[MolsonExport]

Model of WCK:
http://cache.gawkerassets.com/assets/images/8/2010/04/500x_3249878521_a441e87602_b.jpg
c/o io9



The Walled City Where Sunlight Couldn't Reach

A dystopian megacity, in which buildings merge together to become a single solid block, is the stuff of science fiction — but it already happened, in Hong Kong. The Kowloon Walled City was packed so tightly, it became an arcology.

Kowloon Walled City arose out of a weird circumstance in the treaty between the Brits and the Chinese that created Hong Kong. China gave the New Territories to the Brits in 1898 but excluded the Walled City, which the Chinese wanted to be able to use as an outpost. The Walled City developed a kind of status as a no-man's land — but it was really only after the Japanese surrendered after World War II that the Walled City became totally ungoverned, with neither the Chinese nor the British exercising control.


More here: http://io9.com/5512888/the-walled-city-where-sunlight-couldnt-reach

[MolsonExport]

The Walled City of Kowloon: Demolition begins (rare shot):

http://www.michaelhoppengallery.com/files/c7634b5a5a6664a0fdaba77b41352715.large.jpg
Michael Hoppen Gallery

[MolsonExport]

The Roof (Rare Shot):
http://csflta.files.wordpress.com/2009/07/rooftop.jpg
c/o coolstufffromalongtimeago.com

[Cornholio0815]

Hi all,

does anybody know about the movie 'In Search of the Dragon's Tale (1997)' by
by See Wan Kei and Haymann Lau and if this is available on dvd or somewhere else? This documentary takes a look inside the Walled City. Should be very interesting and i would love to see this! I've already sent a mail to the mail adresses given on this site, but these adresses don't seem to exist anymore.

http://dragon.tripod.com/


Many thanks and regards
Cornholio0815

[JeanPetr]

Not sure if this has been posted before but I found the historical pictures and the videos here to be particularly interesting:
http://www.zenheart.hk/viewthread.php?tid=12378

All the text is in Chinese but then again, pictures are just a fantastic.

[MolsonExport]

JeanPetr: welcome to the forum and thanks for that great link. Lots of shots that I have never seen.

[JeanPetr]

Thanks for the welcome!

Here is a site with images showing the state of the city from the early 1800 to 1900's:
http://www.thechinaphoto.com/?action-viewnews-itemid-312

and some taken by the British during the period of colonization showing the surrounding landscape and the filling of the bay in front of the old city.
http://www.wholehk.com/redirect.php?fid=308&tid=12158&goto=nextnewset

[MolsonExport]

^love the photos in the links. Post more if you got them.

[YoMattD]

A bunch of great finds! And wow - this thread gets roughly 1,000 views a week!

There's some more information about "In Search of the Dragon's Tale" back on page 10. Following one of the links from there, I found an email address for the director, Stuart M. Rankin (aka See Wan Kei): haymann@hongkong.com
I haven't tried emailing him; if anyone does, please post and let us know what happens!

I have a few more things to share, too.

Here are two then-and-now photos of the KWC area:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/old-hk/3098174924/sizes/o/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/old-hk/3099687739/sizes/o/

The whole set, which is 256 photos from all over Kowloon (not just KWC), is here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/old-hk/sets/72157608671442470/
Lot of really cool photos in the whole set.

Here is a map (from the same study I've quoted from before), showing where the KWC was in relation to Kai Tak. It was shockingly close!
(sorry for the blur, but it was present in the original scan)

http://i.imgur.com/19SwD.png

[SAM_1234]

Here is another YouTube clip:

Memories of KWC
Short comments by past residents
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cYgja853h7k&feature=fvst


.
There is a couple of video clips interviewing
past residents in the Walled City Park display area (Spring 2010)
Has anyone watched these films?
.

[MolsonExport]

^Sam, those Walled City photographs and maps that you sent me are spectacular, and need to be posted here in the annals of SSP! I hope to secure permission to repost them here.

[MolsonExport]

Extremely rare photos of the Walled city of Kowloon. Many thanks to SAM 1234 for sharing these photos. All photos courtesy of Mrs. Ho (KWC Study Paper, Hong Kong University archives: http://lookup.lib.hku.hk/lookup/bib/B36228527). Here is the first batch (more to come!):

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e308/Cassecroute/cages1.jpg
http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e308/Cassecroute/buildinginconst.jpghttp://i42http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e308/Cassecroute/cages3.jpg.photobucket.com/albums/e308/Cassecroute/cages2.jpghttp://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e308/Cassecroute/cages4.jpghttp://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e308/Cassecroute/cages5.jpghttp://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e308/Cassecroute/cannon.jpghttp://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e308/Cassecroute/cnec2.jpghttp://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e308/Cassecroute/dentist.jpghttp://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e308/Cassecroute/cnec3.jpghttp://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e308/Cassecroute/factory1.jpg

