[EastSideHBG]

Well, a great question would be - what does NY really have? Ok, so that's really a problem for another thread. I'd really just point out that Harrisburg HAS the potential to be something greater than it is, it just never capitalizes on that. The city's basically a suburban mess (and yes, the city limits are so tiny you really need to factor in the suburbs). I think if the area really tried to build up its mass transit, and worked on attracting young people and foreigners (this is key, they actually go hand and hand), then of course it would be a much better city. Of course, a huge part of the problem (and I feel this goes with a lot of the state as a whole) is that people are happy to leave things the way they are, and actually dislike change. I really wish the city could do things like opening some more bridges up for pedestrian traffic, because the river is probably one of the greatest things about the city.
I totally agree. And the river is one of the main things I miss about Harrisburg, especially living so close in Shipoke.

Oh, and I guess back to prices - I'm not familiar with price increases inside the city limits. I just know that increases in the suburbs have been incredibly tame, to say the least.
It depends on what suburbs you are talking about, though. Camp Hill, Colonial Park, West Hanover, etc., saw a decent rise in prices over the last 5 years. Case in point, my friend's parents' house (near Linglestown) sold in the $160,000s in late '03. A very similar house right down the street was just up for sale and they got $197,000. I'm no real estate expert, but $30,000 in 4 years seems like a decent clip to me...

[Young Gun]

On the other hand I bought my house on 2nd streed for $170k last June. The house next door with half the square footage is on the market for $265k now. My guess is it won't sell anywhere close to that level.

I think it would be great for the Walnut Street Bridge to be repaired so that foot traffic can access City Island from both shores. Harrisburg Young Republicians have made rumblings for this proposal, but I have seen nothing in area media. I'm not even sure that anyone know how much it would cost.

As for more foot traffic across the river I would say what they have now is plenty. I never see anyone walking across the Harvey Taylor or Market Street Bridges, but I am not there during the day. There is just nothing on the West Shore to walk to.

[MidtownMike]

Hi. New to the thread. Here's a federal courthouse update from The Patriot-News:

A NEW ICON
Friday, May 25, 2007
BY JOHN LUCIEW
Of The Patriot-News

It will not be your father's federal courthouse.

Instead of the monotonous, monolithic building that looms over the city at Third and Walnut streets, the new courthouse being considered for 10 sites across Harrisburg would stand out as a vibrant piece of architecture, according to those planning the building.

"The existing courthouse does nothing to contribute to the city," said New York City architect Susan T. Rodriguez, the lead designer on the Harrisburg project.

"This new building is going to be fine architecture," she said. "This building has to stand up to higher ideals. It's a major new public building for the city of Harrisburg."

Given the estimated $100 million price tag and the emphasis on striking design under the U.S. General Services Administration's Design Excellence program, the question is: Where do you locate such a jewel?

If you listen to the GSA's project leaders and designers, this new courthouse shouldn't be shunted aside in the city's periphery, but featured as a city staple as compelling as the Susquehanna River and the Capitol dome.

"This is a great opportunity for Harrisburg to add a significant new public building," Rodriguez said. "You want to make sure where it's going is a place that really represents Harrisburg --not just an available site, but the right site and right location."

When it comes to building federal courthouses, nine times out of 10, the U.S. government locates them in cities' cores.

"For the most part, cities are wanting us in the downtown core," GSA chief architect Les Shepherd said. "It makes sense from a public infrastructure perspective. Federal courthouses typically belong in the downtown."

The GSA is studying the list of 10 sites, with a short list of two to five finalists due next month, said agency spokeswoman Gina Blyther Gilliam.

Half of the 10 sites are in the city's 100- to 500-year floodplain and won't be considered unless the other five sites are ruled out, according to GSA project director Abby Low.

Three of the remaining five sites are downtown, where GSA designers insist there are "gaps" or "missing teeth." They said the city's skyline and profile would benefit from an architecturally graceful courthouse.

"There is still a lot of opportunity downtown," Rodriguez said. "There has been great improvement ... but there's a lot of sites still available. The density is very uneven, and this is a building that's going to really contribute."

But the consensus in Harrisburg -- among Mayor Stephen R. Reed, many residents and neighborhood groups -- is that the courthouse is best suited for a mostly vacant tract at Sixth and Reily streets, just north of the Bethesda Mission homeless shelter.

They argue that the site, though somewhat remote and underdeveloped, would be transformed by a burst of planned development in nearby midtown.

Harrisburg Area Community College is expanding a branch campus; developers are planning more housing, retail, residential and office construction; and the city is contemplating a series of parking garages.

"It makes a lot of sense," Reed said of Sixth and Reily streets. He blasted the prospect of Harrisburg -- already burdened by tax-exempt government buildings -- sacrificing more prime sections downtown for the courthouse.

"That would be inexcusable," he said. "There are alternative locations available."

The three downtown sites under consideration are the southwestern corner of Third and Pine streets, including the Payne-Shoemaker and other buildings; the Dauphin County administration building at South Second and Market streets; and the southeast corner of North Second and Locust streets, including the Commerce Bank branch, Dunkin' Donuts and Sandwich Man.

Of the three sites, Reed said the only one he wouldn't oppose is the county administration building because it's already tax-exempt, but it might be too costly to move the county offices.

Yet Reed said he has little sway over the GSA, saying "only God knows where the federal courthouse is going."

Two federal courthouses built in Oregon reflect the choice facing Harrisburg.

In Portland, city officials seem happy with the striking courthouse that rises above the city's downtown.

"Here, there is a modern building juxtaposed against these older civic buildings," said Julie Rawls, a spokeswoman for the Portland Development Commission.

"It added a lot to downtown," she said. "It took a new and different approach for what a federal courthouse would look like. It's not old or stodgy at all."

But the $129 million project completed in 1997 didn't do much to spur development because the surrounding area was already built out, Rawls said.

In Eugene, the modern courthouse that attempts to blend the city's interests in art and the environment broke ground with its bold architecture and location.

The year-old building was crafted with soft lines and a fluid, flowing style by a Southern California architecture firm, appearing to give the low-rise building motion.

Mike Sullivan, the city's community development director, credited the building's location, several blocks outside of the downtown, with helping move Eugene forward by opening up more land toward the Willamette River.

But it took the GSA three times to select the site, Sullivan said.

Eugene's experience has parallels in Harrisburg, where a historic district around North Third and Forster streets made the GSA's first short list but was later scrapped along with two other residential sites. Now, the Dauphin County administration building is under consideration, despite the county's $17 million investment.

Eugene was generally happy with the results, and the futuristic courthouse has served as a development tool and as a conversation piece, Sullivan said.

"It's definitely high style," he said. "This being Oregon, there is a difference of opinion about it. Generally, I'd say the response has been strong."

What isn't up for debate is that the courthouse's location helped Eugene open up a former industrial area for further development, helping the city forge a greater connection between downtown and the river, Sullivan said.

"There is redevelopment interest on all sides of the courthouse," he said.

The question remains for Harrisburg: Should the courthouse be a downtown architectural showpiece or a new anchor in an underdeveloped part of the city?

"This is such a signature civic building," GSA's Low said. "Do you want to put that in your core and further strengthen that core, or do you want to put it on the edges? What is the most beneficial approach to the future of Harrisburg?"

Only time -- and the GSA -- will tell.

JOHN LUCIEW: 255-8171 or jluciew@patriot-news.com

©2007 The Patriot-News
© 2007 PennLive.com All Rights Reserved.

[MidtownMike]

Another:

Design would make a statement
THE ARCHITECT
Friday, May 25, 2007
BY JOHN LUCIEW
Of The Patriot-News

What will the federal courthouse planned for Harrisburg have in common with Bill Clinton's presidential library, the Newseum in Washington, D.C., and the Rose Center for Earth and Space at the American Museum of Natural History in New York?

They will all have been designed by the high-powered New York City architectural firm the Polshek Partnership.

The 140-person company bills itself as an award-winning architectural firm whose designs are "socially and technically relevant to their time and place," contributing to the life of their cities.

The firm prides itself in never designing two buildings alike, instead creating structures that have "souls" reflecting their clients' aspirations and histories, said Polshek publicity manager Sara Ambalu.

Susan T. Rodriguez, the firm's lead architect on the Harrisburg courthouse, is promising the same architectural expression for this project.

"This, undoubtedly, will be iconic," she said.

In Harrisburg, Rodriguez said she's been struck by the Susquehanna River, the city's grand governmental buildings and its compact downtown. She said her job will be to design a courthouse that brings those elements together.

"It's a beautiful city," she said, using words such as "historic fabric," "monumental," "intimate residential-scale buildings," "dignity" and "riverfront" when ticking off her impressions.

They all will influence her design, she said.

"Context of the surrounding, that is so vital to the success of the new courthouse," she said.

Along with the proper combination of materials, color and "inventive detailing," Rodriguez promised a statement-making courthouse.

"I am personally very interested in capturing the essence of Harrisburg," she said.

JOHN LUCIEW: 255-8171 or jluciew@patriot-news.com

©2007 The Patriot-News
© 2007 PennLive.com All Rights Reserved.

