PHILADELPHIA | Renaissance Plaza | 292 FT x2 & 195 FT x2 | 29 FLOORS x2 & 19 FLOORSx2

[summersm343]

http://planphilly.com/uploads/media_items/renaissance-plaza-update.0.447.4752.2274.752.360.c.jpg

Title: Renaissance Plaza
Project: 1,458 apartments, 90,000+ sqft of retail, structured parking, rooftop green space and pools, public green space
Architect: Alesker & Dundon Architects
Developer: Waterfront Renaissance Associates
Location: 400 N. Columbus Blvd., Philadelphia, PA
Neighborhood: Penn's Landing
District: Center City
Floors: 5 tower: ~20 floors
Height: 5 towers: ~240 feet

Developer Waterfront Renaissance Associates plans to build a 1,458-unit, four-tower residential and retail complex at the corner of Columbus Boulevard and Spring Garden Street.

The tallest two of the four towers of Renaissance Plaza would rise 426 feet, the other two 227 feet. The shorter towers would be more than double the 100-foot height limit established in the Central Delaware Waterfront Master Plan, the city's long-range plan for the redevelopment of the Delaware River waterfront, between Oregon and Allegheny Avenues.

But the Philadelphia City Planning Commission, which must approve plans of development for projects within the Central Delaware, has the power to grant exceptions to the height limits.


The master plan calls for ground-floor retail, and the proposal for the 5.29 acres at 400 North Columbus Boulevard includes more than 90,000 square feet of it, Grigos said. The master plan calls for public open space, and this development would have green areas that all Philadelphians – complex residents or not – can use. The project would be built to the highest LEED standard attainable, and include a green roof with swimming pools.


Link to article:
http://planphilly.com/1458-unit-four-tower-residential-and-retail-complex-proposed-former-world-trade-center-site

[dagobert]

Hmm, I guess the design is supposed to pay homage to the best of Value Engineered crap high rises of the 1960s/70s era.

[colemonkee]

Oh no! Are those green pitched roofs on top of 60's commie block towers? This is adding insult to injury! Love the scale - and the massing isn't bad - but the design couldn't be worse if it punched every passersby in the face.

[volguus zildrohar]

For those unaware this design is replacing the failed World Trade Square project that's been in the air since the late 80s.

You can see that's it a modified version of the previous one:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/c/ca/World_Trade_Square_Philadelphia.jpg
en.wikipedia.org

[Busy Bee]

This is laughably bad. I love the density, but this design is right out of some 1977 issue of Architectural Record.

[SkyscrapersOfNewYork]

They look like projects... definitely not worth for Philly's skyline.

[summersm343]

if this project does get approved, you can bet this WILL NOT be the final design. the planning commission will make sure of that.

[Wheelingman04]

it sure does look bland and just pathetic but the original rendering is usually changed numerous times before construction. I have a good amount of faith this will be changed for the better.

[LMich]

Wow, the design is just plain bad even down to the massing, if you ask me. The slopping roofs on the podia are the rotten cherry on top, if you ask me.

I actually thinking something thinner and even "stepped" up or down to or from the river would look way better, something to break up the massing of the tower.

[Kidphilly]

Wow, the design is just plain bad even down to the massing, if you ask me. The slopping roofs on the podia are the rotten cherry on top, if you ask me.

I actually thinking something thinner and even "stepped" up or down to or from the river would look way better, something to break up the massing of the tower.

agree

[Kidphilly]

http://blog.philadelphiarealestate.com/a-400-foot-high-rise-at-400-n-columbus-blvd-not-so-fast-says-planning-commission/

[SkyscraperGuru]

I read the entire length of Kidphilly's post. I'm confident that this will get built dispite the silly comitee.

[Cro Burnham]

This has about as much chance of being developed as dookie has of smelling good.

This thread should already be in the "never built - not remotely visionary" section.

Time to move on now.

[SkyscraperGuru]

No need to be pessimistic.

It's not over till the fat lady sings.

[Cro Burnham]

not pessimistic, just realistic.

[hammersklavier]

The "developer" has never developed a thing in his life, has already been sitting on this lot for 20+ years, and prefers to get into litigation with the NAs rather than actually, you know, building.

Snowballs in hell have better chances than this thing.

I hope the Planning Commission consigns this to the dustbin quickly and painlessly.

