[Young Gun]

Eastside, just to update you. The ramp is still open. According to the radio one of the neccessary peices of equipment didn't arrive so they couldn't open the new temporary ramp.

[EastSideHBG]

Eastside, just to update you. The ramp is still open. According to the radio one of the neccessary peices of equipment didn't arrive so they couldn't open the new temporary ramp.
Okay, thanks for the update!

A mere 5-stories, yet touting the wonderful views from the upper floors?!? You have got to be kidding me LOL

It's a nice looking building and I am glad to FINALLY see some movement on the NGP, but they could do much better than this. :(

[Young Gun]

You have a point. Although I have thought that a building of similar stature to this project would have some nice views of the city if built in the Alison Hill region. The property to build it on would probably go pretty cheap too.

[Plompy Lfeata]

i was in harrisburg this weekend and theres still a crane up that was up like, 3 monthes ago when i was there and there still isnt anything above the skyline (from a west shore veiw) is whatevers being built ever gonna be part of the skyline?

[Young Gun]

As you looked from the west shore was it to the left of the Capital? If so that crane is doing work on the judical center at the Capital Complex. It won't be rising above the skyline. The reason it is there so long is the building has extensive stone work that must be lifted into place. The frame has been up for a long time (many months), but they are only about half to 3/4 of the way up with the masonary. The building will fit in very well with the surroundings.

[yosh]

I have decided to document the status of major development projects in Harrisburg. To accomplish this, I have begun the Harrisburg Development Page (http://karnsquality.com/harrisburg-development-page/). None of the information hosted there is new. It all has been recorded in press releases, newspaper articles, and public records. This information has not been consolidated into one place, until now! I plan to keep it updated, and I look forward to your tips for new or missed projects or updates. In the future, you’ll always find a link to it in my sidebar.

http://karnsquality.com/harrisburg-development-page/

[EastSideHBG]

I have decided to document the status of major development projects in Harrisburg. To accomplish this, I have begun the Harrisburg Development Page (http://karnsquality.com/harrisburg-development-page/). None of the information hosted there is new. It all has been recorded in press releases, newspaper articles, and public records. This information has not been consolidated into one place, until now! I plan to keep it updated, and I look forward to your tips for new or missed projects or updates. In the future, you’ll always find a link to it in my sidebar.

http://karnsquality.com/harrisburg-development-page/
WOW, what a cool site and thanks for sharing, yosh! Welcome aboard, and talk about an entrance! :)

I have added your site to the first page w/ the project rundown and credited you. If I forgot anything major on there, please let me know, everyone. You all are my eyes and ears, seeing as I don't live there anymore and go back twice a year (if that LOL). ;)

[Young Gun]

This one isn't on the first page although it was referenced several times in the past on this thread.

This one also didn't make Pennlive.com

The business section of Patriot News has more information about the 36,000sq. ft. building to go on 3003 N. Front street. It is supposedly about to finalize leases for 78% of the building. Will have parking for 72 cars. The article claims that there is not a lot of space available to downtown development. I can't really agree with that. I can site several very promising spots right now. Probably not at a competitive price though. This building is one block North of where they wouldn't let Mary Knackstedt build the condos.

Reed is quoted as saying:

We're essentially out of land in downtown. This is a predicament we haven't had for 60 or 70 years.

He goes on to spout a bit about the Southern Gateway, and his desire to push downtown towards front and Paxton Streets. I guess it is time for me to buy properties on Washington Street and other South Front street properties.... heheh

[EastSideHBG]

Uh, what?!? Further proof that the Mayor is definitely losing it LOL There are TONS of parcels and opportunities left in DT. I mean come on, they even found one in a prime spot in the not too distant past to dump a freakin' crappy trailer on it and call it a "diner". :laugh:

One thing I absolutely despise about Harrisburg: many of the people don't live in reality, and like to fabricate the truth. To say, "We're essentially out of land in downtown. This is a predicament we haven't had for 60 or 70 years," is laughable at best.

[Young Gun]

Well easily available LARGE plots are gone. And with the obsinate council killing anything in the downtown area that destroys historic buildings I see that there is room running out. but there are several condemed buildings in the downtown that should be ripe for demolition and rebuilding. Not telling where they are at though.

That brings me to the historic areas of downtown. I realize that they were inacted to stabilize the neighborhood when the city was on hard times, but in some areas they should now allow reconsideration. I mean anything South of Forester along 2nd Street should be allowed to be rebuilt unless it has a specific architectural value. I can't think of too many along second that this applies to. Maybe the house part of the Belco building and the building on the corners of state street. I would oppose demolition of the senic side streets between 2nd and front as they have a nice neighborhood feel. I believe it is the best interest of the city to try to push the downtown development towards Cameron rather than towards the river.


Lets not forget the "diner" is on borrowed time. I hope that they don't have to wait on lease deals to secure the financing for the 212 tower.

[chris.butcher]

I have a few pictures of the new units referred to in this article. I'm on the road right now, but will be home next week and will post the pics for everyone to see. This area is walking distance from me, so its easy to get pics.

Here are the photos of the Old Uptown development project I mentioned previously. Hope you guys like 'em!

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3029/2517734392_d119d1c9d5.jpg
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2278/2516907093_614b3922bb.jpg
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2399/2513156712_482a4d79e5.jpg
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3021/2513190154_56d226e6f5.jpg
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2275/2512372857_59004bfdda.jpg

Btw, when I voted in the PA primary a month ago, I actually met Alex Hartzler, of WCI Partners. He seems like a real cool guy. I thanked him for his investment in Harrisburg [i.e. the Aloft Hotel and the Old Uptown project] and he was very modest and gracious about the projects. If Harrisburg had just a few more believers like Mr. Hartzler, I think we'd be on the fast track to great projects and even better development in the City.

[EastSideHBG]

Here are the photos of the Old Uptown development project I mentioned previously. Hope you guys like 'em!

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3029/2517734392_d119d1c9d5.jpg
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2278/2516907093_614b3922bb.jpg
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2399/2513156712_482a4d79e5.jpg
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3021/2513190154_56d226e6f5.jpg
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2275/2512372857_59004bfdda.jpg

Btw, when I voted in the PA primary a month ago, I actually met Alex Hartzler, of WCI Partners. He seems like a real cool guy. I thanked him for his investment in Harrisburg [i.e. the Aloft Hotel and the Old Uptown project] and he was very modest and gracious about the projects. If Harrisburg had just a few more believers like Mr. Hartzler, I think we'd be on the fast track to great projects and even better development in the City.
Wow, what classy developments and they blend in quite nicely...I am impressed! :tup: Thanks for the pics, Chris. Do you happen to know what they are selling for?

[chris.butcher]

Wow, what classy developments and they blend in quite nicely...I am impressed! :tup: Thanks for the pics, Chris. Do you happen to know what they are selling for?

The price rumors I've heard is $100,000 and up, but I'd like to verify that. They seem worth more than that, to me, but I haven't been inside the model yet. I do know that they are selling like crazy. As a matter of fact, the day I took the photos, there was only one unit not sold.

To me, this is proof that there is quite a demand for "quality" housing in the city. Too much of the available housing is in need of renovation and modernization. To the extent that buyers and developers can do that somewhat economically, then I think Midtown is a GREAT area to buy property. However, what is sad is the lack of empty building lots, like those that WCI Partners built on at Pfeffer and Green Sts. You have to take buildings down first and that is a hard sell to City Council.

Once you get west of Third Street, there are plenty of empty lots, but much of that is being developed by Struever Bros. of Baltimore, MD, and it is a completely different kind of development than the Old Uptown project. Struever Bros.' development is known as Capitol Heights and there is more of an emphasis on single family homes and more modest townhouses. Their website: http://www.sber.com/harrisburg/capitol_heights.php says they've sold and built 176 homes with 44 more on the way. Who knew Harrisburg was ready for that?!

[danwxman]

Wow, what classy developments and they blend in quite nicely...I am impressed! :tup: Thanks for the pics, Chris. Do you happen to know what they are selling for?

My friend just bought a house on Penn street (not one of the new ones). He looked into the new Old Uptown houses and they were selling for $189,000 and up.

[chris.butcher]

My friend just bought a house on Penn street (not one of the new ones). He looked into the new Old Uptown houses and they were selling for $189,000 and up.

Thanks for the update, danwxman. I thought I'd heard that too, but wasn't sure that is right. I think that's a very respectable price, but its a lot knowing parking is on street. The ones at Capitol Heights at least have parking in the rear or a rear yard. I think the Old Uptown ones don't have either. Still, if you can get $190,000 then that also says good things about the City and the need for quality housing.

