CHICAGO | 108 North State (Block 37)

[SamInTheLoop]

....is the CBS (Morningstar) Building topped out ? ...there are A/C units on one part of the roof so I am assuming so.............


yes, it's topped-out...

[VivaLFuego]

^I really hope there's some sort of misinformation in that article, otherwise its saying that the CTA and City are almost running double the budget. If so, just get the excavations done to the point where the project can be resumed if/when the need or desire ever arises again, but otherwise just leave it since it wont be used anytime soon anyway.

[nomarandlee]

:previous:

I was thinking the same thing. Set up the foundations and leave the cosmetics for later when the actual purpose for the station can be implemented.

[Chicago3rd]

^I really hope there's some sort of misinformation in that article, otherwise its saying that the CTA and City are almost running double the budget. If so, just get the excavations done to the point where the project can be resumed if/when the need or desire ever arises again, but otherwise just leave it since it wont be used anytime soon anyway.


About 2 weeks ago I was in the McDonalds across the street and was talking to a concrete layer and she said that the tunnel had been completed and excavated. They were working that evening on the connection part right under Dearborn (the connectors). She said the portion under the building had been created already. So I think, at least according to her (and I may have misunderstood) the CTA part is further along than I had thought. I thought she was working on the 108 and she said no that they are only working on the CTA part.

IT IS TIME TO FIRE all the budgeters at CTA!!!!! To be this far off is unbelievable. This project will cost close to all the public portion of Millennium Park! It better be as fantastic.

[VivaLFuego]

^My understanding is that by doing a cut-and-cover for the two tunnel connections, instead of mining them (as was the original intention) and simply excavating the portion for the station, they encountered alot of unexpected utility lines that had to be protected and/or moved. I think part of the justification for the methodology switch (aside from it being the only method that was bid on by a contractor) was that it would have been very pioneering work to mine without damaging the foundations of the Reliance and Delaware buildings which are right next to the tunnel connections. Someone more involved in the actual engineering of the project could obviously shed some more technical detail on this, but it was a real beast from an engineering standpoint (even the apparently low estimates were $100 million for a 1block subway!) given its environment.

[ardecila]

There's always the possibility that CTA deliberately low-balled their costs so as to get the tunnel construction started when they had the chance.

I really hope these sorts of problems don't dog the subway portion of the Circle Line.

[pilsenarch]

I think you all might be interested in a few design development images that were produced by Mills/MCL and later just Mills beginning with the drawings used to win the project initally (including that large civic space). The drawings continue through the end of the masterplan development, including the introduction of CBS and the CTA station (which occurred rather late in the development process, believe it or not), and basically reflect what is getting built today (with the most notable exception of the ever-shrinking 'civic'/atrium space)...



The problem is I am not familiar with how one goes about posting images...can someone help me out?

[ambient]

Here are some new images that I shot yesterday... The reflective glass is a real trip when you look at this site from several floors up...

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1162/1366784793_7250838565_b.jpg

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1208/1367684770_5a605a68bd_b.jpg

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1267/1366791025_3d141af7a1_b.jpg

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1361/1367688578_a1defeef1f_b.jpg

[i_am_hydrogen]

^Great update. Is that core for the condo tower? Where will the hotel be located? Or is that no longer part of the plan?

[sentinel]

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1361/1367688578_a1defeef1f_b.jpg
WOW that is trippy, at first I didn't even see the CBS/Morningstar building! And it looks as though you can see right thru the building and the effect makes it look like MARSHALL FIELD'S in the background just continues even though it's a reflection. Weird!

[10023]

Is there still going to be a public outdoor area on the roof of this thing? That would be the one silver lining to the building being so short, and it would be a huge waste to see a rooftop with a surface area like this underutilized right in the middle of the Loop. Plus, it's a big thing for Daley.

I think an outdoor restaurant / bar would be awesome. Maybe a mini golf course too :)

[aluminum]

Can anyone give me the emporis listing of this project ?

[austin_bound009]

The problem is I am not familiar with how one goes about posting images...can someone help me out?

If someone hasn't already helped you with this, I'll tell ya!
First the pictures should be on your computers hard drive somewhere.[easier this way]
Then use something like Photobucket or Flickr to upload them to an online album.
Then they give you an image code. Use that to add pics to a forum. It should say something like [IMG]blahblahblah[IMG]. I think.
Well thats how I add pics. Hope it helped.

[austin_bound009]

sorry. double post.

[pilsenarch]

yes, I have instructions....I will have the images up by the middle of next week

thanks!

[a chicago bearcat]

that is how a glass facade should be executed,
this boom was proving so poor at quality curtian walls
other than 600 fairbanks

yeah, the only giveaways that the building wasn't completely transparent, was MoMo and the imitation reliance in almost the exact same location

[dvidler]

From the Tribune Theater Loop Blog

"Fascination number four is new theaters. There have been rumors of a new theater or two in the Block 37 space, which would make excellent sense, especially if they could land opposite the Oriental Theater. But when I called the developers, I was told they had nothing to say. If we are going to get more Loop venues—and we need them—we’ll likely hear about them this fall."

Now, nothing to say could be taken as nothing there so nothing to say or no comment as in it is in discussions therefore we cannot comment on it.

