with.

Hopefully the approval will speed up.

They seem standard sizes to me - 550+SF for 1BR and 1000SF for 2 BR. That scale bar is in metres...a bit difficult to read

[Waye Mason]

Meeting tonight:

Monday, June 11 at 7 pm there is a public information meeting to introduce the development proposed for the “Mary Ann” site in the parking lot bounded by Birmingham, Clyde and Queen Streets. The meeting will be held in the Trillium Building at the corner of South Park Street and Brenton Place.

[Waye Mason]

After doing some poking around I don't think this is a PIM, as the proposal comes under HRMbD so this is just a public gander at the proposed design. I expect new renderings tonight!

[Waye Mason]

We can change this to 29m 9 floors.

15% low income, 20% below market for 15 years to "buy" the bonus height.

Building design is interesting... same as renderings here. Grey material below the brick is NS polished granite. What I found interesting is how much say, how demanding it appears HRM is, how much input they have... apparently the design changed from a traditional to a modern because of HRM staff input/demands. Really interesting...

Also, what was MOST interesting is how under HRMbD there is no PIM, there is just an open house. It is not the developers job to manage the neighbours, it is HRM staff's job to protect HRMbD and make sure that the project meets the goals expressed there. So there has been little to no communication with the neighbours across the road - because it was already done under HRMbD. There was lots of confusion...

Fares staff said that the 60 days starts in 15 days... this should be approved in 75 days.

This may be the first test of an HRMbD compliant plan that faces significant opposition, it will be interesting to see how it all plays out.

[someone123]

This may be the first test of an HRMbD compliant plan that faces significant opposition, it will be interesting to see how it all plays out.

Some of these people will never be happy because they want things that are completely unrealistic. The 9 storey height is already a good compromise between the highrise scale of some nearby buildings and the lowrise scale of Schmidtville. I predict that residents won't have much of a problem with these when they're built because they're across the street and they're being built to the north.

I am happy that they're using granite. In the past when councillors were voting on developments they often didn't even really establish what would be used and there'd be vague language like "stone-like material" (the architectural equivalent of "imitation cheddar processed soy loaf").

[someone123]

They reported on the open house in ANS tonight and the comments from the "Friends of Schmidtville" are pretty special. Same old complaints except they seem to have been taken to a new level. There's already a setback but they want a bigger one. It's only 9 storeys but they'd prefer 7 (and I guess it's fine to eliminate the below-market housing). Also it should "fit in" more with the other buildings -- in other words, where are the foam cornices?

Pretty good argument for why we don't need the case-by-case NIMBY critique.

[Waye Mason]

There should have been an explicit trade off... "you get heritage protection in Schmidtville, leave SGR alone." Instead staff said HP is 6 years away, which is after the NSLC property will be sold. So there are no plans in place, which is really unfortunate.

What I heard at the open house was lots of people worried about the LC property, which is three blocks away and probably will not even be a Fares project.

The streets from Clyde to the cemetery are the last contiguous old stock housing from that era, and it protecting it is worthwhile.

I feel like a whole lot more communication and some more action could be going on that would satisfy most of those concerned...

[worldlyhaligonian]

Typical. There is nothing wrong with this proposal.

What is wrong with these people? They've never been to Europe?

[someone123]

What I heard at the open house was lots of people worried about the LC property, which is three blocks away and probably will not even be a Fares project.

I do agree that it's a lot more reasonable to be concerned about the liquor store site than about a lowrise building across the street with a setback.

What's the HbD height for that lot? I'd guess that it's quite low? If the NSLC redevelopment is done properly it can be a good thing for the residential area.

[halifaxboyns]

The comments from FOS don't surprise me. The GM for the planning department out here retired and in his parting comments, he noted that the change that is being invisioned for Calgary is going to be tough on many communities. The fact is, some communities are resistent to change and Schmidtville is one example of that. 9 stories is a more than acceptable compromise considering the context of development around the site.

As to preserving the housing stock, they only have so much resources to go around. If it's going to take 6 years to do a heritage conservation district, it will take 6 years. It's either that or deliver a notice of motion through council directing administration to start it; but you'd better be prepared to find the $ to find resources for it.

[worldlyhaligonian]

The comments from FOS don't surprise me. The GM for the planning department out here retired and in his parting comments, he noted that the change that is being invisioned for Calgary is going to be tough on many communities. The fact is, some communities are resistent to change and Schmidtville is one example of that. 9 stories is a more than acceptable compromise considering the context of development around the site.

As to preserving the housing stock, they only have so much resources to go around. If it's going to take 6 years to do a heritage conservation district, it will take 6 years. It's either that or deliver a notice of motion through council directing administration to start it; but you'd better be prepared to find the $ to find resources for it.

Lol, how many groups are there now? Isn't it mostly just the same people again and again? Its a bunch of bullshit if you ask me.

HT,STV,FOS,FOPPP,FOCH,FOPG,EAC, blah blah blah

One thing is for sure, they are all NIMBY/BANANA

[someone123]

The comments from FOS don't surprise me. The GM for the planning department out here retired and in his parting comments, he noted that the change that is being invisioned for Calgary is going to be tough on many communities.