[MolsonExport]

More rarely seen photos and angles of the Walled City of Kowloon:

The water supply and standpipes:
http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e308/Cassecroute/pipes.jpghttp://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e308/Cassecroute/pipes2.jpghttp://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e308/Cassecroute/pipes3.jpghttp://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e308/Cassecroute/pipes4.jpghttp://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e308/Cassecroute/standpipe1.jpghttp://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e308/Cassecroute/standpipe2.jpghttp://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e308/Cassecroute/standpipe3.jpg



Up on the roof, where the air is so fresh and clean (if you can stand the ear-shattering roar of planes landing at adjacent Kai tak airport!):
http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e308/Cassecroute/rooftop2.jpghttp://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e308/Cassecroute/rooftop1.jpg

This Dentist is accepting new patients:
http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e308/Cassecroute/signstungtau.jpg






All photos courtesy of Mrs. Ho (KWC Study Paper, Hong Kong University archives: http://lookup.lib.hku.hk/lookup/bib/B36228527).

[MolsonExport]

"Street-life" in the Walled City:
http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e308/Cassecroute/street0.jpghttp://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e308/Cassecroute/street1.jpghttp://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e308/Cassecroute/street2.jpghttp://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e308/Cassecroute/street3.jpghttp://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e308/Cassecroute/street4.jpghttp://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e308/Cassecroute/street5.jpghttp://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e308/Cassecroute/street6.jpghttp://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e308/Cassecroute/street7.jpghttp://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e308/Cassecroute/street8.jpghttp://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e308/Cassecroute/street9.jpg



All photos courtesy of Mrs. Ho (KWC Study Paper, Hong Kong University archives: http://lookup.lib.hku.hk/lookup/bib/B36228527).

[SD_Phil]

Every now and again this thread comes back to life and every time it does I pop in to check it out. This place will always fascinate and shock me with its mix of poverty, density, and anarchy. I can't not look away whenever someone posts images or videos.

[JHoward88]

I feel kind of guilty saying this, and I have a feeling that throughout the last 16 pages someone possibly already has... but when I look at this structure, the first thing that pops into my head is the image of blocks of compressed garbage from a compactor. It is so multi-colored, and squashed looking.

The thought that people were living in there is both vaguely disturbing and fascinating at the same time.

[MolsonExport]

You have raised a nice topic for discussion and its high time to know how may of us are aware about it.

I smell SPAM.

[SAM_1234]

Molson, glad you were able to post the photos.


Did you notice the rat in the center of the photo in the piping section
of photos?

******

The (illegal) building extensions/cages were actually quite expensive,
if you lucky enough to have an outside flat.
They averaged 3' X 10'. You can notice the different
iron work patterns on the cages.
Some were quite fancy and intricate, some were plainly
copied from the local jail.

*****

Can you imagine compacting 30,000 persons into an area smaller
than the size of an average Amercican shopping mall?

*******

[MolsonExport]

^I couldn't imagine that. Nor could I imagine 30,000 of the average-sized American mall shoppers congregating together. Too much lard.

[Reesonov]

Thanks SAM and Molson. Fascinating photos. Although the size of the human community living in the walled city is no doubt astounding, I can't help but speculate that the size of the cockroach community, were it known, would be even more astounding.

[teekay]

I haven't been delving into KWC-related stuff much recently, but I'm really impressed with what people in this thread have found over the past months. Keep up the great work!

Just a reminder, if any of the images you find can be used under Wikipedia's image use policy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Copyright_FAQ#Can_I_add_something_to_Wikipedia_that_I_got_from_somewhere_else.3F), or if there's any important (reliably sourced) information missing from KWC's Wikipedia article (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kowloon_Walled_City), please let me know.

[MolsonExport]

^will do. More photos will be posted soon.

[olivepixel]

http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?p=5001918#post5001918 - Chungking Mansions, perhaps the closest thing left to KWC? Not nearly as amazing of course.

[MolsonExport]

^fantastic photos! I've made a few references to Chunking Mansions on these pages.

[JeanPetr]

Here are some images from the tenant eviction and eventual distruction of the KWC.
http://news.hkheadline.com/figure/index.asp?id=132
http://news.hkheadline.com/figure/index.asp?id=145

From the wrecking ball image, its interesting to see how flimsy the structures actually were: thin walls and thin floors.

[MolsonExport]

^these pictures are great; thanks!! Most of which I have never seen.

