[Eriol]

This is from the news section of this site:
http://www.renewthevalley.org

eNews: July 2006
July 15, 2006 - 9:00pm

Happy Summer from Menomonee Valley Partners!

1. MVP and Valley businesses work to bring a bus to the Valley

During the past six months, several Menomonee Valley businesses, MVP, MCTS, and Valley County Supervisor Peggy West have been meeting to study transit options to meet the demand for job access to the Menomonee Valley. With more than 10,000 jobs currently in the Valley and more than 500 jobs moving in to the Menomonee Valley in the next year alone, the need for transit service to the Valley is immediate, especially as many of the Milwaukee area residents vying for good jobs in the Valley are transit-dependent. We have a limited opportunity to secure federal Job Access Reverse Commute funds for 50% of the project, and to secure the local match, MVP facilitated a partnership with the Wisconsin Department of Transportation, the City of Milwaukee, the Valley Business Improvement District and Potawatomi Bingo Casino. All the partners have committed, with the exception of the City - the Common Council has recommended its Community and Economic Development Committee further discuss this important issue. Stay tuned! http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=461609


2. Hank Aaron makes special appearance at August 12 Grand Slam Festival!

Milwaukee baseball legend Hank Aaron is returning to his old stomping grounds in the heart of the Menomonee Valley on August 12, 2006. Don’t miss your chance to see a legend in person, and see Hank swing the bat to officially open his namesake trail at 10:30 a.m.. The Grand Slam Festival opening the Trail is a full day event, including the 7th Annual 5K Run / Walk, the music of One Drum and Otis Hertz and the Funkatrons, demonstrations by Four Seasons skateboarders, a Taste of the Valley area restaurants, a showcase of Valley companies and employment opportunities, and of course, the opportunity to walk and ride the newly completed Hank Aaron State Trail with the legend himself. Don’t miss it! The event runs from 8:00 a.m. until 4:00 p.m. in the Miller Park east lots. For more information, see www.HankAaronStateTrail.org. You can download flyers to post in your office at www.renewthevalley.org.


3. Length of the Hank Aaron State Trail to double

The State of Wisconsin will buy 5 1/2 miles of an abandoned railroad corridor that will double the length of the Hank Aaron State Trail. Utilizing an abandoned railway corridor, this new extension of the Hank Aaron State Trail will traverse the entirety of Milwaukee County, running through the Historic Soldiers Home and State Fair Park, and adjacent to the Pettit Ice Center and Milwaukee County Zoo. The Trail, to be completed by 2009, will link with the Oak Leaf Trail at both the east and west endpoints and at several points in between. The completed Hank Aaron State Trail will be valuable as a recreational path and a commuter route for people who choose to bike to work and to the numerous venues along the route. "The trail will take you anywhere you want to go," said Bruce Keyes, president of the non-profit group Friends of the Hank Aaron State Trail.


4. MVP is pleased to announce two additions to our team:

Catrina Crane is MVP's Special Projects Coordinator. She will be working to create stronger links between Valley businesses and the workforce in surrounding neighborhoods, as well as coordinating the implementation of the Menomonee Valley Community Park. Catrina comes to MVP from the City of Milwaukee, where she managed a two-year special project on lead abatement and home reconstruction. She previously worked with the Wisconsin Regional Training Partnership and is a Milwaukee native. Her telephone number is 414-274-4657 and her email is catrina@renewthevalley.org. Welcome Catrina!


Murry Streetman will be joining MVP as the Open Space Program Coordinator through the Trinity Fellows Program at Marquette University, a graduate fellowship program dedicated to developing urban leaders with a commitment to social justice. Murry will be with MVP part-time during his 21-month program while he also pursues a master's in philosophy. He previously served in the Peace Corps in the Darien region of Panama and is a native of Denver, CO. Murry will join us on September 4, 2006. Welcome Murry!


5. Guidelines Adopted for Menomonee Valley Industrial Center

The Redevelopment Authority of the City of Milwaukee has adopted the Master Land Use Plan to guide the sale and development land in the Menomonee Valley Industrial Center (MVIC). Policy makers, elected officials and city staff now have a common set of goals and guidelines with which to evaluate prospects. The documents are available on MVP’s website, www.renewthevalley.org.

The City also recently executed a contract with MVP to serve as the lead marketing agent for the MVIC. MVP will implement a proactive marketing campaign to recruit companies seeking expansion or relocation to this premier business location. If you know of anyone looking for prime industrial space, please refer them to Corey at (414) 274-4655 or corey@renewthevalley.org.


6. Two companies plan to move to the Valley

Caleffi North America Inc., currently located in Franklin Business Park, and Badger Railing Inc., in the eastern portion of the Menomonee Valley, are planning to buy parcels in the western end of the Menomonee Valley Industrial Center. Caleffi North America, a division of an Italian company manufacturing hydronic systems, plans to build a 35,000-square-foot plant, while Badger Railing, which makes ornamental iron products, is planning an 18,400-square-foot building to house 41 employees. Badger Railing and Caleffi North America will join frozen pizza maker Palermo Villa Inc., which is constructing a 135,000-square-foot building in the Menomonee Valley Industrial Center. Read more here: http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=454694


7. Harley-Davidson breaks ground on Valley museum

This spring Harley-Davidson unveiled the designs for the $95 million Harley-Davidson Museum complex, and on June 1, broke ground for the three buildings being constructed at S. 6th and Canal Streets, which will house the museum, company archives, restaurant, cafe, gift shop and special-event space. Governor Jim Doyle, Mayor Tom Barrett and County Executive Scott Walker were on hand for the event, noting that the museum will attract visitors from throughout the world when it opens in the summer of 2008. It is expected to annually bring in 350,000 visitors. “With over one hundred years and millions of motorcycles behind us, Harley-Davidson has a rich history, an exciting present and a vibrant future,” said Jim Ziemer, CEO of Harley-Davidson, Inc. “In the years to come, the Harley-Davidson Museum will be a centerpiece of the Harley-Davidson experience.” Learn more here: http://www.h-dmuseum.com


8. Court ruling paves the way for Potawatomi expansion

The Wisconsin Supreme Court ruled that the casino games originally approved in 1991 and 1992 for the state's 11 tribes and the expansions approved since then were constitutional. The decision likely paves the way for a major expansion of the Potawatomi Bingo Casino in the Menomonee Valley, a $240 million job that will triple the floor space of what already is the state's most successful gambling venue, and create an additional 1000 permanent jobs. Tribal officials have said construction would begin within a month of a ruling affirming the legality of the casinos.


9. Valley park continues to blossom

Planting is going full speed ahead down in the Valley Park! A group of committed volunteers from the Friends of the Hank Aaron State Trail have been down there planting away. Trees and shrubs are appearing throughout the park, and emerging aquatic plants will soon be visible in the stormwater management areas. Thanks to all the great volunteers for helping to build this community park. To get involved, contact corey@renewthevalley.org or call 274-4655.


10. Valley History Recycled, thanks to Americorps and Falk/Rexnord

The former Milwaukee Stockyards will live on – as picnic tables and benches in the Menomonee Valley Community Park and along the Hank Aaron State Trail! A team of Americorps volunteers working with Groundwork Milwaukee and landscape architect Nancy Aten collected oak and pine boards from the Stockyards fencing, and our friends at Falk/Rexnord, located in the center of the Valley, loaded the board on a truck and brought them to their plant. Falk’s pattern makers have planed and sanded these old boards and revealed their hidden beauty – old growth wood perfect for picnic tables and benches for the Valley’s new park. When you come down to the Valley for the Grand Slam Event on August 12, take a look at these beautiful tables. Thanks to Falk, Americorps, and Groundworks for recycling some Valley history for future enjoyment.



11. Marquette engineering students propose solution to Menomonee River problems

Three Marquette engineering students worked on design solutions for the Menomonee River near Emmber Lane, a section of river notorious for collecting debris. Under the supervision of our Valley neighbors at the Sigma Group, these students proposed a plan that will eliminate this debris accumulation, as well as create public access for canoes and kayaks and restore habitat in the area. The students presented three variations of the plan to the Menomonee Valley Business Association, ad all hope we can implement one of these great plans soon! See the designs here: http://www.thesigmagroup.com/news_marquette.html

12. Milwaukee urban water trail recognized by the secretary of the interior

On June 1, Secretary of the Interior Dirk Kempthorne announced 36 new national recreation trails in 24 states, which added more than 800 miles of trails to the national trail system. In Milwaukee, the Urban Water Trail was announced as part of this recreational expansion. This 35 mile water trail flows through urban portions of the Milwaukee, Menomonee and Kinnickinnic Rivers, providing miles of access and paddling to the 1.5 million people in the great Milwaukee metro area. See the Milwaukee Urban Water Trail Map here: http://www.mkeriverkeeper.org/watertrail/map.htm

[ReddAlert II]

I never said anything about building a skyscraper on that site. Why would you assume that? For every condo that's built as part of smaller projects, it reduces the market demand. This downtown condo craze won't last forever. And yes, the rendering of this 65-condo development looks like something right out of suburbia - and not all that imaginative.
Developers are going to make their buck wherever they can, so all the power to them. But, for once, I'd like to see the city "planners" get together with a developer and put something grand together - something that would ideally tie-in the far-flung skyline. No more high rises right on top of each other like the Kilbourn Tower and UC Tower...jeeez!
As for major projects needing an anchor tenant...I think we understand that by now. Except, the original plan for the 32-story Ghazi project called for very little office space - primarily condos and hotel rooms. So, to reiterate, 65condos in a four-story building will detract from other, potentially larger projects based on demand. I'd like to believe that people will continue to move downtown at the current pace indefinitely, but that's pretty unlikely.

maybe. However, the 65 condos on Commerce will create more life in that neighorhood. I dont think it wise to turn down these smaller developments because of that anyway.