[EastSideHBG]

Welcome aboard, MidtownMike! :)

This site is just plain crazy:

The three downtown sites under consideration are the southwestern corner of Third and Pine streets, including the Payne-Shoemaker and other buildings; the Dauphin County administration building at South Second and Market streets; and the southeast corner of North Second and Locust streets, including the Commerce Bank branch, Dunkin' Donuts and Sandwich Man.

Commerce, DD, etc., are brand new spaces and it would be very silly to tear them down. The Sandwich Man is a staple and belongs right where it is! I am all for the Courthouse being in the core, but I feel that that part of 6th St. SHOULD be part of the main core and it would be really neat to see HBG do something similar to Atlanta, where the gov't side of town ended up expanding the core quite a bit. With all of the state offices, the new parking garage, the new state courthouse and this courthouse, North of Forester St. could end be being something really special...

But having faith in good, logical choices from two bumbling groups of people like the GSA and the City of Harrisburg is a mighty big leap, so I'll just sit back and hope for the best. :yes:

[Young Gun]

EastSide I agree, I think the best place would be on 6th and Riley. It has next to no development now. The city would lose the tax revenue on that site but that would be $100M of investment free to the city. I think it would also add some momentum to the renaissance of Midtown.

If the CBD spreads towards the Hill and down 6th street it would help preserve the nice homes still left in my neighborhood and across Forrester in Midtown too.

It sounds like the city wants the courthouse on 6th and Riley. Now the GSA needs to have the foresight to see that the Courthouse won't be on the City periphery if the locate it on 6th.

and Oh, welcome MidtownMike. Where do you live exactly?

[MidtownMike]

EastSide I agree, I think the best place would be on 6th and Riley. It has next to no development now. The city would lose the tax revenue on that site but that would be $100M of investment free to the city. I think it would also add some momentum to the renaissance of Midtown.

I agree completely. And they're going to lose the tax revenue on many of the sites, so I guess it's a wash anyway.

[japmes]

I'm a former Harrisburg resident and enjoy reading about all of the great development taking place in the city. It's great to hear that the city is in a rennaissance, but it would be even better to see a few pics of what's happening downtown and in the surrounding area. Does anyone have pics they can post?

[Young Gun]

Ok so these are what I got at the moment, I probably should cut them down in size so I'll just post links.

HACC's new midtown Campus building. Looking in much better shape. It really being given a new lease on life. In fact that whole block is undergoing renovations by the College. Should drive up the price of properties in the area and assist with the Midtown Renaissance.

http://jerchamberlin.myphotoalbum.com/view_photo.php?set_albumName=album01&id=HACC3
http://jerchamberlin.myphotoalbum.com/view_photo.php?set_albumName=album01&id=HACC2
http://jerchamberlin.myphotoalbum.com/view_photo.php?set_albumName=album01&id=HACC1

The site prep of Harrisburg University of Science and Technology
http://jerchamberlin.myphotoalbum.com/view_photo.php?set_albumName=album01&id=HUST3
http://jerchamberlin.myphotoalbum.com/view_photo.php?set_albumName=album01&id=HUST2
http://jerchamberlin.myphotoalbum.com/view_photo.php?set_albumName=album01&id=HUST1

Not sure if you've seen it or not, so I'll take some pictures of the renovated State Street that was finished last fall. The new parking garage on the corner of State and 2nd should be done soon. Once it is I'll document the new hotel going in on its corner.

[Young Gun]

I probably should have ask, is there anything in particular that you'd like to see a picture of?

[japmes]

I probably should have ask, is there anything in particular that you'd like to see a picture of?


Great, thanks for the pics! It will be interesting to see those projects progress. I wasn't looking for anything in particular, just wanted to catch a glimpse of the new Harrisburg rising from the ashes. I hear 2nd street has finally come alive. When I lived in Harrisburg, the opening of Stocks on 2nd was a big deal. It sounds like a lot more is happening.

[EastSideHBG]

Welcome aboard, japmes! So where are you living now?

Nice pics, Young Gun, thanks! :)

[Young Gun]

As promised, I took a few more last night and this morning.

View of newly completed (fall 06) State Street looking east towards the capital
http://jerchamberlin.myphotoalbum.com/view_photo.php?set_albumName=album01&id=IMG_1289
The two gray buildings on the right side of the photo are now condemned and will be demolished for the Aloft hotel when the parking garage that is just out of photo is completed.

View of State Street looking West towards the river
http://jerchamberlin.myphotoalbum.com/view_photo.php?set_albumName=album01&id=IMG_1291

[EastSideHBG]

Graet pics, YG, thanks again! It's still very weird for me to see State St. like that, but I do like what they did with it. I wish they would plant some flowers in that grass strip, though, as it looks a little too plain right now IMO.

[Young Gun]

I think the flowers would get trampled, people cut across the median all the time. Perhaps if the curb was a little taller??

[MidtownMike]

While this isn't Harrisburg proper, it most certainly has an overall positive effect on the region, including the city:

New Hershey research center aims to create jobs
Thursday, May 31, 2007
BY DAVID WENNER
Of The Patriot-News

The Hershey Center for Applied Research is intended to open the gateway to new, high-paying jobs for the area.

Its purpose is to attract and provide businesses that can benefit from being close to Penn State Milton S. Hershey Medical Center, which is across the street. A major goal is to turn medical center research -- such as drugs, medical devices or diagnostic tools -- into products, businesses and jobs.

"Growing new companies will be critical to the success of the park," said Laura Butcher, the director.

The master plan for the park, which officially opened yesterday, calls for 12 research buildings.

One has been built so far -- a three-story structure featuring laboratories for companies involved with biosciences or life sciences.

The building is owned by Wexford Science & Technology, a Baltimore firm that specializes in building research facilities near research institutions such as the medical center and its medical school. The building is on land owned by the Hershey Trust Co., which is involved in the partnership that's building the research park.

The first building, which cost $25 million, can hold 400 to 500 workers.

The first tenant is the medical center, which moved its pharmacology department and office of technology development into the building.

Also, a small business started by medical center employees, Apogee Biotechnology Corp., has leased space. Apogee develops drugs to treat diseases including cancer.

Butcher says she's optimistic most of the space in the first building will be leased after a year.

Preliminary plans for the second building are under way, and construction might begin when occupancy of the first building reaches 75 percent, she said.

Pennsylvania's fastest-growing business sector involves companies that take medical and scientific research and turn it into products that can be manufactured and sold, said Dennis Yablonsky of the state Department of Community and Economic Development.

Such jobs pay an average of $69,000 annually, he said. About 60 percent don't require a four-year college degree, although most require some sort of specialized training after high school.

The first building was built through a partnership involving local economic groups including the Harrisburg Regional Chamber, Capital Region Economic Development Corp. and the Life Sciences Greenhouse of Central Pennsylvania.

The state provided $5 million in grants and loans, and the greenhouse provided a $700,000 grant.

Backers of the park say the presence of private research facilities is essential to the medical center's continued ability to attract top-notch researchers.

DAVID WENNER: 255-8172 or dwenner@patriot-news.com

[MidtownMike]

First of 71 planned townhomes being built in midtown:

CENTRAL PENN BUSINESS JOURNAL DAILY -- June 6, 2007

Reed dedicates townhouse development
Harrisburg Mayor Stephen R. Reed today dedicated the first installment of 71 planned townhouses to be built along North Fifth, North Sixth, Reily and Calder streets. The first phase involves the construction of 17 townhouses, eight of which are complete, in the 1400 block of North Sixth Street, Reed said. The 1,280-square-foot residences are called Market Place Townhomes. Prices start at $129,900, Reed said. S&A Homes, based in State College, Centre County, is developing the townhomes. The construction represents more than $8 million in construction, streetscape and infrastructure improvements to the midtown sector of the city, Reed said. - Eric Veronikis, Central Penn Business Journal

[Young Gun]

Not sure if it is part of the same project or not, but across the street from my friends place on the 1900 block of Green Street they demolish a set of rowhouses. Everyone in the area seemed happy to see the houses go.

[moseley]

I stumbled onto this site thanks to a google search. First, I want to admit that I am biased. I run the non-profit group that is actively seeking to redeveop the Hill. But it seems that all 79 pages of this thread have skipped over some over the most exciting work being done in the City. They aren't skyscrapers but they sure help the City.

I couldn't quite figure out how to post picture so I put up a temp page on our server. It is graphic intensive but please take a look, it's worth it. :banana:

http://www.tchdc.net/Skyscraperpage.htm

[Young Gun]

Most of it is skipped over for no other reason than we don't live in that neighborhood and not alot gets mention (of a positive nature) in the paper about the Hill

I know its not an excuse, but it is a reason I guess

I have noticed the changes along Market Street as I drive through, good job!! Are the home ower occupied or are they rental units? Since you are a non profit do you buy renovate and sell or what is your business model?

