[Matthew]

So, this is how the Convention Center will get expanded and modernized? By letting an Atlanta Investment Group take over? This could be big and could change the brand of the hotel too? It seems the old 12 storey Hilton may not be for sale? Only the 18 storey Adam's Mark East Tower. Both are owned by Adam's Mark Hotels of St. Louis. If the owner of the largest downtown hotel is in charge of the convention center, you know they will push for more conventions and bigger conventions to fill rooms. They may also expand to bring in more conventions. I would like to see them expand by another 160,000 square feet! It will also be nice to add another hotel brand to downtown! Just think of what this deal could do for both downtown and convention spending in the city! Any expansion of the Convention Center should be done by HOK (the original 1960's architects). It would be nice to see the state's first convention center brought back to it's former glory and I think a 160,000 square foot expansion would do it!

By Victoria Cherrie
JOURNAL REPORTER

An Atlanta investment group is negotiating the purchase of the Adam's Mark Winston Plaza Hotel in downtown Winston-Salem in a deal that also calls for the group to manage the Benton Convention Center.

"This is critical to the future of the convention and tourism community in years to come," Tom Fredericks, the assistant city manager for recreation and parks, said yesterday. "Our future is in our hands here."

The city currently owns and operates the convention center.

Fredericks declined to say more about the negotiations, which are continuing.

Noble Investment Group LLC owns and manages numerous Marriott, Holiday Inn and Hilton hotels across the country, and has a history of public/private partnerships, according to its Web site.

Noble officials could not be reached for comment.

The Winston-Salem City Council could consider a deal with the investment group as early as its meeting Monday night, Fredericks said.

Mayor Allen Joines, who has been involved with the negotiations, also declined to discuss the proposal in detail.

"We are having discussions about a project that will significantly improve the community's ability to attract conventions to Winston-Salem," Joines said.

"The effort is to structure it so there is little financial impact on the city," he said.

There are two company-owned Adam's Mark hotels in North Carolina, one at 425 N. Cherry St. and another in Charlotte, said Randy Myers, a spokesman for the hotel chain. The convention center is around the corner from the Adam's Mark, on Fifth Street.

There are 23 other hotels in the Adam's Mark chain, eight of which were recently sold to Pyramid Advisers. The sale did not include the hotel in Winston-Salem.

Myers declined to discuss the property, which is worth $10.6 million, according to Forsyth County tax records. The hotel has 623 rooms and 26 luxury suites.

"As a privately held corporation, Adam's Mark does not release business results by hotel nor do we comment on whether or not a particular hotel may or may not be for sale," he said.

Though the details of the deal aren't yet known, city officials say there are several reasons for another company to take over the Adam's Mark and manage the convention center.

This fiscal year, the city of Winston-Salem is subsidizing the convention center with about $776,000 from its occupancy tax and general funds.

• Victoria Cherrie can be reached at 727-7283 or at vcherrie@wsjournal.com

[cityboi]

Hopefully the hotel won't down grade to a less upscale brand name because Adams Mark is an upscale brand name. It would be great if it became a Hyatt Regency hotel.

[yadkinv]

This is good news if the deal goes through? I had just commented on TwinCitys thread that there was finally some indication of expansion of the convention center (strangely quiet for so long), and that the city really needs another high rise hotel!

By the way, what is now the West Tower was formally a Hyatt, not Hilton. There was a Hilton hotel downtown at one time, but is now the Hawthorne Hotel ownned and operated by Wake Forest Medical School.

The best scenario would be for the West and East Towers to be divested into two different upscale hotels, one could remain Adams Mark (probably the East Tower; the original Adams Mark), and then to recruit another high-end hotelier to build a 20-25 story top of the line to serve a doubled in size convention center! Marriott would be OK, but my first choice would be a Wyndham!

[ejohnson]

I'm glad for W-S. (Little Charlotte) is always on the move :)

[49er]

The Adams Mark in Charlotte is big - 600 rooms, but its ghetto. Its hard for me to think of as upscale :) The one in downtown Winston is ok, a little dated but ok. Certainly in better shape than the one here. The Winston convention center is in desparate need of renovation. I was there last month for the nursery and tree expo, or whatever its called. It seems very very dated compared to most convention facilities.