[summersm343]

Article on this today from Philadelphia Real Estate Blog

http://blog.philadelphiarealestate.com/occa-hears-plans-for-central-delaware-waterfront-renaissance/

[SkyscraperGuru]

I don't know what to think of the article; it seems they aren't denying it anymore.

But are they saying "Okay"?

[summersm343]

I don't know what to think of the article; it seems they aren't denying it anymore.

But are they saying "Okay"?

It seems there is A LOT of people who are supporting this project. That is good news :banana:

Let's just hope they push the developers to produce some new renderings and new designs... these designs aren't too pretty looking

[summersm343]

Article on this from Naked Philly

http://nakedphilly.com/old-city/could-renaissance-plaza-come-to-the-delaware/

[summersm343]

Found a new render for this... still no redesign.

http://gingert.net/images/philadelphia-renaissance-03.jpg
http://planphilly.com/eyesonthestreet/2012/10/03/dagspace-plans-vs-projects/

[Jelly Roll]

Don't hate it but that green roof is ugly and needs to be changed.

[summersm343]

Don't hate it but that green roof is ugly and needs to be changed.

Honestly, with some slight design changes (like color of the buildings) and a reworking of the rooftops I could dig this design.

[Flyers2001]

Article on this from Naked Philly

http://nakedphilly.com/old-city/could-renaissance-plaza-come-to-the-delaware/

There were some good comments at the bottom of the article.

This 100ft. limit they want to put on buildings by the waterfront is ridiculous. Cities that are super successful like New York and Chicago have some awesome buildings with spectacular height right along the waterfront. Some of the proposed high rises for Chicago are amazing right on the water. Philly needs to stop over-governing and allow progression.

Trump Tower dead, Bridgeman View dead, Sugar House should be dead, World Trade dead and though the design suffers the idea will probably be dead.

Last I read there was no height limit at this particular lot.

[iheartphilly]

Just another utilitarian design. There's no architectural standouts to distinguish this from another large rectangle edifice in the sky.

[Aaamazarite]

The sleeper has awakened

http://planphilly.com/uploads/media_items/cdag-1.81.0.2042.978.752.361.c.png

http://planphilly.com/articles/2013/07/12/new-renaissance-plaza-shorter-greener

[Flyers2001]

from 440 to 240. Awesome! :hell:

[summersm343]

This is more realistic for getting through the NIMBY's on the waterfront. The last project wouldn't have happened, and we all know that. Glad they were able to downsize it to build something once and for all on this lot.

Seems to be 5 towers now instead of 4.

[summersm343]

Here is the site plan

http://philly.curbed.com/uploads/renaissance%20plaza2-thumb.png

[dc_denizen]

don't like the name - Philadelphia does not need a 'renaissance', the city is doing just fine and growing pretty well. this seems kind of detroitish.

Otherwise, great project.

[Flyers2001]

The scary thing is they want to build it in phases. Financing for building 1 is there and they are confident in building the first 2 buildings together, but it always becomes risky after that.

I would love to see the final 2 buildings that were proposed at Waterfront Square to be done. There is so much residential being added in the one mile stretch around Spring Garden and Columbus Blvd. Retail is going to be needed.

[hammersklavier]

So sez they.

Frankly, I wouldn't be surprised if twenty years down the road this property is the last undeveloped lot left on the waterfront. Nothing I've seen from the developer profile gives me confidence they can do this...

[summersm343]

Article about this:

http://www.philly.com/philly/classifieds/real_estate/New_housingretail_plan_floated_for_Delaware_River_waterfront.html

[summersm343]

Another redesign of this:

http://planphilly.com/uploads/media_items/renaissance-plaza-update.0.447.4752.2274.752.360.c.jpg

Back to four towers now, tallest two towers are 292 feet, shorter two are 195 feet.

Article here
http://planphilly.com/articles/2013/11/15/more-changes-to-renaissance-plaza-proposal

[phillyskyline]

It would be nice if it actually came to fruition and give WFS some company. Too bad these guys have zero credibility.

[Plokoon11]

Why is there such and issue with the waterfront on the Delaware? What is wrong with the people?

[Insoluble]

Why is there such and issue with the waterfront on the Delaware? What is wrong with the people?

This is a legitimate questions, but just FYI: if the Delaware waterfront all of a sudden was zoned CMX 6 with a FAR of 10 billion and there was 100% unanimous community support for this project and all legal/zoning issues were removed, the project would still never stand a chance in hell. The "developers" are a complete joke. This project should in no way shape or form be confused with an actual legitimate proposal. I predict they will continue to occasionally release new half a$$ed renderings until they are able to find a hapless fool willing to pay them 10 times too much for the property.

