[kph06]

Case 16783 Details (http://www.halifax.ca/planning/Case16783Details.html)

Since this now has a name and an application for a development agreement has been made I figured I'd make a thread. This is the formal proposal for the Clayton Developments lands off Washmill Lake Drive. Not a terribly inspiring design, but it will be an interesting cluster of height on top of the hill.

Site Plan (http://www.halifax.ca/planning/documents/16770SitePlan.pdf)

Elevations (http://www.halifax.ca/planning/documents/16770Elevations.pdf)

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5011/5576529249_ac38b8a874_b.jpg
Source (http://www.halifax.ca/planning/documents/16770Concept.pdf)

[dmac26]

If we can learn anything from the past- Le Corbusier's Radiant City idea was great for preserving park space but these types of developments do not make great communities. This part of the City in my opinion has gone to far with these suburban condos, yet we can't get a decent residential tower in the downtown core.

[DigitalNinja]

Ugh, too much green and to accessible for cars.

[-Harlington-]

not amazing but not to bad,
and is that no surface parking that i see ?
:O

[halifaxboyns]

There is suface parking - have a look at the site plan. I actually don't think this is too bad - I'm curious about the common building in the middle? What amenities will be in it? Never mind, just looked at the floor plans, gym, ball room and swimming pool. Very nice.

I think this is a reasonably good cluster development for high density; retains some good green space (has community gardens - see site plan). My concern with the pedestrian level is the large blankwalls at grade appear to be 2 stories to conceal the indoor parking? I'm not a fan of that...they could do something to make that better. Put in fake windows perhaps?

But I don't think this is horrible. It's a great way to get a huge chunk of density into these typically low density communities. If you look at Bedford West, I did a rough calculation of the cumulative gross density so far and it came out to an average of about 22 persons/acre, which is sad. I think at the end it might be upward of 40, which is good but it just hasn't gotten there yet. Plus, won't this be within walking distance of the new transit site on Willet street for Lacewood? Isn't that the site they went with?

[someone123]

These are better than lower density detached houses but they are still poorly-designed suburbia.

Even if the developer wanted to make this pedestrian-oriented it would probably largely fail because everything else in this area is car-oriented. The city needs to take the lead here and encourage better road networks, higher densities, better site planning, etc. Right now what's happening is pretty much the opposite due to density limits, parking requirements, and minimum setbacks.

[MonctonRad]

I personally rather like this. I think that it's good density and the idea of the central building with pool and other common recreational facilities is quite nice. It might help to build a sense of community for this development. There is also nothing wrong with the green space IMHO.

I think large developments such as this should include some basic retailing services such as a community convenience store, post office and magazine shop. This would help to defeat the suburban car culture. This development is also probably large enough to have it's own bus stop.

[-Harlington-]

they should have some retail type walkable area around here

there is enough significantly large buildings there to warrant a few generic stores so they dont have to walk/drive to bayers lake or lacewood areas

[fenwick16]

I like the appearance of this development and, with four 12 storey buildings, it will be quite impressive from the Bi-Centennial Highway. I pasted the site layout drawing - http://www.halifax.ca/planning/documents/16770SitePlan.pdf - unto a screen capture of Bing Maps. This is approximately where it will be located. The scale might be a bit off (but I think that it is within about +/-20%). The following document gives a description of the location - "Block B" - http://www.halifax.ca/planning/documents/01304StageI_DA.pdf

http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/6125/washmilllakedevelopment.jpg

[coolmillion]

I agree with someone123. There is a serious lack of pedestrian infrastructure and connectivity. Even if sidewalks are included it's unlikely people will use them if there are no destinations within easy reach. Allowing this type of development to go ahead without all of the other pieces in place is short-sighted. The vast majority of all trips in and out will be made by car. That doesn't exactly jive with the long term goals of the regional plan. With such high population density the road network in this part of town should be much better than it is.

[halifaxboyns]

I would also agree with someone123 as well. I'm willing to guess this will have no connection to the multi to the left of fenwick's image.