[danwxman]

Thanks for the update, danwxman. I thought I'd heard that too, but wasn't sure that is right. I think that's a very respectable price, but its a lot knowing parking is on street. The ones at Capitol Heights at least have parking in the rear or a rear yard. I think the Old Uptown ones don't have either. Still, if you can get $190,000 then that also says good things about the City and the need for quality housing.

Actually, they each have a one-car parking garage around back. Take a walk behind the units sometime. Nice back decks as well. The houses around the corner on Delaware street are a bit smaller but totally rehabbed and going for less than $120,000. I think its a great deal.

[EastSideHBG]

Thanks for the info, guys! I'm actually a little surprised they are selling that high right out of the gate and this does say good things about the city for sure, considering that the property taxes in the city are very high in comparison to the surrounding 'burbs.

Midtown is a cool place, definitely up and coming and there certainly is A LOT of potential but it still needs some work before people totally buy into it. My sister lives on 4th near Harris and hearing gunshots is quite common during the summer, and her car has been vandalized a few times already. Also, like you said chris, the numerous vacant lots need to have something done with them.

But these are all things that can be fixed and I am happy to see the direction HBG is going in. A little too slow for my tastes, but small steps forward is definitely something! :tup:

[chris.butcher]

Actually, they each have a one-car parking garage around back. Take a walk behind the units sometime. Nice back decks as well. The houses around the corner on Delaware street are a bit smaller but totally rehabbed and going for less than $120,000. I think its a great deal.

I must thank you for your thorough knowledge of this subject and for correcting my inaccuracies. I should do a more thorough job of researching these things, obviously! :) I am now MORE impressed with these townhouses since they have parking and decks. I could not see paying 190- for something without off-street parking and/or a back yard and/or deck. Alex Hartzler strikes me as a class act: professional and earnest and WCI Partners seems to have those same qualities.

Here's an observation about Harrisburg, that may be a bit "controversial", but valid, I feel: since John Vartan's death, it seems that the City has moved forward much better and much bigger and with more diversity in regard to development. I believed that Vartan held us back, even though he did do a couple of interesting projects early on. Now, WCI Partners, Struever Bros. and others can get a fair shot at development in the City. Anyone else feel this way?

[Young Gun]

Chris,

I was not around the city in Vartan's days so I have no opinion, sorry. I drove by the new townhomes and they have nice backs and off street parking but no back yard. Honestly probably not something that someone buying in the city cares about though, and most new condo projects lack a propriety backyard too so that is competitive. The restored homes supposedly start in the low $100k and the new townhomes as reported above. Capital Heights starts in the $180's as well, but if you get any options (upgrades on kitchens, etc.) it will easily sell better than $200k So the Hartzler project in competitvely priced, and I think the styling is better than Capital Heights, imho. The city is on firm foundations and I think the economy and the surge in gas prices will help it continue on its current path.

Where is that store you took the picture of located? It looks like it was renovated.

[crs921]

NEW HARRISBURG ALOFT LINK


http://www.starwoodhotels.com/alofthotels/property/overview/index.html?propertyID=3111

ALSO - www.harrisburgaloft.com

[EastSideHBG]

Here's an observation about Harrisburg, that may be a bit "controversial", but valid, I feel: since John Vartan's death, it seems that the City has moved forward much better and much bigger and with more diversity in regard to development. I believed that Vartan held us back, even though he did do a couple of interesting projects early on. Now, WCI Partners, Struever Bros. and others can get a fair shot at development in the City. Anyone else feel this way?
I don't think Vartan held the city back, it was the politics around Vartan that did. He had some amazing projects and ideas (Forum Place for example, which was set to be one of the tallest buildings on the east coast at that time; look what you have now instead thanks to politics and petty squabbling:(). Vartan was very stubborn and so was the Mayor, so you always had these deadlocks that tied projects up and they never went anywhere. Then the tit for tat started with parcels of land...

With Vartan's passing, it opened the dialog back up again with his company which was desperately needed. It's a shame it took that to make it happen.

[MidtownMike]

Meadow to replace alley in Midtown
by LAUREN BOYER, Of The Patriot-News
Tuesday May 27, 2008, 3:00 PM

A block-long park and walkway will replace an alley near Harrisburg Area Community College's Midtown campus. Full of trees and greenery, the park will replace Boyd Street between the 1500 blocks of North Third and North Fourth streets.

C.J. Elder, president of the neighborhood development group Friends of Midtown, said the meadow will give a "sense of renewal" to the alley. "I'm a firm believer in greening up spaces," Elder said. "It's always better to add a tree than to add a parking lot."

Matt Tunnell, senior vice president of Power and Associates, said the meadow will be good for pedestrians. "It will make the street narrower, which will help to slow traffic down," he said.

Utility lines will be moved underground, Tunnell added. Trees, native grasses, bushes, benches, trash cans and decorative pavement will be put in.

The $750,000 project is to be finished this summer.

[Young Gun]

Is HACC trying to turn that into a campus like atmosphere up there? To me it seems like all of the manuvering that HACC is doing that they are trying to set themselves up to move towards a university.

Who is paying for all of this?

[Mrmidtown]

I noticed that this project has been very sluggish.

Capital View Center in financial trouble
by DAN MILLER, Of The Patriot News
Wednesday June 04, 2008, 2:50 PM
Work looks to have all but stopped at Capital View Commerce Center, a $28 million building at Cameron and Herr streets that had been under construction since September, 2006.

Contractors on the project have filed liens seeking payment of a total of $3.3 million from Cameron Real Estate LP, listed as the owner of the center in documents filed in Dauphin County Courthouse.

David R. Dodd II, general contractor for the project, has not returned phone calls concerning the status of the 215,000-square-foot building. Dodd's printing company, Advanced Communications, was to occupy 115,000 square feet of the center.

The company is now in Penbrook.Herre Brothers of Enola filed two liens on May 7 seeking $1.2 million from Cameron Real Estate. The claims are for work Herre completed at the site through April 21. Herre stopped working on the site at that time, citing the lack of payment from Cameron Real Estate.

Rick McBride, president and CEO of Herre Brothers, today said his company has received no payment for several months from Cameron Real Estate.

McBride said he could not answer a question about the status of the project. He referred the question to Dodd.

"Most of the subcontractors have pulled off" the site, McBride said. McBride said he anticipates Herre's claim against Cameron will soon be updated to reflect that Cameron now owes the company more money than when the lien was first filed.

Today lights could be seen turned on inside the building. A few men could be seen walking around the building in hardhats and construction trailers remain on site. But there were no visible signs of any work being done on the building itself.

Other contractors who to date have filed liens against Cameron Real Estate are Weaver's Glass and Building Specialties of Harrisburg, H&R Mechanical of Middletown and Joseph Stong Inc. Fire Protection of Chester.

All of the firms filing claims had stopped work at the site before or by May 8. The companies entered into contracts with Cameron Real Estate in October 2007, according to court documents.

[MidtownMike]

I thought I was imagining things. Guess things are "slowing" down, as in stopped. Wonder what's going to happen here...there is quite a structure there. Will they just let it sit?


I noticed that this project has been very sluggish.

Capital View Center in financial trouble
by DAN MILLER, Of The Patriot News
Wednesday June 04, 2008, 2:50 PM
Work looks to have all but stopped at Capital View Commerce Center, a $28 million building at Cameron and Herr streets that had been under construction since September, 2006.

Contractors on the project have filed liens seeking payment of a total of $3.3 million from Cameron Real Estate LP, listed as the owner of the center in documents filed in Dauphin County Courthouse.

David R. Dodd II, general contractor for the project, has not returned phone calls concerning the status of the 215,000-square-foot building. Dodd's printing company, Advanced Communications, was to occupy 115,000 square feet of the center.

The company is now in Penbrook.Herre Brothers of Enola filed two liens on May 7 seeking $1.2 million from Cameron Real Estate. The claims are for work Herre completed at the site through April 21. Herre stopped working on the site at that time, citing the lack of payment from Cameron Real Estate.

Rick McBride, president and CEO of Herre Brothers, today said his company has received no payment for several months from Cameron Real Estate.

McBride said he could not answer a question about the status of the project. He referred the question to Dodd.

"Most of the subcontractors have pulled off" the site, McBride said. McBride said he anticipates Herre's claim against Cameron will soon be updated to reflect that Cameron now owes the company more money than when the lien was first filed.

Today lights could be seen turned on inside the building. A few men could be seen walking around the building in hardhats and construction trailers remain on site. But there were no visible signs of any work being done on the building itself.

Other contractors who to date have filed liens against Cameron Real Estate are Weaver's Glass and Building Specialties of Harrisburg, H&R Mechanical of Middletown and Joseph Stong Inc. Fire Protection of Chester.

