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M II A II R II K
Oct 7, 2013, 4:49 PM
Proposal will make Downtown Pittsburgh core totally bus-free


October 4, 2013

By Jon Schmitz

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Read More: http://www.post-gazette.com/stories/local/neighborhoods-city/proposal-will-make-downtown-pittsburgh-core-totally-bus-free-706169/


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The plan, backed by Allegheny County Executive Rich Fitzgerald and the city's presumptive mayor-to-be, Bill Peduto, would relocate routes and stops toward the edges of the Golden Triangle, creating what Mr. Fitzgerald called "a zone in the core of Downtown that is bus-free."

- Mr. Peduto said he envisions a circular route pattern using wider streets toward the edges of Downtown rather than having buses coming from four different directions and turning around in the middle of town. "If you're doing that you can actually make it so that all destinations in Downtown would only be a few blocks away. You could actually get people closer to where they are going," he said. Mr. Fitzgerald acknowledged that some riders might have a longer walk to their destinations. "Bus service into Downtown Pittsburgh is not going to be a door-to-door operation. You may have to walk a couple of blocks. Downtown is very walkable," he said. A revised routing system would also seek to take advantage of the Light Rail Transit system, which is free Downtown, to move bus riders from the fringes to their destinations.

- Mr. Fitzgerald said Downtown building and business owners have been pushing for relocation of bus routes and stops for years to ease traffic congestion and eliminate crowding on sidewalks in front of their buildings. "It's not just the buses, it's the bus stops" that are perceived as a problem, he said. The proposal has broad support in the Downtown business community and is backed by the Pittsburgh Downtown Partnership and Allegheny Conference on Community Development, Mr. Fitzgerald said. Ken Zapinski, a senior vice president at the Allegheny Conference, said bus circulation Downtown "has been an issue of interest for the conference for 20 years." "This is the right time to find the most efficient and effective way to move bus traffic Downtown," he said. "It's our belief that the existing circulation pattern is not optimal."

- "Do they realize it's going to stop people from shopping in town?" asked a woman from East Liberty, who declined to give her name. "People are not going to want to walk four or five blocks." "I think it might be a good idea, cutting down on the people standing and waiting for buses," said Kimberly Bluming of McKees Rocks, as she waited for a bus on Fifth near Smithfield. She said she wouldn't mind a longer walk, "but there are people who are unable to walk who depend on the buses."

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Nouvellecosse
Oct 7, 2013, 9:19 PM
How about leave the buses, and make the downtown core totally CAR free? Much more effective if they're trying to reduce congestion.

M II A II R II K
Oct 7, 2013, 11:07 PM
To make the downtown bus free there'd have to be underground LRT to replace them.

Crawford
Oct 8, 2013, 12:15 AM
I think this is a very bad idea, and probably motivated by attempt to remove the (heavily poor and black) bus riders from the downtown streetscape.

It isn't an uncommon move, though. They basically did this in Detroit. They called it a "new transportation hub", but it basically meant the buses were all relocated from the downtown core to the downtown fringe.

ardecila
Oct 8, 2013, 12:25 AM
Detroit has the (free) People Mover to get people closer to their destination within downtown, though. Plus, centralizing the terminus allowed for a large, enclosed, waiting area with heat/AC/bathrooms, and facilities for drivers between shifts. I'm sure the horror of (largely) poor, black bus riders factored into it, as well, but I think the losses for riders in convenience and time are matched by the gains in comfort. I dunno, maybe not.

We also did something similar in New Orleans by relocating the terminus of many Uptown buses to the Amtrak station (fringe) instead of Canal St (center). Riders can transfer to a streetcar, but it adds a lot of time to trips because the streetcar doesn't serve downtown particularly well or comprehensively. I'm sure part of the motivation is to justify the construction of the streetcar; the Amtrak station only sees 2 daily rail departures, plus Greyhound, so it wouldn't see much ridership otherwise. It sits in an isolated location separate from downtown by blocks of parking lots and highway ramps.

