[pwright1]

The airports will have to construct special entrances into the terminals for the A380s.

[pwright1]

......thats for passengers exiting the plane into the terminals.

[Daquan13]

This plane is already an expensive monstrocity all the way around!! It will be too expensive to buy, refuel, fly & to park at the gates!!!

Airbus Industrie thinks that it will outperform the 747, but it won't.
About 180 or so of these have been ordered. Boeing has made & sold about a wopping 1,300 or more examples of the 747 in ALL varients! Let's see if Airbus will sell THAT many of the A-380. It will have to take about thiry years to just break even!!

The several airlines who DID order it are int'ls only. The U.S. airlines wouldn't even be able to touch it because they are much too broke!! They just wouldn't be able to afford it.

[nick_taylor]

pwright1 - Dozens of airports are currently doing this as we speak. Infact some airports who are in the process of building new terminals, eg T3 at Singapore Changi and T5 at London Heathrow will have as standard A380 gates. Virgin are going to have to delay their shipment due to LA's slow reaction to the A380.

Daquan13 - I guess you would have said that when the 747 series came out yes? Afterall - before the 747 there was no comparable commercial passenger plane on the planet. The A380 goes one step further, just like Boeing did with the 747 all those years ago!

Airbus already has around 129 firm orders. For such a large aircraft it is rapidly making ground. Far quicker on comparision with say the launch of the 747 or 7E7. This plane will be larger than the 747, but be more economical.

I have no idea if Airbus will sell 1,300 A380's....but then again, one A380 is not equal to one 747. The largest 747, is the 747-400 and this can handle 568 passengers. The A380 can accomodate up to 840! In other words it is nearly 50% larger than the largest 747 series plane there is. The fact of the matter though, is that it has struck large deals with the world's largest, leading and upcoming airline carriers that have a healthy bank balance.

For Airbus to break even, they need to sell somewhere between 250-300 - they are practically half way of achieving that in less than a year!!!

Poor management and several other factors will mean that the US airline carriers will have to be either bailed out by the US government or receive. Infact did you know that Airbus approached Boeing to develop a larger plane together. Boeing rejected and now they are losing more of the market to Airbus every week.

[Capt AWACS]

"Virgin are going to have to delay their shipment due to LA's slow reaction to the A380."

This is false, LA had very little to do with Virgin's delay. Read their press releases or employee concerns on Airliners.net or flyertalk.com. An airline does not delay deliveries for one airport and one gate. Emireates could delay as well.

"Far quicker on comparision with say the launch of the 747 or 7E7."
Also not true, 7E7 sales are on par to actually top 380 sales by rollout.

"This plane will be larger than the 747, but be more economical."
- This is a bit apples and oranges since no one knows the real numbers for the A380 since it hasn't flown yet. Weight issues still have to be fixed. Though per pax seat-mile costs could be very comparable on longhaul routes per Airbuses own numbers.

"For Airbus to break even, they need to sell somewhere between 250-300 - they are practically half way of achieving that in less than a year!!!"
- The have been marketing this for "way" more than a year.

"The A380 can accomodate up to 840"
All of them are limited by the FAA/CAA/ JAA to 555 passengers so you point is moot.

"Poor management and several other factors will mean that the US airline carriers will have to be either bailed out by the US government or receive."
- actually the government is not bailing them out anymore, United did not get money, and Delta is paying back it s loans.

"Infact did you know that Airbus approached Boeing to develop a larger plane together."
- Not exactly that simple, Airbus wanted technically spec on the MD-12 double decker that Boeing got when they took over McDonnell Douglas.

" Boeing rejected and now they are losing more of the market to Airbus every week."
-not really, Boeing is doing just fine with the 737NG outselling the A320 series and 777 out selling the A330. Though Airbus did finally take a year from Boeing. Embraer and Canadiar are selling better than both in some markets. Here is the difference, Boeing is making money, Airbus is not on many sales, as they are selling some planes at or below costs. this is how the subsidy issue comes into play.

Ciao, and Hook 'em Horns,
Capt-AWACS, Not all Pilots are Alcoholics, We Don't go to meetings

[Daquan13]

pwright1 - Dozens of airports are currently doing this as we speak. Infact some airports who are in the process of building new terminals, eg T3 at Singapore Changi and T5 at London Heathrow will have as standard A380 gates. Virgin are going to have to delay their shipment due to LA's slow reaction to the A380.

Daquan13 - I guess you would have said that when the 747 series came out yes? Afterall - before the 747 there was no comparable commercial passenger plane on the planet. The A380 goes one step further, just like Boeing did with the 747 all those years ago!

Airbus already has around 129 firm orders. For such a large aircraft it is rapidly making ground. Far quicker on comparision with say the launch of the 747 or 7E7. This plane will be larger than the 747, but be more economical.

I have no idea if Airbus will sell 1,300 A380's....but then again, one A380 is not equal to one 747. The largest 747, is the 747-400 and this can handle 568 passengers. The A380 can accomodate up to 840! In other words it is nearly 50% larger than the largest 747 series plane there is. The fact of the matter though, is that it has struck large deals with the world's largest, leading and upcoming airline carriers that have a healthy bank balance.

For Airbus to break even, they need to sell somewhere between 250-300 - they are practically half way of achieving that in less than a year!!!

Poor management and several other factors will mean that the US airline carriers will have to be either bailed out by the US government or receive. Infact did you know that Airbus approached Boeing to develop a larger plane together. Boeing rejected and now they are losing more of the market to Airbus every week.



I well aware of those things.

As for Boeing supposedly losing sales to Airbus Industrie for not making a deal with them to jointly make a jetliner together, they, IMO, can take the loss & bounce right back.

Boeing has enjoyed a very healthy sales record for just about every "700" series of jetliners they made & they were around long before Airbus Industrie came along! That's a fact.

[otto]

The 7E7 was ordered by ANA as an initial order of 100 planes at once. That`s especially painful for airbus, as ANA and JAL are the BIG RESISTERS of A380s. Airbus has been begging, asking, pushing, threating, to ANA and JAL. But those two companies have made it clear, they don`t need Airbus.
Those two not ordering has endangered the whole project. Traditionally, Japan is the best customer of 747s, they go for cutting edge technology, have a 90%+ share of the 2nd largest air market and have relatively good finance. It` a shame, and Airbus would better already admit its defeat.

[Daquan13]

Good!!

I'm so glad that those two carriers had decided to stay with Boeing! Also, the shameful part of this is that the A-380 still has yet to make its maiden flight. it has not done so yet. Don't know what the holdup is & don't really care!

Why are they using threatening tactics in order to score sales for this plane? That's no way to do bisiness. As I said before, the U.S. airlines more than likely won't order it either. If anything, they'll order the 7E7 first. It's smaller, cheaper & much more ecconomical.

Look out!! Boeing is also aggressively planning a new strategy.
They plan to eventually line up a strategic plan & campain to strongly offer wide- bodied jetliners for future customer orders!

They include a more revamped technologically advanced varient
of the 747. This newer model of the highly popular wide body is to be named the 747-400 Advanced. I'm quite sure that this newer plane will have even more stuff under the hood. No date as to when this varient would go into production.

Also, the 777 in all varients would be aggressively offered, along with the planned yet-to-be-built 7E7 in all versions, the 7E7-3, 8 & 9. The 767 is still riding high also, even though the firm has stopped making the baseline 767-200 varient some time ago.

The now only narrow body, & still going headstrong, is the 737NG of jetliners in the -700, -800 & -900 varirents It now replaces the
757 which the company has made its last one last month. Sales of this plane in ALL versions are well over the 2,300 mark.

I DID say that they got a plan to bounce back. It could be their chance get back on top. I hope that it works! It should.
Good luck for Boeing!!!:yes: :yes: :cool: :cool:

[Fabb]

Highly recommended pictures :

http://www.planepictures.net/netshow.php?id=285686
http://www.planepictures.net/netshow.php?id=285705

[Rachmaninov]

Looks real huge. But I still prefer 7E7.

[Daquan13]

Good choice!!

I prefer ALL of Boeings planes over Aibus's planes. Besides, they once tried to stop Boeing from aquiring McDonnell Douglas!

If it's not made by Boeing, I'm not going!!

[Rachmaninov]

A380 program is way over budget
Forgeard says it could cost up to $2 billion more

SEATTLE POST-INTELLIGENCER STAFF AND NEWS SERVICES

The world's biggest commercial jetliner is ballooning over budget.

Development of the A380 will exceed earlier cost estimates by between about 5 percent and 15 percent, said Noel Forgeard, chief executive of Airbus. The new plane program could cost as much as $2 billion more than the original $10.7 billion cost that had been projected, he said. Forgeard made the comments in a question-and-answer interview printed in Le Monde. An Airbus spokesman confirmed the comments.

Meanwhile, shares of European Aeronautic, Defense and Space Co., the parent of Airbus SAS, fell 4 percent yesterday to $22.15 euros ($29.48), their biggest decline in four months, after the company's earnings forecast for 2005 was lower than expected.

"We are concerned that several businesses and programs, especially A380 development, appear to be encountering problems, and fear this could in part be evidence of management distraction due to recent management conflict within the company," London- based Goldman Sachs analyst Sash Tusa wrote in a note to investors.

EADS shares have gained almost 18 percent since the beginning of the year.

Goldman Sachs said the company's expectations were about 10 percent below what it had estimated.

Forgeard, in the Le Monde interview, said the A380 cost overrun would have little impact on the profitability of the program and said Airbus still expects to achieve 10 percent operating margins in 2005.

"Concerning the A380, the most important parameter is the production cost for each plane, and for that, we are in line," he was quoted as saying in French. "On the other hand, it's true that the research and development costs, estimated at $10.7 billion, will be surpassed."

Forgeard's admission that the program is running over budget comes just months before the 555-seat A380 is scheduled for its first test flight, by March 2005. The double-decker planes make its public rollout in Toulouse, France, home of Airbus, later next month. It will enter service in 2006.

P-I aerospace reporter James Wallace contributed to this report by Bloomberg News.

[Daquan13]

This plane will NEVER receive the reecogition, acceptance, welcoming with open arms & immense popularity & award-winning performance that as made the Boeing 747 so famous!