All of the firms filing claims had stopped work at the site before or by May 8. The companies entered into contracts with Cameron Real Estate in October 2007, according to court documents.

[Young Gun]

I thought I was imagining things. Guess things are "slowing" down, as in stopped. Wonder what's going to happen here...there is quite a structure there. Will they just let it sit?


This sucks, I haven't been by the building recently. Is the facade up? I assume that the building will be sold. There is quite a structure there the last time I was by in the fall. If significant work has been completed someone could get a very nice building at quite a discount.

[EastSideHBG]

/\
Wow, another failure on that lot (but truth be told, at least this project got much further than the others). I still think this was a TOTAL waste of a nice parcel of land...I saw something like Pittsburgh's Station Square there. Just imagine...imagine...

[EastSideHBG]

This is an unfortunate email I received today from a friend of a friend. I figured it was worth posting here so you guys can be careful and on the lookout when out and about!


Hi *****,

Just to let you know, I was mugged last night at about 2300hrs at Penn and Boas. We felt something was not right, tried to avoid a situation, but they were waiting for us.

I was shoved against a building and had what only I could assume was a gun being pressed against the back of my head. The culprits, 2 male african americans (one about 6' 3", the other about 5' 10") wearing light colored clothing and driving a dark (presumably black) older american made sedan made away with about $80, an ATM card and my house and car keys.

My buddy escaped the situation and was able to call 911. After a 1/2 hour wait for the police to show up we were interviewed...

Just thought you'd like to know and spread the word.

****

[Young Gun]

I guess Midtown isn't 100% turned around yet.

[Evergrey]

I doubt the situation at Harrisburg international will improve considering the airline industry is heading towards catastrophe

http://www.bizjournals.com/pittsburgh/stories/2008/06/09/focus1.html?b=1212984000^1645577

Harrisburg's ultra-modern airport operates at half capacity with 100 daily flights

Pittsburgh Business Times - by Kim Lyons

Despite its barely 4-year-old, ultra-modern airport, Harrisburg still struggles to take off with some businesses.

The proximity of Pennsylvania's state capital to other major northeast cities is a draw for some companies to put offices there, and many businesses say doing business in Harrisburg, with its low cost of living and relatively stable economy, is pleasant enough.

But the airport's lack of reach poses a challenge, enough that many make the hour-and-a-half drive to Baltimore-Washington airport in Maryland, rather than try to make a connecting flight out of Harrisburg.

"You can get flights anywhere in Pennsylvania easily, but most of the time, I drive to Pittsburgh, Philadelphia, or Baltimore-Washington," said John Quain, co-managing shareholder of the Harrisburg office of Pittsburgh law firm Buchanan Ingersoll & Rooney PC. "There's not a lot of availability and variety of flights out of Harrisburg."

It qualifies as an international airport because it has a daily flight to Toronto, and has U.S. Customs facilities on site. Its $80 million, post-Sept. 11 overhaul has seven major airlines that fly about 100 flights daily, spokesman Scott Miller said. But Harrisburg International only offers flights as far west as Dallas/Fort Worth.

"We could handle twice the amount of traffic, but we need a partner who understands and realizes that," Miller said. "With a little break, we have the potential to really grow."

Harrisburg was the first airport to open after Sept. 11 with new government safety standards in place.

The new airport opened in August of 2004, two and a half years after the renovation project started.

However, Harrisburg International still lags behind its neighbors in terms of passenger volume.

The slashing of flights to Pittsburgh by US Airways -- it used to have six a day, now it has two -- didn't help, Miller said.

On average, the Harrisburg airport has about 2,500 departing seats per day, compared with 50,000 at Philadelphia International, Miller said.

Last year it handled between 1.2 million and 1.3 million passengers, he said.

One problem might be fares.

Looking at Harrisburg's top 15 domestic destinations for 2007, Harrisburg fares are, on average, 34 percent higher than those at BWI, according to FareReport.com.

The average one-way fare from BWI to Chicago is $129, compared with $239 from Harrisburg.

But Chris Detweiler, a Realtor with the Harrisburg office of Howard Hanna Real Estate Services Inc., said he doesn't see the airport as a detriment.

"I might if I had a job where I had to travel all over the country," Detweiler said.

But he said he and his wife are regular leisure travelers, who don't mind finding connecting flights at other airports to Europe.

"If I hit traffic on the way to Pittsburgh (International Airport), it may take longer to get there than just flying out of Harrisburg," he said. "There's never any lines, and it's really a breeze to get out of there easily."

Detweiler said the affordable housing in the region more than makes up for whatever trouble the airport might cause.

But Miller said the Harrisburg region appears to suffer from a bit of an identity crisis; while Harrisburg's official site refers to itself as the Center City area, the state's tourism office bills the eight-county region surrounding Harrisburg as "PA Dutch Country."

Miller said that designation may be great for Lancaster County, which seeks to attract tourists who want to see Amish people driving horse-drawn buggies, but probably is not as appealing to large companies doing business in Downtown Harrisburg.

"One of the challenges we face from a marketing standpoint is the perception: Central Pennsylvania isn't all farmland and rolling hills," Miller said. "When you look at all its ZIP codes, this is a 150,000-person city."

Miller also thinks a lack of cohesion among the counties surrounding Harrisburg hurts the airport's chances of becoming the economic engine it could be.

Thinking regionally doesn't come as readily to residents in the eight-county region surrounding Harrisburg as it does to Philadelphia and Pittsburgh, Miller said; he sees the area as somewhat parochial, which makes marketing the area's collective amenities difficult.

"You would think the Susquehanna River was the Great Wall of China," he said.

klyons@bizjournals.com | (412) 208-3827

[EastSideHBG]

Those quotes in bold are DEAD ON!!!

HIA is a nice airport but always pretty dead, will now be even more so and I'm not even sure it was ever worth having unfortunately...

[PaSkyX]

Yeah, HIA is pretty useless. My mom never flies out of there - always BWI, or with the price of gas/convenience, Philly these days.

[Evergrey]

PNC Bank's May 2008 economic forecast for Metro Harrisburg:

https://www.pnc.com/webapp/unsec/Requester?resource=/wcm/resources/file/eb5fd0007d9865b/Harrisburg.pdf

[Xeelee]

I would imagine that less traffic would make things better for the travelers? :)

[Young Gun]

Xeelee, I like the low traffic volume. Same reason I like BWI over Dulles, the two airports I used to frequent before I moved to Harrisburg. I dropped off a friend once 30 minutes before his flight cause we got stuck in a massive citywide traffic jam from the south and within 10 minutes I was home to my house (using more local roads) and he was on his plane awaiting takeoff. I can get a cheap taxi ride or bum a ride to the airport. when I figure in gas and parking fees at another airport the 34% increase isn't that big of a deal. You have to remember it is 34% on a pretty cheap ticket as like the article stated they aren't long flights.

Evergrey, very nice read... Much of what I expected.

In Today's Patriot News (print adition):
- City buys new cop cars, expects 37% savings in fuel prices on cars. It is adding 53 vehicles and will be navy blue with gold lettering. article didn't specify the current number of cars to be retired, but stated that there would be more patrols on street and lower response time on calls

-Front pages news was the attack EastSide spoke about above

[MidtownMike]

CENTER'S WOES
City project awaits solution for money problems
Monday, June 23, 2008
BY DAN MILLER
Of The Patriot-News

Capitol View Commerce Center was touted as the cure for a blighted property on one of Harrisburg's busiest roads.

The sparkling $28 million office complex was to replace a 10-acre brownfield at Cameron and Herr streets that had been vacant or underused since Tropical Storm Agnes in 1972.

Now, the project is in jeopardy of becoming an eye-sore.

Construction has come to a halt at the center, which is about three-quarters complete. Contractors left the site in May, leaving behind prominent signs of unfinished work for passing motorists -- jutting steel beams, garish white and yellow insulation and a glass wall that resembles a fighter missing a few teeth.

At last count eight contractors have filed liens in Dauphin County Court, claiming they haven't been paid for months by center owner and developer David R. Dodd II.

No signs are evident that work will resume anytime soon.

Amounts sought in the courthouse liens by contractors against Cameron Real Estate LP, of which Dodd is general partner, range from nearly $75,000 to more than $1.2 million.

Dodd did not respond to a request for comment.

The center has public funding commitments totaling about $17 million, including federal money from U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development. The state has pledged $6.8 million, and Dauphin County has extended a $3 million loan.

Commerce Bank/Harrisburg is providing bank funding.

On June 12, a meeting was held between Commerce and Harrisburg officials to try to restart the project. The city had been a conduit to manage the flow of project dollars from the various sources to Dodd, so Dodd could pay the contractors.

