[Dmajackson]

I think its time we have a thread to discuss Halifax's very shall we say "unique" street network. In here discussions can be about anything from Halifax's unconnected grid patterns to Dartmouth's confusing downtown to Bedford's cow paths (speed and width wise). I have visited many cities in North America and in no other place have I seen anything like North Park @ Cogswell, the Dartmouth side of the MacDonald, or the Windsor Street Exchange just to name a few.

To kick things off here are the plans for the Lacewood Connector to be constructed within five years;

http://www.halifax.ca/planning/documents/01254TrafficImpactStmt.pdf (see Figure 2).

and the Bing Birdseye View oriented to the PDF illustration;

http://www.bing.com/maps/?v=2&cp=rf8sn19pxkxg&lvl=18.32590014197477&dir=93.02433604199797&sty=b&form=LMLTCC

[fenwick16]

There certainly are some very interesting street layouts in the Halifax area, undoubtedly because of the topography.

I have noticed in the Greater Toronto Area (GTA) that newer residential areas have streets purposely laid out in unusual configurations to slow traffic down and to create more interesting, cozy neighbourhoods. Industrial areas tend to be more grid-like. For example, a newer neighbourhood in Mississauga - newer Mississauga (http://maps.google.ca/maps?hl=&q=mississauga&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Mississauga,+Peel+Regional+Municipality,+Ontario&gl=ca&ll=43.528607,-79.683301&spn=0.011668,0.033023&t=h&z=16) versus older Toronto (http://maps.google.ca/maps?hl=&q=mississauga&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Mississauga,+Peel+Regional+Municipality,+Ontario&gl=ca&ll=43.651851,-79.414845&spn=0.023288,0.066047&t=h&z=15)

Mississauga has fairly well laid out main through-fairs with winding, twisting side streets.

At the opposite end of the country, the high density areas of Vancouver seem to be grid-like but they also have suburban Coquitlim which is certainly not (I have been to Vancouver and Coquitlim a few times and I thought that it was a beautiful urban area) - Vancouver area (http://maps.google.ca/maps?hl=&q=vancouver&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Vancouver,+Greater+Vancouver+Regional+District,+British+Columbia&gl=ca&ll=49.291546,-122.812042&spn=0.167939,0.528374&t=h&z=12)

[beyeas]

I have visited many cities in North America and in no other place have I seen anything like North Park @ Cogswell, the Dartmouth side of the MacDonald, or the Windsor Street Exchange just to name a few.


Simms Corner in Saint John NB is similar if not worse, as there are not even stop lights at that corner, just mass chaos.

http://maps.google.ca/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=Simms+Corner,+Saint+John,+New+Brunswick&aq=3&sll=49.891235,-97.15369&sspn=36.888786,78.398438&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Simms+Corner,+St+John,+St+John+County,+New+Brunswick&ll=45.256643,-66.092516&spn=0.002447,0.004785&t=k&z=18&layer=c&cbll=45.256726,-66.092438&panoid=5NTvQQyFldKBrgP2GP8DBw&cbp=12,191.56,,0,0

[kwajo]

Don't hate on Simms corner, it's one of our best oddity attractions!

[terrynorthend]

Don't hate on Simms corner, it's one of our best oddity attractions!

Odd yes, but simply unsafe, especially during the high tourism season with confused out of town drivers rolling around.

[beyeas]

Odd yes, but simply unsafe, especially during the high tourism season with confused out of town drivers rolling around.

Confused, and holding their noses as they drive by the pulp mill. :haha:

[MonctonRad]

I hate Simm's Corner. That's the main reason why I hardly ever take the Reversing Falls Bridge. :yuck:

Wasn't there a plan out there to redesign this intersection?

BTW - this thread has been officially hijacked. Five out of the seven posts so far are about an arcane intersection in Saint John!!

[beyeas]

ok... well the segue back to Hali is that there is certainly a similarity between cities like SJ and Hfx in terms of the challenges of laying down roads on rocky hilly coastal areas that aren't large spaces. You end up with very little grid, and lots of wandering roads with weird intersections that take in all kinds of other wandering roads.

Quite different from when I lived in the southwest US, where the cities are all laid out as perfect grids aligned with the mountain range.

It is also a big challenge in cities like Hfx that had the core downtown roads designed pre-automobile, where as cities in the west tend to have more "modern" road layouts.

That doesn't excuse some of the crap intersections we have (which are often just poor planning), but certainly explains some of the oddities of our roadways.