In this context, I don't think that groundfloor retail is going to work too well - although the centre common building has a cafe according to the plans. It would work better if this community had been designed to pedestrian friendly and lots more high density clustered around it. Say two more of these on either side of the proposal and then something similar below it - but more pedestrian oriented (closer to the street; better walking connections).

[spaustin]

Talk about ugly! It may look alright as a rendering from a viewpoint that you would only ever see if were sitting in a helicopter, but this going to be one of the most ugly developments from the ground. Blank brick walls on all four buildings going up to the second floor? Yuck! Should make an attractive target for graffiti.

[halifaxboyns]

Talk about ugly! It may look alright as a rendering from a viewpoint that you would only ever see if were sitting in a helicopter, but this going to be one of the most ugly developments from the ground. Blank brick walls on all four buildings going up to the second floor? Yuck! Should make an attractive target for graffiti.

That's what I was saying earlier - I'd love to see what a CPTED would say about the blank walls?

[fenwick16]

Other than the blank walls, I like the layout. It appears as though the blank walls hide two levels of an above ground parking garage. I think that a simple fix would be to have open air parking levels. Most people (especially women) would probably feel safer with the parking levels open. Personally, I see nothing wrong with having the lowest garage level completely open.

[Jstaleness]

I'd rather see two 24 storey buildings there.

[eastcoastal]

OK- I have to say I think this is potentially disastrous. Whoever mentioned the shitty Corbusian towers in parks that were part of the urban design thinking of the mid-century was right. These isolated stacks of people floating out in green-space are terrible responses to the need to house human beings.

Give me a break. A cafe in the common building? My guess is that within a few years the cafe will be out of business. Nothing to do here, but drive to your parking spot and scuttle up to your unit.

Ugh.

[fenwick16]

This is a suburban development. Just because high density might be best for transportation and shopping it doesn't mean that everybody will want to live in such an environment. Many people who live near cities will still want lower density and there should be that option.

If you look at the site layout this is within walking distance of the Bayers Lake Shopping area. People who can't walk less than a kilometer are probably just lazy. And why wouldn't 360 units be able to support at least a cafe or some sort of convenience store (there are small towns this size in Nova Scotia that can support more than one store)?

Are people looking at the rendering surrounded by wide open fields and thinking that this is reality? if you look at the site plan this is already surrounded by apartment buildings. This link shows the location where this is being built (next to the water tank) - http://www.bing.com/maps/?v=2&cp=rf7cb19pv1wm&lvl=16&dir=0&sty=b&where1=Halifax%2C%20NS&q=halifax%2C%20nova%20scortia&FORM=LMLTCC . It is also within walking distance of the new Halifax Mainland Commons building, baseball diamonds, shopping ... If people are going to just drive up and stay in their apartment then that is probably their choice, not due to lack of amenities. (The Washmill Lake Underpass will be complete before the first apartment building is complete - I assume there will be a sidewalk leading directly under the Bi-Centennial Highway to the Bayers Lake Shopping area. The only way to get closer is to build apartment buildings within the Bayers Lake Shopping parking lots)

The location will likely be a selling point for this development. On the other hand, I don't like the two storey blank walls.

[DigitalNinja]

My problem is with the HRM allowing as much sprawl as they are.
This is comparing apples to oranges but just for a comparison.
HRM is about 5500km sq and has a pop of about 400,000 people. It's about 70 people for every square kilometer.
Shanghai is close to the size of HRM at 7500km sq and has a population of 19 million people. They should change the boundaries of HRM, because as of now, many people who live in the city their tax dollars are just going towards fixing roads for everyone else.

[fenwick16]

I agree with the concept of reducing urban sprawl but the density for this development is 30 people per acre which works out to 30 people/acre x 247 acres/(sq. km) = 7,410 people/(sq. Km). But of course this isn't a square kilometer so there won't be 7,410 people at this project.

If there were 7,410 people/(sq. km) x 5500 sq. km throughout the HRM there would be 40,755,000 people in the HRM.

PS: As a comparison - the city of Toronto http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Toronto_map.png (not the entire metropolitan area) has 2,503,281 people on 630 square km = 3973 people/(square km) - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toronto . This is 3973 people/(square km) x 1(sq km)/247acres = 3973/247 = 16 people per acre.