City spokesman Matthew Coulter, in an e-mailed statement Friday, said the city and others involved in the center are awaiting information on a possible bridge loan from Commerce to resume the project.

Rory G. Ritrievi, market president for Commerce Bank/Harrisburg, confirmed Commerce's role as providing funding. Beyond that he said little else, citing privacy regulations governing the bank-client relationship.

"All the funding sources are working together to try and get this project completed and to have the contractors paid what is owed them. Whether that happens or not is still up in the air," Ritrievi said. "It's not a matter of Commerce taking charge or responsibility for the project. We just have a seat at the table."

Kevin Ortiz, spokesman for the state Department of Community and Economic Development, said the state hasn't changed any of its funding commitments to the center.

Timothy Woolford, a Lancaster attorney, is representing H&R Mechanical. The Middletown-based company filed its lien in court on May 8 seeking payment of $1.2 million from Dodd. Woolford said nothing has happened.

"No payments have been made and we are becoming less confident that a source of funding is in place to pay past due invoices," Woolford said.

H&R's contract was at least 80 percent complete when the company stopped on May 7. Woolford said H&R won't return until the $1.2 million is paid and his client is assured of future payments "in a timely fashion."

Woolford said he cannot understand why the city didn't require Dodd, acting as his own project general contractor, to post a bond to guarantee payment to the contractors. Woolford said that is standard for publicly funded construction projects, although this project is a mix of private and public money.

Woolford last week filed more court papers intended to force a sheriff's sale of the center to compel payment.

DAN MILLER: 255-8440 or danmiller@patriot-news.com

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[Young Gun]

I think a Sheriff sale might be the best thing for that property. at 75% complete I think it would be a compelling purchase for an investor. I would love to see that section of Cameron with a shiny new building. I would hope that having a completed office building would compell redevelopment of that section of Cameron. Cameron could turn into a very nice boulevard if it expirenced the right level of investment. It could cut a nice parallel to 2nd street and make "downtown" more than a one street affair.

[EastSideHBG]

Wow, what sad news! I too think Cameron has a lot of potential but it does need an overhaul of sorts.

[Young Gun]

True, The city could help by repaving the street to make it appear better, but there is a lot of other streets that are in much greater need of repaving. The city, state, and federal goverments all helped tremendously with this project. The developer needed to come up with very little of his own money.

I didn't write about it here, but there was a flap recently with the Council (who else) because the city engineer had changed the order of the paving of streets because the one dicatated to be done first by the council needed utility work that was to be completed later in the summer and he didn't want to dig up newly paved streets at additional cost (and ruin a nice new street) to the city. The council man's response was he wanted the job sites shut down till they could have a hearing. I mean I understand he probably had political motivations (probably the first sites were in his wards) but he has got to let some things go. The city is starting to turn a corner here finacially and he wants to drag it back. I think that the council should have to pay for all legal fees out of pocket when they do stupid shit...

[Young Gun]

by JOHN LUCIEW, Of The Patriot-News Wednesday June 25, 2008, 5:21 PM
An area of Harrisburg that has already attracted international student housing and new restaurants could soon get a 41-room boutique hotel.

Mayor Stephen R. Reed and South Third Street Development Corp., an affiliate of Harristown Development Corp. that operates Strawberry Square, announced plans today to renovate and expand properties at 312-314 Chestnut St. into what would be called the Harrisburg Arts Hotel.

The proposed $9 million project would be the latest addition to the area known as SOMA, meaning south of Market Street. No construction timetable was given. Harrisburg has two other hotel projects waiting to begin construction along the 200 block of State Street.

http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2008/06/hotel_planned_for_harrisburgs.html

I got up early to get you guys this one. In the print article they gave an update of the other 2 hotels proposed. The aloft is supposedly in process of finalizing contracts while the Barto Hotel, has just finished the engineering work. I assume now they need to find financing and a general contractor.

Maybe we'll see some construction on State Street by the end of the year. I don't know if we need 3 new hotels in Harrisburg, but I guess having 3 proposals means we should at least get one or 2. Pretty soon they will have to name it "Restruant and Hotel Row" This newest proposal sounds exciting because it would be the first higher end hotel in the region. It could add to the legitamacy of Harrisburg becoming the "small city" rather than a "large town"

[EastSideHBG]

/\
Unfortunately, I am not getting my hopes up for many reasons with one being that HBG does not need 3 hotels and two, the sucky economy going on in the country right now.

[Young Gun]

The earliest any of these projects are going to be completed is middle to late next year (Aloft) The other 2 are likely to open in 2010. The economy is going to very different then. Money is out there to be invested, (banks have to recoup losses somehow) if you have good business paramenters. The loans required are relatively small. I think Aloft is going up for about $16M right??

[EastSideHBG]

The earliest any of these projects are going to be completed is middle to late next year (Aloft) The other 2 are likely to open in 2010. The economy is going to very different then. Money is out there to be invested, (banks have to recoup losses somehow) if you have good business paramenters. The loans required are relatively small. I think Aloft is going up for about $16M right??
I disagree, and I don't think the economy is going to be any better by then, as that is not that long of a time frame and energy prices/prices in general are going nowhere but up. Hotels are good but they have a very limited focus: out of town travelers.

But time will tell and I could be wrong...

[Young Gun]

I disagree, and I don't think the economy is going to be any better by then, as that is not that long of a time frame and energy prices/prices in general are going nowhere but up. Hotels are good but they have a very limited focus: out of town travelers.

But time will tell and I could be wrong...

Time is the way to find out the general direction of the economy. I like the out of town focus of Hotels. Hotels are a great source of revenue that doesn't come from the local population. As a former resident I know you are fully aware of the tax load of the Harrisburg resident. This year I will pay >$6000 in taxes on a very modest house. The Aloft hotel takes two properties making ~ $10k total in taxes and turns it into several hundred thousand (I looked for exact tax number but WCI Partners took the hotel off their project page of their website)

Harrisburg continues to weather the sub prime storm very well. I believe the region as a whole will come out of the current slump significantly stronger than surrounding regions.

[EastSideHBG]

Time is the way to find out the general direction of the economy. I like the out of town focus of Hotels. Hotels are a great source of revenue that doesn't come from the local population. As a former resident I know you are fully aware of the tax load of the Harrisburg resident. This year I will pay >$6000 in taxes on a very modest house. The Aloft hotel takes two properties making ~ $10k total in taxes and turns it into several hundred thousand (I looked for exact tax number but WCI Partners took the hotel off their project page of their website)

Harrisburg continues to weather the sub prime storm very well. I believe the region as a whole will come out of the current slump significantly stronger than surrounding regions.
My point was that hotels = out of towners = traveling = there definitely won't be as much of that if gas prices continue to rise, which I am sure that they will. If there weren't so many hotel proposals, I wouldn't be as nervous...but I think that there may be too many eggs in one basket here. Urban living has been (and definitely will be) the hot "new" thing so why not a residential tower in the mix?

I totally agree with you that the property taxes in the city have been and are WAY out of hand. :(

[Young Gun]

My point was that hotels = out of towners = traveling = there definitely won't be as much of that if gas prices continue to rise, which I am sure that they will. If there weren't so many hotel proposals, I wouldn't be as nervous...but I think that there may be too many eggs in one basket here. Urban living has been (and definitely will be) the hot "new" thing so why not a residential tower in the mix?

I totally agree with you that the property taxes in the city have been and are WAY out of hand. :(

Some of the reason that they are out of hand is most of the new (residential) development has at least partial tax holiday's for the first 10 years. I think it is good thing to have, but maybe not 10 years. 5 years I think would be better. It is long enough in the future to make the houses attractive to buyers, but will add new money to city coffers quicker.

I fully expect one of the state street projects to fall through. And if I had my pick it would be the Aloft. We now have a fully prepped vacant site for a nice tall building to be constructed. I am willing to wait a couple of years if that is what it takes for that to happen. All three of the new hotels will depend on the business traveler market to fill them. As long as the economy stays stable that market will still be around.

In other news:

Midstate rated nation's 3rd-best area by cost, urban amenities
by DAN MILLER, Of The Patriot-News Monday June 30, 2008, 11:32 AM

SEAN SIMMERS, The Patriot-News 2008
Based on amenities and the cost of living, the Harrisburg-Carlisle area might be one of the nation's best, according to a recent study.A study for MSN ranks the Harrisburg-Carlisle area third in the nation on the basis of real-estate cost and livability.
The study by Bert Sperling of Sperling's Best Places looks at the most affordable cities with a population of at least 500,000, counting the surrounding area. Harrisburg ranks third behind Wichita and Omaha.

