[urbanlife]

Okay, I am curious what forumers think of this. My girlfriend and I are moving to NYC from Portland, OR this coming June roughly and we have been looking for areas within Brooklyn. Our last trip there we took a walk through all the areas we want to live in and found that the northwestern part of Crown Heights was the best for us, which really surprised us because of the image the neighborhood has.

We walked down Classon and noticed a number of great buildings, the one that has stood out the most during the apartment searching has been the old Jewish Hospital buildings. I was curious if anyone here had any experience with those buildings? or that portion of Crown Heights?

Also, I am curious what I should know about moving to NYC, obviously we will be starting new jobs there and should have more than enough to cover first, last, and deposit for a one bedroom size apartment in the 1200-1600 range. Just curious if there was any added info anyone can help with.

The only real limitation we have is the fact that we have a small dog coming with us, which is non-negotiable.


We have plenty of friends there and have gotten plenty of different advice from them, but any information does help and I always enjoy hearing different interpretations of neighborhoods in NYC, which Crown Heights gets plenty of different responses.

[Kingofthehill]

I really don't have much to add, other than in an almost paradoxical fashion, it is both the ugliest (namely the light industrial areas immediately south of Atlantic) and most gentrified section of Crown Heights. I do, however, have some familiarity with the area. Two weeks ago, I spent a weekend there - I stayed at Classon/St. Mark's - and was pleasantly surprised at how quiet and unpretentious the area was.

There were lots of cute, hidden cafés, galleries, and coffee shops, as well as easy access to Prospect Park, the Brooklyn Museum, all of neighboring Prospect Heights' amenities, in addition to a bevy of subway lines. Judging from my friends' responses, it was definitely not what comes to peoples' mind when they think of Crown Heights; they all dwelled on the riots, the West Indian Carnival, and ultra-Orthodox Jewish presence. Anyways, with that said, if I were you, I would totally go for it! BTW, I have a few photos of the area in this thread (http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=194825).

[pico44]

Okay, I am curious what forumers think of this. My girlfriend and I are moving to NYC from Portland, OR this coming June roughly and we have been looking for areas within Brooklyn. Our last trip there we took a walk through all the areas we want to live in and found that the northwestern part of Crown Heights was the best for us, which really surprised us because of the image the neighborhood has.

We walked down Classon and noticed a number of great buildings, the one that has stood out the most during the apartment searching has been the old Jewish Hospital buildings. I was curious if anyone here had any experience with those buildings? or that portion of Crown Heights?

Also, I am curious what I should know about moving to NYC, obviously we will be starting new jobs there and should have more than enough to cover first, last, and deposit for a one bedroom size apartment in the 1200-1600 range. Just curious if there was any added info anyone can help with.

The only real limitation we have is the fact that we have a small dog coming with us, which is non-negotiable.


We have plenty of friends there and have gotten plenty of different advice from them, but any information does help and I always enjoy hearing different interpretations of neighborhoods in NYC, which Crown Heights gets plenty of different responses.


A good friend lives in the old hospital on Prospect right off Classon. Hes been there for 7-8 years and loves it. He has the most active social life of any person Ive ever known and works in Manhattan so I don't think getting around has been an issue for him. Don't know about pets. What youre spending seems about right. Welcome to New York--have lots of fun.

[urbanlife]

don't have much to add other than it's both the ugliest (namely the light industrial areas immediately south of atlantic) and most gentrified section of crown heights. two weeks ago, i spent a weekend there - i stayed at classon/st. mark's - and was pleasantly surprised at how quiet and unpretentious the area was. lots of cute, hidden cafes, galleries, and coffee shops + easy to the park, brooklyn museum, and all of prospect heights' amenities. definitely what comes to peoples' mind when they think of crown heights. anyways, i'd say you should totally go for it! i have a few photos of the area in this thread (http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=194825).

Yeah, that was what surprised us the most when walking through. It didn't feel dangerous, it didn't feel like it was full of itself, just felt like a nice little urban part of Brooklyn with the 2,3 a short walk away.

I am curious, the place you stayed at on Classon/St Marks? Did you stay in the apartments in the Jewish Hospital complex, there are 6 buildings that are all apart of that on that block.




Awesome pico44, good to hear. the Jewish Hospital buildings do take pets, which is definitely a plus for me cause having a dog can make moving a bitch sometimes, which is why I hate moving. The proximity to the 2,3 is really nice seeing if I get into City College's architecture program after living there for year for the in-state tuition I am gonna be relying on those two trains a lot. Plus a number of our friends lives close to those two lines, so it is sort of a no brainer.