With Raleigh upgrading to a new center, Charlottes center, and greensboro's facilities, Winston leaders probably see themselves quickly falling to the back of the pack.

A convention facility closer to Old Salem would make sense.

[cityboi]

Winston-Salem does see the need to be competitive. Even High Point is outshining the Twin City with its Showplace Convention Center. Because of the nature of W-S's "white collar" downtown with financial institutions and research, larger convention facilties in the downtown area would be a boon. Is there room for expanding the number of rooms at the Adams Mark? It would be nice to see Winston-Salem have a 900+ room hotel downtown.

Right now Charlotte and Greensboro commands the spotlight with hosting major conventions. Winston-Salem and Raleigh wants a share of that convention business as well.

[Matthew]

The 18 storey East Tower, also known as Winston Plaza Hotel is 603 rooms. It's the same number of floors and same number of rooms as the Charlotte hotel. It was last renovated in 2001.

I don't like Adam's Mark Hotels. They may be a top brand of luxury hotel, but all of the Adam's Marks I've been to haven't been that great. That's why I would like to see a brand change with major renovations. The hotel can be expanded to the east for about half a block. Adam's Mark owns the that property too, and I think they own it to expand in the future. The old Hyatt across the street could also be purchased and renovated. Both are currently owned by Adam's Mark Hotels and connected by a skybridge.

The old M.C. Benton Convention Center was the first in the state and is the oldest standing convention center. It's the work of architectural firm HOK. There were plans to expand the center to make it the largest in the state in 1996, but they required a large amount of tax money. Architects were hired in 1997 and plans were drawn up for a complete exterior remodel, systems upgrade and major expansion. In 1998 tax payers didn't support the expansion. In 2001, they used 2/3rds bonds to upgrade the building's systems, including HVAC. Also in 2001, the city considered selling the center, along with other city owned properties. It would place them back on the tax roles and private owners could do a lot more than the city can, bringing in conventions and in expansion. Greensboro's convention center is privately owned by a hotel operater and not the city. Now a hotel operator will run the Winston-Salem Convention Center, along with the tall tower hotel attached to it.

What Matt would do.
Split ownership. Sell half the convention center to Noble. Use the money from the sale to expand and renovate the building. Take the savings from split ownership and use them also towards expansion. Then give Noble the convention center with a 3 year tax break. By that time, Noble will have it's group in place to run the center and they will have some time to build a name for the expanded center and make it a profitable private operation. After the three years, it goes on the city's tax roles as a taxable privately owned property. This may call for the demolishion of the old Public Safety Building, which the city owns for government offices and is sitting half empty.

[49er]

Cities get big eyes sometimes. Charlotte is always trying to compete with other big cities in terms of amenities...downtown arenas, convention centers/hotels etc. Sometimes cities should just take their place in the scheme of things. It would make no sense for Winston to build the biggest convention center in the state.

I say renovate the current facility or shutter it and build something comparable to the cities size. Dont try to compete with other cities with taxpayer money.

And about Adams Mark, I totally agree. I think its a chain on its way down.

[cityboi]

I think what benefits Charlotte and Greensboro so well is location location location. Greensboro and Charlotte are on the I-85 corridor. The two cities are about halfway between Atlanta and Washington,DC There is closer access to an international airport in both cities. Both cities have a competitive number of hotel rooms within a two mile radius of the convention center. (Greensboro has the largest convention hotel between Atlanta and Washington DC with over 1,000 guest rooms.) Both Charlotte and Greensboro have arenas nearby. (The Greensboro Coliseum Complex is less than a mile away from the Koury Convention Center and it too has a large amount of convention space. 2 major hotels are also planned to be built adjacent to the coliseum property) (Charlotte will have a new uptown arena within walking distance to the convention center) When it comes to convention centers, the "if you built it they will come" saying isn't always true. There are alot a factors that makes a convention center sucessfully work which is why many cities like to shun away from using tax dollars to build them. I think an expansion of the Benton Convention Center in W-S makes sense but the market will determine if, when and by how much space the convention center will expand. Winston-Salem Should focus more on adding more hotel rooms within walking distance to the convention center but even the development of more hotels is market driven. The way you create a demand for more hotel development in downtown Winston-Salem is to add more attractions that will bring people downtown. A passenger rail hub would also help out. With exception to Charlotte, the other major NC cities just havent added many hotel rooms in the downtown area in years. The last time a hotel was built in the downtowns of Greensboro and Winston-Salem was in the early 1980s. I think Raleigh's will be successful simply because Raleigh is the state capitol.