I also would like to see them build something grand downtown. A 800-900 foot tower would be great...but we all know it will not happen sadly. I think Lake Point, Ghazi, and Lake Bluff are the tallest and best downtown will get in the near future. I havent heard anything about Lake Bluff though for awile and Lake Pointe Towers future is pretty shaky.

[ReddAlert II]

Now that the condo boom is starting to close and offices are next, I'd personally like to see more public spaces and buildings, like museums. Once the courthouse can find space for more parking, I'd personally love to see McArthur Sq. redone. It's an awful space that has a ton of potential. My dream project, which will NEVER happen due to budget and Scott Walker, would be a cap over I43 behind the Courthouse, where the annex used to be. There's more than enough room to build one, and seeing our beautiful couthouse next to a massive freeway is rather discouraging. Putting a plaza on a cap over the freeway would link the west end of downtown with Marquette for the first time in years...

Even though putting Kilbourn and UCT next to each other was probably a slightly silly lapse of judgement, you have to admit it's pretty sweet to see them neck and neck next to each other. Not to mention, the lots they take up are really the only empty lakefront lots left open all the way up to Mequon (with the exception of where Lafayette Place is going up and another parcel across from Burns Commons). I think the thing to be most upset about in the whole matter is not being able to see the South side of Kilbourn Tower.

I am just throwing this out there, but always loved the possibility of there being stores, resturants, etc. ontop of McArthur Square. I would dig something like this up there.

http://img191.imageshack.us/img191/5715/munichqi7.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

How cool would that be, right infront of the looming courthouse? I probally am wrong about this, but I think that no matter how they redesign that park---its going to be dead. There aint' nothing around there to draw average people off the street up there besides bums, students visiting the museum, and people awaiting court hearings.

Now, I know I am no architect or planner and you probally will laugh at my quick paint design...but this is what I had in mind. The blue squares being cafes, coffehouses, whatever. I think it could work--with MATC students, thousands of people working at the school, courthouse, police station, and museum....as well as people hanging out after Bucks, Marquette, Admirals etc. games.

http://img518.imageshack.us/img518/1856/loveiq4.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[CGII]

Exactly. The park is in a decent location, being the focus of the gov't buildings around there, and with more 'advertising' for the space, ie signs acknowledging its existence, it would be a great link to the Public Museum. It could also attract gov't workers on their lunch hour.

[ReddAlert II]

^and I would also like to see a more grandiose statue of Douglas McArthur. Cmon, the guy is one of the greatest generals in American history and all he gets is this little statue. We need to go back and start building these statues like they did in Europe---where people can just sit on and hang out like you see at Tralfgar Square in London.

I feel strongly about that Martin Luther King Jr. Statue on MLK. Its a decent statue, yet it sits infront of a damn parking lot. They should put this in a more visible and prominent location--the street is named MLK after all. I hope to god that the Glover memorial thing in Cathedral Square is done right. A nicely redesigned Catheral Square could be incredible with that location.

We can do much better than this to honor one of America's greatest bad asses.
http://img91.imageshack.us/img91/8711/10284iv6.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

And speaking of statues, this one is very unknown to the public. I first seen it late last year when I actually made it up to MA Square (another example of the poor location). I think its one of the best.

http://img291.imageshack.us/img291/9823/102813kd4.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[CGII]

I always forget about the Ghandi statue. MacArthur square is an awful plot of urban planning that squanders all the plentiful oppurtunities it has.

[Skyking]

[QUOTE=Eriol]This is from the news section of this site:
http://www.renewthevalley.org

eNews: July 2006
July 15, 2006 - 9:00pm

Happy Summer from Menomonee Valley Partners!

1. MVP and Valley businesses work to bring a bus to the Valley

During the past six months, several Menomonee Valley businesses, MVP, MCTS, and Valley County Supervisor Peggy West have been meeting to study transit options to meet the demand for job access to the Menomonee Valley.

You'd be best not to mention Peggy West in your comments - she is no friend to development. Unless it's some form of expanded bus service, don't waste time trying to justify and promote a cost-prohibitive and completely ineffective rail plan. And, if anyone brings up that inane idea again to erect elevators in the valley, I'm gonna have to question their sanity :koko:

[Skyking]

[QUOTE=Eriol]This is from the news section of this site:
http://www.renewthevalley.org

eNews: July 2006
July 15, 2006 - 9:00pm

Happy Summer from Menomonee Valley Partners!

1. MVP and Valley businesses work to bring a bus to the Valley

During the past six months, several Menomonee Valley businesses, MVP, MCTS, and Valley County Supervisor Peggy West have been meeting to study transit options to meet the demand for job access to the Menomonee Valley.

You'd be best not to mention Peggy West in your comments - she is no friend to development. Unless it's some form of expanded bus service, don't waste time trying to justify and promote a cost-prohibitive and completely ineffective rail plan. And, if anyone brings up that inane idea again to erect elevators in the valley, I'm gonna have to question their sanity :koko:

[Markitect]

The former Pabst brewery complex now officially has a new owner. Local real estate investor Joseph Zilber closed the deal very recently. He bought the entire 21 acres (which includes nearly 30 vacant buildings), as well as the engineering and architectural work that was done by the previous developers before their PabstCity plans fell through last summer.

Zilber's concept for "The Brewery" is a bit different than the PabstCity proposal:

- It focuses more on creating a neighborhood filled with mixed-uses, as opposed to placing a large emphasis on an entertainment center destination zone that would have been largely removed from Downtown.

- It focuses more on preserving the historic brewery buildings, as opposed to demolishing many of them to make room for big-box mega-buildings and multiple large parking garages.

- It focuses more on green building practices.

- It focuses on dividing up the complex to make it available to multiple developers, as opposed to one giant project controlled by a single group.

Although the concept is still somewhat "loose" yet, there have been some names and ideas that have been tossed about. Gorman & Company, a housing developer that places an emphasis on historic conversions and affordable housing, has expressed interest in one of the Pabst blocks. Johnson Controls are considering creating a regional training center and attached hotel on another block. James Haertel, who was one of the minority partners for the PabstCity proposal (who has been in dispute with his former majority partners over parts of the earlier failed proposal) still has plans to create a brewing museum and Hofbrauhaus restaurant/brewpub in the old Pabst offices/visitor's center.

In the coming months, Zilber plans to talk to the City about a tax increment financing arrangement that would be used to pay for some of the work required to rehabilitate the brewery area. The previous PabstCity plan was hung up over a $41 million TIF request that ultimately led to the whole proposal being dropped. Zilber says his TIF request will be much less. If all goes well, some of the infrastructure and remediation work could start before the end of the year.

More from the Journal Sentinel: Pabst project moves ahead - Purchase complete, investor hopes to secure city funding by year's end (http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=484778)

More from the Small Business Times: Zilber completes purchase of Pabst brewery (http://biztimes.datajoe.com/app/ecom/pub_article_details.php?id=82608)

More from the Daily Reporter: Pabst Brewery is sold (http://www.dailyreporter.com/item.cfm?recid=20041674&snippet=f)

And more on The Brewery project website (http://www.pabstproject.com/)


***


This past Monday, a "sledgehammering ceremony" was held to officially commemorate the remodeling project underway at the Downtown Amtrak station. The train station, originally built in 1965 (and at 40+ years old, still one of the "youngest" stations on the national railroad's system), will be getting a full makeover inside and out.

The station will become an intermodal trasnportation hub, playing host not only to Amtrak trains (and, assuming it would actually be approved, the Metra commuter rail extension also), Greyhound and other local/regional buses, and the existing car rental outlet. The upper floors will have renovated office space to accomomdate WisDOT and other possible tenants. The ground floor will have a small restaurant/food court (fast food/diner type stuff), new ticket counters, support areas, and a glassy, three-story atrium waiting room.

The renovation is expected to be finished at the end of next summer. The station will be open during construction.

Meanshile, City officials expect the revitalized station will serve as a catalyst to spark investment in nearby buildings and empty lots. A vacant site across the street, now being used as a staging area for nearby freeway reconstruction, is a potential site for a mixed-use parking garage/retail structure...which could in turn allow some kind of development on the surface parking lots next to the train station. The owner of a warehouse-turned-office building across the street is considering remodeling his building into residential uses or a hotel. Down the street, there is a poposal to convert the old Pritzlaff/Hack warehouse into a mixed-use retail/office/residential building.

http://graphics.jsonline.com/graphics/bym/img/aug06/amtrak081506.jpg
^ A rendering of the remodeled station as viewed from W. St. Paul Avenue. The interior and exterior will get a makeover. The glassed-in waiting room area will be an addition onto the front of the existing building.

http://graphics.jsonline.com/graphics/news/img/sep05/amtrak1092505.jpg
^A view of the glassy passenger atrium with its gridded and diagonal support structure.

More from the Journal Sentinel: Neighbors might get on remodeling train - Amtrak redesign could spur new development (http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=483271)

And from the Daily Reporter: New Milwaukee Amtrak station on track - Redo of 1965 building to be completed in year (http://www.dailyreporter.com/item.cfm?recid=20041643&snippet=f)

And also from the WisDOT Milwaukee intermodal terminal renovation website (http://www.dot.wisconsin.gov/projects/state/amtrak-term.htm).

[adamb10]

I'm disipointed that the Pabst Brewery will probobly become condos and not the entertainment area it was going to be but anything is better than whats there now.

I'm glad the Amtrak station is getting renovated, it looks like a dump.

[Oshkosh49]

I'm disipointed that the Pabst Brewery will probobly become condos and not the entertainment area it was going to be but anything is better than whats there now.The owners of other entertainment venues in downtown were NOT disappointed the original PabstCity plan failed. I'm sure they definately let their city representative know that they needed to vote against the $41 million TIF the developer was seeking from the city.