[EastSideHBG]

First off, welcome to the forum, moseley! Thanks a lot for the info. But "all 79 pages of this thread have 'skipped over' some of the most exciting work being done in the City" for the reasons Young Gun stated below:

Most of it is skipped over for no other reason than we don't live in that neighborhood and not alot gets mention (that is good) in the paper about the Hill

I know its not an excuse, but it is a reason I guess

Hopefully you will be able to change this for us. :yes:

And I'm happy to see all of the new HBG forumers now! Since I no longer live there and out of the loop, it's nice to have you guys to keep me updated on things. :tup:

[Young Gun]

sorry about that East Side. I edited my post while you were writing yours apparently. i didn't think what I had put in the parenthesis sounded the way I meant it after I had submitted the post.

[moseley]

Most of it is skipped over for no other reason than we don't live in that neighborhood and not alot gets mention (of a positive nature) in the paper about the Hill

I know its not an excuse, but it is a reason I guess

I have noticed the changes along Market Street as I drive through, good job!! Are the home ower occupied or are they rental units? Since you are a non profit do you buy renovate and sell or what is your business model?

I didn't mean to sound negative about the 79 pages. We don't always do a good job at getting the word out.

The first picture on the page of the burned out units is rental as is Market Street. The second set of pictures 1521-1529 Derry are Homeownership. We also have 4 of the 5 million needed for a 25 unit new subdivision at 16th and Swatara.

The first of the 25 units will be a Net-Zero Energy home. It is designed to produce more power than it will use. The sad thing about the house is that since PA dropped the ball on net-metering the home will still have a yearly utility bill from PPL of approximately $120 or $10 a month.

We also have projects in other nearby areas:


Historic Rehab of the Newport Hotel.
Rehab for Resale in Steelton.
Rehab for Resale in Enola.
New Construction for Homeowners in Millersburg.


What's our business model? We use public and private funds to complete revitalization projects that private developer can't or won't do. I guess I would call our business model Opportunistic. If we can find the money...We'll do it!

[Young Gun]

That is sad about the net metering, I live alone, my electric bill only comes to approximately $20 a month so to have spent the extra effort and not get an appreciable return has to be disappointing.


Continue the good work!!!

oh and have I missed 6 pages of this thread?:)

[Spudmrg]

Long time no vist.

Good news all around on the new construction, through the continued lack of retail shopping and non-nightclub places of interest (downtown) is rather disappointing. It would be nice if (as has been mentioned before) one did'nt have to drive for groceries.

[Young Gun]

If everyone was willing to chip in their allowance, I'd be more than happy to start a grocery store... :)

all kidding aside the big money (lowest risk at least) at the moment in Harrisburg is the fill in construction projects in Midtown. When that market is saturated I expect that people will start to look elsewhere to make money. At the moment there isn't much retail, just like 10 years ago there wasn't any nightlife. Special deals created the critical mass to fuel that growth. Perhaps some incentive seed project could create the interest needed to get others to invest

thoughts anyone?

[moseley]

Rumor has it a "Save-a-Lot" will be going in on the hill. Not a full-fledged grocery store but it is a start.

[moseley]

At the moment there isn't much retail, just like 10 years ago there wasn't any nightlife. Special deals created the critical mass to fuel that growth. Perhaps some incentive seed project could create the interest needed to get others to invest

thoughts anyone?

Harrisburg is cursed by the inability to change its border. In 1972 The PA Supreme Court struck down the annexation laws because the “new” constitution gave a deadline for the legislature to pass new rules on boundary changes. Our legislature shied from the mandated task and here we are 35 years later and legislature is still refusing to act on the issue.

As a result, PA is faced with layer over layer of political red tape making it difficult to attract companies. On top of that areas like Harrisburg are in a real bind. Virtually any tax base is outside of the City limits. Although Mayor Reed has done a good job at attracting new development to his little patch of land, he is still faced with a tax base that is largely based on the people who have the least per capita income in the region. The way that PA deals with school taxes only makes the issue worse. The densest and poorest area pays the highest taxes. Harrisburg’s faire department is often the first on the scene in surrounding areas where the volunteer fire fighters take too long to respond. Areas outside of Harrisburg use the incinerator water sewer and other essential services.

Harrisburg is doomed until the legislature acts on the law they were suppose to pass in 1970.

I grew up in Topeka, Kansas, A Capitol City like Harrisburg. Topeka’s Metropolitan Statistical Area has a population in excess of 229,000. Harrisburg’s MSA has a population of 652,000. So Topeka is a third the size of Harrisburg. But the population of the City of Topeka has a population of 122,000 which in over 150% the size of Harrisburg. There is a real disconnect here.

Cities like Harrisburg are doomed until PA starts following the same laws are the rest of nation.

[moseley]

BUILDING BOOM
Linglestown Road area sees growth
Tuesday, June 12, 2007
BY DIANA FISHLOCK
Of The Patriot-News

Construction is booming along Linglestown Road and that will continue if developers' plans are approved.

A new Dunkin' Donuts/Baskin Robbins and a large medical practice are open for business, and a bank and a strip mall are being built. Developers hope to get approval to build a day spa, an upscale restaurant and an office building, according to township officials.

"This is all sort of working together," said Brian Evans, managing partner of Patton Place, a canopied strip mall under construction.

"It does sound like a fun area," said Dianne Moran, Lower Paxton Twp. planning and zoning officer.

Fran George, a township resident, has mixed feelings.

"The traffic is bad," said George, who loves her town house at Kensington Place, a community behind the Weis supermarket on Linglestown Road.

Besides the commercial development, several residential developments are being built, and the construction trucks further clog Linglestown Road, she said.

New restaurants are OK, but George prefers they not serve liquor. She said she's concerned about drunken drivers.

"It is one of the handiest places to live," said George, who moved there two years ago. "You have just about everything at your fingertips. We love where we live right now. In the future, I don't know what will happen."

New and proposed businesses include:

# The Dunkin' Donuts/Baskin Robbins is open at 4342 Linglestown Road.

# A Commerce Bank branch is being built at 4350 Linglestown Road.

# Behind those two properties, the 22,000-square-foot plaza called Patton Place is being built at 2308 Patton Road. An Italian restaurant, a fitness center, a nail salon and two to three other restaurants and seven other stores are scheduled to open between Labor Day and Thanksgiving, Evans said.

# PinnacleHealth Lower Paxton FamilyCare at 2310 Patton Road opened Jan. 2. The 13,050-square-foot facility combined two practices that include five doctors and two registered nurse practitioners.

"It's a site that provides family medicine services for the entire family," PinnacleHealth spokesman Kim Payne said. The center provides routine medical care and acute care for illnesses and injuries.

In Susquehanna Twp., Cedar Shopping Centers Inc. plans to build a 116,000- square-foot shopping center anchored by a Giant supermarket. The developer agreed to a six-month delay while the Pennsylvania Department of Transportation prepares suggestions on road improvements.

Except for the Linglestown Square project, there are no plans to widen Linglestown Road in either Lower Paxton or Susquehanna townships, PennDOT spokesman Greg Penny said.

On the vacant lot between the Weis market and Colonial Road, developers are proposing these businesses, which township officials have not yet approved:

# A two-story, 31,685-
square-foot restaurant with seating for at least 500. It would include a sports bar and an upscale restaurant, Moran said.

# A day spa.

# A two-story, 12,168-square-foot office building.

DIANA FISHLOCK: 255-8251 or dfishlock@patriot-news.com

[EastSideHBG]

Cities like Harrisburg are doomed until PA starts following the same laws are the rest of nation.
:yes: But what can you really do, though? Even if the laws were changed, HBG is competing against some pretty strong municipalities...I really don't see Susquehanna Twp. allowing (or needing/wanting) anything to be annexed. Penbrook *maybe*, but then the city would be in the same boat (if not worse) since that municipality is struggling and flirting with bankruptcy. Steelton? They seem to be coming back around and I could see a HUGE fight go down there...

I see what you are saying, moseley, but it's the city and the region's stupid fault for the SEVERE lack of foresight when borders were drawn. Also, Harrisburg is in the boat it is in because of the dumb mistakes it does time and time again...the overall leadership is and has always been horrible IMO.

Instead I say we go the route of MD and some other states and have a strong county system. It won't solve it all but it will definitely help.

Rumor has it a "Save-a-Lot" will be going in on the hill. Not a full-fledged grocery store but it is a start.
I work for the company that owns them and we haven't received any word on it yet. Not saying that it is not in the works behind the scenes, just saying that if it is, it is in the planning stages at this point and I wouldn't expect much news this year. Also, we're closing our distribution center on Industrial Road in the next three years unfortunately and everything will come out of our warehouse in Lancaster. I mention this because if that store is in the works, these logistics will come into play.

On the plus side there is a very aggressive store opening plan and we want to expand, so anything is possible, as we have no presence in the South Central PA market. I don't think our ACME stores would work there again, though (there were ACMEs all over the area many moons ago; owned by a different company, though) and I'm sure if you do get something, it will be under the Save-A-Lot moniker.

RE: the development news along Linglestown Rd., I can't say that I am impressed at all. In typical Harrisburg fashion it is more of the exact same crap you can find a mere few miles down the road in any direction. I guess the market dictates as such, though. :rolleyes:

New restaurants are OK, but George prefers they not serve liquor. She said she's concerned about drunken drivers.
LOL typical South Central PA! :laugh:

[moseley]

Save A Lot has been negotiating for the Coca-Cola building on 17th. I don't know if it has stalled or not but I believe it was at least 2-years out.