[yadkinv]

I reiterate what I said above, but add now that I agree, the Adams Mark is not top of the line. I stayed there in W-S in November 2002, and it needs something? I still say double the size of the convention center using Old Salem as a drawing card for extracuricular activities as well as the Arts District, Unity Place, and the Theater District. Renovate the Adams Mark, and change chains. Sell the West Tower (former Hyatt) to another chain, and build a new 20-25 story hotel - I choose Wyndham.

[Matthew]

There are two more hotels on the way and the city is trying to build an MLS European Soccer Stadium and WSSU sports facility downtown, so it can join Charlotte and Raleigh as the state's "Major League" cities and allow WSSU to move up to the highest level of college sports. Even if MLS doesn't come, the stadium is still needed and will likely get built near historic Union Station transit center downtown. A site right at WSSU's main campus! Then there's the Warthogs baseball stadium proposal. It's still just a proposal, but it's a very active proposal. Winston-Salem is pushing for more hotel rooms in it's Center City and the biggest could reach 900 rooms, near the research park and proposed sports complex. Add in the existing six hotel buildings in the CBD, the bed and breakfasts and historic hotel conversions in Old Salem, and downtown Winston-Salem is a very attractive place for a convention! There's also Old Salem, Bethabara Park, Unity Place and other great near-by attractions. You can't stay at a luxury hotel built in 1836 in Charlotte or Greensboro for your convention, but you can in Winston-Salem. There's also the LJVM, along with it's hotels around 27th Street. Then there are all the bio-techs, research firms, Wake Forest, the financial and insurance companies that need a place for annunal meetings or presentations. It is a very good location and right at two interstates!

Should Winston-Salem have a 1,000,000 square foot convention center? No! Should Winston-Salem expand it's existing center? Yes! The last time Winston-Salem's convention center was expanded, it was the only real convention center in the Triad and Winston-Salem was a much smaller city, around 131,000 compared to an estimated 215,000 today. The current center is larger than Charleston's and Raleigh's, but I'm sure if you ask them, they will say theirs is too small. Raleigh is working to replace theirs now!

An expansion by 160,000 square feet, along with the space in the Winston Tower Hotel, would allow Winston-Salem to compete with cities of similar size, without over building. Winston-Salem has lost a few conventions due to it's small facility. A 160,000 square foot expansion would also be easy to do. Most, if not all, the land needed is already owned by the city and no major historic structures would be lost. Instead of a "cold" building, it needs to have retail built into it.

An architect named Tadao Ando was hired to explore building a small convention center with 250,000 square feet of meeting space, 50,000 square foot top floor ballroom, two small ballrooms and a 125,000 sqare foot exhibition space. It would have been a multi-storey building across from Old Salem, but today it's home to the Old Salem Visitor's Center. So, yes someone already thought of that, but you know someone would have built a 20 storey box hotel across from Old Salem for all the tourists to see. :yuck:

[cityboi]

North Carolina is a good convention state. I think Charlotte and Greensboro will always lead as the top convention destinations in the Carolinas, especially Charlotte because there are just so many things going on uptown and so many projects in the works. A trolley goes through the convention hotel and light rail is quickly coming. I-85 is the most important budiness interstate in NC because it links Atanta to Washington, DC. In Greensboro the convention goers can walk a few step to go shopping at Four Seasons Mall. the enclose connector (conecting the Koury Conventon Hotel with the mall) will still happen. Plus there are many restaurants nearby including a number of upscale restaurants. Greensboro will be at the crossroads of 3 and potenially 4 major interstate freeways (I-85 / I-40 / I-73 and the future I-785 which could become a shortcut traveling to Washington, DC. Another thing that will benefit Charlotte and Greensboro is that the two cities are on the main high speed rail corridor.

[49er]

An expansion is planned for the Charlotte Convention Center - but nothing will happen until the city realizes if the Westin has really increased business.

