[The_Architect]

I've actually wondered for a while, there's a 2011-2012 NHL thread, a 2012 CFL thread, even a 2012 MLS thread, but no 2012 MLB or Blue Jays thread?

I know those other leagues have more than one Canadian team, but I've always been under the impression that the Blue Jays have a pretty big country-wide following, even in former Expos territory. I was tempted to make a thread on the main Canada forum but didn't know if it would get many people posting in it, if it would get a lot of non-Toronto forumers just coming in to say "why isn't this in the Toronto section?", or if it would just be filled with a lot of anti-Toronto posts.

They seem to be a much better team than we've seen in the past decade, despite their division being so strong (10/10 "East" teams in both the AL and NL are +.500), and I figured there would be a lot of talk about them this season, even if interest wouldn't have been that big in previous seasons.

So tl;dr, what gives? Should there be a 2012 MLB/Blue Jays thread?

[telyou]

There's something about baseball. Ever since I've moved to Canada it has become my favorite sport.
In Montreal the top baseball team is the Red Sox. I don't know why there's so much support for Boston teams there. Even the Bruins have a strong following in Montreal.
From what I've seen and heard the Jays are pretty popular in the west (BC & Alberta) and the maritimes.

They're playing great this season considering they have the youngest starting rotation and i believe the third youngest team in all of baseball. However, the bats need to pick it up. They need to put more runners on base. It seems they're a bit too patient at the plate. This puts the pressure on the umps and sometimes they won't get that call they want on a full count. They need to swing the bats. I think it's a lack of confidence from the fact they are a young team.

[DrNest]

Last night's game showed a too often dependence on home runs to win games. Something the Blue Jays have been strong in hitting over the past few seasons, and currently fourth overall in the major leagues for home runs scored this season. Which as a fan at the game I love to watch.

However, I do like watching them craft out runs through consistent play at bat. The previous game against Baltimore showed just how good that can do this, scoring 8 runs, none of which were through home runs. I can see a lot of potential in these bats, and I wouldn't be surprised to see a complete mauling of some team in the not too distant future, a bit like Seattle did yesterday to Texas.

[The_Architect]

I've actually found this season they rely a lot less on solo home runs as they did in previous seasons. If you look at Bautista's season when he hit 54 home runs, the vast majority were solo home runs, as many of the players just couldn't get on base before he was up. Conversely, in the times when they would get players on base, more often than not they'd leave them stranded. This has happened a few times this season, but I don't see it as a pandemic on the team like it had been in the past.

Also in past seasons they were definitely a "score more runs than the other team to win games" team, whereas this season their pitching (specifically their rotation) is a LOT better, and their closers are better too (despite how many blown saves Cordero has).

It really sucks that Morrow was nailed in the middle of a ridiculously good game, but at least it's not more serious than a shin contusion. I remember when Halladay was nailed and he was out for 6 weeks.

But, as much as I see their improvement this year, games like the series in Texas shows me how far away they are from a World Series.

Small steps.

[osmo]

World Series way off but I can see us sneaking into a wild card spot if they can get some consistency going. The Blue Jays are getting great TV numbers nation wide so its very much a national team.

Encarnacion has been saving their rears. His bat is on fire I don't think anybody saw him putting up these numbers so early. I can't wait to get back to TO tho I already have my tickets scooped up for the last series in September with the Yanks!

[Acajack]

There's something about baseball. Ever since I've moved to Canada it has become my favorite sport.
In Montreal the top baseball team is the Red Sox. I don't know why there's so much support for Boston teams there. Even the Bruins have a strong following in Montreal.
From what I've seen and heard the Jays are pretty popular in the west (BC & Alberta) and the maritimes.



You rarely hear about the Jays in Quebec (and I live on the border with Ontario), in spite of the fact that one of our sports networks (can't remember which) has a TV contract with them. Baseball is just baseball here - there isn't really a "home" team that is covered by the media now that the Expos are gone. Telyou is probably right about the Red Sox being the closest thing to a "popular" team, and they are probably more popular than the Jays even.

As for Atlantic Canada, the Jays are popular but the Red Sox are big there as well. Not sure if the Sox or the Jays are more popular at the moment. When the Expos were around the region was almost 1/3 Jays, 1/3 Red Sox, 1/3 Expos, and the Expos' support was not limited to Acadian areas - although they were by far the dominant team there.

In the West, I know that in BC the Seattle Mariners are quite popular. The Jays are also popular in BC but not sure if they or the Mariners are on top.

[telyou]

It's hard to pinpoint numbers but you're probably right that it's 50/50 in BC with the Mariners and in the Maritimes with the Red Sox. Though i think the Jays might get some more support in Montreal thanks to Vladdy.

What about Manitoba and Saskatchewan? Does babseball even make the 6 o'clock news there? What is the perception by the public?

The good news is the attendance figures. At about 24.5k/game they're 20th in the league. If they can stay competitive in September i think they can crack the top half.

But that AL East is tough. What are the chances that Lind will ever wear a Jays uniform again?

[Highinthesky]

I'm extremely excited by what I have seen from the Jays this season, they have really demonstrated that they are on the right track. That is not only in terms of the players on the field but management as well. In seasons past Lind would still be playing first and if there was a change made it wouldn't be until the end of the season. This year they feel the urgency to try and make improvements now.

However that said there are some concerns. For one I think the rotation has highly overachieved. Romero hit a rough spot but should be ok and Morrow looks like he is finally going to live up to the hype, however Alverez is not missing enough bats and Drabek is walking way too many hitters for sustained success. Hutchison has looked great in the 5th spot but he is still a huge question mark with such a small sample size. So that is concerning.