Daley has commented before that there is a need for more live theaters and it would make perfect sense for it to be located there. So we shall see

[forumly_chgoman]

From the Tribune Theater Loop Blog

"Fascination number four is new theaters. There have been rumors of a new theater or two in the Block 37 space, which would make excellent sense, especially if they could land opposite the Oriental Theater. But when I called the developers, I was told they had nothing to say. If we are going to get more Loop venues—and we need them—we’ll likely hear about them this fall."

Now, nothing to say could be taken as nothing there so nothing to say or no comment as in it is in discussions therefore we cannot comment on it.

Daley has commented before that there is a need for more live theaters and it would make perfect sense for it to be located there. So we shall see
Another live theatre there would be awesome

[nomarandlee]

From the Tribune Theater Loop Blog

"Fascination number four is new theaters. There have been rumors of a new theater or two in the Block 37 space, which would make excellent sense, especially if they could land opposite the Oriental Theater. But when I called the developers, I was told they had nothing to say. If we are going to get more Loop venues—and we need them—we’ll likely hear about them this fall."

Now, nothing to say could be taken as nothing there so nothing to say or no comment as in it is in discussions therefore we cannot comment on it.

Daley has commented before that there is a need for more live theaters and it would make perfect sense for it to be located there. So we shall see


I think a no comment is actually pretty good. If the space was accounted for or if it was decided that it wasn't in the cards to have a theater then I think they would just say so as there really wouldn't be any obvious reason not to. If they are in negotiations with one of a few possibilities or seeing if there can be a fit then a non committal answer is what I would expect. The worst for them would be for them to say that a theater is coming and for it to fall through and the project look more inept and missed opportunity that some already accuse it.

I can't remember who in particular or what thread but I thought someone in the last few months said they had a city source who hinted there was likely to be a new theatre coming into the works in the district?

[ardecila]

A theatre in Block 37 would be great. But you have to plan for a theater space during construction, and they clearly haven't done that. A theater space is usually a large, interior open space, 4-5 stories in height. There aren't any holes in the floorplates, except for the tiny atrium.

Adding a theater would require a costly renovation of the space, involving the shifting of columns and the removal of floor trusses, which in turn requires the surrounding trusses to be reinforced. I don't think Freed would undertake such a costly procedure so soon after construction. They also probably aren't talking with potential theater operators, since the need for renovation would be a huge turnoff.

Basically, if there is a new theater coming to the area, I think it would have to be in either theWit hotel, or it would replace one of the lowrises further down State, like Old Navy, H&M, or Nordstrom Rack.

If Block 37 is getting a theater, however, then it will likely be very small compared to Goodman, Chicago, Palace, Oriental, or LaSalle/Shubert.

[VivaLFuego]

A couple of small theatre spaces could be an excellent addition to B37, and definitely feasible given the relatively high ceiling heights....for those of us who really have no interest in ritzy musical trash productions, a variety of more intimate stages (e.g. an in-the-round with capacity ~200-300) would be a welcome addition to the loop theatre scene.

That said, I'd love to see that hideous Old Navy imploded, then the rubble set ablaze.....then replaced with the building that used to be on the site (Columbus Memorial, iirc). Except maybe with another grand theatre inside :)

http://www.patsabin.com/illinois/columbus.jpg (not my pic, found via google)

[Chicago2020]

Will Block 37 have a green roof?????

[harryc]

.w.t.

[aluminum]

Can anyone give me the emporis listing of this project ?

[Knightwing]

Can anyone give me the emporis listing of this project ?

Here you go..

http://www.emporis.com/en/wm/bu/?id=103024

[aluminum]

^^ It says "never built" in Status !!

[Alliance]

^^ It says "never built" in Status !!

:haha: Must be a bad sign for the residential towers.

[spyguy]

http://www.seaoi.org/events.htm

Block 37

The October meeting will feature a discussion of the Block 37 development by Thornton Tomasetti Engineers. The project includes an office tower at the southwest corner of the site and a mixed use commercial and retail building at the remainder of the site. Most notably, the deep basement excavation uses top down construction technology to minimize potential movement of the foundation walls during the excavation. The excavation will ultimately allow the red and blue CTA subway lines to be connected with a station below the Block 37 site. Passengers will be able to board express trains to O'Hare and have their baggage checked at the CTA station.

The discussion will include various aspects of the deep excavation as well as an overview of the project as a whole. Please join us for this exciting presentation of a very unique project in the heart of the Loop.

Date: 10.02.07
Location Cliff Dwellers
200 S. Michigan
Chicago, IL

Cocktails: 5:15pm
Dinner: 6:00pm
Program: 7:00pm

RSVP: Contact Donna Childs at 312.649.4600 x200 or office@seaoi.org by Sept 28th

[ambient]

New photos shot during yesterday's Cubs rally at Daley Plaza... There are several detail shots here, but just so you know, these photos are all shot from the west looking east. I love how the CBS 2 news van has already claimed a parking space in front of the location of the soon-to-be street level studio... Enjoy.

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1319/1473424830_4787288b92_b.jpg

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1131/1472573549_2eec2ae9d8_b.jpg

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1429/1473426682_1835df1053_b.jpg

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1040/1472575787_4bf6edc84b_b.jpg

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1118/1472577275_3f0b00b858_b.jpg

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1367/1473430652_4441ca57e0_b.jpg

[harryc]

From a lesser angle

http://lh3.google.com/harry.r.carmichael/RwG3dz6-jrI/AAAAAAAAJfU/UikjJcZSN5E/P1040942.JPG?imgmax=800

http://lh3.google.com/harry.r.carmichael/RwG3fz6-jsI/AAAAAAAAJfY/anvPcs8HRpo/P1040945.JPG?imgmax=640

http://lh3.google.com/harry.r.carmichael/RwG3pz6-juI/AAAAAAAAJZ0/VmeyKnxSrsA/2007_10_01.jpg?imgmax=912

[forumly_chgoman]

Has there been any news concerning the condo and apt towers that I believeare still part of block 37???