[summersm343]

The renderings of the base look phenomenal. BUILD IT!

http://planphilly.com/uploads/media_items/renaissance-plaza-1.752.581.s.png

http://planphilly.com/uploads/media_items/renaissance-plaza-2.752.581.s.png

http://planphilly.com/uploads/media_items/renaissance-plaza-3.752.581.s.png

http://planphilly.com/articles/2013/11/15/more-changes-to-renaissance-plaza-proposal

[Flyers2001]

http://philadelphia.cbslocal.com/2013/11/19/phila-planning-commission-oks-1300-apartment-complex-for-penns-landing/

Approved by Philly Planning Commission, but construction would start till 2015.

[summersm343]

Article on this today:

http://www.bizjournals.com/philadelphia/blog/real-estate/2014/04/massive-apartment-complex-proposed-for-former.html

A bunch of renderings on this from Alesker & Dundon

http://www.aleskerdundon.com/sites/aleskerdundon.com/files/cm326_-_scheme_g.jpg

http://www.aleskerdundon.com/sites/aleskerdundon.com/files/cm326_-_scheme_g_full.jpg

http://www.aleskerdundon.com/sites/aleskerdundon.com/files/cm402_-_scheme_g_p4.jpg

http://www.aleskerdundon.com/sites/aleskerdundon.com/files/cm399_-_scheme_g.jpg

http://www.aleskerdundon.com/sites/aleskerdundon.com/files/c13_-_scheme_g.jpg

http://www.aleskerdundon.com/sites/aleskerdundon.com/files/c10_-_scheme_g.jpg

http://www.aleskerdundon.com/sites/aleskerdundon.com/files/cm2_-_scheme_g.jpg

http://www.aleskerdundon.com/sites/aleskerdundon.com/files/c11_-_scheme_g.jpg

http://www.aleskerdundon.com/sites/aleskerdundon.com/files/c14_-_scheme_g.jpg

http://www.aleskerdundon.com/sites/aleskerdundon.com/files/c12_-_scheme_g.jpg

http://www.aleskerdundon.com/portfolio/renaissance-plaza

[summersm343]

Article on this today:

http://www.bizjournals.com/philadelphia/blog/real-estate/2014/04/massive-apartment-complex-proposed-for-former.html

A bunch of renderings on this from Alesker & Dundon

http://www.aleskerdundon.com/portfolio/renaissance-plaza

[Busy Bee]

^I wish I could say this was getting better but it just looks like textbook blah. Save for a few minor details it looks like it could have been proposed in 1980.

[summersm343]

^I wish I could say this was getting better but it just looks like textbook blah. Save for a few minor details it looks like it could have been proposed in 1980.

While the towers are ugly, this development would be transformative for the area if built.

[buildup]

Looking at the more detailed renderings, build the 2 south towers. They are the better looking ones of the group. Combine the other 2 towers into something much taller.

[Cro Burnham]

*sigh*

Our annual PR yelp by Carl Marks Co (who the fk are they anyway?) to remind us of their fictional relevance in the Philly (or any) real estate scene.

When will they just flip the damn property to spare us decades more goofy proposals?

This . . . is shitpile hallucination good description? . . . is about as transformational as my left ass cheek.

[Insoluble]

*sigh*

Our annual PR yelp by Carl Marks Co (who the fk are they anyway?) to remind us of their fictional relevance in the Philly (or any) real estate scene.

When will they just flip the damn property to spare us decades more goofy proposals?

This . . . is shitpile hallucination good description? . . . is about as transformational as my left ass cheek.

Pretty much this. This thread is fun to read if only to compare the ridiculous renderings that come out every year or two. And of Course PhilaPhilia has some of the back story on Carl Marks Co.'s previous proposal for this lot: http://philaphilia.blogspot.com/2011/09/dead-ass-proposal-of-week-september-1st.html

[josef]

This has the aesthetic of a housing project for rich people, complete with shady inner courtyard.

[Flyers2001]

Many projects with renderings as "blah" and uninspiriling like this have turned out better than originally thought. While the design may not be the best, this would indeed make a huge mark on the waterfront and start to connect the huge developments that are taking place along Del Ave.

There is a good amount of town homes being completed behind this site and about 1/2 mile south of the site. This projects ground floor retail would have a huge chance to be successful with the amount of people moving to the area and the lack retail close by.