This following link has some interesting information regarding efficient suburban density - http://www.ti.org/vaupdate17.html . I don't know how accurate it is and I don't know anything about the organization that published it.

PS: My point is - this Panorama development is a step towards reducing urban sprawl. In my opinion, encouraging urban sprawl means encouraging growth in places like Timberlea, Fall River, Waverly, Sackville ...

[spaustin]

And why wouldn't 360 units be able to support at least a cafe or some sort of convenience store (there are small towns this size in Nova Scotia that can support more than one store)?



See the thing is a small town is usually a place that other people, besides the immediate townsfolk, also pass through. Out in the rural areas, there tends to also be less competition. I don't think this development has any of the required conditions for winning retail. It's basically a deadend so it's really not going to draw in anyone from outside the development leaving about 700 people, tops, to market to. Those 700 people live in a large city whose travels take them all over the place and not some small town with one store/cafe/restaurant to choose from. They have plenty of choices about where to spend their dollars. Given the current design, I just don't see this as a great spot for retail.

[DigitalNinja]

I'm not saying we should have 40 million people in HRM, but my point was that for a major city it is a painfully low density, and the reorganization of countys could seriously help the problem.

[fenwick16]

See the thing is a small town is usually a place that other people, besides the immediate townsfolk, also pass through. Out in the rural areas, there tends to also be less competition. I don't think this development has any of the required conditions for winning retail. It's basically a deadend so it's really not going to draw in anyone from outside the development leaving about 700 people, tops, to market to. Those 700 people live in a large city whose travels take them all over the place and not some small town with one store/cafe/restaurant to choose from. They have plenty of choices about where to spend their dollars. Given the current design, I just don't see this as a great spot for retail.

I agree with what you stated but this only needs to support 1000 square meters (10,764 square feet) of commercial space - http://www.halifax.ca/planning/documents/01304StageI_DA.pdf . If the developer feels that they can rent or sell more space than this I am sure that they will build it.

I live in a dense, mostly detached-home, suburban area of the GTA (the development has about 10-12 homes per square acre not including streets and parks, so the density per square acre is probably only about 15 - 20 people/acre). The local area convenience store usually has lineups even though people can drive to shopping malls just 5 minutes away. So I think that 30 people per square acre can easily support some minor retail.

Maybe I am missing the point of this discussion? There is already a major shopping area within walking distance of this development (Bayers Lake Shopping area). There can be pedestrian paths to the neighboring apartment buildings that surround this project (it would encourage people to walk instead of drive).

In addition to this multi-dwelling project, I think that the HRM could use more dense single family developments. Instead of lots with more than 50 foot wide frontage, 30 foot wide lots can accommodate single family homes (my lot is 36 feet wide and these lots were advertised as being wider than standard lots).

I'm not saying we should have 40 million people in HRM, but my point was that for a major city it is a painfully low density, and the reorganization of countys could seriously help the problem.

I completely agree with what you stated but using 5500 square kilometers to work out the urban density gives an artificially low density number. Most of that 5500 square kilometers is not yet developed - maybe it will be in 100 - 200 years time. At 30 people per acre, Halifax will be a very highly populated city at that time in the future. I think the urban core should be more dense than 30 people per square acre, however, 30 people per acre for the suburbs is good.

[DigitalNinja]

My house is wider than your lot. XD

[fenwick16]

My house is wider than your lot. XD

But shouldn't you be living in a denser neighbourhood to encourage higher density in the HRM :) ?

[Keith P.]

Bayers Lake is not a walking destination. Much of it has no sidewalks and the stores are located in acres and acres of parking lots. Hardly pedestrian-friendly.

[DigitalNinja]

Should be, but the transit is good here, take the 185 into Scotia Square is only 20 minutes. Why pay 350k for the same house? I'm sure that is what a lot of other people think as well, but land is so widely available the prices in the burbs are so much more inexpensive.
For example if you were to take a bus from bayers lake into Halifax it would take you over half an our, from sackville to Halifax, 20 minutes, so much less time and it's even further away, something is wrong in this city.
And yes, what Keith said is true, there are 0 sidewalks in bayers lake, it is hard even to cross the main street there.