If i remember I think they were in the 30+ story range or so

[tintinex]

Has there been any news concerning the condo and apt towers that I believeare still part of block 37???

If i remember I think they were in the 30+ story range or so

:previous: I bet you there'll be more information about these towers from the meeting tonight posted by spyguy above the pics.

[i_am_hydrogen]

Images of the CBS2 studio from http://www.gpchicago.com
http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u291/kdickert/CBS21.jpg

http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u291/kdickert/CBS2.jpg

[10023]

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1319/1473424830_4787288b92_b.jpg


This looks quite disappointing. Block 37 does nothing to create a 4th wall for the Daley Plaza "room". The tower itself is anemic and the little 4 story shopping podium is scaled like a typical suburban lifestyle center.

[firstcranialnerve]

It sounds like, from the post about the meeting above, there will be no residential or hotel tower. Is that a possibility? I saw a render of a residential tower before, but I can't see any other core going up. I see something like that on the northwest side, but I thought there were to be 2 other buildings on the site. Just one now?

Anyway... fortunately there is a lot of stuff that kicks the ass of this site in Chicago. If i'm ever worth 10 billion, I guarantee to knock this piece of crap down and build a beautiful supertall on the spot. Just wait...;)

[Jaroslaw]

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1429/1473426682_1835df1053_b.jpg



That glass on the right looks great. Probably twice as expensive as the mirrors on the left...

[Nowhereman1280]

^^^ Probably not. The only reason the stuff on the right doesn't look wavy is because its clear. You can't see a wavy reflection if the glass is clear because being clear implies it doesn't reflect (much) light. If the glass on 600 Fairbanks were reflective it would look wavy as well, everyone puts way too much thought into the idea that there is glass out there that isn't wavy, lets face it, if it does exist it is extremely rare and probably rediculously expensive...

Name one reflective building that doesn't have wavy glass...

[Dan in Chicago]

Can anyone give me the emporis listing of this project ?

Knightwing, that wasn't the right link, it's an old version of Block 37. Here's a link to the current plan:

http://www.emporis.com/en/wm/cx/?id=106574

As soon as we get definite information we'll probably consolidate the hotel & condo towers. The project board on the site shows a single, L-shaped tower, but I want a second official source with a recent date on it before combining all the construction photos and technical data for both building entries.

[10023]

^^^ Probably not. The only reason the stuff on the right doesn't look wavy is because its clear. You can't see a wavy reflection if the glass is clear because being clear implies it doesn't reflect (much) light. If the glass on 600 Fairbanks were reflective it would look wavy as well, everyone puts way too much thought into the idea that there is glass out there that isn't wavy, lets face it, if it does exist it is extremely rare and probably rediculously expensive...

Name one reflective building that doesn't have wavy glass...

Bingo. The glass on the right looks just as wavy, it just doesn't have the reflectivity.

[Wild Onion Mike]

I love how Steely on another thread called some of the concrete towers in River North "Vertical Turds." I can't help feeling that 108 N. State is the glass example of a Vertical Turd. What a dissapointment. We'd be hard pressed to come up with options that would make this project even worse that it currently looks to be turning out to be.

Jaroslaw, I agree, the glass on the far right looks alright. It's too bad they didn't run more with that theme. At least that would have made it appear less of a suburban structure, or something from the sunbelt plopped down in the Loop.

Maybe I'll end up eating my words on this when it's completed, but I don't anticipate it. Trust me , I'd be happy to eat my words and have the project prove me wrong.

[dvidler]

We judge too much based on appearances from afar. The importance of this building is not how it looks 20 floors up but how it looks from ground level. I will take a great pedestrain feel to this building over height any day. Of course the ground level experience has yet to be judged but so far I like it.

[10023]

We judge too much based on appearances from afar. The importance of this building is not how it looks 20 floors up but how it looks from ground level. I will take a great pedestrain feel to this building over height any day. Of course the ground level experience has yet to be judged but so far I like it.

The pedestrian experience is the worst missed opportunity, because there's no public space whatsoever.

Some of us were hoping that this would become a space like Berlin's Sony Centre, or Rockefeller Center, or any kind of civic meeting place. There's nothing like that here, it's just a shopping mall.

[sentinel]

The pedestrian experience is the worst missed opportunity, because there's no public space whatsoever.

Some of us were hoping that this would become a space like Berlin's Sony Centre, or Rockefeller Center, or any kind of civic meeting place. There's nothing like that here, it's just a shopping mall.

I think that is what part of the intention with the new CSB2 studio was, to "try" and engage a viewer/passerby from outdoors - not sure what the actual effect will be when it is completed, but I'm fairly optimistic about this whole development - just like any project under construction: give it time, I don't want to pass judgement until it's all complete and occupied (and who knows, even when it's finished, buildings become modified after-the-fact, so if the developer realizes that the whole public/shopping/transit component isn't really working, they might sell it, re-do that portion of it, etc. Buildings are not set in stone and neither are their original purposes).