[MolsonExport]

http://img.hkheadline.com/headline/af/figure/images/2010/07/20100720160301_7694.jpg
http://img.hkheadline.com/headline/af/figure/images/2010/07/20100720160301_3680.jpg
http://img.hkheadline.com/headline/af/figure/images/2010/07/20100720160301_4181.jpg
http://img.hkheadline.com/headline/af/figure/images/2010/07/20100720160125_9823.jpghttp://img.hkheadline.com/headline/af/figure/images/2010/07/20100720160125_8300.jpg
http://img.hkheadline.com/headline/af/figure/images/2010/07/20100720160125_5018.jpg

all images c/o hkheadline.com

[teekay]

^^^
Those are really incredible. Great job.

Manshiyat Naser (also called Garbage City) is a slum area in Cairo that, while less dense than KWC, bears a fair amount of resemblance to it in terms of roofscape.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manshiyat_naser
urbanigloos.wordpress.com/2010/02/16/garbage-city
terselubung.blogspot.com/2010/09/manshiyat-naser-kota-sampah.html
flickr.com/photos/helmacron/4221369161

[M II A II R II K]

Part 1 of a 1989 German documentary on Hong Kong's fabled Kowloon Walled City.


Lby9P3ms11w

[MolsonExport]

Mark, awesome find. Where do you get all your shit? Amazing. Fantastiche und wunderbar.

[MolsonExport]

over a fifth of a million visitors. Time for some updates. I have some new photos (graciously donated), but need some time to put them out for viewing.

[Anders Franzén]

Don't know if it's already have been mentioned but I just read an article about Büyük Valide Han in Istanbul, a place that share many similarities with KWC.

Here's a flickr photo with additional links:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/mamondini/5038834450/

The place's been around since the 17th century and the informal economy is still functional, altough threatened by the government who wants to gentrify it. The question of ownership is complex to say the least and that's the reason it's still there appaerently.

Back to KWC. I heard about this band (http://rateyourmusic.com/artist/kowloon_walled_city) some days ago.

[MolsonExport]

Büyük Valide Han : neat. Never knew of the place.

[Reesonov]

That documentary was an awesome find.

Also, those demolition photos remind me of the Simpsons episode were Bart buys the abandoned factory at an auction, which eventually collapses, and its large community of rats and roaches flees next door to Moe's tavern, who advises his customers to tuck their pants into their socks. I wouldn't have wanted to be living next door to the walled city on demolition day.

[lucky]

I have been to HONG KONG before, and it was about 15 years ago. It was very crowded at that time. As time passes, I think it's getting crowded........

[MolsonExport]

Gutenberg, New Jersey is the densest United States town, with 56,000 people per square mile. Marine Division in Mumbai, India is currently the densest human inhabitance on earth, with ~300,000 people per square mile. Kowloon Walled City had a population density of 3.3 million people per square mile. Compare to the list of cities ranked by population density:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cities_proper_by_population_density

[Swede]

Gutenberg, New Jersey is the densest United States town, with 56,000 people per square mile. Marine Division in Mumbai, India is currently the densest human inhabitance on earth, with ~300,000 people per square mile. Kowloon Walled City had a population density of 3.3 million people per square mile. Compare to the list of cities ranked by population density:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cities_proper_by_population_density
If Guttenberg was as dense as KWC it'd have ~6.5 million inhabitants.
If Manhattan was as dense as KWC it'd have ~76 million inhabitants.
If Earth was as dense as KWC it'd have 190 trillion inhabitants (that's 27 000 times the current population). Since Mars has a surface area roughly that of Earths land surface, that's what we'd have if we put a hyper-dense ecumenopolis on Mars - that way we could make all of Earth a nature preserve :D

[imimix]

Hi,

I am a student from the UK doing an extended school research project on the subject of the Kowloon Walled City.

My main aims are to find out:

1. What life was like within the KWC
2. What events and processes led to its demotion
3. Did the demolition improve the lives of the former residents

I am currently in the very early stages of this project, preparing for my visit to HK this summer. I have been in contact with several people and organisations including the Hong Kong Housing Authority, Kowloon Walled City Park, Jackie Pullinger, Louise Low, Lord Wilson of Tillyorn, Greg Girard amongst others. Nevertheless, I am struggling to find any information which would be useful for this project.

I wondered if anyone knew of specific websites/places to find the relevant information and statistics. For instance are there any census data, land-use surveys, crime statistics etc from the KWC.

Anyway I would appreciate any advice anyone could give me on this topic!