Close to about 1,400 747's have been made & sold so far, & the plane is STILL production today!! The first A-380 still has yet to even fly!! It just might put Airbus Industrie into a financial slump
which would give Boeing the edge that it needs to once again bounce back & take over as the world's most dominating aircraft maker!!!

I'd LOVE to see that!!!

[Fabb]

This plane will NEVER receive the reecogition, acceptance, welcoming with open arms & immense popularity & award-winning performance that as made the Boeing 747 so famous!

Hopefully, it will achieve a different status.

[Rachmaninov]

I wish Boeing would bounce back too but I can't be sure if A380 would "NEVER receive the reecogition, acceptance, welcoming with open arms & immense popularity & award-winning performance that as made the Boeing 747 so famousNEVER receive the reecogition, acceptance, welcoming with open arms & immense popularity & award-winning performance that as made the Boeing 747 so famous". Anyway, the 747 was designed for military use and when the USA rejected it Boeing changed it into a civilian plane instead.

[Fabb]

The Boeing 747 was great of course.
I just hope that in the A380, passengers will have more room and long flights will be less exhausting.

[banned]

Development of the A380 will exceed earlier cost estimates by between about 5 percent and 15 percent, said Noel Forgeard, chief executive of Airbus. The new plane program could cost as much as $2 billion more than the original $10.7 billion cost that had been projected, he said.

Fuzzy math

[Daquan13]

The Boeing 747 was great of course.



To the contrary. I beg your pardon. It STILL IS great!! And it's getting even better.

Though this plane still has yet to succeed in ever having its fuselage stretched, Boeing is planning to make the craft even better than it is now.

Here are some of the very latest developments:

!. Plans are in the works for the plane's next varient, the 747-400 Advanced. This version would include much more improved cockpit instrumentaion, better fuel efficiency, higher gross weight , higher take-off weight, lighter composite materials & quieter much more powerful fuel-efficient engines. As well as modified landing gear to take on the increased overall weight of the craft.

2. Work is also underway for the development program which calls for at least THREE 747 Large Cargo Freighters (LCF'S).

These special freighters would neccesitate three 747-400's being modified by adding huge bouble-type fuselage tops to the already 21-foot wide airframes!

This will be done specifically for the transportation of parts such as whole fuselage & wing sections for the forthcoming production of the firm's newest planned jetliner, the 7E7 Dreamliner which Boeing expects to put into production soon.

This newest freighter will save 20% to 40% over traditional
shipping methods and will reduce the amount of time it takes the large parts to arrive at the Everett plant from as many as 30 days to one day. And instead of the usual lift-up nose which is common place on existing 747 freighters, this much more newer version will feature a side-swing tail section which will open fully at the plane's rear to easily accommodate whole fuselage & wing sections!

3. Doing this could very well open the door for potential airlines & air carriers to seriously inquire about ordering some of these LCF'S to add to their existing fleets of freighters, which could again put the 747 way on top, capitalizing on the embarrassment & defeatism that the A-380 could very well suffer!!:eat: :eat: :eat: :eat: :eat: :hilarious :hilarious :hilarious :hilarious :hilarious :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes:

[John F]

You know, Daquan13 -- there is such a thing as being too overzealous and you're going there. I'd call it racism of sorts if this wasnt about inanimate objects.

I hate General Motors but I don't bash them openly and often and illogically at that. I don't wish for their failure because I think other car companies are better. I wish they'd get with the program.

I also don't hold back compliments or stick my head in the sand when I see something that could be complimented about that much-despised automaker.

You're not exactly adding anything to the discussion by lobbying more for Boeing... This thread is for the Airbus A380. If you want to suck on the 747's member a little more, there are plenty of threads that have already been made on this tite for you to continue to do it. :rolleyes:

[Daquan13]

You got a problem with me talking about the 747 in this thread?

I simply don't like Airbus Industrie, not because of their nationality, race or creed, but because they think that they are superior to Boeing. The A-380 IS bigger than the 747, yes.

But their ego, just like yours now, had made their heads feel ten times their normal sizes.

I've only got one more thing to say to you:

Deal with it & get over it.:hilarious :hilarious :hilarious :hilarious :hilarious :hilarious :hilarious :hilarious :hilarious :hilarious :hilarious :hilarious :hilarious :hilarious

[Rachmaninov]

Let's just post information on the A380 and post our opinions and that's it. No need for arguments.
Although I dislike the A380, I still find it interesting. Can anybody compare the engines of A380 and Boeing 777?

[Daquan13]

The engines on both of these planes would be quite similar.

The main difference lies in power, which the A-380 would more than likely have more powerful engines because of its huge size.

And as you already know, the 777 uses two of these monster engines, whereas the A-380 has four.

[Horizon in air]

The T7's engines(Trent 875/7, GE-90 :75,000 ~77,000for the 772, 84,000lb for the 772ER, 110,000lb for the772LR ,92,000lb for the 773, and 115,300lb for the 773ER)seemed to have more thrust than the A388/A388 HGW's Trent 900&GP-7200(67,890lb/HGW version:69915lb).

[tonyo]

BusinessWeek

DECEMBER 27, 2004

Commentary: Is Airbus Caught In A Downdraft?
Cost overruns on the A380 and a new midsize jet will hurt the bottom line


It's supposed to be the moment of triumph for Airbus Chief Executive Noël Forgeard. On Jan. 18 a star-studded crowd, including four European heads of state, will gather in Toulouse, France, as the first completed airframe of an Airbus A380 rolls out of the factory. The biggest passenger plane ever built, the doubledecker A380 is on schedule to enter service in early 2006. Forgeard, 58, may even have a new title by then. He's being backed by the French government for a big promotion, to co-CEO of Airbus parent European Aeronautics Defence & Space Co. next year.

But two events have cast a shadow over both Airbus and Forgeard. On Dec. 10 the EADS board O.K.'d plans for a new midsize jet, the A350, that Airbus wants to put in service in 2010 to counter Boeing Co.'s (BA ) superefficient 7E7. Although Airbus earlier hinted at a modest retooling of its existing A330 to match the 7E7, the A350 is a more ambitious overhaul that will cost at least $5.3 billion, but still not yield all the advantages of a brand new design. Then, on Dec. 12, Forgeard told a French newspaper that the A380 is running as much as $2 billion over budget.

These developments could spell big trouble. Startup costs for the A380 were expected to drop off sharply from a peak of $1.6 billion this year, to less than $700 million by 2007. Analysts thought Airbus would be able to tap at least $2 billion in additional cash flow over the next three years, enough to finance a modest A350. Now investors fret that paying for two planes will squeeze EADS' bottom line. The company's shares fell 4% on Dec. 13 after EADS predicted a 2005 operating profit of $3.2 billion, about 15% below analyst expectations. The prospect of a management reshuffle only adds to the nervousness. "The Airbus team has its hands full, so why change horses now?" says Lehman Brothers Inc. analyst Joseph Campbell.

Now that Airbus can't finance the A350 out of cash flow, it will almost certainly seek sizable loans from European governments. That move will raise the temperature of an already heated U.S.-European dispute over aircraft subsidies. Although Airbus has received billions in such loans under a 1992 bilateral agreement, the U.S. maintains the European planemaker no longer needs help because it has pulled ahead of Boeing. Washington is threatening legal action before the World Trade Organization. "We're serious about the litigation option," U.S. Trade Representative Robert Zoellick told a BusinessWeek conference in Paris on Dec. 7.

The risks don't end there. Industry watchers think the A350 will doom one of Airbus' best-selling planes. The A330, which seats 250 to 350 passengers, is the closest aircraft in Airbus' lineup to the 210-to-250-seat 7E7. As recently as this fall, management was arguing that the A330 could hold its own against the 7E7 without major modifications. But now Airbus proposes an ambitious makeover, with a more efficient engine and a new wing. "It's going to either cannibalize or completely destroy the market for the A330 in just a few years," says Doug McVitie, a Scottish aerospace analyst who once worked at Airbus. Boeing is exultant. "By offering the A350, they have thrown their 20-year product strategy out the window," says Randy Baesler, Boeing's vice-president for marketing.

Certainly, the picture's not all gloomy. Airbus is set to deliver 320 planes this year, compared with 285 for Boeing. Forgeard says he plans to achieve $2 billion in cost savings from 2004 through 2006, mostly due to better efficiency: "Overall we have margins, before R&D, that are about 5 percentage points higher than Boeing's."

Yet Forgeard's 11th-hour challenge to the 7E7 suggests that Airbus underestimated the market potential for a more efficient midsize jet. As for the A380, Forgeard didn't make clear that even before the recently acknowledged cost overruns, development costs had soared far above the original $10.7 billion estimate, as the dollar has declined 30% against the euro since the project's start in 2000. On Dec. 14, EADS finally fessed up. The total price tag, including the overruns is at least $15.9 billion. Forgeard has built a powerful company in Airbus. But these aren't the kinds of numbers investors like.


By Carol Matlack

[oracle]

The A380 is very interesting for carriers since its costing less to operate than others. Moving 600 passengers together takes less time and money for gas etc than using two 300 passenger aircrafts.

However the A380 will be the largest size for an aircraft for ever probably, because a larger plane would cause air motion around the plane that may be dangerous for following ones. Wingtips are there to reduce this specific problem a little bit, because when a plane travels, it creates gigantic vertical rotative wind currents that stay in the air minutes after the plane passed.

[F4shionablecHa0s]

btw, just to clear things up: The 777's engines are going to be a lot more powerful than the 380's engines. The 380 may be a lot bigger than the 777, but not enough to warrant four of the most powerful commercial jet engines ever built.

The most powerful variant of the 777, the 777-300ER uses two engines that provide 115,300 lbs of thrust each.

The most powerful variant of the A380, the A380-800HGW will use four engines that provide 69,915 lbs of thrust each.

The 777 is like the Porsche of the aviation world. It may be more expensive than it's rivals (The A340, primarily) but it can fly circles around them in many ways.

[Daquan13]

Agreed.

[Horizon in air]

The A380 is very interesting for carriers since its costing less to operate than others. Moving 600 passengers together takes less time and money for gas etc than using two 300 passenger aircrafts.