Here's an idea for Winston. Take a cue from Charlotte. Instead of renovating the beast, a new center was built. Now our old convention center will be an entertainment venue with a 10-12 screen movie theater and espn zone/hard rock cafe/Gameworks style places. Winston could recreate its current center as something different.

[cityboi]

I think id Winston-Salem did build a new one, it would likely have to be privately built. but that is a good idea 49er!

[Matthew]

Winston-Salem citizens are the best supporters of their downtown in the state. They may offer the money to build it, but I don't think the city wants to own it. Winston-Salem currently is trying it's best to remove property from it's name and add it back to the tax rolls. The property where the new condo and visual arts center on Trade street is being built was a former city property they sold to a developer. I think Winston-Salem wants this convention center sold or given to a private company.

There are no major convention centers in NC right now. All 5 cities seem to compete from the same small to mid-sized conventions! Greensboro has taken a few from Charlotte Winston-Salem has even taken a few from Greensboro. Marketing the facility is important! It's more important than the size of the facility. That's why this deal is so important! Charlotte and Greensboro's centers are well organized and have the right people leading them. Winston-Salem's is led by the same people who handle your water bill and operate the snow plows! :D You need people from the hospitality industry running it. I don't think you can build a new convention center in downtown Winston-Salem. You would have to demolish several city blocks of historic buildings, historic homes or high-rises. It's possible in the other four cities, but not Winston-Salem and these companies, building several corporate low-rise buildings in the CBD, aren't helping any at all. There is an opening in the state for a mega convention center, but I think Asheville should look into that! I think we could do it right and offer the right attractions to go with it. Winston-Salem wanted to, but I think after seeing problems in other major cities, Winston-Salem backed out.

I think Noble was once headquartered in Winston-Salem? They are one of the largest Asian owned hotel developers in the nation. It was moved from Winston-Salem to Atlanta because the owner's son went to school and took a job in Atlanta. I think they are also working on two other Marriott properties in Winston-Salem, including the location at the LJVM? This could be the reason they are taking such a strong intrest in Winston-Salem lately! Does anyone think they may move back to Winston-Salem? They are an award winning developer of Marriott and Hilton hotels, so don't be surprised if Winston Plaza becomes one of those two brands. It's still great to have locals, who are major players, wanting to get involved in the convention center! They want to bring it back to it's former glory! This is even better news than I thought!

[TwinCity]

It was just announced on Fox8 News that if this deal goes through, the Adam's Mark East Tower will be a 4-star Marriott Hotel and the West Tower will be an Embassy Suites and interior construction will start in June. No word on the convention center's construction yet.

[cityboi]

WoW Marriott seems to be interested in expanding its brand name in the downtown markets of North Carolina cities. If the the deal goes through both Greensboro and Winston-Salem will have an Embassy Suites hotel. Thats kind of unusual to have two upscale hotels with the same name brand like that in a market like the Triad.

[TwinCity]

Here is more information about the deal from today's paper:

http://www.journalnow.com/servlet/Satellite?blobcol=urlthumbpicture&blobheader=image/jpeg&blobkey=id&blobtable=MGImage&blobwhere=1031773695341&ssbinary=true
Under the deal, the hotel would manage Benton Convention Center.
(JOURNAL PHOTO BY DAVID ROLFE)

By Victoria Cherrie
JOURNAL REPORTER


City will consider proposal to renovate Adam's Mark
Atlanta company wants to turn hotel into Marriott Hotel and Embassy Suites


Noble Investment Group. of Atlanta, GA, is negotiating to buy the Adam's Mark Winston Plaza Hotel and manage the Benton Convention Center.
(JOURNAL PHOTO BY DAVID ROLFE)

It's Saturday afternoon in the west tower of the Adam's Mark Hotel downtown.

There are no employees at the checkout counter; the velvet seats in the Players lounge and the bar are empty. The gift shop with its near-empty shelves is closed.

City officials in Winston-Salem say they want more for the Adam's Mark property, which is bordered by Marshall, Trade and Fifth streets.

The hotel has two buildings or towers connected by a skywalk in the heart of the central business district where city leaders are trying to resurrect old buildings and lure residents and businesses to create a bustling pedestrian center.