[cbotnyse]

The pedestrian experience is the worst missed opportunity, because there's no public space whatsoever.

Some of us were hoping that this would become a space like Berlin's Sony Centre, or Rockefeller Center, or any kind of civic meeting place. There's nothing like that here, it's just a shopping mall.I completely agree. I was really hoping for something along those lines too. As of now, I am very disapointed with this project, given the location.

[Alliance]

^^^ Probably not. The only reason the stuff on the right doesn't look wavy is because its clear.

:yes:

[Jaroslaw]

^^^ Probably not. The only reason the stuff on the right doesn't look wavy is because its clear. You can't see a wavy reflection if the glass is clear because being clear implies it doesn't reflect (much) light.

The point I was trying to make is that clear glass that has the same properties as tinted glass (i.e., preventing "uncontrolled solar gain") is much more expensive than tinted glass. Clear glass has only become energy-competitive for exteriors in the last few years. Pilkington's OptiWhite or OptiView is probably what they're using at CBS...

http://www.industrialnewsupdate.com/archives/2005/05/pilkingtonas_ne.php

One of the earliest new-generation "clear glass" office buildings was the Deutsche Post tower in Bonn:

http://www.pilkington.com/Applications/case+studies/landmark+buildings/deutsche+post+tower+bonn+germany.htm

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f4/Posttower_Bonn_001.jpg

Also a Norman Foster in Warsaw:

http://www.pilkington.com/Applications/case+studies/landmark+buildings/metropolitan+warsaw+project+reference.htm

http://www.fosterandpartners.com/Projects/0986/Default.aspx

There are no funhouse mirrors in the above; good clear glass is not wavy. The waviness comes from the tint layer. Thanks.

[Nowhereman1280]

There are no funhouse mirrors in the above; good clear glass is not wavy. The waviness comes from the tint layer. Thanks.

That's the point I was trying to make. The tint makes it seem wavy.

I didn't know you were referring to the thermal properties of clear glass making it more expensive, you should have said so in the first place!

[Jaroslaw]

Well, I think most of us would love to have more glass like at 600 N Fairbanks, and it was a pleasure for me to have an excuse to dig out more info on this stuff.

[VivaLFuego]

The pedestrian experience is the worst missed opportunity, because there's no public space whatsoever.

Some of us were hoping that this would become a space like Berlin's Sony Centre, or Rockefeller Center, or any kind of civic meeting place. There's nothing like that here, it's just a shopping mall.

Agreed. They had an opportunity for a striking atrium, from the subway platform 40 feet below all the up to the top level of the shopping mall (and possibly a public roof deck on top). Blah.

[IRLaw]

Agreed. They had an opportunity for a striking atrium, from the subway platform 40 feet below all the up to the top level of the shopping mall (and possibly a public roof deck on top). Blah.
It seems to me this project was pushed through too quickly just to eliminate an "infamous" block. This block had soo much potential, I can't help but be dissapointed when walking by on my way to and from work. I honestly am fond of the facade though :yes:

[10023]

I don't understand why people even care about a supertall on this site, frankly. It's not desirable enough real estate for office tenants to get a big office building, and it doesn't have a real one-of-a-kind location for residences either. What it is, is a block bounded by a major shopping street, the center of government and civic events, and a theater/entertainment district. That screams for public space.

I could map out something on the back of a napkin that would beat the pants off this development for those purposes...

[Alliance]

NO supertall here. They are needed elswhere. A signature sony center type place would have been nice. Maybe that needs to be the Millennium Park of the Northside.

[10023]

NO supertall here. They are needed elswhere. A signature sony center type place would have been nice. Maybe that needs to be the Millennium Park of the Northside.

Is that whole area around the Rock 'N Roll McDonald's still (basically) an empty lot? Meaning, if you tore down an area of 2-4 city blocks, would anything worth saving be lost? That area is suited to something and, I think, at least one of those blocks should just be bought by the city and left open space like a Union Square type space. Chicago doesn't have any of those, really. Smart money says a one square block plaza / park in the middle of River North would be surrounded by high rises in about 3 years.

[aaronrosen26]

Is that whole area around the Rock 'N Roll McDonald's still (basically) an empty lot? Meaning, if you tore down an area of 2-4 city blocks, would anything worth saving be lost? That area is suited to something and, I think, at least one of those blocks should just be bought by the city and left open space like a Union Square type space. Chicago doesn't have any of those, really. Smart money says a one square block plaza / park in the middle of River North would be surrounded by high rises in about 3 years.

Just don't touch my Portillo's, bub.

CBS and Morningstar notwithstanding, the overall character of the Block 37 development seems to want to import (in slightly less gaudy detail) the amenities of that River North obnoxio-district™ to the Loop. I may be wrong, but that's my impression. Heck, if CBS puts out a giant screen and Morningstar flashes quotes, we could have our very own Times Square in the center of the city. Shoot me now.

[Eventually...Chicago]

Just don't touch my Portillo's, bub.

CBS and Morningstar notwithstanding, the overall character of the Block 37 development seems to want to import (in slightly less gaudy detail) the amenities of that River North obnoxio-district™ to the Loop. I may be wrong, but that's my impression. Heck, if CBS puts out a giant screen and Morningstar flashes quotes, we could have our very own Times Square in the center of the city. Shoot me now.

I'm with aaron, doing anything to the portillo's would cause me to enter into a state of panic. I would hold hotdog's hostage all over the city! I would come armed with ketchup

I was curious about the ticker in times square. Does anyone actually look at it for information or is just there to be like "hey, there is a stock market here"?

