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View Full Version : NIMBY vs US and Alternate Ottawa in 2050



Ponyboy Curtis
Jun 19, 2011, 11:33 PM
Hello all, first time poster here. Great forum, you guys are all dedicated and well-informed contributors.

I have always been fascinated by construction projects, big or small. I remember going on bike rides around the city as a kid checking up on various developments (the 90's was pretty dead though). As much as I enjoy a project or tower being completed and topped off, I think my favorite phase of construction is when the concrete structure is done and 3/4 of the cladding/windows are complete.

It's just not quite as interesting upon completion.

I have worked the last 10 years doing private residential renovations, so whenever I see a crane go up it's good news. I don't work for builders, but people moving means older bathrooms/kitchens need remodeling. So i guess you could say I have personal and professional interest in a healthy real-estate market.

I think Ottawa is a great city to live and work in. A good place to raise a family, I find there is a strong sense of community and civic pride. Crime is virtually non-existent for a group of 1 million people living together. It's the cleanest city I have seen. It has a very well-balanced economy and reasonable cost of living. The amount of disposable income is apparent when I am contacted to perform work for a client. The traffic is good all around, problems usually stem from a bottleneck/bad design or roadwork.

Years of weak leadership in city council however have really put us behind the 8-ball. All of us on this forum would like to see sustainable, high-density growth within the Greenbelt. However, I don't believe we have all the ingredients in place to start a building boom like we or the developers want.

First and foremost is the lack of a clear and conscise long term plan regarding LRT and BRT transit. Our councilors are all intelligent, honest, hard-working people trying to make this the best city they can.

They are not however, civil engineers or tunnel builders or bus drivers or
visionaries. This is why we hire consultants and perform numerous EA's and open houses with the public. It is a huge under-taking and I won't even speculate on a proper route/budget/capacity. The council seems to be scared to make a proper move, everyone wants to get re-elected, not ruffle any feathers etc. I get the idea. But without a plan, railway tracks and ROW corridors are being ripped up and filled in. Valuable, central pockets of land are being filled in and underdeveloped.

I get why NIMBYS want low-rises... we don't have the infrastructure to support what we on this forum would like to see. There are extensive water-main and sewer replacements going on in key areas downtown. Many inner-city schools are closed, a shift in population back into the core will have many consequences and I'm not sure if city hall gets the full scope.

It seems like right now; Neighborhood associations, Council, and the developers are all pulling in different directions. They are all selfish and self serving to a certain extent. The SFH homeowner (eg ottawa glebe) wants to maintain the sense of slower paced and quiet, tree lined streets that you can't put a price on.

The developers are here to make money, and they know how to make money, that's for sure, they can afford to buy a lot for 20 million and eat the cost of development hassle for 5 years not turning profit on that 20 million.

The council has to play a see saw battle between the two. They need a prosperous city obviously, but what good is that when your constituents
chase you out the door. Keep in mind, 1 active member of the community, in theory can de-rail a multi-million dollar project backed by a group of highly experienced executives.

I think the developer has to take some blame. hmmm... sorry but a 1 story podium with a shoppers drug mart is not the street presence that I am looking for. e.g CP1, after only 3? years, that god awful stucco finish is already weathered poorly. First of all, they should have been forced to use some type of natural stone for the podium, for $450 a sq/ft im pretty sure they can afford it.

No wonder people are opposed to development, the city is trading a very finite resource (downtown land) getting a few bucks in fees, meanwhile private companies are taking the money back home. Tax adjustments/burying wires etc. aside they are still adding a burden on the infrastructure, heavy trucks, noise, dust. Problems tend to compound each other, where do you think all the black streaks on CP1 came from?... diesel particle emissions from the ungodly amount of heavy vehicle traffic that has no business being in that area.

Claridge Plaza is an upgrade from what was there for sure, and I'm happy its there, but it could have been a lot nicer with a mandate from the city regarding the way the ground level was completed.

The NIMBYS need to take some blame also, they seem to think that if the height restriction is 5 floors, that is some sort of hard line. I think, there is a time and place for everything. I have to agree with some of the NIMBYS from time to time.

To build, build, build is equally short-sighted. Let's use some examples, Ottawa's centre-town, bound by let's say Lisgar on the north and QW on the south. Clearly from Bronson to Kent is not going to see development. I think the developers realize that and respect that.

Now let's consider Old Ottawa South, I think last year there was a proposal to rebuild the public library and add a 13 story tower on top. STOP, what are you thinking builders? First of all, I find that offensive. I don't care if it's Charlesfort building a masterpiece and giving the units away to the needy. It does not belong there plain and simple, scenic views be damned.