[coolmillion]

Yes, to reiterate Bayer's Lake is a disaster for pedestrians. Since it is the main shopping area for the nearby residential areas (+ thousands more), everyone drives and the traffic is horrendous. It was designed as an industrial park and ended up becoming a commercial shopping area without proper pedestrian upgrades. You could walk, but sidewalks are patchy, you often have to walk across enormous parking lots and the whole area is alienating if you're not in a car. I've seen people on foot struggle over embankments, snow mounds, booting it when the green light doesn't allow enough time to cross. Worst irony - Access Nova Scotia moving out there.

The point is we can do a much better job of planning suburban communities. Panorama just continues with the status quo.

[fenwick16]

Here is a Street View link for the Bayers Lake area - http://maps.google.ca/maps?hl=en&q=halifax,+nova+scotia&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Halifax,+Halifax+County,+Nova+Scotia&t=h&layer=c&cbll=44.648825,-63.675033&panoid=mGSkN5J05jzwdAPEscKJ8w&cbp=12,339.34,,0,9.12&ll=44.648689,-63.674998&spn=0.021616,0.066047&z=15 . It does look like it is too spread out. There is so much rock in these areas; I can understand where the name Rockingham comes from (which is not too far away from the Bayers Lake area and likely has a similar topography).

Maybe the rocky landscape explains why the parking at the Panorama project is above ground (they might not want to disturb the pyritic shale - http://www.nrc-cnrc.gc.ca/eng/ibp/irc/cbd/building-digest-152.html ). It makes me wonder why people would want to live in such an inhospitable part of the country :D. Maybe it has some redeeming qualities?

This Bayers Lake area looks like a moonscape with vegetation (PS: It doesn't really look that bad:D). As a slight diversion, the movie "Moon" is a great movie for anyone who likes science fiction - http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1182345/

(source: http://www.sandyhines.com/shopping.htm)
http://www.sandyhines.com/bayersl3.jpg

I have never actually been to the Bayers Lake area. When I moved away to Ontario 30 years ago, I don't think that it existed. Does it look as bad as the Street View images? PS: I don't think that these suburban shopping areas look any better in Ontario, except most of the land in the GTA is flatter and doesn't have so much rock.

[Jstaleness]

It's pretty bad there Fenwick. On one side you have mostly big box and the theater. They are not at grade with the road and most of the road side is rocks or stone wall like the picture shows. The other side is better as it's mostly at grade and the parking area is smaller and the restaurants are roadside giving it better visual appeal.
Bottom line is that it is a horrible experience for a pedestrian. I can't imagine trying to walk from one end to the other with shopping bags. Putting in a sidewalk up Washmill would not encourage many to walk into the park. The Theater and new Best Buy would be the only thing worth the walk.

[fenwick16]

It is too bad that the hydro lines can't be buried and someone should plant some trees (would trees survive in that rock - if not then maybe some bushes). I think this could be an interesting area if some landscaping were done. It seems as though this area needs a landscaping genius to come along and do a major make-over. For anyone who has flown into Las Vegas (only once for me) then miracles can be done with barren land (this Halifax area at least has some vegetation - the city of Las Vegas looks like a city was built on an isolated part of Mars).

In reality the rocky, hilly land could be a plus if planned properly. Flat land can become boring. I have flown into Atlanta before and I think that the Halifax area has some similarities. The Atlanta metro area looks like a series of towns and cities built into a dense forest - it makes for a very interesting, scenic city.

How far outside the city does the rock extend? Is it as rocky on the Dartmouth side?

Although I think the Panorama is a decent condo/apartment(?) complex, I had hoped that a stadium would be built in that area (since people don't want it on the peninsula). It would really stand out from the Bi-Centennial highway. At one time this general area (Halifax Mainland Commons was considered for a stadium, I am not sure why that idea has been abandoned except that maybe most of the available land has been sold for residential developments). This is the view for the Panorama from the Bi-Centennial Highway - http://maps.google.ca/maps?hl=en&q=halifax,+nova+scotia&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Halifax,+Halifax+County,+Nova+Scotia&t=h&layer=c&cbll=44.647793,-63.667147&panoid=3952aiAdCO57-m8naFTh7g&cbp=11,97.19,,0,-3.39&ll=44.647956,-63.665557&spn=0.009434,0.066047&z=15

[DigitalNinja]

Dude, they never bury the wires in any new community around here. Really sucks.

