[ST1]

These guys claim Waterloo is now the Silicon valley of Canada. Personally I'm not sure it still isn't Ottawa, but anyhow....given this is in the Canada section, it should prove to be the usual retarded bickerfest.

<heads off to get popcorn, waits for the usual idiots to show up and battle it out>



http://www.techvibes.com/blog/will-the-real-silicon-valley-north-please-stand-up-2011-03-04

http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/6664/scr1299524226.jpg

[Me&You]

These guys claim Waterloo is now the Silicon valley of Canada. Personally I'm not sure it still isn't Ottawa, but anyhow....given this is in the Canada section, it should prove to be the usual retarded bickerfest.

<heads off to get popcorn, waits for the usual idiots to show up and battle it out>



http://www.techvibes.com/blog/will-the-real-silicon-valley-north-please-stand-up-2011-03-04

http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/6664/scr1299524226.jpg

One stat that stands out is that 10% of Calgary's work force is in tech (~100,000 people), while "only" 6% of Waterloo's regional population is, yet it's the "Silicon Valley"? I would have thought a higher percentage of Waterloo-ians would be involved in the sector that they're so widely known for...

[caltrane74]

One stat that stands out is that 10% of Calgary's work force is in tech (~100,000 people), while "only" 6% of Waterloo's regional population is, yet it's the "Silicon Valley"? I would have thought a higher percentage of Waterloo-ians would be involved in the sector that they're so widely known for...

I think they based everything on Blackberry. And that company is going down. All the new mobile app players are in Toronto, and when Blackberry is finished Toronto will be the top high-tech city in the country.

Funny enough, I work for one of the Toronto mobile app start-ups.

[LeftCoaster]

Wow, who created this mess?

1st question... Where is Montreal?

2nd question... Calgary at the same level as Vancouver? And blowing away Ottawa?

3rd question... Why bother posting this mess? Eye weekly is a free weekly that of its 30 pages, 6 are ads for prostitution and call girls.

Just terrible.

[Surrealplaces]

Wow, who created this mess?

1st question... Where is Montreal?

2nd question... Calgary at the same level as Vancouver? And blowing away Ottawa?

3rd question... Why bother posting this mess? Eye weekly is a free weekly that of its 30 pages, 6 are ads for prostitution and call girls.

Just terrible.

The list is very vague obviously. Are they talking per capita, or raw numbers? There aren't really any stats for what they're talking about. Obviously raw numbers would have Toronto and Ottawa at the top. Montreal would also be there.

As far as Calgary being level with Vancouver, I'm not surprised. There is alot more high tech here than people realize. Much of it tied into Oil and Gas though.

[PoscStudent]

It annoys me that the province and in particular St. John's doesn't try harder to get high-tech companies here. It could be the perfect industry for the St. John's area seeing there doesn't need to be manufactoring involved, which in some cases is the problem with attracting businesses here.

[Wooster]

Clearly the answer is there is no clear standout in this area. Does there need to be?

[reidjr]

Ottawa is not the low there is more high tech ten people seem to think.

[MolsonExport]

Ubisoft Montreal, anyone? Not that I think MTL should lead the list, but it should be on it.

Ahh fuk these silly subjectives lists.

[MonkeyRonin]

One stat that stands out is that 10% of Calgary's work force is in tech (~100,000 people), while "only" 6% of Waterloo's regional population is, yet it's the "Silicon Valley"? I would have thought a higher percentage of Waterloo-ians would be involved in the sector that they're so widely known for...

Calgary's workforce is not 1 million, nor is KW's 500,000. Those are their populations. Calgary's (CMA) labour force as of 2006 was 658,510, while KW's was 257,695.

[mr.John]

I think they based everything on Blackberry. And that company is going down. All the new mobile app players are in Toronto, and when Blackberry is finished Toronto will be the top high-tech city in the country.

Funny enough, I work for one of the Toronto mobile app start-ups.

People have been predicting Blackberry's demise for the last 5 years, and will probably keep doing so for the next 5 or 10 years...I'm willing to bet your company goes belly up before Blackberry

[Doug]

Clearly the answer is there is no clear standout in this area. Does there need to be?