Plus, New Orleans style streetcars are slower than buses. They can't maneuver through traffic and they have frequent conflicts with left-turning cars.

fflint
Oct 8, 2013, 1:35 AM
To make the downtown bus free there'd have to be underground LRT to replace them.
Which Pittsburgh has. Literally.

I'm skeptical about this proposal--buses should not be barred from a downtown area just to please business owners who don't like having bus riders in front of their stores. On the other hand, if this could somehow be shown to produce better transit service overall it might be worth looking into.

miketoronto
Oct 8, 2013, 1:36 AM
This is very weird for Pittsburgh, as many of the bus riders are middle class.

But it does seem like a move to get the poor people out of sight. Again, not a good move in any insistence, but really not good in a city like Pittsburgh, where so many middle class people take the bus downtown.

Mojeda101
Oct 8, 2013, 2:29 AM
Something Downtown LA needs. We have more buses than Taxis.

mhays
Oct 8, 2013, 2:51 AM
Something Downtown LA needs. We have more buses than Taxis.

Being from Seattle, all I can think is "of COURSE there are more buses than taxis."

In Pittsburgh, if the concept is to create an "express" bus loop that will be reasonably close to everything and do it all faster, maybe that's good. If it's mostly about getting buses out of the way, that's bad.

OhioGuy
Oct 8, 2013, 3:10 AM
Perhaps this bus loop idea could be carried out similar to Chicago's elevated loop in the downtown core? CTA trains circle around downtown and most areas are within a few blocks walk of a station... though there are lots and lots of buses passing through the loop as well.

relnahe
Oct 8, 2013, 3:35 AM
I think this is a very bad idea, and probably motivated by attempt to remove the (heavily poor and black) bus riders from the downtown streetscape.

It isn't an uncommon move, though. They basically did this in Detroit. They called it a "new transportation hub", but it basically meant the buses were all relocated from the downtown core to the downtown fringe.

Agree totally. About a decade or so ago they tried doing this in Rochester NY but eventually most realized it was to try to hide minorities from scared white suburbanites.

relnahe
Oct 8, 2013, 3:37 AM
This is very weird for Pittsburgh, as many of the bus riders are middle class.

But it does seem like a move to get the poor people out of sight. Again, not a good move in any insistence, but really not good in a city like Pittsburgh, where so many middle class people take the bus downtown.

How sure are you that most of the riders are middle class that ride the buses downtown? What stats do you have?

miketoronto
Oct 8, 2013, 3:52 AM
How sure are you that most of the riders are middle class that ride the buses downtown? What stats do you have?

Downtown Pittsburgh has one of the highest transit modal shares for commuters of any downtown in the USA. Something like 50% or more of workers arrive by transit.
That right there is a huge middle class base utilizing the buses (the buses carry more people than the LRT).

I also have been to Pittsburgh often, and the transit riders are much more mixed than you will see in say Rochester, NY. It just does not seem as poor. There are for sure some poor people on the buses. But there is always a healthy dose of university students, and just other people that seem to be going out for a night on the town. I am sure there are routes that serve mostly poor areas. But overall the buses seem to attract a mix of people.

I never feel uneasy waiting for a bus in downtown Pittsburgh.
In downtown Rochester, even I can say that it was kinda freaky at times, and if I say that, then it means it is, because I don't get freaked by other people very easily. But in downtown Rochester, a number of the bus riders were aggressive, and were intimidating people walking on Main Street, etc.

But Pittsburgh just does not seem to have that problem.

Brandon who is on this forum. He also lived in Pittsburgh for a while, and also found the transit system to be much more mixed and used by middle class people, than other cities in the rust belt.

fflint
Oct 8, 2013, 4:46 AM
....and if I say that, then it means it is....
This is miketoronto's thinking in a nutshell.