The list of nine cities is meant for people who can't afford the real estate in big cities like New York, Los Angeles and San Francisco but who don't want to give up the culture and amenities of urban life.

Harrisburg and the other cities have relatively low unemployment, short commute times and enough entertainment and recreation to keep people busy, according to Sperling's report.

He ranks affordability by using a ratio of median income to median home price. Pittsburgh ranks seventh in Sperling's list of nine.

http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2008/06/msn_ranks_midstate_3rd_most_af.html


The blurb from the Sterling Report

Harrisburg-Carlisle, Pa.

Harrisburg is the capital of Pennsylvania. And like other capital cities, it has a built-in buffer against economic storms with its large base of government employment.

It's a quiet city in the central part of the state, an hour and a half east of Philadelphia. Once economically depressed, Harrisburg's economy is now slowly shifting out of manufacturing and into logistics and distribution, life sciences and technology-support services.

Jobs at these companies are pulling in more young professionals like Brian Reilly, a 23-year-old coordinator for Harrisburg's business innovation zone, which helps form partnerships between industry and the area's universities. "I really like it here," Reilly says. "Coming from Philadelphia, where you can only get to know one section of the city really well, I feel like I know the whole city and its amenities. There are a lot of different festivals that are always going on, and a strong group of young professionals."

There also are history museums and a strong fan base for the area's minor-league sports teams, many of which play on City Island, a waterfront sports-themed development.

Cons: Some complain of a lack of things to do if you're not a sports fan. Public transportation is limited. Reilly and others on Sperling's site complain about the poorly planned roads and freeway system. And it's an hour and a half away from the nearest large city.

http://www.realestate.msn.com/Buying/Article2.aspx?cp-documentid=3863709&GTI=9226


All of the continual talk of the Harrisburg-Carlisle Pa has gotten me to thinking. In the future will the Harrisburg region fully "morph" with Carlisle into one continuously developed region? Making them in effect a unified city? In the last year I have seen more and more references combining the two. I know that Carlisle has always been in the Harrisburg MSA, but it ususally wasn't identified with Harrisburg. Maybe cause the city had so much trouble. IDK. The continued development along the Carlisle Pike definately doesn't hurt the combining of the two's identies.

[EastSideHBG]

It's a quiet city in the central part of the state, an hour and a half east of Philadelphia.
Wow, Harrisburg's an hour and a half EAST of Philadelphia?!? How come I could never find the beach when I lived there, though?!? And the capital of PA is actually located in NJ?!? Who would've thunk it?!??!?!?

:laugh:

That report is good news...I guess. I dunno, I just can't help but feel an underlying slap in the face to the area, though, with lines like this:

The list of nine cities is meant for people who can't afford the real estate in big cities like New York, Los Angeles and San Francisco but who don't want to give up the culture and amenities of urban life.

[Young Gun]

Wow, Harrisburg's an hour and a half EAST of Philadelphia?!? How come I could never find the beach when I lived there, though?!? And the capital of PA is actually located in NJ?!? Who would've thunk it?!??!?!?

:laugh:

That report is good news...I guess. I dunno, I just can't help but feel an underlying slap in the face to the area, though, with lines like this:

The list of nine cities is meant for people who can't afford the real estate in big cities like New York, Los Angeles and San Francisco but who don't want to give up the culture and amenities of urban life.

Well even including Carlisle, (basically half way to the Maryland/PA border) it is still only half a million. We aren't exactly huge around here, I just wish the "city" of Harrisburg actually could expand its borders to include all of the Harrisburg zip codes. it would be double its current population and the surrounding zip codes would benefit from strong leadership, even if it is coming from Reed. Slap us in the face or not we still outscored Dallas/Fort Worth... If they are grouped into the same group as us I'll except the slap. As much as slapping them as promoting us :laugh:

[danwxman]

Wow, Harrisburg's an hour and a half EAST of Philadelphia?!? How come I could never find the beach when I lived there, though?!? And the capital of PA is actually located in NJ?!? Who would've thunk it?!??!?!?

:laugh:

That report is good news...I guess. I dunno, I just can't help but feel an underlying slap in the face to the area, though, with lines like this:

The list of nine cities is meant for people who can't afford the real estate in big cities like New York, Los Angeles and San Francisco but who don't want to give up the culture and amenities of urban life.

You would see it that way. It's not a slap in the face at all. Note the next line: The list of nine cities is meant for people who can't afford the real estate in big cities like New York, Los Angeles and San Francisco but who don't want to give up the culture and amenities of urban life.

There's nothing wrong with not being able to afford the outrageous costs of living in the big coastal cities.

[MidtownMike]

There's nothing wrong with not being able to afford the outrageous costs of living in the big coastal cities.

Nor wanting to deal with the hassle of those cities...

EDIT: Grammar.

[EastSideHBG]

You would see it that way.
LOL well whatever, my point was that the article seemed to take its digs on the people of Harrisburg, and unfairly I might add.

Even when I am on your side (and yes, that is definitely a rare thing), I still can't win! :laugh:

[Young Gun]

Nor wanting to deal with the hassle of those cities...

EDIT: Grammar.

Could you tell my gf that? She hates Harrisburg, not really entirely sure why, but she complains about the traffic jams coming down 81 from the north at rush hour. (she can't do 80mph through there)

[Young Gun]

You told us so....

Looks like I'll have to look at the empty lot for a little while longer.

http://centralpennbusiness.com/article.asp?aID=67037

Market stalls Hersha projects
By Jessica Bair
7/4/2008



Chain-link fencing surrounds the vacant lot on the southeast corner of North Second and State streets in Harrisburg, where construction of Aloft hotel by Starwood Hotels & Resorts has been delayed. Harrisburg-based Hersha Hospitality Trust is to manage the hotel. Photo/Amy Spangler
Hersha Hospitality Trust could have more than doubled in size this year if it weren't for the tough lending condition of the U.S. financial market.

The Dauphin County real estate investment trust has been working for the past couple of years on several acquisitions, including one major deal that would make the company significantly larger, said Hasu Shah, chairman of the Harrisburg-based company.

In fact, the trust has left the top floor of its headquarters in Harrisburg empty in case it needs room to grow, rather than searching for a tenant to lease the space.

"It would have happened," he said. "We are in the growing mode."

Shah calmly answered questions about the billion-dollar deal as he scrubbed lunch dishes and gave a tour of the company's headquarters on Front Street.

The deals did not close this year because it is taking longer for loans to be approved by banks, said Mayur Patel, general counsel for the trust's parent company, The Hersha Group. The company has been dealing with banks the size of UBS and Merrill Lynch & Company Inc., Shah said.

Patel would not disclose the name of the companies or the value of the deals. The trust will continue to pursue large deals, but it's taking longer to get the funding to do all the deals, he said.

In spite of the cost of the deals, the trust would be able to manage the acquired hotels for less money, while still retaining the quality, Shah said. And the trust's earnings per share would not dip as a result of the deals, which would likely be debt-heavy, he said. It is a craft he has been perfecting since he founded the trust's parent company in the 1980s.

"Our bottom line will be better," Shah said.

The financial market also is affecting a project close to the hearts of Harrisburg officials and residents. Construction of the anticipated Aloft hotel by Starwood Hotels & Resorts at the corner of North Second and State streets in Harrisburg is being delayed until the end of this year or the beginning of 2009, Patel said. Hersha and Harrisburg-based WCI Partners share ownership of the hotel, but Hersha will manage the hotel.

"It's hard to finance in the current market," Shah said. "We want to make sure it's a good building."

While some banks have cut off financing to all hotel projects, Hersha is still able to get loans, but it takes more work and more time, Patel said. Hersha originally wanted to break ground this summer on the 138-room hotel. It will take 12 to 14 months to build the hotel, which would mean a 2010 opening date, Shah said.

The constraints and requirements attached to the site of the hotel are another reason it's taking longer to begin construction of the project, Patel said.

"There is little to no financing available for hotel construction," said Jeff Donnelly, managing director of real estate and lodging equity research for Wachovia Capital Markets. "In addition to a difficult financing market, materials costs are up sharply. Steel costs are up 100 percent to date, and copper and concrete continue to see steady rises, too."

The value of existing hotels is slipping because projects are being delayed or canceled due to difficult financing terms, he said. The demand for hotels also is weakening as oil prices tighten disposable income and corporate profits, he said.

"Bottom line, we should see further weakness in hotel fundamentals and a significant decline in projected 2010 (and further) hotel completions," Donnelly said.

What does this mean for the Barto Building??