The strong County idea solves the problem too. I mentioned the boundary change laws because the 1968 PA constitutional convention directly mandated that the legislature work out new laws to deal with the problem then the 1972 Court case specifically pointed out that there can be no provisional laws until the legislature fulfills it's mandate. Almost 40 years have passed and they have failed to act. Let’s face it 49 states have more workable boundary change laws. Regardless of what some people may feel, at some point law makers have to serve the greater good.

[Young Gun]

Nice discussion gentlemen. Prepare for another one of my extended posts.

I agree that consolidation of municipalities would be a good thing from a reduction of bureaucracy and fighting common issues together. Indeed you can go through several different "suburbs" (for the lack of a better term) of Harrisburg and not even realize you've left the city. They use the same street names, or continue Harrisburg's numbering system.

Over the long term a strong county government would be detrimental to the greater Harrisburg metro area. It would drive a spike between the East and West shores. The west shore communities are a part of Harrisburg. In a typical city they would be within the city limits. Conversely a strong county wide school system throughout Pennsylvania should help ease Harrisburg’s school tax burden at the local level, but would probably increase the cost to the local communities as is shared Harrisburg’s burden.

You have to fight battles with the weapons that you have at hand. In case nobody has noticed I am an optimist and believe there is a way to get anything done. The long term goal should be to pass legislation that would allow annexation of land. Until that happens Harrisburg is burdened with a large percentage of untaxable land. Perhaps it could argue this to the state for a bigger piece of the state pie. Harrisburg has a large amount of infill from the decades of decline that needs to be used up. Get houses and business built on this land. If it takes giving a 10 year tax holiday such as the Capital Heights development area so be it. Get them built. The sooner the tax holiday starts the sooner it will run out. The land and dilapidated houses are worth very little tax revenue in their current condition. Some vacant lots are owned by the city.

A second method to increasing the tax revenue to the city would be to increase the property value being taxed. This would be a negative for homeowners so the way that you could increase the property value without driving out all of the new homeowners is to change increase taxes in areas other than residential. Developing the business district of Harrisburg (the current CBD) and extending the commercial area through the proposed Southern Gateway, and along 6th and 7th Streets away from the current downtown. Most people in the city seem to think that the down town can only extend down 2nd street. The CBD is really constricted to South of Liberty Street, and for the most part it would be hard to develop anything not located in a current house North of State Street. The best places (in my opinion) for commercial development are cut off from easy vehicular access from current commercial locations. There are several ways to create easier access to 6th and 7th streets. A new commercial zone could be created where traffic can flow from Walnut to Reily along 6th and 7th. The best part is that none of this land is in historic districts. Much of it is undeveloped or parking lots

• Reverse the direction of traffic on Walnut Street. Do the same on the section of Market from Front to 5th Street to accommodate traffic in the opposite direction. This might hurt traffic flow through the Hill, but I don’t really have the means at my disposal to make that determination.

• Create more bridges over the train tracks so the tracks don’t act like a wall to keep development in. Better Access between Cameron and the rest of the city would help to spur development along this street. It is already set up for good traffic flow; however the roads surface is in a major need of an overhaul.

I think the city could become cash rich if it intelligently developed the plans above. If the city was cash rich it would have the means to increase its effective land area without resorting to legislative wrangling. The train lines cutting a swath through the city could be moved underground. It would be a massive undertaking but would increase the developable land by approximately 10% by my rough estimation looking at Google Maps. I have no idea how much this would cost but it would be lots. Maybe the city could get the state and federal governments to pitch in if it could tie the project to some improvements in public transit and Amtrak.
Lastly East Side if you work for a company that is putting in a grocery store tell them to give us a deliver option!! I am willing to pay a 10% premium on my groceries for the convenience. (I only spend $25 a week now so it wouldn’t really be a lot of money)


I better stop before this post reaches an unreadable length.

[EastSideHBG]

Good post, Young Gun! :tup:

[MidtownMike]

Down to 2: Officials look at downtown sites for federal courthouse

Posted by John Luciew/The Patriot-News June 21, 2007 12:35PM

A federal courthouse for Harrisburg could be built in downtown Harrisburg under a short list of site alternatives unveiled today by the U.S. General Services Administration.

The GSA narrowed the list down to two sites:

The southwest corner of North Third and Pine streets.

The southeast corner of North Second and Locust streets.

Federal officials said they wanted to be in Harrisburg's central business district.

The Patriot-NewsTwo possible locations of the federal courthouse include Third and Pine streets and Second and Locust streets.

GSA Regional Administrator Barbara L. Shelton announced the alternatives today after spending about five months studying a list of 10 possible locations for the $100 million courthouse project.

The agency now will study the alternatives in far greater detail with hopes of identifying a final site by early 2008.

GSA is charged with finding a replacement site for the courthouse at Walnut and Locust streets, mainly to meet security requirements. The six- to 14-floor, 262,970-square-foot courthouse would have eight courtrooms and space for expansion. It is to be ready by 2012. The existing building would continue to house other federal offices.

The agency is hoping for far better results than that of it's first search, begun in 2004, which resulted in all three preferred alternatives being rejected.

In that case, all three finalist sites would have uprooted scores of residents, at Cumberland Court apartments, the Jackson-Lick public housing towers, or in the Capitol-area neighborhood at Third and Forster streets. A public backlash ultimately forced the agency to scuttle its first search and start anew last fall.

For more on this story, see tomorrow's editions of The Patriot-News.

[Young Gun]

so instead they'll close up properous businesses? I gotta get some of the stuff the GSA smokes they are f'in stupid!!!

The site on third and pine isn't much better...

[harrisburger]

i don't understand it...after all of the uproar of the last time, they still try to go directly downtown. maybe they hope the people are less sympathetic to commercial enterprises. i think they're wrong. we'll have another search on our hands next year. sooner or later they'll come to their senses and join either the northern or southern gateway

[EastSideHBG]

This is a TOTAL JOKE! All of the available land in HBG and they choose to screw up the thriving part?!? Another perfect example of how our federal gov't has absolutely no clue in hell as to what it is doing. If I were the city, I would sue the s*it out of the GSA and tie the construction up for years in litigation...this is a historic area, and I'm sure it would be easy to tie things up due to that.

2nd and Locust would put this new building right next to the old one. You know, the one that sucks so bad they have to replace it, and was ranked as one of the worst in the nation for security. :rolleyes:

And what a hit the nightlife district will take! This is just bad, bad, bad...

[Young Gun]

Does anyone have an address for the GSA? I am sure it wouldn't be hard to stand by the Sandwich Man and pick up a lot of signatures.

Call me a conspiracy theorist but I say they propose the Locust Street location because they want to place it on Third. What is in that building on the corner of Third and Pine? I can't seem to remember. I know Vartan Bank owns the lot next to the corner of Third and Pine.

[danwxman]

Does anyone have an address for the GSA? I am sure it wouldn't be hard to stand by the Sandwich Man and pick up a lot of signatures.

Call me a conspiracy theorist but I say they propose the Locust Street location because they want to place it on Third. What is in that building on the corner of Third and Pine? I can't seem to remember. I know Vartan Bank owns the lot next to the corner of Third and Pine.

I wouldn't mind seeing that parking lot disappear, but not at the expense of the nearby buildings. There is a new coffeeshop (Java's Brewin) that just opened up in the historic midrise next to that lot. I saw on ABC27 that the GSA is considering incorporating that building into the new one, but all the businesses in that building would of course have to move out including the new coffeeshop. I think if anything the Third and Pine location should be chosen, but once again that is prime real estate downtown that could be used for another office or residential building that would actually be contributing to the tax base.

[Young Gun]

I agree I'd like to see the parking lot go, but as far as parking lots in Harrisburg it isn't that bad looking... I just don't think that you should be consuming prime commercial real estate so that it can "help fill out the commercial district" place it in an area to stimulate the commercial district like 6th and Reily. That would be an excellent location for the city.

[Evergrey]

Harrisburg is cursed by the inability to change its border. In 1972 The PA Supreme Court struck down the annexation laws because the “new” constitution gave a deadline for the legislature to pass new rules on boundary changes. Our legislature shied from the mandated task and here we are 35 years later and legislature is still refusing to act on the issue.

As a result, PA is faced with layer over layer of political red tape making it difficult to attract companies. On top of that areas like Harrisburg are in a real bind. Virtually any tax base is outside of the City limits. Although Mayor Reed has done a good job at attracting new development to his little patch of land, he is still faced with a tax base that is largely based on the people who have the least per capita income in the region. The way that PA deals with school taxes only makes the issue worse. The densest and poorest area pays the highest taxes. Harrisburg’s faire department is often the first on the scene in surrounding areas where the volunteer fire fighters take too long to respond. Areas outside of Harrisburg use the incinerator water sewer and other essential services.

Harrisburg is doomed until the legislature acts on the law they were suppose to pass in 1970.