However the A380 will be the largest size for an aircraft for ever probably, because a larger plane would cause air motion around the plane that may be dangerous for following ones. Wingtips are there to reduce this specific problem a little bit, because when a plane travels, it creates gigantic vertical rotative wind currents that stay in the air minutes after the plane passed.

The An-225 is even larger
An-225
Wingspan 290 ft (88.4m), lenght -- 84,00m, height -- 18,10.
Max. take off weight -- 600000kg

A380
A380-800 Wing span 79.8m (261ft 10in), length 73m (239ft 6in). Height 24,1 m (79ft 1in)
A380-800 - Operating empty 275,000kg (606,000lb), max takeoff 548,000kg (1,208,000lb).
A380-800HGW - Max takeoff 560,000kg (1,235,000lb).


(data from Airliners.net)

[Stratosphere]

Yep! The Antonov An-225 is still the world's largest airplane.

http://www.aeronautics.ru/img/img005/an-225_charter_us_army.jpg

http://www.ginklai.net/images/galerija/5771_an225.jpg

http://www.astronomija.co.yu/istorija/letovi/buran/An225_2.jpg

http://www.f4aviation.co.uk/airshow01/paris/An-225ld.jpg

[Daquan13]

Great pics, Stratosphere!!

But that's not an airliner, neither is the Galaxy C-5A. It's more or less used to transport squadron troops or military vehicles in times of war. This is still the biggest cargo plane.

It looks reminiscent of the C-5A. Three things are most noticable though. The number of engines, the main landing gear & the tail.

The A-380 is STILL the largest passenger JETLINER.

[Stratosphere]

Breaking news:

Japan Airlines Is Newest Boeing 7E7 Dreamliner Customer

http://www.boeing.com/news/releases/2004/photorelease/q4/041222g.jpg

SEATTLE , Dec. 22, 2004 -- The Boeing Company [NYSE: BA] today announced that Japan Airlines Corporation (JAL) has selected the Boeing 7E7 Dreamliner as its next generation mid-sized twin aisle aircraft. JAL's requirement for 30 firm deliveries and 20 options will be fulfilled with a combination of 7E7-3s and 7E7-8s.

Deliveries are to begin in 2008, as replacements for JAL's Boeing 767s and Airbus A300-600s. The airline has not yet made a decision on which engines will power its planes.

"In selecting the 7E7, Japan Airlines continues to demonstrate leadership and vision for the future of commercial aviation,” said Boeing Commercial Airplanes President and Chief Executive Officer Alan Mulally. "The 7E7 will provide JAL the best in efficiency, economics, and reliability, and it will provide passengers with unprecedented levels of comfort while taking them where they want to go, when they want to go, non-stop, point-to-point anywhere in the world."

Japan Airlines is the latest 7E7 launch customer, joining ANA (All Nippon Airways), Air New Zealand, Blue Panorama, First Choice and Primaris Airlines. Customer-announced orders for the 7E7 now total 112 airplanes, with 56 under firm contract. Negotiations continue with additional customers worldwide.

“The 7E7 will be the key airplane on a variety of domestic and international routes and will provide outstanding flexibility in our route planning,” said Takenori Matsumoto, senior managing director, Japan Airlines Corp. “We are very excited about the benefits of the 7E7 and the wonderful flying experience that it will provide our customers.”

In joining the 7E7 launch group, JAL will be involved in the 7E7 family's future development. The 7E7 is being designed with airlines, passengers, investors and the environment in mind.

The 7E7 family includes three airplanes seating 200- to 300 passengers that will fly between 3,500 and 8,500 nautical miles (6,500 to 16,000 kilometers). The 7E7 will allow airlines to offer passengers more of what they want: affordable, comfortable, non-stop, point-to-point travel to more destinations around the world.

The airplane will use 20 percent less fuel than today's airplanes of comparable size and provide customers with up to 45 percent more cargo revenue capacity. Passengers will find significant innovations including a new interior environment with higher humidity, wider seats and aisles, larger windows, and other conveniences.

In addition to bringing big-jet ranges to mid-size airplanes, the 7E7 will fly at Mach 0.85, as fast as today's fastest commercial airplanes, while using much less fuel.

The 7E7 will have a standard engine interface for its two engine types, the General Electric GENX (GE Next Generation) or Rolls Royce's Trent 1000, allowing it to be fitted with either at any point in time.

Boeing launched the 7E7 in April. Production will begin in 2006. First flight is expected in 2007 with certification, delivery and entry into service in 2008.

[Stratosphere]

Need a new wallpaper?

http://assets.newairplane.com/en-US/desktop5_Large.jpg

http://www.airbus.com/MultimediaElements/2415.jpg

More 7E7s here (http://www.newairplane.com/en-US/FunStuff/Desktops.html)

More A380s here (http://www.airbus.com/dynamic/media/photo.asp)

[Daquan13]

Incidently, ALL of Boeing's airliners in production took on this new look & paint scheme. It started with the 7E7, then went to the 737. Now the 717, 747, 767, & 777 will get it also. Every plane coming off the assembly line will be painted with thid NEW color scheme.

The old white with thin blue, white & red stripes with the belly painted medium blue are gone. This NEW look presents a stiking new image for the company.

[Stratosphere]

^

http://assets.newairplane.com/en-US/Family_poster.jpg

[Daquan13]

Magnificent!!!

[oracle]

why is it called dreamliner ?

[vincent]

which company made the An-225?

[Stratosphere]

why is it called dreamliner ?
Because of the unsurpassed flying experience the 7E7 will provide, as promised by Boeing. Larger windows, higher humidity, larger seats & headroom & legroom, quieter than even the 777, and a totally new cabin design.

[Stratosphere]

which company made the An-225?
The An-225 Myria (Myria = Dream) was designed by the Antonov Aircraft Design Bureau (Russia) and built in Ukraine. It was derived from the An-124. The fuselage was streched substantially. The wings were lengthened and equiped with 6 engines instead of 4. Other changes include twin-fins tail, 7 instead of 5 pairs of undercarriage wheels on each side, and fly-by-wire control.

The An-225 was a part of the Soviet space program, especially designed to carry the Buran space shuttle (Buran = Snow Storm). Notice the humps on its back. Only one An-225 was built, which first flew on December 21, 1988. The second one is still unfinished and is currently stored somewhere in Ukraine.

http://home.t-online.de/home/Nightowl-FXS/AN225_spec04.jpg

[Fabb]

Six reactors. What a monster !

[Stratosphere]

Q: What's the other airplane that has the honor of carrying a space shuttle on its back?

A: The Boeing 747

http://www.ktb.net/~billmeco/enter747.JPG

http://www.muenster.de/~c-s/astronomie/sts05.jpg

http://grin.hq.nasa.gov/IMAGES/SMALL/GPN-2000-000183.jpg

[Stratosphere]

Size comparison: An-225, A380, 747-400

http://ebozz.net/photos/8581.jpg

[Horizon in air]

which company made the An-225?
The An-225 Myria (Myria = Dream) was designed by the Antonov Aircraft Design Bureau (Russia) and built in Ukraine. It was derived from the An-124. The fuselage was streched substantially. The wings were lengthened and equiped with 6 engines instead of 4. Other changes include twin-fins tail, 7 instead of 5 pairs of undercarriage wheels on each side, and fly-by-wire control.

The An-225 was a part of the Soviet space program, especially designed to carry the Buran space shuttle (Buran = Snow Storm). Notice the humps on its back. Only one An-225 was built, which first flew on December 21, 1988. The second one is still unfinished and is currently stored somewhere in Ukraine.

http://home.t-online.de/home/Nightowl-FXS/AN225_spec04.jpg
EDIT:
pics of the second An-225 (from Airliners.net)
link:http://www.airliners.net/open.file/699985/M/

[Stratosphere]

Horizon,

Pictures on Airliners.net are copyrighted and can't be posted outside of that website. Give us a link instead.

[Stratosphere]

World's 5 Largest Airplanes:

1. Antonov An-225 (Russia)
Length: 84.0 m (275 ft 7 in)
Height: 18.2 m (59 ft 9 in)
Wing span: 88.4 m (290 ft)
Max takeoff: 600,000 kg (1,322,750 lb)

2. Lockheed C5 Galaxy (USA)
Lengh: 75.3 m (247 ft 10 in)
Height: 19.8 m (65 ft 1 in)
Wing span: 67.9 m (222 ft 9 in)
Max takeoff: 378,000 kg (840,000 lb)

3. Airbus A380 (Europe)
Length: 73.0 m (239 ft 6 in)
Height: 24.1 m (79 ft 1 in)
Wind span: 79.8 m (261 ft 10 in)
Max takeoff: 548,000 kg (1,208,000 lb) / 560,000kg (1,235,000lb) for Increased Gross Weight model

4. Boeing 747-400 (USA)
Length: 70.7 m (231 ft 10 in)
Height: 19.3 m (63 ft 5 in)
Wing span: 64.4 m (211 ft 5 in)
Max takeoff: 412,769 kg (910,000 lb)

5. An-124 (Russia)
Length: 69.60 m (226 ft 9 in)
Height: 20.78 m (68 ft 2 in)
Wing span: 73.3 m (240 ft 6 in)
Max takeoff: 405,000 kg (892,875 lb)

C-5 Galaxy
http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/c-5.jpg

http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/c5_2.jpg

An-124
http://home.t-online.de/home/Nightowl-FXS/AN124_bluefly.jpg

[vincent]

is the B2 bomber (or B something) one of the largest aircraft too? i think it is big.

[Horizon in air]

okay I'll replace them eith the links

[urbanflyer]

Slight inaccuracy with the data above stratosphere...in regard to the 747-400, current 747-400ER and ER Freighter models are being offered with maximum takeoff weights of 910,000 lbs.

[Stratosphere]

Slight inaccuracy with the data above stratosphere...in regard to the 747-400, current 747-400ER and ER Freighter models are being offered with maximum takeoff weights of 910,000 lbs.
Thanks!;) It has been fixed.

[Stratosphere]

is the B2 bomber (or B something) one of the largest aircraft too? i think it is big.
The B-52 is the largest bomber in the world but nowhere near the sizes of the ones in that list.