Having said that about the pitching I feel on the offensive side guys like Bautista, Lawrie, Escobar, Rasmus, and obviously Lind have underperformed. The team has already made a move regarding Lind and recent play suggests that Bautista and Rasmus might be turning it around. Lawrie hasn't been bad he just hasn't slugged much which could easily turn around. So all in all even if the pitching does regress the offense might pick up the slack and the Jays could end the year looking like a strong contender heading into 2013.

[pEte fiSt iN Ur fAce]

Like a lot of other people, I'm excited by what I see with the BJs this year: lots of young talent, a good attitude and hustle. However, they can't beat their division rivals so there's absolutely no chance they'll make the playoffs. It's so frustrating to watch them play well and then get swept by the Red Sox, Yankees or Rays as they invariably do. It's a real shame too, because of all the years to make the postseason I think this is the one. Nobody's running away with it yet...

[The_Architect]

The only time they've played the Yankees they swept them, they just swept Baltimore and this is the first series where Boston beat them.

[telyou]

They're still 11-14 against the East. Which is tied with Boston for the worst record against the east.

[Highinthesky]

Saying they can't beat their division rivals is one of those blanket statements you here casual fans use. They certainly cannot beat the Rays, they owned Baltimore until this season, and when it comes to the Yanks and Sox it is kind of a toss up. From the start of 2010 to today they 16-28 against the Rays, 19-19 against the Yanks, 17-25 against the Sox, and 31-14 against the Orioles for a total mark against the east of 83-86

[telyou]

Not sure what your trying to imply highinthesky.
Those numbers clearly indicate that they can't win against their division.
Nobody is implying that they are horrible against the AL East. However, playing sub 500 ball against them clearly indicates that they do struggle against those teams.
They have to play better then that against the east if they have any hope of making the playoffs.

[Highinthesky]

People should just stop talking in Hyperbole! Is 500 against your own division good enough to make the playoffs? Probably not. Is playing 500 the same as not being able to win against your own division? No because by saying 500 means they win half the time.

[Highinthesky]

Do we just ignore their 19-19 mark against the Yanks and 31-14 mark against the Orioles because it won't fit into our nice blanket statement?

[harls]

What about Manitoba and Saskatchewan? Does babseball even make the 6 o'clock news there? What is the perception by the public?


The Blue Jays were huge back when I was in high school in MB (late 80's early 90's). Having the two World Series titles probably helped! I still have an old book from 1991 with the whole roster somewhere in a closet back home. I haven't seen the news from back home for a while, but in the past they would always include Jays updates..

The Winnipeg Goldeyes are one of the top draws in the Northern League.. they get plenty of coverage, too.

[telyou]

May i remind you that the previous 2 season (2008-09) the Yanks were 21-15 against the Jays.

[pEte fiSt iN Ur fAce]

Saying they can't beat their division rivals is one of those blanket statements you here casual fans use. They certainly cannot beat the Rays, they owned Baltimore until this season, and when it comes to the Yanks and Sox it is kind of a toss up. From the start of 2010 to today they 16-28 against the Rays, 19-19 against the Yanks, 17-25 against the Sox, and 31-14 against the Orioles for a total mark against the east of 83-86

So, what you're saying is the Jays are 52-72 against teams they MUST beat in order to make the playoffs? (TB, NYY, BOS)

That's a big problem.

Yes, they've been successful against the Os but that's irrelevant as they fall off the pace. I'm not sure anyone expects Baltimore to be near the top of the division come September. Stranger things have happened though.

[Highinthesky]

At least that statement is accurate and really its only against Boston and Tampa where they really need to see significant improvement. Otherwise it just sounds like a generic statement from a casual fan as I said above.

2008 and 2009? You mean when almost no one in the current Jays lineup was a starter or on the team? Why not pull numbers from 2006 and 2007 or 2004 and 2005, the numbers might be even worse.

New lineup looked good tonight. Rasmus has looked good each time he has hit in the 2 hole.

[pEte fiSt iN Ur fAce]

I didn't see them game tonight but judging by the production of Lawrie and Rasmus and the lack of walks given up by Romero, it was a good night. Three more errors though which is an ongoing concern.

Here is the Jays' record against their division rivals from 2009 to present:

v. NYY (25-31)
v. Bos (24-36)
v. TB (20-42)

That's a combined record of 69-109 / .388 win percentage.

This year they're 7-9. Given their 40-23 record against Baltimore since 2009, they really need to be .500 or ideally a little better against the big teams if they want a sniff at the postseason. The wins should continue against the Os despite of their on-field improvement.

I think that's entirely possible, though far from easy. Nobody in baseball wants to trade places with the Jays, that's for sure.

[The_Architect]

Rasmus... dat 5/5.

It's worth pointing out that literally nobody in either East division is below .500...

EDIT: My bad, Philadelphia is currently .491 for the lowest in either East division.

For comparison, the Jays would be 2nd in the AL West and NL Central.

[Highinthesky]

Any historical comparisons should stop at 2010; first because AA took over at the end of the 2009 season and second the only regular from the 2009 lineup on this seasons regular lineup is Rickey Romero. None of the starting 9 today played significant time in 2009. To include numbers from a team that is the same in name only is really just trying to tailor the facts to your argument.

[pEte fiSt iN Ur fAce]

I'm trying to show you how important it is that the Blue Jays start beating their division rivals! This has nothing to do with who's in the line-up!