I'm amazed that they would attempt this, even if it did get scaled back to 6 stories, I just don't see the point. Land is not that scarce, and its not like they were going to build over a vacant lot anyways. They are trying to trick us by bribing us with a library we already had. It's a better effort than a
Shoppers but your not going to fool the NIMBYS that easily.

This is where the NIMBYS need to give back a little, let's say they sit down at the table and agree it was a bad idea all around.

Now, Charlesfort pulls out a new proposal a little farther north. This time it's somewhere in the square of Lisgar/QW Kent/Elgin. For profitability and long term sustainability in the city I think we can all agree that towers should be at LEAST 10 stories and for our sake lets say 15. Rather than fighting the height, I mean... how easy is that?

Get creative with your time. Do not let them get away poor street presence, filling out the entire lot, and sticking a freaking Harvey's in the bottom as their gift to us faithful citizens. Let them build tall, so they can explore creative and diverse designs, with setbacks and terraces.

With a taller height concession, they NIMBYS now have bargaining power to demand a decent sidewalk, perhaps with planters, maybe a recessed entrance way opening up the street.

Do not let them put all those exhaust vents on the street, ALA CP 1 and 2. It's a good thing the men's shelter makes for bad NIMBYS or they never would have gotten away with that.

Rather than wasting so much time and resources for what ends up being lower than ideal density and even cheaper cladding/design elements, they can be more constructive and force the builders to a higher standard.

Now for the City, the least enviable position i'm sure. Well, like I said before, here in Ottawa they pretty much do it to themselves. We still have no solid transit connections with Gatineau... 250,000 people! Jesus. All those stanky, noisy STO buses only go to Rideau because I'm pretty sure that's a good chunk of the ridership. We still don't have a bridge connection connecting the 50/417.

I realize the massive amount of work involved but it's a no brainer. Monte-Paiement to Aviation. I think I saw another reasonable study that would link up at 417/Montreal rd. It's besides the point. The point is, IT WONT BUILD ITSELF.

I'm convinced that the 2 cities have zero lines of communication, as evidenced by King Edward. A 6 lane boulevard that switches to a 30 kmh hairpin curve and then switches back to a massive highway bridge. Not that we want a tonne of traffic flow from there, but that curve pretty much dictates your road volume, plus it's not very safe.

I thought they were going to smooth out that curve when they rebuilt King Eddy, then I realized its there to slow the vehicles down once they come over from Quebec.

These issues goes way back. A long line of weak kneed politicians with no grand vision. We are still waiting for a hard-nose bastard who doesn't care if some NIMBYS 300 meters away from the Airport parkway can't take it.

Metaphorically speaking, the blood of numerous pedestrians is on their hands. NCC has no choice but to make an amendment and allow the heavy vehicles access to the highway. The houses are all set back a reasonable? distance from the road. Of course the dumb bastards running the show for
us just cut down all the trees and made yet another jogging path alongside it. Anyways...

Without a gauranteed and finalized Transit plan, The city is not giving anyone a leg to stand on. The NIMBYS can push for small scale development because I don't think we are ready downtown to add 25,000? residents in the span of 10? years(arguments sake)

If we had a cohesive and forward moving council they would be doing a better job of keeping pace with what I think is a moderate pace of expansion. I dont see why Claridge is already building in Lebreton, that ugly contraption that it is. Would it not make sense to go forward with your transit line first? or at least have your lines mapped out or built in unison?

Think about Scarborough town-square, What a shit box little transfer station that is. But I will tell you that the dozens of towers around it weren't there when they built it.

If you build it, they will come.

For my argument, I think the exact path of the line is irrelevant, your going to piss some people off... your going to possibly expropriate some land. You might even have to tear up that line of trees on Byron Ave. (oh no! not a line of trees!) I understand how the residents there value how Byron and Richmond are separated. Do they realize that once that train line goes in, and they keep building those higher end condos on Richmond, their rather
pedestrian 40 year old house will probably be worth a small fortune in 10? years.

SUck IT UP and when Charlesfort comes knocking in 2020 with a 1.5 million dollar check, you can take your healthy pay out which you didn't lift a finger for. Personal sufferings aside, of course. Yes I'm afraid someone may be inconvenienced by the largest civil engineering project to ever take place in this city.

-proceeding to a scenario now-

Ok, so we finally got Phase 1 of our LRT, it goes from Lincoln Fields to Hurdman. We have 6 stations in the downtown core from Lebreton to Campus. Lets say our first stop on the west side is on the block with Tech School. Or even the next block over with the ALterna. It doesnt matter where, as long as we dont defy common sense.

