[Dougall5505]

I saw in the presentation about the transit mall they are going to remove the trees in front of pioneer courthouse to get a better sight line from the square. so that view of pioneer will be even cooler in a couple of years

[cab]

And the view of the increase car traffic on the mall will get better. I can't tell you how many people come to Portland and the first thing they comment on is the Downtown trees. Its like collectively our leadership doesn't understand the cities basic appeal. Its GREEN. Keeping the trees and planting a Grove of Giant Sequoias in Pioneer sq would go further then opening up site lines to auto traffic.

[Dougall5505]

were talking about ONE place on the whole mall. at least i hope we are

[Drmyeyes]

"I saw in the presentation about the transit mall they are going to remove the trees in front of pioneer courthouse to get a better sight line from the square. so that view of pioneer will be even cooler in a couple of years" Dougall 5505

A better site line to Pioneer Courthouse, and now, since the city recently re-opened that block to street parking, to the cars parked in front of it as well. After all those years with the bus mall that allowed, except for the poorly sited trees, a clear, picturesque view to Pioneer Courthouse, a handfull of parked cars is allowed to junk that view up. Kind of ironic. Maybe the parked car policy in front of the courthouse is temporary....

....and....it is!...according to NJD below....thanks!

[NJD]

its temporary parking to offset parking lost on 3rd and 4th during construction.

[zilfondel]

were talking about ONE place on the whole mall. at least i hope we are

I was too. Are you in the PSU arch program? Urbanlife and I am.

[Dougall5505]

no what is it?

[zilfondel]

Oh, never mind. I misread those comments... probably shouldn't be posting so late at night. =\

[65MAX]

Call me crazy, but I think it's a good idea to open up the sightlines between Pioneer Courthouse and "Pioneer Courthouse" Square. The trees can be miigated elsewhere, not like moving two trees will adversely affect the rest of Downtown.

[Dougall5505]

thats what I was trying to say but you said it better

[asher519]

All sorts of rooftop fun on the other side of the clock!

http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j253/asher519/MFfromAlder.jpg

http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j253/asher519/MFfromYeon.jpg

http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j253/asher519/MFwindows.jpg

[PacificNW]

When visiting Portland Tuesday I had the opportunity to walk around downtown through the maze of construction. Those pics of the Macy's/Nines renovation are great. I saw the work going on from street level but those pics give another perspective.

Without trying to be sexist, but I found all the construction amazing. I think men, for the most part, and a few women, really get off checking out all hard work that is happening in construction zones. (It appeared that much of downtown would be considered a construction zone.)

I feel that great things are happening downtown. For those trying to navigate in their cars (and complaining) should park them and take a walk. It really is fascinating.

[Chicago3rd]

And the view of the increase car traffic on the mall will get better. I can't tell you how many people come to Portland and the first thing they comment on is the Downtown trees. Its like collectively our leadership doesn't understand the cities basic appeal. Its GREEN. Keeping the trees and planting a Grove of Giant Sequoias in Pioneer sq would go further then opening up site lines to auto traffic.


Exactly.....suburban style Transit Mall how quaint. Folks....lots of cities have increase sight lines because they have no trees....PDX is special...oops...was....since they are going to be deforesting downtown.

Besides...the trees are deciduous so 1/2 the year folks can see the square unobstructed with the clutter of vegetation.

[MarkDaMan]

^They have a ton of signs "Do not disturb this tree" posted on more than half and sometimes all the trees for blocks and blocks. We aren't going to loose the canopy in many areas thankfully, and they aren't cutting trees anywhere else downtown that I know of...except in the Rose Quarter. I noticed a pie shaped block in the bus transit area had all their trees cut down?

[MarkDaMan]

At lunch today I saw they've started adding three stories to the building in the space gap captured in asher's:) pic. (well at least on the 6th ave side, I assume they are adding the three floors across that entire length of the back of the building.)
http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j253/asher519/MFfromYeon.jpg

It will be interesting to see how closely they can match up the new glazed terra cotta with the terra cotta (cleaned up) currently on the building.

[zilfondel]

Yes, the three new floors will wrap around the entire building. It's going to be a little bit different in style... but the terracotta tiles should be about the same color/reflectivity.

[GreenCity]

Are there any renderings for the M & F Macy's building besides the one street level one on page two? They must be out there somewhere...