[kwajo]

I hate Simm's Corner. That's the main reason why I hardly ever take the Reversing Falls Bridge. :yuck:

Wasn't there a plan out there to redesign this intersection?

BTW - this thread has been officially hijacked. Five out of the seven posts so far are about an arcane intersection in Saint John!!


Yeah there was a plan to replace it with a roundabout, but then another study determined that there wasn't enough physical space to put one in, so they have a new alternative using traffic lights I believe, but it's behind schedule in its implementation.

[Dmajackson]

As a full-time worker in Burnside I have spent a lot of time thinking of what can be done to improve the area. As a result here is a map of my ideas so far. Only changes are shown (areas kept the same aren't depicted). The map is mainly for the Windmill Road section;

Burnside Roads (http://maps.google.ca/maps/ms?msa=0&msid=216313966281071840285.0004a5c706aa2280764ef&hl=en&ie=UTF8&ll=44.69602,-63.601288&spn=0.001236,0.00327&t=h&z=19)

[Dmajackson]

Found a map showing the proposed widening of Joe Howe Drive from the 102 overpass to Scott Avenue. I'm not really against this since it is a choke point right now but I am glad to see the funds go more important projects for the time being;

Joe Howe Turning Lanes (http://halifax.ca/traffic/documents/JoeHoweturnlanes-PROJECTPLAN.pdf)

[Keith P.]

Found a map showing the proposed widening of Joe Howe Drive from the 102 overpass to Scott Avenue. I'm not really against this since it is a choke point right now but I am glad to see the funds go more important projects for the time being;

Joe Howe Turning Lanes (http://halifax.ca/traffic/documents/JoeHoweturnlanes-PROJECTPLAN.pdf)

This is badly needed and would bring a major improvement to a very badly-designed and overloaded section of Joe Howe for minimal money. Are you suggesting it has been shelved? If so, what is the rationale? his should be near the top of any list of improvement projects.

[Jstaleness]

This would be such a huge improvement. Hopefully the southbound inner lane at Joe Howe and Mumford can also become a turn/Thru lane. Needless lane changing occurs there.

[Jstaleness]

There was some work going on in that area this morning. Does anyone have info on whether or not it is the widening of Joe Howe?

[Dmajackson]

Found a map showing the proposed widening of Joe Howe Drive from the 102 overpass to Scott Avenue. I'm not really against this since it is a choke point right now but I am glad to see the funds go more important projects for the time being;

Joe Howe Turning Lanes (http://halifax.ca/traffic/documents/JoeHoweturnlanes-PROJECTPLAN.pdf)

Stakes are in the ground and work should start anytime on this improvement.

Maybe they'll finally tack out the damn rail tracks in the intersections! :hell:

[RyeJay]

Tourist traffic creating gridlock on Halifax streets


CTV Atlantic
Published Thursday, Jul. 19, 2012 6:49PM ADT

If you plan to visit downtown Halifax over the next few days, you should probably plan ahead.

Thousands of people are converging on the waterfront for the Tall Ships Festival, creating gridlock on downtown streets.

“You have to know what one-way street you want to go down and as you're going down, you have to watch for pedestrian traffic, you have to be careful of construction and you have to have eyes in the back of your head and everything,” says spectator Wanda Johnson.

Navigating through a maze of traffic has pushed people to weigh their options.

“I think I'm staying the night the whole weekend so I won't have to drive downtown,” says spectator Keith Johnson.

Along with the traffic congestion comes parking problems. Some spots will even be temporarily blocked off.

Link (http://atlantic.ctvnews.ca/tourist-traffic-creating-gridlock-on-halifax-streets-1.885760#)

[Keith P.]

Traffic is a nightmare the last few days. HRM allowing road construction downtown during all of this does not help matters. Unlike other years, Metro Transit is not running any special "Tall Ships" shuttles downtown either, which adds to the traffic woes. Even downtown Dartmouth is short of parking as people try parking there and taking the ferry - no dice.

WDC seems to be beating this tall ships horse to death. Having them here every couple of years really takes away the cachet. This year's crop of arrivals is not very impressive either. Seems pretty second-string although the stuff going on in support on the Waterfront is still drawing crowds. I'm steering clear.