[mmikeyphilly]

Many projects with renderings as "blah" and uninspiriling like this have turned out better than originally thought. While the design may not be the best, this would indeed make a huge mark on the waterfront and start to connect the huge developments that are taking place along Del Ave.

There is a good amount of town homes being completed behind this site and about 1/2 mile south of the site. This projects ground floor retail would have a huge chance to be successful with the amount of people moving to the area and the lack retail close by.

How many times have we "looked forward to having this built?" Please surprise us and show us the "wolf" will ya? It's not even funny anymore.

[mmikeyphilly]

*sigh*

Our annual PR yelp by Carl Marks Co (who the fk are they anyway?) to remind us of their fictional relevance in the Philly (or any) real estate scene.

When will they just flip the damn property to spare us decades more goofy proposals?

This . . . is shitpile hallucination good description? . . . is about as transformational as my left ass cheek.

Well said Cro! I couldn't have said it better. I can think of 10 clichés off the top of my head every time they come out with a new version of their "renderings".
1. S**t or get off the pot was my first thought,
2. Seeing is believing, and the other 8 are censored type phrases, but you get the idea. :haha:

[Flyers2001]

How many times have we "looked forward to having this built?" Please surprise us and show us the "wolf" will ya? It's not even funny anymore.

Why don't you tell us how many times "you" have looked forward to this being built.

[mmikeyphilly]

Why don't you tell us how many times "you" have looked forward to this being built.

Flyers2001, I truly apologize. I didn't mean for it to come off like I was "attacking" you for your enthusiasm. After reading the post again, I sound mean. But I'm not, really. Again, please accept my sincerest apology?
What I was trying to express, was that this developer has been around for not years, but decades with this project. In and out of the courts, etc. and lately decided "again" to focus on Camden for a World Trade Center?!? I just wish the developer could get their act together, and stay focused on getting this moving forward, once and for all. (Flyers2001 :cheers:)

[Flyers2001]

Flyers2001, I truly apologize. I didn't mean for it to come off like I was "attacking" you for your enthusiasm. After reading the post again, I sound mean. But I'm not, really. Again, please accept my sincerest apology?
What I was trying to express, was that this developer has been around for not years, but decades with this project. In and out of the courts, etc. and lately decided "again" to focus on Camden for a World Trade Center?!? I just wish the developer could get their act together, and stay focused on getting this moving forward, once and for all. (Flyers2001 :cheers:)

No issues, I understand. I wonder how developers could keep spending the money for renderings and licenses and do nothing with the land. Seems like such a waste of energy, money and time.

[mmikeyphilly]

No issues, I understand. I wonder how developers could keep spending the money for renderings and licenses and do nothing with the land. Seems like such a waste of energy, money and time.

I know, they're possibly using those costs as a tax write off so they don't have to take a beating on the land taxes? Who knows? Nice to see you Flyers2001;)

[summersm343]

Article about this.

No set date for construction yet. Financing is being sought now.

http://planphilly.com/articles/2014/07/14/more-parking-none-of-it-visible-for-renaissance-plaza

[Kidphilly]

Article about this.

No set date for construction yet. Financing is being sought now.

http://planphilly.com/articles/2014/07/14/more-parking-none-of-it-visible-for-renaissance-plaza

Is it just me or on the street level this actually looks decent

[summersm343]

Is it just me or on the street level this actually looks decent

Agree. It would really do wonders for the area if this ever got off of the ground.

[Insoluble]

This new rendering is probably the best looking one they've released for this site in the past 20 years! Who knows, next year's rendering may be even better. Meanwhile the developer continues to remain a complete joke incapable of getting anything done. I'm hoping they prove me wrong since this much density would be terrific for the waterfront, but I'm still thinking that the best case scenario is that land value appreciates enough around there for them to finally flip the property to a competent developer.

[summersm343]

Article about this going before the ZBA:

Looks like the taller towers are 31 floors each and the shorter towers are 21 floors each

http://www.phillyliving.com/blog/2014/07/24/massive-renaissance-plaza-project-seeks-zba-approval-today/

[Flyers2001]

With 205 Race and One Water Sq. Progressing it might finally be the time to push ahead with this project. We will soon find out if the developer is real and committed to this project.

[cafeguy]

So... with 205 race, with this one going up, with the townhomes built behind it, and the big one next to the bridge.... has there ever been anything proposed for the big lot in the middle of all this? The one between callowhill and vine?