I grew up in Topeka, Kansas, A Capitol City like Harrisburg. Topeka’s Metropolitan Statistical Area has a population in excess of 229,000. Harrisburg’s MSA has a population of 652,000. So Topeka is a third the size of Harrisburg. But the population of the City of Topeka has a population of 122,000 which in over 150% the size of Harrisburg. There is a real disconnect here.

Cities like Harrisburg are doomed until PA starts following the same laws are the rest of nation.

Excellent post... I am impressed with your knowledge of the nuances of Pennsylvania's archaic system of municipal governance... which is one of the biggest contributing reasons for Pennsylvania's continued economic malaise, out-of-control sprawl and urban decline. Bravo.

[BuffaloBill]

I don't mean to throw this thread for a loop, but I was wondering what Harrisburg's baseball attendance is like. Reason I ask, being in York Co., and the Revolution franchise started playing some home games.....attendance is NOT GOOD!

It isn't a good start, and people have already been saying that the 33 million dollars could have spent to spruce up downtown more or help the neighborhoods.

Again, didn't mean to throw the thread for a loop, but it seems York city was hoping to hit a home run, but this looks a foul ball for the town. Only 2,600 or so showed up for last night's game. Great weather, a Friday night, kids are out of school and only the 5th game in the new stadium.

Kinda sad with the rough start. :(

[Young Gun]

kinda hard for me to say, but I live on 2nd street and when there is a home game in the summer parking becomes very difficult. I plan on going to a game next week so I could better tell you then.

[EastSideHBG]

I am not surprised at all to see baseball failing in York (and Lancaster?). There are just far, far too many teams in a small area to make it worthwhile. IMO York wasted a lot of money, and sports cannot/should not be the savior of an area.

The Senators still draw a decent crowd but NOTHING like they did when I was younger. I'm sure a new stadium will help, though.

[Evergrey]

Biz Journals just did a study ranking the 100 largest metros in the US on income growth over the past 25 years.

http://www.bizjournals.com/specials/pages/92.html

Harrisburg ranks 65th.

Here is how Harrisburg's income growth stacks up against other PA metros:

17. Philadelphia
19. Pittsburgh
47. Scranton - Wilkes-Barre
65. Harrisburg
85. Allentown-Bethlehem

Here is how Harrisburg's per capita personal income stacks up against other PA metros:

1. Philadelphia $40,727
2. Pittsburgh $36,530
3. Harrisburg, PA $35,188
National $34,426
4. Allentown - Bethlehem, PA $33,808
5. Scranton - Wilkes-Barre, PA $30,547

[EastSideHBG]

Very interesting, thanks, Evergrey! This is one of the few lists that I agree with 100%. While income does not grow fast in Harrisburg (in most cases it...is...painfully...slow) you still make out pretty well, as the salaries are quite high in many cases and the cost of living is still fairly low. Pound for pound I made W A Y more in Harrisburg than I do here...

...but I don't care, and the move was well worth it. :D

[Young Gun]

I'd have to agree with the cost of living as well. Harrisburg is an oddity in that living in the city of Harrisburg is much cheaper than living in the suburbs and towns around it. Housing on the east shore is about 30% less than close by.

Unlike you ESH I like the lower cost of living as it allowed me to buy a new car, a house and have cash to spare for renovations all by the age of 24...

[danwxman]

City apartments near completion
Tuesday, July 03, 2007

Developers are finishing work on 48 new apartments for families in the South Allison Hill neighborhood of Harrisburg.

Fourteen apartments are leased, said Mark Moseley, executive director of Tri-County Housing Development Corp. Ltd. The units are on properties in the 1400 block of Market Street and in the 1500 and 1600 blocks of Derry Street.

The Mount Pleasant apartments average about 1,000 square feet, and rents range from $440 to $660 per month. Families must meet federal low-income guidelines, such as a family of four earning $39,000 a year or less.


The apartments replaced 32 blighted properties. Funding for the $9.4 million project came from private sources and the city, state and federal governments.

Call 730-4141 for more information.

[danwxman]

From the Central Penn Business Journal:

Blighted Harrisburg market given new life
The former Emerald supermarket at 2304 N. Third St. in Harrisburg will open as a different supermarket.

C&Z Construction , based in Dauphin County, started construction in April and expects to wind up renovations to the 13,000-square-foot building in two weeks, said Anthony Zehring, vice president of C&Z.

The developer, York County-based In Suk Pak, paid C&Z between $300,000 and $400,000 for renovations. Pak did not immediately return phone calls seeking comment. - Eric Veronikis

Harrisburg getting another Starbucks
Harrisburg’s Colonial Building will serve up Starbucks coffee come September.

This will be the Seattle-based company’s second retail location in Pennsylvania’s capitol.

The café will open in 1,800 square feet of retail space inside the historic Colonial Building at 225 Market St.

Starbucks now has a retail store inside downtown Harrisburg’s Whitaker Center for Science and Arts. - CPENN Staff

[MidtownMike]

Home sales/listings year over year for 2nd Q 2007 v. 2006:

-- Home prices slightly higher (up 3.1 percent)

-- Number of homes sold down (down 1.4 percent)

-- Active listings up significantly (up roughly 40 percent)

-- Average days on market unchanged

________________________________________________________

Area home prices keep climbing
Friday, July 06, 2007
BY DAN MILLER
Of The Patriot-News

Sale prices of homes in the midstate are still going up, according to second-quarter figures released yesterday by Central Penn Multi-List Inc.

The average sale price was $183,400, an increase of 3.4 percent from the first quarter. The second-quarter average is 3.1 percent more than $177,744 a year earlier.

The midstate continues to buck national trends of prices falling slightly from historic highs. For example, the national median price of an existing home in May -- $223,700 -- was down 2.1 percent from the national median a year earlier, according to the National Association of Realtors.
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The median means half of the homes sold for more and half sold for less. The regional Central Penn Multi-List uses averages in its reports, so a direct correlation to the national figures can't be made.

However, local industry experts were encouraged by the second-quarter numbers.

"The south-central Pennsylvania market is still very strong" compared to the nation, said Cynthia Armour-Helm, broker/owner of Exit Realty Capital Area in Harrisburg.

The number of midstate homes sold in the second quarter -- 2,570 -- was more than in the first three months of the year. But it was less than the 2,607 homes that were sold in the Harrisburg area in the second quarter of 2006.

"While we may not be seeing large increases in the number of units sold, what we are seeing is continued strength in the market. Rising home sale prices, coupled with steady home sales and low mortgage rates, provide for that healthy market," said Jerrod Paterson, president of the Greater Harrisburg Association of Realtors.

Paterson noted an increased number of homes on the market -- active lists -- of 3,458 in the second quarter. That's nearly 600 more than in the first quarter and almost 1,000 more than the total in the second quarter of 2006.

The second quarter this year is the first time the number of homes on active lists have topped 3,000 in any quarter since at least before 2002.

The increase in active lists underscore the shift in local market conditions favoring buyers, Paterson said.

"With more active listings on the market, buyers now have the advantage," he said. "They have more options and choices when searching for a new home."

Days on market -- how long it takes for a listed home to sell -- was 54 in the second quarter, which is in line with quarterly trends of recent years.

In the first quarter, listed homes were on the market for 63 days.

[Young Gun]

The fourth of July is always a great opportunity to travel. This year I decided to visit a friend in NYC. Free place to crash who can top that? I got out to see a large part of Manhattan. I visited many of the normal spots (the Met, Natural History, went for a run around the reservoir in Central Park) The following is the major comparisons I had to Harrisburg.

I've never thought of Harrisburg as a clean city, but my thoughts have largely changed. Everywhere I went there was trash laying around. Many of the side walks were stained from past garbage exposure.

Harrisburg is cheap!! Everything in NYC costs tons of money.

Harrisburg is in no need of a public transportation system. I walked farther just to get to subway stations than entire nights out in the 'burg

More trees. This is something both cities need more of. I don't mind walking when I am in the shade. Walking during the day on tree lined streets the walk is much more enjoyable. It helps to keep the temp down, nice feel to the neighborhoods, and helps to clean the air (slightly)

Well my thoughts for now. Thought I'd share!!

[danwxman]

Reed touts tech jobs as training firm opens office
Tuesday, July 10, 2007
BY DAVID DeKOK
Of The Patriot-News

It was less a ribbon-cutting ceremony than an opportunity to highlight one of Harrisburg's technology success stories.

Mayor Stephen R. Reed actually did cut a ribbon on the second floor of the Harrisburg Transportation Center yesterday. But he was much more interested in talking about how Corporate University Xchange fits into his vision of the 21st century knowledge-based economy.

Americans need to be educated for technology jobs, not the industrial jobs of the 19th century, Reed said. Instead of bringing in highly educated foreigners to do those jobs, as often happens now, he wants more Americans trained for those careers.

Corporate University Xchange, which helps large companies better train their work forces, adjoins the Technology Council of Central Pennsylvania. Both are across Market Street from a high-rise building being constructed to house classrooms and laboratories of Harrisburg University of Science and Technology.

Down the street is the Life Sciences Greenhouse of Central Pennsylvania, which provides financial and other help to start bio-technology companies. All of this will provide a global identity for Harrisburg, Reed argues.