2012 2011 2010 2009 Totals
TB 31-23 91-71* 96-66* 84-78
BAL 3-3' 9-9' 11-7' 10-8' 33-27
BOS 4-5' 12-6' 11-7' 9-9' 36-27
NYY 4-2' 9-9' 10-8' 7-11' 30-30
TOR 6-2' 12-6' 10-8' 14-4' 42-20
17-12' 42-30 42-30 40-32 141-104

BOS 28-26 90-72 89-73 95-67*
BAL 2-4' 10-8' 9-9' 16-2' 37-23
NYY 0-2' 12-6' 9-9' 9-9' 30-26
TB 5-4' 6-12' 7-11' 9-9' 27-36
TOR 3-3' 10-8' 12-6' 11-7' 36-24
10-13' 38-34 37-35 45-27 130-109

NYY 29-24 97-65* 95-67* 103-59*
BAL 5-3' 13-5' 13-5' 13-5' 44-18
BOS 2-0' 6-12' 9-9' 9-9' 26-30
TB 2-4' 9-9' 8-10' 11-7' 30-30
TOR 0-2' 11-7' 8-10' 12-6' 31-25
9-9' 39-33 38-34 45-27 131-103

TOR 28-26 81-81 85-77 75-87
BAL 4-5' 12-6' 15-3' 9-9' 40-23
BOS 3-3' 8-10' 6-12' 7-11' 24-36
NYY 2-0' 7-11' 10-8' 6-12' 25-31
TB 2-6' 6-12' 8-10' 4-14' 20-42
11-14' 33-39 39-33 26-46 109-132
* denotes a postseason appearance.

So what's your argument? The Jays don't need to beat their division rivals? I'm a little confused by your inability to discuss this issue.

BTW, as you could probably guess, I'm a little more than just a casual fan, as you like to put it. Where we differ is my ability to look objectively at the strengths and weaknesses of this club. They have to start beating those tough teams in their division. Full stop.

[Highinthesky]

they can't beat their division rivals

This is your statement and this is what I have been talking about the entire time. I'm not sure how that is not discussing the topic at hand?

It is complete hyperbole. As I said before, over the past two years plus this season that would apply to two of their 4 division rivals but not against the other two. Anything beyond that time frame and it seems pointless because you're talking about the same team in name only or you're tailoring the facts to suit your argument. If the reasons why using states from a Jays team that is in fact not the same team as they are fielding now doesn't seem evident to you then yeah kinda of a casual fan move. So again Hyperbole or generic or a blanket statement that would come from a casual fan.

Are you a casual fan? Who knows, who cares; I don't. Do they need to play better and win some games against the Rays and Sox? Absolutely. Still doesn't mean that "they can't beat their division rivals" because their division is more than the Sox and Rays.

[pEte fiSt iN Ur fAce]

Cool...so you're arguing over semantics. Fine, the Jays need to win more than they lose against their division. Done.

Anyway, I like the approach the starting rotation is taking this year.

Last year Morrow would go 6 or 7 innings, strike out 10 and have the bullpen let him down. This year he's not going for the K every time saving his arm for the later innings.

Love it.

[The_Architect]

Morrow is going to get a no-hitter soon, he's just incredible this year. Definitely passed Ricky for their best starter.

[Highinthesky]

Hyperbole or Semantics, whatever you want to call it sure.

Against a strike out prone Sox team if Alvarez doesn't get close to a K an inning his slow demise is going to continue.

[pEte fiSt iN Ur fAce]

Alvarez is capable of getting far more strikeouts than he has to date; you can say the same for the other starters as well. However, that's not their M.O. this year under Walton and Farrell. They're pitching smarter. Rather than going for the strikeout every time they're forcing batters to put the ball in play. The result is fewer pitches and of course, fewer Ks. Superficially, Alvarez's numbers don't look great but he's getting the job done. And let's not forget that he's only 22 years old. The future looks bright for this kid.

n.b. He just gave up a 2-run homer to Rios. :cool:

[Highinthesky]

Yeah that is a legit strategy and you see a guy like Morrow executing on it and his k/9 dropped along with his success. However Alvarez has a k/9 of 2.6. That's more than choosing to pitch to contact. He hasn't demonstrated an ability to throw a strike out pitch this season. It will probably eventually hurt him because it can inflate his pitch count and sometimes you need a k to get out of a jam.

[pEte fiSt iN Ur fAce]

Cordero blows another.

Where are Henke and Ward when you need them? Hell, I'd take Billy Koch at this point.

Alvarez:

I suspect it'll take him a couple years to round into form. The Ks should come in time.

[pEte fiSt iN Ur fAce]

The Jays traded young pitching prospect Nestor Molina to the White Sox in the off-season for now-injured Sergio Santos. Here are Molina's numbers so far this season in the minors:

(W-L) 4-5
(ERA) 5.23
(G) 12
(GS) 11
(IP) 72.1
(H) 95
(BB) 16
(SO) 56

Like Alvarez, he's young and full of promise, though his stats aren't great this year. Have to watch him to see how things turn out.

[Highinthesky]

Wow those numbers stink. What level is he at with the Sox? I hope not single A or this guy might not have much of a career..

I think comparing him to Alvarez is the slap to the face of Alvarez. Alvarez projects out to be a top of the rotation starter. The reason the Jays traded that guy is because their scouting department projected him to be a back end of the rotation starter at best.

[pEte fiSt iN Ur fAce]

^Those numbers are from AA and AAA this year. I believe he's with the Sox AAA affiliate in Charlotte now.

Last year his numbers were nearly flawless and very good in previous seasons as well. He might need a season at AAA to get everything sorted.