[resetcbu1]

WDC seems to be beating this tall ships horse to death. Having them here every couple of years really takes away the cachet. This year's crop of arrivals is not very impressive either. Seems pretty second-string although the stuff going on in support on the Waterfront is still drawing crowds. I'm steering clear.

having been in Calgary for near a decade now I can understand,every year come Stampede I high tail'er out of here . loses it's luster after awhile.:shrug:

[halifaxboyns]

Having been away from Halifax for so long, I actually don't mind the fact tall ships would be every 3 years. I'm annoyed my work schedule didn't allow me to go this year. As for Stampede, I look at that and things like Tall Ships for the tourism and spin off in terms of economy (not just for the enjoyment). Stampede was huge this year...I wouldn't be upset if Halifax had an event like that every year. The spin offs would be great.

Keith does make a good point about the roads though. Poorly timed construction doesn't help and some friends were saying that MT hadn't really done a good job at advertising the fact that there was different services for Tall Ships. But Keith is right, there doesn't seem to be any 'special' services as far as their website is concerned.
Metro Transit Tall Ship Service (http://www.halifax.ca/metrotransit/SpecialEvents2008.html)

[haligonia]

Metro Transit isn't doing anything, but the DHBC is running a free shuttle: http://downtownhalifax.ca/index.php/news/big-blue-bus/

[eastcoastal]

Traffic is a nightmare the last few days. HRM allowing road construction downtown during all of this does not help matters. Unlike other years, Metro Transit is not running any special "Tall Ships" shuttles downtown either, which adds to the traffic woes. Even downtown Dartmouth is short of parking as people try parking there and taking the ferry - no dice.

WDC seems to be beating this tall ships horse to death. Having them here every couple of years really takes away the cachet. This year's crop of arrivals is not very impressive either. Seems pretty second-string although the stuff going on in support on the Waterfront is still drawing crowds. I'm steering clear.

I parked north of the Common on Thursday and walked down to the waterfront - easy-peasy. The ships are noticeably fewer and smaller than in the past, but there are movies and fireworks every night and Sugah is open late scooping ice cream. I'm not going to climb aboard any of the ships, but plan on checking out some of the food-type-stuff that is planned for the weekend, and I am looking forward to seeing the symphony play Tchaicovsky's 1812 Overture with live cannons and churchbells and fireworks tonight.

[Keith P.]

I parked north of the Common on Thursday and walked down to the waterfront - easy-peasy.

That's a long haul for someone with any kind of even minor disability, especially getting back up the hill. The shuttle they are running should make a much bigger circle and encompass this area rather than just concentrating on Barrington and Lower Water.

[scooby074]

That's a long haul for someone with any kind of even minor disability, especially getting back up the hill. The shuttle they are running should make a much bigger circle and encompass this area rather than just concentrating on Barrington and Lower Water.

Yes!! They should have ran shuttles to the further areas of the city. Up spring garden for one. Perhaps to the outskirts for parking.

I was fortunate and got a great spot in Dartmouth, and took the ferry over. Painless.

Thank god the ferries were running load and go! Even then they were stuffed.

[Dmajackson]

In Calgary there are some interesting road features that caught my attention. Ones in particular are bus gates and vehicle traps (https://maps.google.ca/maps?hl=en&ll=51.132292,-114.071526&spn=0.001177,0.00327&t=h&z=19&layer=c&cbll=51.132292,-114.071526&panoid=_x76QS5XW7C8Lkmaz7fPug&cbp=12,10,,0,2.58). We don't seem to have these on the East Coast so I was wondering what you guys think of them and if they should be installed in select locations around Halifax. I could only think of one spot;

Ashdale Avenue - Under the 102 it could stop cars avoiding Joe Howe. A gate could work now for the fire station on the street and if desired a trap could be installed if buses are rerouted to avoid the congestion.

The general rule of thumb is a vehicle trap results in minor car damage and tow truck fees, a gate if being watched results in a $170 fine and demerit points. Calgary Police don't have to do speeding tickets very often so these traps are their favourite stakeout spots.

I should point out while not necessarily legal bicycles can get through the vehicle traps. Some gates also have bike paths so only motorized private vehicles tend to get stuck. Emergency vehicles along with buses have remotes for the gates.

[someone123]

Maybe I'm missing something, but that doesn't make sense to me. Is the purpose of the trap that buses can get through it but cars can't? Why not just install a camera (like a red light camera) and give out fines and demerit points? It seems worse to have the trap, even for the buses, because occasionally you might have a car stuck in there, blocking the road. Even worse, if a cyclist or motorcycle speeds through there somebody could get injured.

[Dmajackson]

^Cameras could work as well. That's how speeding tickets are given out in Calgary. There's usually a camera sign to deter people and if that doesn't work the fine is in the mail the next day.

[Keith P.]

I don't get it. Vehicle traps? For what purpose? They cause damage? What's next, mining the road? Crazy.