[Markitect]

I'm disipointed that the Pabst Brewery will probobly become condos and not the entertainment area it was going to be but anything is better than whats there now.

The PabstCity proposal was majorly flawed, which is why it did not gain the political support it needed to become a reality. The area is poorly located for an urban entertainment center (away from all the established high-traffic areas, away from all the established entertainmnet areas that could still use a boost, and away from transit access) being isolated in a corner of Downtown with limited access. The fact that the main anchor tenants wanted to have a 5-year escape clause included in their leases seemed to indicate that maybe they weren't so confident in the project to begin with.

I'm glad the Amtrak station is getting renovated, it looks like a dump.

It is definitely much nicer looking than the current building, though it's still a bit lackluster...too shoe-boxy...no doubt due to limited funding and a desire to reuse the existing building rather than something new from scratch.

[adamb10]

I dunno, I thought it would have been neat to revitalize that area of Downtown with entertainment or something since it's right by the big jail building and the communtiy center thingie right across the street.

[Xeelee]

nice

[CGII]

It's great to see some headway on the Pabst project, especially to hear of more preservation.

Though the funding is low, I realy admire and respect the job Epstein Uhen has done on the remodel of the Amtrak station. It's clean and simple, and considering the budget it's great. if I were designing it, though, I wouldn't put those Libeskind-esque, jagged I beams behind the facade, and just keep it a nice, broad wall of glass. Now, if only the Post Office could elabourate on how they want to replace the hulking, dirty mass next door...

[Markitect]

Recently, New Land Enterprises bought several properties on the East Side. The development firm has been actively working on plans for those properties, which include existing buildings and a residential lot.

New Land is renovating and leasing four storefronts on the 2500 and 2600 blocks of N. Downer Avenue. So far, three of the four have tenants lined up. Cafee Centraal will go into the storefront formerly occupied by Gil's Cafe, and expand into the storefront currently occupied by Optix on Downer. In turn, Optix will relocate into a vacant storefront just up the street. Also, the former Time to Kiln storefront will be used by New Land as a showroom and sales office for a nearby proposed condo project. That leaves the former Einstein Bros. Bagels shop to be leased yet.

Just a block away, New Land is proposing a major condo project on the northeast corner of N. Stowell and E. Webster Place. The 11-story building would contain 84 units (36 single-bedroom, 37 two-bedroom, and 11 penthouse units), a fitness center, community room, and parking garage that would be shared between condo residents and patrons of the nearby offices and shops.

Furthermore, New Land has plans to rehabilitate the upper floors of the Harry W. Schwartz Bookshop on Downer Avenue into new office space.

Pending approvals from the City, New Land hopes to begin construction in early 2007, with completion by Spring 2009.

http://img227.imageshack.us/img227/5377/websterstowellcondos02wr9.jpg
^ A view of the condos showing the Stowell Avenue side (left) and Webster Place side (right).

http://img227.imageshack.us/img227/5861/websterstowellcondos01gs5.jpg
^ A view looking up the facade along Webster Place.

See this article from OnMilwaukee.com for more info: New Land Enterprises reveals possible future plans for Downer Avenue (http://www.onmilwaukee.com/market/articles/newlandplans.html)

[CGII]

Interesting to see the condo boom move as far North as Downer. It sounds like New Land is trying to establish Downer as a regional destination, maybe like a petite Brady St.

[Markitect]

Interesting to see the condo boom move as far North as Downer.

Being only a mile south of UWM, they will probably try and draw from the professors who would like to live close to work. Park Lafayette, just a few blocks to the south of this New Land proposal, is trying to do the same...likewise for some othe other condos in the area that have gone up recently or are still in the proposal stage.

With rising interest rates though, it will be interesting to see if the condo market will hold up. Some other proposals around town have started emphasising higher-end rental units instead of condos because of this.

It sounds like New Land is trying to establish Downer as a regional destination, maybe like a petite Brady St.

Not really. It's more local neighborhood oriented stuff, as it has always traditionally been, as opposed to "regional destination" things. Restaurants replacing restaurants, neighborhood specialty stores replacing neighborhood specialty stores, etc. Things that will play off of what's already in the neighborhood, like UWM and Columbia-St. Mary's Hospital.

[CGII]

I love this guy.

Money won't limit Pabst Brewery project
Developer reveals his legacy to Milwaukee
By AVRUM D. LANK
alank@journalsentinel.com
Posted: Aug. 24, 2006
How about a waterfall cascading down the old Pabst Brewing Co. grain elevator overlooking the Marquette Interchange?

That's one idea from Milwaukee-based real estate mogul Joseph Zilber, who this year bought the Pabst complex on the northwest edge of downtown, along I-43. Pabst closed in 1996, ending 152 years of beer production.

As part of his redevelopment plans for the property, Zilber on Thursday suggested having a waterfall cascading down the western wall of an abandoned grain elevator on the site, an attraction that would be visible from the freeway.

The waterfall would become a landmark to replace the mural of whales by the artist Wyland that once graced the Courthouse Annex, Zilber said. The annex and mural were demolished in May as part of the ongoing rebuilding of the interchange.

To complement the waterfall, a restaurant could crown the old silo, with a rock-climbing business on the eastern side, Zilber suggested.

Still unclear is what would become of the interior of the structure - but that is not an obstacle to Zilber, who has become a multimillionaire by following his creative instincts.

When it comes to the Pabst project, imagination, not money, is the limiting factor, Zilber said in an interview in his downtown office after reporters were given a tour of the 21-acre property Thursday morning.

"I dream of the things we could do here, and I'm going to make them happen," said Zilber, who spent much of the rest of the day at City Hall, talking to officials about a tax incremental financing district for the site.

A prior redevelopment proposal by Wispark LLC last year failed to win approval of $41 million in city financial aid. Zilber subsequently purchased the site for about $13 million.

During the tour, Zilber's assistant Michael Mervis said the new proposal for city funding would be for less money.

In the interview, Zilber said the financing proposal might include some sort of profit-sharing between him and the city, but he would not provide any other details.

He added, "It doesn't make any difference if I make money or not" on the entire deal. The redevelopment "will be my legacy to the city," said Zilber, who turns 89 in November.

"I'll be 90 next year; my money has to go somewhere," he said.

Redevelopment would begin the day after city financing is approved, with the first phase taking from 12 to 15 months, Mervis said.

Protecting history
In addition to the silo, the plan is to keep as much of the history of the property intact as possible, Mervis said. However, both he and Zilber said the brick chimney on the site, with the name "Pabst" on it, is at risk of demolition because of its condition.

Zilber's plans include a mixture of commercial, office and residential uses, but not the entertainment venues that galvanized opposition to the Wispark proposal. His plans include rehabilitating many of the buildings and selling them to other developers.

But he made it clear Thursday that his own money might also be involved in subsequent uses.

For example, he suggested a restaurant be developed in the old brew house on the property, which includes six mammoth copper kettles that take up several stories.

He suggested cutting the kettles in half, filling the bottoms with water and putting glass plate over them. Tables would be on the glass and the tops of the kettles raised up so diners would eat underneath them. Tables also could be put in other parts of the building, with the top floors developed into condos or apartments, he said.

Zilber said he might be willing to finance the operation that ran it.

"It would be beautiful, the best restaurant in the world," he said.

Details about the site are available at pabstproject.com.

From the Aug. 25, 2006 editions of the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel

--

The website's worth a visit, too.

[CGII]

Markitect:A few weeks ago when I was working at Kubala Washatko, I stumbled across an old, thin book featuring a redevelopement plan for downtown dated 1979. It had, among other things, proposed a bus station on the site of the Calatrava, the restoration of the Pabst Building, several retail and hotel towers on the site of Mecca, lots of retail developement at Grand Avenue Mall, two long, short, brutalist hotels in O Donnell Park, and elevated pedestrian streets along Wisconsin Avenue west of the river, and on a few other streets, on (I believe) Milwaukee st and Mason St. The whole project reeked of Helmut Jahn-esque postmodernism and some brutalism, but I hadn't ever heard anything of it before. Would you happen to know more of it?

[Markitect]

I stumbled across an old, thin book featuring a redevelopement plan for downtown dated 1979...

Would you happen to know more of it?

I have not heard of the particular redevelopment plan you describe, so I will have to do some digging one of these days to find out more about it. It is likely that since planning for the Grand Avenue Mall was underway during the 1970s, those efforts sparked this plan encompassing all of the Downtown area.

There are all sorts of redevelopment plans floating around out there. Naturally, they reflect the architectural styles and urban design attitudes of whatever time period they were written. Brutalist architecture and elevated pedestrian walkways/plazas seemed to be in vogue during the 1960s and 70s (there are definitiely a few differernt plans from that time period recommending that kind of stuff). Looking back further, there are plans for parts of the city dating from the 1910s that recommend Neo-Classical architecture and urban design, which was popular back then.

These plans come from all different kinds of sources, too. Some come directly from the Department of City Development (or whatever the appropriate name from whichever time period). Sometimes they come from private-sector urban planning consultants hired by the City, or business organizations, or neighborhood groups. Sometimes they are even compilations of design competition entries or student projects. Most usually just end up collecting dust on the shelves of some City office somewhere, or at the library, because of their extensive scope, magnificent costs, changes in attitudes toward architecture/planning, or pie-in-the-sky nature.


By the way, in the 1960s, even Cedarburg wanted to get in on the popular urban planning ideas of the time. There was a plan recommending coverting Washington Avenue into a pedestrian mall with plazas, fountains, landscaping, etc., and ringing the downtown area with surface parking. Of course instead of doing that, as you know, Cedarburg put an emphasis on restoring its historic buildings and limiting new modern construction in the business district, keeping the small town "Main Street" vibe in tact quite successfully.