On Monday night, the city council will consider an agreement with an Atlanta investment company that wants to turn the Adam's Mark into a 316-room Marriott Hotel, a 150-suite Embassy Suites and take over the management of the Benton Convention Center on Fifth Street.

http://www.journalnow.com/servlet/Satellite?blobcol=urlmainpicture&blobheader=image%2Fjpeg&blobkey=id&blobtable=MGImage&blobwhere=1031773695341&cachecontrol=0%3A31%3A30+6%2F8%2F13&ssbinary=true

Under the proposal, Noble Investment Group would commit $28million to buy and renovate the privately owned hotel and sign a 15-year lease with the city to manage its convention center starting in July. The buildings would undergo renovation that would include creating street-level retail space, possibly for coffee and doughnut shops, bistros and a sports bar.

The city is being asked to contribute $10 million, although a leasing arrangement and other details mean that the financing would ultimately have no significant effect on the city budget, officials said.

The city would agree to maintain the convention center at a cost of about $250,000 a year and would continue covering the center's operating losses, which total about $750,000 a year.

City officials have no specific projections of the economic effect of the project.

They argue, however, that the presence of nicer hotels would help Winston-Salem compete more effectively with larger cities in attracting conventions. That in turn would increase economic development downtown and generate more motel/hotel sales and property taxes.

Over time, the city might be able to reduce its subsidy to the center, officials say.

"The convention center's economic-development impact on downtown and the community is of highest priority," Tom Fredericks, the assistant city manager for recreation and parks, said. "This hotel project is critical to the future success of our community's convention and tourism industry."

Financing the hotel project

The city staff has spent the past two weeks carefully planning the city's financing of the project, which has surfaced at a time when the city faces a $7.7million gap in its 2004-05 budget.

Here's how the proposal would work:

Noble would buy the Adam's Mark, which is valued at about $21million, according to Forsyth County tax records.

The company would renovate the two buildings into separate hotels that would do business with the convention center. During renovations, one building would be closed while the other is under construction.

The city would buy the meeting space on the lower level of the Embassy Suites in the west tower for $10 million. The area has 13,000 square feet of meeting space and about 25,000 square feet of service space.

The city would finance the purchase through the issuance of $8 million in bonds or with a bank loan. The remaining $2million would come from repayments from the Adam's Mark owners who got a $3 million loan from the city for renovations in 1981.

The funds came from and are put back into a pool that must be used for economic development or improvements to low- or moderate-income areas.

The $2.3 million balance on the loan will be due once the hotel is sold, Fredericks said.

After buying the renovated meeting space, the city would lease it to the Embassy Suites, along with the grand pavilion ballroom for 30 years for a $600,000 annual payment.

At the end of 30 years, the city would then sell the space and ballroom to the Embassy Suites owner for $2 million.

The city would use the annual lease payments to pay off the $8 million loan.

That arrangement keeps the projects from becoming a burden to taxpayers, officials say.

"This is the only way that we could participate in this project," Mayor Allen Joines said.

In addition to the real-estate deals, the city would sign the contract with Noble for the company to manage the convention center.

As part of the contract, the city would continue to cover the operating losses at the convention center, provide the annual financing for maintenance, repair and equipment replacement and pay a $100,000 annual management fee.

Those costs would be paid for through the city's general and occupancy-tax funds, Fredericks said.

Before a contract is signed, the city and Noble would conduct a joint inspection, develop an improvement plan and budget, he said. Under the proposal, Noble would agree to a good-faith effort to hire the current staff of about 20 city employees at the convention center.

The staff members not hired by Noble could possibly be moved to comparable city jobs or be offered severance packages, he said.

"This will be a fresh start for our convention center," City Manager Bill Stuart said.

The result will be that the city will get out of a declining situation, he said.

"There isn't a downtown hotel today without some participation from city government," Fredericks said.

Noble has ties to the city

The city's staff says it is confident in doing business with Noble, a company with ties to Winston-Salem and experience with public/private partnerships in the Southeast.

Mitesh Shah, the president and chief operating officer for Noble, grew up in the city. He attended Wake Forest University, played on the tennis team and earned degrees in finance and economics.