So we are poised to construct the first 40 story tower in the city now that we have some of the sewers upgraded, the tunnel was completed ahead of schedule, all the stations are to be of unique and integrated design.

Charlesfort(i like charlesfort) draws up a plan for a 55 story tower which of course is bounced back and forth. The NIMBYS are running out of arguments, Downtown is a little nicer now, having pushed each other for common good in the last 10 years, there are nicer amenities in the nearby buildings, shoppers drug marts galore, there are only cross town buses in the core now, the major bus exchanges moved out of the core to Lebreton and Hurdman. High frequency trains and shared fair/smart cards with a shared tunnel make for a pleasant and seamless transfer. You can enjoy a cigarette outside the office on Slater, without choking on diesel fumes.

We have reached a milestone for Ottawa... sustainable growth!

Ok so back to the new tallest. The NIMBYS won't give up, its too tall. After much ado about nothing... Charlsefort has already spent a few million trying to push this thing, Ottawa city council steps in. A competent man, with brass balls, who made the LRT happen, the same man who got those damn trucks off Rideau, we call him Jim-Bob Jones.

Jim-bob offers a compromise, he feels Ottawa is ready to start pushing to the sky. A good chunk of the once available surface lots and tenements have been developed. Limited of course by the evil NIMBYS, to modest 20ish floors north of Lisgar and 10-15 in center-town. There is strong support from the council for this large project, but we must acquiesce the NIMBY first...

Since we still haven't built that Main Library yet, or the Theatre ( I never said Jim-bob was a cultured man) A new plan is drawn up called "The Escarpment" combining the underground station, Main Library and Theatre making up a 5 story podium, constructed of rare imported stone, mesmerizing in its appearance. Twin towers sit atop the podium with the western tower topping out at 41 floors and the eastern tower at 47. Terraces and skygardens are prevalent with an unusual offset rise in the tower, with several small setbacks.

A new type of privacy glass is patented by Charlsefort, always maintaining untinted clear viewing from inside while having the ability to adjust its outer shade to a range of colors. Controlled in a central location it will gentle cycle accenting colors though the course of the day. It's main feature however, it's also able to block or let in heat from the sun with a near 99 percent efficiency, without tinting the inside view. It is possible to heat the unit on a
sunny day in the winter with no energy consumption other than the glass control systems.

The patent on the glass returned more money in a few years than their real-estate portfolio was worth. This began a concerted effort to develop and refine LEED Gold methods and materials. 'The Escarpment' is by far the most expensive single building ever constructed in the city, winning international awards for its design and innovation. Ottawa/Gatineau has 2 million people now and people are looking at a new way of urban life here.

20 years go by.... the downtown / center-town borders as discussed earlier, fill up, occasionally the land value exceeds the value of an older lowrise building and it gets replaced. With the Core now starting to reach capacity, builders respectfully stay away from old Ottawa south and the neighborhood bound by Bronson and Kent remains as is, it is now a heritage district.

Old man Jim-bob runs a tight ship and personally heads down to Queens park to secure hundreds of millions of dollars Federal/Provincial grants for the LRT expansion. A steady stream of skilled talent from other cities help push forward with high-paying infrastructure jobs. Double-tracking the line proceeds at a record pace with grading improvments and station upgrades.

The now world class train system is the preferred method of travel for many.

Land values along the train line are steadily increasing, Preston area is filled in nicely with lots of mixed use towers. Geological survey buildings are long gone and decontaminated at great cost. The towers closest to Dow's lake are modest and tasteful, with height restrictions easing up heading towards Bayview. Carling gets a massive make over from Bronson to the Queensway. LRT phase 2 runs from Bayview down Carling to Fisher to Barhaven.

City of Ottawa coffers are stuffed with cash from building permits and smart and timely sales of land.

The Civic Hospital Campus is finally demolished and an experimental mini community is built, using Charlsefort's full arsenal of build quality and new building materials. Movie theaters, grocery stores, 17 Shoppers drug marts. The centrally located LRT station on site can get you to outer urban areas in 10 minutes with the express, quickly showing the advantages smart design and investment. Spacious tunnels and covered walkways link the buildings and station making it pleasant in all weather.

Charlesfort also took a philanthropic step forward with variable priced affordable housing, continuing to build a strong community and be a model company with a realistic profit margin. High rise towers effortlessly integrate with smaller buildings and common areas. It is of course, nothing but highest quality housing and tenants were selected by raffle with no regard to their financial status, giving back to the community and shaping the spirit of Ottawa.

Charlesfort is the top builder now, recruiting niche tradesmen from all over the world. The NIMBYS have no choice but to watch in awe as Charlesfort creates a village that wins them international accolades for their efforts.