[ReddAlert II]

I really like this Zilber guy. A waterfall? It sounds crazy, but it look great in that location. I hope they can somehow light up at a night with different color schemes--like they do with Niagra Falls after dark. Seriously, it sounds too good to be true to me. The resturants sound imaginative and a rock climbing area could be a cool addition to downtown. Not to mention the other residental, retail, and office space.

[CGII]

I believe (though am not certain) that the plan was created by something of a task force for the city. Unfortunately, since I start school on Wednesday, I don't have the chance to check again.

The plan didn't exactly cover all of downtown, but focused heavily on Wisconsin Avenue. At Mecca and Grand Avenue were to be towers near equal in height to Faison or 411, and with styling that brings to mind Jahn's Park East.

As well, it touched on the renovation of MacArthur Square, featuring several drawings and diagrams showing flow patterns for a new park.

The lakfront hotels were about 4 to 6 floors tall, clearly brutalist, with angled walls nearing the base (think Solow or Grace buildings in NY, but flat instead of curved).

And the elevated pedestrian corridors were proposed only in select areas, I believe from the Riverside Theater West along Wisconsin Avenue to the Hilton/Schroeder. There would also be elevated walkways on Water between Wisconsin and Mason and Milwaukee between Wisconsin and Mason.

I can't recall much else, but those were the big details, but I can tell you it certainly pie in the sky. I think I laughed seeing some sort of roundabout for buses terminate Wisconsin Avenue at the lake being overlooked by these imposing brutalist hotels and all the concrete.

I'm interested in those early 20th century plans. Had Burnham proposed one? If you wouldn't mind, I'd love to hear more on those.

[Markitect]

From the Business Journal:

Lake Pointe taking shape
BY PETE MILLARD

The proposed $207 million Lake Pointe Tower has secured one anchor tenant and is in negotiations with Robert W. Baird & Co. Inc. to become the second major tenant in the 43-story building that would be built in downtown Milwaukee.

The two anchor tenants are crucial to moving forward with the much-talked about office tower that would be just south of the U.S. Bank Tower, 777 E. Wisconsin Ave. The structure is currently the tallest building in Milwaukee at 42 floors.

The building would be developed by JBK Properties Inc., Milwaukee, at the intersection of East Michigan and North Cass streets.

U.S. Bank is committed to occupying two floors in the proposed building. said Bill Bertha, president of U.S. Bank Wisconsin. U.S. Bank is a partner in the development of Lake Pointe. The bank currently occupies about 300,000 square feet in the U.S. Bank Tower, which is also owned by the bank. In addition, the bank has leased office space in the 811 E. Wisconsin building and the Lewis Center, 606 E. Wisconsin Ave.

Baird, a Milwaukee brokerage and investment firm, is considering relocating part of it's downtown operations from the U.S. Bank Tower to Lake Pointe. Baird is negotiating with U.S. Bank on renewing it's lease that expires in 2009 for 250,000 square feet on 10 floors of the 33 year old U.S. Bank Tower, said Joe Ullrich, a bank vice president involved in the negotiations.

"Baird is looking for a number of possibilities", he said.

John Rumpf, a Baird spokesman, said the company will complete a needs assessment and make a decision this fall on its office space.

Westin Deal

Lake Pointe Tower has also secured a commitment from Starwood Hotels & Resorts Worldwide, Inc., Whiteplains, N.Y., to open a 214-room Westin Milwaukee Hotel in the building said Ullrich. In addition, Lake Pointe would include retail shops, and 34 condominiums on the top 14 floors.

Ted Matkon, a vice president for JBK Properties, declined to comment on the tower's tenants or design.

The Lake Pointe Tower would replace a parking structure owned by U.S. Bank. The building would become a prominent gateway to downtown Milwaukee, Bertha said. "Our skyline could use a boost". he said.

The proposed building's architecture would enhance the image of the city's skyline and fit well with other buildings along Milwaukee's lakefront, said Jim Barry III, president of Collier Barry, a Milwaukee real estate brokerage and development firm.

The building's design, which is not yet completed, will compliment the Santiago Calatrava-designed addition to the Milwaukee Art Museum and the Discovery World at Pier Wisconsin, said Bertha.

As part of the plan for Lake Pointe, the city of Milwaukee is planning to upgrade East Michigan Street with a promenade from the lakefront west to North Water St. Pedestrian-friendly landscaping and additional parking will be added around East Michigan Street, said Bertha.

The office portion and retail shops of the building would occupy the majority of the bottom 12 - 15 floors of the building with the hotel taking up the next rung of floors.

The best views in the high-rise building will be reserved for condos at the top. The condos would be sold unfinished, allowing owners to design their own space. The condos would sell for up to $425 per square foot.

http://gharc.com/gparc/img/portfolio1_1.jpg
^ A rendering of Lake Pointe Tower as seen from behind the Art Museum.

http://gharc.com/gparc/img/portfolio1_3.jpg
^ A cross-section of Lake Pointe Tower.

[CGII]

Well, it looks loads better than it did in that early 'rendering,' but it still looks awful in my eyes. It needs a good bit of tweaking, and it could really be a stunning building, which is, of course, what's being done with the design right now. But I'm positively sick of trying to compliment the Calatrava...honestly, if we keep that mindset we'll get more ugly shit on the lakefront like the first design for Pier Wisconsin. Architects seem to forget that there is an entire city and lakefront that interact more with the building's design than one small, low slung building. Alone, it is a masterpiece, but if we try to clutter its surroundings with 'buildings that compliment' it, it will lose all value and become some redundant sculpture on the lake.

The improvements for Michigan Avenue are the most attractive things to this proposal...and it's about damn time those imposing bus garages and cargo ports are covered up or something done about.

By the way, can anybody read those numbers on that 'blueprint?' It would be great to have a direct source for heights other than estimation in the diagrams database. (I see now it is considerably taller and more attractive than the earlier rendering led it to be, and it shows in my particularily unflattering drawing of it: http://skyscraperpage.com/cities/?buildingID=47869).

[Steely Dan]

http://gharc.com/gparc/img/portfolio1_1.jpg
^ A rendering of Lake Pointe Tower as seen from behind the Art Museum.

http://gharc.com/gparc/img/portfolio1_3.jpg
^ A cross-section of Lake Pointe Tower.

wow! so this project is still alive, huh? pretty cool.

the shape is rather unconventional. it kinda reminds me of the proposal to replace the parking garage on the river just south of Chase. also, it might be odd having the two tallest in the city so close in height and so close to each other, but i'm really digging the fully-mixed-use sound of this project.

[CGII]

The skyline impact will be the worst part of it, but the economic and entertainment aspects are what's the biggest, most redeeming factours. I can never help thinking when driving West along I94 that the skyline builds up from the North and then just cuts off at the tallest building. It will look really oddly placed and sort of dull the skyline. But don't let my whining give you the wrong idea about this project. I really hope it gets built (with some design tweaks), not to mention that its proximity to the lake will be fantastic.

[Markitect]

http://gharc.com/gparc/img/portfolio1_2.jpg

[Steely Dan]

^ hey mark, this is some pretty damn big skyscraper news for milwaukee, and i was just wondering if maybe this lake point tower project might warrant its own thread to allow the vast majority of forumers who don't frequent this thread to become aware of it. would it be cool if i went ahead and started a thread for it in the highrises subforum? or you could start it too, i ain't trying to steal nobody's thunder. whaddaya think?

[Oshkosh49]

The skyline impact will be the worst part of it, but the economic and entertainment aspects are what's the biggest, most redeeming factours. I can never help thinking when driving West along I94 that the skyline builds up from the North and then just cuts off at the tallest building. It will look really oddly placed and sort of dull the skyline. But don't let my whining give you the wrong idea about this project. I really hope it gets built (with some design tweaks), not to mention that its proximity to the lake will be fantastic.What tweaks would you make to the design of the LPT?:)

[Markitect]

^ hey mark, this is some pretty damn big skyscraper news for milwaukee, and i was just wondering if maybe this lake point tower project might warrant its own thread to allow the vast majority of forumers who don't frequent this thread to become aware of it. would it be cool if i went ahead and started a thread for it in the highrises subforum? or you could start it too, i ain't trying to steal nobody's thunder. whaddaya think?

I'd rather hold off on that until we know for sure that this is actually going to get built.

[Steely Dan]

I'd rather hold off on that until we know for sure that this is actually going to get built.


fair enough, but it's absolutely impossible to know if any project is ever going to be built until..... well..... the thing is actually being built. if you want to wait that long, i suppose i'll respect that, but i'd rather let the rest of the forum become aware of this project regardless of whether or not it's ever built. people create project specific threads all the time without knowing whether a given proposal will actually move to the construction phase. that's part of the fun of this whole forum; getting excited about skyscraper proposals that may never go anywhere.

[Markitect]

But I'm positively sick of trying to compliment the Calatrava...honestly, if we keep that mindset we'll get more ugly shit on the lakefront like the first design for Pier Wisconsin. Architects seem to forget that there is an entire city and lakefront that interact more with the building's design than one small, low slung building. Alone, it is a masterpiece, but if we try to clutter its surroundings with 'buildings that compliment' it, it will lose all value and become some redundant sculpture on the lake.

Do not confuse "compliment" with "mimic," because there is a big difference in the meaning of those two concepts, and how they are applied to architecture and urban design.

Lake Pointe Tower compliments the Calatrava, in that it's a bold, unconventional design with a very expressive structure...just like the museum. They are both eye-catching, each in their own ways, because one is a 40+ story skyscraper and the other is a low-slung museum. LPT is cleary designed to be well-integrated into the urban fabric, while MAM is obviously designed to be a sculptural piece set out on its own at the edge of the urban fabric.

Now compare those concepts to the original design for Pier Wisconsin (http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showpost.php?p=194565&postcount=15), which was clearly an example of a building that tired to mimic, rather than compliment, the Art Museum...right down to the low-slung massing, upward swooping walls, and cable supports.