Length: 48.5 meters (159 ft 4 in)
Height: 12.4 m (40 ft 8 in)
Wingspan: 56.4 m (185 ft)
Max takeoff: 219,600 kg (488,000 lb)

[Stratosphere]

Wow...the 7E7 is selling like hot cakes. Just 7 days after Japan Airlines' announcement...

Continental Airlines to Order 10 Boeing 7E7s, Accelerates Leases for Next-Generation 737s, Adds 757s to Fleet

http://www.boeing.com/news/releases/2004/photorelease/q4/041229g.jpg

SEATTLE, Dec. 29, 2004 -- Boeing [NYSE: BA] and Continental Airlines today announced major steps in support of the airline's growth, including its plans to purchase ten 7E7 Dreamliner airplanes.

The companies signed an agreement calling for delivery of the 7E7-8s beginning in 2009. The 7E7 order is valued at approximately US$1.3 billion at list prices. Boeing and Continental expect to formally complete the agreement early in 2005.

Continental is the first major U.S. carrier to announce plans to acquire the technologically advanced and highly efficient airplane slated to enter service in 2008.

"The 7E7 is simply a game changer," said Gordon Bethune, Continental Airline's chairman and chief executive officer. "It will position Continental for significant international growth from our New York and Houston hubs over the next decade."

This agreement increases to 122 the number of customer-announced 7E7 orders since the program's launch in April of this year. Firm contracts are in place for 56 airplanes and negotiations continue with additional launch team customers worldwide.

"Continental is a bellwether addition to the 7E7 Launch Team," said Mike Bair, Boeing vice president and general manager of the 7E7 program. "Continental understands the superior operating economics, faster turnaround times and lower maintenance costs of Boeing airplanes."

The other 7E7 Launch Team members are ANA, Air New Zealand , Europe 's Blue Panorama and First Choice, Primaris of the U.S. and Japan Airlines. " This order plus the previously announced orders demonstrate the Dreamliner's unprecedented appeal for a wide range of airlines with distinct business models," said Bair.

Under the terms of the agreement Continental also will lease eight Boeing 757-300s starting in 2005, and will accelerate the delivery of six Boeing 737-800s into 2006. The 757s will be delivered beginning in July.

"The 7E7 is the widebody of the future for Continental, and will provide the platform for our long-term international growth," said Larry Kellner, Continental's president and COO. "Leasing these additional 757 and 737 aircraft will be another step in outdistancing our competitors in this rapidly changing environment."

With the 7E7 Dreamliner, Boeing continues its leadership and innovation with a largely composite airplane that burns 20 percent less fuel, provides airlines with up to 60 percent more cargo revenue capacity and offers passengers a better flying experience. The 7E7 sets the standard for interior passenger comfort, allowing higher cabin humidity, lower atmospheric pressurization, wider seats and aisles, larger windows and unmatched stowage capacity.

[Daquan13]

Also, Vietnam Airlines has placed an order for some of the 7E7's.

[John F]

Nice spin, guys...

After these announcements came out there were articles about the slow lag of sales -- Continetlas commitment was shocking to the industry....

I also want to give props for the thread hijack:rolleyes:

[KingKrunch]

John F is right, back to topic. Airliners.net has some nice new pictures of the A380.
http://www.airliners.net/open.file/751309/L/
http://www.airliners.net/open.file/753464/L/
http://www.airliners.net/open.file/753463/L/

[Daquan13]

Great pics!

Does anyone know if this plane has flown yet?

The latest news is that it still has yet to fly. What's taking them so long?

[Fabb]

I think that the big day will be sometime next April.

In the news today :

Tuesday, January 11, 2005

Airbus gets order from UPS for 10 cargo jets

By ANDREA ROTHMAN
BLOOMBERG NEWS

Airbus won an order from package-delivery company United Parcel Service Inc. for 10 Airbus A380 cargo jets valued at $2.8 billion.

UPS said it ordered the aircraft because of growing demand for international deliveries. In the quarter ended Sept. 30, shipments carried by the Atlanta-based company between countries rose 13 percent, including a 29 percent rise in shipments out of Asia.

"It's a positive thing for Airbus to get an order from the world's biggest freight carrier," said analyst Paul Nisbet at JSA Research in Newport, R.I. The A380 enters cargo service in 2008 and will compete with The Boeing Co.'s 747.

UPS said yesterday that it's also reducing to 53 from 90 an existing order for smaller Airbus A300-600s. UPS has received 40 of those planes and plans to take the rest by July 2006. The A380s will be delivered from 2009 through 2012, and the delivery company holds options to buy 10 more.

"Airbus is probably losing more backlog than they're gaining," Nisbet said of UPS' decision to drop some orders for the 300-600 aircraft.

Winning another big customer helps Airbus build a demand base for the A380 freighter. Airbus has firm orders for 129 of the A380s and commitments for another 10. The planes have a list price of about $280 million each, with companies often given discounts for large orders.

"We have looked at all different types of aircraft, but in terms of this aircraft order, there is not another plane that has both the range and carrying capacity the A380 has," said Mark Giuffre, a UPS spokesman.

United Parcel Service owns and operates 268 jets, including 228 Boeing models and the 40 A300- 600s. The company charters 298 other aircraft each day.

UPS rival FedEx Corp. signed a contract in 2002 for 10 of the freighter versions of the A380. The cargo model debuts two years after the 555-seat passenger version. The A380 will be the world's largest passenger airplane, surpassing the 747.

[Horizon in air]

Great pics!

Does anyone if this plane has flown yet?

The latest news is that it still has yet to fly. What's taking them so long?
no it' hasn't, the official roll-out date is Jan 18th. if you are expecting the first flight --you'll have to wait till March 31st.

[Daquan13]

I think that the big day will be sometime next April.

In the news today :

Tuesday, January 11, 2005

Airbus gets order from UPS for 10 cargo jets

By ANDREA ROTHMAN
BLOOMBERG NEWS

Airbus won an order from package-delivery company United Parcel Service Inc. for 10 Airbus A380 cargo jets valued at $2.8 billion.

UPS said it ordered the aircraft because of growing demand for international deliveries. In the quarter ended Sept. 30, shipments carried by the Atlanta-based company between countries rose 13 percent, including a 29 percent rise in shipments out of Asia.

"It's a positive thing for Airbus to get an order from the world's biggest freight carrier," said analyst Paul Nisbet at JSA Research in Newport, R.I. The A380 enters cargo service in 2008 and will compete with The Boeing Co.'s 747.

UPS said yesterday that it's also reducing to 53 from 90 an existing order for smaller Airbus A300-600s. UPS has received 40 of those planes and plans to take the rest by July 2006. The A380s will be delivered from 2009 through 2012, and the delivery company holds options to buy 10 more.

"Airbus is probably losing more backlog than they're gaining," Nisbet said of UPS' decision to drop some orders for the 300-600 aircraft.

Winning another big customer helps Airbus build a demand base for the A380 freighter. Airbus has firm orders for 129 of the A380s and commitments for another 10. The planes have a list price of about $280 million each, with companies often given discounts for large orders.

"We have looked at all different types of aircraft, but in terms of this aircraft order, there is not another plane that has both the range and carrying capacity the A380 has," said Mark Giuffre, a UPS spokesman.

United Parcel Service owns and operates 268 jets, including 228 Boeing models and the 40 A300- 600s. The company charters 298 other aircraft each day.

UPS rival FedEx Corp. signed a contract in 2002 for 10 of the freighter versions of the A380. The cargo model debuts two years after the 555-seat passenger version. The A380 will be the world's largest passenger airplane, surpassing the 747.



Cargo? Freighter?

What's the difference? Aren't they both the same?

[Inspire]

http://individual.utoronto.ca/izomax/A380/1.jpg

http://individual.utoronto.ca/izomax/A380/2.jpg

http://individual.utoronto.ca/izomax/A380/3.jpg

http://individual.utoronto.ca/izomax/A380/4.jpg

http://individual.utoronto.ca/izomax/A380/5.jpg

http://individual.utoronto.ca/izomax/A380/6.jpg

http://individual.utoronto.ca/izomax/A380/7.jpg

[Zerton]

It would look way better if they made the nose sharper.

[Adrian]

The new corporate tail...

http://planepictures.net/netshow.php?id=294528

.. awaiting unveiling on Jan 17th !!

[Daquan13]

It would look way better if they made the nose sharper.



Yeah, the plane seems to have a droop nose of sorts. It seems to have practically the same undercarriage system as the 747 - 18 wheels.

What I'd like to know is whether the thing will still be operated by
only two people or three?

Looks too large for only a two-person crew in the "front office".

And note the unique egg-shaped fuselage when viewed head on.

No house markings on it yet.

[Stratosphere]

Aesthetically, that big forehead doesn't look very nice. It would look better if they raised the cockpit to the 2nd floor and extended the first floor all the way to the nose (kinda like the 747's design.)

[Daquan13]

If they did that, then they would more than likely have a huge lawsuit on their hands from Boeing.

Remember, these two companies don't get along They are at each others' throats over prior acheivements by Boeing in recent years.

Judging from the front of the plane anyway, looks like there's a lot of wasted space between the cockpit & the 2nd floor.

Also, I wouldn't want to be the one to have to clean the inside of THAT plane!!

[The Chemist]

I count 20 wheels on the main undercarriage - 6 each on the 2 central bogies, plus 4 each on the wing bogies. And 2 at the nose makes for 22 wheels total.

I think the region on the upper level between the cockpit and the first windows is where the front staircase is.

I'd be very surprised if this had a crew of any more than 2. The 747 no longer needs a third crewmember, and I have no reason to believe that the highly computerized A380 would be any different.

I personally think it looks fantastic - and very huge. The engines are enormous, too. I can't wait to see it fly.

[Daquan13]

You might be right about the staircase.

I thought about that also after I wrote the last post.

Yes, ALL commercial jetliners today use two men or women in the cocckpit. Mainly because the craft have completely computerized
digital cockpit instrumentation, which replaces most or all of the old-fashioned dials, gauges & knobs & gadgets on the control panel.

The better term that's used to describe this is an ILS glass cockpit. The high-tech ultra-modern digital avionics does its main purpose also. It replaces the navigator or flight engineer, who used to sit on the starboard side behind the first officer.