There is no standout as Canada isn't really a tech leader. There are dozens of US (and Israeli, Korean, Japanese etc.) with larger tech sectors than any of these.

How does one define tech sector employment? Is it simply whether a company's business focus is technology or is it by actual job role? For example, should employees working for a Canadian sales office of tech giants like SAP, MSFT or ORCL count?

[Me&You]

Calgary's workforce is not 1 million, nor is KW's 500,000. Those are their populations. Calgary's (CMA) labour force as of 2006 was 658,510, while KW's was 257,695.

Thanks for looking up those nifty stats, but the article states "ten percent of it's (Calgary's) population works in the tech sector".

I mis-typed "work force"... If what is written is true, then comparing apples-to-apples means, based on the numbers in this piece, that 6% of K-W is employed in tech, while it claims 10% of Calgary is...

Again, not saying the numbers are right, just basing it on what's written.

[someone123]

It annoys me that the province and in particular St. John's doesn't try harder to get high-tech companies here. It could be the perfect industry for the St. John's area seeing there doesn't need to be manufactoring involved, which in some cases is the problem with attracting businesses here.

Trying to attract companies from elsewhere is a bad strategy. The NF government should try to offer a good tax environment, maybe money for startups, and invest in education.

[caltrane74]

People have been predicting Blackberry's demise for the last 5 years, and will probably keep doing so for the next 5 or 10 years...I'm willing to bet your company goes belly up before Blackberry

Blackberry is going down! - They can't compete with Google and Android.

Hell Nokia, which is bigger than Blackberry is going down. Or at least they had to give up on their native tech, and go with Microsoft otherwise be driven into oblivion. Blackberry will have to abandon their native tech also, if they want to compete in the globalized market place.

Of course my company makes apps for all 3 platforms, so it makes no difference to me which ones go down and which ones stick around.

[Coldrsx]

Interesting to note that in the recent 'fast 50' growth firms in technology for Alberta, Edmonton had most of the fastest growing.

[MonkeyRonin]

but the article states "ten percent of it's (Calgary's) population works in the tech sector".


Hmm, it does. Though 15% of the workforce in the high-tech industry certainly doesn't sound quite right to me. But if it is then it'd be the city's largest industry after sales service-type stuff.

[gammell]

None of the above? Silicon Valley has such a tremendous density of skill and capital devoted towards high-tech endeavours that it creates a global pull such that most high-tech start-ups and established companies feel compelled to have a presence there to tap into the substantial resource pool. I can't think of anywhere in Canada with a gravity even proportionally comparable, apart from certain specialized categories. Montreal has recently begun to have that kind of pull in video-game development, for example, but nobody has really serious pull in a very broad range of categories. Nor do I expect that anywhere in Canada will develop that kind of industrial gravity.

A more straight-forward comparison of the tech hubs around Canada might be of some value (e.g. Where are they developing, and why? What categories are they strong in? Which are they weak in? Why?). I suppose that's not nearly as juicy as parceling out second-hand monikers though.

[gammell]

Hmm, it does. Though 15% of the workforce in the high-tech industry certainly doesn't sound quite right to me. But if it is then it'd be the city's largest industry after sales service-type stuff.
Depends on the definition of "high-tech" that's in play. A great deal of the resource industry in Calgary involves engineering, R&D, computer science, etc. If a company writes software that models oil reservoirs based on geophysical imaging, is that the resource industry, high-tech industry, or both?

[PoscStudent]

Trying to attract companies from elsewhere is a bad strategy. The NF government should try to offer a good tax environment, maybe money for startups, and invest in education.

The NL government has done all that, I lay most of the blame on St. John's. How is a company suppose to start up here when there's no office space? They've also allowed the city to sprawl out of control which has resulted in higher taxes.

I'd be interested in knowing how an economic free zone would work in St. John's or some other Canadian city. Dubai created Internet City which has seen a bunch of information technology companies set-up there.

[skrish]

Interesting to note that in the recent 'fast 50' growth firms in technology for Alberta, Edmonton had most of the fastest growing.

I have recruited for both IBM and HP for the Western Canada Region. Calgary probably does 10 to 12 times the volume that Edmonton see's in a year. I have recruited contractually for a lot of large companies within Alberta as well and the talent pool comes directly from Calgary.