But good to hear people are liking those buildings and are staying there long term, they seem to be a great deal overall for price and location, plus it is cool that there is an actual chance in those buildings to have an amazing view of the city or the rest of Brooklyn.

[urbanlife]

don't have much to add other than it's both the ugliest (namely the light industrial areas immediately south of atlantic) and most gentrified section of crown heights. two weeks ago, i spent a weekend there - i stayed at classon/st. mark's - and was pleasantly surprised at how quiet and unpretentious the area was. lots of cute, hidden cafes, galleries, and coffee shops + easy to the park, brooklyn museum, and all of prospect heights' amenities. definitely what comes to peoples' mind when they think of crown heights. anyways, i'd say you should totally go for it! i have a few photos of the area in this thread (http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=194825).

Nevermind, if the apartment in your photos is where you stayed, then I think it is one of the buildings across the street from the complex, but I have seen that apartment before on Airbnb, which was a great site to use. If you are ever back there and using that site for NYC, I rented a bedroom in the financial district on Nassau that was fantastic as well.

[THE BIG APPLE]

This area is basically 50 percent Jews and 50 percent African Americans so don't get startled if you hear so noise, because it's probably coming from one side of the community towards the other although the fighting (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crown_Heights_riot) has cooled off considerably since the riots from the early 90's.

[iheartthed]

I lived in Crown Heights for a year. Western Crown Heights has pretty much completely gentrified, so you won't find many "scary" areas... Except maybe the weekend of the West Indian Day parade. The western section of the neighborhood is near the Brooklyn Museum and Prospect Park, which are the cultural centers of Brooklyn (it's also in close proximity to the well known yuppie neighborhoods like Clinton Hill, Fort Greene and Park Slope). The truly rough areas of Crown Heights are on the east end as you get closer to Brownsville, but it's like night and day from the west end.

[urbanlife]

This area is basically 50 percent Jews and 50 percent African Americans so don't get startled if you hear so noise, because it's probably coming from one side of the community towards the other although the fighting (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crown_Heights_riot) has cooled off considerably since the riots from the early 90's.

Yeah, I have definitely read plenty about the riots that happened in Crown Heights. Which the 90s were some rough times for Brooklyn all around. Very amazing how much everything there has changed just in 20years.

With a spring move, hopefully there will be plenty of availabilities to work with and I have been doing plenty of nerding out with padmapper.com and streeteasy.com.

[brickell]

If only I could talk my family into moving...
Good luck with the move.

[tdawg]

If I were you I would also look at the Kensington/Ditmas Park neighborhoods, if you're sold on Brooklyn. You might also be surprised by the Queens neighborhoods of Sunnyside, Astoria and Hunters Point (although Hunters Point is getting quite expensive). Avoid broker fees at any cost. My advice is to go to the neighborhoods you are interested in and walk around: there are always "for rent" signs posted.

[KVNBKLYN]

I recently bought an apartment in nearby Prospect Heights on Saint Marks Avenue, so I've been exploring this part of Crown Heights a bit. I remember the neighborhood from 10 years ago when I lived in Clinton Hill and it has changed dramatically since then, particularly in its retail offerings. Washington Avenue (the border between Crown Heights and Prospect Heights) seems to get a new marker of gentrification every few weeks (the latest is a new wine store that I just noticed the other day). Retail choices on Franklin and Classon are also improving.

Some generic tips for finding the right apartment in NYC: Make sure that you time the walking distance to the nearest subway station (in my book, 10 minutes is too much). And look out for noxious uses on the block, such as a homeless shelter or chicken slaughterhouse. And it's always a good idea to walk by the building at night, particularly on a Friday or Saturday, to see if the immediate surroundings change from the daytime.

Since you're moving from outside the city, you might not know about the broker fee. Almost all apartments are listed via brokers who charge a fee when you sign a lease, somewhere in the range of 12-19% of your YEARLY rent (regardless of whether they helped you find the place or not). There are some ways around it (such as looking for "for rent" signs as suggested by tdawg), but in my experience avoiding paying the broker's fee can be as ellusive as a G train at 4:00 am. Add in that you have a dog and rents in general are on the upswing again, and I think you should at least plan for the possibility of paying a broker.

[Crawford]

Just to clear up a few things, the Orthodox Jewish part of Crown Heights is South Crown Heights, which is south of Eastern Parkway until nearly Linden Boulevard.

The neighborhood under discussion is North Crown Heights, which hasn't had a significant Jewish presence in 50 years (ok, now there are probably plenty of newcomer whites who happen to be Jewish, but you know what I mean).

North Crown Heights was very heavily black West Indian, and is now a mix of the oldtimers (generally older West Indians) and newer arrivals (mostly younger white folks).