In a way Halifax might be worse than Calgary since in Halifax the growth is more moderate. Another difference is that a lot of people move to Calgary for economic reasons -- because it's growing -- whereas a lot of people in inner-city Halifax have simply been there for many decades. Areas like Spring Garden Road saw almost no construction from around 1990-2002 (there was LOTS of construction in the 1980's) and it seems like that became a new norm for many people.

Similarly in Halifax infrastructure problems develop slowly and it's hard to sell forward-thinking planning. There definitely seems to be an attitude in Halifax that transportation problems and the like aren't really a big deal and that they'll just sort themselves out, or something. We don't really need a third bridge, we don't really need Bayers Road widened, we can't have rail transit, but maybe we'll look at adding some new buses someday. Halifax's self image and planning regime is still in transition between a small town scale and the medium-sized city approach that will be required to tackle future problems.

Looking at Calgary's planning history really puts things into perspective. The C-Train was advocated in a 1967 report and the modern plan was adopted in 1977. According to Wikipedia construction started 1 month later, which I'm not sure has ever happened in the history of HRM. In 1977, Calgary had about 490,000 people. Right now Halifax is probably around 413,000.

[Waye Mason]

I think a heritage district there is a good idea, and I think that it would be easy to put controls/stays on construction/development in that area PENDING the completion of a comprehensive plan.

It isn't the fault of the residents that they are promised a heritage area and the municipality doesn't have the resources to do it fast enough to actually do any good. I understand their frustration.

I think an HD on one side of the street and 30 foot setbacks, wide treed streets, retail at grade (100% at grade) and a 9 story building with a setback at 4 stories on the other can work! These concepts are not mutually exclusive in my mind.

The lack of trust and understanding of the new process says to me HRM has not done a good job of liaising and communicating with residents. This is arguably part of the councillors job, but it is also staff too.

[worldlyhaligonian]

Similarly in Halifax infrastructure problems develop slowly and it's hard to sell forward-thinking planning. There definitely seems to be an attitude in Halifax that transportation problems and the like aren't really a big deal and that they'll just sort themselves out, or something. We don't really need a third bridge, we don't really need Bayers Road widened, we can't have rail transit, but maybe we'll look at adding some new buses someday. Halifax's self image and planning regime is still in transition between a small town scale and the medium-sized city approach that will be required to tackle future problems.



I think part of the problem is that people actually believe we have an acceptable public transit system.

Its the worst one I've ever been on, and that includes some pretty far flung places.

[halifaxboyns]

I think a heritage district there is a good idea, and I think that it would be easy to put controls/stays on construction/development in that area PENDING the completion of a comprehensive plan.

It isn't the fault of the residents that they are promised a heritage area and the municipality doesn't have the resources to do it fast enough to actually do any good. I understand their frustration.

I think an HD on one side of the street and 30 foot setbacks, wide treed streets, retail at grade (100% at grade) and a 9 story building with a setback at 4 stories on the other can work! These concepts are not mutually exclusive in my mind.

The lack of trust and understanding of the new process says to me HRM has not done a good job of liaising and communicating with residents. This is arguably part of the councillors job, but it is also staff too.

Putting controls on land development is outside of the scope of HRM - that is what the issue was when the Regional Plan was occuring. There was a lot rural subdivisions occuring which staff had concerns would put the goals of the plan in jeoprady but they had no mecahnism to stop accepting applications or stop subdivision - they could only refuse them and were trying that and being over turned at the UARB. So they had to go to the Province and get a ministerial order that temporarily limited subdivision in the rural area, which was repealed once the Regional Plan came into effect.

There is an inherant right in law that a land owner can make an application and must expect for it to be reviewed and a decision made. When property is zoned, they have a legal right to apply for the uses allowed on the land and go through the process, have a decision rendered and have a right to an appeal. If the city takes away zoning ability (down zones) there have been cases where a property owner has saught compensation and won. I suspect if you took away all development rights; you'd see a lot of court challenges because one could argue its practically an expropriation.

The only way to 100% guarentee no development occurs is for the city to own the land. Then they can decide when it gets developed.

[someone123]

I suspect if you took away all development rights; you'd see a lot of court challenges because one could argue its practically an expropriation.

This actually happened with some of the land around the Bedford Highway that was part of the estate Peter Kelly was dealing with. At one point the city decided to preserve some woodland and as part of that they down-zoned nearby private properties, effectively turning them into park land without paying for them and destroying much of their value. The details are in one of Tim Bousquet's articles.

How did the regional planning actually deal with exurban development? It seems like there's less of it now but I don't know many of the details. I think one of the solutions was to have a maximum density to severely cap how much housing could be built..? One approach would be development fees -- it wouldn't then be necessary to try to stop the development proposals because the craziest ones wouldn't be financially viable.

[eastcoastal]

Architect Geoff Keddy wrote a letter to AllNovaScotia complaining about the round windows.

Can't say that I think he's wrong, but round windows certainly don't seem like the type of complaint that will end up being substantial.