2011 ~ A+, AA
(W-L) 12-3
(ERA) 2.21
(G) 26
(GS) 23
(IP) 130.1
(H) 114
(BB) 16
(SO) 148

[pEte fiSt iN Ur fAce]

More Interleague tonight. Like a lot of people, I was really excited when interleague play started. However, its lustre has worn off and I really think we ought to go back to the old ways. Aside from detracting from the World Series and All Star game, there's nothing worse than losing a completely pointless game against a team with which you have no historical or geographical ties. I have the feeling that many share my thoughts on this topic.

[Highinthesky]

Well might as well get used to it. Starting next season when they balance the leagues there will be at least one interleague game a day.

[pEte fiSt iN Ur fAce]

Hmmm I think it's a mistake.

I know my feelings are likely fueled by childhood nostalgia but Interleague play really takes away from the mystery of the other league and its players.

As a Jays fan (pre-TSN), sometimes the only time you'd see Pete Rose, Ryne Sandberg or Dale Murphy play was at the All Star Game. It was exciting and the games were often played with great prejudice.

Anyway, I guess a lot of that is just fond memories on my behalf.

[pEte fiSt iN Ur fAce]

Oh Gaaaaawwwwwwwwwwd...Cordero's pitching. Fingers crossed.

[pEte fiSt iN Ur fAce]

Horribly and tragically predictable.

Time for some cutting 'n' slashing.

[DrNest]

I'm not a huge fan of inter-league play. But that's largely because I am a big fan of the DH and do not at all like the pitcher batting. To me it's a wasted batter in the line up, especially for AL teams where the pitchers have so little career experience of actually batting.

It's frustrating that the Jays can lose games because their pitchers don't have batting experience to get a runner scored. Lets say we lose 3 games in a NL ball park this season, then miss out on a wild card spot by 2 games in Sept. Besides the bullpen losing games for us I know where I would be looking at 'lost' games.

Maybe if the NL switched to AL rules with a DH then inter-league play would be ok. I do like the notion of getting to see teams you don't normally play, but that's all.

[pEte fiSt iN Ur fAce]

I have to say that I'm more of a purist...I love the NL game. However, there are times when you wonder what the point is of having the pitcher hit. It does force managers to be a little more strategic but in the end, I'm not sure whether it's better for the game or not. Anyway, that's the beauty of baseball: two leagues; two different sets of rules. How awesome is that?

[pEte fiSt iN Ur fAce]

Just a couple updates on players at AAA LV:

Adam Lind
(BA) .405 (HR) 3 (RBI) 17

Travis Snider
(BA).333 (HR) 5 (RBI) 27

Travis d'Arnaud
(BA) .332 (HR) 13 (RBI) 41

Adeiny Hechavarria
(BA) .324 (HR) 4 (RBI) 41

Anthony Gose
(BA) .287 (HR) 3 (RBI) 30 (SB) 24

Eric Thames
(BA) .265 (HR) 2 (RBI) 4

Vlad Guerrero
(BA) .214 (HR) 0 (RBI) 2 (28 AB)

For those unfamiliar with the PCL, offensive numbers tend to be grossly inflated. However, these guys are still doing very well.

You have to wonder whether Snider's days are numbered or not. He might be injured actually. I'm not 100% sure.

Not much of note happening on the pitching front, at AAA anyway.

[pEte fiSt iN Ur fAce]

Rasmus looks good. I'm not sure what the Jays' expectations are but I'd be pretty happy if he finished the season batting .260+ with 20+ hrs etc. Add to that his stellar defence and you've got a decent player. As long as he keeps his sh*t together mentally he should be an integral member of the club for years to come.

[The_Architect]

I was out all weekend and therefore didn't catch most of the Atlanta games, even though I love when the Jays play the Braves (it reminds me of 1992)..

I did, however, catch parts of the game yesterday. I came in during the 3rd inning to see that they were down 4-0, and due to the previous games assumed that was about it. I then went out and came back to them being up 9-4 and literally said "holy shit" out loud. Where were these bats in that 5th inning the last few games?!?!?! Come on guys if we hit like that all the time we wouldn't be 2nd last in the division!

Also on the Alvarez comments.. His thing is that he's a ground ball pitcher. He isn't a huge strike out guy but he gets them out all the same.

Farrell needs to stop putting in Cordero.

[Highinthesky]

Snider has been hurt with a wrist injury. He's just getting back to Vegas now so we might see him with the big club in a few weeks. I think Lind could hit 500 and he wouldn't get called back up. Going to be interesting to see what happens there.

Call it a pitching strategy or call him a ground ball pitcher, 2.6k/9 is terrible. Go look at the top pitchers around the league, all will have at least a 5k/9. Even a guy like Brandon McCarthy who is a heavy sinker ball pitcher "ground ball pitcher" has a k/9 of 5.9.

[pEte fiSt iN Ur fAce]

Vlady's gone...I really wanted to see him in a BJ's uniform. :(

[Highinthesky]

No better test of your organizations depth than losing three of your five starters. What a run of luck.

[DrNest]

It's shocking how those three pitchers have gone down in such similar circumstances. Wish them all a speedy recovery.

[pEte fiSt iN Ur fAce]

Drabek's injury sounds like it might be season ending right? A torn ligament in the elbow sounds nasty. I wonder what the rotation will look like? Cecil's getting the call this weekend. :yuck:

The Yankees are really starting to run away with things now. Baltimore's hangin' in there too. Damn. Damn. Damn.

[sonysnob]

Any word on Hurchison's injury yet? I was at the game last night, and the bullpen put forth a solid effort vs a very beat up Philadelphia team.