[MolsonExport]

^If I found any of those sites, I generally have posted them somewhere within this thread (many may not be operational, on account of the 7 year span of this thread)

[Trantor]

If Guttenberg was as dense as KWC it'd have ~6.5 million inhabitants.
If Manhattan was as dense as KWC it'd have ~76 million inhabitants.
If Earth was as dense as KWC it'd have 190 trillion inhabitants (that's 27 000 times the current population). Since Mars has a surface area roughly that of Earths land surface, that's what we'd have if we put a hyper-dense ecumenopolis on Mars - that way we could make all of Earth a nature preserve :D

and thats with the low (relatively) buildings in KWC. Coruscant is suppose to be in average one kilometer tall at least... so I guess we could multiply those 76 trillion by 10x at least.

since you are into that, calculate the total population of the RingWorld from Larry Niven´s books, with that density. :D

[rapid_business]

Never knew there was an SSP page for the walled city...

I'll have to spend some time reading through this thread soon. :tup:

[MolsonExport]

^this is the son of the original Walled City of Kowloon thread, which was removed during the great thread pruning of 2002 (to which TalB demanded cash compensation, and/or season tickets to the WNBA)

[MolsonExport]

Thanks SAM and Molson. Fascinating photos. Although the size of the human community living in the walled city is no doubt astounding, I can't help but speculate that the size of the cockroach community, were it known, would be even more astounding.

I read somewhere that there were an estimated 10 rats for every human inhabitant, and when the walled city came down, this prompted a massive vermin infestation of the surrounding neighborhoods.

[Reesonov]

I read somewhere that there were an estimated 10 rats for every human inhabitant, and when the walled city came down, this prompted a massive vermin infestation of the surrounding neighborhoods.

Just like that episode of the Simpsons. Judging from my experiences in various Chungking Mansion guesthouses where I was outnumbered by cockroaches by at least 100 to 1, I would put the cockroach:human ratio at 1000:1 for the walled city.

[MolsonExport]

^I envy you for having the experience, although not quite enough to stay there (Chunking Mansions) when I visit HK next year.

[pioli12]

Were there really giant bird cages hanging from the balconies giving the residences more space in their room? Or is that just a myth.

[MolsonExport]

^I have the book "City of Darkness", and it is most certainly true.

[Swede]

and thats with the low (relatively) buildings in KWC. Coruscant is suppose to be in average one kilometer tall at least... so I guess we could multiply those 76 trillion by 10x at least.

since you are into that, calculate the total population of the RingWorld from Larry Niven´s books, with that density. :D
Wiki holds that the Ringworld (awesome concept & awesome books btw) has 3 million times the surface area of Earth. So... that's 76 000 000 000 000 * 10 * 3 000 000. Oh, and the Earth number is for just the land area, so divide that result by 0.292. Which gives us a Ringworld Ecumenopolis population of...
7 808 219 178 082 191 780 822. Call it 7.8 sextillion people. Which means 7.8 septillion cockroaches :P

[MolsonExport]

dZmzV8gZ4H4

[KevinFromTexas]

^I have the book "City of Darkness", and it is most certainly true.

Are there any photos of this craziness? I'd love to see that.

[MolsonExport]

^the book is full of great photos. A few maps as well. Most of it consists of a series of vignettes on various businesses/residents/social clubs/etc. within the walled city. Plenty of interviews. By far, the best reference on KWC.

[etiennec]

http://www.greggirard.com/kowloonwalledcity/work.kowloonwalledcity.html

[MolsonExport]

^thanks for the great link! Great photos. Some of which appear in "City of Darkness"

In case you wondered where toilet plungers were made:
http://www.greggirard.com/kowloonwalledcity/550/18.jpg
greggirard

[MolsonExport]

New link and photos on KWC: http://www.urbanphoto.net/blog/2011/01/08/whats-left-of-the-kowloon-walled-city/

http://www.urbanphoto.net/blog/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/walledcity3.jpg

Cross Section (!!):
http://www.urbanphoto.net/blog/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/walledcity1-large.jpg

Video (in Japanese):
No_vQ8FiQiw

Photocredits: Urbanphoto, Posted in Architecture, Asia Pacific, Heritage and Preservation, History, Interior Space, Society and Culture by Christopher DeWolf

[MolsonExport]

Shibab, Yemen:
http://ministryoftype.co.uk/images/files/shibam.jpg
ministryoftype

[Reesonov]

^ Absolutely amazing.

I've been half-assedly planning trips to Yemen for years now. Its too bad that the political situation seems to be unravelling again. I won't be risking a visit anytime in the near future anyway.

[MolsonExport]

I'd love to see some ground-level pictures from inside Shibab.

It is on my list of places to see before I die.

[Tom In Chicago]

+1. . . there's actually quite a few places in Yemen that I'd like to visit. . . it's on my bucket list. . .

. . .

[NYC4Life]

Those densely packed structures seem to be common place in the capital Sana'a.

From Wikipedia:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/d5/Sanaa%2C_Yemen_view.jpg/800px-Sanaa%2C_Yemen_view.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/04/Sana.jpg/800px-Sana.jpg

[MolsonExport]

^really spectacular. And for once, not a McDick's or Fourbucks in sight. On the other hand, probably more dangerous than Mos Eisley.