[EastSideHBG]

Could you tell my gf that? She hates Harrisburg, not really entirely sure why, but she complains about the traffic jams coming down 81 from the north at rush hour. (she can't do 80mph through there)
I hate it too, so we probably have a lot in common. ;)

But in all seriousness "hate" is a very strong word and I would have to say that I don't hate it, but rather, I have a "strong distaste" for the area. IMO it has many of the negatives of big(ger) city urban living (e.g. crime, horrible traffic, bad attitudes) w/ none of the positives (e.g. diversity in things to do, good public transit, etc.). If they would get their act together and tip the scales in the right direction, my opinions would probably change.

Maybe if I didn't grow up there and know all of the ins/outs of the area I would feel differently. But IMO it is long overdue for a redefinition of sorts, and I would love to see it morph into what I know it COULD be...

[Young Gun]

I hate it too, so we probably have a lot in common. ;)

But in all seriousness "hate" is a very strong word and I would have to say that I don't hate it, but rather, I have a "strong distaste" for the area. IMO it has many of the negatives of big(ger) city urban living (e.g. crime, horrible traffic, bad attitudes) w/ none of the positives (e.g. diversity in things to do, good public transit, etc.). If they would get their act together and tip the scales in the right direction, my opinions would probably change.

Maybe if I didn't grow up there and know all of the ins/outs of the area I would feel differently. But IMO it is long overdue for a redefinition of sorts, and I would love to see it morph into what I know it COULD be...

You obviously like it deep down in your heart somewhere, you keep coming back here. :yes:

[EastSideHBG]

You obviously like it deep down in your heart somewhere, you keep coming back here. :yes:
Coming back to visit through the forum is one thing...coming back in person is certainly another. ;)

But on the real, it's my hometown and I spent an awful lot of time there, and I put A LOT of blood, sweat and tears into it. No matter where I end up on the map, I will always keep an eye on it and its development. :yes:

[danwxman]

Anybody else hear about the "rumor" of a grocery store being built in Midtown?

[Young Gun]

Anybody else hear about the "rumor" of a grocery store being built in Midtown?

I have heard no such rumor, but if there is a person about to propose it then I will say "I support it!!"

:banana:

anyone think the rise in gas prices will help to drive investment in the city??

[danwxman]

I have heard no such rumor, but if there is a person about to propose it then I will say "I support it!!"

:banana:

anyone think the rise in gas prices will help to drive investment in the city??

My friend (who also lives in the city) heard from a reliable source that there is actually a plan already in place. While I'm half hoping it will be a Whole Foods (would be great for the city) I also wouldn't mind just a smaller, affordable chain like a Shure Fine or Aldi.

[danwxman]

Gas prices will surely help drive investment in the city, but I wonder how many people will consider moving into the city after all the negative press Midtown has gotten lately. There are a LOT of homes for sale in Midtown, at least 2-3 on each block! I wonder if these are people cashing out on the market right now or moving out because they are tired of the city....some of the homes have been sitting on the market since last winter.

For example, a few months ago there was one listing on Reily street....now after walking down the street yesterday there are five homes for sale just between 2nd and Third.

BTW, in the new budget CAT (Capital Area Transit) is getting over 1 million more dollars in funding, which is good news. Maybe we will get some more routes and increased frequency. When I lived on the west shore I would occasionally take Route C which follows the Carlisle Pike then Market street into the city. I remember once last Fall the 5:00 bus out of market square had every single seat taken...I've never seen a CAT bus that full (and to the west shore no less).

[danwxman]

Rendering of the proposed hotel on Chestnut street:
http://www.wgal.com/2008/0709/16826038_640X479.jpg

[Young Gun]

Gas prices will surely help drive investment in the city, but I wonder how many people will consider moving into the city after all the negative press Midtown has gotten lately. There are a LOT of homes for sale in Midtown, at least 2-3 on each block! I wonder if these are people cashing out on the market right now or moving out because they are tired of the city....some of the homes have been sitting on the market since last winter.

For example, a few months ago there was one listing on Reily street....now after walking down the street yesterday there are five homes for sale just between 2nd and Third.


I think it is a lot of cashing out. They are seeing prices that the new places are getting and wanting that for their places. I looked at a place in Midtown about a year ago, and they were asking about 20k over the property value and didn't budge on the price at all. They finally found a sucker to buy it full price. Many of the properties for sale on Reily and other streets are part of the Green Street Properties and the WCI houses for sale. They bought a large number of houses revamped them and are reselling them to gentrify the area.

I think they caught most involved in the Midtown incidents, and don't worry; the Patriot News doesn't have that large of a readership. The incidents will quickly fade from memory.

:previous: I think they should put a unified facade on the building.

[Young Gun]

ran across this on my trolling of the internet

http://northstargallery.com/aerialphotography/gallerybw/NSG_0172bweb.jpg

from this Page (http://northstargallery.com/aerialphotography/gallerybw/11.htm). I thought I should share. I didn't know there used to be a Lord and Taylor in the Harrisburg Mall. Such a shame. I've heard it quoted here more than once that people would like to see one come into the area.

[danwxman]

Upscale retail is exactly what the Harrisburg Mall needs. The new owners (they purchased the mall in 2003 I believe) have been trying to change the perception of the mall as a ghetto mall ever since. Unfortunately for them, our society has moved away from malls and towards lifestyle centers...not to mention the Harrisburg metro is overmalled as it is. It's kind of a shame because its really the nicest and largest mall in the area.

Some more (http://www.feldmanmall.com/Harrisburg-SlideShow.html) information on the mall.

[Young Gun]

Upscale retail is exactly what the Harrisburg Mall needs. The new owners (they purchased the mall in 2003 I believe) have been trying to change the perception of the mall as a ghetto mall ever since. Unfortunately for them, our society has moved away from malls and towards lifestyle centers...not to mention the Harrisburg metro is overmalled as it is. It's kind of a shame because its really the nicest and largest mall in the area.

Some more (http://www.feldmanmall.com/Harrisburg-SlideShow.html) information on the mall.

I wasn't sure what you mean by lifestyle centers so I looked it up. Reminds me a little of the Lehigh Valley Mall. I think that is a little of what the "Streetwalk" or whatever it is that they Mall is calling it is trying for with the new additions. hmm... I've been to a few of the larger malls east of us in Jersey. They weren't built all in one phase. I hope that the steetwalk is not the last addition to the mall. If they keep expanding, (hopefully putting colonial park out of business) Then I can see that we'll be able to develop a much nicer retail potential. I think the only hope of getting higher end retail into the Harrisburg region is to have a single larger shopping center that can draw the foot traffic it will require. Then the mall can be a destination for the region rather than a neccessary place to go. There isn't any "good" shopping in all of central region of PA

[EastSideHBG]

RE: the gas prices and urban development, yes, I think this will have an effect on urban America in general but maybe only a slight effect on HBG. The urbanized part of the metro is pretty small and compact already and there are really no advantages to living in the city vs. other areas (in fact sadly, the scales are tipped against the city in many cases). This could change, but only when public transit was increased, there needs to be some real shopping choices, etc.

Young Gun, the Colonial Park Mall isn't going anywhere and is one of the top performers in the area believe it or not (I have close friends who work for the company that owns it). I think it's low ceilings are quite horrible (lol) but when you think about its location and the stores they have, it really is a sure thing.

Yes, L&T was indeed at the HBG Mall for a very brief time.

I agree, danwxman, and the HBG area is TERRIBLY over-malled. HBG Mall has a lot of potential but...I dunno, I just never see it happening...there's too much too close.

[MidtownMike]

I think they caught most involved in the Midtown incidents, and don't worry; the Patriot News doesn't have that large of a readership. The incidents will quickly fade from memory.


About 250,000 people a day...

[Young Gun]

About 250,000 people a day...

You're telling me that 30% of the area covered by the PN are readers? Where did this number come from

[MidtownMike]

You're telling me that 30% of the area covered by the PN are readers? Where did this number come from


Yes I am...and it comes from a sample of 1,000 adults in the market...

[EastSideHBG]

Yeah, Young Gun, I'd have to agree with MidtownMike and TPN serves a pretty large area and it would be easier for me to tell you the people I knew who didn't read it than did, as that # is so much smaller.

[danwxman]

If anyone hasn't seen the latest Census estimates....take a look....Harrisburg actually registered an increase in population from 2006-2007! I want to believe it (I wish it was more) but I guess we won't know for sure until the official census is taken in 2010.

[Young Gun]

If anyone hasn't seen the latest Census estimates....take a look....Harrisburg actually registered an increase in population from 2006-2007! I want to believe it (I wish it was more) but I guess we won't know for sure until the official census is taken in 2010.


If that is true that would be a first in 30yrs?