[tworivers]

These are from the Sera website. Maybe not quite what you were looking for.

http://www.serapdx.com/images/prj/00000227.jpg

http://www.serapdx.com/images/prj/00000097.jpg

[Dougall5505]

not the best picture but shows progress(its from flickr)
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1401/842758861_a64d61515c_o.jpg

[downtownpdx]

Does anyone know of plans to have little retail spots on 5th and 6th aves? I thought I read somewhere that unlike the Meier & Frank design, with no entrances on those streets, that the Macy's development would include spots for small retail in the middle of the blocks.

[PacificNW]

I have to say this: I am so happy that this building(s) was saved and is being updated. They don't make "them" like they did way back when....the detail work/materials used is "so fine". Hooray for Portland, Sage Development, The Nine's and Macy's..

[360Rich]

'The Nines' to be Portland's newest luxury hotel

04:25 PM PDT on Thursday, July 19, 2007
By JOE SMITH, Special to kgw.com

If you walk around Pioneer Courthouse Square, you can't miss the non-stop sounds of progress in and around the historic Meier and Frank building.

Macy's is getting a make over and just a few floors above Portland's newest luxury hotel is being built.

It's called The Nines, as in 'dressed to.' It's an homage to the history as a fashion department store then and now.

"It will be a very high-end luxury experience", said Ken Geist the Executive Vice President with Sage Hospitality. Sage operates some 50 hotels in 25 states across the country.

Demolition began on the top nine floors above Macy's just about a year ago. So far it looks like a war zone.

The center of the building is gone. Twenty-four million pounds of material has been removed from the site. Most of it in the center of the building to make way for an atrium.

All 331 rooms will surround the atrium. Some will overlook Pioneer Courthouse Square.

The Nines will be the first Starwood Hotel luxury brand.

"We're going four stars, maybe a little higher", said Geist.

Sage became impressed with Portland at a time when the hotel industry in America took a downturn in 2003. After reading an article in the Portland Business Journal about another company pulling out of its commitment to redevelop the building, Sage became interested.

But, without some $35 million in tax credits the project would not have happened. The entire project will cost around $118 million.

"We're trying to preserve and redevelop the property to historic standards" said Geist. That adds about 30 percent to the projects total cost.

"The combination of historic, luxury and has been quite a challenge" said Chris Ziegler, project manger for the Nines.

Blending yesterday with today means, among other things, seismic upgrades, preserving the integrity of the exterior of the building.

As part of Sage's agreement with the Portland Development Commission, the Nines must go green. It's going for LEED silver certification. Just a handful of hotels in this country have that designation.

Despite what looks like a lot of work ahead, The Nines will open about this time next year creating almost 200 new jobs.

http://www.kgw.com/business/stories/kgw_071907_business_the_nines.8fc99c58.html#

[Dougall5505]

from flickr http://flickr.com/photos/matt-davis/
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1033/924081631_eedd1ccbb1_b.jpg

[MarkDaMan]

I've seen a lot of recent press on the re-opening of the Macy's at Meier and Frank Square. Supposedly it will reopen in about a month...although it still looks like it has a long way to go from the outside...

[tworivers]

A shot of M&F from the Morrison Bridge.

That top floor, is that going to be the Skylab-designed restaurant? Anyone know more about it?

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1334/1481992017_6e8396cc91.jpg?v=0

[CouvScott]

I've seen a lot of recent press on the re-opening of the Macy's at Meier and Frank Square. Supposedly it will reopen in about a month...although it still looks like it has a long way to go from the outside...

The Macy's project is about finished, but the hotel project will continue on for some time.

[Dougall5505]

from flickr http://flickr.com/photos/ooohiooo04/
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1128/1464468807_6d90dca0a9_o.jpg

[MarkDaMan]

Downtown Macy's: A delicate balance
by The Oregonian
Sunday October 21, 2007, 7:58 AM
BY LAURA GUNDERSON The Oregonian Staff

Many shoppers who walk into the downtown Macy's department store on Friday will search the tiled ceiling somewhere near the escalators for The Clock.

The oversize, old-fashioned timepiece will be there, hanging a foot or two from where it served as a familiar meeting spot at Meier & Frank for decades.

In the clock's case, tradition was tweaked only slightly -- so that it would be more appealingly centered between the escalators. But not so for the rest of the store, which Macy's spent a year and more than $100 million renovating.

Usually, such retail renovations are welcomed without reservation, especially those of the magnitude here, where gleaming white tiles replaced dingy linoleum, a luxury hotel overtook the cavernous upper floors, roomy walkways wound through once-jammed racks and new lighting brightened what some Portland shoppers had begun calling "The Cave."