[Alliance]

What was the Garofalo propsal for this site?

[Tom Servo]

http://a189.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/18/l_6bdaa3dde25e8659745ee6b1257207d4.jpg
http://a574.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/20/l_77e86a5255c7fde891dd6faf25970615.jpg
these are from their portfolio
i've seen the full size plans and some renderings. it was a pretty SICK design concept and plan

but again. things like this are too progressive for this POmO, adrian smith kind of city.

EDIT* i do like the CBS/Morningstar building a lot actually. i just really hate the other SCB crap that's getting built over this amazing design. yawn, i sometimes need to remember what city we live in.

[CHAPINM1]

[quote=AdrianXSands;3095875]http://a189.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/18/l_6bdaa3dde25e8659745ee6b1257207d4.jpg
http://a574.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/20/l_77e86a5255c7fde891dd6faf25970615.jpg

YUCK!!! One gets a headache just looking at that. Thank God that was never built!

Rather something average is getting built there as opposed to something over the top ugly.

I will say, however; this site had a lot more potential to have had something a lot better built there than what currently is. For the supposedly magnificant site that it is, it's a damn shame that there wasn't a developer worth having that would have actually put at least a little more effort into this site.

[Tom Servo]

YUCK!!! One gets a headache just looking at that. Thank God that was never built!

Rather something average is getting built there as opposed to something over the top ugly.

I will say, however; this site had a lot more potential to have had something a lot better built there than what currently is. For the supposedly magnificant site that it is, it's a damn shame that there wasn't a developer worth having that would have actually put at least a little more effort into this site.

please... :irked:

[forumly_chgoman]

Just don't touch my Portillo's, bub.



IF that is your idea of a good hotdog...you really gotta get out more often...please it is the disneyland of hotdogs

[jjk1103]

...try the hot dog carts outside the Field Museum ...........or try the hot dog stand across the street from the 600 Fairbanks building....Ok, back to the appropriate topic.....:haha:

[nomarandlee]

Is that whole area around the Rock 'N Roll McDonald's still (basically) an empty lot? Meaning, if you tore down an area of 2-4 city blocks, would anything worth saving be lost? That area is suited to something and, I think, at least one of those blocks should just be bought by the city and left open space like a Union Square type space. Chicago doesn't have any of those, really. Smart money says a one square block plaza / park in the middle of River North would be surrounded by high rises in about 3 years.


There isn't much worth saving with all the Route 66 motels and junk single level theme restaurants. The city is already planning a park where the Post Office is kitty corner from the McDonalds. I think it was posted on the general developments thread a few pages back. It does kind of remind a bit of a smaller Union Square which the city and that neighborhood could definitely use.

I don't know if it will be during this boom or the next but I think much of that area will be scrapped and high rises and retail will be built around the park as a center piece I hope.

The only problem for the area I see is that the McDonalds there is huge and obviously not pedestrian friendly and with it being new I don't know if I see it going away anytime soon. Yea, its nice and all to have the "flagship" McDonalds in the world and all but being an impetus to a potentially dense vibrant part of downtown a differant location would have been welcome.

Sorry for getting OT.....

[10023]

I'm with aaron, doing anything to the portillo's would cause me to enter into a state of panic. I would hold hotdog's hostage all over the city! I would come armed with ketchup

Eh, Portillo's is a chain anyway. They'd re-open after construction. Maybe this time without a drive through. Plus there are better hotdogs and beefs in Chicago. Go to Al's #1 next time you're in that neighborhood.

I think that Garofalo one looks better simply because it looks like there's an outdoor atrium with direct street access. If not, then it's no good either.

I work across the street from Rockefeller Center and I don't see why something like this wasn't done. Small towers ringing the site, with open arcades accessing a central square from the west (Daley Plaza), east (State Street) and north (Theater District). A large tower could be built mid-block on the south side of the site. The ground floors of buildings ringing the site should have stuff like restaurants, with outdoor seating on the plaza. Maybe one of them, on the State street side, would be home to a theater, etc on the lower above ground levels. The bulk of shopping could go in an underground arcade that connected to Marshall Field's across the street. Below shopping, the transit center.

I think it's a shame that American cities have so few working pedestrian zones, and little mid-block squares and arcades leading to them would provide some of this in a busy part of town. Total missed opportunity here.

[Nowhereman1280]

If you like pedestrian arcades, the Trump Tower is providing us with a pretty good one! I really Like that about Trump Tower, its going to have a nice riverwalk with lots of retail, and hopefully help connect the Mag. Mile shopping with State Street Shopping.

[pilsenarch]

I have been hesitating to post here, but I was originally in charge of the Block 37 design that Mills (and MCL) proposed to the city during the bidding process and eventually the masterplan for the block that is now under construction. It is such a sad and frustrating story, I haven't wanted to relive it.

Anyway, throwing caution to the wind, here is a brief summary:

The original proposal we showed the city did indeed include a huge indoor skylight covered public plaza surrounded by 4 levels of retail that was linked to both State and Dearborn via a Milan Galleria type arcade running diagonally from roughly just south of the middle of the block on State to just south of the existing ComEd structure. This allowed clear and unobstructed views from Daley to the Fields building and vice versa.