Ok, I had to come back and edit my post. I looked at Harrisburg City, (increase of ~20 from last year) and the surrounding boroughs and townships. they all increased. Unfortunately I in the first half of this decade we lost a significant amount that I don't think we will recover by 2010. Therefore while the trend might be heading upwards it will look like a decrease. If this is true it will be unfortunate.

[Evergrey]

PNC Bank's July 2008 economic forecast for Harrisburg:

https://www.pnc.com/webapp/unsec/Requester?resource=/wcm/resources/file/eb9f2e00fcf45ca/Harrisburg.pdf

The Harrisburg metro area economy is increasingly dynamic and has improved its position relative to state and national economic indicators.

[Young Gun]

PNC Bank's July 2008 economic forecast for Harrisburg:

https://www.pnc.com/webapp/unsec/Requester?resource=/wcm/resources/file/eb9f2e00fcf45ca/Harrisburg.pdf

The Harrisburg metro area economy is increasingly dynamic and has improved its position relative to state and national economic indicators.

Just got done reading it. WOOT!!! Not all good news, but way better than what others are seeing.... Now people move here!!!

[EastSideHBG]

I've said it before and I'll say it again: Harrisburg is a great place...if you are looking for that sort of thing. The mentality of the area definitely caters to a certain demographic and if it wants to attract/keep certain types of people, it needs to change a little more.

Still, good news nonetheless!

[Young Gun]

Has anyone heard of this before? It has somehow flown under the radar. Found it while cruising commercial realty sites

http://compass.naicir.com/images/photos/117280tix1fn.jpg

Midtown Harrisburg's newest development in years includes 34,400 SF of office and retail space adjacent to the Harrisburg's expanding urban campus. This three-story development is the first phase of two mirrored buildings yielding a total of 68,000+ SF on Harrisburg's northern gateway, which may include the new Federal Court House. The widening of N. 7th street will be completed by the second quarter of 2008, making this the primary route in/out of Harrisburg from the north.

details in listing Here (http://compass.naicir.com/search/listing_printable.asp?id=117281&)

[EastSideHBG]

/\
What the hell is that?!? It's awful IMO! :yuck:

[Young Gun]

/\
What the hell is that?!? It's awful IMO! :yuck:

I know, but it is what it is. It was listed under commercial properties to lease. I guess it is on its way to be constructed, but I never heard anything about it

[Austinlee]

/\
What the hell is that?!? It's awful IMO! :yuck:

But it has turrets!!

[Young Gun]

I applaud the investment in the city, but we will have to live with the looks of a building such as this for years to come should it be built. And It is going to be in in the gateway to our city!!! << ok that part is straight up poking fun.

[Young Gun]

I was reading wired.coms Autopia blog and ran across this statistic

Amtrak Is Feeling the Love.... The Chicago to Milwaukee Hiawatha line was up 22.4%, the Raleigh to Charlotte Piedmont route jumped 27.5%, and the Keystone line between New York and Harrisburg PA was up 19.1%. The biggest gainer in the entire Amtrak system? The scenic Boston to Portland, Maine Downeaster -- up nearly 33%.


http://blog.wired.com/cars/2008/07/the-people-are.html#more

Just some general good news... :)

[MidtownMike]

Has anyone heard of this before? It has somehow flown under the radar. Found it while cruising commercial realty sites

http://compass.naicir.com/images/photos/117280tix1fn.jpg

Midtown Harrisburg's newest development in years includes 34,400 SF of office and retail space adjacent to the Harrisburg's expanding urban campus. This three-story development is the first phase of two mirrored buildings yielding a total of 68,000+ SF on Harrisburg's northern gateway, which may include the new Federal Court House. The widening of N. 7th street will be completed by the second quarter of 2008, making this the primary route in/out of Harrisburg from the north.

details in listing Here (http://compass.naicir.com/search/listing_printable.asp?id=117281&)


Considering we're in the 3rd quarter of 2008, I don't see that happening...

[Young Gun]

Considering we're in the 3rd quarter of 2008, I don't see that happening...

Cynic.... :yes: haha

[chris.butcher]

I've been away for a while, traveling, beach, etc., but I'm back at it now.

Here is a link to some additional photos of the Pennsylvania Judicial Center http://picasaweb.google.com/chris.butcher.717/PAJudicialCenter These were taken a few weeks ago, before the crane came down. I'll update these again in the very near future. As you can see, the building is looking really, really good. It just gets better and is one excellent addition to an already impressive Capitol Complex! :worship:

Also, I'll be posting additional photos of the Harrisburg U Tower and a few other developments around the City/Region.

[chris.butcher]

A thought which is not directed at any particular moderator of this thread or anything :)

The next time someone starts bitching about how Harrisburg holds itself back in this Forum, take a look at the Philly pages. Just check out the two full pages - or more - of discussion about whether to allow a sign by Unisys, then tell me how pathetic Harrisburg is for debating everything new.

The truth is that people in EVERY city fight over new development: Harrisburg, Philly, Chicago, New York or BFE. My point about this fighting isn't just that it happens, rather, that it is a mark of civic pride that people care enough to fight for their city.

Right EastSide? :D

Besides, who doesn't like a little mix-up once in a while?! :haha:

[EastSideHBG]

A thought which is not directed at any particular moderator of this thread or anything :)

The next time someone starts bitching about how Harrisburg holds itself back in this Forum, take a look at the Philly pages. Just check out the two full pages - or more - of discussion about whether to allow a sign by Unisys, then tell me how pathetic Harrisburg is for debating everything new.
You're going to compare the passion for world-known buildings like Liberty Place and one of the best skylines in the country (subjective? sure, but one can never debate how recognizable the Philly skyline is) and a company like Unisys (also very well known) coming to your city's center and wanting to possibly "deface" one of said buildings, to HBG city council debating for years over if they should approve another boring, run of the mill 8-story building that won't stand out at all?!? That is HARDLY an apples to apples comparison. And lest we forget that we are on a skyscraper forum, and such proposals like Unisys' will always result in debate...

The problem with HBG vs. other cities is that everything usually does end up in a big debate for no good reason at all, which in turn ties fairly mediocre projects in the grand scheme of things up for years. I've seen more change here in Philly in 2+ years than I did in Harrisburg in 10, and that says an awful lot about a region...an awful lot.

The truth is that people in EVERY city fight over new development: Harrisburg, Philly, Chicago, New York or BFE. My point about this fighting isn't just that it happens, rather, that it is a mark of civic pride that people care enough to fight for their city.

Right EastSide? :D

Besides, who doesn't like a little mix-up once in a while?! :haha:
...but your point is appreciated: it is because people care about their city that they point out the faults and want them improved. If they didn't care they wouldn't be noticing and commenting at all! :yes: I have a lot of beefs with Harrisburg (A LOT) but I do care about its future and really do wish it the best! :tup:

[chris.butcher]

You're going to compare the passion for world-known buildings like Liberty Place and one of the best skylines in the country (subjective? sure, but one can never debate how recognizable the Philly skyline is) and a company like Unisys (also very well known) coming to your city's center and wanting to possibly "deface" one of said buildings, to HBG city council debating for years over if they should approve another boring, run of the mill 8-story building that won't stand out at all?!? That is HARDLY an apples to apples comparison. And lest we forget that we are on a skyscraper forum, and such proposals like Unisys' will always result in debate...

Yes, I sure am...because to Harrisburgers, what is debated is every bit as important to them as to more widely known buildings are to other cities. Just saying. :yes:

...but your point is appreciated: it is because people care about their city that they point out the faults and want them improved. If they didn't care they wouldn't be noticing and commenting at all! :yes: I have a lot of beefs with Harrisburg (A LOT) but I do care about its future and really do wish it the best! :tup:

All of us appreciate your interest and good will EastSideHBG. Harrisburg needs all the goodwill and love that it can earn, and we're thankful for all of the caring that good people - like EastSide and the many others on this forum - show each and every week here. Thanks to you all for making this a great forum thread!! :banana:

[EastSideHBG]

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:tup: :yes: :hug:

[chris.butcher]

I promised some updates to the PA Judicial Center at the Cap. Complex and here they are: http://picasaweb.google.com/chris.butcher.717/PAJudicialCenterII. As I said before, the building is really shaping up nicely. I especially like the tops of the columns on the columnade at the front - the stylized keystones are perfect for the building and are unique in their representation of Pennsylvania's symbol [see the third pick in my album].

The building is huge and really infills the last open space at the Capitol Complex. I am hoping to take a tour when they hold an open house [if indeed they do]. By the way, a friend and I got a good look at the external security features of the building and the Commonwealth has used its head in this regard. I have not posted pictures of the security features, so as not to compromise the safety of the building or those working therein.