I think the vehicles should organize themselves and get "traffic planner traps" in place somewhere.

[fenwick16]

Traffic traps (pits) seem to be extreme in nature. Also, there is a simpler system; a row of "traffic spikes" - http://www.entryparkingposts.com/. Cars travelling in the correct direction just depress the spikes. Cars travelling in the opposite direction will have their tires deflated.

I see traffic spikes very often at United States' car rental facilities. Luckily they aren't common in Canada. I always get an uneasy feeling when I see them. It makes such facilities seem like a dangerous place to be.

[fenwick16]

Stakes are in the ground and work should start anytime on this improvement.

Maybe they'll finally tack out the damn rail tracks in the intersections! :hell:

Regarding Dmajackson's post (about the Joseph Howe turning lanes) from a couple of months ago, how is this proceeding - http://halifax.ca/traffic/documents/JoeHoweturnlanes-PROJECTPLAN.pdf ?

[Keith P.]

Regarding Dmajackson's post (about the Joseph Howe turning lanes) from a couple of months ago, how is this proceeding - http://halifax.ca/traffic/documents/JoeHoweturnlanes-PROJECTPLAN.pdf ?

As per usual, it got off to a fast start. Now it seems to have ground to a halt. Traffic has been atrocious there during the project and HRM seems totally unconcerned with getting it finished. Plus I hear that are going to install nat gas lines on Joe Howe starting this week so god knows how bad things will be when that happens as well.

[scooby074]

I like the idea of "bus only" lanes and street exits, however the "Bus traps" mentioned would hardly work now, what with all the large vehicles like SUV's and pickups running around.

Most of them have enough ground clearance and/or wide enough track to go right through the trap.

I like automatic bollards though. Watch this to see them in action. Try not to laugh i know I did..:D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i_Cw0QJU8ro

[Dmajackson]

Friday, Nov. 9, 2012 (Halifax, NS) – On Saturday, Nov. 10 and Monday, Nov. 12, Black and McDonald and associated sub-contractors will install sections of underground electrical conduits across Windmill Road between Wright Avenue and Dawn Drive. This work is required to support the future installation of a traffic control intersection.

-----------------

I'm not surprised with this project since Windmill Road is the busiest artery in Halifax. There will also be stoplights at Ralston Avenue in the near future (for Harbour Isle).

The only thing that worries me is bus priority. Hopefully HRM Traffic has planned accordingly and will be installing priority lights and bus queue jumps particularly in the inbound lanes (outbound just needs signage). The also need to install "red light" cameras at all intersections along this stretch. Its very common for cars to just fly through the bus lane at Wright Avenue outbound.

I also hope they have solid plans for a centre boulevard near the stoplights. Driving down the centre-turn lane is a common way to skip the lineups. Having boulevards near the stoplights should reduce this event and make the road a lot safer (no head-on accidents near congestion points).

[Dmajackson]

No quick fix for rotary-area traffic
January 10, 2013 - 6:24pm BY LAURA FRASER CITY HALL REPORTER

The fuming drivers sitting in fuming cars along the Herring Cove Road will likely grow in number as condominiums continue to sprout up around the Armdale Rotary.

Halifax Regional Municipality has two ideas to combat the congestion — widening Herring Cove Road and the possibility of a fast ferry in Purcells Cove.

The change to the rotary is at least three years from realization. And the ferry service from Purcells Cove warrants a mention in the regional plan with Bedford but has not moved past that in more than five years.

...

(lfraser@herald.ca)

Read More: thechronicleherald.ca (http://thechronicleherald.ca/metro/410234-no-quick-fix-for-rotary-area-traffic?utm_source=website&utm_medium=mobi&utm_campaign=full-site)

[fenwick16]

[I]No quick fix for rotary-area traffic
January 10, 2013 - 6:24pm BY LAURA FRASER CITY HALL REPORTER



(lfraser@herald.ca)

Read More: thechronicleherald.ca (http://thechronicleherald.ca/metro/410234-no-quick-fix-for-rotary-area-traffic?utm_source=website&utm_medium=mobi&utm_campaign=full-site)

It seems as though a Northwest Arm bridge cannot even be mentioned.

[JET]

It seems as though a Northwest Arm bridge cannot even be mentioned.

is there a place that would go? Probably would be a NIMBY revolt.

[OldDartmouthMark]

is there a place that would go? Probably would be a NIMBY revolt.