But this one was tricky.

As much as Portlanders wanted a change in the store that's been a downtown shopping stop for nearly 100 years, they didn't want to see their nostalgia for annual pictures in Santaland or junkets with white-gloved Grandma tossed out with the frayed carpet.

The first-of-its-kind balancing act for Macy's -- and retailers overhauling downtown stores anywhere -- is to elegantly combine modernistic with historic, retail experts say. The careful steps, they say, are slimming down selling space and piggybacking with snazzy partners -- from condos to coffeehouses -- while jazzing up their offerings and service.

Such a feat has become their best shot, the experts say, at bucking a national trend of flagships struggling, closing, then serving as massive gravestones for core shopping districts.

"The name of the game is to take these big white-elephant stores and redevelop them into condos with exciting restaurants and retail shops and all that stuff," said Howard Davidowitz, chairman of the New York-based national retail consulting and investment banking firm Davidowitz & Associates.

In coming months, shoppers get to judge for themselves whether the $100 million-dollar makeover creating Macy's at Meier & Frank Square will be enough but not too much.

A roomier feel


Shoppers will get their first glimpse Friday, when Macy's unveils its more compact selling space, which, paradoxically, store officials say will feel roomier than ever.

"Previously, the store was a very tired environment," said R.B. Harrison, president and chief operating officer for Macy's Northwest and a former Meier & Frank executive. "It was difficult to highlight our customer service and our merchandise. But when it opens, people will see a state-of-the-art environment for shopping."

The first five floors, whittled down from the original 13 floors of selling space, feature a wider selection of name brands than when Macy's took over the former Meier & Frank store last year, Harrison said. Macy's officials had a "dramatic change of thought," he said, about what a downtown Portland shopper wants. As a result, customers will see more upscale labels, such as Coach -- a separate table will highlight the purse company's new shoe line -- as well as Wacoal and Dooney & Burke and, for men, Helly Hansen, Lucky and Spider.

"The remodel will offer a new level of luxury to Macy's shoppers," Harrison said.

The store now looks more like others in the Macy's lineup at metro-area suburban malls and could become a venue where the retailer rolls out new, potentially top-tier brands as it does at Washington Square -- but not yet, he said. Macy's will watch what type of shoppers return, he said, then fine-tune.

A part of the store's new lean toward luxury will show up in service, said Paul Brown, the store's new manager, who previously oversaw the Macy's at Washington Square. The staff will strive to be friendly and knowledgeable, Brown said. "We'll be more inviting, more open," he said.

But Macy's isn't relying only on its new brands, bright lights and improved service.


The Nines


The hotel above Macy's -- scheduled to open next summer -- aims to be the highest of Portland's high-end hotels. Sage Hospitality, the hotel's owner, says The Nines has a "modern nostalgia" design.

"We want to pay tribute to the Meier & Frank store but bring it into the 21st century," said Alexandra Walterspiel, vice president of Sage's independent hotel collection.

The hotel will occupy floors six through 15 with a rooftop lounge, Departure. The eighth-floor restaurant, the Urban Farmer, will feature locally grown and organic foods and meats.

Sage will commission artists for the paintings and sculptures to fill The Nines' lobby and its 331 rooms. The company will try to attract business travelers and groups with high-tech boardrooms and market its ballroom as a spot for weddings or bar mitzvahs.

Business travelers and bar mitzvahs mean one thing for downtown department stores: instant shoppers. That, retail experts say, is why the mix of a shrunken department store teamed with upper-floor excitement has worked.

They point to a few similar ventures, where central-city department stores make another go of it by not going alone. Among them: Boston's famed merchant Filene's Basement, which closed and will reopen in 2009 with the department store, condominiums and a hotel; and Chicago's Shops at State and Washington, where condos reside above a Nordstrom outlet and H&M apparel store.

Many, many more stores, of course, have not returned.

The flagship of the former Gimbels department store chain in New York closed and now houses luxury condos. Downtown Atlanta's Macy's closed in 2003 and remains empty. The hub store of Chicago's Carson Pirie Scott store was shuttered to make way for office space, a museum and shops.

"Big downtown department stores just aren't making it; it doesn't make much difference how nice it looks," said Homer Johnson, a Loyola University Chicago management professor who has researched the history of department store strategy. "It's just that people are not going downtown to see big flagship stores when they can see a Macy's anywhere."

The downtown hubs must not only find new ways to attract customers, retail experts said, they also must woo them when they arrive, returning to the fabled service they once offered.