Two years ago, his company began managing the Courtyard Marriott hotel near Hanes Mall. Last year, the company bought the Residence Inn by Marriott on North Point Boulevard for $2million and committed to $3million worth of renovations to the hotel, which is close to Wake Forest University and Sara Lee Corp.'s new headquarters for its branded apparel.

Shah declined to comment until after the city council meeting Monday night.

His company has participated in such major hotel projects as the $13 million Crowne Plaza renovation in Atlanta and the Hilton Garden Inn in Tampa, Fla. Last month, the Raleigh City Council agreed to Noble's $58million proposal - with $20million in public funds - for a four-star Marriott Hotel expected to help with the city's proposed $180 million convention center.

The action of the Winston-Salem council Monday is key to the project working. The council must approve the initial agreement and then separately approve each aspect of the deal before Noble completes the purchase of the Adam's Mark. The company has a contract on the property that will expire in March.

"We could wake up one morning in about three years and our facilities will be aged and declining," Fredericks said. "Without this, we would be on the bottom of the convention chain. Winston-Salem already struggles to get large groups to come to the city because the state's other major cities such as Greensboro and Charlotte offer better quality hotel and convention accommodations downtown.

"If there is something we can do to make us more competitive in the tourism and convention business, then I certainly want to hear what it is," said Deborah Conrad-Shrader, a Forsyth County commissioner who is a member of the Forsyth County Tourism Development Authority.

[yadkinv]

In today's Winston-Salem Journal, the deal passes the City Council with one, guess who, dissenting vote, but even he accompanied that vote with a positive comment. Wow, this is great!

Also, what a great idea 49er, raze that old outmoded convention center, and build a really attractive center to draw national conventions. It must be at least twice, nay thrice the size of the existing one. I find myself in a rare, if not first, slight disagreement with Matthew (not really), but I think W-S should pursue a highly aggressive national convention draw. W-S has some unique attractions to offer, already mentioned, and national conventions work here already such as the National Black Theater festival held every two years.

[49er]

Winston-Salem citizens are the best supporters of their downtown in the state.

Now Now Matt, I think a few other cities in NC might disagree.

I think its a great idea to split up the Adams Mark into two hotels of better quality. Embassy Suites isnt in any other downtown markets in North Carolina I dont believe? They're suburban in Charlotte.

[cityboi]

Embassy Suites is also suburban in Raleigh and Greensboro as well. They are typically 6-7 story hotels

[Matthew]

It looks like they are cutting back the number of rooms? This could be to expand convention facilities in the hotels? The two hotels now have almost as much convention space as the convention center! :D I am glad to see more than one hotel brand back in downtown Winston-Salem. With fewer rooms, that will help seal a deal for a 7-8 storey hotel at Unity Place.

The best way to tell city support for a downtown is: how willing the residents are to support downtown and give tax money to do it, if needed. Winston-Salem residents have passed every major tax request before them for downtown revitalization and were the major push behind what you see at Unity Place. The beautiful downtown neighborhoods made the push for improvements and restoration going back to 1949. According to the Westender, their efforts go back to the 1960's! Everything you see hapening downtown is the result of Winston-Salem residents. Even this project is being done by former Winston-Salem residents who still have strong ties to the area! I have watched citizens in the other 4 cities and even in my own city fight major downtown projects, ban development in some areas and vote out those who support major downtown projects. Winston-Salem voted in those who supported downtown in the last major election. Mayor Joines ran for office with big promises on Downtown Revitalization in the last election and he has delivered! All of the council is now pro-development (except for Robinson) and as a result of that election, many of the boards that review projects around the city are also pro-development. You don't see Winston-Salem trying to ban high-rise buildings/stadiums, vote down downtown projects or packing City Hall to stop downtown projects. You see them saying they support it.

[49er]

Regardless, I would come out and say that in terms of support, Charlotte is on par with or better than Winston. Instead of a conceptual new convention center, there IS a fairly new state of the art convention center here, a city council approved NBA arena under construction, a 25 story convention hotel, flagship main library branch...etc. This is, of course, if you define support by support of major publicly financed projects. People here really support our downtown. There wouldnt be so many new shops, restaurants, bars, cultural facilities..etc popping up if they didnt.