[pEte fiSt iN Ur fAce]

Drabek's getting a second opinion on his elbow shortly but it looks like Tommy John surgery AGAIN. That's a shame. Won't see him on the mound for some time.

As for Hutchison, I don't know how serious the injury is. I think they're being very cautious at this point.

So what will the rotation look like then?

1. Romero
2. Alvarez
3. Cecil?
4. Villanueva?
5. Laffey??

Gonna need some heroic efforts from the pitching staff in the coming weeks if the Jays wanna stay in contention.

[pEte fiSt iN Ur fAce]

Lind's numbers continue to balloon: .412 6 25 (97 AB).

At some point they're going to have to do something with him; it would be cruel to leave him at AAA with that kind of production. Not sure how much trade value he has but perhaps they could package him in a deal for a pitcher, because they definitely need another arm in the rotation.

d'Arnaud is hitting .346 so far this year with 15 HR and 48 RBI. He's on pace for a monster year, so we'll have to see when he gets the call...definitely in September if not before.

[Highinthesky]

Someone else might get a call up from AA, when they called up Hutch there were a couple of other names being looked at so they will likely be looked at again.

There have been trade rumour regarding the Jays and Garza in Chicago so this might out some emphasis on getting a deal done. Or they could look somewhere else like say Oakland where there is a pretty good pitcher in Brandon McCarthy who is wasting away there.

[DrNest]

I would suspect that Lind is finished with the Jays now. Or more precisely, the Jays are finished with him. I don't think he will be called up now, especially when Cooper and Gomes are doing well. I think it's more likely that he will be part of a trade deal for another starting pitcher.

[pEte fiSt iN Ur fAce]

The pressure's on AA now. If they're serious about contending this year, a deal's gonna have to get done. As a fan, it would say a lot if they just sat back and rode out the injuries by filling the gaps with minor-leaguers.

Yeah, I've heard Garza and perhaps Dempster might be available. Neither would come cheaply though, at least in terms of salary. I'm sure the Cubs would love to dump those guys:

Garza 2-5 4.04 $9.5M/yr free agent 2014.

Dempster 3-3 2.11 $14/yr free agent 2013.

For some perspective, Romero's making $5M this year and $7.5M for the next three. The final year of his contract (2016) will see him make $13M.

Morrow's making $4M this year and $8M for the following two seasons. The final year he'll make $10M (team option).

Anyway, those two guys are fairly expensive so I wonder whether AA will pull the trigger on a deal for either of them.

Otherwise, the rotation will be filled with the likes of Villanueva, Laffey, Coello, Carreno, Jesse Chavez, Scott Richmond, etc. Young pitcher Deck McGuire hasn't adjusted well to AA ball going 2-8 with a 6.72 ERA. Not sure he's ready to take the mound for the Jays.

Total bummer. :yuck:

[pEte fiSt iN Ur fAce]

I would suspect that Lind is finished with the Jays now. Or more precisely, the Jays are finished with him. I don't think he will be called up now, especially when Cooper and Gomes are doing well. I think it's more likely that he will be part of a trade deal for another starting pitcher.

Agreed.

You can tell by watching him play that he's not a physical specimen. I guess Lind wasn't in great shape coming into the year which was an issue for the club. Add to that a .186 BA and less than stellar defence and you've got a demotion waiting to happen. He deserves another chance, based on winning the Silver Slugger in 2009, so hopefully they'll deal him some time in the next few weeks.

Along those lines, Cooper deserves a good look this year and it would appear he's getting it. He hit something close to .370 last season at AAA and he's a 1st round draft pick, so they really need to see what they've got in him.

[sonysnob]

Those numbers seem pretty crappy for Garza. How come he is doing so poorly? I suppose the team behind him isn't helping but his ERA is very high.

[pEte fiSt iN Ur fAce]

^They're a dreadful team. There's no end in sight for their 100+ year World Championship drought. Actually, I'm a Cubs fan simply because I can't resist a loveable loser...also a Leafs fan obviously.

Anyway, I'm sure Garza would do just fine in a Jays uniform, overpaid though he may be. Here's what $10M will get you:

06 MIN 3-6 5.76
07 MIN 5-7 3.69
08 TBR 11-9 3.70
09 TBR 8-12 3.95
10 TBR 15-10 3.91
11 CHC 10-10 3.32
12 CHC 2-5 4.04

I don't know, I'm no GM but maybe he's worth it.

I still feel the Jays need to make a move. I don't wanna hear anymore of this 'next year' jive. It's always next year in Jaysland. The time is now. Pull the trigger.

[pEte fiSt iN Ur fAce]

Perhaps we've been getting a taste of the real Colby Rasmus recently. He's hitting .356 with 7 HR and 18 RBI in his last 73 AB since moving to the 2 spot.

Cecil pitched well, though he's not the answer the Jays' rotation woes. Looks like Jesse Chavez will go against Milwaukee on Tues.

The Phillies continue to tank. Last place. 9 games back. $175M payroll.

[The_Architect]

Sweeeeepppp! What a series! Loving the game Rasmus has been bringing lately.

[Highinthesky]

^They're a dreadful team. There's no end in sight for their 100+ year World Championship drought. Actually, I'm a Cubs fan simply because I can't resist a loveable loser...also a Leafs fan obviously.

Anyway, I'm sure Garza would do just fine in a Jays uniform, overpaid though he may be. Here's what $10M will get you:

06 MIN 3-6 5.76
07 MIN 5-7 3.69
08 TBR 11-9 3.70
09 TBR 8-12 3.95
10 TBR 15-10 3.91
11 CHC 10-10 3.32
12 CHC 2-5 4.04

I don't know, I'm no GM but maybe he's worth it.

I still feel the Jays need to make a move. I don't wanna hear anymore of this 'next year' jive. It's always next year in Jaysland. The time is now. Pull the trigger.

Those numbers with Tampa are good considering the majority of the games were in the tough AL East. 15 wins in 2010 was really good. It looked like in 2011 he took a step forward and while 2012 doesn't look great his 2012 peripherals look good. I think its likely the real appeal of Garza to Jay's brass is 34-31 with 3.84 era career against the east.

[pEte fiSt iN Ur fAce]

I'd be thrilled to see him in a Jays' uniform. The question is what AA's gonna have to do to get him. I'm sure more than a few teams are knocking at the Cubs' door.

From reading a few articles recently, it would seem that Dempster is likely to stay in the NL...at this point in his career he pretty much dictates where he plays. Perhaps the Dodgers will take a run at him.

[pEte fiSt iN Ur fAce]

It's been a bit of a back and forth regarding his injury but it would appear Drabek's gonna have Tommy John surgery. We won't see him again this year or perhaps ever I would think.

Litsch and McGowan are still AWOL. Will we ever see them take the mound again? The McGowan situation is a bit ridiculous at this point.

The Jays, like most organisations, don't have a tonne of good arms at their disposal. A couple decent pitchers at LV and one or two at AA. They've three great pitching prospects at Lansing (MID-A): Aaron Sanchez (19); Noah Syndergaard (19) and Justin Nicolino (20) but they're a couple years away at least.

[pEte fiSt iN Ur fAce]

http://www.tsn.ca/toronto/story/?id=398645

I had to refresh my memory of this guy when his named popped up in this article. He's having a really poor season but his career numbers aren't too bad.

07 BAL 7-5 3.70
08 BAL 10-12 3.63
09 BAL 10-17 5.04
10 BAL 11-14 3.83
11 BAL 9-17 4.33
12 COL 3-6 7.02

The asking price seems pretty low perhaps because he's making $8.2M this season and is a free agent at the end of the year. Anyway, I say go for it...easy for me to say.

p.s. Alvarez has been pitching poorly of late. Tightness in the elbow anybody? ;)

[The_Architect]

What a brutal way to lose a ballgame.. That's just bad luck right there.

Great batting by Lawrie, Encarnacion and Bautista though, that Encarnacion homer was to space.

[pEte fiSt iN Ur fAce]

^463 feet. That's the 8th longest HR this season. He's had a couple others over 440 ft too.

[DrNest]

It was gutting to lose that way, but overall the team played well. There's good signs that the Jays will get at least one win at the Brewers.

[The_Architect]

^463 feet. That's the 8th longest HR this season. He's had a couple others over 440 ft too.

Link? The ESPN tracker has it at 440 feet.

[pEte fiSt iN Ur fAce]

I think I got that number from the ESPN highlights...I can't really remember.

Yeah, I just checked ESPN ~ 440 ft.

TSN says it was 463 feet. http://www.tsn.ca/mlb/story/?id=398697

[Highinthesky]

Lots of fireworks tonight. Hope everyone get a chance to see it.

[The_Architect]

Rasmus and Bautista and Edwin, oh my!

Wow, they go back-to-back-to-back, then the same three almost do it again! What an exciting game to win!

With that game, Bautista moves into the 2nd spot in the MLB for home runs, 1 out of the lead, and 4th in RBIs with 52. That slump at the beginning of the season is loooonnnggg gone!

[pEte fiSt iN Ur fAce]

I missed it. Total bummer. :(

An impressive display of power. I don't care what Bautista hits as long as that power continues. Wow!

Was Chavez as bad as his line would suggest? 80 pitches in 2.2 innings?? Yikes. And Coello only managed one out. I hope the pitching staff survives this rough patch.

[pEte fiSt iN Ur fAce]

Pitcher David Pauley claimed by the Jays via waivers. http://www.tsn.ca/mlb/story/?id=398815

9-19 4.51 (20 GS)

Carreno got lit up real good tonight. :slob:

[DrNest]

A good move by the Jays as a stop-gap cover. We've not had to give up any great prospects or the likes of Lawrie/Rasmus etc to get a pitcher with major league experience and can do a job. He's not the long term future, but will help for the time being.

I read on other forums Jays 'fans' complaining that AA hasn't got a starting ace already. It makes me wonder if these folks actually understand the game and trades?! There's no point in giving away so many top prospects or stars just to get a guy that may win you another 5 or 6 games this season. And no disrespect, but the likes of McKoy, Snider, Lind etc aren't going to get anything superstar in the pitching area.

I trust what AA is doing, and would suggest to fans to look at the standings. We're still not far from a Wild Card spot.

[pEte fiSt iN Ur fAce]

Jays fans have to be patient, it's true and AA has to be very careful with any move he makes. However, fans [myself very much included] need to know that he's doing everything in his power to get a decent pitcher...a stop gap type isn't going to cut it.

I've said before that I think the time is now and that they should really go for it. I have no doubt that AA will do everything he can to ensure the Jays stay in the race.

All of that said, I suppose a lot of it hinges upon whether ownership will free up the dough for a good pitcher.

[pEte fiSt iN Ur fAce]

Oops missed this one...how is that possible? ;) http://toronto.bluejays.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20120621&content_id=33708346&vkey=news_tor&c_id=tor

10-14 6.13 ERA 34 GS

Actually, with those numbers he may be headed straight for LV. They're probably a little lean in the pitching department down there.