There's no reason flagship stores can't be successful, said market researcher Britt Beemer, pointing to Macy's own historic home base in New York's Herald Square.

"Those stores have certain attributes that people have given them through the years, whether it's the service or where Santa has always sat," said Beemer, president of America's Research Group of Charleston, S.C. "The question is whether Macy's will fulfill those attributes."

So far, Macy's has trumpeted its new features nearly equally as its nods to the past. On Friday, shoppers will hear Gerald Frank, a member of Meier & Frank's founding families, at the reopening ceremonies and see the beloved -- yet grounded -- monorail in the lower-level Santaland.

And in about a year, The Nines could deliver tourists who care less about sentiment and more about shopping.

Davidowitz, the New York-based retail consultant, raved about his own condominium in Trump World Tower. The building features retail boutiques, spa and restaurant, he said proudly.

Does he shop there?

No, he said. "But we have it."

Laura Gunderson: 503-221-8378; lauragunderson@ news.oregonian.com
http://www.oregonlive.com/business/index.ssf/2007/10/downtown_macys_a_delicate_bala.html

[MarkDaMan]

Macy’s to glow as lights come early to Portland
POSTED: 06:00 AM PDT Monday, October 22, 2007
BY DJC STAFF

The Portland Business Alliance on Wednesday will ignite 10,000 lights on 708 trees to celebrate Macy’s grand reopening in the former Meier & Frank Building.

This is the fifth year that downtown business owners have sponsored the lighting program.

The business alliance manages the tree lighting program on behalf of downtown property owners and pays for light installation, maintenance and electricity.

A Light Up Co., of Beaverton, has been contracted for the third year in a row to install the lights on 70 downtown blocks.

The lights will remain up through Jan. 30.
http://www.djcoregon.com/articleDetail.htm/2007/10/22/Macys-to-glow-as-lights-come-early-to-Portland

[MarkDaMan]

Downtown Macy’s throws itself a party
Business watchers see a retail ‘linchpin’ in historic store’s new life
By Jim Redden
The Portland Tribune, Oct 23, 2007

After months of putting the best face on the disruptive transit mall redevelopment project, downtown business boosters finally have a reason to celebrate — Macy’s at Meier & Frank Square reopens Friday, in time for the start of the holiday shopping season.

“It’s phenomenal. Macy’s will be the linchpin for all future downtown retail development,” said Sandra McDonough, president and chief executive officer of the Portland Business Alliance, which had made the reopening of the former Meier & Frank department store a priority.

Macy’s will occupy the first five floors of the building, which housed Meier & Frank for nearly 100 years and has been closed for almost a year for the renovation.

The upper 10 floors still are being renovated into the Nines Hotel, scheduled to be completed next summer. The block at Southwest Sixth Avenue and Morrison Street officially has been named Meier & Frank Square.

Workers moved at a frantic pace late last week in advance of the reopening. Carpenters in hard hats mixed with well-dressed clerks and harried-looking department managers.

Boxes were placed on display tables, clothes were hung on racks and dishes were arranged on shelves. In the household appliances section, store employees sat on the floor for a briefing on the latest products.

“It looks crazy now, but we’ll be ready when the time comes,” said Kimberly Reason, divisional vice president for corporate communications and media relations for Macy’s Northwest, which oversees the company’s 67 stores in Washington, Oregon, Idaho, Montana, Utah, Washington and Wyoming.

Reopening festivities will include a ribbon-cutting ceremony at 9:30 a.m. Friday with Mayor Tom Potter, former Mayor Vera Katz and top Macy’s executives.

Activities will include live entertainment, cake and refreshments, gift bags, a drawing for a trip to Hawaii, and writer Gerry Frank (the great-grandson of Meier & Frank’s founder) signing copies of his book “Gerry Frank’s Where to Find It, Buy It and Eat It in New York.”

Macy’s Inc. is investing $30 million in the project. Including the hotel, the 600,000-square-foot renovation will cost $140 million. Work includes seismic upgrading. The building’s terra-cotta facade and National Register of Historic Places status remain.

The Portland Development Commission assisted the project with three loans totaling $13.9 million. The funds came from the River District urban renewal area. Other public support for the project includes historic, energy and new market tax credits.

The renovated Macy’s includes porcelain floor tiles, upgraded lighting, and large fitting lounges with couches and flat-screen TVs. Product lines include well-known designers and exclusive in-house names.