[Anders Franzén]

Guess which city has the no. 1 place in this list:

http://www.cracked.com/article_19590_the-6-weirdest-cities-people-actually-live-in_p2.html

[MolsonExport]

Art inspired by Walled City of Kowloon:
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-1Tw-CktpiA0/TVhWkz__aiI/AAAAAAAABZo/PLtNm2MvTeM/s1600/kowloon_walled_city_by_androgs-d2yuaki.jpg
androgs-d2yuaki c/o Zhara's Blog

A sign of the times:
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-8wIXxlzrEek/TVhWSiypuoI/AAAAAAAABZk/6YPxhKVTlG0/s1600/80klnwcity_figure5_large.jpg


Living inside the box
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-IC--qufBwu0/TVhWmzSu3gI/AAAAAAAABZs/seELp-h-Nvs/s1600/reuters_bobby_yip_content.jpghttp://4.bp.blogspot.com/-aTqAP6410Bo/TVhWo73RcSI/AAAAAAAABZ0/Yx1O6ys_NMc/s1600/reuters_bobbyyip2_content.jpghttp://2.bp.blogspot.com/-z2f4iuvV0_g/TVhWphyEkXI/AAAAAAAABZ4/3vdewtc8GKc/s1600/reuters_victorfraile_content.jpghttp://2.bp.blogspot.com/-1FvAvraDPIM/TVhWqjuzojI/AAAAAAAABZ8/jNSFXDZKEjU/s1600/soco_caged_homes_content.jpg
Reuters


all images from http://snowcherries-from-france.blogspot.com/2011/02/hong-kong-abandon-kowloon-walled-city.html

[MolsonExport]

Coilhouse Magazine and Blog: Kowloon Walled City: The Modern Pirate Utopia

http://coilhouse.net/2008/08/kowloon-walled-city-the-modern-pirate-utopia/

walking through parts of the walled city:
OSnvqBhWUOc

[MolsonExport]

New York Times (March 1, 2012)


...
“So, the highest-density spot ever measured on earth was Kowloon Walled City,” he said, referring to a regulatory no-man’s-land in the heart of Hong Kong claimed by both China and Britain, but ruled by neither. Roughly the size of five football fields, the district at its peak in the 1980s housed an estimated 35,000 people in a vertical thicket of chamber pots and darkness. It was demolished in 1994.

You guys have to see this,” Mr. Ruchala said.

An iPhone was produced. A Wikipedia entry was summoned. A photo was passed around the table. Gasps. Profanity.

“It was basically a thick waffle of density,” Mr. Ruchala said.

“So this is just renegade?” someone asked.

“Pretty renegade,” Mr. Ruchala answered, “Yeah. But awesomely renegade.”

The night’s calculations revealed that packing Manhattan as tightly as Kowloon Walled City, river to river, would mean jamming in 65 million people. That’s if every surface was built on. If the current streets and parks were left intact? About half that many, or nearly the population of California.

Clearly, nobody wants to live in a claustrophobic warren of vertical slums. But what, ultimately, do New Yorkers want? To freeze the city as is? Grow slowly? Build higher and faster? Stretch Manhattan’s boundaries with landfill?

...


http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/04/realestate/how-many-people-can-manhattan-hold.html?pagewanted=3&_r=2&hpw

[MolsonExport]

Long lost WCK photographs. From http://worldphotocollections.blogspot.ca/2010/06/kowloon-walled-city-hong-kong-china.html, all photos c/o IDEAL
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_kxPG6y8Qctk/TBpLHfjXDxI/AAAAAAAAdHY/TZIqStKgZjY/s800/Old+Photos+KWC+%285%29.JPGhttp://2.bp.blogspot.com/_kxPG6y8Qctk/TBpLG2PCuaI/AAAAAAAAdHQ/YK5VKQXjsAA/s800/Old+Photos+KWC+%284%29.JPGhttp://4.bp.blogspot.com/_kxPG6y8Qctk/TBpJ8Vcq3jI/AAAAAAAAdGw/I2qfOVcjiWM/s800/Old+Photos+KWC.jpghttp://4.bp.blogspot.com/_kxPG6y8Qctk/TBpLHwUk5cI/AAAAAAAAdHg/tMHcsmjB_io/s800/Old+Photos+KWC+%286%29.JPGhttp://2.bp.blogspot.com/_kxPG6y8Qctk/TBpG5BCJReI/AAAAAAAAdBc/alaL2Fg9yP4/s800/Cross+Section+%281%29.jpg

[MolsonExport]

The air above KWC:
9gxMQP2YTr4


German documentary on KWC:
xYXPRSRIAPQ

[scalziand]

One has to wonder how tall the ramshackle buildings would have gotten were they not limited by the airport.