[someone123]

There's an article about this development in The Coast: http://www.thecoast.ca/RealityBites/archives/2012/06/13/schmidtville-neighbours-object-to-proposed-new-building&cb=17b96a40e243eb3f225d24641e6afbd9&sort=desc#readerComments

It has a slightly different version of the rendering:
http://www.thecoast.ca/imager/artists-rendering-of-the-proposed-new-building/b/original/3190745/f0aa/Mary_Ann.jpg

Most of the responses and the article itself are pretty confused. Tim Bousquet has chimed in with a theory about how the developer might get around the "affordable housing" rules by offering 20% discounts on penthouses, which does not on the face of it appear to make any financial sense. If we're assuming a 20% discount for a fixed number of units the best choice is to discount the lowest value units. This is normally what happens in other cities and it's fine.

I find this part of the article particularly misleading:

the property height restriction is seven storeys but developers can bypass HRM by Design rules if public amenities are included

The rules are not being bypassed. The provisions for added height in exchange for affordable housing are part of the rules. It seems the FOS are adopting the old STV/Heritage Trust trick of adding their own spin to HRM rules. They used to be fond of commenting that sites had "40 foot height limits" that developers were trying to get around. Totally misleading. In reality there was a framework for as-of-right development under that height or the development agreement process under the MPS.

[Waye Mason]

We have seen HRM put temporary stays on development before, right? This issue is whether it is forever or short period of time. I remember that the stopped rural permitting around the time they were putting parts of the regional plan in place? Some time ago, 10-12 years?


The only way to 100% guarentee no development occurs is for the city to own the land. Then they can decide when it gets developed.

Well that would solve the issue, just ask the prov to either hand over the NSLC property or even just let HRM do a development proposal process on the land like the Sister Sites RFPs. You could address the residents concerns by requiring design and massing that meets the look and feel of the historic area.

There are a lot of ways to solve problems like this, I'm open to ideas... but part of what HRM does so badly is anticipating stuff like this and working to ameliorate the problem.

[halifaxboyns]

We have seen HRM put temporary stays on development before, right? This issue is whether it is forever or short period of time. I remember that the stopped rural permitting around the time they were putting parts of the regional plan in place? Some time ago, 10-12 years?


Yes they did, but that was not because they had the power to do so, it was through an order in council from the Province that applied very strict restrictions and did so on a temporary basis.

That's a very nice rendering - looks good. Tim couldn't figure out planning if he was given a how to course, I'm not worried about his comments. I am a little surprised that the FoS didn't use their typical arguments about taking away from parking for the local businesses but it seems that one fell on deaf ears. I should say, we have a new General Manager of Planning out here in Calgary and as I've researched him, his blog on urban planning issues is very interesting. Rollin Stanley is our new GM and he has some great comments about interesting places, but my favorite was this one: 'No place is worth visiting that doesn't have a parking problem'. I'm excited he's in charge, should be really interesting!

[pchipman]

http://www.thecoast.ca/imager/artists-rendering-of-the-proposed-new-building/b/original/3190745/f0aa/Mary_Ann.jpg

I have to agree with Geoff Keddy about those round windows...

[someone123]

There are a lot of ways to solve problems like this, I'm open to ideas... but part of what HRM does so badly is anticipating stuff like this and working to ameliorate the problem.

I am not really sure the root cause of this poor performance is. I don't know if it's that they're too busy and understaffed, that they are disorganized, or that they create problems for themselves. Maybe it's all 3. Stuff like Jazz and the 5 month delay for Fenwick just makes me shake my head, and the NSLC is the kind of thing that seems obvious to look at but you know it'll sit there for a while.

As I've said before, when I spent some time in other cities like Toronto and Vancouver I was amazed at how things just get done. Everything in Halifax feels like a trainwreck with months or years of bureaucratic delays. Here in Vancouver it's not uncommon for a private developer or the government to announce a major project, begin work within a couple of months, and complete it on schedule.

[Keith P.]

http://www.thecoast.ca/imager/artists-rendering-of-the-proposed-new-building/b/original/3190745/f0aa/Mary_Ann.jpg

I have to agree with Geoff Keddy about those round windows...

Absolutely. They look like something you would buy at Rona.

I am unimpressed with the overall design. Looks pretty ordinary for such a prominent site.

[Waye Mason]

Absolutely. They look like something you would buy at Rona.

I am unimpressed with the overall design. Looks pretty ordinary for such a prominent site.

This will be a nice test of the design review committee... see if they can get rid of those windows and make it a bit more exciting.

[RyeJay]

http://www.thecoast.ca/imager/artists-rendering-of-the-proposed-new-building/b/original/3190745/f0aa/Mary_Ann.jpg

I have to agree with Geoff Keddy about those round windows...

I'm not understanding people's various subjective comments in opposition to these circular windows. These windows are my favourite part of this project. The building itself seems fairly typical, and the windows add something different than what we see in most buildings around the downtown. I don't find the break in pattern from 'square' to 'circle' that offensive...

To what horrible things are people associating these windows?

[pchipman]

Although I do not feel offended by them, I do feel they are too small. They just look ineffective to me.