South Crown Heights is a totally different world, with a fast-growing Jewish population. The neighborhood is the global center of the Lubavitch Jewish movement, and is basically the "Rome" for Lubavitch Jews. The "world headquarters" sits on Eastern Parkway.

As to Crown Heights' reputation, it certaintly had tons of bad press from 20 years ago, during the riots, but it was never, not even in its worst years, a hard-core bad area or anything. It was always occupied by plenty of middle class homeowners, both in the traditionally West Indian part and in the traditionally Jewish part.

[urbanlife]

Thanks for the clarification Crawford, I actually knew all of that from everything I have read, but it definitely helps clear that up for people. The northwestern part of Crown Heights just seemed more like people who couldn't afford (or didn't want to live in) any of the other trendy neighborhoods in Brooklyn.


I recently bought an apartment in nearby Prospect Heights on Saint Marks Avenue, so I've been exploring this part of Crown Heights a bit. I remember the neighborhood from 10 years ago when I lived in Clinton Hill and it has changed dramatically since then, particularly in its retail offerings. Washington Avenue (the border between Crown Heights and Prospect Heights) seems to get a new marker of gentrification every few weeks (the latest is a new wine store that I just noticed the other day). Retail choices on Franklin and Classon are also improving.

Some generic tips for finding the right apartment in NYC: Make sure that you time the walking distance to the nearest subway station (in my book, 10 minutes is too much). And look out for noxious uses on the block, such as a homeless shelter or chicken slaughterhouse. And it's always a good idea to walk by the building at night, particularly on a Friday or Saturday, to see if the immediate surroundings change from the daytime.


Very true, the distance from the nearest subway stop is definitely important, as well as which trains stop at it and where I plan on going. In general I am betting I will probably be working in Manhattan simply because if I am able to get a transfer with my hotel job, then that will definitely be in Manhattan. Also if I get into City College after living there for a year, being close to the 2,3 would be ideal because it would only need to transfer once in UWS. People often don't think about how many trains they need to transfer until they have to do it everyday.

The homeless shelter I know about, but I forget about things like chicken slaughterhouses and such, that is a good one I wouldn't of thought about.

The walking of the neighborhoods is a really great idea, our initial walk was about seeing what neighborhoods we would be interested in and what our opinions were of them during the day time cause if we didnt feel safe in them during the day time, then we definitely wouldnt at night. Though I do want to walk around that area more at night on the next trip when we get closer to moving. From what I have been hearing though, I don't think that area is really going to bother me or my girlfriend much, she use to live deeper into Crown Heights for a little bit and wasn't bothered by the neighborhood as much as she was by the roaches.


Since you're moving from outside the city, you might not know about the broker fee. Almost all apartments are listed via brokers who charge a fee when you sign a lease, somewhere in the range of 12-19% of your YEARLY rent (regardless of whether they helped you find the place or not). There are some ways around it (such as looking for "for rent" signs as suggested by tdawg), but in my experience avoiding paying the broker's fee can be as ellusive as a G train at 4:00 am. Add in that you have a dog and rents in general are on the upswing again, and I think you should at least plan for the possibility of paying a broker.

For now we are planning on going without a broker, thanks to things like padmapper and streeteasy, finding places hasn't been too difficult, plus the availabilities in the spring should be higher too. Also we have a number of friends there that are willing to help us find a place and didn't need a broker, so hopefully we won't either. But for now, we are just planning on saving as much money as we can over the winter to make the move and finding a place much easier on us.

[mello]

I lived on St. Marks between Franklin and Bedford for two years. It is a great all around neighborhood. I loved having the A/C trains, Shuttle, and 4-2/3 all so close. I would take the A to the beach quite often on nice days. Franklin Ave. seemed to be getting a ton of new amenities right when I left which was last December. Lots of new people moving in and I would regularly walk to Clinton Hill, Fort Greene, and Park Slope. I didn't go to the gym so walking was my exercise so living where I did provided me with tons of great hour to 1.5 hour walks :D

The prices seemed to be going up all the time and tons of new people are always moving in. I even noticed a lot of young white people moving in to Bed Stuy as well but not really Eastern Crown Heights. I walked around a ton and really got a good feel for all of these Brooklyn Hoods. Ditmas Park is cool but I would still go with Crown Heights. If you have any questions feel free to IM me. I really know the area like the back of my hand. I never did stick around for the West Indian Day Parade and weekend. Always got out of town for that. Didn't want to deal with the noise :cheers:

[urbanlife]