[CGII]

Lake Pointe Tower compliments the Calatrava, in that it's a bold, unconventional design with a very expressive structure...just like the museum. They are both eye-catching, each in their own ways, because one is a 40+ story skyscraper and the other is a low-slung museum. LPT is cleary designed to be well-integrated into the urban fabric, while MAM is obviously designed to be a sculptural piece set out on its own at the edge of the urban fabric.
Fair enough, I guess what I'm trying to say moreso is that developers are concentrating far too much on the Calatrava.
In my post I wasn't trying to deride Lake Pointe Tower as focusing on the Calatrava too much as much as to say that people sometimes it seems people think the only building of note in this city is the Calatrava (I should have made that more clear), and that to revolve a design solely around the MAM (even if decent) is rather silly.
What tweaks would you make to the design of the LPT?:)
Most of the massing and certainly the colour of the design is very nice, but the trouble for me (right now) are the details. Things like the pillars seen in the first rendering that soar over the building near the top look kind of awkward, as does the canopy that it meets. That canopy compromises the verticality of the building, though it certainly could work better if it didn't overhang the front of the building so severely. What's irritating to me is how the cuvature ends farther to the West at the top than where it begins, which makes it look awkward and fat near the bottom. Best case scenario the curve would stop at the top directly above where it commences. I'll make a few sketches outlining what I think it should look a little more like. ;)

By the way, in that latter rendering (by far the most attractive), it looks as if the North section of the tower, not only a pedestrian promenade, actually is built over Michigan Avenue. Wow, that would be so great.


As well, I agree with Steely Dan that an individual thread should be made. It's a big project, and the vast majourity of projects in the other forum have the same status as this.

[Markitect]

By the way, in that latter rendering (by far the most attractive), it looks as if the North section of the tower, not only a pedestrian promenade, actually is built over Michigan Avenue. Wow, that would be so great.

No, the building does not span over Michigan Street. That's an illusion in the rendering due to the angle of the perspective and the short "crooked" segment at the end of Michigan Street that is skewed of the regular east-west street grid.

[neuhickman79]

I think a thread should be made for LPT, too!

[Steely Dan]

I think a thread should be made for LPT, too!
well, the motion has been thirded, so here's the thread:

MILWAUKEE: Lake Pointe Tower - 43 floors (http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?p=2289906#post2289906)

[BANKofMANHATTAN]

Lake Pointe Tower resembles Portland's proposal for the Broadway Tower...

I think i like this one just a bit more.

[djcody]

God damn SSC is down again or something is wrong with my pc.

[WIRICK]

This is my first posting. I would really like to see this built, but I do hope that the design is refined abit more. I think that LPT could easily become a signature tower if it were to become 50 stories (minimum). I would hope that the developers would look at this as a huge opportunity to design a "world class" tower in Milwaukee . I also think that the design would be better served if it were narrowed at the base, I think that would enhance the sail-like design.

[Oshkosh49]

God damn SSC is down again or something is wrong with my pc.No, the Website is down.

[Eriol]

How I hate the term "world class".

[WIRICK]

OK... world class" might be overstated. I just think that this building, with some design tweaks could be recognizable for the rights reasons.

[djcody]

hey wirick, i agree dude, at least 50 storys and maybe better centrally located in the city to give the city a more peak skyline versus having the cingular bars:
^
^^
^^^
^^^^

[Nowhereman1280]

I think between LPT, all the development of short high rise and low rises in the Third Ward, and the 18 story Marriot that is proposed for Milwaukee and Broadway, that the Cingular bars effect just might be on its way out. Having thar Marriot built would help the most I think, just the concept of having something of skyscraper high south of 794 would help alot with dimishing the cliffness of the skyline.

Another comment, I think the whole Third Ward/Lakefront area is becomming quite the area. There is such a modern theme developing in Milwaukee architecture lately. I like all the white stuff that is getting build/is already in existance. There is the US Bank building, The Calatrava, the Sixth Street bridge, which are soon to be joined by the University Club Tower and Amtrak renovation, all white and very sleek/modern designs. I say they paint the Hoan Bridge and Marquette Innerchange white as well! I don't like the tan color they are "staining" the cement in the MI project.

[CGII]

I think a lot of people are missing the point. The location of this tower is perfect, currently a piece of shit two level parking garage that yells at pedestrians to get the fuck away from it. It's just a couple hundred feet from Pier Wisconsin, the MAM, and Summerfest (and those are only the attractions on the lake, not to mention what's in the city), and to say this tower should be built somewhere else is rather perplexing to me.

As well, not to be NIMBYish, but I wouldn't want a 50 storey building here, right next to the USBank. Now, if USBank said they wanted LPT to be 50 storeys, I'd cheer it all the way, but I think the height is pretty good as is. Making LPT taller than USBank would undo all the progress of balancing out the skyline, as well as blow the already awkward proportions out of wack. Yeah, I want a new tallest too, but I don't want it to be LPT.

Nowhereman:practically the same sentiments here. The current trend of white buildings for more landmarkish buildings is fantastic, especially along the lakefront, which is already completely unrecognizable from simply 7 years ago. Milwaukee is becoming a permanent, modern 'White City,' if you will. ;)
I'd like to see the Post Office redone in something that would respect the current 'clean' ttheme in Milwaukee design (but not necessarily be white). If only the Post Office would expnd on how they want it replaced...

[djcody]

Oh dang, I totally forgot about the Marriot in the third ward. Your right tho, once they start developing more of the third ward it will balance out the skyline.

When do you think we'll ever get a new tallest? Be serious with your replies please. I'm curious what kind of time frame we're looking at.

[Markitect]

Balance, shmalance.

Cities are developed on economics, pure and simple...that's what determines how tall buildings will be and on which plots of land within the city they will be built. Developers needn't be concerned about balance or symmetry or skylines at all. There are underlying reasons (literally) as to why Milwaukee's skyline is the way it is.


As for if/when Milwaukee will ever get a new tallest...that all really depends, as always, on the economy. The demand has to be there...economic demand...not demand of skyscraper geeks or people with civic inferiority complexes. If/when it makes sense for a developer to build something taller than the current tallest, they will...but they're not going to do it just for the sake of doing it.

Assuming Lake Pointe Tower (which has several hurdles to clear before even becoming a for sure thing) wouldn't become the new tallest, the wait for a new tallest may be a while yet.

I'd like to see the Post Office redone in something that would respect the current 'clean' ttheme in Milwaukee design (but not necessarily be white). If only the Post Office would expnd on how they want it replaced...

The Downtown Post Office is not being replaced, at least for the time being. They gave up on that a few years ago when they got a long-term extension on their lease.

Within the past couple of weeks there have been reports that the Post Office is looking around to build a huge new facility somewhere in the area, but those plans don't have anything to do with relocating/replacing the Downtown facility. That may change, or it may not; we'll just have to wait and see.

[Skyking]

hey wirick, i agree dude, at least 50 storys and maybe better centrally located in the city to give the city a more peak skyline versus having the cingular bars:
^
^^
^^^
^^^^

Whooaa! Hold on there with your talk of locating Lake Pointe Tower in the Center of Downtown. First of all, yes, economics drives where building are located - period. The spot where LPT is being considered is absolutely perfect for this type of mixed-use project. That is, on the lake where you can better sell condos and rent hotel rooms. Plus, why would US Bank build away from their current tower? No, this is a great, great location, and I believe a new tallest there would NOT help disperse the skyline at all.

Hopefully, some day (in the not too near future I'm afraid) a new tallest - something 50-55 stories resembling Cleveland's Key Tower - will be built; like on that block with a bunch of surface parking directly east of the Pfister. I think the biggest waste of prime space might be that block directly west of US Bank. Northwestern Mutual has that stupid-looking, terribly-dated 7-8 story building with a ton of open surface parking to the south. What the "H" is this space being saved for?!

Speaking of Northwestern Mutual (it sure was a helluvalot easier saying "NML" before they dropped Mutual from their official name), the movers and fakers who call themselves city planners in Milwaukee should be tarred and feathered for letting NML (there, I said it) build a million frickin' square feet of new office space in Franklin: about 500,000 sq. ft. exist, with another half a mil or so planned to go up very soon. The aforementioned block due west of US Bank is kitty corner from NML, and would've handled a million sq. feet nicely -- say in a 50-60 story tower that included underground and first few floors of parking, ala Faison.

Then, Manpower (God bless them for coming Downtown, sort of) builds a new 200,000 sq. ft. HQ that looks like, well...not much. The new development is good for the area, but this city does not have enough big boys left who are capable of going big (Kohl's in Menomonee Falls, GE in Tosa etc.). Looks like mixed-use will have to be the best chance for future office towers.

And, while I'm on a roll, does anyone really hope that the Irgens proposal gets off the ground? I mean, c'mon. While the initial rendering looked ok, why the hell would you bother with a stubby-looking 22-story building just north of the Marcus Center for the Performing Arts (again, it was alot easier saying the PAC!) The location is wonderful along the river, next to a nice venue, on the happenin' Water St and kitty corner from Red Arrow Park. So, I urge Irgens and the Marcus Corp. to consider a trendier-looking building for that site, something not so boxy-looking and at least 30 stories for goodness sake. You can take the same sq. footage as originally proposed and develop something sleeker and taller with a signature top and come in at 450 feet or better.

[Eriol]

Back about 15 years ago or so NML bought the block west of the First Wisconsin building and planned to put up a 40 or 50 story. They tore down the building that was on the south side of the block for it, hence the parking lot now. At the same time, FW was going to put up something bigger where the Lake Point(e) Tower is to go now. And another nice project was planned for the block east of the FW. Then the economy tanked and that all changed.

[Steely Dan]

Balance, shmalance.

Cities are developed on economics, pure and simple...that's what determines how tall buildings will be and on which plots of land within the city they will be built. Developers needn't be concerned about balance or symmetry or skylines at all. There are underlying reasons (literally) as to why Milwaukee's skyline is the way it is.


As for if/when Milwaukee will ever get a new tallest...that all really depends, as always, on the economy. The demand has to be there...economic demand...not demand of skyscraper geeks or people with civic inferiority complexes. If/when it makes sense for a developer to build something taller than the current tallest, they will...but they're not going to do it just for the sake of doing it.


it's not always that clear-cut, at least not in a city like chicago. yes, skyscrapers are generally the products of economic equations, but the city of chicago has definitely steered where they have gone over the years by zoning some land for very tall buildings while only allowing buildings of more modest stature in other areas. the shape and nature of chicago's skyline is not purely an economic equation, there were other forces at work. such as with the sears tower, which wasn't initially planned as a WTB, but when the first mayor daley heard of sears' plans, the city made a full-on push to get the company to reach for the sky to one-up NYC, even forgoing a certain degree of economic sense along the way.

skyscrapers do need to make sense finacially, but it's not always a clear-cut case of raw economics that brings the tallest towers into existance. civic pride and ego play a very important supporting role, at least in chicago's case.

[Oshkosh49]

Steely, I think that in reference to the city of Milwaukee, Markitect's point about economics is dead on. Chicago on the other hand as you correctly describe is an animal of different stripes. Chicago is the behemoth of middle America. Therefore, if other factors such as competitive ego or pride come into play verses New York or Los Angeles or Toronto, it is because Chicago is a city of worldly stature. Milwaukee on the other hand, doesn't have the standing that Chicago has in regards to factors outside of economics. Big developers like Donald Trump aren't going to put a 50 storey speculative development in Milwaukee like the 96 storey Trump International Hotel & Tower located in Chicago. In my mind, because of the conservative nature and the relatively small metro area of Milwaukee, it will always boil down to economics. You agree, yes, no?

[CGII]

Balance, shmalance.

Cities are developed on economics, pure and simple...that's what determines how tall buildings will be and on which plots of land within the city they will be built. Developers needn't be concerned about balance or symmetry or skylines at all. There are underlying reasons (literally) as to why Milwaukee's skyline is the way it is.
I should have rephrased myself. I am in complete agreement with you, but what I'm trying to say is that from a purely aesthetic standpoint I would not like a 50 storey LPT (as was the case for the people who wanted a 50 storey LPT solely for aesthetic reasons). Economically, I urge all feasible and decently designed projects and it's pretty damn clear that it's virtually all that drives developement.

[g3forc305]

Balance, shmalance.

Cities are developed on economics, pure and simple...that's what determines how tall buildings will be and on which plots of land within the city they will be built. Developers needn't be concerned about balance or symmetry or skylines at all. There are underlying reasons (literally) as to why Milwaukee's skyline is the way it is.


As for if/when Milwaukee will ever get a new tallest...that all really depends, as always, on the economy. The demand has to be there...economic demand...not demand of skyscraper geeks or people with civic inferiority complexes. If/when it makes sense for a developer to build something taller than the current tallest, they will...but they're not going to do it just for the sake of doing it.

I have to disagree with this assumption. Cities aren't developed solely on economics, but rather a mix of various items that all merge into one.

Perfect example would be the PabstCity project that was a great vision (in my opinion) for the Northwest side of downtown as it would have definitely kept up the city's borders with the north and west sides, pushing up the values in the surrounding areas and helping further expansion into those areas where now it would be nearly impossible to forge a great development. Also, with PabstCity it would have been Milwaukee's ability to showcase itself as more of a world-class city instead of becoming Chicagoland's northern suburb.

What happened to this? Politics entered in it, citizen groups concerned about their own ideas stepped all over the project. It failed in the Common Council because of these ideas. I know some will say that WisPark asked too much for TIFs and grants to aide in this constuction, but it would have definitely been worth it.

Milwaukee's common council leaders don't see how much of an impact residents of Illinois are having on this city, especially those from the northern suburbs of Chicago. They claim it would have failed partially because people from northern Illinois wouldn't come here. Now, more so than ever, people from those suburbs are coming here in droves, buying up our condos and taking up our boat-slips.

As for developers being concerned with how the city looks or not, they should be. As I've stated, politics and citizen opinions count greatly in this city - if they can't win those two over, as well as the economic standpoint, they won't have their building built.

Downtown Milwaukee needs more high rise buildings on its northern edge, where the former Park East stood. Has anyone seen how much land that is?! Developers in Chicago or any other major city would LOVE the amounts of land between streets to construct something wonderous.

Milwaukee can do it if it has confidence in itself to do it. We as a city do have a chance to make something great. Why not at least try?

[Steely Dan]

Steely, I think that in reference to the city of Milwaukee, Markitect's point about economics is dead on. Chicago on the other hand as you correctly describe is an animal of different stripes. Chicago is the behemoth of middle America. Therefore, if other factors such as competitive ego or pride come into play verses New York or Los Angeles or Toronto, it is because Chicago is a city of worldly stature. Milwaukee on the other hand, doesn't have the standing that Chicago has in regards to factors outside of economics. Big developers like Donald Trump aren't going to put a 50 storey speculative development in Milwaukee like the 96 storey Trump International Hotel & Tower located in Chicago. In my mind, because of the conservative nature and the relatively small metro area of Milwaukee, it will always boil down to economics. You agree, yes, no?

no i don't agree. i don't think that the game of building signature skyscrapers boils down to raw economic equations anywhere. don't get me wrong, economics certainly play the largest role in any private development, but for signature projects, ego is always lurking around every corner. look at nashville and their proposed 1,050' signature tower. nashville has not reached a point of critical mass in its downtown where the economics are forcing what will be america's tallest building outside of NYC/chicago to be built, it's the civic pride and ego of the developers who are striving to give a new signature to the city of nashville, while also hoping to make a buck or two in the process, that are driving the city into the stratosphere.

money is key. it's always key. but on top of that, our cities are also built by dreamers, sometimes they conjure up impossible dreams, but the fact that they dream those dreams means that there is something more to city building than raw economics.

for milwaukee to see a new tallest skyscraper, it will take an appropriate market, to be sure, but it will also require a bold, risk-taking man of vision who sees something larger than mere balance sheets and revenue graphs.

[Skyking]

Don't even get me started on that Park East corridor mess! The County and City "leaders" can't even decide what kind of a development they want there. I hope they approve the larger of the two proposals on the table - it seems like a no-brainer from a tax revenue standpoint, and who wants a gas station there?! Here we tear down a freeway - perhaps ugly and a barrier, but convenient - and open up all sorts of potentially-great space for new development. But, once AGAIN(!), it seems no plan was developed for what would work best in this new space.

And, sorry, but there's talk that developers are starting to look away from doing business in Milwaukee because the politicians first screwed things up by mandating a percentage of business to minority contractors (what happened to free enterprise and awarding contracts based on quality and price?), and they still don't have a clue. There's still time to comprise a plan for Park East, but the more I hear talk of developing some low to middle income housing in this area, I just have to wonder what some people are thinking. :koko:

I say we use that space along the Park East corridor and build a new Miller Park there -- with a different type of retractable roof (like one that works).

Enough whining from me...what I really do like, and, I mean this turning into an awesome area, is the Third Ward. Had some relatives in from San Diego about a month ago, and they just raved about it - said it's better than the Gaslamp Quarter in San Diego. I agree 100%, having been to San Diego four times in the past five years. We really have a gem in the Third Ward - and it continues to grow. While it doesn't do anything for Milwaukee's skyline, it is a major boon to the vibrancy of Downtown.

Speaking of San Diego, most people outside of that awesome city know there is a height restriction of 500 feet on all buildings due to the close proximity to their airport. San Diego is throwing up building after new building with none taller than 500 feet, but that skyline is becoming quite dramatic. Imagine, Milwaukee has two buildings taller than San Diego...with hopefully a third (LPT) on the way.

[Skyking]

I gotta proof my stuff better before submitting...

(From above) Speaking of San Diego, most people outside of that awesome city DON'T know there is a height restriction of 500 feet on all buildings due to the close proximity to their airport. San Diego is throwing up building after new building with none taller than 500 feet, but that skyline is becoming quite dramatic. Imagine, Milwaukee has two buildings taller than San Diego...with hopefully a third (LPT) on the way.

[Markitect]

Yes, there are things like zoning, politics, and egos that do play a supporting role in how cities develop, to be sure...but they take a back seat to ecomomics. And by economics, I don't just mean balance sheets, revenue graphs, and returns on investments for individual developers, but also the broader economic scope of whole cities/regions on a national, and even international scale.

[Markitect]

I gotta proof my stuff better before submitting...

There's an "Edit" button, so you can go back and fix up your original message, rather than making a new post with your fixed message.

[g3forc305]

Great point, the broader economic scope is also a big factor....and Milwaukee has completely f'ed that one up tremendously with rejections of anything that's new and different to the city, and has put down so many restrictions to lands that clearly have enormous potential.

All in all the situation isn't a good one until this city (or should I say its leaders) can get its own ego under control.

[Steely Dan]

Yes, there are things like zoning, politics, and egos that do play a supporting role in how cities develop, to be sure...but they take a back seat to ecomomics. And by economics, I don't just mean balance sheets, revenue graphs, and returns on investments for individual developers, but also the broader economic scope of whole cities/regions on a national, and even international scale.
of course economics, both micro and macroscopic, play the biggest role, i never refuted that, but cities are not always "developed on economics, pure and simple". there are dreams involved, and dreams are very important, for any city.

make no little plans.

[Skyking]

There's an "Edit" button, so you can go back and fix up your original message, rather than making a new post with your fixed message.

Thanks, Markitect.

[CGII]

There's an "Edit" button, so you can go back and fix up your original message, rather than making a new post with your fixed message.
The irony being that you made this message with a second post. ;)

[ReddAlert II]

I think a lot of people are missing the point. The location of this tower is perfect, currently a piece of shit two level parking garage that yells at pedestrians to get the fuck away from it. It's just a couple hundred feet from Pier Wisconsin, the MAM, and Summerfest (and those are only the attractions on the lake, not to mention what's in the city), and to say this tower should be built somewhere else is rather perplexing to me.
...

good post CGII. This is the perfect location for this tower and the reason why people would spend the kind of money to live in it. The surrounding area is without a doubt the most spectacular area of Milwaukee--with the landmark MAM, Pier Wisconsin, and of course that big body of water. Not to mention the parks, dining, Summerfest, and the incredible views.


And this is off topic but..do you guys think that Menard could possibly fund a new arena for Milwaukee or buy the Bucks? I of course knew he was rich, but I heard on Bob and Brian today that he is like in the 40's for the Forbes richest men. And where do you guys think a new arena should be built if they decide to go that route?

[Eriol]

A couple of weeks ago I saw a report on one of the sports casts, I think TMJ, saying that Mark Attanasio was talking with Kohl, suggesting that he was interested in buying the Bucks. Since then, not a word, which may mean anything.

Also, the Bradley Center board is reconsidering a major overhaul again with the idea that they can make it viable for years to come, which would be nice considering it's only 18 years old.

Now I want to know what's going on with the soccer stadium and MLS team.

[CGII]

I really think it is unnecessary to build a new arena, the Bradley Center is a fantastic venue that the Buck's can't fill up anyway. But if it positively must be done, do it by replacing the Arena, and give the Arena's previous uses to the Bradley Center.

[sensei]

Speaking of the Bucks, what's up with their new colors, PINK and GREEN?
Who's the jackass that decided on that?
Those two colors go well together.
Shit, bring back the purple.
Even red and green don't match. Christmas colors.
The Green Bay Packers are GREEN and **YELLOW** and the Bucks are PINK and GREEN.
Blech.

[Skyking]

Speaking of the Bucks, what's up with their new colors, PINK and GREEN?
Who's the jackass that decided on that?
Those two colors go well together.
Shit, bring back the purple.
Even red and green don't match. Christmas colors.
The Green Bay Packers are GREEN and **YELLOW** and the Bucks are PINK and GREEN.
Blech.

Ahem...the Bucks new (and old, again) colors ARE RED and green. Where are you getting the pink from? While I personally don't mind the red and green together (ho, ho, ho), I wish the Bucks would've updated that wall mounted trophy that passes as the logo. I mean, it's lifeless and difficult to relate to...especially for younger kids -- and they're the ones who pester their parents to buy them the merchandise!
Now, I'm not suggesting they go back to that cutesy cartoon-like "buck" they used to have, but something with a bold. brashy look -- maybe showing from a three-quarter angle to give it some depth.
That's enough on this. Let's talk about the better proposal winning out today for Park East corridor: Ruvin Development. This was a much better choice given the scope of the project and the more upscale hotel. Here's to you, Ruvin (and Rana Enterprises for your effort)! :cheers:

[ReddAlert II]

The new bucks jerseys are going to be awesome. Trust me. Its a dark green and red. The away jerseys look almost black and red.

The logo could use a spruceing up though. The Bucks head in the triange is a bit plain. It should be an angry looking Buck, not a dead one...perhaps with its antlers in a more threating position. BTW...what do you people think about the new Admirals logo? A cartooon skull with a Captian crunch hat?

[CGII]

Wait, Skyking, I haven't heard anything about it, but has the Ruvin proposal been favoured since they passed it on to the County Board?

EDIT:
I just looked it up on JSOnline. This is great news everyone, I'm delightedly happy to see such a fine project gain approval in this town. A toast for Ruvin.

Luxury hotel for Park East area approved
By TOM DAYKIN
tdaykin@journalsentinel.com
Posted: Sept. 28, 2006

A proposal for a luxury hotel, condominiums, offices and retail space in downtown Milwaukee's Park East area won approval today from the County Board, which voted to sell a county-owned site for the development.

The board voted 16-3 to sell the parcel, bordered by N. Old World 3rd and N. 4th streets and W. Juneau and W. McKinley avenues, to a group led by Ruvin Development Inc. and Dallas-based Gatehouse Capital Corp. Their plan calls for a 175-room hotel, 70 condos, 55,000 square feet of offices, 31,000 square feet of retail space and a 330-car parking structure.

In making that decision, the board rejected a rival proposal, from Rana Enterprises. Rana proposed a 202-room hotel, a gas station/convenience store, 14,000 square feet of offices, 9,000 square feet of additional retail space and a 400-car parking structure.

Robert Ruvin, Ruvin Development president, said the development firm plans to begin site preparation work within 90 days. He said he expects to begin construction on the new building within a year. It will take 18 months to 24 months to complete the project once construction begins, Ruvin said.

The three supervisors who voted against selling the land to Ruvin and Gatehouse were Toni Clark, Elizabeth Coggs-Jones and James White.

Today's vote came two months after the proposals were initially presented to the board's Committee on Economic and Community Development. The committee, at a special meeting before the board meeting, recommended approval for the Rana proposal. That occurred two weeks after the committee declined to make a decision on recommending a proposal.

County development officials said Ruvin's proposal would generate annual property taxes of just more than $2 million, compared with roughly $626,000 that Rana's development would generate each year.

Ruvin would create 500 construction jobs, while Rana would create 131 to 154 construction jobs, according to the developers. Ruvin offered to buy the parcel for $2.9 million, compared with $2.8 million offered by Rana.

Also, Rana Enterprises President C.A. Rana said he would guarantee a $500,000 payment to a county fund to help develop affordable housing in Milwaukee. He had previously guaranteed a $150,000 payment for that effort.

Meanwhile, Ruvin officials emphasized their partnership with Gatehouse, which has developed luxury hotels in Los Angeles, San Diego and Dallas. Ruvin's projects include the $35 million conversion of the 169-unit Blatz Apartments, 270 E. Highland Ave., into condos.

Rana is known for operating Milwaukee-area gas stations and convenience stores. Also, Rana once worked for a firm that has developed mid-price hotels in Canada.

http://graphics.jsonline.com/graphics/photographer/17/1798_large.jpg

[Steely Dan]

^ HOLY SMOKES! that shit is hot!

way to go milwaukee.

[Eriol]

The Admirals logo grew on me some. It's definitely fresh. Possibly the coolest logo in minor league hockey, anyway.

The Bucks uniforms back in the 70's and 80's with the green and red and white stripes on the sides were the best. Sidney Moncrief!

[Steely Dan]

here's a ground level perspective of that dope-ass ruvin project. i count 21 floors.

http://graphics.jsonline.com/graphics/news/img/sep06/ruvin_hotel.jpg

[Skyking]

The Admirals logo grew on me some. It's definitely fresh. Possibly the coolest logo in minor league hockey, anyway.

That new logo for the Admirals is...well, dumb-looking to say the least. I can understand that sports teams need to change look from time to time for two main reasons:
First, to get fans interested and sell merchandise; and second, to be hip and stay with the times, man.
In the case of the Admirals, I can't imagine they realize much revenue at all due to merchandising (perhaps they'll sell a few more season tix...but, probably not) because they are strictly a local team with a small - albeit loyal - following. And, as for them changing the logo to be current with fashion, somebody sold them a bill of goods with that design. Is that skeleton head that of a dead admiral? Last I checked, skeletons can't skate very well, primarily because they're...oh yeah, DEAD!!! Where is the connection with an admiral?! I wish the Admirals would have stated why they think this logo is a good one -- probably, because they can't! And the oh so trendy black color, ooooh, so cool -- and soooo done already. Match the black with the blue and white and a dead guy with a stupid grin wearing a hat and you get one dumb-ass logo. Sorry. That's just one opinion from a dumb ass...
What's going on with Lake Pointe? Ghazi? The Renaissance Hotel project in the Third Ward?

[Skyking]

Why do you think this Ruvin design is "dope-ass" Steely Dan?

[ChicagoBruce]

^^^^I think the newspaper article said 20 floors. That is fantastic. The Park East is finally starting to take shape.

I'm glad they picked this one, a mid-rise built above a gas station is a bit odd.

[Skyking]

Like him or not, Mark Belling is a sharp cookie and is well-connected and informed. I read where he says a major project is being planned --the largest ever in the area -- for some 500 condos to be built south of Downtown. If there's any truth to this, wondering if it's in the Third Ward...
Anyone else hear anything about this?

[Steely Dan]

Why do you think this Ruvin design is "dope-ass" Steely Dan?

because i love it. it's beautiful. i love the staggered window pattern and the way in which it opens up the building as it rises, fading away to the nothingness of the sky itself. it looks like it will also have a very inviting street level presence with big welcoming glass wall retail spaces. of course, a lot of the potential success of the design will come down to materials and execution (just as with any design), but it looks fantastic on paper thus far. this could be the coolest thing built in milwaukee since calatrava's bird.

http://graphics.jsonline.com/graphics/news/img/sep06/ruvin_hotel.jpg

[Skyking]

^^^^I think the newspaper article said 20 floors. That is fantastic. The Park East is finally starting to take shape.

I'm glad they picked this one, a mid-rise built above a gas station is a bit odd.

Agreed. A gas station, however nicely-appointed, just doesn't seem to fit in this area. And while I sort of liked the rendering of Rana's plan, I think we're starting to get "white happy" with all of the new (and proposed) buildings in this town. The Ruvin design looks a bit quirky, but that's ok -- we need a blend of looks and this is a significant development...sans gas pumps, thank goodness.