Hovering above both the ComEd and the arcade entry starting approx. 100’ above grade was an approx. 40 story hotel/condo building that very effectively created the 4th wall, and another approx. 30-story condo tower running parallel to Randolph starting at the corner of State. The city and the mayor were impressed (although not with Mr. McLean on the team) – it went a long way in convincing the city that the suburban mall developer had a vision for building a dense, vertical, retail environment. The clincher was Mills convincing the city that they had the wherewithal to bring in a bevy of new, international, and unique retailers to the development.

Getting from there to where we are now was a long saga of a developer that apparently did not have international connections to bring home, did indeed think like a suburban developer that never had to deal with the intricacies of an incredibly complex multi-use program on one of the most convoluted infrastructure blocks within the entire city. So, with each new program change, i.e. Harrod’s appearing (and then disappearing), CBS, the CTA superstation (none of which were on the table when the project was awarded to Mills), rather than taking advantage of these new elements, the developer ultimately forced the design to get dumber and dumber, maximizing the rentable sf, minimizing costs, and refusing to pursue the potential aesthetic or even the investment opportunities of the elements that were programmatically unfamiliar to Mills, i.e. hotel , condos, and even office space. The ‘plaza’ kept on getting smaller and smaller to the point where when we handed it off to P&W (and eventually Gensler) I considered it nothing more than a typical suburban mall type atrium (and, from what I can tell from the current design, the only significant change since the ‘masterplan’ was finished was to reduce this atrium even further.)

I have most of the drawings documenting the entire evolution from plaza and arcade, Harrod’s, CBS, to CTA information pylon, etc., that when initially proposed together with some perspective sketches of such that were a result of whatever passion I still managed to maintain for the work, it almost got us fired, :) - fear I believe of promising the city goodies it didn’t want to deliver and fear of upsetting CBS in any way (the new CTA tunnel came on board after CBS generating a lot of concern about noise and vibration in the proposed studio). Anyhow, I probably shouldn’t post any drawings here but the detailed story of the above would make a great epilogue to the book already written about this block….(BTW, I no longer work for the firm(s) involved ;) )

[Steely Dan]

^ thanks for the insider's recap, pilsenarch.

what a monumental waste of a golden opportunity this project turned into.

though, didn't we all kind of suspect this once we found out mills would be involved, even if we didn't want to admit it to ourselves?

[wrab]

^^^ Yeah - thanks for the first-hand insight. Sometimes, alas, the tail really does wag the dog.

[10023]

Anyway, throwing caution to the wind, here is a brief summary:

Thanks for that.

Now here's the big question - what are the possibilities for gutting the thing in 20 years' time and redeveloping the block?

Or does the location of the CBS/Morningstar tower render that impossible?

[10023]

Didn't Mills buy the land from the city at a bargain-basement price?


That was the mistake that sealed this catastrophe, I believe. It allowed Mills to do the absolute minimum and still earn a profit on the development. The city should have held onto that land for as long as it needed until someone came in with a plan that was impressive enough that they could pay a market price for the land, and still earn an attractive return.

Land costs are the reason we have skyscrapers instead of little two story suburban lifestyle centers in the middle of cities - sell a mall developer the land at suburban prices, and get a suburban product.

[harryc]

http://lh6.google.com/harry.r.carmichael/RwrEmT6-lkI/AAAAAAAAJ7A/UsYhaS-4FtM/2007_10_03.jpg?imgmax=800

http://lh4.google.com/harry.r.carmichael/RwrFSz6-llI/AAAAAAAAJ7g/z0LMzkPRhYY/P1040269.JPG?imgmax=800

[pilsenarch]

Didn't Mills buy the land from the city at a bargain-basement price?

That was the mistake that sealed this catastrophe, I believe. It allowed Mills to do the absolute minimum and still earn a profit on the development. The city should have held onto that land for as long as it needed until someone came in with a plan that was impressive enough that they could pay a market price for the land, and still earn an attractive return.

Land costs are the reason we have skyscrapers instead of little two story suburban lifestyle centers in the middle of cities - sell a mall developer the land at suburban prices, and get a suburban product.

Yes, Mills recieved significant subsidies from the city, however, I believe the basic problem was the fact that the only way Mills knew how to make money was by constructing and leasing malls - not building office, hotel, or condo high-rises. The idea was that they would bring developer partners on board to drive those projects, but they 1) waited too long to bring anyone else on board and 2) when they did, the developer 'partners' had no real power or decision making in the formation of the block.

As far as gutting this, no, that will never happen in our lifetimes due to the immense infrastructure required to service the future condo towers, the secure CBS parking, studio, and yes the Morningstar hq, the underground and complex loading docks, and, most importantly, the impact the CTA tunnel has on all of the above. Having said that, the mall itself could and will go through endless design changes as malls are wont to do - just don't count on anything of architectural significance.

[10023]

I guess the question is, will there be a big enough chunk of 4 story retail space without towers and critical infrastructure that you could rip out a big chunk of shopping mall through the middle of the block and create some sort of outdoor space?

I guess the ComEd substation is now the big problem, as that would have to come down to do anything.

[pilsenarch]

you have no idea what a problem that ComEd station has been and the powers that control it...over the history of that block development, ComEd was the only party sticking around and keeping track. They started with significant demands for expanding, but did eventually pull back a little. As you can see, unlike all the prior schemes for this block, the substation remains exposed and as is. Not necessarily bad, but it would surprise everyone what a planning obstacle it became.