Care was taken to preserve many of the elements that made the original Meier & Frank store a destination for generations of Portlanders — the first-floor clock, art deco-style escalators and elevators, and a monorail exhibit in Santaland.

“Keeping connections to the past was very important to us,” Reason said.

Before the opening, a fundraising Art of the City Gala will take place at the store from 5 p.m. to 9 p.m. Wednesday. The event will benefit five organizations: the Portland Children’s Museum, Oregon Children’s Theatre, Oregon Symphony, Portland Center Stage and Portland Opera.

It will include entertainment and a silent auction offering a trip for four to Macy’s Thanksgiving Day Parade in New York.

Tickets, $75, can be reserved by calling Macy’s special events line, 1-877-340-4386.

“The retail experience is important, but so is Macy’s role as the anchor for a vibrant downtown core,” said financial adviser Mark Rosenbaum, who is chairman of the PDC board of directors and serves as the agency’s liaison to the business alliance’s Downtown Retail Council.

Rosenbaum and other city officials predict that downtown is poised to boom.

The transit mall renovation, scheduled to be completed in 2009, includes a new MAX light-rail line between Union Station and Portland State University. Two other retailers in the blocks around Macy’s — Nordstrom and the Pioneer Place shopping complex — are planning major renovations.

Developer Tom Moyer has announced plans to build a new multiuse tower in the Zell Block, just west of Nordstrom. And the city is finalizing plans to revamp its nearby 10th Avenue parking garage.

“We’re getting lots of calls from national retailers interested in locating downtown,” McDonough said. “The city has spent a lot of time and money keeping downtown vital, and it’s all about to pay off.”

The Meier & Frank store became Macy’s in 2006, after its parent company merged with Federated Department Stores Inc.

Macy’s is the largest retail brand of Macy’s Inc. It operates more than 800 stores in 45 states, the District of Columbia, Puerto Rico and Guam.

http://www.portlandtribune.com/news/story.php?story_id=119309177639161200

[Okstate]

What are the major renovations planned for Nordstrom & Pioneer Place?

[PacificNW]

Here is a link/clip I just found showing the hole they have cut in the center of the former Meier & Frank store...:



http://blog.oregonlive.com/multimedia/2007/07/a_look_at_the_new_macys_and_ho.html

[Tim the Enchanter]

The redone downtown Macys is not too bad.

[PacificNW]

Yeah, the downtown store definitely needed updated. It seemed to me to be less cluttered and they appeared to utilize more of the floor square footage. The merchandise is definitely more upscale than when it was a May Co. store. The white floors and walls visually brightened the place up....much more in the lines of the Macy's I shopped while I lived in Texas. The store was full of shoppers with full shopping bags. Very good for downtown Portland.

I also saw that the new Brooks Brothers store is close to opening. It is going to be a larger store than I had envisioned.

[downtownpdx]

I really like the way it has brightened the streetscape around it, and the interior is way better, but sooooo white! The bright-white walls, floors, etc. could use a little color here and there, IMO.

[Chicago3rd]

Did all cameral lenses crack and shatter in the PDX metro area?

[MarkDaMan]

PDC OK’s $3M loan to The Nines
Daily Journal of Commerce
POSTED: 06:00 AM PST Friday, December 14, 2007
BY LIBBY TUCKER

The Portland Development Commission has approved a $3 million loan to help Sage Hospitality Resources fill a $15 million gap in construction costs on The Nines hotel. The money will pay for life safety features such as lead paint abatement, seismic upgrades, and fire suppression as well as environmental upgrades to meet the Leadership in Energy and Environmental Design silver certification, according to the PDC.

Hoffman Construction Co. in 2006 began a renovation of the top nine floors of the historic Meier and Frank building downtown from a department store into a luxury hotel. The project, originally budgeted at $119 million, is now projected to cost $133 million to complete.

The budget shortfall came from unexpected building conditions, including lead paint and a “ghost” floor, that were not found in the contractor’s pre-construction inspections, Shawn Uhlman, a PDC spokesman, said. The department store remained open during initial inspections, limiting the contractor’s access to the building, he said.

“It wasn’t poor planning at all,” Uhlman said. “We’re talking about an old building and due diligence was not done under ideal conditions.”
http://www.djcoregon.com/articleDetail.htm/2007/12/14/PDC-OKs-3M-loan-to-The-Nines

[Okstate]

If anyone has seen a picture inside the new macys can they post it or inform me where to find one? Not a big deal i just like seeing pictures of stuff in Portland. Any pictures of the new Eddie Bauer exterior would be cool too.