[MolsonExport]

Insane density witnessed here in Shanghai. Will soon post photos to this effect.

[MolsonExport]

May 5, 2012 Daily Mail. Article on Kowloon Walled City, with some great pictures; a sampling below. All photos c/o Ian Lambot and Greg Girard (most of which are in "City of Darkness" book)

Read more here: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2139914/A-rare-insight-Kowloon-Walled-City.html

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2012/05/05/article-2139914-12EF32A4000005DC-199_964x620.jpg

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2012/05/05/article-2139914-12EF314C000005DC-57_964x619.jpg

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2012/05/05/article-2139914-12EF3293000005DC-755_964x618.jpg

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2012/05/05/article-2139914-12EF3138000005DC-187_964x628.jpg

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2012/05/05/article-2139914-12EF3ABA000005DC-428_964x580.jpg

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2012/05/05/article-2139914-12EF321E000005DC-81_964x604.jpg

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2012/05/05/article-2139914-12EF31CE000005DC-286_470x745.jpg

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2012/05/05/article-2139914-12EF320B000005DC-960_470x745.jpghttp://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2012/05/05/article-2139914-12EF32DA000005DC-613_470x690.jpg

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2012/05/05/article-2139914-12EF3370000005DC-213_964x630.jpg

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2012/05/05/article-2139914-12EF31F9000005DC-166_964x611.jpg

[MolsonExport]

More great pictures by Greg Girard: http://greggirard.com/work/kowloon-walled-city--13

Does this put you off of pork? Walled city BBQ meat factory:
http://greggirard.com/content/gallery/11106-GG0988.jpg

Walled city rubber plunger factory:
http://greggirard.com/content/gallery/11113-GG0389.jpg

Walled city fishball factory:
http://greggirard.com/content/gallery/11116-GG0587.jpg


Walled city Dentist window:
http://greggirard.com/content/gallery/11122-GG0989.jpg
click weblink for many other great photos of WCK as well as Shanghai, Hanoi, etc.

[MolsonExport]

great collection of KWC videos/photos: http://www.oobject.com/category/kowloon-walled-city-guide/

[The_Architect]

How did they demolish it? Was it imploded? Deconstructed? Excavator? Good ol fashioned wrecking ball?

[MolsonExport]

Good old fashioned wrecking ball.

[LSyd]

i'm glad they've found all of these long-lost photos. thanks for posting.

-

[jd3189]

This is one of the best threads on here.Such mind boggling density.:slob:

[MolsonExport]

Life in Kowloon Walled City
EKqKdg3iRY4
No_vQ8FiQiw

surrounding neighborhood (1998), planes over Kowloon
UyU9OLqQ8XA

[MolsonExport]

KWC animation
TN7UwbhoYEw

[mhays]

I want to go there almost as much as visit Coruscant.

[mrnyc]

^ ha yeah! hard to believe its almost 20 years gone.

[MolsonExport]

Thought I'd mention that on Sept 24, this thread celebrated 8 years.

[MolsonExport]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/0b/Chung_king_mansions.jpg
wikimedia

A poor substitute for the WCK experience, but fascinating never the less: Chunking Mansions, Nathan Rd., Kowloon

The Economist compared it to the Spaceport Cantina in the original Star Wars and quotes anthropologist Gordon Mathews: "whereas the illegalities in Chungking Mansions are widely known, the wondrousness of the place is not."
wikipedia

[Tony]

^ I went in there. It wasn't as interesting as I hoped it would be.

It looks like this now:

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8153/7495894102_fd28651c6c_c.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/anthonysun/7495894102/)
IMG_2624 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/anthonysun/7495894102/) by SSP Tony (http://www.flickr.com/people/anthonysun/), on Flickr

I don't know what it looks like inside this one, but the naming is pretty funny:

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8148/7496001138_5146a4fcf7_c.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/anthonysun/7496001138/)
ps IMG_3194 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/anthonysun/7496001138/) by SSP Tony (http://www.flickr.com/people/anthonysun/), on Flickr

[alps]

I live near the Chungking Mansions and go there to eat sometimes. My building has a similar design but doesn't have as large a shopping mall, as many guesthouses, or foreign merchants. My room is 3.5 sq. metres (37 sq. feet).

[MolsonExport]

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8148/7496001138_5146a4fcf7_c.jpg

Any Chiquitita bananas inside that store where Fernando works? What's the name of the game? Or Chinese hookers asking "Voulez-Vous?"

[mhays]

I live near the Chungking Mansions and go there to eat sometimes. My building has a similar design but doesn't have as large a shopping mall, as many guesthouses, or foreign merchants. My room is 3.5 sq. metres (37 sq. feet).