In the original scheme, I was suggesting that the building become a new art landmark, and that the city and Mills sponser a competition to wrap the structure with inspired media (it was the focus of not only the new indoor plaza, but Daley and the hotel/condo tower rested on it)...

But, I digress (obviously, I still have some issues...) what you suggest would be physically possible, but I doubt that any owner of the mall would ever willingly sacrifice rentable square footage. The time to make the landmark was during my tenure on the project and that was a few years ago. I feel like I must take some responsibilty for the outcome but I did the best I good. Maybe if Mills hired a design firm with a stronger reputation that utilized a designer with some political or celebrity clout, the project would have turned out differently, if, if, if,...

[the urban politician]

I realize that architecturally this thing will be nothing better than mediocre.

However, I said this before, and I'll say this again: this project can at least be halfway redeemed if it manages to bring a lot of retail and a significantly boost activity in this part of town.

I'm at least holding some hope that this will be the case with Block 37, which really bring a HUGE amount of retail space to the table.

Thanks for the info, pilsenarch. I have to admit that I had much higher hopes for the architecture here as well.

[pilsenarch]

Hey TUP, I just have to say I basically agree with you...despite the hell I feel I went through on this project, I am a total believer in this city and the few others like it...they are a limited resource and ultimately activity is better than none...I just wish that I could point to a result a little (a lot!) better but ultimately, if Friedman can make the place happen, more power to them (btw, the key Mills guy, the guy I dealt with on a daily basis for almost 3 years, now works for Friedman...not necessarily a good sign)

[VivaLFuego]

Thanks for the insider view pilsenarch....it really does seem to explain how everything has gone wrong. That large Galleria vista from Field's to Daley Plaza sounds impressive, and obviously I would have liked the huge ~50ft CTA pylon set amidst a bustling atrium.

[jjk1103]

...the street wall on State has seemed to stall ? ...why don't they glass it in ? ...or is the CTA construction holding things up ?

[Chicago3rd]

Didn't Mills buy the land from the city at a bargain-basement price?


That was the mistake that sealed this catastrophe, I believe. It allowed Mills to do the absolute minimum and still earn a profit on the development. The city should have held onto that land for as long as it needed until someone came in with a plan that was impressive enough that they could pay a market price for the land, and still earn an attractive return.

Land costs are the reason we have skyscrapers instead of little two story suburban lifestyle centers in the middle of cities - sell a mall developer the land at suburban prices, and get a suburban product.

Everyone on this board said the same thing when Mills took over. Daley turned down some really great work for this piece of crap. It will be an alright building...but it will not be anything like what Daley was holding out for. We do need to name it Daley's Taste Plaza.

[spyguy]

http://www.chicagobusiness.com/cgi-bin/mag/article.pl?article_id=28595

Apple eyes roost on State Street
IPod maker among retailers in Block 37 talks

By Eddie Baeb

Apple Inc. aims to put down roots on State Street as part of the Block 37 project.

Joseph Freed & Associates LLC, the Palatine-based developer of the retail and residential portion of the project, is in talks with Apple, as well as a host of other higher-end retailers including Coach, Puma, J. Crew and Zara, sources familiar with the plans say.

[the urban politician]

^ Wow, that's quite a lineup.

Like I said before, it (Block 37) may not be an architectural winner, but if it can bag retailers like those above, that area of the loop will become a whole new experience overnight.

I can't WAIT till my next trip to town. I'm dying to see all these changes

[Ecker]

The crane on the south end was coming down today.

[harryc]

Oct 14

http://lh3.google.com/harry.r.carmichael/RxLKvj6-m0I/AAAAAAAAKTk/YM1g9kXsfs8/IMG_4460.JPG?imgmax=800

http://lh6.google.com/harry.r.carmichael/RxLKxT6-m1I/AAAAAAAAKTs/CyqGn4V7C3c/IMG_4470.JPG?imgmax=800

[Alliance]

Adrian Smith: B37 is a "missed opportunity"

[Chi_Coruscant]

Finally!

www.chicagotribune.com/business/chi-wed_block37oct31,0,1546449.story

Theater a coming attraction at Block 37
By Sandra M. Jones

Tribune staff reporter

October 31, 2007

A luxury movie house is headed for the Loop.

Muvico Entertainment LLC signed a letter of intent to open an 800-seat, seven-screen movie complex at 108 N. State St., also known as Block 37, Michael Whalen, president and chief executive of the Ft. Lauderdale-based company, told the Tribune on Tuesday...

[spyguy]

Sounds good to me. I just hope this one isn't as gaudy as the Muvico in Rosemont.

[Alliance]

lol...that thing is an abomination.

[SamInTheLoop]

Finally!

www.chicagotribune.com/business/chi-wed_block37oct31,0,1546449.story

Theater a coming attraction at Block 37
By Sandra M. Jones

Tribune staff reporter

October 31, 2007

A luxury movie house is headed for the Loop.

Muvico Entertainment LLC signed a letter of intent to open an 800-seat, seven-screen movie complex at 108 N. State St., also known as Block 37, Michael Whalen, president and chief executive of the Ft. Lauderdale-based company, told the Tribune on Tuesday...


This is fantastic news! I've been advocating for some type of upscale movie venue at Block 37 for some time. Has Daley finally gotten over his silly aversion to movie theaters? There definitely is a niche market out there for dinner/movie venues.