[HRM]

All utilities at Ravenscraig are buried. Lots of original greenery left standing. Quite a departure for halifax.

You are obviously basing your statement on developments in Bedford where developers clearcut entire swaths of land then stick little charlie brown trees along streets that have no chance of growing because they are planted on top of crushed rock. Quite pathetic really.

[Keith P.]

Worst irony - Access Nova Scotia moving out there.

Whatever bureaucrat made the decision for Access NS to move there truly needs to lose their job. You can't walk there, you can barely get a bus to take you there, and even then, I have seen people get off the bus and have to sprint across 4-lanes of traffic without any crosswalks or sidewalks to get into the place. There's nothing like having to jump across an open gravel ditch to get to or from a govt office.

Bayers Lake is a disaster any way you look at it. Some genius put a Rona at the far end up by Access NS and I dunno how it stays in business as it has zero customers. You have a long stretch between that area and the more dense retail that is nothing but industrial facilities or scrub forest. And as has been said, in the retail area the entire east (?) side is built up on a rise well way from the road. I often see pedestrians dodging vehicles as they walk up the narrow roadway between the SS/NSLC and the Walmart since there is no walkway there at all. But that is consistent with the lack of sidewalks at street level there. Ridiculous.

[fenwick16]

Ravenscraig looks good - http://www.polycorp.ca/ravenscraig/ . Just burying the utilities makes a big difference. Having existing trees makes it even better. It is too bad that the the Bayers Lake Shopping area doesn't look more like this.

[worldlyhaligonian]

Mississauga, Nova Scotia? lol

[fenwick16]

Mississauga, Nova Scotia? lol

Mississauga is somewhat like Dartmouth times 10 (except Dartmouth has more lakes and trees). (no offense intended toward Mississaugians or Dartmouthians)

Mississauga has a very impressive skyline now and a population of over 700,000 - however, it will probably always be a bedroom community of Toronto.

[Jonovision]

360-unit apartment project planned for Clayton Park


By CHRIS LAMBIE Business Editor

A large new four-building rental project is being proposed for Clayton Park West.

Clayton Developments Ltd. , which now owns the 7.7-hectare plot of land on Washmill Lake Drive, is in the process of selling it to veteran developer Peter Giannoulis, who plans to build four 12-storey buildings that will hold a total of 360 two-bedroom rental units, said Peter Greenwood, the company’s vice-president of real estate sales.

“Peter’s a condo and apartment developer who we’ve done a lot of business with," Greenwood said Tuesday.

“He has a very interesting project planned, with four large buildings and . . . a clubhouse (in the centre) designed for the baby boomers who want to rent, as opposed to buying con­dos. . . . It will be a real marquee project, in my opinion."

Greenwood couldn’t put an exact price tag on the entire development.

“I’d be surprised if it’s less than a $50-million project."

The agreement to sell the property to Gian­noulis is slated to close in the next few weeks, Greenwood said. Chebucto community coun­cil has already approved the general lot layout and intent for the development, but Giannou­lis also has to present his four-building project this month to the Halifax watershed advisory board. Once a development agree­ment is negotiated with Halifax Regional Municipality, municipal staffers will have to prepare a report on the project to be pre­sented at community council.

“He has to get this approval (from the city) before he starts construction," said Greenwood, who wouldn’t say what Giannou­lis is paying for the land.

“Most of the multiple sites in Clayton Park and Bedford now are selling in the range of $20,000 per unit," he said. “In this part of Halifax, that would be the normal number."

But Greenwood wouldn’t say if Giannoulis, who couldn’t be reached for comment Tuesday, paid about $7 million for the property.

Clayton Developments hasn’t built its own projects for years, Greenwood said.

“The last project we built prob­ably was Park West Centre, the shopping centre out here at Lace­wood and Dunbrack. We used to build apartment buildings and condo buildings and single-family homes and office buildings and shopping centres. But we haven’t built for many years. We’re just doing the land development now."