Enjoy the pics, ladies and gentlemen. :)

[cb3cb3]

what is the latest with the federal court house? where are the latest potential locations? last time i saw a post on it it was to be the tallest building in harrisburg. i also remember it being all glass

[chris.butcher]

what is the latest with the federal court house? where are the latest potential locations? last time i saw a post on it it was to be the tallest building in harrisburg. i also remember it being all glass

cb3cb3, this is from The Patriot News on July 25, 2008, regarding the Courthouse Project in Harrisburg:
"My sense of it is because the Bush administration is leaving office in less than sixth months, some of the top people at the regional office of GSA in Philadelphia are leaving at the same time, if not sooner," Reed told The Patriot-News' editorial board this week.

"Our strategy is to wait out those who are opposing Sixth and Reily and then make the appropriate move to assure a subsequent GSA decision approving the Sixth and Reily site. We are kind of in that mode right now," Reed said.

A spokeswoman for Shelton said the director was unavailable for an interview Thursday. The spokeswoman, Gina Blyther Gilliam, added that it's too early to speculate when Shelton might depart in a change of administrations, noting that it's common for regional administrators, who serve at the pleasure of the president, to continue in the early months or years of a new administration.

Gilliam said lower-level GSA staff working on the Harrisburg project would remain with the agency."

Say what you will about Mayor Reed [and there is plenty to say], he has been consistently correct on his assessment of this project and the very arrogant manner in which the GSA has approached it. I think it would be a great "shot in the arm" for the City to have the courthouse underway right now, but I agree that 6th and Reily is a great site for it.

Btw, in case some of you out-of-towners are wondering, follow the link for pictures of the 6th and Reily Streets proposed site for the courthouse http://picasaweb.google.com/chris.butcher.717/6thAndReilyStreets

[Young Gun]

I like both the 6th and Reily site and the site in the Southern Gateway. 6th and Reily site would be a good stabilizing force in that section of the city, Already there is that proposed condo building in that area.

On the other hand putting it in the Southern Gateway would help to beautify the entry to downtown. Either way I call it a win if it gets put at those 2 sites.

I somehow feel that we wouldn't have had this long of a fiasco if there was a different administration in Washington. Hopefully Reed is right, but I guess that means another year until a decision is made. We might see it built by 2011. As slow as the goverment moves the whole area around the new courthouses could be filled with development by the time that the courthouse get finished.

[EastSideHBG]

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Nice pics, Chris! I have friends that own a townhouse in the group you can see in your second pic, and they rent it out. I haven't talked to them in a few years so they may have sold it, though.

I think 6th and Reily is the best bet. There is a lot of room, it would help push DT outward, that whole immediate area is garbage and like you guys said, it would be a nice shot in the arm for the area. Also, I always thought it was cool how DT was divided into two distinct districts, and I like the idea of having this fed bldg. in the "gov't side of town".

[Young Gun]

Eastside,

Your opinion of sorts based on your comments above. If downtown continues to push itself out (around established historical districts) Do you eventually see the City of Harrisburg evolving into a high density (downtown) area with most of the residential areas falling outside the current city limits??

To me it seems that if the current development trends, (with hopeful acceleration of development over time as the city grows) The city is doomed to become mainly a CBD with residential around the edges. Already the downtown is pushed against the two sides of the city (west and south) and is spreading Northward along the river as the land is cheaper there and easy access to the interstate. It seems logical to me that once the expansion of 7th Street is completed we'll see more development there too as it will be easy (and quick) to get in and out of the city from there. That would leave Midtown, and uptown surrounded.

[chris.butcher]

Nice pics, Chris! I have friends that own a townhouse in the group you can see in your second pic, and they rent it out. I haven't talked to them in a few years so they may have sold it, though.

I think 6th and Reily is the best bet. There is a lot of room, it would help push DT outward, that whole immediate area is garbage and like you guys said, it would be a nice shot in the arm for the area. Also, I always thought it was cool how DT was divided into two distinct districts, and I like the idea of having this fed bldg. in the "gov't side of town".

Thanks, EastSideHBG, glad you liked the pics. I'm working on more in the very near future, as there has been significant advancement on the Harrisburg U Tower, downtown.

Yes, the ability to extend the downtown [DT] to the north around 7th and 6th Streets, seems to be in the works. Frankly, there are still HUGE tracks of available land in that area, if you clear off some isolated residences and abandoned/run-down structures. Speaking specifically about the courthouse, the federal judges are the ones really pushing the courthouse to be DT, but I think they're going to lose this fight. They have the great misfortune of having US Rep. Tim Holden on the House Committee which oversees GSA's budget. Ah well, let them have their tantrum. :tantrum:

YoungGun made a point, in the previous post, about the core of Harrisburg becoming a rather large Central Business District [CBD], with housing limited to the fringes of the City. I've thought that myself, but there is always another option: more condos and apartments in the CBD!! I still think we're a good 10 or 15 years from that kind of development, but I do believe it will happen. The thing preventing that right now, is, imho, the availability of land in the City [hence the option to build dwellings where it is less expensive] and the obstinate refusal of many suburbanites to actually want to live in the CBD. One will change fairly quickly [the land availability], the other, not nearly so, but it will, following the lack of land "close in" on which to build more suburbia.

[EastSideHBG]

Eastside,

Your opinion of sorts based on your comments above. If downtown continues to push itself out (around established historical districts) Do you eventually see the City of Harrisburg evolving into a high density (downtown) area with most of the residential areas falling outside the current city limits??

To me it seems that if the current development trends, (with hopeful acceleration of development over time as the city grows) The city is doomed to become mainly a CBD with residential around the edges. Already the downtown is pushed against the two sides of the city (west and south) and is spreading Northward along the river as the land is cheaper there and easy access to the interstate. It seems logical to me that once the expansion of 7th Street is completed we'll see more development there too as it will be easy (and quick) to get in and out of the city from there. That would leave Midtown, and uptown surrounded.
Well it can live in harmony if done right, just look at Philadelphia and DC. Yes they are much, MUCH larger but on a smaller scale HBG is identical. Again the trick is if done right, though.

But yeah, unless like Chris said and many of us have been saying for years HBG gets some condos/new apartments in its core, I do think the CBD will be really just about that and most of the residential will be in Midtown, across Cameron and up Market, etc. With the city limits being so small it almost seems like this is the best route to go anyway (think of Australia's big cities).

[chris.butcher]

Forgive me if this is a duplicate post, but I went back through this thread several pages and did not see any mention of this project. [Also, apologies for the size of this pic, but that is the size as posted on the Patriot News' website] This is really a nice addition to the hospital and will, in my opinion, actually help the traffic at the intersection of Chestnut and Front Streets. [It appears to me that entering the hospital grounds from along Front Street will not be an option any longer, hence the improvement].

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3037/2726576153_9d2ae82507_o.jpg

I like the addition, as it is a good way to tie together the more modern, black glass tower with the earlier brick tower, using a neutral white curtain and brick at the southern end. This addition should be really interesting at night, as a large portion of it will be glass. This expansion is worth $28 million and will bring the emergency room capacity to over 60,000 patients per year, as per the Patriot News. The article http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2008/03/pinnacle_needs_bigger_er.html#more also indicates that the number of examination rooms will be increased from 28 currently, to 57. This is a great project, but a pitiful comment on our overall health care system. This project should be completed by 2010.

I'm going to try to get the camera out tomorrow and get a few pics, because the foundation excavations are already started.

[EastSideHBG]

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Seems to me like they could've done this work when they were adding the laboratory or soon after, as they reconfigured the ER and even had to have a temporary entrance elsewhere for a while. :shrug:

[chris.butcher]

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Seems to me like they could've done this work when they were adding the laboratory or soon after, as they reconfigured the ER and even had to have a temporary entrance elsewhere for a while. :shrug:

I wondered that very thing, EastSide! I cannot understand the "planning" process that PinnacleHealth Systems uses, but it seems rather haphazard, as you pointed out. There is supposedto be a master plan for the Harrisburg Hospital campus, but I don't know if its ever been published or made public. The Mayor has referred to the Hospital being a major player in the coming Southern Gateway Project, but again, no firm plans released covering that role.

I will just enjoy the appearance of the new addition, though. It should be a very nice addition to the downtown and to the more modern portion of Front Street, south of State Street. :)

[EastSideHBG]

I wondered that very thing, EastSide! I cannot understand the "planning" process that PinnacleHealth Systems uses, but it seems rather haphazard, as you pointed out.
I know MANY people who work/have worked for the company and it does appear that there is no planning at all. Like many companies in America (especially in health care) too much money and not enough brains I guess LOL

Yes, It does indeed look like it will be a nice, modern addition.