While the captain & first officer flew the plane, the flight engineer or navigator's main job was to check engine functions, air temps, pressurization, outside temps, weather conditions, operating charactoristics, things of that nature.

The A-380 will be the very first superjumbo to be flown by just two pilots! This plane, I'm sure, when put into revenue service, will be used for ultra-long-haul flights of 10 hours or more.

That means that there will have to be TWO sets of pilots & two or four extra flight attendants on board.

To make the most efficient use of this, bunkrooms must be supplied on board at strategic locations on the plane. One set will always be standing by to take over while the other set hits the sack & takes about a two or three-hour sleep.

The 747-400 has these & there's no reason why the A-380 would not have them.

[The Chemist]

^The A340-600, the longest range commercial airliner in the world (can fly the LA-Singapore route, a 19-hour flight, non-stop), has bunks for a second set of crew, both flight crew and cabin crew. I'd say it's becoming commonplace for the long haul planes that fly the extraordinarily long routes around the Pacific Ocean, so I'd say it's highly likely that the A380 will have the crew bunks as well.

[Daquan13]

I would hate to burst the A-340's bubble, but waiting to unseat that plane as Queen of the Long Hauls is the Boeing 777-200LR (Longer Range).

Boeing plans to make it's most popular widebody Jetliner the longest range one in the world over the A-340. The plane is in production now with the first one coming off the assembly line later this year.

[Stratosphere]

The A340-600 is not the longest range conmmercial airliner in the world.

Currently:

1. 777-200 LR: 16,417 km (8865 nm)
2. A340-500: 15,742 km (8500 nm)
3. 777-200 ER: 14,316 km (7730 nm)
4. 747-400 ER: 14,205 km (7670 nm)
5. A340-600: 13,890 km (7500 nm)

Future airliners:

7E7-3 Dreamliner: 6,500 km (3,500 nm)
7E7-8 Dreamliner: 15,700 km (8,500 nm) *launch model
7E7-9 Dreamliner: 15,400 km (8,300 nm)
A380-700: ???
A380-800: 15,100 km (8,150 nm) *launch model
A380-900: ???

[Daquan13]

The 7E7 will eventually be renamed the 787.

Boeing is waiting on more orders that it antisipates from a few more Chinese airlines who have their sights set on the plane.

Like the 757 before it which had the designatated model number 7N7, it was eventulally renamed 757.

The A380 also had a predesignated model number, A3XX.

Why do jetliner makers do this when they know that the model they'll soon manufactor is the very next model number in line?

[vincent]

does info like mpg (miles per gallon) for commerical plane available anywhere online?? i know mpg of planes vary much larger than car due to many factors like wind speed, plane loading, turbulace etc. But assuming empty load or full load with average wind speed.
I guess it is the largest factor that airline company want to know before buying the plane. (behind the cost of the plane)

[Daquan13]

Most airlines & airplane makers use the term nautical miles.

Supposedly equal to the term airspeed and or ground speed.

For instance, the distance from Boston to Chicago in terms of the
airlines is about 867 miles, probably the amount of nautical miles it takes to get there.

Driving that distance, of course, would take much longer, use more gasoline & would be more miles.

Since even a small jet travels much faster in the air than an automobile does on the ground, the time saved traveling by air is much greater.

Hence the truly beauty of flying! You reach your destination in just mere hours, not days or weeks!

[superchan7]

Incredible.

[Fabb]

A hulking beast joins the dogfight
Jan 13th 2005
From The Economist Global Agenda

Airbus is about to unveil its new A380 super-jumbo (pictured). Will the 555-seat monster leave Boeing trailing in its wake?

http://www.economist.com/images/GA/2005w03/airb2.jpg
AP

AS DISTINCTIVE Routemaster double-decker buses disappear from the streets of London, Airbus is set to unveil a double-decker passenger jet that it hopes will repeat the success of a vehicle that is every bit as iconic: Boeing’s 747. The European consortium’s A380 super-jumbo, which is to be formally unveiled at a lavish ceremony on Tuesday January 18th, will break the 747’s longstanding monopoly of the big-jet market when it enters service in 2006. Everything about the new plane is big, from its capacity of 555 paying customers and range of 15,000km (9,320 miles) to the purpose-built hangar, one of Europe’s largest enclosed spaces, at its construction site near Toulouse in southern France. Bigger, longer-range versions are planned and so far orders have been taken for 149 super-jumbos, over halfway to break-even point.

The size of the project reflects estimates about the future demand for air travel. Despite the recent travails of big airlines, both Airbus and Boeing expect a tripling of air-passenger traffic over the next 20 years. But the transatlantic rivals disagree about how the demand should be met. Airbus thinks an extra 16,600 new large planes (over 100 seats)—a doubling of the number of passenger aircraft currently flying—will do the trick, and expects that the average number of seats in aircraft will increase by 20%, to 215. By contrast, Boeing expects sales of 18,600 slightly smaller planes.

Airbus is hoping that the A380 will help it retain the lead it gained over Boeing in 2003, when, for the first time since the European consortium emerged as a rival to Boeing in the early 1970s, it delivered more aircraft than its American competitor. Airbus, to Boeing’s extreme displeasure, kept the number-one slot in 2004 by delivering 320 planes compared with 285 from its rival, according to figures released this week.

Boeing’s seemingly unassailable lead over Airbus was founded on the success of the 747, which entered service in 1970. The original jumbo jet could carry twice as many passengers as the next largest plane then flying and had a greater range, allowing, for example, a long transatlantic flight without refuelling. Its cost per passenger mile was around one-third less than its rivals. A huge home market for the jumbo and the rest of the Boeing range ensured its ascendancy. Some 1,400 747s have been sold to date.

However, only 15 were delivered last year. And as the jumbo has aged, Boeing’s domination of the commercial airways has foundered. The aerospace giant’s product line is ailing, and attempts to revive it have met with only partial success. The big airlines showed little interest in an upgraded jumbo. And a red-faced Boeing was forced to withdraw its Sonic Cruiser, a plane intended to fly at near the speed of sound, after airlines rejected the idea that passengers would pay a hefty premium for such rapid transit.

Boeing’s latest attempt to put things right, the 250-seat 7E7 “Dreamliner”, is born out of a belief that passengers will demand, and future deregulation allow, a big increase in “point-to-point” travel: direct flights between small and medium-sized cities, as opposed to the traditional hub-and-spoke model, in which international passengers fly between a few major airports and are then taken to more out of the way places on feeder flights. Boeing hopes the new plane will prove popular with the time-conscious business flyer. It says that the 7E7’s advanced engines will cut airlines’ fuel costs by 20%. So far it has received 56 firm orders.

The A380, by contrast, is designed to fly between big hubs. Its critics say it will mean longer journey times for passengers with onward flights to smaller destinations. But Airbus is claiming a similar step-change to the one that accompanied the launch of the 747: operating costs will be 15-20% lower than those of any rival aircraft, it says. To add to Boeing’s discomfort, Airbus announced in December that it would introduce the A350 in direct competition with the Dreamliner, offering much the same specifications.

Boeing’s fears that it would be left in Airbus’s wake also prompted it to attack on another front. In October, America made a formal complaint to the World Trade Organisation alleging the payment of billions of dollars of “unfair” subsidies to Airbus. Boeing claims that “launch aid” has enabled Airbus to roll out five new products in the past ten years while it has managed just one. Like Airbus’s rapid response to the Dreamliner, the European Union immediately said that it would file a counter-claim over large sums of aid going to Boeing through indirect government subsidies from its relationship with NASA and the Pentagon. This week, the EU said that it was ready to compromise to resolve the dispute and both sides agreed to suspend hostilities (and subsidies) for three months of negotiations.

The huge projected market for passenger jets over the coming years will allow both aircraft-makers to sell plenty of new planes. The A380 aside, Airbus and Boeing seem evenly matched. The success of the super-jumbo may well determine how much higher the Europeans fly than the Americans in the next few years.

[iamrobk]

Yet another NA vs. EU thing......It's almost sad how even aircraft manufacturing has to turn into politics. Oh well. Anyway, I really hope Boeing "wins", because I much prefer direct flights (compared with the hub and spoke system).

[Daquan13]

The A-380 has to either match or overcome the 747's long 35-year mainstay & illustrious career as the dominating force in air travel.

And to be able to do that, the plane has to break into US markets & attract a major US airline, which it still has yet to do. While the 747 has won its way into just about every major airline, both in the USA & abroad, the A-380 so far, has only gained interest from
some of the international airlines.

While on the other hand, the 7E7, Boeing's newest multi-million-dollar jetliner not only has already stolen the hearts of some of the Chinese airlines, but it has now also convinced Continental
Airlines to sign on the dotted line for 10 of them!

Boeing is hoping that its new plane will score at least a few more hits with the Chinese carriers to help put the plane over the top.


While Airbus Industrie's newest entry, the A-350 has been given the go-ahead, and I'm not the least bit surprised that this were to happen, Boeing's new 7E7 Dreamliner will enjoy at least 2-1/2
years with no rivals. The A-350 was launched as a direct rival to the 7E7 & may bear an almost striking resemblence.

But by that time, the 7E7 will have already gained the number or odrders it needs to be a marvelous hit with the airlines & stay very competitive. With that, the 7E7 can truly be a force to be recconed
with!

[Stratosphere]

And to be able to do that, the plane has to break into US markets & attract a major US airline, which it still has yet to do.
It doesn't need to penetrate the US market to be a success, in my opinion. Out of a dozen important airlines, there are only two US carriers that operate the 747: United and Northwest.

FedEx and UPS also operate a very few old 747 models, but they bought those used from other airlines and converted them to freighter models.

[Daquan13]

But who was the very first airline ever to order the 747? Pan Am.

Boeing had wanted it to be was known back then as the largest
commercial jetliner ever. It needed at least one massive order of 25 of more planes to get the ball roling.

Then around April, 1966 then president & CEO of Pan Am, Juan Tripe has stepped forward & boldly ordered 25 of the monster planes.

In fact, even while the then new plant was still under construction, the 747 began it's life under the bones of what is known today as arguably the largest structure in the world in terms of actual floor-to-ceiling volume!

AMR was the first to order the DC-10.

Delta & Eastern had placed a massive orders for the L-1011.