The development in question is the largest site on a swathe of land that will eventually hold five projects, Greenwood said.

“There’s one block for 35 town­house units that’s being sold to another developer," he said.

“There’s another site that has 193 units, plus 15,000 square feet of retail."

Two other blocks will each hold another 100 units, Greenwood said.

“Right now, they’re all going to be rental," he said.

Other than the townhouses, “these are high-end, large con­crete apartment buildings."

Giannoulis, who has built and owns several large projects around the city, opened Cana­diana restaurant in 1995 on Lake­lands Boulevard at the edge of the Bayers Lake Business Park.

“He just finished building the new Comfort Hotel, which has just opened (next door to the restaurant)," Greenwood said.

(clambie@herald.ca)

[Jstaleness]

Great! Cause that Comfort Inn is so attractive. :yuck:

[fenwick16]

The total of all 5 blocks will be close to 800 dwellings (actually 788 total) - about 1600 people in a relatively small area. I see this as a step towards higher urban density. Although having more people on the peninsula is a good goal, these developments are close to Halifax and aren't contributing to urban sprawl. It will also contain several thousand square feet of retail.

360-unit apartment project planned for Clayton Park


By CHRIS LAMBIE Business Editor

A large new four-building rental project is being proposed for Clayton Park West.

Clayton Developments Ltd. , which now owns the 7.7-hectare plot of land on Washmill Lake Drive, is in the process of selling it to veteran developer Peter Giannoulis, who plans to build four 12-storey buildings that will hold a total of 360 two-bedroom rental units, said Peter Greenwood, the company’s vice-president of real estate sales.
.
.
.

The development in question is the largest site on a swathe of land that will eventually hold five projects, Greenwood said.

“There’s one block for 35 town­house units that’s being sold to another developer," he said.

“There’s another site that has 193 units, plus 15,000 square feet of retail."

Two other blocks will each hold another 100 units, Greenwood said.

“Right now, they’re all going to be rental," he said.

Other than the townhouses, “these are high-end, large con­crete apartment buildings."
.
.
.

[lawsond]

Great! Cause that Comfort Inn is so attractive.

Ha! My thoughts exactly. Looks like this developer just rattles around the suburbs coughing up ugly, slab boxes like fur balls.
But you know, suburbs are the same everywhere. Halifax just has unfortunate geology. The rocks just make it look more dreary and bleak.

[Keith P.]

Ha! My thoughts exactly. Looks like this developer just rattles around the suburbs coughing up ugly, slab boxes like fur balls.
But you know, suburbs are the same everywhere. Halifax just has unfortunate geology. The rocks just make it look more dreary and bleak.


This Giannoulis fellow does a good pan-fried haddock and a decent rice pudding. But as a developer... not so much.

[Waye Mason]

The pavilion in the centre reminds me of all those three tower 1970s apartment buildings that line Steeles in Toronto west of Yonge. All of those cul-de-sacs with 3 towers, a common pavilion, broken lights, unsafe underground connections, and abandoned retail in the common space, where no one could make it work. This design may have faux copper roofs, but what I see is a liptstick on the same kind of cheap failed pig of a design that people strive to avoid building in larger cities.

[halifaxboyns]

For a 7.7 ha site; with 360 units (if that number is correct in the article), the total density is still rather low for 'high density'. It would work out to be 46.75 units per ha. If Fenwick's number (of units) is correct (at 788), then the density is 102.34 units per ha. Still rather low for a 'high density' site considering the lowest density multi-tower site in Calgary is about 125 units/ha.

[fenwick16]

For a 7.7 ha site; with 360 units (if that number is correct in the article), the total density is still rather low for 'high density'. It would work out to be 46.75 units per ha. If Fenwick's number (of units) is correct (at 788), then the density is 102.34 units per ha. Still rather low for a 'high density' site considering the lowest density multi-tower site in Calgary is about 125 units/ha.