In terms of sheer volume nationally, it goes Toronto/GTA, Montreal and then Calgary. Ottawa and Vancouver/Burnaby hold there own fairly well, with Edmonton closely following up. Regina does surprisingly well for a city of its size.

[kw5150]

I have recruited for both IBM and HP for the Western Canada Region. Calgary probably does 10 to 12 times the volume that Edmonton see's in a year. I have recruited contractually for a lot of large companies within Alberta as well and the talent pool comes directly from Calgary.

In terms of sheer volume nationally, it goes Toronto/GTA, Montreal and then Calgary. Ottawa and Vancouver/Burnaby hold there own fairly well, with Edmonton closely following up. Regina does surprisingly well for a city of its size.

thank you for ending this thread so perfectly.

[someone123]

IBM/HP presence in various cities might not correlate very well with the overall size of the "high tech" industry (and how much of IBM/HP is actual developers of software/hardware vs. sales and support people?). EA is probably the largest employer of actual software developers in Vancouver, not HP or IBM.

Something else to consider is that the most interesting and innovative work is often done by people who do consulting and/or run small companies. A lot of these people can set up wherever. Some people work for Bay Area companies but live in Vancouver for example, so it's probably challenging to say exactly what the totals are in different cities. Up until recently I was just working out of my house.

[Waterlooson]

Blackberry is going down! - They can't compete with Google and Android.

Hell Nokia, which is bigger than Blackberry is going down. Or at least they had to give up on their native tech, and go with Microsoft otherwise be driven into oblivion. Blackberry will have to abandon their native tech also, if they want to compete in the globalized market place.

Of course my company makes apps for all 3 platforms, so it makes no difference to me which ones go down and which ones stick around.

Please try to familiarize yourself with the facts... RIM continues to grow like crazy... currently, they have over 1,300 jobs on offer. How may new employees is your company looking for? RIM makes a few billion dollars in profits, sells millions of phones and adds millions of subscribers each quarter! And you think they are going down? How long have you been predicting that? Duh?

There isn't a single city in Canada that is "silicon valley of the North".... but Waterloo is where it is most highly concentrated... RIM is Canada's largest (by far) tech company, and Open Text (of Waterloo) is Canada's largest software company. Additionally, the University of Waterloo has become the world's leading institute for studies in Quantum Computing. Google, Raytheon and too many others to list have operations in Waterloo.

[O-Town Hockey]

OK, let's set the facts straight. Waterloo is doing amazing proportionally, but it does not have more of tech workers that Ottawa has. There is a large discrepancy between Statscan and OCRI (Ottawa Centre for Research and Innovation) numbers for tech jobs in Ottawa. Statscan says there are 42900 and OCRI claims there are 74600, but it all has to do with what you count a tech job and the actual number is probably somewhere in the middle.
(see http://www.ottawacitizen.com/Ottawa+tech+jobs+Whose+numbers/4188999/story.html)

Now Waterloo's numbers state that:
Waterloo Region is known around the world for its high tech industry and is often called Canada’s Technology Triangle (CTT). More than 400 high tech companies employ over 18,000 people.
This is Statscan data from 2004, but I'm sure their tech workforce has not doubled in the last 6 years and, even if it did, it would still be less than Ottawa's conservative estimate. Actually, the front page of this thread pegs the numbers at around 30000 for Waterloo, which is probably pretty generous.

Ottawa also has more than 1800 different tech companies employing these people, making it much less susceptible to market fluctuations than Waterloo.

This is all to say that Ottawa is not quite ready to give up our crown as Silicon Valley North.

Please correct me if I'm wrong and Waterloo has indeed more than doubled its tech workforce.

[Waterlooson]

K-W-C has about 30,000 tech workers (very heavily concentrated in Waterloo).... I've seen the employment numbers over the years... and that figure looks about right.... 18,000 is way too low (out of date). "The Record" (local newspaper) had a fantastic digital magazine about Waterloo's tech industry... only wish I could find it to post now.

Circa 2004, RIM had maybe 3,000 employees in Waterloo... now it's over 8,000... Open Text and many others have grown a lot too.... lots of construction for the tech sector in Waterloo... Ottawa's tech sector may be bigger, but not by much.