I do agree however about concern for the interior design, given Muvico's other gaudy stuff. This is part of the reason I was holding out hope that Century Theatres would go in with a partial CineArts concept ala downtown Evanston. At any rate, no matter what the design, I'll probably be a frequent patron here.

This is really great news, as the 4th floor is now completely spoken for, hopefully this will lead to some momentum for the 3rd floor (leasing above the 2nd floor for retail spaces and drawing people up there is quite challenging - I think more than a lot of people realize....

Also I think this could be a great complement to the Siskel Film Center, which I think is a real Chicago cultural gem...

[the urban politician]

^ It would be nice if they built an eye-catching (but still tasteful) marquee on Randolph, to complement the other marquees as well as adding a bit of splash to the theatre district

[Alliance]

Yeah, but Muvico really needs to have taste in this. No giant pegasus statues and giant concrete walls painted in awkward desert pastels. Some asian megaplex-inspired designs mught be appropriate, or even better, somethin with steel :cool:

[SamInTheLoop]

Yeah, but Muvico really needs to have taste in this. No giant pegasus statues and giant concrete walls painted in awkward desert pastels. Some asian megaplex-inspired designs mught be appropriate, or even better, somethin with steel :cool:


Amen.

I know - they have demonstrated a penchant for ancient civilization design themes. Might work in some anonymous suburb or exurb, but not here. Let the movies take us back to ancient Egypt or whatever - the design of the theater (and most importantly by far - any design elemant visible on the exterior) should acknowledge this is the 21st century...

[firstcranialnerve]

^^ Thank God, since so many local cinemas died (McClurg, Esquire, Fine Arts, Water Tower etc) AMC on Illinois is packed to the brim with locals and mostly burbanites. I def. think there would be demand judging from the times i've seen shows sell out... another cinema within walking distance... great news... nice to read it may be a little different experience too :tup:

[spyguy]

THas Daley finally gotten over his silly aversion to movie theaters?

http://chicagorealestatedaily.com/cgi-bin/news.pl?id=26956

Luxury movie theater signs at Block 37
By Eddie Baeb

A Planning Department spokesman says the city now supports the plan, noting that venues like Muvico that feature more plush seating and food service in exchange for higher ticket prices weren’t around when the most recent plan for the long-vacant Block 37 was hatched.

[VivaLFuego]

Amen.

I know - they have demonstrated a penchant for ancient civilization design themes. Might work in some anonymous suburb or exurb, but not here. Let the movies take us back to ancient Egypt or whatever - the design of the theater (and most importantly by far - any design elemant visible on the exterior) should acknowledge this is the 21st century...

I take it you dislike the old theatre palaces?
... the Music Box, Aragon, Uptown, Congress, such pretentious junk, they should have finished tearing down all those Balaban and Katz testaments to hubris?

[Alliance]

I take it you dislike the old theatre palaces?
... the Music Box, Aragon, Uptown, Congress, such pretentious junk, they should have finished tearing down all those Balaban and Katz testaments to hubris?

He never said that. He simply said that they shouldn't pretend to be one. Besides, there were no cinemas in ancient egypt.

[harryc]

Oct 26

http://lh5.google.com/harry.r.carmichael/RykTt-pIlWI/AAAAAAAALeA/iwkSwhzVPdU/P1080611.JPG?imgmax=640

Oct 29

Ductwork

http://lh5.google.com/harry.r.carmichael/RykTv-pIlXI/AAAAAAAALeM/5JWoey_xEHo/P1090536.JPG?imgmax=512

http://lh5.google.com/harry.r.carmichael/RykTz-pIlZI/AAAAAAAALeo/O83OXyvbLbk/P1090538.JPG?imgmax=640

Top down - still going down

http://lh3.google.com/harry.r.carmichael/RykTxepIlYI/AAAAAAAALeY/mULS39rbwCs/P1090537.JPG?imgmax=512

http://lh4.google.com/harry.r.carmichael/RykT1upIlaI/AAAAAAAALe0/zaaC01M_iAQ/P1090539.JPG?imgmax=640

Getting there

http://lh5.google.com/harry.r.carmichael/RykUP-pIlbI/AAAAAAAALfA/ZljGa7wPQew/2007_10_29d.JPG?imgmax=800

[k1052]

With approximately 800 seats for an 8 screen theater in this location the admission pricing is going to be....formidable to say the least to be able to meet their rent obligations (let alone be profitable). Not to mention even higher markups on food and alcohol than usual.

[Alliance]

Too bad they were'nt landed before the design process and they could have actually integrated it well into the structure.

However, if if its successful, I hope that really creates pressure for more to be built. (Sundance?)

[k1052]

Too bad they were'nt landed before the design process and they could have actually integrated it well into the structure.

However, if if its successful, I hope that really creates pressure for more to be built. (Sundance?)

The Sundance project seems to drift in and out of reality given the larger issues getting approval for the development.

The next signifigant theater downtown will be the Kerasotes 16 screen complex in the Roosevelt Collection (which is already underway) probably opening early 09.

[chicubs111]

I just read an article in the tribune about possible casino sites and they mentioned block 37 numersous times...this location is popular becasue its in the heart of the city and can boost the theatre district and compliment the 24 hour downtown goal city hall wants...the only thing that pisses me off is that freakin the current design of block 37 limits what can be done for a really great casino...i wish this casino thing came into play during the desining stage for block 37 so that we could of had a signicant tower.:hell: :hell:

[the urban politician]

^ Vice and sin in the Loop? NAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHH!!!!! ;)