Here? :D

http://i48.tinypic.com/103tlhh.jpg

Source: http://www.halifax.ca/archives/HarbourviewDriveProposal1963.html

[someone123]

I think there's a huge disconnect between the way traffic problems are viewed and tackled in Halifax and how bad they actually are. The traffic problems are really bad. Bad enough that expropriating a few houses is not actually a big deal if it makes a significant difference.

The Purcell's Cove ferry sounds like a non-starter to me, since council has spent a decade or more debating a similar solution for Bedford. A bridge is a simpler solution that most other cities would have already had by now; it could be attractive and it could be for buses, bikes, and pedestrians, not just cars. It could also tie in with a southern harbour crossing. It would be environmentally friendly because it would reduce travel distances and congestion. The tired argument about generating sprawl doesn't apply here because this is an already congested inner-city area, and Halifax's bad traffic has already led to the creation of lots of sprawl north of the city. If no more transportation capacity is added to the core, more and more development will simply move out to areas along the highways.

HRM should also be looking at some sort of rapid transit for the peninsula and inner suburban areas. It would be great to see some sort of small LRT system or streetcar-like services with a mix of dedicated ROWs and at-grade track. Service quality and capacity would be much higher than buses, and development spinoffs would be much higher.

[Hali87]

The Purcell's Cove ferry sounds like a non-starter to me, since council has spent a decade or more debating a similar solution for Bedford.

It would only make sense if there was also a plan for ambitious development in the immediate vicinity of Purcell's Cove, or for the creation of a new corridor linking Purcell's Cove directly to Spryfield, with ambitious development along this corridor. According to the regional plan, there are no such plans envisioned for the next 15+ years. Building a ferry terminal in Purcell's Cove without any of these things would make no sense, period. It would actually be one of the least useful points on the entire harbour for a ferry terminal. A transit-focused bridge would make a lot more sense at this point. I honestly can't understand why there is no bridge over the Arm. If traffic is a concern then don't allow cars to use it during peak hours. Simple. Another one for the WTF? thread I guess.

[bluenoser]

It's funny/sad that North West Arm Drive never even made it close to its namesake, although there is still a lot of land available to complete it without a ridiculous amount of expropriation. On the peninsula side, there is still a sizeable wooded area at the (abrupt) South end of Robie which could become the landing for the bridge and an interchange.

I'm grateful the downtown portion of 'Harbour Drive' was never completed although I've always wondered why, after all the work that went into the Cogswell Interchange, Barrington St. in the North was not turned into a decent highway, or at least straightened out a bit with four lanes - maybe even some trees and a median? It makes for a pretty unceremonious entrance to the peninsula after coming across the McKay Bridge.

[halifaxboyns]

One thing that I often wondered about the street setup (after Harbour Drive) was why the City didn't really think about the future and plan for it? They did with Bayers Road (for the most part) which is why most of the buildings are set so far back up to HSC. But there seems to have been a total lack of forethought elsewhere. I suspect that it was from what I call 'small town syndrome'. Many of the smaller towns/cities in Alberta have suffered it (specially Fort Mac). They figure it will take so long to grow into a bigger city, they don't need to think about it...and don't. So then when growth hits, it makes things so problematic.

Calgary (because it has cycles of peaks and valleys) has been used to this and has had some forethought and created a 'road bylaw table'. Along major roads, where transportation has identified the need to widen the road, there is an additional bylaw setback. That way, when a redevelopment happens, the additional space required for widening is taken. So the building would have to be setback the minimum setback between the 'road widening portion' (since that would be the new property line). But that only works when you have a lot of redevelopment - it might work in Halifax over the next few years but yet again only as redevelopment happens.

That other solution is expropriation. That has been used, but it politically a nightmare. Of course, it would've helped that with the regional plan (when it was approved) a transportation plan would've been approved with it, which surprised me. I blame that more on transportation than anyone else...plus it was the first time HRM did a regional plan, so it wasn't going to be perfect.

[someone123]

I think expropriation makes sense in cases where you have only a few properties holding up a public project that would benefit a large number of people. It has a bad name from past decades when it would be used to clear out entire neighbourhoods, but that is an extreme case. It might even be good to pay bonus money to displaced people, or give them extra time to find them new housing (or the city could even waive the fees on a new house or something). I doubt many people would be that upset about their house being expropriated if they received a similar one plus, say, $50,000. From the city's perspective, that cost would not be very significant for a major road project requiring some limited expropriations.

On top of the "small town syndrome", transportation planning in Halifax is also politicized to the point where it's driven by special interests rather than actual need. The city needs a separate transportation authority to handle bridges, roads, and transit based on cost-benefit.