There is now a new era of understanding with builders, the City and the neighborhood associations. The NCC is letting parcels of land go around the city at a controlled rate, outwardly showing preference to Charlsefort group. Market remains stable with a wide range of prices inside and outside of the greenbelt.

Kanata, Orleans and Barrhaven's SFH construction dies a slow but steady death. Large 3000 square foot homes fall out of favor with rising energy costs. Decades of poorly built track houses, pushed up to the property line become a liability. Many people do not bother to retrofit these houses to new standards, given the high cost.

Equally significant is a new found social responsibility, the track houses
are seen as wasteful, boring and uninspiring. SFH contruction falls into a small high end market.

With a better life quality, the apparent need for more, more, more becomes secondary. Abandoned houses are dismantled and recycled, efforts are made to relocate willing families closer to the former suburb core areas. The suburbs as we once knew them are diminished. The suburb core areas with good connections to transit remain strong and vibrant, and many people still appreciate the life outside of Ottawa Center.

40 years later, the habit-ed footprint of the City of Ottawa/Gatineau is only slightly larger.

All the LRT stations in the city are surrounded by stylish and world class mixed-use towers, with green roofs and day to day self sustainment. Its a brave new world. Gas is $85.75 a litre, the gas automobile is a thing of the past.

The nodes are able to provide day to day shopping needs, moderate amounts of diverse employment, and a healthy, spacious environment to raise a family.The need to go across town is often limited to social and leisure activities.

The builders and the city are able to keep the cost of living within reach of many. A multi-bedroom condo large enough to raise 2 children comfortably is now desirable. The quality of life has improved dramatically by mid-21st century. The nuclear family unit is strong, with divorce rates at all time lows. Elderly care centers are normal around a node for those needing assisted living, new construction methods and mentalities allow for shared or semi private suites letting extended family live together while still having the
option of a semi-private life. Obesity and cancer rates begin to decline as personal health and fitness becomes routine.

The days of the shadowy, narrow, cramped old blocks of the 1960's and 1970's give way to highly efficient and self-sustainable structures. Daycares, health clinics, physical activities of all kinds, there is always someone to play tennis or basketball with and the overall quality of life improves at a never before seen rate. Carbon footprint is estimated to be 1/7 what it was 50 years ago for an average family living comfortably in a spacious suite.

Ottawa only approves LEED Platinum buildings, energy savings are instantly realized. Many of Ottawa's existing neighborhoods remain, rising energy costs spawn a whole new line of products and methods to retrofit existing single family houses. NCC methodically and logically continues to parcel off inner city and eventually greenbelt land along travel corridors.

The NIMBY is never to far away and builders continue to turn out ever more superior products.

A growing manufacturing base on the eastern fringe of Orleans is serviced by trains and shuttle buses moving 100's of skilled workers quickly and easily, as if it was an assembly line itself. Ditto for the once again world class Tech Park in Kanata and areas. The public sector remains strong, although efficiency and ability to work from home reduces the financial sway and dependence we once experienced as a government town. The service sector is now the largest employer.

With less pressure for development in the outlying areas, new industries appear. There is free space to grow and produce Biofuels. Farming enjoys a Renaissance, not seen before. Government subsidies make it lucrative and with highly efficient machinery helping out, many younger couples and families not keen on living in tower blocks, without the money/desire for a SFH, spawn a whole new generation of farmers.

Ottawa is almost a self-sustained city now. It can feed itself and fuel itself, all while retaining a lesser carbon footprint than the 20 century. Ottawa is considered a Beta + world city despite its smaller population and lack of a CFL football team (still haven't figured out landsdowne) A leader in technology and innovation, attracting brilliant minds from all over the world, our universities and institutions quickly scale the ranks over larger and better-funded institutions. And we all lived happily ever after.

Jim-Bob the mayor is bronzed and placed atop the Peace Tower, allowing for 1 extra floor to be added to all the buildings downtown without pissing anyone off.

So it all starts with a little self sustainability, which starts at the drawing board, which starts in a visionary strong leader like Jim-Bob, to make sure everyone is pulling the rope in the same direction.

SENS ROOKIE
Jun 21, 2011, 2:37 AM
ok but you never talk about the arena of the Ottawa Senators

O-Town Hockey
Jun 22, 2011, 12:28 AM
Wow, very interesting post. Obviously, we won't see all this stuff come to fruition but it is quite clear that we need to start seeing large-scale visionary city-building projects get off the ground or we risk falling even more behind the rest of the world. This starts with LRT and intensification projects such as Lebreton and Lansdowne. If these are done right it will open doors for many more in the future.