I lived on St. Marks between Franklin and Bedford for two years. It is a great all around neighborhood. I loved having the A/C trains, Shuttle, and 4-2/3 all so close. I would take the A to the beach quite often on nice days. Franklin Ave. seemed to be getting a ton of new amenities right when I left which was last December. Lots of new people moving in and I would regularly walk to Clinton Hill, Fort Greene, and Park Slope. I didn't go to the gym so walking was my exercise so living where I did provided me with tons of great hour to 1.5 hour walks :D

The prices seemed to be going up all the time and tons of new people are always moving in. I even noticed a lot of young white people moving in to Bed Stuy as well but not really Eastern Crown Heights. I walked around a ton and really got a good feel for all of these Brooklyn Hoods. Ditmas Park is cool but I would still go with Crown Heights. If you have any questions feel free to IM me. I really know the area like the back of my hand. I never did stick around for the West Indian Day Parade and weekend. Always got out of town for that. Didn't want to deal with the noise :cheers:

That is awesome to hear, and thank you for the response. I will definitely have to hit you up if I have any questions you might know. The main reason Bed-Stuy isn't really much of an option for us is because the area that seemed nice there only really had close access to the G, and more than likely I will be working in Manhattan do to the kind of work I would more than likely get, plus if I get into City College I will be making the commute up to Manhattanville, and I would much rather live closer to a train that I don't have to take too many transfers with.

We are hoping to plan an impromptu trip this winter when there might be some good travel deals so that we could really spend time in that neighborhood and walk over to Franklin and the rest of the streets to get a better firsthand feel for the area during different hours.

I have noticed the rents creeping up a little bit, but it is definitely still well within our price range we are looking for which is good. Plus I really liked that the area really didn't feel like it was the hip place to be, it just felt like a nice area to live, and when you are in your 30s, that is kind of a nice option to have when looking for a new place.

[Kingofthehill]

If you are going to school in Harlem, why are you looking at Crown Heights? That would be an unnecessarily long and painful commute. Harlem and Washington Heights/Inwood make much more sense if you are going to be going to school in the 130s, IMO. Totally different vibes and unique communities, but I think you would be ALOT happier in the long run.

[RobertWalpole]

Crown Heights used to be a huge, violent slum. It was the site of enormous riots 20 years ago.

Like much of Brooklyn, however, it has gentrified considerably. It is a huge Hascidic community.

The WSJ did a recent story about it.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204358004577032141238648570.html?

Brooklyn's Crown Heights Rediscovered

By JOSEPH DE AVILA

http://si.wsj.net/public/resources/images/NY-BH640_NY_OPE_G_20111111181325.jpg

The past decade has brought lots of change to Crown Heights. Crime has fallen, the demographics have begun shifting and patches of new development have started to emerge in this pocket of Brooklyn lined with limestone and brownstone buildings. Changes are most apparent along Franklin Avenue where several new restaurants, coffee shops and bars have opened up.

But what continues to attract many home buyers to Crown Heights is the large stock of historic homes that were built around the turn of the century. The neighborhood's large historic district boasts rows of Colonial, Romanesque and Medieval Revival homes.

"Some of the best architects left their marks on Crown Heights," said Barbara Brown-Allen, a broker with Prudential Douglas Elliman who has lived in the area for 10 years. "That was my draw to the neighborhood."

Crown Heights has emerged as a popular option for home shoppers looking for townhouses but who have also been priced out of areas of Brooklyn such as Park Slope and Brooklyn Heights. In Crown Heights, historic townhomes can be bought for a fraction of the price in other parts of the borough.....

[urbanlife]

If you are going to school in Harlem, why are you looking at Crown Heights? That would be an unnecessarily long and painful commute. Harlem and Washington Heights/Inwood make much more sense if you are going to be going to school in the 130s, IMO. Totally different vibes and unique communities, but I think you would be ALOT happier in the long run.

Well there is a lot of technicalities going on with this move. For starters, I haven't applied or gotten into any schools, this is more just moving to NYC because we want to move to NYC, it just happens City College is my number one choice for state colleges and there are two other colleges in NYC I will probably plan on applying to (Pratt and Columbia.) Plus most of our friends that live in NYC live in Brooklyn, and more than likely the job my girlfriend will get will probably be in Brooklyn.

So basically I will end up making the commute to City College if I get into it from Brooklyn. Plus I have a friend in their grad program now and it sounds like after 8pm, there is no one in the studio anyway these days. With the thanks of computers most architecture grad students are working from home or other places outside of the studio.

[KVNBKLYN]

So basically I will end up making the commute to City College if I get into it from Brooklyn. Plus I have a friend in their grad program now and it sounds like after 8pm, there is no one in the studio anyway these days. With the thanks of computers most architecture grad students are working from home or other places outside of the studio.