As far as tech start ups, Waterloo is considered the leader in Canada...

[The_Architect]

My school tends to help Waterloo's rep. ;) :D

[Waterlooson]

"According to the 2010 edition of the Waterloo Region Tech Directory and State of the Industry report, company growth in the Waterloo Region has jumped 21% over the past two years.

The full release of the 2010 Tech Directory will coincide with the Communitech 2010 Tech Leadership Conference slated for Wednesday, July 14 in Waterloo.

The study, based on a survey and an inventory of technology firms in Waterloo Region and area in January and February this year, says that the number of tech companies in the region has now hit 700 compared to 550 in 2008. Total invested venture capital in Waterloo Region tech companies exceeds $300 million, and tech firms account for $18 billion in annual revenues. It's the first time that digital media has been mentioned in the report.

Other key findings in the study include:

* Majority of regional tech firms are small to medium enterprises with 51 percent having between 1 and 5 employees;
* Waterloo Region boasts 25 publicly-traded tech companies,10 of which have headquarters elsewhere;
* Four of the five top 50 Canadian merger and acquisition deals were with Waterloo Region-based companies.
* 30,000 people are employed in tech companies in the Waterloo Region."

http://www.techvibes.com/blog/waterloo-tech-sector-jumps-by-21-in-2-years

[dtgeek]

None of the above? Silicon Valley has such a tremendous density of skill and capital devoted towards high-tech endeavours that it creates a global pull such that most high-tech start-ups and established companies feel compelled to have a presence there to tap into the substantial resource pool. I can't think of anywhere in Canada with a gravity even proportionally comparable, apart from certain specialized categories.

Exactly this. I grew up in Canada and left to work in tech in Silicon Valley along with dozens of other people I know, because there just isn't anywhere in Canada that is remotely comparable. It's a completely different culture down here, much more entrepreneurial, with oodles of money being thrown around. Most of the good tech startups in Canada end up being bought up by large US based companies before you even hear about them. It's very difficult to secure the kind of private equity needed to grow large before turning a profit if you're not in the US.

RIM is a nice exception, but also lucked out by having most of their growth happen at a time when enrollment in computer science and engineering at UW was in the middle of a huge spike. They had droves of co-op students and graduates to recruit from. But enrollment tanked in the early-mid 2000s after the .com bubble, and is way down from what it was then. I agree with Cal that they've got a tough challenge ahead of them to continue to stay as relevant and profitable as they have been. I'm seeing more resumes come in from RIM employees than ever these days.

I'm not sure any Canadian city should *want* to be the next Silicon Valley in any case. Unless you enjoy miles and miles of suburban office parks and no public transit to speak of as soon as you get outside of San Francisco proper. It's all in all just not a very nice place to live apart from the weather.

[dtgeek]

As far as tech start ups, Waterloo is considered the leader in Canada...

This is just not true. There are far more tech startups in Toronto.

[Waterlooson]

This is just not true. There are far more tech startups in Toronto.

I should have been more clear... I meant the University of Waterloo.

[Waterlooson]

I agree with Cal that they've got a tough challenge ahead of them to continue to stay as relevant and profitable as they have been. I'm seeing more resumes come in from RIM employees than ever these days.



Of course you see more resumes from RIM employees than ever because there are more RIM employees now than ever.... RIM has always had a tough challenge ahead of them... recall circa 2003... most analysts thought that MS was going to crush them like a bug... the opposite is what happened.

[Coldrsx]

I have recruited for both IBM and HP for the Western Canada Region. Calgary probably does 10 to 12 times the volume that Edmonton see's in a year. I have recruited contractually for a lot of large companies within Alberta as well and the talent pool comes directly from Calgary.

In terms of sheer volume nationally, it goes Toronto/GTA, Montreal and then Calgary. Ottawa and Vancouver/Burnaby hold there own fairly well, with Edmonton closely following up. Regina does surprisingly well for a city of its size.

Thanks for the insight, makes sense, for most firms here are emerging and relatively small... For now.