The 788 units is for the total of 5 different blocks (I am not sure what the total area is for all 5 blocks). The 360 units is going on one block (Block B) which according to the story is 7.7 hectares. The number that you worked out (46.75 units per hectare) is right according to my calculation. However, I don't think this is considered to be high density at 30 people per acre. As a comparison, I think that the maximum on the peninsula is 250 people per acre - page 85/257 - http://www.halifax.ca/planning/documents/Halifax_MPS.pdf, although Fenwick Towers has applied for a higher density.

These are the blocks (image, below) that the story refers to (Jonovision's post #37), and the maximum permissible density for each block (shown in the image legend):
(source: page 27/33 - http://www.halifax.ca/planning/documents/01304StageI_DA.pdf) . The Google Map link for this area is here (http://maps.google.ca/maps?hl=en&q=halifax,+ns&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Halifax,+Halifax+County,+Nova+Scotia&ll=44.650154,-63.665621&spn=0.005404,0.016512&t=h&z=17)
http://img33.imageshack.us/img33/4539/5blocks.jpg

There are only four blocks shown for development - A, B, C and D (a couple blocks are "not for development") whereas the story refers to 5 blocks (there is also one unlabeled block). Block B is the one that will have the Panorama 4 buildings with 360 units.

[halifaxboyns]

The number of people on the site will depend on the definition of habitable rooms and the design of the units. It's quite possible to have a 1 bedroom apt make up 3 people because the living room/dinning room are over 400 square metres (equally two habitable rooms) and then the bedroom. Thus 3 habitable rooms = 3 people.

This proposal is okay; it's typical suburban density. It could be better and could be a greater person/acre count - but considering the limitations of the site and how the end result ended up for the subdivision; its probably too late and I don't expect much from this beyond working within the DA constraints.

[fenwick16]

The legend in the image from the DA that I posted above specifies a maximum of 1,866 people in a total of 200 + 400 + 340 + 200 units = 1140 units (Block A + B + C + D). This would be on average 1866 people/1140 units = 1.64 people per unit. Although the development agreement for Block B specifies a maximum of 400 units, the Panorama will be only 360 units.

Regarding population densities, they are using the following calculation: (source: page 9 of 33 of the pdf file, section 3.4.1 - http://www.halifax.ca/planning/documents/01304StageI_DA.pdf ) - this is the wording from the development agreement below. (I would personally use "people" instead of "persons")

3.4.1 Development density on the Lands shall not exceed 1866 persons, based on a maximum of 30 persons per acre.

3.4.2 Density is to be calculated by the theoretical population density generated on the basis of:

a) 1 person for each bachelor unit
b) 2 persons per each one-bedroom apartment
c) 2.25 persons per each other apartment-style unit; and
d) 3.35 persons for each townhouse unit

3.4.3 For the purposes of calculating density, one bedroom plus den units shall be considered to be the same as one-bedroom units.

3.4.4 Individual Stage II Development Agreements may develop at higher than 30 persons per acre, provided the overall limit of 1866 persons as specified in Section 3.4.1 is not exceeded

3.4.5 Density tracking calculations shall be provided to the Municipality with each application for a Stage II Development Agreement and to the Development Officer with each application for a permit.



I agree, it would be better to have a higher density, although 30 people per acre is much higher than the population density on average throughout the old city boundaries of Halifax and Dartmouth (urban core).

I would like to see the Panorama redesigned so that it doesn't have two storey blank walls. It could have integrated townhouses at street level of the apartment buildings similar to the St. Joseph proposal in North Halifax. This would be much more appealing than the 2 storey blank walls. If 2 storey townhouse units were built at street level the apartment buildings could be reduced by a couple of storeys - it would make it more livable in my opinion.

[Dmajackson]

Not certain this is the last step but this could be approved by Chebucto CC on Tuesday.

CCC Agenda - September 13th, 2011 (http://www.halifax.ca/commcoun/ccc/110913CccAgenda.html)

[Wishblade]

Im not 100%, but Im pretty sure this article is talking about this development. Looks like its up for approval from community council today:

Developer awaits approval for Clayton Park apartments

Clayton Developments Ltd. is hoping to get a final stamp of approval for four apartment buildings in the Clayton Park West area of Halifax.

Chebucto Community Council meets Tuesday to discuss the development proposal, which would be 12-storeys each and have a maximum of 400 units or 800 people.