I think you've got the right idea. I moved to NYC to go to grad school at Columbia and so got an apartment in Washington Heights because it was relatively close. The short subway rides to school were nice, but absolutely everything else I did required me to sit on the A train for quite a while to get downtown. And the thing is, you pass all these stations where you never get off because there's not really much there to interest you. On your longer commute from Brooklyn, each station you pass is one that you will likely get off at frequently to go to a bar, a restaurant, to visit friends, etc.

I moved to Brooklyn right after I graduated and have lived here for the past 9 years.

[urbanlife]

I think you've got the right idea. I moved to NYC to go to grad school at Columbia and so got an apartment in Washington Heights because it was relatively close. The short subway rides to school were nice, but absolutely everything else I did required me to sit on the A train for quite a while to get downtown. And the thing is, you pass all these stations where you never get off because there's not really much there to interest you. On your longer commute from Brooklyn, each station you pass is one that you will likely get off at frequently to go to a bar, a restaurant, to visit friends, etc.

I moved to Brooklyn right after I graduated and have lived here for the past 9 years.

Yeah, our last trip to NYC, we were staying at a friend's place near NYU, and their friends in upper Manhattan had a hell of a time trying to meet up with us because of the train ride, they couldn't even make it to Brooklyn for breakfast one of the days because it would of taken them well over an hour just to get to the restaurant because of train construction alone.

Besides, I have to say, Brooklyn really reminds me of Chicago in a lot of ways with how the neighborhoods function and feel.

Also, I had a random chance of talking to a retired NYPD officer who worked in Crown Heights during the riots, even he thought the area we were looking at is fine with plenty of new things popping up there all the time.

I definitely can't wait until we get closer to the moving period, it is gonna be super stressful but hopefully everything will fit together.

I have heard that many places require you to make an income 40 times your rent, but then I have heard that if it is a couple then there is a better chance that you can get them to go with combined income. Also I have notices several places in Brooklyn only requiring first month and deposit, and some times last month.

[Inkoumori]

urbanlife, my family are Lubavitch, which is the Jewish "clan" of Crown Heights, but they own buildings throughout Brooklyn. If you need info pm me. Mostly the Lubavitcher are kind and fair, but some tend to spiral into the worst stereotypes. Some see newcomers as an opportunity to take advantage of. No Lubavitcher should ask for a broker fee, it's forbidden, but many do. Don't deal with them, they are the slumlords.

There are plenty of reasonably priced apartments in the area you want, but you might need a co-signer with history. ;)

[Inkoumori]

If you're interested I have an opening in my building- fifth floor walk up, but two bedrooms with a view over the bay and downtown. $1,800/mo. South Slope 17th St. between Fourth and Fifth Ave. 1/3 block from the R train @ Prospect Ave.
view:
http://farm7.staticflickr.com/6151/6169925903_4c120e813e_b.jpg

The catch is it isn't renovated. Has a working kitchen, bathroom and good bones, but nothing more. White walls and old school radiators.

[urbanlife]

urbanlife, my family are Lubavitch, which is the Jewish "clan" of Crown Heights, but they own buildings throughout Brooklyn. If you need info pm me. Mostly the Lubavitcher are kind and fair, but some tend to spiral into the worst stereotypes. Some see newcomers as an opportunity to take advantage of. No Lubavitcher should ask for a broker fee, it's forbidden, but many do. Don't deal with them, they are the slumlords.

There are plenty of reasonably priced apartments in the area you want, but you might need a co-signer with history. ;)

That's cool, I will definitely have to keep you in mind when we get closer, if we had someone else moving with us, $1800 for a two bedroom would be amazing.

I will keep that in mind about the Lubavitch Jewish, I don't like people thinking they can take advantage of me, and I am good at knowing as much as possible before hand to call people out on that.

The co-signer will be a tough part simply because that is a tough sell for us to ask either of our parents to help out with, but I have been living in an apartment in Portland for several years and have taken on a number of responsibilities for the owners because they live in San Francisco, so hopefully I can get a good letter of recommendation from them cause I imagine that couldn't hurt having that with an application packet.

[urbanlife]

Well it looks like it is gonna be a definite thing with moving to NYC, we are planning on a June move, maybe May move if things line up for it. I figure I should ask, has anyone in NYC ever dealt with moving without having any jobs lined up first? Curious if anyone has any experience with that to share?

A friend of ours that lives there moved there without a job and was just asked to pay an extra month in rent.

Anyway, we are still very much set on Crown Heights, especially the Jewish Hospital buildings because the more I learn about that complex, the more it is exactly what we are looking for in a first move to the city.