"It's pretty exciting stuff," Reed said. "That interconnection does not exist in too many places in America."

Susan Todd is the president of Corporate University Xchange, and her brother, Alan Todd, is the chairman. He was the founder of KnowledgePlanet but no longer is connected with that company.

The Todds purchased Corporate University Xchange in 2004 and moved it here from New York City.

"Why are we in Harrisburg?" Alan Todd said. "Well, for one thing, it's my hometown. But Harrisburg brings access to capital, an unprecedented level of talent, and access to a good business environment."

He said it is no trouble to get to anywhere in the world from Harrisburg International Airport, citing his own six trips to the Middle East in the past 16 months.

"I don't believe there's a better place on earth to locate a business," Todd said.

Both Todd and Reed spoke of the need for America to develop a strategy to preserve its economic edge against competition from developing countries. Some countries, Todd said, are skipping the industrial stage and going straight to a knowledge-based economy.

"America needs to wake up," Reed said. "The disconnect between education and work-force development is a clear threat to national security."

DAVID DeKOK: 255-8173 or ddekok@patriot-news.com

[EastSideHBG]

Very interesting (and good) news. I have been noticing a lot of businesses relocating to the HBG area from elsewhere. I'm sure as more come in, the word spreads bringing even more, etc. Good news for Harrisburg! :tup:

[EastSideHBG]

Well now here is some crappy news! I popped over to a site I haven't visited in a while hoping to find some good news about DT HBG, and instead I find this:

Advice This Summer: Avoid Downtown

This may sound extreme, but after the latest incidents of violent crime downtown, I would advise anyone to stay away from Downtown Harrisburg for a while until the city can clean things up a bit.

When the entertainment district begins to see violent crime outside their door, something is wrong.For those of you who don’t know yet, a band performing downtown was mugged and pistol whipped after their show at Smalls last week. It was barely reported in the mass media, but local bloggers Jersey Mike and Justina, did make mention of it. CBS 21 only did a story after the online outcry became louder.

Smalls isn’t off the beaten path or in a bad part of town. It’s right in the heart of Restaurant Row on 2nd Street. Violent crime should not be happening where people come to frequent the city’s best bars and restaurants on a regular basis. If crime continues to flourish in Harrisburg like is has this year, more and more people will stay away from Harrisburg’s entertainment district.

The scene downtown has continuously gotten worse and I’ve discussed this with several area bloggers. The frat party mentality is out of control and the police do little to intervene or keep the peace outside of some presence outside the River Street Garage. When the bars let out downtown, it’s a drunken madhouse, especially between Locust and Pine. Reports of fights and verbal attacks do little to help the scene and the clubs that cater to this sort of element are fueling it.

My advice this year- stay away from downtown Harrisburg until the businesses, the city, and the police figure out a way to clean things up.

*************

My comments:

Wow, I am very saddened to hear this news but not at all surprised. The mentality in Harrisburg overall is very, very negative and many people can’t seem to figure out how to control themselves. I have traveled the U.S. extensively and now lived in many places, and the people in Harrisburg are a breed like no other…

I wish the city the best and I sure hope they can get things under control. Without DT Harrisburg, the area really is nothing…

*Oh and I am not surprised at all the media tried to sweep this all under the rug. There is a very conservative “speak no evil” mentality in Harrisburg and this is NOT a good thing, as this does nothing to help make the problems get better.

http://www.harrisburgnightlife.com/wp/2007/07/05/advice-this-summer-avoid-downtown/

:no:

[Young Gun]

I would have to say that the majority of problems comes from customers of one particular nightclub. It is on the mayor's hit list from what I hear. When it empties at 2 all kind of evil goes down. Until then downtown is pretty chill. The mass of swirling people standing around waiting for God knows what for 30 to 40 minutes is not a good thing.

I was waiting for a friend to come out of Zembie's 2 weeks ago and witnessed an "individual" pull out a blut and start to toke up. Cops generally contain the crowd and weren't probably close enough to smell or see it. I expect that within several months that club will be closed down.

[MidtownMike]

Harrisburg's skyline to grow next year
An 18-story office, parking and retail building will go up between 200-212 N. Second St. in downtown Harrisburg.

The site is home to the Tom Sawyer Diner, Chilly Willy�s ice cream parlor, a hair salon and a psychic business.

The 210,500-square-foot building will feature retail business on the first floor, five floors of parking and 10 floors of class-A office space, said Greg Rothman, a partner with Harrisburg-based 200 N. Second Street Associates, which owns the property and will pursue the project.

The $35 million steel structure will sit on a third of an acre, will boast about 140,000-square feet of office space, 60,000 square feet of parking and will house a sky bar on the roof, said Andrew Giorgione, who is partners with Rothman, Sylvan Lutkewitte and Rick Galiardo in 200 N. Second Street Associates.

Plans have yet to be submitted to the city for approval. Giorgione expects to break ground on the building in early 2008. The project should take about 18 months to complete, Giorgione said. - Eric Veronikis, Central Penn Business Journal

[Wheelingman04]

^ Thanks for posting that.

[EastSideHBG]

Harrisburg's skyline to grow next year
An 18-story office, parking and retail building will go up between 200-212 N. Second St. in downtown Harrisburg.

The site is home to the Tom Sawyer Diner, Chilly Willy�s ice cream parlor, a hair salon and a psychic business.

The 210,500-square-foot building will feature retail business on the first floor, five floors of parking and 10 floors of class-A office space, said Greg Rothman, a partner with Harrisburg-based 200 N. Second Street Associates, which owns the property and will pursue the project.

The $35 million steel structure will sit on a third of an acre, will boast about 140,000-square feet of office space, 60,000 square feet of parking and will house a sky bar on the roof, said Andrew Giorgione, who is partners with Rothman, Sylvan Lutkewitte and Rick Galiardo in 200 N. Second Street Associates.

Plans have yet to be submitted to the city for approval. Giorgione expects to break ground on the building in early 2008. The project should take about 18 months to complete, Giorgione said. - Eric Veronikis, Central Penn Business Journal
Thank GOD someone in that city has some sense...I always shook my head in amazement when I saw prime real estate being taken up by that silly diner! :koko:

Great news for the city! That skyline has sure been getting a major shot in the arm over the years! :tup:

[Xeelee]

I agree. Looks good. :)

[crs921]

The building, to be 19-stories including the "skybar," is just what Harrisburg needs.

How about someone remodel that ugly 333 Market St. beige tower from the 1970s and/or build something even bigger?
http://www.centralpennbusiness.com/images/photos/harrisburgaxon.jpg

[EastSideHBG]

The building, to be 19-stories including the "skybar," is just what Harrisburg needs.

http://www.centralpennbusiness.com/images/photos/harrisburgaxon.jpg
Thanks for the pic! It will fit into the skyline quite nicely. And with it being so close to Front St. and almost dead center in DT when viewing from the West Shore, it is going to be a major showpiece...hopefully they stay on target and make it as grand as it seems to be in this pic! :tup:

*Keeping fingers crossed against the NIMBYs that may come out and cry that it "blocks Capitol views"* ;)

How about someone remodel that ugly 333 Market St. beige tower from the 1970s and/or build something even bigger?
:laugh: I have actually grown to "love" 333, and I think it would [hopefully one day I can say "does" instead of "would"] look interesting buried amongst more modern high-rises.

[Young Gun]

Awesome News. Don't let the GSA know or they'll want to commandeer it. How many stories is the parking garage that sits behind it? Will it be noticeable taller? I think we scared all the NIMBY's out of town with the Acore hotel proposal. They didn't put up a fight over the Barto Building conversion to a hotel.

BTW they are starting to do some prep work for the hotel. The tennants have been evicted from the buildings about 2 months ago, and they have been digging in the streets around the site for the utilities I guess. Also the University building on Market Street is starting to go up. I was busy till 10 pm the last couple of weeks, but I'll try to get around tonight to take some photos of both.

[crs921]

pics would be great of the univ. tower going up (including a skyline shot with the crane) - as well as pics of the site prep for the aloft hotel.

i am in ft lauderdale so i dont get to see how hbg is changing....

i still want to see improvements to 333 market - and i wish the 19 story building was 25 or 30 stories.

any other hbg developments in the works???

[danwxman]

I have a thread in the Under Construction forum for the Harrisburg University tower with links to live webcams, check it out. It's probably a few pages back.

[EastSideHBG]

Don't let the GSA know or they'll want to commandeer it.
LOL yeah, and decide to demolish huge swaths of thriving buildings in the process! :laugh: :koko:

Definitely looking forward to some pics, Young Gun!

I have a thread in the Under Construction forum for the Harrisburg University tower with links to live webcams, check it out. It's probably a few pages back.
I didn't even know you had that thread in there until now. Thanks, danwxman! And for those interested, it's this thread. (http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=129199)

[crs921]

no pics of Harrisburg city developments/construction? (Judicial Center, Hbg Univ tower, etc)

also, any word on when the 19-story tower on 2nd street will be approved?

[danwxman]

Midtown theater sold
The Reily Midtown Cinema building in Harrisburg has been sold. Harrisburg-based Powers & Associates bought the 10,000-square-foot building from the board of directors of the Midtown Market District, Mayor Stephen R. Reed said today in a statement.