LMich
Oct 8, 2013, 7:58 AM
It isn't an uncommon move, though. They basically did this in Detroit. They called it a "new transportation hub", but it basically meant the buses were all relocated from the downtown core to the downtown fringe.

This simply isn't true. The Rosa Parks Transit Center is actually closer to the action than the previous "hub", which was Capitol Park, which until recently when the park was redone was also a major homeless camp. Times Square (i.e. Rosa Parks) is no more the fringe than Capitol Park, and the People Mover hub actually abuts the new transit center site.

As for Pittsburgh, I don't know enough about the downtown routes to know if this is good or bad. It'd seem to me that downtown is physically small enough that to push the buses to the edge wouldn't too negatively effect ridership. If it's simply to make the streets more friendly for automobiles, though, is it worth it? BTW, the the system feature a downtown hub?

Crawford
Oct 8, 2013, 12:01 PM
This simply isn't true. The Rosa Parks Transit Center is actually closer to the action than the previous "hub", which was Capitol Park, which until recently when the park was redone was also a major homeless camp. Times Square (i.e. Rosa Parks) is no more the fringe than Capitol Park, and the People Mover hub actually abuts the new transit center site.


I don't think any of this is true.

The previous Detroit bus hub was right on Campus Martius, which is the very heart of downtown. You can't get more central than Campus Martius. The buses stopped right where Compuware HQ currently sits.

The bus hub was relocated to the fringe, in part, because of loitering complaints from downtown law firms that surround Campus Martius. In addition, it was thought that the bus presence would stifle the redevelopment of the downtown core.

The presence of the People Mover is pretty much irrelevent to the bus hub. There is very little train-to-bus transfer activity, and they have totally different demographics and ridership patterns. But with the nearby People Mover, they could claim the fringe bus terminal is an "intermodal hub" and be more likely to qualify for federal dollars.

It used to be if you took a bus downtown, you would be in the very heart of the action, at Woodward & Campus Martius. Now you're dropped off in a back alley behind the Book Cadillac hotel. At least the new facility looks nice and is partially enclosed from the elements, though.

The Capitol Park location, BTW was a temporary location, because the new transit center was delayed. It was already post-relocation to the fringe.

Brentsters
Oct 8, 2013, 4:29 PM
It seems the P-G made a sensationalist, inaccurate headline. The presumed mayor-elect, Bill Peduto (very pro-transit, pro-bike) defended the visioning on Twitter saying it would improve accessibility by creating a circulator. Stops that require a 6-block walk would be cut to 3. Not that a bus is going to drop them off across the river on the North Side.

I'm not sure about it yet, but I do trust Peduto on matters like this. He seems to "get it." Downtown is very congested and many of the tight streets can't handle the busses that routinely gridlock. If the busses can be rerouted to improve service and reduce congestion then I'm for it. Also, this plan includes adding bike lanes to the de-congested streets.

AaronPGH
Oct 9, 2013, 9:43 PM
^ What Brentsters said. Peduto has clarified that it's going to be more of a bus loop downtown (not removing them completely) that stops buses from crisscrossing every street in existence. I can be on board with that, especially if it connects well with the subway LRT.

As a daily rider to work, I can also confirm what miketoronto said above. Downtown bus usage is very middle-class. Everyone uses it.

zilfondel
Oct 10, 2013, 5:48 AM
deleted my comment after reading some comments above

w0985465y
Oct 10, 2013, 11:20 AM
Actually I think this could be a good idea. Buses can be very superfluous and redundant. Sometimes people need to just walk that extra few blocks, and when they do it's actually much better for a city than when there are multiple bus routes intersect each other, especially when those routes turn around in the middle of the city.

It's pretty typical that the person saying "people won't want to shop downtown" is from the suburbs. Are you really that lazy that you can't walk around downtown?

Also, for people who actually need to get a bus from where they are to where they need to be because of old age or other problems, they should already be available. If they aren't, then maybe the cutting of the extra bus routes will free up some cash to implement that?