But even though the 747 has now been surpssed by the much larger A-380, one thing still remains true. That it was the 747 that
started the whole thing; the move into the wide body era!

Airlines were practically banging on Boeing's doorsteps to order this plane. Just about every airline in every corner of the world
"came-a-knocking" to sign on the dotted line for this marvelous wonder of the jet age!

Boeing has actually struck gold three times with ALL of its widebodies. Once with the 747, 767 & the 777, the world's biggest most powerful twin-aisle twin-jet airliner!

The 777 is still breaking records even today. In fact, some of the int'l carriers have even replaced their much older aging 747-!00's,
-200's & -300's with the 777 because it's so fuel efficient that it can do the job that it's older larger siblings can do with only two engines!

And like the 777 before it, the 7E7 Dreamliner is already having a tremendous impact on Boeings other models. Becauce of the 7E7's new paint sceme, now ALL of Boeing planes are painted in this striking new dramatic house color sceme!

[2048]

Airbus to use 853-seat A380 for escape trial

Flight International, 11 Jan 2005

Airbus will conduct a trial emergency evacuation using the fourth A380 (MSN007) with 853 passengers to certificate the exit limit for the ultra-large aircraft.

The aircraft will be equipped with a special high-density interior during outfitting at its Hamburg Finkenwerder plant to simulate the maximum occupancy of the A380.

The A380 has 16 exit doors, including six on the upper deck that are 7.9m (26ft) above the ground when the aircraft is standing on its landing gear. The slides have been developed by Goodrich.

To comply with regulations, the aircraft has to be evacuated in 90s with half of the doors available. Airbus says it has received certain waivers from the authorities to improve safety for the volunteers, given the height of the upper deck and the number of passengers. These include being able to deploy the slides before the start of the evacuation trial, and not having to conduct the test in darkness.

Once the tests have been completed, the A380 will be reconfigured with a more representative, lower-density layout and used in the route-proving programme towards the end of this year.

MAX KINGSLEY-JONES / TOULOUSE

[Fabb]

Airbus "superjumbo" roll-out puts Boeing in Europe's slipstream

PARIS : The biggest passenger airliner the world has ever seen will roll out of its hangar for the first time next week to proud smiles from European leaders who backed its construction -- and a scowl from the US company Boeing, whose king-of-the-skies status has been lost.


For when the Airbus A380 emerges from its assembly hangar in Toulouse, southwest France, its huge, 80-metre (262-foot) wingspan will be carrying much more than technological advances -- it will also be a potent symbol of European prosperity and cooperation usurping American supremacy.

French President Jacques Chirac, German Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder, British Prime Minister Tony Blair and Spanish Prime Minister Jose Luis Rodruigez Zapatero will all be on hand to watch the giant aircraft presented with pomp before international media.

Their countries were key in allowing Airbus to develop and build the A380, which, once it clears test flights starting in March and begins commercial service next year, will easily eclipse the Boeing 747 that has reigned as the biggest people-mover in the skies over the past 25 years.

An A380 with a standard configuration of first, business and economy class will be able to seat 555 passengers on its two full-size decks -- 139 more than a similarly set-up 747 -- and offer unprecedented luxuries such as bars, bedrooms, gyms and lounges.

With an all-economy arrangement and no leg-stretching extras, the A380 will be able to pack in 840 passengers. In an all-freight configuration, it will hold 150 tonnes of cargo.

The cost efficiency of flying large numbers of people at an estimated 20 percent saving per passenger has prompted 13 airlines, including Emirates, Singapore Airlines, Qantas, Virgin Atlantic and Air France, to order a total 139 of the new Airbus "superjumbos", each of which has a catalogue price of between 263 and 286 million dollars.

Airbus, which is 80 percent a subsidiary of the European Aeronautic Defence and Space Company and 20 percent owned by Britain's BAE Systems, is banking on the juggernaut jet driving profits for decades to come.

"We're expecting deliveries to reach 35 a year from 2008. The A380 will account for 25-30 percent of our sales and a bigger part of our earnings," Airbus chief Noel Forgeard told Friday's edition of the German newspaper Sueddeutsche Zeitung.

But Boeing, which for the second year running has been trumped by Airbus for worldwide plane sales, is hitting back over the threat to its business.

A challenge it lodged over state subsidies to Airbus was headed to the World Trade Organisation for arbitration until last Tuesday, when both companies agreed a three-month truce for negotiations following a counter-challenge by Airbus over US aid for Boeing.

At the same time, the US company is pushing on with plans to build its 7E7 Dreamliner, a midsize long-range aircraft that puts fuel efficiency ahead of passenger loads.

So far, though, advance sales interest in the 7E7 has been disappointing -- and Airbus has also announced an A350 model to compete in the same market.

With Airbus on a roll, little seems to be standing in its way to parlaying A380 success into European dominance of commercial plane sales for the foreseeable future.

The only turbulence being felt in the company seems to be coming from the direction of the cockpit. Forgeard will be promoted to co-chief executive of EADS in a couple of months after strenuously dislodging Philippe Camus from the job.

The dollar's long slide against the euro is a source of potential concern, but Forgeard said Airbus's hedging policies will protect the company to 2007, pushing the prospect of significant margin-cutting off into the future.

- AFP

[Daquan13]

I would hate to burst you guys bubble,

But, even though the A-380 is about double the size of the 747,
what the A-380 is about to do in terms of getting the thing off the ground, flight testing, endurance, standing the test of time & such, the 747 has already been there & done that.

Even though the 747 seems to now only be in service still with two American carriers today, it has done it all. Also, an American carrier still has yet to come forward, step up to the plate & order at least one model of the A-380. Wanna bet that it would put a U.S. carrier out of business if one did order it? It's big, humungous & it's a true monster, I'll give it that.

There are probably just under 200 examples of this plane presently on order between the int'l carriers that DID order it. To break even with or even surpass the 747, this machine would have to gorilla its way up to about at least between 400 to 500 in sales because it's so big. Airbus Industrie would have to really kick hard to get enough carriers to buy this plane! Enough to really keep it in production to nearly half the amount of years that the 747 has been made.

The 747's sales record stand roughly at about 1,400 or more, not to mention the ones yet to be delivered to awaiting airlines. That's not a shabby record by no means at all. And don't forget that Boeing plans to make a few modified examples of its 747-400, called Large Cargo Freighters (LCF's for short).

This would nearly double the size of the existing -400 series aircraft. Carriers could catch wind of this and begin to inquire about possibly ordering this plane to fill their needs for a 747 LCF. Then the 747 would be off and running to fullfill a new era for air freight! So don't count the 747 out just yet. Boeing is not about to let go of the first plane ever that started the wide body era just yet!

[iamrobk]

And about the luxuries that news article mentions, I doubt any airline would put them on the plane because they could get a LOT more money from seats.

Also, they say 7E7 sales have been disappointing. Hasen't Boeing sold like 2 times as many 7E7's as Airbus? IIRC Boeing only needs to sell a few more (which they will in China, if the reports are correct) to break even, while Airbus has only sold about half of what they need to break even, and I doubt they will get much more, because pretty much everyone who would want one is either broke, has expressed interest in the 7E7, or simply hasn't shown any interest at all.

[Fabb]

The Boeing 7E7 will compete with the A350, not the 380.

[Daquan13]

iamrobk,


The 7E7 sales, IMO, does not seem to be disappointing. If anything, it has just begun to get started on its road to success.
For instance, Continental, the very fisrt U.S. carrier to buy the 7E7, has just signed on the dotted line for 10 of them.

True, those extra "bells & whistles" that are availible for the A380
could drive the price of the craft to truly astronomical proportions -
levels that most carriers couldn't even touch!

Aside from the fact that the plane itself is already at a very hefty price tag, that alone could drive many carriers away & start them wondering whether they should invest in the 7E7 Dreamliner instead for almost a fraction of the cost that they would otherwise pay for the A-380.

Boeing had felt & decided that instead of trying to outdo or match AI's A-380 with a much bigger derivative of the 747, that they could make a killing with the much smaller more ecconomical cost-saving 767-sized 7E7.

And yes, they ARE waiting for one or more Chinese airlines to come forward & order the 7E7, which would put the plane where they are hoping it will be. To be in the postition that would get them out of the financially slumping sales that they are suffering and get them back on track, back in the race of being truly competative with Airbus Industrie again.

Fabb,

You're right!

The 7E7's direct rival WILL be the A-350. The A-380's main purpose & goal is to try to embarrass the 747 - to try to cash in on the popular plane's long & illustrious career & success and take over as the true monster of the skies.

But this newer plane (A-350), in a way, will have suffered still because by the time the craft is made, flown for the very first time, ordered by any of the airlines, delivered to its customers & put into revenue service, the 7E7 will already be flying and well into service with some of its customers.

Which means that it will already be making money for Boeing & the airlines using it. I think Airbus Industrie just doesn't want to be outdone.

[Fabb]

Cliff Hangar

With new planes and a little help from their friendly national governments, Boeing and Airbus battle it out for dominion over the skies

By SALLY B. DONNELLY | CHICAGO
TIME Magazine

Boeing CEO Harry Stonecipher spent last Christmas at his St. Petersburg, Florida, home. He wasn't happy about that. Angered because carriers like AirAsia and Air Berlin were buying rival Airbus planes, all too aware that the European manufacturer would soon be rolling out its 555-seat, double-decker A380 jumbo liner — and was also developing a smaller plane, the A350, to compete with his new baby, the Boeing 737 — Stonecipher had told his salespeople he would travel anywhere in the world, even on Christmas Day, if he was needed to close a deal.

No one called. "That troubled me. The whole idea is that I will go anywhere for them," he says.