This puts the debates some US cities are having about 220 square feet or 150 square feet in context.

I wouldn't want to live in 37 square feet but part of me wouldn't mind it, for a while, particularly if Hong Kong was outside.

[alps]

This puts the debates some US cities are having about 220 square feet or 150 square feet in context.

I wouldn't want to live in 37 square feet but part of me wouldn't mind it, for a while, particularly if Hong Kong was outside.
It was easy to measure!

I'm a student and can't afford much better, but you get used to the size. Kinda wish I had some view from my window other than a bleak void space. I dropped a towel down there and have no clue how to access the bottom.

My building was built in 1963, a couple years after the Chungking Mansions. The original apartment was actually a good size, but at some point it was subdivided into five smaller rental units.

[MolsonExport]

I am fascinated by the cultural characteristics that facilitate people to live in social environments characterized by extreme density and lack of personal space (as well as tolerance for otherwise dystopian urban fabrics).

For example, Tseung Kwan O district (also in Hong Kong):
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/21/Tseung_Kwan_O_Plaza.jpg
wikipedia

l02btY_DE-I

^Despite its wretched appearance to many Western eyes, my understanding is that the place is fully occupied of gainfully employed people. Some of my former students live in the complex.

[Tony]

I am fascinated by the cultural characteristics that facilitate people to live in social environments characterized by extreme density and lack of personal space (as well as tolerance for otherwise dystopian urban fabrics).

It's because the populations have adapted to using the public realm as their living room and dining room. These itty-bitty units are only used for sleeping and humping (usually).

[Chicago103]

I live near the Chungking Mansions and go there to eat sometimes. My building has a similar design but doesn't have as large a shopping mall, as many guesthouses, or foreign merchants. My room is 3.5 sq. metres (37 sq. feet).

Is there a bath/toilet area in your room or do you have a shared bathroom with other units? In my view as long as I can sleep, shower and shit in private and there is a world class city just outside my unit I could manage. Actually I have thought about the concept of making apartment that are the same size as pre-1970 standard residential bathrooms, they usually have a sink, a tub/shower and a toilet, the towel closet and place under the sink would be your closets, enough room for a hot plate/microwave on one side of the sink and your bed would be a small mattress in between the tub and toilet/sink or perhaps sleep on the mattress in the tub at night. So basically you have total privacy but nothing else, paradise for introverted devout urbanists. I would call it "urban monk apartments", essentially people who are so religious about urbanism they are willing to give up virtually all earthly possessions to live in an awesome city. Materialism and a desire for space is the slippery slope to SUV's and McMansions on a cul-de-sac.

[MonkeyRonin]

37 sqft!?! Thats not even the size of a king size bed!

I think the smallest I could do is about 72 sqft - or the size of 4 single beds. Here's a floorplan prototype I made for a space of that size:

http://i.imgur.com/hFKW6.jpg


I'd live there if the price & location were right. :haha:

[alps]

Here's a scale model of my room:

http://i.imgur.com/x051p.png

I keep some basic food and my possessions on the shelf, and clothing on the rack and in the drawers built into the bottom of the bed. The desk folds down, against the wall, but the door opens outward anyway so I never actually fold it down. I keep cleaning supplies and oatmeal under that.

Is there a bath/toilet area in your room or do you have a shared bathroom with other units? In my view as long as I can sleep, shower and shit in private and there is a world class city just outside my unit I could manage. Actually I have thought about the concept of making apartment that are the same size as pre-1970 standard residential bathrooms, they usually have a sink, a tub/shower and a toilet, the towel closet and place under the sink would be your closets, enough room for a hot plate/microwave on one side of the sink and your bed would be a small mattress in between the tub and toilet/sink or perhaps sleep on the mattress in the tub at night. So basically you have total privacy but nothing else, paradise for introverted devout urbanists. I would call it "urban monk apartments", essentially people who are so religious about urbanism they are willing to give up virtually all earthly possessions to live in an awesome city. Materialism and a desire for space is the slippery slope to SUV's and McMansions on a cul-de-sac.

Kitchen and bathroom is shared with four other rooms. But my situation definitely affords me a bit more privacy than those of my classmates, who share small rooms, have beds in the tiny living room which the bedrooms open into, etc.

Your idea reminds me of the units in the Nakagin Capsule Tower. But they're probably double the size of my room, at least. Seems people in Japan also have less personal space in domestic life. I lived for a couple months with a friend in a single room. Also stayed briefly with one family (sister, brother, sister's son) who all slept in one room. Not sure that sort of thing would go so harmoniously in some other cultures.