The only thing really turned down was an ill fated arena/arts bundle that would have built an arena for George Shinn - no one wanted that.

This is all opinion, of course. There is renewed interest in downtowns across the country.

[TwinCity]

It looks like they are cutting back the number of rooms? This could be to expand convention facilities in the hotels? The two hotels now have almost as much convention space as the convention center! :D I am glad to see more than one hotel brand back in downtown Winston-Salem. With fewer rooms, that will help seal a deal for a 7-8 storey hotel at Unity Place.

This was mentioned last night during the board meeting. You mentioned a while ago that the Adams Mark owns that parking lot on the eastside of the east tower. The developer said that is the site for a future tower if they decide to build. More than likely they will since almost 50% of the hotel rooms are lost.

Last night was the first time I watched the whole council meeting and Vernon Robinson voted no against almost every topic including the donation of urban parkland for the Arts Council to build their Perfoming Arts Center and the proposed condominiums on Reynolda Rd. He doesnt want W-S to progress.

[yadkinv]

TwinCity, that's great news about the possibility of another tower in the adjacent parking lot. As I recall, it's not a huge parking lot, not small either, so this could be exciting. Was anything further said about this, such as any timeline, particulars, mere speculation, or just a carrot for the city?

[TwinCity]

the develpers just hinted around the possibilty when one of the council members asked about the loss of hotel rooms that the renovation will cause. Obviously there have been some discussion about it because the site is already chosen.

[yadkinv]

Yea, and let's hope for the one at Unity Place also!

[Matthew]

So they are expanding the convention space inside the hotels and exploring an expansion to the East? That sounds great! Did you know this is the same company that's building Raleigh's new convention hotel and working on their complex! It's good news that they are making downtown an upscale convention spot. Currently the Graylyn Resort and Confrence Center is the only true upscale convention/meeting spot in Winston-Salem. It's sort of like our Grove Park Inn, if you've never been to Graylyn.

:D Professor Matt's History Class:
Adam's Mark Hotel's bought the old Huntley Hill Stockton Building and demolished it for future expansion in 1983. The 1903 Building was photographed and recorded as a historic building of North Carolina importance in Washington D.C.

Are you ready to see what you lost for this hotel's expansion! Trade Street was once Winston-Salem main business street. Today it's home to many old buildings. Some of them are from the 1880's! :eek: This one was from 1903 and any expansion of the new Marriott Hotel on Trade Street should include arts/retail space fronting Trade and Fifth streets, since that is a major entertainment district! Also another entrance should be located there, since it's across from the WSTA multi-modal transit center and the Bike Transit Center.

About the Building:
The first, third and fourth floors were furniture display floors. The second floor was used to display stoves. Huntley Hill Stockton was the largest wholesale and retail furniture center in North Carolina in 1908. It was a brick building with a wood frame and featured an undertaker's office around back, with three large gothic arched windows and an arched entry way for horse and carriages to enter the funeral parlor area on Fifth Street. This building was, at one time, Winston-Salem's downtown Belk Department Store until 1975.

http://memory.loc.gov/pnp/habshaer/nc/nc0300/nc0360/photos/102078pr.jpg

See the cranes! That's the construction of the Adam's Mark Winston Plaza Hotel in March 1983!

http://memory.loc.gov/pnp/habshaer/nc/nc0300/nc0360/photos/102083pr.jpg
You can see the funeral area (the store front and the windows).

http://memory.loc.gov/pnp/habshaer/nc/nc0300/nc0360/photos/102079pr.jpg
A great view of the 18 storey Adam's Mark Winston Plaza construction site from 1983!

http://memory.loc.gov/pnp/habshaer/nc/nc0300/nc0360/photos/102081pr.jpg

Wouldn't this make a great condo building with a ground floor art gallery and coffee shop to help extend the Arts District to Fourth Street?

It's amazing how the tallest of the historic buildings are always the first and only ones that get demolished. Notice the one and two storey buildings are still standing. The worst part is, they didn't have to demolish this! They wanted to beat out the preservationists though, who were trying to save it and keep them from expanding in the future. In the process they took down what would be a 101 year old building today, if it were still standing, for some expansion they are only just now getting around to doing 21 years later. :hell: