[Markitect]

Markitect> From what I hear, I believe this one is going to happen. The hotel wants Milwaukee, and the developer is pushing. I also believe the bizjournal has some details incorrect... hopefully we'll hear more soon.

Incorrect details, huh?

I hope it has to do with the number of hotel rooms being too low and the number of condo units being too high. Because with the info that's been reported, that almost seems like a project-killer (i.e. over-saturating the residential market).

Maybe the Business Journal has the numbers swapped, and it's supposed to be 400 hotel rooms and 150 condos...that actually makes sense...


EDIT: I see that Emporis.com has Embassy Suites listed as a hotel tenant for the Ghazi proposal. That's the only place I've ever seen a name associated with the project so far; nothing was ever mentioned in the papers about them. If true, their involvement does make sense, considering: 1) ES is a tenant that's been associated with other Ghazi projects around the country, and 2) ES expressed interest in Milwaukee at the exact same site under a previous proposal (which was about 300 rooms, so perhaps their involvement with this Ghazi proposal is enough to increase the currently-reported 150 rooms to someting higher).

[Twoaday]

Well I don't believe it to be an Embassy Suites and tell me if you think that building says Embassy Suites to you:)

That said I really hope this specific project happens as it could be a really great addition to the area, i.e. type of hotel, design, location, style, new skyscraper, and so on.

[Markitect]

From what I hear, I believe this one is going to happen. The hotel wants Milwaukee, and the developer is pushing. I also believe the bizjournal has some details incorrect... hopefully we'll hear more soon.

Well then, what is it that you've heard? You say "the hotel wants Milwaukee," so who is the hotel? And what information in the Business Journal is incorrect?

[keer5771]

Well then, what is it that you've heard? You say "the hotel wants Milwaukee," so who is the hotel? And what information in the Business Journal is incorrect?

Well, for one, Ghazi isn't building the casino in St. Louis. And it's not called "the Pinnacle", Pinnacle Entertainment is the company building it. The article is rife with errors - that journalist is a hack.

Also, I've never seen Embassy Suites mentioned with a Ghazi project....there aren't any hotel deals on their website, and the only one i've seen is the is the Starwood aloft concept in Charlotte...

there's a four seasons going at the pinnacle project, but that somehow became Embassy Suites in the article...BIG difference.

[Markitect]

Well, for one, Ghazi isn't building the casino in St. Louis. And it's not called "the Pinnacle", Pinnacle Entertainment is the company building it. The article is rife with errors - that journalist is a hack.

Also, I've never seen Embassy Suites mentioned with a Ghazi project....there aren't any hotel deals on their website, and the only one i've seen is the is the Starwood aloft concept in Charlotte...

there's a four seasons going at the pinnacle project, but that somehow became Embassy Suites in the article...BIG difference.

Fair enough. It seems that the reporter got his St. Louis projects mixed up. Ghazi is involved with a large-scale project there...the Bottle District, which is supposed to have a hotel of some kind in it. And the Bottle District is located adjacent to the Pinnacle Entertainment casino/hotel project, which is supposed to include two hotels--a Four Seasons and an existing Embassy Suites.

[Markitect]

From the Journal Sentinel: City panel endorses electric bus system - $300 million Milwaukee Connector project draws speakers both for and against (http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=419297)

It will next move on to consideration from the full Common Council and the mayor. Still has a long way to go before becoming a reality, though.

Milwaukee Connector website (http://www.milwaukeeconnector.com)

[sensei]

Still has a long way to go before becoming a reality, though

Seems like virtually everything proposed in Milwaukee faces an up-hill battle.

[neuhickman79]

Seems like virtually everything proposed in Milwaukee faces an up-hill battle.

TOTALLY!!! The Third Ward looks no different than it ever has and they haven't put up ANY highrises downtown in YEARS!!! :yuck:
(if you couldn't tell, I was being sarcastic!)

Take a look around! The city is CHANGING! Have you seen the Riverwalk lately? Have you seen the Third Ward? This is NOT the Milwaukee I knew when I moved here 2 years ago. You need to get over yourself and quit looking through your crap-colored glasses and see what's really going on!!!!

[CGII]

TOTALLY!!! The Third Ward looks no different than it ever has and they haven't put up ANY highrises downtown in YEARS!!! :yuck:
(if you couldn't tell, I was being sarcastic!)

Take a look around! The city is CHANGING! Have you seen the Riverwalk lately? Have you seen the Third Ward? This is NOT the Milwaukee I knew when I moved here 2 years ago. You need to get over yourself and quit looking through your crap-colored glasses and see what's really going on!!!!
Uh, actually, everything just about does face an intense uphill battle, but you'll notice that many of the projects recently finished and under constructino have overcome them. The 32 floor hotel/condos and Milwaukee connector, however, are much more ambitious projects that I would not be particularily surprised if they either become fulfilled or are scrapped.

[sensei]

TOTALLY!!! The Third Ward looks no different than it ever has and they haven't put up ANY highrises downtown in YEARS!!! :yuck:
(if you couldn't tell, I was being sarcastic!)

Take a look around! The city is CHANGING! Have you seen the Riverwalk lately? Have you seen the Third Ward? This is NOT the Milwaukee I knew when I moved here 2 years ago. You need to get over yourself and quit looking through your crap-colored glasses and see what's really going on!!!!

Here we go again. I should've known I'd get a defensive response out of you. Look into some anger management and/or switch to a high fiber diet. You'd feel better.

[neuhickman79]

Here we go again. I should've known I'd get a defensive response out of you. Look into some anger management and/or switch to a high fiber diet. You'd feel better.

I don't need therapy. I just don't like negativity or naysayers...you're almost as bad as a NIMBY!

[sensei]

Well, I'm sorry if I hurt your feelings for being "negative". Don't like it? Grow some balls.

[Markitect]

OK people...

This place isn't set up for the purpose of slinging personal attacks, so take it somewhere else...private email, private messages, anywhere but here. Or better yet, agree to disagree and move along.

Thank you.

[Skyking]

I see that the Milwaukee JS has finally recognized the proposed Ghazi project across from the Midwest Airlines Center on Wisconsin. I, too, hope that some of the info re condo space vs. hotel rooms is reversed - need more hotel rooms than condos. However, sell a condo and you know it's sold. Build a hotel room and hard to say when it's gonna be filled...Go Gazi! This would be an outstanding, world-class building for Milwaukee. It looks great!

[Skyking]

I see that the Milwaukee JS has finally recognized the proposed Ghazi project across from the Midwest Airlines Center on Wisconsin. I, too, hope that some of the info re condo space vs. hotel rooms is reversed - need more hotel rooms than condos. However, sell a condo and you know it's sold. Build a hotel room and hard to say when it's gonna be filled...Go Gazi! :banana:
This would be an outstanding, world-class building for Milwaukee. It looks great!:

[Markitect]

Renaissant Development Group has secured private financing to build Park Lafayette, and is set to break ground later this summer. The project consists of two 20-story condo towers (147 units in the south tower; 134 units in the north tower) and 10 townhouses, some street-level retail space, and a 446-space underground parking garage.

More details in the Journal Sentinel: Condo towers win funds - East side development to be completed in 2008 (http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=420371)

Also see: Park Lafayette website (http://www.parklafayette.com/)


***

The Department of City Development is recommending the City sell a Downtown surface parking lot to the Ghazi Company, a North Carolina development firm that has proposed a 32-story retail/hotel/condo tower for the site (renderings posted here last week). The lot at W. Wisconsin Avenue and N. 4th Street is directly across from the convention center. Two previous hotel proposals have been made for the site in recent years, but fell through for various reasons.

Under the DCD's recommendation, Ghazi would be given a 60-day purchase option that would allow the firm to prepare a fesability analysis and cost estimates for the proposal.

From the Journal Sentinel: Sale of city land considered - North Carolina company proposes high-rise for lot (http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=420586)


***

New Covenant Housing Corp. recently received federal affordable-housing tax credits which will be used to help finance a mixed-use development in the Sherman Park neighborhood. Boulevard Commons will consist of 22 apartment units and 6000 square feet of retail space on the 4200 block of W. North Avenue. In exchange for the tax credits, New Covenant will provide 20 apartments at below-market rents whcih will be made available only to people earning 60% or less of the local median income. Developers hope to begin construction this fall.

Just next door, New Covenant has plans to convert the former Finney Library into a neighborhood food court. The group has a purchase option for the library building and is in the process of working out lease negotiations. It is located at W. North Avenue and N. Sherman Boulevard.

From the Journal Sentinel: Apartment project gets tax credits - Sherman Park site will include 20 units with below-market rents (http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=418688)

The New Covenant website has a small rendering and some floor plans to view: New Covenant Housing Corporation - Boulevard Commons (http://www.newcovenanthousing.org/properties/finney_library.htm)

[CGII]

Wow. All three are excellent news. Park Lafayette has been the project to watch for a while, nice to see it moving along. The city backing Ghazi's highrise is fantastic, and some good urban renewal in Sherman Park helps bolster the neighbourhoods.

[Twoaday]

Nice review of some major projects from last year:
http://www.wibuilder.com/wb-may-06/top.html

Also todays bizjournal (hard copy) has an article on how Ghazi is to attract a Hard Rock Cafe, House of Blues, or ESPN Zone for its hotel (this is the 4th and wisonsin building).

[ChicagoBruce]

I would have to say that House of Blues may be the most likely as they were part of the Pabst City deal.

I'm not sue if Ghazi would be looking for any TIF funds in this deal, but having House of Blues in there may be the death blow for that. That almost single handedly killed that Pabst plan.

[Twoaday]

I haven't heard of any discussion of a TIF for this project at all and I'd agree on HOB being there most likely choice.

[Skyking]

Does anyone have any updates on the proposed condo tower on Prospect Ave., just north of Kilbourn?

[Markitect]

Does anyone have any updates on the proposed condo tower on Prospect Ave., just north of Kilbourn?

There is no condo tower proposed on Prospect Avenue, just north of Kilbourn.

There are, however, two condo projects proposed on Prospect Avenue further up the street, but they seem to be long-term kind of plans at this point, so there are no real specifics about them at this point.

Mandel owns a vacant lot at Prospect and Ogden where he envisions a condo development. A few different architects had given Mandel some potential designs for the development, but the last time it was mentioned, no final decisions have been made. And Mandel was still looking into the feasability of pursuing the project. In the meantime, they are moving forward with the North End development at the old Pfister & Vogel tannery.

A few blocks up, New Land Enterprises owns the Goll Mansion. They are thinking about tacking a condo tower onto the rear of the historic mansion there. But again, this is still in the very early stages.

[Markitect]

The Journal Sentinel has a series of opinion pieces regarding the Milwaukee Connector Study, which is endorsing a relatively new type of transit vechicle/technology that is sort of a cross between trolleybuses and light rail (an electric-powered guided bus; a rubber-tired vehicle that draws power from overhead wires and is steered by a single rail embedded in reserved lanes on city streets).

Milwaukee cannot afford to lose this chance (http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=421213) - written by Timothy Sheely, president of the Metropolitan Milwaukee Association of Commerce (in favor of Connector)

Six reasons to say 'no' to this plan — yet again (http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=421212) - written by Milwaukee County Execultive Scott Walker (in opposiiton to Connector)

Project lacks imagination and vision (http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=421209) - written by Milwaukee Alderman Robert Bauman, whose distict included a substantial portion of the proposed route (in opposition to Connector)

Here are a few additional links:

Milwaukee Connector project website (http://www.milwaukeeconnector.com)

Bombardier: Guided Light Transit (http://www.bombardier.com/en/1_0/1_2/1_2_2_2_1.jsp) - one manufacturer's website

Lohr Indistries: Translohr (http://www.lohr.fr/transport-public.htm) - the other manufacturer's website

Citytransport.info - New Era High-Tech Buses (http://citytransport.info/Buses03.htm) - webpage describing different transit vehicles/technologies (see sections on "GLT" and "Translohr" for the guided buses being considered for Milwaukee)

City of Milwaukee Common Council Resolution concerning Milwaukee Connector project (http://legistar.milwaukee.gov/detailreport/?key=23338) - various press releases and letters; topic is on agenda for Common Council meeting for May 9

[CGII]

I read those, and while both Sheehy and Bauman have very valid arguments, it seemed to me that Scott Walker was just grasping for whatever he could find to get people to oppose this project. Hurt tourism? Come on...

[Skyking]

The proposed Milwaukee Connector transit system, if built, will become Milwaukee's most absurd white elephant yet. And we, the taxpayers, will end up having to pay for it, because the $300 million price tag will most surely double before the initial phases are even done. Then, tada, more lines will be needed and extended pushing the total cost to well over a billion dollars before you can even say "waste of money!"
If this was a good plan, I wouldn't mind seeing some of my tax money help pay for it. But it isn't. This plan will take money away from the already struggling bus system, and clog our streets and remove parking. Milwaukee was not built around light rail, subways, etc...so why try to force a square peg into a round hole?! This will not work.
Pray that the out-of-touch backers and politicians of this doomed project see the light, and stop pushing for this thing - just because we can get some Federal (our) money for it. Better they find a more useful way to spend it.:koko:

[sensei]

Ditto. The guy on one of the talk radio shows totally rips apart it apart. He makes absolute 100% sense.

[CGII]

Ditto. The guy on one of the talk radio shows totally rips apart it apart. He makes absolute 100% sense.
Let me guess:Mark Belling?
The proposed Milwaukee Connector transit system, if built, will become Milwaukee's most absurd white elephant yet. And we, the taxpayers, will end up having to pay for it, because the $300 million price tag will most surely double before the initial phases are even done. Then, tada, more lines will be needed and extended pushing the total cost to well over a billion dollars before you can even say "waste of money!"
$300 million is what the total cost would be, but federal funding would cover $243 million of that. With $57 million you could build half of the Calatrava.
If this was a good plan, I wouldn't mind seeing some of my tax money help pay for it. But it isn't. This plan will take money away from the already struggling bus system, and clog our streets and remove parking. Milwaukee was not built around light rail, subways, etc...so why try to force a square peg into a round hole?! This will not work.
Actually, Milwaukee was built around an early light rail.
http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/7563/tmsclpm4gd.jpg
And part of the plan is to reduce parking. I don't know if you've been downtown lately, or haven't looked at my map, but parking structures are probably on four of every five blocks. Milwaukee is literally car dependant, and something concerning mass transit needs to be done. And it needs to be done in the next five yeras, or our city will suffer greatly. This is Milwaukee's best and last chance to do something concerning mass transit.
Pray that the out-of-touch backers and politicians of this doomed project see the light, and stop pushing for this thing - just because we can get some Federal (our) money for it. Better they find a more useful way to spend it.:koko:
The better use of money is in light rail, not this rubber wheeled tram thingy, but it would work.

Mind you, here's my parking map.
Recent Buildings/Under Construction
Proposed Buildings
Parking Garages
Buildings Above Parking Garages
Surface Parking
Park East Land
http://img91.imageshack.us/img91/3037/parkingmapmkecopy0ke.jpg
Keep in mind all but two of the proposed buidlings are proposed to replace parking garages.

[sensei]

Yes. And he's generally right on the money most of the time.

[CGII]

Yes. And he's generally right on the money most of the time.
I find he's generally crazy and belligerent, but in the rare case he's right he's on the dime. I remember listening to him when Miller Park was under construction and he was arguing about something petty or other and someone opposing his view calmly talked and stated his evidence and Belling started yelling and hung up the call. He lost a lot of credibility there. :P

But to say that Milwaukee should never build any mass transit because buses are 'good enough' (which is the maing argument in the anti-Corridor case) is absolutely inanely stupid. I won't even get into how unbelieveably ignorant and outright wrong the opinion to just let cars rule Milwaukee is, but the sucess or failure of Milwaukee's housing and business climate in the coming decades will depend very much on the presence or absence of built in mass transit.

Saying the proposed Corridor is bad because of the routes or the trams is one thing, but to say it's bad because it's mass transit is just ineptly moronic.

[sensei]

At least you are right about him being belligerent. He could tone it down a bit.

[Skyking]

That's a great map of downtown parking. Yes, I'd seen it before and found it interesting. I agree that something should be done to stop the proliferation of 3-5-story parking garages downtown, as this eats up prime development space and does nothing aesthetically. Perhaps any new sizeable developments need to insure several floors of parking with their plans, such as the Faison building at Water & Wisconsin.
But I just don't buy that this connector proposal is the last best chance we have. I think light rail, if really, really planned well, would be interesting. But again, this area is - and has not been - dependent on mass transit, with the exception of buses. If you recall, that was one of the arguements against locating Miller Park downtown - no surface area for tailgating (an area staple, naturally) and terrible conjestion without a better system of mass transit available. I wish we weren't as dependent on cars, either - because it drives me crazy to see 7/8 out of 10 cars on the road with just one occupant!
This connector thing, however, is bad for business and bad for the taxpayers. And, if you think it's gonna get done for that low ball $300 million price tag, well...I've got a bridge I'd like to sell you.
The streets that are targeted for the connector are already tight. To jam this thing into these streets seems like a bad idea. If this is to be done right, we should be looking at a light rail system to be developed over the nexy 10-15 years with links from Port Washington, Waukesha and Kenosha --- in other words, extending the Metra (a great ride!) from Kenosha to Milwaukee and similar tracks from the other two points. This type of transit could masses of move people, and I believe they would use it. I would.

[MequonWI]

my money is on nothing being built, the money given to us by the federal government evaporating, and Milwaukee continuing to proclaim its "urban renaissance." Sorry to sound pessimistic but looking at Milwaukee politics from a distance here, makes my head want to explode. While bickering to find funding for any sort of new mass transit, the Marquette Interchange continues to be rebuilt at the mind-boggling cost of $810 million. At least with the Big Dig in Boston, the government mandated new additions to the T, while no attempt was even made in Milwaukee.

[CGII]

That's a great map of downtown parking. Yes, I'd seen it before and found it interesting. I agree that something should be done to stop the proliferation of 3-5-story parking garages downtown, as this eats up prime development space and does nothing aesthetically. Perhaps any new sizeable developments need to insure several floors of parking with their plans, such as the Faison building at Water & Wisconsin.
It already is. Parking, via zoning ordinances, needs to be included with all new majour developements. Some are better at this than others:Cathedral Place has a beautiful parking garage attached to it, Kilbourn Tower built four floors of parking in the basement and under Kilbourn Ave., and the Calatrava has a beautifully sculpted and tucked away garage itself. Some, like the 60's and 70's garages along Michigan Ave. in Westown, make me want to vomit.

But I just don't buy that this connector proposal is the last best chance we have. I think light rail, if really, really planned well, would be interesting. But again, this area is - and has not been - dependent on mass transit, with the exception of buses. If you recall, that was one of the arguements against locating Miller Park downtown - no surface area for tailgating (an area staple, naturally) and terrible conjestion without a better system of mass transit available. I wish we weren't as dependent on cars, either - because it drives me crazy to see 7/8 out of 10 cars on the road with just one occupant!
Absolutely. It seems 17 years still isn't long enough to get proper route planning...
This connector thing, however, is bad for business and bad for the taxpayers. And, if you think it's gonna get done for that low ball $300 million price tag, well...I've got a bridge I'd like to sell you.
Even though the Connector isn't near perfect, it still would be great for the city. I'mnot sure myself whether it would be better to settle for the currently proposed system, which, although mediocre, would be more likely than scrapping it and shooting for the much more desirable but much less likely light rail. I don't think it would be fair to scrap GLT if light rail has no chance of existence.
The streets that are targeted for the connector are already tight. To jam this thing into these streets seems like a bad idea.
Putting these into their own lanes would likely streamline the street, if you will, and use the space more effieciently than erratic curbisde parking. All the people that whine about lack of parking can just be pointed in the direction of the nearest garage/surface lot, which is never too far away.
If this is to be done right, we should be looking at a light rail system to be developed over the nexy 10-15 years with links from Port Washington, Waukesha and Kenosha --- in other words, extending the Metra (a great ride!) from Kenosha to Milwaukee and similar tracks from the other two points. This type of transit could masses of move people, and I believe they would use it. I would.
Commuter rail, ie Metra, and mass transit, ie the Connector, are two different things that can work beautifully together. It seems a lot of our moronic alderman and common councilmen confuse the two. Replacing a Metra extension with the Connector would be silly, as would vice versa. Just imagine, taking a bus to the nearest light rail line where you can head over to the train station and hop a train to Chicago without ever touching a car. Those two things can coexist peacefully and with greater benefit. The efficiency of either one is increased when combined with the other.
By the way, the plans for routes to suburbs are intended to be extended once built. The reason they aren't included initially is because it would scare the gov't with its ambition and price tag. Once the system proves sucessful, those higher speed suburban lines to Waukesha, Port Washington and Racine will likely get built.
my money is on nothing being built, the money given to us by the federal government evaporating, and Milwaukee continuing to proclaim its "urban renaissance." Sorry to sound pessimistic but looking at Milwaukee politics from a distance here, makes my head want to explode. While bickering to find funding for any sort of new mass transit, the Marquette Interchange continues to be rebuilt at the mind-boggling cost of $810 million. At least with the Big Dig in Boston, the government mandated new additions to the T, while no attempt was even made in Milwaukee.
Sadly, true, the problem being our gov't thinking that mass transit is just a silly waste of time that would never work in Milwaukee because we're vastly different from the other majour cities with hugely successful and popular rail mass transit networks.

[sensei]

Looks like this Connector fiaso is going to go through.

[CGII]

Looks like this Connector fiaso is going to go through.
I missed it. What was the vote?

I still can't say I'm either happy or sad. Sure, it's good, but it could've been sooooo much better done.

EDIT:
JSOnline has an early report:
TUESDAY, May 9, 2006, 12:58 p.m.
By Larry Sandler

Council backs electric bus system
A $300 million guided electric bus system won the Common Council's endorsement today, but not without an acrimonious debate over a last-minute parliamentary maneuver.

The council voted 9-6 to support moving into preliminary engineering on the Milwaukee Connector system, which would link downtown to the University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, Miller Park and the north side with rail-guided buses powered by overhead wires. That action now heads to the desk of Mayor Tom Barrett, who has not said whether he will sign it.

If Barrett signs the measure, or lets it take effect without its signature, it would order the city's representative on the project's four-member steering committee to support continued action on the guided bus system. Two of the other organizations represented on the panel, the Wisconsin Center District and the Metropolitan Milwaukee Association of Commerce, already back the concept.

The County Board has not endorsed guided buses, but has said only that the Milwaukee County Transit System should operate whatever system the connector study produces. County Executive Scott Walker has said he is likely to veto that measure, which passed with enough votes to override a veto.

Even if the project moves forward, it would be years before anything is built, and supporters would need further action from various government bodies for construction to start.

Voting for the guided bus measure today were Common Council President Willie Hines and Aldermen Mike D'Amato, Joe Davis, Ashanti Hamilton, Michael McGee, Michael Murphy, Jim Witkowiak, Terry Witkowski and T. Anthony Zielinski. Opposed were Aldermen Bob Bauman, Jim Bohl, Bob Donovan, Joe Dudzik, Robert Puente and Willie Wade.

Immediately after the vote, Bauman sought to change his vote from "no" to "yes." That would have allowed him to seek reconsideration and he would have needed only three votes to delay action until the council's May 31 meeting.

But Hines refused to let him change his vote, saying he did not seek recognition before the vote total was announced, as council rules require. Bohl challenged Hines' ruling, saying "the honor of this body" was at stake, prompting Hines to retort, "Don't question my integrity." City Clerk Ron Leonhardt said the ruling could not be challenged.

Bauman said he was steam-rolled because, "The special interests in this community want to ram this through."
Very interesting that Bauman changed (or tried to) his vote to yes.

[Markitect]

Very interesting that Bauman changed (or tried to) his vote to yes.

He didn't want to change his vote to "yes" because he changed his mind and supports the Connector proposal. He wanted to change his vote to "yes" because the change would allow him to call a vote to delay the approval until the council’s next meeting at the end of May. It would’ve required only three votes to approve the delay--and any of those three votes would have likely come from the six aldermen who were not in favor of the Connector. That delay would have allowed for more time so more information could be presented about the Connector study and the transit options being considered, since the info the Common Council has been supplied with so far has been pretty vague and lacking details.

But that political maneuver was shot down.

Reagardless, today's vote was more of a formality than anything else. It was a vote about saying "yeah, we support moving the Connector on to the next phase of study" rather than "yeah, let's build it!"

So nothing has been given the green light at this point.

[CGII]

But that political maneuver was shot down.

Reagardless, today's vote was more of a formality than anything else. It was a vote about saying "yeah, we support moving the Connector on to the next phase of study" rather than "yeah, let's build it!"

So nothing has been given the green light at this point.
That's good. I realized today that since this thing is rubber wheeled it would need to follow paved roads all the way out to Waukesha or Port Washington, which is ridiculously stupid, wheras Light Rail could just follow the old interurban route out to Waukesha on rail rather than road.

[Markitect]

Mayor Barrett has vetoed yesterday's Common Council resolution to move forward on preliminary engineering for an electric guided bus system.

Wispolitics.com has a copy of Barrett's letter to the Common Council (http://wispolitics.com/index.iml?Article=61908) in which he states his reasons for the veto.

[Skyking]

Here's to you, Mayor Barrett! :cheers:
Thanks for having the smarts to start the derailment (sorry, had to use it) process of the ill-fated Milwaukee Connector fiasco. Let's do this transit thing right...if we're going to do it at all.

[CGII]

That's good, he states it in a way that suggests that a redesign will undergo consideration.

By the way, the hybrid bus idea is totally stupid, unless that plan was to just replace the old buses with these.

[Markitect]

By the way, the hybrid bus idea is totally stupid, unless that plan was to just replace the old buses with these.

No, they wouldn't quite be mere replacements. They would have also used dedicated lanes on the same routes as were proposed for the electeic guided buses. Basically the only difference between the two alternatives was the vehicle (hybrid vs guided bus) and the costs associated with them (hybrids being almost half as much as the guided bus).

[Markitect]

double post...

[CGII]

No, they wouldn't quite be mere replacements. They would have also used dedicated lanes on the same routes as were proposed for the electeic guided buses. Basically the only difference between the two alternatives was the vehicle (hybrid vs guided bus) and the costs associated with them (hybrids being almost half as much as the guided bus).
That's what I'm saying. The current plan just calls for the hybrid busses to follow the Connector lines in reserved lanes, which is just ludicrous.

[Eriol]

Has anyone heard anything about the old Hotel Wisconsin on Third Street? It closed in 2003 and supposedly was going to be redeveloped a year later, but I find nothing about it.

[Twoaday]

I just walked through the 5th ward over near the Social and noticed the entire block was fenced up indicating some new construction was coming. Here's the link for it:
http://www.continuumarchitects.com/htmdocs/in_the_works/index.php?page=Kramer+Lifestyle+Center&id=4

[CGII]

That looks great!


A bit off topic, but taking the Hiawatha down to Chicago last week took me over the streets of Walker's Point and really reminded me that that neighbourhood will be unbelievably cool and urban once its renaissance is finished. It also resparked my anger for the stupid developer that razed all the buildings on the Solvay coke site and ran out of money.

[Markitect]

RSC & Associates, which has purchase options on two blocks in the Park East corridor, has revised the proposals it announced last year. The revisions shift more emphasis onto retail (potentially urban big boxes), introduce two small hotels(due to growing interest in Downtown), and a shift to higher-end rental units, rather than condos, for some residential units (due to increasing mortgage interest rates).

The new plan for the eastern block (bounded by N. Milwaukee, N. Jefferson and E. Lyon Streets and E. Ogden Avenue) now includes:

* a 140-room upscale botique hotel
* 110 apartments
* 12 condo townhouses
* 70,000 square feet of retail space

The new plan for the western block (bounded by N. Broadway, N. Milwaukee, N. Water Streets, and E. Ogden Avenue) now includes:

* a 140-room middle-market hotel
* 270 condos
* 120,000 square feet for large retail tenants (urban big boxes)
* 35,000 square feet for smaller retail, restaurants, nightclubs, etc.

Both projects, collectively dubbed "Park East Square," are being marketed by RSC at the International Council of Shopping Centers convention in Las Vegas this week. Although there are no hotel operators or retailers signed on yet, some names have been mentioned as rumored possibilities: Target, Kohl's, and Dick's Sporting Goods, all of which currently have no presence anywhere near the Downtown area.

RSC will update its progress to the County Board's Committee on Economic and Community Development next month.

More details in the Journal Sentinel article: Developers add two hotels to Park East project - Retail chains show interest in area (http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=426079)

Also more on the RSC & Associate's Park East webpage. (http://www.rscrealestate.com/mixedUse_parkeast.html)


Here's a refresher on what these proposals looked like when originally announced last summer. The developers have been working with the City on making some design changes since then...

http://www.dailyreporter.com/images/editorialImages/rendering-061405.jpg
^ The eastern block of Park East Square.

http://www.dailyreporter.com/images/editorialImages/renderingpg1-092305.jpg

http://www.dailyreporter.com/images/editorialImages/renderingpg3-092305.jpg
^ The western block of Park East Square.

[CGII]

Nice to see this seemingly shelfed proposal get a shot in the arm, though I have to say that the East block is some poorly executed deconstructivism.

[Markitect]

Just because you don't hear about a project for awhile doesn't mean progress isn't being made. There's alot that goes on behind the scenes to get all of the necessary approvals and marketing to attract enough tenants in order to convince the financiers to provide funding to actually build the project. Developments go though a complex process on their journeys from being a concept on paper to a ribbon cutting. It does not happen over night. Especially not for a redevelopment effort as large as the Park East corridor.

This particular proposal--nor any of the other Park East proposals--in no way have been shelved.

[seamus]

Here's a rendering I did that shows the skyline from the lake upon completion of the University Club Tower...
and off-topic if anyone can help me on a different thread I just started (http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=106668), I shall forever be thankful...
http://i.pbase.com/o4/35/413235/1/60867782.MYMILWAUKEERENDERsm.jpg

[MequonWI]

Could someone tell me what the cranes are building in the 3rd ward? It looks like a sizeable project. In fact, could we have a comprehensive list of all the things u/c right now? It's been a while since Ive been home and Im very impressed.

On a sidenote, the design of the parking structure abutting I-43 at Bayshore is horrendous...even for a parking garage. It would have been so so so much nicer had they built it underground, and the whole project is just monstrous...thats all

[Skyking]

[QUOTE=MequonWI]Could someone tell me what the cranes are building in the 3rd ward? It looks like a sizeable project. In fact, could we have a comprehensive list of all the things u/c right now? It's been a while since Ive been home and Im very impressed.

That's an 80-story, mixed-use building to include retail, office, condos and a revolving restaurant at the top shaped like a beer mug...boy, guess you haven't been home in a while!
Well, not quite. Without knowing where you're referring to, it could be the (10-story) condo project along the river -- or supports for the new part of the Marquette Interchange project.

[CGII]

It's First Place on the River, being built on the skeleton of hte old Terminal Buildings. It'll be 12 storeys and absolutely MASSIVe (in a good way, though).

[Twoaday]

Additionally across the river from the first place project another project has put up its tower crane so we should see something going up there soon.

Further across the street from First Place the area around the Social is fenced and it appears work is underway for the small office building and soon the apartments as well.

And finally on the same side of water near First Place another loft building is going up.

Man what a great neighborhood that's going to be!

[seamus]

First Place renderings alongside some pics I took on an April visit:
http://i.pbase.com/o4/35/413235/1/61140270.1STPLACE0406.jpg
http://i.pbase.com/o4/35/413235/1/61140273.1STPLACE0406b.jpg

and River Renaissance...
http://i.pbase.com/o4/35/413235/1/61141900.RR0406.jpg

[Markitect]

A ground breaking cermeony was held today at the site of the future Harley-Davidson Museum. Such ceremonies are usually carried out with a line-up of dignitaries scooping up clumps of dirt with gold- or silver-colored shovels. That wasn't the case for Harley, which decided to kick up some dust with an H-D Sportster driven by a dirt track racer instead.

The $95 million motorcycle museum is scheduled to open in Summer 2008, and will also feature the company archives, a restaurant/cafe, gift shop, indoor and outdoor meeting/event space, and a riverwalk. Longer-range plans call for new company office to be built on the site sometime in the future.

More in this article from the Journal Sentinel: Groundbreaking, Harley-style - The dirt flies at ceremony to launch construction of motorcycle museum (http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=430690)

Also more at the Harley-Davidson Museum website. (http://www.h-dmuseum.com)


***

Over by the Lakefront, work continues on Discovery World at Pier Wisconsin. The new science and technology museum will officially open its doors to the public on September 9. However, children and adults who have pre-registered for summer camp programs and special classes will get a sneak peak over the next three months as several multi-million-dollar exhibits are being installed.

More in the Journal Sentinel: Welcome to class, pardon our dust - New Discovery World ready for students (http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=430707)

Also be sure to check out the Discovery World at Pier Wisconsin website. (http://www.discoveryworld.org)


***

The developers working on transforming the former Pabst Brewery into a mixed-use neighborhood have updated the website for their project, simply (and lamely) dubbed "The Brewery." The website includes some conceptual site plans and building descriptions, as well as a photo tour of the brewery complex.

The Brewery (http://www.pabstproject.com)

[Skyking]

Wow, how quiet is it out there?! No reports for almost two weeks?!:shrug:
Any new word on the Ghazi project? How 'bout the 18-story hotel near the Milwaukee Market in Third Ward?
Anything?

[Eriol]

I was down there yesterday and it really is happening.


Plans for former hotel revived Hotel Wisconsin redevelopment to move forward
By Tom Daykin
Staff

Source:
Milwaukee Journal Sentinel
Wednesday,April 27, 2005
Edition: Final, Section: D Business, Page 01




Plans to redevelop downtown Milwaukee’s former Hotel Wisconsin are moving forward despite a change in general contractors on the project, an attorney for the property owners said Tuesday.

Wisconsin Hotel Co., the Aventura, Fla., investors group that owns the 12-story building at 720 N. Old World 3rd St., has secured financing to revive the delayed development, attorney Donald Murn said.

The investors group is planning to hire Voss Jorgensen Schueler Co. in Waukesha as the new general contractor and also has hired a firm to complete the removal of asbestos from the building, Murn said.

"It’ll get done," Murn said about the project.

Delays started last year when problems arose with asbestos removal.

In January, the state Department of Natural Resources notified the building’s owner of violations of agency regulations. Those violations happened when materials containing asbestos were improperly removed from the building in October, the agency said.

Hotel Wisconsin Co. last week sued its former general contractor, Chicago-based K2 Architects Inc. The lawsuit also names two subcontractors: Big Guy Services Inc. of Caledonia and Affordable Environmental Technologies Inc. of Mequon.

The lawsuit says K2 and the subcontractors failed to follow proper asbestos disposal techniques, which caused asbestos particles to spread throughout the building.

As a result, the property owner is facing "a substantial cleanup job," as well as delays in the renovation plans, the lawsuit says.

Philip Kupritz, who runs K2, didn’t return a telephone call Tuesday seeking comment on the lawsuit.

David Muhar of Big Guy Services couldn’t be reached for comment. Jerry Bagley of Affordable Environmental said his firm was not responsible for any of the problems that occurred. He declined to comment further.

Wisconsin Hotel Co. is facing additional costs of $500,000 to $1 million because of the problems, Murn said.

The hotel’s owners said in December 2003 that the hotel would be converted into 70 housing units, along with upper level offices and street-level commercial space. One of the owners, Oscar Behncke, said the project would cost $12 million.

To prepare for the conversion, the hotel’s 45 long-term residents, along with three businesses on the street level, were evicted.

The Hotel Wisconsin opened in 1913 and was among the city’s oldest hotels when it closed.

Wisconsin Hotel Co. bought the hotel in 1997. The owners’ earlier plans to completely renovate the hotel and reopen it under a new name never occurred.

Copyright 2005, Journal Sentinel Inc. All rights reserved. (Note: This notice does not apply to those news items already copyrighted and received through wire services or other media.)

[sensei]

I know Milwaukee is no Chicago (by any stretch of the imagination), but I just read that Chicago has had no less than 40 towers built in their downtown that were over 50 stories since 2000.
And and I was lead to believe Milwaukee's downtown was booming~!

[Tom In Chicago]

With all due respect, Milwaukee's downtown IS booming. . . relatively speaking of course. . .

[Wheelingman04]

I love Milwaukee. It is a very underrated city. Everyone should try to visit this city.

[Eriol]

Chicago and Milwaukee are completely different. I really like Chicago. I just spent four hours walking all over downtown today.

But I love Milwaukee and it is doing a lot of nice things right now. The View from Pier Wisconsin is excellent. And the RiverWalk is most tranquil.

[romell327]

I guess I don't see why you would compare Milwaukee to Chicago anyway. Chicago is a large major world city. Milwaukee is a large city in the US. Believe me, I have lived in Milwaukee all my life and I have always had this thing against Chicago. It was not until I joined this forum and learned to appreciate skycrapers and cities for their beauty that I have found a HUGE appreciation having Chicago to our south. What happens in Chicago happens on a scale that is unimaginable in Milwaukee. But still, what is happening in Milwaukee is something that is helping it to grow and prosper.

[rgolch]

^^agreed.

But if nashville can pull of a 1000+ proposal, I think milwaukee (and its forumers) should start to expect more. Something greater than 800 ft would really hit the spot.

[CGII]

I would love for more, but I don't think it's 'appropriate' to expect a 1,ooo footer. Our markets are slowing down and, worst case scenario, we have thousands of new condos with no one to buy them, which some analysts are expecting.
But this argument will just lead me into my political agenda of light rail transportation, better funded parks and education, etc. ;)

[romell327]

If the bedrock was closer to the surface and and we did not have to rely on putting so many pilings into the ground at such deep levels, something like that would have happened many years ago. Suffice it to say, because the glaciers, as they moved across our continent, pushed most of it up into huge piles under illinois and where chicago currently stands, we rely on wood pilings that depend entirely up on the water table to keep them fit and sound. Whenever the water tables lowers, the pilings begin to dry out and thier integrity gets compromised and they begin to snap like twigs. Not good for keeping a building standing tall.

[Eriol]

Suit blames tunnel for sinking buildings
MMSD rejects claims by owners downtown

By MARIE ROHD
mrohde@journalsentinel.com
Posted: July 4, 2006

Downtown is sinking, and that's causing widespread property damage, according to a lawsuit poised to go to a jury trial next week.

The building owners blame the leaky deep-tunnel system, the keystone of the Milwaukee Metropolitan Sewerage District's $3 billion public works project aimed at cleaning up local waterways.

District lawyers call the allegations innuendo and half-truths.

"The amended complaint vacillates between a laundry list of 'second guesses' about what the district should have built and vicious screed, bordering on scurrilous, that would have the reader believe the district and its consultants were frauds and charlatans preying upon over-matched agencies that could do little but bow to the district's will," the district argued in a pre-trial motion.

Although the scope of the trial is very narrow - the dispute focuses strictly on the five buildings that make up Boston Store between Old World 3rd St. and N. 4th St. on W. Wisconsin Ave. - the verdict could influence whether owners of other downtown Milwaukee buildings suffering from similar symptoms decide to seek similar solutions.

The district has paid damages in more than 20 similar claims, the most recent to settle a lawsuit for $204,000 for damage to the Milwaukee Auditorium, now known as the Milwaukee Theatre.

Some 80 expert witnesses are expected to be called for the trial, which could last up to six weeks.

The district denies responsibility for the Boston Store damage but adds that if such a claim were valid, it should have been filed long ago and the statute of limitations has expired. The district also says that if the cause of the damage was the tunnel, the contractors who performed the work are responsible.

Boston Store building owners counter that the district has a "history of irresponsible conduct" that includes misrepresentation of facts and failing to alert property owners of problems the district knew existed. They say the district avoided fixing the problems to hold down costs. The district, they say, also misled the public on the both the short-term and long-term effects of the tunnel work on the groundwater.

The owners of the Boston Store building are asking for $11 million in damages and are demanding that the district either line the tunnel system with a foot of concrete - something that would cost tens of millions of dollars - or inject water into soil above the tunnel, something that over time would be at least as expensive, if not more.

The lawsuit pits the sewerage district, which serves 29 communities in the region, against Wispark LLC, a subsidiary of Wisconsin Energy Corp., the owner of the building that anchors the west end of the Shops of Grand Avenue mall. Boston Store, the largest tenant in the building, is owned by Bon-Ton Stores, based in York, Pa.

The suit is not class action. Milwaukee County Circuit Judge Jeffrey Kremers has ruled that evidence of damage to the buildings can be argued before the jury. He also ruled that construction and design of the tunnel system is not in question - the district's operation and maintenance are the issue.

Fearing pre-trial publicity, Kremers cautioned both sides to refrain from talking to the media regarding the case, filed four years ago. A review of court documents provided a glimpse of what is at stake.

The building owners contend that water leaks into the tunnel system at a rate 3 1/2 times more than is allowed under the state administrative code regulations for sewers; the district says that the tunnel is no ordinary sewer and that the code does not apply. The district also asserts that as a governmental body it is legally immune from damage resulting from the operation of the tunnel.

The building owners also assert that the groundwater leaking into the tunnel has significantly lowered the water table, which has caused the ground to compress, causing structural damage. The district does not deny the drop in the level of the groundwater, but it blames the lower level of the water in nearby Lake Michigan and rivers.

The district agreed to build the deep-tunnel project, completed in 1993, as part of federal and state lawsuits that contended frequent dumping of untreated sewage into the lake and area waterways were a violation of the Clean Water Act and state regulations.

The tunnel is as deep as 300 feet below the surface and was blasted or drilled through bedrock. The bedrock is between two aquifers, or underground bodies of water.

The downtown Boston Store is a series of five buildings constructed between 1900 and 1920 that are now connected. Like many older downtown buildings, they were constructed on marshy land and supported by wood pilings. As long as the wood pilings are wet, the pilings have an indefinite life; if they dry out, they begin to rot and pose a danger to the structural integrity of the building they support. The district said the owners of the Boston Store building had replaced more than 42% of its rotted pilings before the tunnel was built.

The sewerage district asserts that the pilings were not bolstered at the time of additions and that the building was not properly maintained.

The building owners contend that the district ignored its own consultants and did not warn building owners of the danger and discontinued the use of recharge wells that injected water into the aquifer. The owners also contend that the danger to buildings was so great that the district and its consultants "at one time devoted significant time to considering the propriety of rebuilding every foundation in downtown Milwaukee to eliminate the risk of damage to the foundations" caused by the tunnel system.

Editor's note: The Journal Sentinel property is among those on a list of properties that might have been affected by the tunnel but is not a part of the lawsuit.



From the July 5, 2006 editions of the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel

[CGII]

If the bedrock was closer to the surface and and we did not have to rely on putting so many pilings into the ground at such deep levels, something like that would have happened many years ago. Suffice it to say, because the glaciers, as they moved across our continent, pushed most of it up into huge piles under illinois and where chicago currently stands, we rely on wood pilings that depend entirely up on the water table to keep them fit and sound. Whenever the water tables lowers, the pilings begin to dry out and thier integrity gets compromised and they begin to snap like twigs. Not good for keeping a building standing tall.
I did not know that bedrock was so deep here, but I can tell you the shrinking water table is a problem for the Northwestern Mutual building. From what I know, the lowering water table and slowly drying spring underneath the building now necessetates human done wetting of the pilings underneath the building.

[Markitect]

Most of what is today Downtown Milwaukee was built upon rather marshy land that was drained, filled in with dirt, sand, debris, and whatever else could be found to make dry land on top of which to build. As a result, the underground conditions are not quite ideal for erecting large, heavy, tall buildings. Of course, it is not impossible, but the construction techniques necessary for building skyscrapers on such land adds to the cost of building a building, especially buildings that are tall. They require special foundation work and many pilings which much be driven into the ground, driven through the top layers of fill, and through the softer ground of the burried marshland in order to reach rock stable enough to support the weight of tall buildings. Early skyscrapers used wooden timbers for piles, and are subject to the threat of those water table/rotting issues. Construction technology has changed since the early skyscraper days, and now piles are made of steel or concrete; they can't rot, but they still increase the construction costs.

This is why many skyscrapers in Downtown Milwaukee are not built around a central core, because that's where the lowlands are, where the marshes used to be. True, there are a few exceptions, but most Downtown skyscrapers are built a few blocks outside the river valley, uphill from those lowlands, where underground conditions are more solid and stable.

[romell327]

Totally forgot about the marshy swamp that downtown used to be. I just get tired of people ragging on the city. So many good things going on. One of the newest is my icon, the new Pier Wisconsin project with the Discovery World Museum that will be located there.

[CGII]

Here's an article on two proposals for a Park East plot, and at the bottom attached I have some GREAT news...

---
Smaller Park East plan finding favor
County panel sees it as community friendly
By TOM DAYKIN
tdaykin@journalsentinel.com
Posted: July 17, 2006
One downtown Milwaukee development proposal - call it Plan A - would generate $2 million in annual property tax revenue, create over 500 construction jobs and involve a national firm that has developed luxury hotels in Los Angeles and other major cities.

A competing proposal - Plan B - would provide a much smaller tax benefit, fewer construction jobs and is offered by a local company known mainly for operating gas stations and convenience stores. In fact, a gas station/convenience store/car wash is a key part of its plan.

Members of a County Board committee, reviewing both proposals at a Monday meeting, seemed to lean toward Plan B.

The Committee on Economic and Community Development held off making a recommendation to the full board. The committee might meet next week in a special session to make its recommendation.

But committee members had some tough questions for Ruvin Development Inc., author of Plan A, and some kind words for Rana Enterprises, the firm behind Plan B.

Ruvin wants to buy a county-owned parcel, bordered by N. Old World 3rd St., N. 4th St., W. Juneau Ave. and W. McKinley Ave., and create a $104 million mixed-use development. The Ruvin project would feature a 175-room hotel, 70 condos, 55,000 square feet of offices, 31,000 square feet of retail space and a 330-car parking structure.

Rana wants to build a $34 million development on the same parcel. Rana's plans call for a 202-room hotel, a gas station/convenience store, 14,000 square feet of offices, 9,000 square feet of additional retail space and a 400-car parking structure.

The site is part of 16 acres made available for development when the former Park East Freeway stub was demolished. The block is empty except for the Sydney Hih building, which Ruvin Development bought last year with plans of incorporating it into the development. The Ruvin project also would include the former Gipfel Brewery, which Ruvin would move to the development site from 423-427 W. Juneau Ave.

An internal county review panel recommended selling the parcel to Ruvin.

Ruvin's proposal would generate annual property taxes of just over $2.02 million compared with roughly $626,000 that Rana's development would generate each year, according to estimates from county development officials. Ruvin would create 500 construction jobs while Rana would create 137 construction jobs.

Also, Ruvin offered to buy the parcel for $2.9 million compared with $2.8 million offered by Rana.

Finally, Rana's president, C.A. Rana, told the committee he has experience in the hotel industry. His Milwaukee company is mainly an operator of gas stations/convenience stores.

Rana later said in an interview that he worked for seven years as a project director with American Heritage Group, developing medium-tier hotels, such as Holiday Inn Express, in Canada.

Ruvin's projects include the $35 million conversion of the 169-unit Blatz Apartments, 270 E. Highland Ave., into condos. And Ruvin has a national development partner lined up for this latest project: Dallas-based Gatehouse Capital, which has developed luxury hotels in Los Angeles, San Diego and Dallas.

However, Rana is vowing to provide a higher percentage of construction contracts to minority-owned firms. Also, Rana pledged to donate 2% of the project's annual operating profit to the county to help with its efforts to develop affordable housing.

Those points appeared to resonate with some committee members. Most of their questions dealt with plans for minority hiring in connection with the projects.

Ruvin's goal is to provide 27% of the project's construction contracts to so-called disadvantaged-business enterprises. Rana would provide 35% of the project's construction work to those types of businesses.

Supervisor Toni Clark said Ruvin's work force diversity goals seemed "kind of fluffy," and said she wanted strong minority hiring goals.

Also, Supervisor Peggy West said she and other committee members had reservations about Ruvin's hiring of Carla Cross as its disadvantaged-business coordinator. West said Cross had opposed the County Board's creation of minority hiring goals in connection with the sale of former Park East Freeway parcels.

"It seems very forced to have someone on your team who doesn't believe in the goals," West said.

West later complimented Rana for creating a "very community friendly" development plan, including plans for the gas station. She noted that Ruvin's plans would include condos selling for an average of $450,000, saying, "I don't know who in Milwaukee County can afford that."

---
There is a rendering and editorial of the Ruvin project in Wednesday's Journal Sentinel. The Ruvin project is a well designed tower with alternating stainless steel and glass panels that exchange sizes as they near the top. It's very Jean Nouvel-esque.

The editorial pretty much states my disgust with the committee. They favoured a big parking garage with little retail, little hotel space, and a convience store to a promising hotel/residential/office/retail tower with unique design. Peggy West was even so ignorant as to state that nobody can afford 450k condos in the city. But here's the cool part:

I walked back from lunch to work at Kubala Washatko Architects in Cedarburg, and apparently one of the guys rallied everyone to send an email to Peggy West and the rest of the board about how there is absolutely no reason whatsoever to prefer a bland, low budget, low benefit gas station project to a gleaming, economy boosting hotel and mixed use tower. Shortly after, we recieved plenty of emails from members of the committee who are deciding to change their opinion on the project and being favouring the Ruvin project. Peggy West even sent one, but stated blatantly (and seemingly arrogantly) that she still is in support of the Rana project. From here we can only hope the imaginative Ruvin project is further supported.

[Markitect]

A ceremonial groundbreaking was held yesterday for the first project in the Park East corridor. The Flatiron is a mixed-use project that will have 38 condos, 2800 square feet of street level retail space, a small underground parking garage, and a rain garden green roof.

Meanwhile in the rest of the Park East corridor, other developers continue fleshing out designs, marketing to potential tenants, and work on obtaining all the necessary approvals and financing to get their own proposals into the construction stage. So rest assured, while there aren't shovels in the ground, there's lots work being done behind the scenes.

http://graphics.jsonline.com/graphics/bym/img/jul06/parkeast_072106_big.jpg
^ A rendering of The Flatiron, now under construction.

http://graphics.jsonline.com/graphics/bym/img/jul06/pink_072106_big.jpg
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y73/somberwinter/schmaling.jpg
^ Renderings and models of the aforementioned Park East proposal by Ruvin Development. It would incorporate a new mixed-use high rise into the historic Sydney Hih building already on that block, plus the historic Gipfel building which would be relocated to this block from its original site across the street.

http://graphics.jsonline.com/graphics/bym/img/jul06/parkeast_aerial_072106_big.jpg
^ This aerial view of the Park East corridor looks west, along the northern edge of Downtown Milwaukee. The swath of empty land was created when the underutilized elevated Park East Freeway spur was demolished to make room for redevelopment on former freeway land, as well as on adjacent on surface lots and in adjacent buildings.

More in the Journal Sentinel: Park East breaks ground -The Flatiron is first building under construction on former freeway stub (http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=474250)

Also, more on the Department of City Development's Park East website (http://www.mkedcd.org/parkeast).

[Skyking]

Well, here we go again. Jim Metz is planning to construct a 65-unit condo project on Commerce St., another in a long line of underwhelming condo projects in Milwaukee. No offense, but we've got a million of these insignificant condo projects slapped together in the last few years. While they attract people Downtown, these fairly uninspired developments undermine -- and possibly kill -- any major projects that could add some clout to the skyline...ie. The proposed 32-story Gahzi project on Wisconsin Ave., the sort-of-proposed 40-something-story Lake Pointe Tower project next to the Bank One tower, etc, etc, etc.
I blame the City of Milwaukee "leaders" for not having a plan, other than allowing helter skelter building of smallish condo projects with 8,000 sq. ft of retail and six or seven hotel rooms and a six and a half table restaurant...it just goes on and on and on...
Is it me, or are there way too many of these crummy, small developments?
It is really hard to get too excited about most of these. Sorry.:yuck:

[Eriol]

What else would you do with that space? I see the entire river from North Avenue to the harbor being developed just that way. The River Tower would have been cool, but it got beat by the others. Maybe it will get done eventually, but in the meantime people will build what they can get financing for. There isn't much space left along the river anyway.

[Avian001]

...From what I know, the lowering water table and slowly drying spring underneath the building now necessetates human done wetting of the pilings underneath the building.

Does that mean once a month everyone in the city comes downtown and pees on the buildings? :)

[Markitect]

A new and improved recreational trail on Milwaukee's East Side is now officially open. Thanks to the aid of public and private money, a formerly muddy and overgrown informal pathway along the eastern bank of the Milwaukee River is now a better manicured, official public trail.

The East Bak Trail runs about 1.5 miles between Caesar's Park and Riverside Park. It offers the unusual sense of natural open wilderness right in the midst of a city, so it is a great spot for urban fishing and bird watching.

At Caesar's Park, a relatively new pedestrain bridge across the river was built on the remants of the former North Avenue Dam, thereby connecting the East Bank Trail to the Riverwest neighborhood on the west bank. At Riverside Park, a connection can be made to the Oak Leaf Trail which loops all the way around Milwaukee County. The East Bank Trail could more or less be considered a northern extension of the RiverWalk system further downstream, the gaps between which will be filled as development continues in the Beerline area and Lower East Side.

Meanwhile, on the west bank of the river, another recreational trail is in the works. The proposed Beerline Trail would run on the former railbed between North Avenue and Gordon Park/Locust Street, and possibly further.

See the Journal Sentinel for more: A new view of the river (http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=476841)

http://graphics.jsonline.com/graphics/news/img/jul06/trail072606.jpg
^ The Milwaukee River and East Bank Trail at the North Avenue Bridge.

http://graphics.jsonline.com/graphics/news/img/jul06/trail26g.gif

[CGII]

That's great news. The post industrial riverfront is really squandered North of the city, and that stretch of the river is really surreal being in the midst of such urbanity. It'd be nice as well to see the stretch of the River on the West bank from the Caesar's Park rehabilitated. However much a local landmark it is, that ship lounge/restaurant thing could be destroyed and that whole riverfront from North Avenue to Commerce st. could be a fantastic park. Riverwest's rehabilitation is really moving quickly.

Does that mean once a month everyone in the city comes downtown and pees on the buildings? :)
No, the city just comes downtown and pees on developers proposing large projects. ;)

[Markitect]

It'd be nice as well to see the stretch of the River on the West bank from the Caesar's Park rehabilitated.

The Milwaukee River Revitalization Foundation was instrumental in establishing the East Bank Trail, to not only establish the trail, but also for preserving/restoring the natual areas on that side of the river...to keep them open and green and undeveloped as a great natural asset to the community.

They are working to repeat that process on the west side of the river as well...hence the aforementioned Beer Line Trail proposal. The MRRF already owns the riverfront strip between Gordon Park and Wright Street for recreational and preservation/restoration purposes. Furcther south, the County, along with neighborhood citizen groups, landowners, and developers are collaborating on carrying that idea through the section between Wright and North Avenue. The proposed trail will run past the off-campus UWM housing that will be built near North Avenue, and the riverfront will be kept in a more natual state there.

[MalibuSooner]

First of all, thanks to Markitect and all the others for the fantastic information found on this thread.


I just returned from 4 days in the Milwaukee area and I have to say I was literally blown away with what I saw. I hadn’t been there in about 12 years and I couldn’t believe the change and all the things in progress.

I had read here and elsewhere about some of the bigger projects but it in no way prepared me for the massive amount of change and construction I found. From the Third Ward (I was surprised how much was already in place) to the high-rise condo towers that are changing the skyline to the literally hundreds of smaller renovations and in-fill projects, it seemed everywhere I turned there was something new and interesting to see.


I was born in Milwaukee but my parents moved away when I was very young but I always enjoyed going back to visit relatives because I found the area to the historical, well-preserved, clean and green. The strong ties to the German, Polish, Italian, Greek and other European cultures was/is really cool as well.

My dad’s family was part of the legions of Polish immigrants that settled in the area now known as the East Side. We had visited the ‘old neighborhood’ in the past but it was absolutely stunning to see how the area had become such a haven for bohemians and students alike and how there were hundreds of interesting restaurants, bars, taverns and shops.

Their house was on Barlett Ave. (just east of the river) and south of Locust and there are actually several taverns and restaurants on that residential street, all seemingly thriving. I was expecting to find the typical blight you see in the fringe areas around most downtowns, but this neighborhood was just the opposite and their old house in particular had been perfectly maintained. It was unbelievably cool to sit with my aunt & uncle (my dad has long since passed) and drink a beer at tavern patio on the very street where they grew up! If anyone knows where Champions Pub and the Red Dot are, then you know the street and their old house is literally four doors down from the latter.

And of course there was so much more: the Oak Leaf bike trail in place of the RR tracks; the East Bank Trail (and further down, the Riverwalk); the much improved but nicely preserved Riverside High that is now a highly respected magnet school; all the cool little restaurants on Oakland Ave.; and probably most impressive were the areas on North and Brady Avenues.

Those two little districts were especially cool because my dad and his siblings all hung out at the Orient Theater, Landmark Lanes and countless other places that had been almost perfectly preserved and currently havens for the new, mainly younger crowd. Having grown up in Oklahoma City and now living in Southern California, it was awesome to see a city that actually had some history and preserved it!

This is not to mention any of the places downtown that they used to frequent and are still there, although under at least slightly different use. Also took in a game at the fantastic Miller Park and not only was I impressed with the facilities, the people are just so darn nice and friendly.


I’ve said this for a while and now I’ve been harping on about it to anyone I talk to: Milwaukee is a very, very underrated city.

So much so, I’d really like to buy an investment property on the East Side so when I retire in 20 years or so, I could spend some time back in that area, exploring many of the places my dad did as a kid and a young man… And I know for sure they’ll still be standing and probably thriving.


Citizens should be very proud of Milwaukee and its clear things are getting better there exponentially. I can’t wait to go back and rather than waiting another 12 years, I’ll probably return as early as this fall.

[ReddAlert II]

Glad you enjoyed your return man^ I think revisiting the city in 2010 will be a further shock.

[ReddAlert II]

Well, here we go again. Jim Metz is planning to construct a 65-unit condo project on Commerce St., another in a long line of underwhelming condo projects in Milwaukee. No offense, but we've got a million of these insignificant condo projects slapped together in the last few years. While they attract people Downtown, these fairly uninspired developments undermine -- and possibly kill -- any major projects that could add some clout to the skyline...ie. The proposed 32-story Gahzi project on Wisconsin Ave., the sort-of-proposed 40-something-story Lake Pointe Tower project next to the Bank One tower, etc, etc, etc.
I blame the City of Milwaukee "leaders" for not having a plan, other than allowing helter skelter building of smallish condo projects with 8,000 sq. ft of retail and six or seven hotel rooms and a six and a half table restaurant...it just goes on and on and on...
Is it me, or are there way too many of these crummy, small developments?
It is really hard to get too excited about most of these. Sorry.:yuck:

what kind of big development would you want in this location? I dont think some skyscraper would fit here at all. And why would it kill the Ghazi proposal, or the Lake Pointe one? Speaking of Lake Pointe, you wont get any of these towers unless Milwaukee can attract a major tennant.

I dont think 65 units is insignificant. I think this is a good project that will fit in the neighborhood nicely.

[Oshkosh49]

Hey MalibuSooner, very glad to see that you enjoyed your return visit to Milwaukee. Yes, Milwaukee has a plethora of great features that make you wonder why more people from across the country don't visit Milwaukee. Lake Michigan, Miller Park, the Riverwalk with all the cafes and bars, the Milwaukee Art Museum Quadricci Pavillion, Pier Wisconsin, Brady Street, the Historic Third Ward, all of the new condos, including some with their own private boat piers, etc., etc. And in the near future a new Harley Davidson Museum, a huge expansion of Potowotami Casino, more condos, and new hotels as well.

Last September, my sister from northern California visited and spent a day in Milwaukee along with my sister from Dallas. My sister from California used to live on the east side on Farwell some 17 years ago. She too was stunned by the changes that have transpired during that time.

And my sister from Dallas was blown away by the size of the downtown area of Milwaukee. She was stunned how the downtown goes for blocks and blocks in all directions. She told me that Dallas has obviously taller skyscrapers, but the downtown area only goes roughly 6 to 8 blocks in all directions. And when you think that Milwaukee is roughly 40% of the population of Dallas, it was a shock to me to hear my sister say that.

[CGII]

what kind of big development would you want in this location? I dont think some skyscraper would fit here at all. And why would it kill the Ghazi proposal, or the Lake Pointe one? Speaking of Lake Pointe, you wont get any of these towers unless Milwaukee can attract a major tennant.

I dont think 65 units is insignificant. I think this is a good project that will fit in the neighborhood nicely.
I would like a project similar in size, but if you've seen the renderings, it's pretty dissapointing. It looks like a pseudo-urban apartment complex for someplace like Waukesha.

Malibu, it's fantastic to hear a testimonial love of the city. A good friend of mine recently moved here from Marin, and for the first few months he lived here, he was real upset (I would be too if I moved from SF), but today he's really fond of the city. Most people I've talked to really enjoy the town, and it's great they do.
In terms of developement, yes, the future is very bright. But otherwise, there are a lot of issues that need to be conquered, specifically in the central city areas. The Public Museum is a collander of money, and mismanagement of funds by the city is shutting down 40 local pools and letting the parks, education, and other basic civic obligations.
That said, the city is really revitalizing fast. I blinked, and all of the sudden there's huge interest in the Brewers Hill/Harambee area, which used to be some of the worst slums in the city. I think the outlook for the long term is much brighter than the short term for the city, and all the while our urban context has never been better.
Come back when the Park East is filled up with developement, Walker's Point undergoes a Third Ward like transformation, and the Pabst is renovated. We gotta helluva lot of potential, and it really makes me smile when someone from the coasts can appreciate this wonderful city.

[Wheelingman04]

^ I am glad to hear the city is revitalizing quickly.

[CGII]

^ I am glad to hear the city is revitalizing quickly.
Parts are. I mention Brewers Hill/Harambee because home values have nearly doubled and in some cases tripled in those neighbourhoods, and they are seeing lots of infill and restoration. So much so, that Brewers Hill residents are trying to put a cap on homes over four stories. Some areas, like around central North Ave. (Metcalfe Park) or Center St. are just kind of static. I wouldn't say that there were neighbourhoods rapidly deteriorating, but the very worst of the city isn't really making any progress.

[Markitect]

There are a bunch of positive, smaller things going on across the inner city, away from Downtown and all of the hip, trendy neighborhoods...it's just that the local media rarely makes any mention of it.

Fond du Lac & North Area Plan (http://www.mkedcd.org/PlanUpdates/FondNorthUpdate.html)

Near West Side Plan (http://www.mkedcd.org/PlanUpdates/NearWestUpdate.html)

Milwaukee Main Streets Districts (http://www.mkedcd.org/MainStreetMilwaukee/MSMDistricts.html)

Not to mention all of the infill housing by Habitat for Humanity and other housing/employment/urban reviatlization efforts from other non-profit agencies and so forth.

These are just a few samples of what's going on away from all of the so-called "hot spots."

[ReddAlert II]

I would like a project similar in size, but if you've seen the renderings, it's pretty dissapointing. It looks like a pseudo-urban apartment complex for someplace like Waukesha.


I dont know...I kind of like it. It it looks like the rendering it will look pretty cool. Its small, but it appears it will be redbrick with black--which will look interesting in my opinion.

[adamb10]

I hope that in the next 5 years a builder will top the US Bank building as the tallest building in Milwaukee. I want to see a new high rise go up, sick of seeing that same building.

[Oshkosh49]

I hope that in the next 5 years a builder will top the US Bank building as the tallest building in Milwaukee. I want to see a new high rise go up, sick of seeing that same building.I pretty much share your sentiment. But keep in mind that before the US Bank Tower was completed in 1973, the Milwaukee City Hall was the tallest building in Milwaukee for 78 years straight. And it's only been 33 years since the US Bank Tower was finished. So don't hold your breath. Especially since a good piortion of the CBD of Milwaukee is built upon former marsh land. The proposed Lake Point Tower, which is searching for an anchor tenant, would be the only possibility in the near future at an similar 42 storey height. If the LPT is a go, it remains to be seen whether it's taller than the 601 feet of the US Bank Tower. And I have my doubts about that.

[adamb10]

Yeah I looked up the US Bank building and it made me more disipointed in Milwaukee. Only 600 feet.

[Skyking]

what kind of big development would you want in this location? I dont think some skyscraper would fit here at all. And why would it kill the Ghazi proposal, or the Lake Pointe one? Speaking of Lake Pointe, you wont get any of these towers unless Milwaukee can attract a major tennant.

I dont think 65 units is insignificant. I think this is a good project that will fit in the neighborhood nicely.

I never said anything about building a skyscraper on that site. Why would you assume that? For every condo that's built as part of smaller projects, it reduces the market demand. This downtown condo craze won't last forever. And yes, the rendering of this 65-condo development looks like something right out of suburbia - and not all that imaginative.
Developers are going to make their buck wherever they can, so all the power to them. But, for once, I'd like to see the city "planners" get together with a developer and put something grand together - something that would ideally tie-in the far-flung skyline. No more high rises right on top of each other like the Kilbourn Tower and UC Tower...jeeez!
As for major projects needing an anchor tenant...I think we understand that by now. Except, the original plan for the 32-story Ghazi project called for very little office space - primarily condos and hotel rooms. So, to reiterate, 65condos in a four-story building will detract from other, potentially larger projects based on demand. I'd like to believe that people will continue to move downtown at the current pace indefinitely, but that's pretty unlikely.

[CGII]

Now that the condo boom is starting to close and offices are next, I'd personally like to see more public spaces and buildings, like museums. Once the courthouse can find space for more parking, I'd personally love to see McArthur Sq. redone. It's an awful space that has a ton of potential. My dream project, which will NEVER happen due to budget and Scott Walker, would be a cap over I43 behind the Courthouse, where the annex used to be. There's more than enough room to build one, and seeing our beautiful couthouse next to a massive freeway is rather discouraging. Putting a plaza on a cap over the freeway would link the west end of downtown with Marquette for the first time in years...

Even though putting Kilbourn and UCT next to each other was probably a slightly silly lapse of judgement, you have to admit it's pretty sweet to see them neck and neck next to each other. Not to mention, the lots they take up are really the only empty lakefront lots left open all the way up to Mequon (with the exception of where Lafayette Place is going up and another parcel across from Burns Commons). I think the thing to be most upset about in the whole matter is not being able to see the South side of Kilbourn Tower.

[Markitect]

Journal Sentinel architecture/urban spaces critic Whitney Gould weighs in on the Ruvin vs. Rana proposals: Better design melds new, old (http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=478058)

THE RUVIN PROPOSAL

http://graphics.jsonline.com/graphics/photographer/17/1792_large.jpg

^ A view of the corner at 3rd and Juneau. The historic Sydney Hih building and a relocated Gipfel Union Brewery building would be incorporated into the new development.

http://graphics.jsonline.com/graphics/photographer/17/1794_large.jpg

^ A view of the plaza at 3rd and McKinley. The ivy-covered walls screen a parking sturcture tucked into the center of the block. A green plaza sits at the corner.

http://graphics.jsonline.com/graphics/photographer/17/1793_large.jpg

^ The 20-story hotel tower rises above the corner at 4th and McKinley.


THE RANA PROPOSAL

http://graphics.jsonline.com/graphics/photographer/18/1803_large.jpg

^ A view of the hotel tower along 4th Street.

http://graphics.jsonline.com/graphics/photographer/18/1804_large.jpg

^ An overview of the Rana proposal looking from the corner of 3rd and McKinley. A hardscaped puclic plaza sits on the corner. Since the Sysdney Hih building is already owned by Ruvin, it cannot be really incorporated into Rana's plans.

http://graphics.jsonline.com/graphics/photographer/18/1802_large.jpg

^ A view of the proposed gas station, with its modern glass canopy and service area. The convenience store is incoporated into the street level of an office building.

Be sure to check out the full slideshow for even more renderings and models. (http://www.jsonline.com/links/parkeast)

[CGII]

It's nice to see Gould's endorsement of the project. I haven't seen Rana's rendering until now...it's kind of just taking the hip condo style a bit further. And the way it shuns the Sidney Hih is pretty awful. I think it'd be interesting to see what would happen should Ruvin somehow win the commission and have to build on Rana's Sydney Hih...

I suppose Rana's design wouldn't look so bland and boring to me if Ruvin hadn't proposed their piece de resistance.

[Markitect]

For every condo that's built as part of smaller projects, it reduces the market demand...

Except, the original plan for the 32-story Ghazi project called for very little office space - primarily condos and hotel rooms. So, to reiterate, 65condos in a four-story building will detract from other, potentially larger projects based on demand.

Or, they serve different segments of the residential market.

The residential units in a high rise (the Ghazi proposal, for example) would most likely cater to an entirely different segment of buyers than the residnetial units in the smaller, low-rise Beerline proposal. This would be due to the fact that high-rises are inherently more expensive to build (because they require more and different construction materials, take longer to build, and so on), thus high rise developers would have to sell those units for higher prices to achieve the desired return on their investment.

But like you said, developers will build wherever and whenever they can make money. That's the way the real estate development biz works...local municipal governments and planners do not really control the ecomonic forces that drive development. They can poke and prod it along, but ultimately what gets built is determined by developers who bring forth proposals based on what the market is.

Without all of the many smaller developments that have sprouted across the city--the good ones and even the not-so-good ones--Milwaukee would be much worse off...with more vacant lots, barren riverfronts, dilapidated and underused buildings, surface parking lots, and a greatly reduced tax base.

[Markitect]

haven't seen Rana's rendering until now...it's kind of just taking the hip condo style a bit further. And the way it shuns the Sidney Hih is pretty awful.

With regard to the Sydney Hih, Ruvin already owns it, so he has the ability to incorporate it into his design. Rana's proposal can't do that because Rana doesn't own that building.

Considering Rana isn't in a position to be able to include the Sydney Hih into the overall composition like Ruvin could, it does a pretty good job of recognizing its presence next door without "shunning" it. There is an interesting juxtaposition of historic and modern right next to each other, and the newer office/retail building is clearly designed to be of the same approximate scale and mass of the historic building.

[Oshkosh49]

As I suggested a week or so ago, I still think it would be nice if both the Ruvin proposal and the Rana proposal were both done. Have the Ruvin proposal go forth next to the Sidney Hih, since it already owns that building. And then encourage the Rana proposal to be placed near by within the Park East corridor.

I sincerely hope the "losing" developer doesn't give up on their proposal and promply plans their project on a different parcel of land, again within the Park East corridor. Let's have 138 million dollars of projects being developed instead of either 104 million dollars or 34 million dollars.

[CGII]

As I suggested a week or so ago, I still think it would be nice if both the Ruvin proposal and the Rana proposal were both done. Have the Ruvin proposal go forth next to the Sidney Hih, since it already owns that building. And then encourage the Rana proposal to be placed near by within the Park East corridor.

I sincerely hope the "losing" developer doesn't give up on their proposal and promply plans their project on a different parcel of land, again within the Park East corridor. Let's have 138 million dollars of projects being developed instead of either 104 million dollars or 34 million dollars.
I think that might come off as silly. There are many similarities in the general layout of each proposal (as probably mandated by the County Board), and I think it'd be awkward if they were just placed next to each other. That said, I'd rather see that the developer that 'loses' proposes a whole new building on a different plot.

[Oshkosh49]

I think that might come off as silly. There are many similarities in the general layout of each proposal (as probably mandated by the County Board), and I think it'd be awkward if they were just placed next to each other. That said, I'd rather see that the developer that 'loses' proposes a whole new building on a different plot.SILLY!? Well then, I guess the Kilbourn Tower and the University Club Tower are really really silly. They're two similar high-rise condo towers, with the same "general layout", and the same similar location, right next to each other. There are similar condo projects all over the Third Ward within very close proximinty, and nobody thinks they're silly.

I never suggested the Rana and Ruvin projects had to be right next to each other as you wrongfully imply. I suggested the losing developer be encouraged to select another parcel of land within the Park East corridor. And I'm sure if Rana (for example) isn't selected, they'll modify their proposal to suit any parcel they end up with.

[CGII]

Um, no. The Kilbourn Tower and UCT can't share the same layout because they're just towers. Take a look at the Ruvin and Rana plans. The plazas of both the Rana and Ruvin are in the same place. As well, there is a low office wing adjacent to the Sydney Hih in both proposals. The tower is in the same location in both, and so is the parking garage.
DOn't misintrep what I'm saying. I highly encourage growth of most all kinds in the city, but these projects are so similar that it would be ridiculous to build more than one, even if they aren't adjacent to each other.