[DrNest]

Nice to see the Jays score 11 runs without the aid of a home run and then Jose add that 12th "insurance run".

[pEte fiSt iN Ur fAce]

Romero's having one of those seasons: 8-1 4.34.

He hasn't pitched very well but he's getting all the right bounces.

Bautista's really hitting his stride: .237 BA 23 HR 55 RBI.

He's tied with Adam Dunn for HRs and is second in RBI to Hamilton. Encarnacion isn't too far behind either.

[pEte fiSt iN Ur fAce]

Yet another deal that fell below the radar. Here are Hill's career numbers: 9-18 4.74. I guess they'll start him in AAA and see how he does.

For those who don't know, he's Canadian [from Georgetown] and was a pretty decent prospect coming up through the Expos organisation. I don't remember all the details of his career but I seem to recall him having injury issues. He's had some success at the Major League level but he's one of those guys who's too good for AAA but not quite good enough for the big time. Anyway, we'll see how he does at Las Vegas.

[pEte fiSt iN Ur fAce]

I didn't see the game tonight but Cecil's numbers suggest he pitched quite well: 6IP 1ER. Thank God. It looks like a position in the rotation is his for the taking. Let's hope he continues to do well.

Rasmus is swinging a hot stick: .258 13 41. He's starting to creep up the leader board in RBIs. I think he's in the top-15 now. What a pleasant surprise he's been the last few weeks.

Jays will go for the sweep tomorrow. However, with Chavez (0-0 8.22) going against Buehrle (5-8 3.82) it won't be easy. It'll be interesting to see how Chavez recovers from that rough first outing. It may have been a case of serious jitters as it was the first MLB start of his career (6-10 5.50).

[pEte fiSt iN Ur fAce]

I think it's safe to say the Chavez-Coello era is over. :slob:

Lind is back! He hit .395 with 8 HR and 29 RBI in 31 games at LV. They sent Cooper the other way which I'm not terribly happy about. I think he deserves more of a chance than that. Anyway, I'm not a coach so I'm not sure what the whole story is.

So, is Lind back up because of his play at AAA or is this to shop him as potential trade bait? It would be hard to get value for him at LV, it's true. It'll be interesting to see how he does after that little break.

The Jays are hangin' in there which is more than admirable all things considered. However, they now have four teams separating them from the 2nd Wild Card spot, two of which being Tampa and Boston.

[The_Architect]

The AL East is ridiculous. The Jays would be a perennial playoff team in any other division.

[pEte fiSt iN Ur fAce]

Can we move this thread to the Canada section? It's dying a slow and painful death here.

Thanks.

[The_Architect]

Agreed. It is Canada's baseball team after all and there is an Expos thread (a team that doesn't even exist)..

[pEte fiSt iN Ur fAce]

Arrrrrrrrrrgh! I was just having a laugh when I mentioned Alvarez potentially having elbow soreness. It looks like it was no joke afterall. :(

Jamie Moyer to the Jays!! 49 years young! Broke into MLB in 1986!! How awesome is that?

Otherwise though, the Jays are kinda screwed. It's hard to look at things any differently. Maybe it is time to say fook it and build for next year. Blasphemy, I know.

[Highinthesky]

The good luck continues. It will take a minor miracle for the Jays to hang around now. Moyer is a cool story but I'm not looking forward to one of his starts given he got knocked around in the NL West :yuck:

[pEte fiSt iN Ur fAce]

Here's a fun exercise: Name the Jays' starting rotation.

1. Romero
2. Cecil
3. Laffey
4. Carreno?
5. Chavez?
6. Moyer??

Canadian pitcher, Scott Richmond, saw some action last night. Some may recall him starting quite a few games in 2009 with some success. He's an interesting story: undrafted and playing in the Independent League prior to being signed by the Jays at the age of 28. Last year in LV he was 6-9 with a 7.33 ERA.

Shawn Hill has started a couple games in LV. He seems to be doing well and may get the call soon ~ God knows the Jays need all the help they can get!

Almost forgotten slugger Travis Snider is healthy and playing again at AAA. He's hitting .336 with 8 HR and 39 RBI in only 137 AB. His production is as good, if not even a little better than what Lind accomplished (.392 8 HR 29 RBI in 125 AB). If I were Snider, I think I'd start taking things a little personally. They need to call him up or deal him. He's too good to be left in the minors.

Incidentally, Eric Thames isn't exactly lighting things up at LV (.273 2 13).

There's a lot of young talent at AAA. It'll be interesting to see what transpires in the coming weeks.

[pEte fiSt iN Ur fAce]

http://toronto.bluejays.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20120626&content_id=33963378&notebook_id=33970504&vkey=notebook_tor&c_id=tor

[LeftCoaster]

Can we move this thread to the Canada section? It's dying a slow and painful death here.

Thanks.

No this is a local team and will be staying in the local section.

The Canada section is already Toronto-centric enough already, not to mention the fit several forumers would have if this was moved into the Canada section.

[pEte fiSt iN Ur fAce]

Moyer made his first start at LV the other day and got the win. He pitched 5 innings giving up 3 earned runs on 7 hits while striking out 6. Not a bad start. We'll have to see how he does next time. Another good one and he may get the call.

You have to wonder what's in it for him: he's been in the league since 1986; he's won 269 games; he won a World Series with the Phillies in 2008 (at the tender age of 45 ;)); and according to Baseball-Reference.com, he's grossed over $82M in his career. Interestingly, his salary was a mere $60.000 with the Cubs in his rookie season. http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/m/moyerja01.shtml

Villanueva's getting the nod for Friday's game against the Angels. Cecil fared poorly against a tough Angels' lineup last night.