It's a safe bet, too, that Stonecipher won't be jetting to Toulouse this week to join four European leaders, over a dozen airline CEOs, scores of journalists and more than 5,000 invited guests at Airbus headquarters, where his rival, Airbus CEO Noël Forgeard, is officially unveiling the mammoth A380, which cost $12 billion to launch. The A380 is a powerful symbol of the coming-of-age of the 35-year-old Airbus, and underscores the fact that the world's two major commercial airplanemakers — Airbus and Boeing — are at each other's throats as never before. Although the U.S. government and the European Union reached a temporary deal last week to avoid a battle about government subsidies in the World Trade Organization, the two sides were sniping at each other again less than 24 hours later, when Forgeard said aircraft "launch aid" — no-risk loans from European governments — wasn't "part of the past." A spokesman for the U.S. trade representative fired back: "The U.S. will not agree to permit new aircraft subsidies that are illegal under WTO rules. That certainly covers launch aid." Competition in the commercial airplane market — expected to be worth $2 trillion over the next 20 years — is to be expected, but this feud has bigger implications. At its core, it is a debate about the relationship between the state and private enterprise — specifically, what sort of helping hand a country can legally give its friendly local planemaker. But because of the big money involved and the critical role that aircraft play in national security, the spat threatens already tense U.S.-E.U. relations, and could hurt the huge aerospace industries — and their hundreds of thousands of employees — on either side of the Atlantic.

It's been a high-flying journey for Airbus, a company founded in 1970 as a government-backed consortium to forge a European answer to America's hegemony in civil aviation. Although the firm struggled during its first decade, funding from France, Germany, Spain and Britain helped keep it afloat — and still provides assistance today, though the company is flourishing. Airbus, which is owned by the Franco-German-based conglomerate European Aeronautic Defense & Space Co. and British-based BAE Systems, just finished an impressive second straight year of selling more planes than Boeing.

The A380 is Airbus' prized 21st century showpiece. The plane, which has a list price of $285 million — though airlines rarely pay the published rate — has been ordered by major airlines around the world, including Air France, Emirates, Lufthansa, Qantas and Virgin. "The A380 is the most significant event in aviation in 40 years — since the introduction of the Boeing 747," says Stephen Forshaw, an executive at Singapore Airlines, which will be the first airline to fly the aircraft in the spring of 2006.

For Chicago-based Boeing, which has been designing planes since World War I, such songs of praise for Airbus have got to hurt. But the paeans to the A380 are also proof that Airbus can stand on its own financially. Boeing has seen its market share fall from 67% in 1999 to 47% in 2004. Much of that is due, says Boeing, to Airbus' unfair advantages — no- or low-risk loans that, Boeing claims, Airbus has received from European governments to the tune of some $15 billion. It wants the loans to stop. "Airbus is all grown up," says Boeing's Stonecipher. "It is selling more planes than Boeing and says it is making better margins. This is about drawing a bright line: no more launch aid."

But what, exactly, constitutes state aid to private industry? In fiscal 2003 alone, the E.U. estimates, total U.S. government support for Boeing R. and D. was $2.74 billion, representing 11.9% of its revenues.

(Of course, Airbus' majority stakeholders, EADS and BAE Systems, both have significant military businesses, too.) The Europeans thus don't see subsidies going to zero. Says Forgeard: "We want a level playing field with a level of support that is acceptable to both sides."

The debate over subsidies is especially heated because the aircraft business is so precarious. Launch costs for a new aircraft can be enormous, with little guarantee that the market will reward innovation. In December 2003, Boeing announced it would build the twin- engine, highly efficient 7E7 — its first new airplane in a decade and its designated aircraft of the future. In contrast to the A380, which is designed to fly lots of people to big hub airports, the smaller (around 220 passengers) 7E7 aims to fly longer distances and to more cities. The company estimates its launch costs at a massive $9 billion.

But while Boeing predicted it would have 200 orders for the $120 million 7E7 by the end of last year, only a few airlines have actually ordered one, including an obscure Italian carrier called Blue Panorama and Britain's First Choice Airlines. Explains a Boeing spokesman: "It is simply a matter of time before we get there." The company notes that Boeing's commercial airplane unit is still profitable.

Airbus places heavy bets, too. Late last year the company announced it would launch a new plane — the A350, similar to the 7E7. Boeing's argument is that Airbus can make such snap choices because it never faces the kind of market risks that Boeing does. Richard Aboulafia, an aerospace analyst at Virginia-based Teal Group, agrees: "Airbus has the freedom to develop new products whenever it wants, or to discount prices whenever it wants, because its shareholders won't abandon it. Boeing, a fully floated company, has no such luxury."

Boeing is trying to spin the A350 as a sign of lost confidence in the A380. Sniffs Stonecipher: "The A380 is a great engineering success — but so was the Concorde. The A380 could be a market disaster." John Leahy, Airbus' American-born top salesman, dismisses that prospect, saying airlines want both options — the A380 and the A350.

No matter who's right, Boeing can't afford to make the wrong call. Ulrich Horstmann, an aerospace analyst for Bayerische Landesbank in Munich, says: "If Boeing doesn't make the 7E7 a success, it has no more trumps in its hand." Don't think Stonecipher isn't aware of that. He has overseen a revamping of Boeing's commercial airplane unit and recently approved the firing of the head of the firm's sales team. He admits that Boeing has been arrogant in the past, but says he sees that dangerous overconfidence among the Airbus troops. "I've been listening to the Airbus guys ... Sounds a lot like Boeing a few years ago. Arrogance is just awful. It will kill you," says Stonecipher. So he is hopeful, if not happy. And yes, he has some travel plans in the very near future.

[iamrobk]

iamrobk,


The 7E7 sales, IMO, does not seem to be disappointing. If anything, it has just begun to get started on its road to success.
For instance, Continental, the very fisrt U.S. carrier to buy the 7E7, has just signed on the dotted line for 10 of them.

True, those extra "bells & whistles" that are availible for the A380
could drive the price of the craft to truly astronomical proportions -
levels that most carriers couldn't even touch!

Aside from the fact that the plane itself is already at a very hefty price tag, that alone could drive many carriers away & start them wondering whether they should invest in the 7E7 Dreamliner instead for almost a fraction of the cost that they would otherwise pay for the A-380.

Boeing had felt & decided that instead of trying to outdo or match AI's A-380 with a much bigger derivative of the 747, that they could make a killing with the much smaller more ecconomical cost-saving 767-sized 7E7.

And yes, they ARE waiting for one or more Chinese airlines to come forward & order the 7E7, which would put the plane where they are hoping it will be. To be in the postition that would get them out of the financially slumping sales that they are suffering and get them back on track, back in the race of being truly competative with Airbus Industrie again.

I think you read my post wrong. I said (or was trying to say) that the 7E7's sales were not disappointing, and that if any planes sales were, it would be the A380.

[Daquan13]

No, I did not.

You said (Quote) "Also, they say that the 7E7 sales is disappointing." (End quote).

I was not disagreeing with you. Rather I WAS agreeing with you.

I've been keeping up with this plane, especially through news that's been e-mailed to me from Boeing.

Incidently, Boeing plans to complete (end) production of another plane, the 717.

[The Agonist]

I hope I get to fly in an A380...


A Plane as Big as the Globe
The A380, the largest airliner ever built, will be unveiled by Airbus on Tuesday. It's the sum of a worldwide ballet of parts manufacturers.


By Peter Pae, Times Staff Writer


TOULOUSE, France — To build the world's biggest passenger plane, Airbus first constructed the world's largest wing and fuselage factories. It set up a paint shop big enough to house a football stadium, bought the world's biggest automated riveting machine and commissioned a 505-foot-long transport ship.

On Tuesday at Airbus headquarters here, the public will get its first look at what many consider an engineering marvel: the A380, the heaviest and costliest commercial passenger aircraft ever built. In a lavish ceremony, a 10-story-high curtain will part to reveal the first completed "super-jumbo" plane before some 5,000 guests, including British Prime Minister Tony Blair and French President Jacques Chirac.

The A380 will carry as many as 800 passengers — more than double the capacity of a Boeing 747 — on two decks. The craft will weigh more than 1.2 million pounds fully loaded. It stretches about 260 feet wingtip to wingtip, and the tail stands seven stories high. The A380's passenger cabin is so elevated that 18 doors are equipped with emergency slides made with special friction material to slow down escaping passengers. Final work on the aircraft is done in a hangar 1,610 feet long, and workers must take elevators to reach their spots in the assembly line along a five-story-high scaffolding.

"Everything about this plane is mind-boggling," said Richard Aboulafia, an aviation analyst for research firm Teal Group.

For 35 years, Boeing Co.'s 747 set the standard for jumbo commercial aircraft. European governments got into the airplane business in 1970 by teaming up to finance Airbus, which is now controlled by a Dutch aerospace company. Airbus thinks its plane will create the blueprint for the next generation of airborne giants.

"It's the plane of the future, a cruise ship in the sky," said John Leahy, Airbus' top salesman, who is credited with helping the company surpass Boeing as the world's biggest aircraft maker. The A380 "will change the way we fly, just like what the 747 did."

Eleven airlines, including Singapore, Korean Air, Lufthansa and Air France, plus cargo carriers FedEx and UPS, have ordered 149 planes at $250 million apiece. After a year of test flights, the first passenger-carrying A380 is expected to fly in spring 2006, with Los Angeles International Airport a likely destination.

In keeping with the grand scope of the A380, to get the plane built involves a global mobilization of supplies that is unequaled for an industrial project. Some 18,000 suppliers in 30 countries, including the U.S., have a hand in its construction. Thousands of A380 parts crisscross the globe daily en route to factories in Europe. Plants in Britain assemble the wings, workers in Germany build the fuselage, and these major sections are then shipped to Toulouse for final assembly.

The man responsible for this $12-billion project, including the delivery of a jigsaw puzzle of parts, is Frenchman Charles Champion, 49, executive vice president for the A380. Champion, a Stanford University graduate, has no doubt that despite its size, the A380 will fly "beautifully." The plane relies more on composites, such as carbon fiber, than does the 747, to save weight while adding significantly more space.

What worries Champion and keeps him up at night are the logistics of "getting the supplies here on time." A single A380, for instance, requires 1 million aluminum fasteners.

Any kink in the intricate global delivery chain could delay the A380, and that could be financially devastating for Airbus and its suppliers.

One problem is that the A380 is pushing the envelope on the maximum size of a commercial airplane. International airport standards call for no plane to exceed 80 meters in length and width. The A380 has a wingspan of 79.8 meters. The new plane is so much larger than any other craft that most airports face the daunting prospect of making design changes to accommodate it.