[Keith P.]

It's funny/sad that North West Arm Drive never even made it close to its namesake, although there is still a lot of land available to complete it without a ridiculous amount of expropriation. On the peninsula side, there is still a sizeable wooded area at the (abrupt) South end of Robie which could become the landing for the bridge and an interchange.

Well, the Ecology Action Center and their operatives in the media and at City Hall have effectively made it nearly impossible to come out in favor of any improvement to the road network here. Look at the foolishness regarding fixing Bayers Road, a good portion of this was actually planned for way back in the 1940s. Yet we are still stuck witht he 1940 street configuration.

I'm grateful the downtown portion of 'Harbour Drive' was never completed although I've always wondered why, after all the work that went into the Cogswell Interchange, Barrington St. in the North was not turned into a decent highway, or at least straightened out a bit with four lanes - maybe even some trees and a median? It makes for a pretty unceremonious entrance to the peninsula after coming across the McKay Bridge.

Not much different than the entrance from the MacDonald, which dumps you onto North St, a totally unsuitable main street that has absolutely no architectural merit attached to any of the buildings. I'm unsure which entrance to the peninsula is more unsuitable.

[Hali87]

Calgary (because it has cycles of peaks and valleys) has been used to this and has had some forethought and created a 'road bylaw table'. Along major roads, where transportation has identified the need to widen the road, there is an additional bylaw setback. That way, when a redevelopment happens, the additional space required for widening is taken. So the building would have to be setback the minimum setback between the 'road widening portion' (since that would be the new property line). But that only works when you have a lot of redevelopment - it might work in Halifax over the next few years but yet again only as redevelopment happens.

The one downside to this is that in the meantime there ends up being a lot of empty space. This is particularly noticeable in Edmonton, where I assume they take a similar approach. Everything there (roads in particular) seems wide to the point of total redundancy, and there is a lot of conspicuously unused land. I guess ultimately it's probably better than having to deal with expropriating land though.

[Hali87]

I doubt many people would be that upset about their house being expropriated if they received a similar one plus, say, $50,000. From the city's perspective, that cost would not be very significant for a major road project requiring some limited expropriations.

This sounds completely right, with the possible exception of the few who would feel pressured to "not sell out".

[Hali87]

Not much different than the entrance from the MacDonald, which dumps you onto North St, a totally unsuitable main street that has absolutely no architectural merit attached to any of the buildings. I'm unsure which entrance to the peninsula is more unsuitable.

Subjective I guess. I actually really like coming off the MacDonald onto North Street. There might not be any stand-alone impressive buildings, but it's a cool streetscape.

[Drybrain]

Not much different than the entrance from the MacDonald, which dumps you onto North St, a totally unsuitable main street that has absolutely no architectural merit attached to any of the buildings. I'm unsure which entrance to the peninsula is more unsuitable.

It's not really a main street, just a wide neighbourhood road and a minor traffic thoroughfare.

And while the overall aspect of the street is a bit run-down, some of the houses are quite lovely (https://maps.google.ca/maps?q=north+street+halifax&hl=en&ll=44.656932,-63.591657&spn=0.0087,0.046091&safe=off&hnear=North+St,+Halifax,+Nova+Scotia&gl=ca&t=h&z=15&layer=c&cbll=44.656938,-63.591655&panoid=kyw8nzwojkyMVIDfGFNU-Q&cbp=11,99.54,,0,-2.6), actually.

But I've learned not to argue architectural aesthetics with you, so I'll just leave it alone.

[someone123]

Looks like a lot of properties around there have been fixed up lately. It used to be a really dumpy area. Some of the houses a bit farther north have always been well-kept and there are at least 3 new medium-sized buildings in the works for that stretch of Gottingen (North End Pub, Bilby Street, and St. Joseph's). Should be a great spot in a few years. It would be even better if it were tied in with the southern part of Gottingen with the Housing Trust buildings and Gottingen Terrace (or whatever might be built there).

[Keith P.]

Looks like a lot of properties around there have been fixed up lately. It used to be a really dumpy area. Some of the houses a bit farther north have always been well-kept and there are at least 3 new medium-sized buildings in the works for that stretch of Gottingen (North End Pub, Bilby Street, and St. Joseph's). Should be a great spot in a few years. It would be even better if it were tied in with the southern part of Gottingen with the Housing Trust buildings and Gottingen Terrace (or whatever might be built there).

I'm not referring to that section of Gottingen. I'm talking about North St., such as that awful block between Agricola and Robie.