[pEte fiSt iN Ur fAce]

Lind with a nice comeback last night: two dingers and four ribbies.

All eyes on Alvarez's elbow today. My guess is it isn't gonna be pretty.

Along those lines, I haven't heard much chatter about Romero's woes. Is it mechanical or is he struggling through injury like everybody else? Man, he's been shaky this year, 8-2 record notwithstanding.

[pEte fiSt iN Ur fAce]

Alvarez (5-6, 4.15) looked great! 7 IP, 7 H, 1 ER and 3 KOs on only 80 pitches. My guess is they'll be working on a very tight pitch count from here on out.

Laffey will go tomorrow against CJ Wilson (9-4, 2.36). A tough way to finish off the series, though Wilson's last outing at Rogers Centre was quite poor.

Rasmus made a huge diving play in centre today: Flat-out, highlight reel stuff. If his play of late is any indication, Rasmus should be a perennial 25-30 HR, Gold Glove kind of player for the Jays. This is the year where he starts getting a little respect, rather than simply being labelled 'a head case with upside' like he was in STL.

[telyou]

I was at the game today and it got pretty loud.
The've officially hit the 1 million attendance mark in home game #37. Apparently the fastest since the early 2000s or so they said.
Did anyone else notice Rasmus taking Lawrie's bat?

[sonysnob]

^ it's nice to see the dome full again. Going to a game is so much more fun when the house is packed!

Does anybody else remember when the jays opened against Chicago a couple of years ago and the crowed cheered "f**k you Rios" everytime he came to bat? I think he went three for four that night.

[pEte fiSt iN Ur fAce]

Haha cool.

One thing I've noticed about Rogers Centre of late [and other venues as well] is that heckling is now considered anti-social behaviour. The attitude seems to be 'Just sit down and watch the game.' While I don't necessarily condone dropping the F-bomb at a ball game, Jays fans really need to up the edginess level somewhat.

Yeah, that's good news about attendance: 1.001.983 fans through 37 home games. That's approximately 27.000 per game. Over the course of a season that's about 2.2 million. That would be the most since 2008 when they drew 2.4 million. If the Jays manage to get into some meaningful games down the stretch [perhaps unlikely now] that number would be even greater.

BTW, are Rasmus and Lawrie sharing bats now? I love all the superstitious nonsense in baseball. It's one of the things that makes it so special.

[DrNest]

BTW, are Rasmus and Lawrie sharing bats now? I love all the superstitious nonsense in baseball. It's one of the things that makes it so special.

Me too. It adds to the interest level. For me I have to buy a hot dog from a specific vendor before each game I go to or else the Jays will lose. And I'm not even superstitious!

[pEte fiSt iN Ur fAce]

Along those lines, I haven't heard much chatter about Romero's woes. Is it mechanical or is he struggling through injury like everybody else? Man, he's been shaky this year, 8-2 record notwithstanding.

Here's a recent article on Ricky Ro. The author suggests it's arm fatigue, similar to what Halladay went through a few years back. http://www.tsn.ca/blogs/scott_ferguson/?id=399530

[pEte fiSt iN Ur fAce]

While the Jays don't have the luxury to do so, I'm sure they'd love to shut Romero down. There's almost no point to him going out there anymore. With the loss last night he's 8-3 with a 5.35 ERA. The wheels are off and his 'arm fatigue' needs to be dealt with.

David Pauley's also been really poor since coming over from the Angels. He's got a 9.95 ERA in 5 appearances since the trade. Again, the Jays aren't really in a position to be shutting down / releasing pitchers but I wouldn't be surprised to see him go.

In contrast, Laffey's been good since getting the call (0-0, 2.14 21 IP). Considering the state of the starting rotation, he should get plenty of opportunity to perform heading into the Dog Days of summer.

Moyer will be starting his second game for LV soon. If he does well, he'll likely get a chance to start in Toronto.

Cecil goes tonight. *fingers crossed*

[pEte fiSt iN Ur fAce]

AAA Las Vegas (47-37, 3rd)
Gomes .351 9 38
Thames .319 2 16
Hechevarria .314 6 56
Sierra .303 14 51

Beck 1-0 0.94

AA New Hampshire (32-49, 6th - last)
McDade .297 13 42

McGuire 4-9 6.22 *his numbers have improved over the past few weeks*

A Lansing (52-28, 1st)
Pillar .320 4 48 (31 SB)

Sanchez 7-0 0.63
Nicolino 3-1 1.74
Syndergaard 4-2 3.35

*The Midwest League is offensively challenged so the list of pitchers with great numbers in Lansing is too long to list. These three are the top prospects with the Lugnuts, however.

[pEte fiSt iN Ur fAce]

Cecil (2-1, 5.64) pitched pretty well last night. Lind looking good as well with a tater and 3 ribbies. Villanueva's up next.

Even in their current state, splitting with the Royals at home would be a let down. They really need three outta four.

The Jays are now 41-40. Last year at the same time they were 40-41 and were 45-47 at the All Star break. We'll see if they can eclipse that mark this year. Not much else to hope for at this point.

David Pauley's been sent down to LV...no surprise there. :slob:

[pEte fiSt iN Ur fAce]

Villanueva threw six shutout innings adding seven Ks. Janssen with his 11th save in 12 tries.

Everybody in the lineup had a hit. Encarnacion now has a ten game hitting streak.

Alvarez going Thursday night.

p.s. Moyer got smoked in his last outing. The jury's still out on him, especially with fill-ins like Laffey and Villanueva doing well.