Six airlines plan to put LAX on their first flight routes for the A380. Carriers are worried that LAX may not have enough gates for the plane, although airport officials said they were committed to having at least two A380 gates next year. At the moment, if two A380s tried to park side by side at existing LAX gates, their wings would touch. San Francisco International Airport has redesigned an existing terminal to accommodate the A380s, hoping to lure flights away from LAX.

If major airports are slow to support the new plane, airlines may hesitate to buy more A380s. Airbus says it needs to sell 250 planes to break even; some analysts believe the company must sell 325 to cover its investment.

Already, though, the economic effect of the plane is widespread. More than 100,000 people in the U.S. alone are involved in getting the A380 airborne.

At Monogram Systems in Carson, engineers are refining the plumbing for the biggest waste and water system ever built for an aircraft. In Irvine, Thales Inc. has built the world's largest in-flight entertainment test laboratory, where 600 seat-back video monitors are left on for days to see how such a massive system would perform if that many A380 passengers decided to watch movies at the same time.

But of all the components for the A380, the wings are considered the most crucial, and they illustrate the great lengths to which Airbus has gone to spread out work on the project.

In western Australia, near Perth, miners dig up a reddish, clay-like material containing bauxite, the principal ore of aluminum, which makes up the basic structure of the A380. Bauxite is ground down and mixed with caustic soda and lime, then heated to a granulated state. It's shipped to a smelting plant in Texas, where it is poured into large pots and shocked with electricity to turn it into hard aluminum ingots the size of mattresses.

The ingots are shipped to Alcoa Inc.'s Davenport, Iowa, plant, the world's largest aluminum mill. Stretching 1.2 miles along the Mississippi River, the facility produces aluminum sheets and plates used in bicycles, cars, trucks, planes and rockets. It's the only mill that can fabricate aluminum pieces large enough for the A380.

The ingots are put through a machine with rollers that apply 16 million pounds of pressure. In 10 minutes the ingots are reduced in thickness from 20 inches to barely half an inch. Another machine pulls and stretches them to create 6-ton aluminum plates 115 feet long.

Sandy Madison, a 25-year plant veteran, is the floor manager in Davenport. The wing section is so long that Madison shut down an adjacent production line to clear room for a crane to lift and turn the aluminum piece and put it on a truck for shipping.

"Just the sheer size is the issue for us," said Madison, who has also worked on wings for the Boeing 747, which are about 30% smaller. "It's the largest piece we do here, so it needs some special attention."

These aluminum wing pieces are so long that Airbus had to design a single-bed truck trailer that can extend out, like a telescope, to carry the metal plates across the Midwest to Baltimore, from where they are shipped to Broughton in North Wales.

Broughton is home to the world's largest wing assembly plant, with enough room to fit 12 soccer fields.

Lennie Cimeli, head of A380 wing skin manufacturing, climbed up on one of the pieces. "This is my baby," he said, pointing at what appeared to be a shiny aluminum floor. A 29-year Airbus veteran, Cimeli has been involved in virtually every new aircraft built by the company. But the A380 will be special, he said. "I would love to see this big baby fly."

Aluminum plates arrive at the Broughton factory in the basic shape of a wing. The pieces are too big to stand up, so they are laid on the plant floor. Then a milling machine on rails moves back and forth over them to shave off most of the aluminum, turning a 6-ton plate into a shiny 1-ton sheet.

The wing skins are treated in a chemical bath. Then a three-story-high automated robotic riveting machine, the first of its kind, attaches the skins to a row of ribs made of composites and metals. The machine uses more than 750,000 fasteners to attach the skins; any difficult-to-reach spots are riveted by hand.

Afterward, workers install the wing innards, including electrical wiring, hydraulic and fuel systems and an air pump the size of a compact car. The wing is so thick that the Houston Rockets' 7-foot-6 basketball center Yao Ming could stand comfortably inside its broadest point.

To move each 120-foot-long wing piece to Toulouse, along with fuselage pieces from Germany, Airbus had to create a shipping system.

A 96-wheel trailer carries the wing piece a mile down the road, where it is loaded onto a custom-built river craft. The craft carries one wing piece and travels 16 miles downriver to the port at Mostyn. "We have to catch a good tide here" to clear the low bridges, said Ken Roberts, an Airbus manager in charge of transporting the wing. "It can be challenging sometimes."

At the port, the parts are moved onto a Chinese-built cargo ship to be transported to France. The cargo ship, a derivative of a car carrier built for Airbus, is marked with large letters saying "A380 Onboard."

After the parts are unloaded at a port north of Bordeaux, they go on a barge that makes its way 60 miles up the Garonne River. The barge must pass under the historic stone Pont de Pierre, a bridge near Bordeaux. The barge has a window of only about three hours a day when the tide will allow it to clear the bridge without damaging it or the wings.

"We just have to live with that," said Champion, the Airbus project chief. This elaborate transportation system is still more efficient and less costly than other methods Airbus considered, he said.

At one point, the company had contemplated building massive, zeppelin-like airships to fly the biggest pieces to Toulouse. But that would have risked bad weather, the possibility of dropping the cargo and other uncertainties.

At the small river port village of Langon, the wings and fuselage are separately loaded onto tractor-trailers, which make the final leg of the journey through 150 miles of French countryside, mostly two-lane roads lined with vineyards and geese farms, to landlocked Toulouse.

The convoy — three tractor-trailers carrying two wing sections and a fuselage — makes the trek overnight, when the French police close down intersecting roads.

Airbus paid to expand or strengthen portions of the roadways and built bypasses around villages where old roads were too small. It also built four massive resting areas for the convoy, equipped with stadium lights that illuminate nearby farms and villages that date back to the Middle Ages.

After three days, the truck convoy reaches the outskirts of Toulouse, where a large sign marks the "end of a grand trip" before entering the massive assembly line.

At the moment, Airbus has heard little criticism from the villages, where residents have been lining the roads with their lawn chairs to marvel at the twice-a-month nighttime convoy traveling barely 10 miles an hour.

If the airplane is a success, residents may get less sleep. When Airbus ramps up to full production, the parade of giant airplane parts coming through the towns would become a weekly affair.

[R@ptor]

Here's a nice diagram which compares the sizes of the A380 and the B747-400

http://www.spiegel.de/img/0,1020,426397,00.jpg

[The Agonist]

So will the a380 carry 555 or 800 passengers? I see both figures batted around.

[iamrobk]

Wow. How many airports worldwide will be able to use this thing. Last count I heard was about 8 or 9.

[Swede]

^^555 is the number that's actually going to be used and will be certified by the FAA/JAA. 800 is if the whole plane were coach.

[vincent]

holy sh@t!! i didn't know the 380 wing span is THAT much longer than 747.


Imperial Teen, the 800 seats figure (around 520 for 747) is when 380 are configured for economy class-only. 555 (around 395 for 747) seats is for 3 classes configuration.

[pdxstreetcar]

Just a heads up...

There will be a segment about the A380 plane on NBC Nightly news tomorrow (Tuesday, Jan 18). I think it usually comes on at 6:30pm

[Daquan13]

I think so, usually following the local network news!

[philip]

http://www.pacmin.com/news/images/A380.jpg

[philip]

Airbus A380, Boeing 7E7, both are new and what future lies ahead of them remains to be seen.

But on the excitement scale, I would say A380 is WAY more exciting than 7E7. Unless everyone is a geek, most people wouldn't even be able to tell a 7E7 when they see one, but they sure will say "WOW" and stare at A380 for at least 10 minutes because it obviously has two levels, everyone can see that. And riding in it will be exciting, like riding a double-decker bus.

When Boeing's 747-400 was first introduced, not only people are skeptical about its flying ability, not many airliners bought the jets right away either. These things take time, and so is the A380.

By the way, according to offical news release, the break-even point for Airbus A380 is about 280, not 400-500 units, and Airbus has secured about half of it (appx. 140) the first year even before the first plane takes off. I'd say that's not too bad.

[Coyett]

" Also, an American carrier still has yet to come forward, step up to the plate & order at least one model of the A-380. Wanna bet that it would put a U.S. carrier out of business if one did order it? It's big, humungous & it's a true monster, I'll give it that."

Both UPS and Fed Ex have ordered the A380. Considering that they each have a fleet in excess of 600 aircraft, I would say they are major airlines. The A380 will be the long haul freighter of choice. I don't think it will make a difference whether US passenger airlines purchase the plane .... the target market is Asia/ Middle East/Europe and cargo. Boeing's claim that the importance of hubs will decline putting the A380 at a disadvantage, doesn't ring true with me. It would seem obvious that the A380 is perfectly suited for both high volume, long distance routes, and as a primary aircraft for conjested international gateways.

[Fabb]

January 18, 2005 - 6:16PM


Passengers flying the so-called Kangaroo route between Sydney and London will be the first to experience the new super jumbo A380 jet, Singapore Airlines says.

The aircraft will be operated by Singapore Airlines from mid next year when the airline becomes the first carrier in the world to fly the double decker long haul planes.

The Airbus A380 aircraft was being launched in Toulouse, France, in front of world leaders and global aviation executives, including Qantas Airways Ltd chief executive Geoff Dixon.

Singapore Airlines has ordered 10 of the aircraft, which cost about $US260 million each, while Qantas wants 12.

Singapore Airlines confirmed it will first use the aircraft on the Kangaroo route between London, Singapore and Sydney.

It hopes to eventually use the planes on routes from Australia to the US, if talks between the Australian and Singaporean governments next month about opening up Australian skies to the carrier are successfully concluded.

Advertisement
Advertisement"Singapore Airlines is committed to the Australian market and we are delighted to be the first Airline to fly the A380 here, offering our Australian customers the first opportunity to experience a new era in flying," the airline's south west Pacific communications manager Samantha Stewart said.

The planes, which measure the length of eight public transport buses and have a wingspan of nearly 80 metres, are designed to carry 555 passengers but Singapore Airlines will offer passengers 500 seats in three classes.

Sydney Airport is planning to spend around $100 million upgrading the airport next year to make it A380 ready.

London's Heathrow has already budgeted STG450 million ($A1.11 billion) to prepare the airport for the planes.

The size of the jets requires wider than usual taxiways and double decker loading ramps.

© 2005 AAP

[tonyo]

http://sg.news.yahoo.com/050118/1/3pxh8.html