[Insoluble]

So... with 205 race, with this one going up, with the townhomes built behind it, and the big one next to the bridge.... has there ever been anything proposed for the big lot in the middle of all this? The one between callowhill and vine?

None of those have actually started to go up yet though. The proposal by the bridge (Is that still being called Marina View?) and 205 Race have been dragging along in the design phase and have gone through several redesigns without any sort of start date, though I'm not ready to write them off completely. Renaissance Plaza on the other hand should not in any way be confused with a serious proposal. The best case scenario is that the current "developer" sells the property to someone who will actually do something with it.

As for the lot between Callowhill and Vine, I'm not sure if there are any current proposals for that. I feel like there was one during the last boom (maybe trump Tower or Bridgeman's View?) The unfortunate fact is that there is a lot of developable land along the Delaware and the track history for successful large scale development has not been good. The only things to actually get developed in the last boom were Sugarhouse (not even phase 1, the "interim phase" ) and the first few Waterfront Square buildings (they were never able to finish the whole development.) As much as I'd love to see the Delaware waterfront fill up and densify, I totally understand the reluctance of developers to take the plunge given the history. That plus the obviously bogus proposals like Renaissance Plaza which keep large plots of land as vacant lots for DECADES.

It's frustrating as hell, but it will happen sooner or later. There's so much positive momentum in the city, it's only a matter of time before it spills over onto the water front.

[cafeguy]

None of those have actually started to go up yet though. The proposal by the bridge (Is that still being called Marina View?) and 205 Race have been dragging along in the design phase and have gone through several redesigns without any sort of start date, though I'm not ready to write them off completely. Renaissance Plaza on the other hand should not in any way be confused with a serious proposal. The best case scenario is that the current "developer" sells the property to someone who will actually do something with it.

As for the lot between Callowhill and Vine, I'm not sure if there are any current proposals for that. I feel like there was one during the last boom (maybe trump Tower or Bridgeman's View?) The unfortunate fact is that there is a lot of developable land along the Delaware and the track history for successful large scale development has not been good. The only things to actually get developed in the last boom were Sugarhouse (not even phase 1, the "interim phase" ) and the first few Waterfront Square buildings (they were never able to finish the whole development.) As much as I'd love to see the Delaware waterfront fill up and densify, I totally understand the reluctance of developers to take the plunge given the history. That plus the obviously bogus proposals like Renaissance Plaza which keep large plots of land as vacant lots for DECADES.

It's frustrating as hell, but it will happen sooner or later. There's so much positive momentum in the city, it's only a matter of time before it spills over onto the water front.

Pretty sure 205 race (early 2015), marina view (Fall 2014), and Renaissance (early 2015) all have start dates at the moment. All three have recently gone through the review committee, neighborhood discussions, redeisgns, etc and appear to finally be progressing...a process that certainly isn't free. The townhomes behind it that were just built, from what I know, are fully rented/sold. Sure, there is definitely a bad history there, but it looks like these three big projects are really pushing forward right now.

Along with sugarhouse came redevelopment of the large building across the street that has recording studios, and then the two large warehouses across from the waterfront square buildings (of which I heard have finally rebounded from lack of interest). One of those two buildings on the west side of collumbus is fully finished and rented while the other is almost finished construction. A shit ton of townhomes are coming in all along front street... some in the oddest of locations. The new performance space across from race street pier is finished. And sugarhouse is finally finishing phase 1.

There are recent plans for dense buildings to come to front and callowhill, front and spring garden, canal street development, delaware and fairmount... along with a bunch of other plans that have died but could be revived.

Conversions of old buildings are fully under way with newly built townhomes everywhere along front street... all we haven't seen after the recession hit is any large-scale new construction.My prediction is that if we get at least one of these larger projects to start... likely the marina view one, we are gonna see a domino effect as other developers gain confidence to build.

I think we are on the cusp of a big development movement between BF bridge, frankford ave, delaware, and second.

[Flyers2001]

Pretty sure 205 race (early 2015), marina view (Fall 2014), and Renaissance (early 2015) all have start dates at the moment. All three have recently gone through the review committee, neighborhood discussions, redeisgns, etc and appear to finally be progressing...a process that certainly isn't free. The townhomes behind it that were just built, from what I know, are fully rented/sold. Sure, there is definitely a bad history there, but it looks like these three big projects are really pushing forward right now.