I am fascinated by the cultural characteristics that facilitate people to live in social environments characterized by extreme density and lack of personal space (as well as tolerance for otherwise dystopian urban fabrics).

For example, Tseung Kwan O district (also in Hong Kong):

^Despite its wretched appearance to many Western eyes, my understanding is that the place is fully occupied of gainfully employed people. Some of my former students live in the complex.

I wouldn't mind living in Tseung Kwan O except that I couldn't afford it. Newer buildings, good public transport, good public facilities. I questioned whether Westerners would really find it so "wretched" but then I remembered reading online comments on the photography of Michael Wolf (http://photo-michaelwolf.com/#architecture-of-densitiy/). Does it have to do with individualism? I feel like the uniformity of this type of housing is shocking to some mainly because it's so evident compared to the fact that you don't notice the same thing at ground level in some American suburb with mass-produced house designs.

Or is it about space? I've never been inside a McMansion and really have no idea what people fill them with.

Or maybe people associate the look of these estates with failed public housing projects in the west?

Side note: there is some funny distortion in that photo of the Chungking Mansions. Look at the length of those air conditioners on the upper floors!

[MolsonExport]

^very interesting comments. From my travels in Asia (China, Japan, Korea), these gigantic complexes that appear so dystopian to many Westerners seem to function very well as to their intended purposes (affordable and decent if not cramped housing for working and middle-class households). In the West, a few exceptions aside (perhaps Co-OP city in the Bronx), such equivalent projects have often been disasters (e.g., Pruitt-Igoe in St. Louis), or otherwise areas of very high crime and/or decrepitude (e.g., Jane/Finch [Toronto], St. James Town in Toronto, see below for photo (wikipedia):

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/7f/St_James_Town1.jpg/800px-St_James_Town1.jpg

[dchan]

^ That's because it was called Co-op City, and not Subsidized Public Housing City. :)

I've visited a friend's apartment in Long Island City, just a few blocks from one of the most notorious public housing projects in NYC. His apartment is located in a small 5-6 building apartment complex that largely follows the same design principles as the failed public housing developments do: a big superblock with a cluster of apartment buildings surrounding a central public courtyard area.

But this is no housing project: it is a co-op apartment complex that is largely middle class and kept in immaculate condition. The residents of the complex look comfortable walking around and relaxing in the central public courtyard because they actually feel safe and comfortable. The only reason that a stranger may feel uncomfortable and unsafe walking around this complex is that we're so conditioned to think that such designs are used exclusively in dangerous housing projects that any apartment complex that follows this design automatically generates a Pavlovian response of fear.

Basically, my point here is that the design is a minor part of what makes a neighborhood safe in the overall scheme. Rather, it's the PEOPLE and their background culture that are the major factors behind how safe and well-kept a neighborhood is.

[Minato Ku]

There are some privatly ownded housing project, built for middle class that have become some big failure.
The best exemple is la Forestiere in Clichy sous Bois in Paris suburbs.

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d107/Vincentthomas/Album%205/clichy-sous-bois-la-foresti1260725706.jpg
http://parisbanlieue.blog.lemonde.fr/2009/12/13/carte-postale-de-banlieue-sans-minarets-ni-identite-nationale/

[MolsonExport]

Basically, my point here is that the design is a minor part of what makes a neighborhood safe in the overall scheme. Rather, it's the PEOPLE and their background culture that are the major factors behind how safe and well-kept a neighborhood is.

Indeed, which was also my point earlier.

[MolsonExport]

http://sharii.com/files/2008/11/kwc_4.jpg
sharii.com
This site references this thread on SSP.

[LouisVanDerWright]

Everyone who is interested in this should check out this interesting AMA on Reddit:

http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/13muo9/i_grew_up_in_the_cyberpunkesque_dystopia_called/

[MolsonExport]

^thanks for that treasure of WCK info/photos. I own a copy of "City of Darkness", and I recommend it very highly.

By its peak in the 1990s, the 6.5 acre Kowloon Walled City was home to at least 33,000 people (with estimates of up to 50,000). That’s a population density of at least 3.2 million per square mile. For New York City to get that dense, every man, woman, and child living in Texas would have to move to Manhattan.

To put it another way, think about living in a 1,200 square foot home. Then imagine yourself living with 9 other people. Then imagine that your building is only one unit of a twelve-story building, and every other unit is as full as yours. Then imagine hundreds those buildings crammed together in a space the size of four football fields.

We can’t really imagine it, either.
read more here: http://99percentinvisible.org/

[MolsonExport]

Bronze cast model of WCK in Kowloon Walled City Park
http://i921.photobucket.com/albums/ad56/romanmars/5b5d14e90510b755edb1f109a66ef9ee.jpg
trevor patt

[MolsonExport]

ZwjTXH3BGUM