Under the agreement, Powers will take over $395,000 in debt the district owes to the city in exchange for the building.

The cinema will continue to operate at 250 Reily St. However, Powers plans to develop a 70,000-square-foot office building at the corner of North Third and Reily streets called Campus Square. The company plans to build a new theater, which the Midtown Cinema could occupy, in the first floor of the building, according to Powers.

If preliminary lease agreements are reached, Powers hopes to break ground on Campus Square by fall.

Plans for the Reily Cinema building will relate to the construction of Campus Square, Powers President Tom Powers said in a statement.

-- Eric Veronikis

[Young Gun]

no pics of Harrisburg city developments/construction? (Judicial Center, Hbg Univ tower, etc)

also, any word on when the 19-story tower on 2nd street will be approved?

Sorry about the pics. I've been busy during the daylight hours rehabing my bedroom window.

As for construction does anyone know what is going on with the building on the Northwest corner of State and 2nd St? By city maps this is supposedly part of 202 State St but it appeared to be sold seperately. This past week "they" demolished the crappy looking 1 story addition (?) and appear to be digging a deeper hole. This is directly across State Street from the future hotel. A quick search of WCI partners website says they have a project at 202 State St. and 509 2nd Street. Which I have just realized they own that whole corner. J. Alex Hartzler sure is doing a lot of nice things in town. I hope all goes well for him.

[Young Gun]

Midtown theater sold
The Reily Midtown Cinema building in Harrisburg has been sold. Harrisburg-based Powers & Associates bought the 10,000-square-foot building from the board of directors of the Midtown Market District, Mayor Stephen R. Reed said today in a statement.

Under the agreement, Powers will take over $395,000 in debt the district owes to the city in exchange for the building.

The cinema will continue to operate at 250 Reily St. However, Powers plans to develop a 70,000-square-foot office building at the corner of North Third and Reily streets called Campus Square. The company plans to build a new theater, which the Midtown Cinema could occupy, in the first floor of the building, according to Powers.

If preliminary lease agreements are reached, Powers hopes to break ground on Campus Square by fall.

Plans for the Reily Cinema building will relate to the construction of Campus Square, Powers President Tom Powers said in a statement.

-- Eric Veronikis

I really wish they would build taller on that space and help to bring the downtown that direction. Harrisburg is landlocked it needs to build up now so it can build its tax revenue. (shameless plug to try to lower my tax bill)

I was unaware of this till I did a google search on the Midtown Market District. HYP (http://www.hyp.org/news/2004_2.asp) So it sounds like the buyout is a good thing.

[MidtownMike]

As for construction does anyone know what is going on with the building on the Northwest corner of State and 2nd St? By city maps this is supposedly part of 202 State St but it appeared to be sold seperately. This past week "they" demolished the crappy looking 1 story addition (?) and appear to be digging a deeper hole. This is directly across State Street from the future hotel. A quick search of WCI partners website says they have a project at 202 State St. and 509 2nd Street. Which I have just realized they own that whole corner. J. Alex Hartzler sure is doing a lot of nice things in town. I hope all goes well for him.

That was my doctor's office at one time (Loucas Tzanis...he died a couple of years ago).

I've heard rumors of a coffee shop or something similar moving in there.

[MidtownMike]

Authority may lease garages
The Harrisburg Parking Authority may lease a collection of downtown garages and parking lots downtown to a private firm.

The move could generate millions for the city without raising taxes, Mayor Stephen R. Reed said in a statement.

Reed and the authority issued a request for qualifications to firms interested in a long-term lease. The request requires each interested company to provide detailed information about its operations and its technical and financial abilities to lease the facilities, Reed said.

Requests for qualifications are due Sept. 6.

Reed would not say how much revenue a long-term lease could generate.

The lease would have to at least pay for the authority�s $114 million in debt he said, which would include depreciation of facilities.

Some garages, parking lots and 950 metered parking spaces will not be included in the qualifications request, Reed said. - Eric Veronikis
__________________________________

My guess is that parking fees would go up in those garages. Guess it was inevitable that they'd have to find creative ways to raise city income without raising taxes...not a bad alternative, IMHO.

[Young Gun]

The parking is pretty cheap. If it doesn't raise my taxes I'll be for it. I think we've reached the capacity of garages we need anyhow. Some of them (thinking of the one near the hospital) even closes many hours of the day. Maybe It will stay open or offer leases to the spaces?

[Young Gun]

Just on the CBS evening news tonight. The Spot will be closing in a couple of weeks. I've never ate there maybe I should so I can say I have?? Its supposedly been open for 68 years. Probably a very valuable location in today's real estate market.

[harrisburger]

this is the single most depressing thing i have heard come from harrisburg in a long time. no more late night hot dogs and fries for me.

[Young Gun]

this is the single most depressing thing i have heard come from harrisburg in a long time. no more late night hot dogs and fries for me.

The peice didn't have a lot of details but the did quote the owner saying that he'd have to charge $3.00 for a spotdog to make any money, and didn't count out reopening in another location. My guess is it was time to renegoiate the lease.

In other more cheery Harrisburg news. I was leaving town today to come to work and construction fencing is going up around the houses to be demolished for the Aloft Hotel on the corner of State and 2nd. Looks like we are about to see some progress. I wonder how much work they'll be able to do through the winter. I assume they will need to upgrade the utilities before they get underconstruction.

[crs921]

hey young gun - dont forget to take some photos of the developments going on around hbg. (im in ft lauderdale and don't get to see the progress)

id like to see the skyline with the various cranes, hbg u tower, pa judicial center construction, etc.

any news on the 19-story building on 2nd street? it seems to have gotten hush-hush.

[Young Gun]

Do you know a good vantage point to see the cranes for the university tower? I've been looking for a good spot, but almost everywhere it is almost completely obscured by other buildings closer to the river. I know when they get up a couple more stories it should grow to be able to be scene.

[EastSideHBG]

Do you know a good vantage point to see the cranes for the university tower? I've been looking for a good spot, but almost everywhere it is almost completely obscured by other buildings closer to the river. I know when they get up a couple more stories it should grow to be able to be scene.
The YWCA (Cameron and Market St.) at the top of Mt. Pleasant is a REALLY good spot for photos and you should be able to see the Univ. construction quite well from up there. You could also try the Civil War Museum at the top of Reservoir Park, but I'd save that for Winter b/c the trees can get in the way there.

RE: The Spot, I am in TOTAL shock right now and very saddened by this news! With each passing day, HBG just isn't what it used to be. Some may argue that this is a good thing but I disagree when it comes to things like this, as these places make HBG what it is.

:( :uhh:

[Preserve & Restore]

Hi guys, I was hoping to find some photos of your lovely city here but found almost none! I live in the Sonoran Desert, Arizona and would love to see what your part of the country looks like.

[Wheelingman04]

Harrisburg:
http://http://northstargallery.com/aerialphotography/aerial003web.jpg

[Wheelingman04]

dp

[crs921]

C'mon guys, help a guy out! :)
Id like to see skyline pics with the cranes as well as progress photos of the new judicial center by the capitol, the univ. tower, and any signage or preliminary work for the 19 story tower (rumored now to be 24 stories) and the aloft hotel on 2nd st.

email me pics - crs921@gmail.com or post them here.

[Young Gun]

Pic of the demolition on the corner of 202 State

http://jerchamberlin.myphotoalbum.com/view_photo.php?set_albumName=album01&id=IMG_1333

Pic of the progress of new garage and begining of site prep of Hotel.

http://jerchamberlin.myphotoalbum.com/view_photo.php?set_albumName=album01&id=IMG_1332

Crs921, you'll have to enjoy the second pic. No sky crane, but it is a crane. You'll have your pics soon. I finally finished my window of my room. Sorry it took higher priority. I took these this morning on the way out of town.


Pic of the windows. I live in a historical area. I couldn't bear to remove the old windows. Here they are restored to better than their old glory. (they have real seals and double pane glass too!)
http://jerchamberlin.myphotoalbum.com/view_photo.php?set_albumName=album01&id=IMG_1325

[Young Gun]

Sorry if the pics aren't great. The battary was dying and I just stuck the camara out the window. Couldn't see the screen.

[crs921]

pics are great, thanks! i cant wait to see the rest.

[Young Gun]

C'mon guys, help a guy out! :)
Id like to see skyline pics with the cranes as well as progress photos of the new judicial center by the capitol, the univ. tower, and any signage or preliminary work for the 19 story tower (rumored now to be 24 stories) and the aloft hotel on 2nd st.

email me pics - crs921@gmail.com or post them here.

where did you hear the rumor of 24 stories? is that 24 plus the skybar? If so depending on the ceiling heights it could be a new tallest for Harrisburg. 333 Market is 25 stories if I remember correctly. It concerns me that the info on this building aren't coming through normal media outlets. I haven't seen any signage. I don't think Tom Sawyer's would like that might hurt business.

[Preserve & Restore]

Thanks YoungGun! I like photo number 8, the straight shot of the courthouse. I like how your downtown still retains a historic feel.