Along with sugarhouse came redevelopment of the large building across the street that has recording studios, and then the two large warehouses across from the waterfront square buildings (of which I heard have finally rebounded from lack of interest). One of those two buildings on the west side of collumbus is fully finished and rented while the other is almost finished construction. A shit ton of townhomes are coming in all along front street... some in the oddest of locations. The new performance space across from race street pier is finished. And sugarhouse is finally finishing phase 1.

There are recent plans for dense buildings to come to front and callowhill, front and spring garden, canal street development, delaware and fairmount... along with a bunch of other plans that have died but could be revived.

Conversions of old buildings are fully under way with newly built townhomes everywhere along front street... all we haven't seen after the recession hit is any large-scale new construction.My prediction is that if we get at least one of these larger projects to start... likely the marina view one, we are gonna see a domino effect as other developers gain confidence to build.

I think we are on the cusp of a big development movement between BF bridge, frankford ave, delaware, and second.


I totally agree on the domino effect. The addition of the town homes is a big deal. There is essentially a neighborhood being built where very little residential exsisted. Its coming in phases, but as residential gets built there will also be a need for retail as there is very little in the vicinity. Projects like One Water Sq. and 205 race of a great opportunity to fill their ground floor retail quickly.

If these projects show quick success I have no reason not to believe, regardless of past history, in Renaissance or something of its magnitude being built in this location.

I said it before this area is going through a rapid change and its long over due. This is the one area that had so many proposals and potential that took the biggest hit from the crash. There may not be the grand proposal of a Bridgeman View or Trump Tower, but I feel the proposals are becoming more realistic.

[cafeguy]

I totally agree on the domino effect. The addition of the town homes is a big deal. There is essentially a neighborhood being built where very little residential exsisted. Its coming in phases, but as residential gets built there will also be a need for retail as there is very little in the vicinity. Projects like One Water Sq. and 205 race of a great opportunity to fill their ground floor retail quickly.

If these projects show quick success I have no reason not to believe, regardless of past history, in Renaissance or something of its magnitude being built in this location.

I said it before this area is going through a rapid change and its long over due. This is the one area that had so many proposals and potential that took the biggest hit from the crash. There may not be the grand proposal of a Bridgeman View or Trump Tower, but I feel the proposals are becoming more realistic.

Oh man... bridgeman's view....wow. That would have been out of this world. As much as I would have wanted that to happen... glad it didn't. If it did, there would have been NO WAY I could have afforded the home I recently bought in the neighborhood on my measly grad student stipend.

[summersm343]

Looks like the new parking variance was approved by the ZBA. The two taller towers are 31 floors and 293 feet tall. The two smaller towers are 21 floors and 199 feet tall.

http://www.phillyliving.com/blog/2014/08/04/zba-oks-ground-garage-waterfront-renaissance-project/

[Eigenwelt]

Looks like the new parking variance was approved by the ZBA. The two taller towers are 31 floors and 293 feet tall. The two smaller towers are 21 floors and 199 feet tall.


:shrug:

Nice looking ground floor and street level engagement, mediocre towers, and possibly the ugliest roofs I've ever seen. Those crown/rooftop atrocities makes the towers look like 30 story strip malls. And not even faux-classy strip malls, the truly crappy on-an-access-road-next-to-the-highway-in-the-middle-of-nowhere-Missouri-kind of strip mall.

[Flyers2001]

293 feet is not 400 like the original, but it's a decent height for the area. The height will look nice with water front sq towers and one water sq. Really growing if and when the new additions get done.

[summersm343]

Cool video of the Columbus Blvd frontage

http://vimeo.com/107172385

[Jawnadelphia]

^^ I like this a lot. Really cool.

I like the fake store names/ideas too ...
Vintage Vinyl on the corner... oh word!
All it needed was a hipster beer bar.

[Leviathant]

Apologies for the thread necromancy, but I came across an article from last June stating the property was up for sale (http://www.bizjournals.com/philadelphia/print-edition/2015/06/26/former-world-trade-center-site-up-for-sale.html).

After failing to get the World Trade Center up and running, Carl Marks & Co. switched gears in 2002 and decided to focus on having the 5.3-acre parcel developed as a large multifamily project called Renaissance Plaza. The property fronts the Delaware River at Columbus Boulevard and Callowhill Street.

The dense development is approved for 1,342 apartments in four buildings that range in height from 21 to 31 stories. Plans also include nearly 70,000 square feet of retail space, 653 parking spaces along with more than an acre of landscaped public plazas.