[Skyking]

because i love it. it's beautiful. i love the staggered window pattern and the way in which it opens up the building as it rises, fading away to the nothingness of the sky itself. it looks like it will also have a very inviting street level presence with big welcoming glass wall retail spaces. of course, a lot of the potential success of the design will come down to materials and execution (just as with any design), but it looks fantastic on paper thus far. this could be the coolest thing built in milwaukee since calatrava's bird.

Well put. I guess I thought you were being sarcastic. The staggered windows do represent something different for Milwaukee. It seems Calatrava really opened up the previously-provincial look of the buildings here.

[Steely Dan]

I guess I thought you were being sarcastic.
nope. no sarcasm what-so-ever. this project looks amazing.


here are some more images of the ruvin proposal posted by markitect earlier in this thread:


http://graphics.jsonline.com/graphics/photographer/17/1792_large.jpg

^ A view of the corner at 3rd and Juneau. The historic Sydney Hih building and a relocated Gipfel Union Brewery building would be incorporated into the new development.





http://graphics.jsonline.com/graphics/photographer/17/1794_large.jpg

^ A view of the plaza at 3rd and McKinley. The ivy-covered walls screen a parking sturcture tucked into the center of the block. A green plaza sits at the corner.





http://graphics.jsonline.com/graphics/photographer/17/1793_large.jpg

^ The 20-story hotel tower rises above the corner at 4th and McKinley.

[djcody]

Good to hear they finally approved the a project for that land. SSC is not working again, i'm kinda getting fed up. i think i'm just gonna come on here for now on. anyone else having problems?

You guys should drive under the Marquette interchange, it looks like things are progressing and looks way cool. can't wait til its finished.

Any word on any of the other proposed buildings?

[Oshkosh49]

Good to hear they finally approved the a project for that land. SSC is not working again, i'm kinda getting fed up. i think i'm just gonna come on here for now on. anyone else having problems?

You guys should drive under the Marquette interchange, it looks like things are progressing and looks way cool. can't wait til its finished.

Any word on any of the other proposed buildings?
Yes dj, I'm getting tired of the problems with SSC myself. There is also another more Milwaukee specific development forum at this url. http://com5.runboard.com/burbanmilwaukee
Check it out. It has a very good start and nice threads.

[CGII]

This is one of my favourite projects in the country right now. It's almost perfectly proportioned and is such a breath of fresh air for Milwaukee. If only Manpower could freshen their design for their building a block North of this...

I almost forgot about the parking garage. If all parking garages were to be this gorgeous, I think I'd be anti transit.
Almost.

[Steely Dan]

This is one of my favourite projects in the country right now.
agreed. this thing is so friggin cool. i'm falling in love with the optical illusion effect of the crooked lines. i'm extremely jealous, but not really because i can't be jealous of anything in milwuakee because the city rules and it deserves excellent projects like this.

when i grow up, i think i'm going to marry this building (and then make her move down to chicago ;) )

[ReddAlert II]

-yeah, I really dig this building. Its just plain cool looking. I this building will look incredible coming from the East at night.

-They posted this at SSC (which I am getting sick of lately because of its server problems and might start frequenting this development thread). Its called ModLofts by VetterDenk for the Bayview neighborhood. http://www.mkedcd.org/MODLofts.pdf#search=%22Mod%20Lofts%22

Its a pretty bold design for that area. Not sure I am digging the color of it in the renderings.

-Anyone know when the bamboo garden is supposed to be done or how far it is?


-This is off topic, but does anyone have any concerns about the taxes in this city? I would love to move into one of these cool buildings--but the taxes would kill me. Even my parents who make decent change cringed when I showed them some condos and houses near Brewers Hill. I dont know...it just is kind of depressing to know that owning a cool home in a nice neighborhood in Milwaukee of all places will cost an arm and a leg. People on here bitch and moan about people moving to the burbs'---but can you blame them? Dont get me wrong, I love Milwaukee, but I dont fancy the idea of paying property taxes for a high crime rate, a failing school system that I wouldnt send my kid too, or some of the other poor spending that goes on in this city. Of course, I dont plan on buying a house for awile and I very much want to leave the Northwest side for a more urban area of the city.

-Oh, and a correction. I thought the Bucks jerseys were a blacker green. I was wrong. Its too shiney in my opinion...although better than the previous ones. The home jersey's are awesome though.

http://img154.imageshack.us/img154/8506/bucksso3.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[CGII]

I wouldn't mind paying high taxes if the city didn't fuck up where that taxmoney is going...

[Nowhereman1280]

I'm so glad this proposal won! I'm such a spoiled little brat, having grown up in Milwaukee and having gone to high school just 20 blocks west of downtown and now moving down to Chicago! I'm just spoiled rotten with beautiful new buildings!!! :cool:

[Skyking]

I'm so glad this proposal won! I'm such a spoiled little brat, having grown up in Milwaukee and having gone to high school just 20 blocks west of downtown and now moving down to Chicago! I'm just spoiled rotten with beautiful new buildings!!! :cool:

Go Hilltoppers!!

[Nowhereman1280]

Haha, yes Go Hilltoppers!!!! and also, go Ramblers! (Loyola)

[Nowhereman1280]

I was back home in Milwaukee this weekend and I don't know if any of you have noticed this, or if the guys at Emporis even have, but the Park Lafayette towers site definately has fences up, with a bunch of assorted digging equipment and the base of a crane sitting there. There also has been noticable digging going on because I could see a few piles of fresh dirt heaped near the road. I was in a car and didn't have a chance to stop and take a closer look, but I would say this is at a minimum in site prep. Don't quote me on it, but I think I saw those metal things they use to drill cassion holes with sitting there as well. Someone who lives near there should head over and take a closer look, but it looks like the twenty story Park Lafayette is under construction (or close to it)!

:banana:

[MilwaukeeMark]

I was back home in Milwaukee this weekend and I don't know if any of you have noticed this, or if the guys at Emporis even have, but the Park Lafayette towers site definately has fences up, with a bunch of assorted digging equipment and the base of a crane sitting there. There also has been noticable digging going on because I could see a few piles of fresh dirt heaped near the road. I was in a car and didn't have a chance to stop and take a closer look, but I would say this is at a minimum in site prep. Don't quote me on it, but I think I saw those metal things they use to drill cassion holes with sitting there as well. Someone who lives near there should head over and take a closer look, but it looks like the twenty story Park Lafayette is under construction (or close to it)!

:banana:

Yes, Park Lafayette is under construction. I'm in the process of updating Emporis data to reflect the U/C change. 85% of the units have been sold and they're hoping to move to contract by the end of the month.

Here are a few pictures to tide you over:

http://img152.imageshack.us/img152/2151/10071051ev7.jpg

http://img152.imageshack.us/img152/1678/10071061bj7.jpg

And a view from inside the sales center (including model):
http://img152.imageshack.us/img152/4738/10071191hv1.jpg

[djcody]

Wow, those models look great. Wish we had a rendering of all the u/c and approved buildings inserted in the skyline. I have photoshop if i can get the right pics to do it, i'd do it no problem, but having the right angled pics is hard to get.

[BANKofMANHATTAN]

http://graphics.jsonline.com/graphics/photographer/17/1798_large.jpg[/QUOTE]


Good news for Milwaukee...

I think the building is hideous and dislike the "retro paneling" akin to what they were implimenting on the WTC base in NYC - that shit didn't look good then and it dosen't look good now. :yuck:

Despite my opinion on the aesthetics, what matters more it that they're getting a good project.

[Nowhereman1280]

Well I like it, its different than everything else in Milwaukee and will be rather prominent in the skyline from the best view of the skyline in Milwaukee, heading south on Mckinley off of 43.

If anybody ever has to visit Milwaukee by car I suggest taking the Mckinley exit off of 43, its the best view there is (with a possible exception for the one from North Ave. hill/park). Coming in on Mckinley actually makes Milwaukee look like it has a "big city" skyline which I guess it does have, but, unfortunately, it is obscured by the fact that all the highways (except 794, which no one uses) are in trenches or just have a bad angle and the bluffs block the view from the lakefront of anything other than the first row of highrises.

[Skyking]

You're right on, Nowhereman. Too bad I-43 doesn't have a higher elevation to provide a better view of this particular panorama of downtown. Unfortunately, as we well know, there really aren't any outstanding views of the skyline for one main reason: downtown is just too spread out. While it's true Milwaukee does not have many legitimate office towers, if there was more density with what exists, the resulting skyline could be much more dramatic -- even without many taller towers.

A good example of this is Cincinnati.
Cincinnati's tallest building, The Carew Tower, is shorter than US Bank, but the closer proximity of the surrounding buildings makes the skyline more dramatic. It would be interesting to see what Milwaukee's skyline would look like if it was more condensed. Is someone out there very clever with Photoshop (and has absolutely nothing else to do)?

[Eriol]

I like the view from the Hoan Bridge best.

[sensei]

Hate to get off topic, again.

The Bucks colors clash, green and.. red? What the hell? There is nothing wrong with green or red, but they don't go well together. It should be green and silver, or green and royal blue. NOT green and red. And the Bucks logo is pathetic. Maybe in a couple years they'll tweak it. The green is shiny to the point that at the right angle it looks black.

What the hell happened to the Admirals? Don't fix what ain't broke. Their last uniform and colors and logo was just fine. Deep red, gold, and navy blue are classy colors. I have no problems with the new colors. What's wrong with black? The new logo has a Scooby Doo/Walt Disney look to it. Couldn't they just go with some symbol as their logo?

[sensei]

I was driving down some street, heading east, and a little north of downtown and got a great view of the skyline. I was able to get a view of ALL the builings. I wish I had my digital camera with me. I don't recall the street. But it was a perfect view.

[CGII]

North Avenue at the reservoir, I bet.