Others may disagree with me, and who am I to say anything, but I hope that your downtown never looks like Hong Kong, with all historical buildings demolished below wall-to-wall highrises. You guys need to cherish and defend your downtown.

And perhaps our generation of people is careless about the value of such historic & "boring" structures. Perhaps our teens could care less.

But there may come a day, 25 years from now, or even 40 years from now, where people will look to "Americana" as a nourishing material for civic pride.

YoungGun, I like the fact that you kept the historic windows.

Does anyone else have photos to showcase your city?

[danwxman]

www.beyondsecond.com

[Young Gun]

Thanks YoungGun! I like photo number 8, the straight shot of the courthouse. I like how your downtown still retains a historic feel.

Others may disagree with me, and who am I to say anything, but I hope that your downtown never looks like Hong Kong, with all historical buildings demolished below wall-to-wall highrises. You guys need to cherish and defend your downtown.

And perhaps our generation of people is careless about the value of such historic & "boring" structures. Perhaps our teens could care less.

But there may come a day, 25 years from now, or even 40 years from now, where people will look to "Americana" as a nourishing material for civic pride.

YoungGun, I like the fact that you kept the historic windows.

Does anyone else have photos to showcase your city?


Actually that is a shot of the State Capital. Much of the new construction (highrises) in Harrisburg is going on within 5 blocks of the Capital. However we haven't lost any historic buildings to construction. Harrisburg (for good or bad) is very defensive of it historic districts, and it has a lot of them.

Map of historic districts (http://harrisburgpa.gov/bhDevelopment/downloads/planning/nrHDBldgs.pdf)

Thanks for the link to beyond second. I'll have to take a look at it during lunchtime.

[danwxman]

HACC to open new campus in Harrisburg's midtown
Posted by John Luciew/The Patriot-News August 16, 2007 16:06PM
Categories: Breaking News, Dauphin County, Education, Midstate

Harrisburg's midtown neighborhood is about to become a mini college town.

Beginning Monday, with the opening of Harrisburg Area Community College's campus at Third and Reily streets, the area of small shops, mom-and-pop eateries and quaint townhouses will get an injection of up to 700 college students.

Over the next several years, the number of students is expected to grow to 2,500.

It's a sea change for midtown, known mostly for the Broad Street Market and the Midtown Cinema art house theater.

"It's really hard to imagine," said Eric Papenfuse, owner of the nearby Midtown Scholar Bookstore. "We're going from a streetscape of 50 people to 2,000 to 3,000 people. It's almost impossible to envision that. It's a major transformation of the neighborhood, and it's exciting."

Already, Papenfuse said he's plotting expansion plans, and he's betting other area business owners are doing the same.

"We're going from nothing to everything in a very short period of time," he said.

For developer Powers & Associates of Harrisburg, which fronted the $17 million to turn the former Evangelical Press building into a first class facility for HACC's industrial technology trade programs, the project is just the first step in a master plan to remake midtown.

The company plans this fall to break ground on a 65,000-square-foot office and retail complex proposed for just across Reily street from the 130,000-square-foot HACC building.

That four-story building would boast first-floor retail to support the influx of students, with everything from pizza shops to coffee houses possible. Meanwhile, office space on the upper floors might become home to branch sites for other colleges, where two-year HACC grads can work on four-year degrees.

In addition, Powers has reached a deal to purchase the building that houses the Midtown Cinema at 250 Reily Street, while other projects will include building or renovating residential housing in the area, with a total of 1 million-square-feet of new construction possible.

"If I am a professor here and someone builds a nice townhouse in the neighborhood, I might consider moving here," said Powers' chief operating officer John Tierney, explaining the synergy the company sees driving midtown development.

To house the students expected to flock to the area, Mayor Stephen R. Reed has said the city would issue a request for proposals from private companies to build and lease as many as 300 apartment units. This is separate from the Powers project.

HACC is hoping to grow along with the neighborhood. The new building more than doubles HACC's presence in midtown, where it had operated its Community Center for Technology at North Fourth and Harris streets. That site will be renovated and expanded, while HACC's building and trade programs move to the new facility.

"Once people see the inside of this building, they are going to be astounded," said Edward Burns, chair of HACC's technologies department. "The lab areas are almost twice the size of what we had."

And if you happen to see students climbing onto the roof, don't worry; it's all part of the HVAC course. A collection of air conditioning condensers on the building's roof is actually a classroom, where students will have to climb up and work.

"The lab is on the roof, just like in the real word," added Burns, who teaches a HVAC course. "Students will go up the side of the building. If they can't go up a ladder, they might want to consider another field."

[crs921]

still waiting for those harrisburg skyline pics with all of the cranes and construction going on.......:)

[Young Gun]

still waiting for those harrisburg skyline pics with all of the cranes and construction going on.......:)

Then today is your day. I took Eastsides advice and went up to the YMCA, unfortuantely it was a little hazy today.

Here is a pic centered on University Tower. The frame isn't above the surrounding buildings yet.

University crane (http://jerchamberlin.myphotoalbum.com/view_photo.php?set_albumName=album01&id=IMG_1336)

A pic with judical center and on right and University on left

Judicial/University (http://jerchamberlin.myphotoalbum.com/view_photo.php?set_albumName=album01&id=IMG_1337)

Centered on Judicial center

Judicial Center (http://jerchamberlin.myphotoalbum.com/view_photo.php?set_albumName=album01&id=IMG_1338_001)

I was driving down Cameron to take some photos of the completed HACC building and discovered this is under construction. It was discussed several pages back. Pity it was built up, but at least it is some infill that looks like it will resemble urban construction.

Construction (http://jerchamberlin.myphotoalbum.com/view_photo.php?set_albumName=album01&id=IMG_1340)

The sign (http://jerchamberlin.myphotoalbum.com/view_photo.php?set_albumName=album01&id=IMG_1342)

Another crane ;) (http://jerchamberlin.myphotoalbum.com/view_photo.php?set_albumName=album01&id=IMG_1341)

Now a few of HACC. Really tiddies up that section of Midtown. I hope some of those parking lots eventually get converted to buildings. With the rate of expansion of the College are they thinking of becoming a University at some point?

Note the security camara (http://jerchamberlin.myphotoalbum.com/view_photo.php?set_albumName=album01&id=IMG_1343)

A shot inside. (http://jerchamberlin.myphotoalbum.com/view_photo.php?set_albumName=album01&id=IMG_1349)

Entrance facing Boas Street (http://jerchamberlin.myphotoalbum.com/view_photo.php?set_albumName=album01&id=IMG_1350)

A parking lot in the area (http://jerchamberlin.myphotoalbum.com/view_photo.php?set_albumName=album01&id=IMG_1351)

[crs921]

wow that is fantastic - thank you so much. it makes me want to move back. i love that so much progress is going on!

let me know in a few months if they start building the aloft hotel and/or that 19 or 24 story tower on 2nd street that became really quiet lately.

again, thanks! you rock... you should do a photo website!

[crs921]

i really appreciate your time to take those pics

[Young Gun]

wow that is fantastic - thank you so much. it makes me want to move back. i love that so much progress is going on!

let me know in a few months if they start building the aloft hotel and/or that 19 or 24 story tower on 2nd street that became really quiet lately.

again, thanks! you rock... you should do a photo website!


posted on 8-15-2007 is the begining of progress on the Aloft. They have fenced off the building to be demolished and it appears that they have taken stuff out of the interior. I was told by a former tennant, that looked at one of my units that it was to be demolished after the parking garage is finished. It looks like they are topping out the top floor now so it might be anyday.

[Young Gun]

if anyone wants a full resolution picture, (5MB, not sure what the resolution is on that, but the website automatically downsizes it) let me know. I have them saved on my home computer.

[EastSideHBG]

Nice pics, Young Gun! DT HBG is looking good. Now if they could just get in some RESIDENTIAL towers...

:)

[Young Gun]

with at much infill as Harrisburg still needs It'll probably be at least another 5 years before anyone proposes a tower. Besides there's tones of Warehouses along Cameron that scream lofts!!

[EastSideHBG]

with at much infill as Harrisburg still needs It'll probably be at least another 5 years before anyone proposes a tower. Besides there's tones of Warehouses along Cameron that scream lofts!!
The sad thing is that where HBG Univ.'s tower is going up now, that was supposed to be HBG's new tallest and it was RESIDENTIAL condos; heck if you go back through this thread you can probably find the articles about it. But the city screwed around, things fell apart (as they usually do in HBG) and the developer backed out. I'm glad to see something useful going in that spot now, but I wonder if a residential tower would've been better in the long run; the Univ. could've relocated elsewhere quite easily IMO.

The thing that is good but yet bad at the same time is that HBG's DT is and has always been primarily a business center, and being pushed even more so with these new projects. These new hotels are great, but there needs to be more down there (and open past a certain time) for people to want to stay downtown when they, well, stay downtown! :)

[Young Gun]

I don't know. I think commercial and residential will grow around the downtown. I could see a retail district forming in the Reily street area or maybe along cameron where there is a lot of great buildings still sitting empty that would provide low cost incubator for the inital business to open up.