Mike Margolis, an investment broker with Newmark Grubb Knight Frank, has the listing. While there’s no official price on the property, it could go for an estimated $50,000 a unit.

“The market will tell us at the end of the day,” he said. “It always does.”

After all these decades, I think the market's trying to tell them something, but they're not listening.

With all the movement in the last couple of years, the video rendering up on Vimeo, and with One Water Street shooting up, I was kind of hoping this would actually happen, but it seems increasingly likely that this plot may be doomed to mediocrity for a few more decades.

[Knight Hospitaller]

Apologies for the thread necromancy, but I came across an article from last June stating the property was up for sale (http://www.bizjournals.com/philadelphia/print-edition/2015/06/26/former-world-trade-center-site-up-for-sale.html).



After all these decades, I think the market's trying to tell them something, but they're not listening.

With all the movement in the last couple of years, the video rendering up on Vimeo, and with One Water Street shooting up, I was kind of hoping this would actually happen, but it seems increasingly likely that this plot may be doomed to mediocrity for a few more decades.

Even if the spelling's different, it isn't surprising that Karl Marx isn't listening to the market.;)

[wanderer34]

It's a nice proposal. My only issue with it is height!!! If the proposal can crack 500+ ft, then it's a go for me. I'd love to see this become to fruition, and hopefully a WTC Phila can eventually follow!!!

[summersm343]

From Center City District Report: Maybe this is still alive?

RENAISSANCE PLAZA

DEVELOPER:
Carl Marks & Co.

LOCATION:
400 North Columbus Boulevard

SIZE:
1,900,000 sf

RESIDENTIAL UNITS:
1,358

START DATE:
2016

COMPLETION DATE:
TBD

STATUS:
Announced

INVESTMENT:
$800 Million

DESCRIPTION:
Carl Marks & Co. is developing a large residential project, Renaissance Plaza, on 5.3 acres that front the Delaware River
at Columbus Boulevard and Callowhill Street. Designed by Alesker & Dundon Architects, the dense project will include 1,342 rental
apartments in four multi-story buildings and 16 townhomes. Plans also include 69,710 sf of retail, 19,000 sf of office space, 600
parking spaces, and more than an acre of landscaped public space. The project will be built over four phases and seek LEED Gold
certification. The developer is committed to building Phase I and II, with other phases contingent on demand. The equity is in place
for Phase I and the developer is working on financing for Phases I and II. Parking for Phases I and II will be built during Phase I, with
Phase II construction starting once 50% of Phase I is complete. Construction should start in 2016, with Phase I taking 16 months.

http://www.centercityphila.org/docs/CCDevelopments2016.pdf

[Cro Burnham]

The fact that CCD has included this in their list of projects leads me to believe that the list is a wish list, not a realistic list.

[cafeguy]

The fact that CCD has included this in their list of projects leads me to believe that the list is a wish list, not a realistic list.

If I were making a report where I wanted CC to look great, I certainly would include every single project that isn't officially dead.

[1487]

If I were making a report where I wanted CC to look great, I certainly would include every single project that isn't officially dead.

exactly, this is called REACHING. To say the least. Which is why you can't take their status reports too seriously. They are major manipulators of data when they are trying to create a narrative.

[cafeguy]

exactly, this is called REACHING. To say the least. Which is why you can't take their status reports too seriously. They are major manipulators of data when they are trying to create a narrative.

which isn't a bad thing, but its important to remember.

[McBane]

I see these snippets from the CCD report posted by Summers in nearly all the threads but most of this info is outdated. I appreciate the updates Summers, but I think these snippets are pretty irrelevant. The most current, publicly available information regarding every project in Philly is....here.

EDIT: Sorry I'm a little cranky. Seeing new postings in threads of near-dead and forgotten projects raises my hopes and then when I see this meaningless CCD booster crap on here, I get all deflated.

[Parkway]

I just took a property final so all of these TBD start and end dates bring this to mind, "no interest is good unless it must vest, if all, not later than twenty-one years after some life in being at the creation of the interest."

Basically if you can't give me a solid timeline I'm not going to put much stock in your perpetual proposal.

[3rd&Brown]

I feel like this thread should be locked.

This development by this developer is never going to happen.

They've been talking about it for what, 20 years?

Give me a break. Let this thread die the death it deserves.

[Knight Hospitaller]

I just took a property final so all of these TBD start and end dates bring this to mind, "no interest is good unless it must vest, if all, not later than twenty-one years after some life in being at the creation of the interest."