The plans include tennis courts, a park area and a two-storey clubhouse that could include a pool, a gym, a library or a ballroom.

link: http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/story/2011/09/13/ns-clayton-park-approval.html

[Dmajackson]

According to AllNovaScotia tonight this was APPROVED!

There is the standard fourteen day appeal period but considering the only possible naysayers live in apartment buildings nearby I can't see someone standing a chance of winning.

[Jstaleness]

I wonder if they will build all 4 buildings at once?

[-Harlington-]

Walked down the Washmill road today and it appears they have quite a bit of land cleared which i assumed was for this development, considering its approved and the road is now open i wonder if this could start construction soon

I also noticed a development agreement on a tree that mentioned 35 town house units, there was multiple road openings that look like they could be for driveways ect .

[Jstaleness]

Going by yesterday there was a large construction site where this development should be. Looks like this has started. No sign of crane pieces or foundation that I could see.

[macgregor]

This came up as an ad on the Chronicle Herald site:

http://www.cosmosproperties.ca/#!contact-us

[fenwick16]

This came up as an ad on the Chronicle Herald site:

http://www.cosmosproperties.ca/#!contact-us

It appears as though the name is now "The Grand Haven Heights" instead of the Panorama.

[-Harlington-]

That name sounds like it should be a retirement home in Florida or something, The Panorama is a better name

[macgregor]

That name sounds like it should be a retirement home in Florida or something, The Panorama is a better name

Maybe they will advertise the four "phases" just like Del Boca Vista.

[worldlyhaligonian]

Maybe they will advertise the four "phases" just like Del Boca Vista.

:previous: :cheers:

[worldlyhaligonian]

"cosmos properties", lol

[Jstaleness]

Nothing exciting yet but here is a very quick drive-by photo.

http://i663.photobucket.com/albums/uu360/jstaleness/IMG00058-20120301-1137.jpg

[kph06]

Photos by me from today, this is where the Gladstone North crane will be going up.

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7108/6997836795_72d2d01c63_b.jpg
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7036/6851711684_dd3c97eb6e_b.jpg
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7200/6997837147_d93488431f_b.jpg

[Jstaleness]

I assume that one or maybe 2 buildings will be built at a time given the one crane?

[kph06]

Site work is continuing, photos by me:

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7277/7078115199_7261c4b393_b.jpg
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7251/6932039368_82c2cdc77b_b.jpg

[Wishblade]

Does anybody know what kind of progress has been made on this? It's been quite a while since the last update.

[-Harlington-]

There is some construction going on in the far corner closer to the bayers lake side near the street on what looks like it would be for one of these buildings

and also what looks like the foundation for a townhouse closer to the main av side


EDIT: I think the building under construction is just a stand alone building and not part of this development but there is a significant area of land cleared for these buildings and crane pieces have been on site for awhile now.

[teddifax]

I was up there a few days ago and there is a lot of land being cleared over a fairly big area. Also, up near the 102 overpass over Washmill, there is a foundation - I don't know if this is commercial or a new residential building.

[kph06]

Still lots of site work, a large amount of land has now been cleared. Photos by me:

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8422/7816596448_2cfb4749e7_b.jpg
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8438/7816594728_a7550b1122_b.jpg

[Dmajackson]

The townhouses that are going up next door to this must coming along. They introduced the new street for them; Vitalia Court

[HI6HRI5E]

I was up there a few days ago and there is a lot of land being cleared over a fairly big area. Also, up near the 102 overpass over Washmill, there is a foundation - I don't know if this is commercial or a new residential building.

John i dont know his last name, but hes putting that building up he owes mostly all the ones in that area.

[HRM]

This project is now named Grand Haven Heights and has been marketed as such for several months now.

[someone123]

Are there cranes up for this now?

[kph06]

Are there cranes up for this now?

Not yet, the crane has been sitting on site for over a year now. It has been partially repainted, there looks like there is formwork materials back further in the site. They are starting site services now.

[someone123]

Interesting. I figured the crane would be up by now based on the photos in this thread!

[kph06]

Looks like form work has begun on the first floor. No activity with the crane yet.