[craneSpotter]

From stats and stuff I've read recently, I recall the larger high-tech (Information and Communication Technology software & equipment development/manufacturing - ICT; Biotech; University research; nanotech; health technology etc) clusters as follows:

TO (Markham!) - largest by far (over 200k in ICT alone)
Montreal - huge
Ottawa (over 73k in ICT)
Vancouver (over 75k in ICT)
Waterloo-Kitchener (RIM!)

Other good sized ones:
Calgary (41k in ICT, energy industry support), Edmonton (biotech-medical, nanotech - fast growing), Saskatoon (biotech-agritech fast growing), Halifax (research)

[Waterlooson]

For "Waterloo Region" with 30,000 tech workers, I checked and found that the number is a bit higher than that, but that figure includes Guelph (a small contributor)... and RIM now has 10,600 employees in Waterloo Region... so about a third of K-W-C-G (4-headed monster) tech employees work for RIM.

http://technextmag.therecord.com/Index.aspx

They claim the Waterloo area is Canada's fastest growing tech cluster.

[mr.John]

Of course you see more resumes from RIM employees than ever because there are more RIM employees now than ever.... RIM has always had a tough challenge ahead of them... recall circa 2003... most analysts thought that MS was going to crush them like a bug... the opposite is what happened.

People across Canada for some strange reason seem to want to see RIM fail, must be all those Apple zombies

[vid]

Calgary has something KW doesn't have: Another industry for which the city is better known. Calgary isn't Silicon Valley North because the oil industry is too visible there. I never would have thought there was that much high tech going on in Calgary.

[Waterlooson]

A big reason why Calgary has a tech sector is because of the oil industry.... whereas, a big reason why Waterloo has a tech industry is because of the University of Waterloo.

[Cambridgite]

Calgary has something KW doesn't have: Another industry for which the city is better known.

Let's not get too hasty now. KW also has a very large insurance sector, and manufacturing makes up a large chunk of the employment base as well (especially down in Cambridge). We may not have the oil, but we do have the advantage of being in the economic heartland of Canada, on the 401 near the GTA and multiple border crossings to the most heavily populated parts of the US. Actually, I've once heard of KW being referred to as the Hartford of Canada for the insurance sector. I'm not sure about how accurate a comparison that is though. Urban-form wise, I think it would have far more in common with a place like San Jose.

At the end of the day, Silicon Valley is the real Silicon Valley. No Canadian city will hold a candle to it.

[freeweed]

Blackberry is going down! - They can't compete with Google and Android.

And 2 years ago, Blackberry was going down(!) because it couldn't compete with the iPhone.

Yet somehow, RIM keeps growing. NEVER underestimate corporate inertia. It's the sole reason y'all are still likely typing on this forum from a PC running Windows.

[freeweed]

:previous: K-W does indeed have a huge presence in the insurance industry, but it's just not something sexy enough to be talked about like oil or tech. Outside of insurance or general financial talk, I just can't ever see anyone in the media getting excited about the "Hartford of the north". :haha:

[Cambridgite]

:previous: K-W does indeed have a huge presence in the insurance industry, but it's just not something sexy enough to be talked about like oil or tech. Outside of insurance or general financial talk, I just can't ever see anyone in the media getting excited about the "Hartford of the north". :haha:

lol..but perhaps it's fitting in a ways. My friend used to work on a co-op term in Conneticut and he said Hartford was kinda boring.

[Waterlooson]

And 2 years ago, Blackberry was going down(!) because it couldn't compete with the iPhone.

Yet somehow, RIM keeps growing. NEVER underestimate corporate inertia. It's the sole reason y'all are still likely typing on this forum from a PC running Windows.

Blackberry was not "going down" 2 years ago because the market for what they sold was expanding so tremendously... why can't some people understand this fact?

"Yet somehow"? RIM keeps growing because their products sell like crazy.

BTW, I'm using a 27" IMac (sweet) to post this.

[freeweed]

Blackberry was not "going down" 2 years ago because the market for what they sold was expanding so tremendously... why can't some people understand this fact?

"Yet somehow"? RIM keeps growing because their products sell like crazy.

BTW, I'm using a 27" IMac (sweet) to post this.

I don't think you caught the sarcasm in my post. ;) I was basically pointing out your bolded bits here.

[Waterlooson]

Now that's better.