Basically if you can't give me a solid timeline I'm not going to put much stock in your perpetual proposal.

Bringing up the rule against perpetuities 21 years after i graduated from law school is cruel and unusual punishment.

[Philly Fan]

I just took a property final so all of these TBD start and end dates bring this to mind, "no interest is good unless it must vest, if all, not later than twenty-one years after some life in being at the creation of the interest."

Ahhhh, the rule against perpetuities--brings back memories of first-year Property class (many, many years ago). :rolleyes:

[Philly Fan]

Bringing up the rule against perpetuities 21 years after i graduated from law school is cruel and unusual punishment.

Ha! I posted my own little RAP tribute, and then I saw yours. :P

Here's to fun times in law school. :cheers:

[Knight Hospitaller]

Ha! I posted my own little RAP tribute, and then I saw yours. :P

Here's to fun times in law school. :cheers:

:cheers: ... and to peppercorns of consideration, fertile octogenarians and precocious toddlers, et al.

[Philly Fan]

:cheers: ... and to peppercorns of consideration, fertile octogenarians and precocious toddlers, et al.

Yeah, but what about the Rule in Shelley's Case? :yuck:

[Knight Hospitaller]

Yeah, but what about the Rule in Shelley's Case? :yuck:

Largely for Canadians these days, I hear. :cool:

[Parkway]

Thankfully I never have to think about it again until some punk-ass law student cracks wise about it on an internet message board. I am about to drink many, many, beers.

I did call the unborn widow the "Hefner Rule" in class.

[Koernerstr32]

I feel like this thread should be locked.

This development by this developer is never going to happen.

They've been talking about it for what, 20 years?

Give me a break. Let this thread die the death it deserves.

Not when moderators bring it back to life after such compelling info from the report.

[boxbot]

Yeah, but what about the Rule in Shelley's Case? :yuck:

Oh, god. Are we all lawyers? That would explain a lot of the fighting.

[Philly-Drew]

:deadthread:

[Philly Fan]

Oh, god. Are we all lawyers? That would explain a lot of the fighting.

Yes, it's true. Deep down we are ALL lawyers--even those who never went to law school.

:uhh:

:runaway:

[hammersklavier]

What's "law school"?

[Leviathant]

A new sign with an old rendering went up recently on the corner of the property.
http://i.imgur.com/wFh84Rn.jpg

With the Durst Organization buying up everything across the street, maybe this one still has legs.

[jjv007]

And the proposals continue. We were supposed to have a whole new district anchored by Bridgeman's View Tower by now lol. Waterfront development and the city just do not gel for some reason. Only the Waterfront Square Towers have panned out in recent memory.

[City Wide]

And the proposals continue. We were supposed to have a whole new district anchored by Bridgeman's View Tower by now lol. Waterfront development and the city just do not gel for some reason. Only the Waterfront Square Towers have panned out in recent memory.


What the water front needs is trump/dump tower. Then everything would be perfect. Bring back that hope and a prayer.

[Groundhog]

And the proposals continue. We were supposed to have a whole new district anchored by Bridgeman's View Tower by now lol. Waterfront development and the city just do not gel for some reason. Only the Waterfront Square Towers have panned out in recent memory.

Even Waterfront Square didn't have enough demand to be completed.

[jjv007]

Even Waterfront Square didn't have enough demand to be completed.

haha true

[Mr Saturn64]

Even Waterfront Square didn't have enough demand to be completed.

I think that's just part of the city's general westward movement. Back in the distant past the center of the city was Old City, then later it became East Market, then it was the area west of Market, and now it's moving to around the Schuylkill.

What the water front needs is trump/dump tower. Then everything would be perfect. Bring back that hope and a prayer.

Make the Delaware Great Again!

[jsbrook]

I think that's just part of the city's general westward movement. Back in the distant past the center of the city was Old City, then later it became East Market, then it was the area west of Market, and now it's moving to around the Schuylkill.



Make the Delaware Great Again!

No, it's because few want to live next to highways or cut off from the rest of the city by hellish I-95 and Columbus Boulevard. I bet residential adjacent to the planned park cap between Chestnut and Walnut will be successful. That cap is reputed to be about 5 years away. 2.5 years in the design/engineering phase and 2.5 years for construction. I could otherwise see some demand where the area east of I-95 is wide enough for a self-contained neighborhood. But I think it's still a niche market.