[PacificNW]

⤉ If you have been to other Macy's you pretty well know they like "white" interiors. The downtown Portland store is no exception. White floors and walls. They did keep/restore the elevators and escalators. The store is much brighter and definitely a more pleasant shopping experience.

I have nothing on the new Eddie Bauer..

[dkealoha]

I'll take a picture of the new Eddie Bauer on my way home tonight. Haven't been in it yet. Does anyone even shop there? Actually... this isn't the right thread to talk about this.

The white-ness of the Macy's renovation was the first thing I noticed when I walked in. I didn't think it was anything spectacular... but definitely an improvement.

[tworivers]

I was wondering how Sage could --and why they would-- just come straight out and say they were in default... It struck me as a very public arm-twisting of their project partners.

There is also a blurb on the DJC site about taxpayer anger being directed at Sage via letters and such.

Meier & Frank money debacle a lesson in historic renovation
Cost overruns on The Nines were expected, so why didn’t anyone plan for them?

POSTED: 06:00 AM PST Monday, December 17, 2007
BY LIBBY TUCKER

Hidden problems during the renovation of the top 10 floors of downtown’s historic Meier & Frank building into a luxury hotel pushed project costs $15 million over budget.

The project’s developer, contractor and the Portland Development Commission have all blamed the building’s age and disrepair. But critics say that, although both the developer and builder have a proven track record of historic renovations, the team could have planned the project better.

The $119 million price tag has now jumped to $133 million. And the PDC this week decided to help cover the unforeseen costs with a $3 million loan to developer Sage Hospitality Resources.

“It’s pretty typical when you start tearing into a big building like that, you don’t know all the conditions,” said Ross Plambeck, a project manager with the PDC, which had already invested almost $14 million in the project meant to revitalize downtown near Pioneer Courthouse Square. “As the additional costs started coming up and they needed to close the gap, they turned to many of their financial partners.”

The project was tough from the start. Built in 1909 and expanded or renovated several times since, the Meier & Frank building was a patchwork of construction techniques and oddly placed beams. And drawings of the upgrades were incomplete or missing.

Sage’s first mistake, and one the developer readily admits, was purchasing the top 10 floors of the building from Macy’s without full access to the floors. The decision caused incomplete pre-construction inspections.

“Macy’s wouldn’t let us rip open their floors until we bought it,” Sage’s Ken Geist said. “So we couldn’t have done any more due diligence.”

Complicating the redevelopment was the decision to split the work into two projects with a different general contractor running each job. While SD Deacon Corp. renovated the lower floors into a Macy’s department store, Hoffman Construction Co. oversaw the top 10 floors.

Subcontractors had to share construction gates. And once Macy’s opened this fall, contractors on The Nines had to work around an open business.

“That’s a tight site, and if you can’t control the logistics, you can’t make money,” said Al Kackman, a project manager for Elder Demolition, which ultimately declined to bid on the $5 million demolition contact once it saw how difficult the work would be.

When the Hoffman-hired demolition contractor, Nuprecon, began tearing into the walls and ceilings to make way for an atrium in The Nines, the contractor ran into a host of surprises, including a hidden floor, lead paint and other structural deficiencies it said would make the building unsafe in an earthquake.

“Problems with their cost overruns are very legit because you can’t foresee everything that’s been done over the past 100 years,” Tary Carlson, a project manager with Ethos Development, said. “But they probably should have had an 8 percent contingency.”

The project’s $5 million set-aside for unforeseen costs wasn’t enough to cover the bill. Sage asked for help with the overruns from its financial partners, including the PDC. According to its contract, the developer was in default on its construction loan until it came up with the additional cash.

But the developer says the unanticipated costs are just part of doing business on a historic building.

“The word default got thrown around and everybody got into a panic,” Geist said. “It was a technical default. ... Our contractors are paid in full.”

[rsbear]

Yawn

In 10 years no one will care and hardly anyone will remember the cost overrun but almost everyone will be thrilled to have the M&F building restored and still in use as a department store. Plus an active hotel in the heart of the city will add "after-dark" life to the center of the city.

Next subject?

[Chicago3rd]

Never met a person who had renovations that came in under or at budget. Sure it may happen, but seldom does. Of course if it is city money some members of the community believe the standards should be higher than they are for them. Same thing with people bitching about cities borrowing money...they should run it like a business. Hello lots of businesses get loans...especially those constructing things and very very very few people buy cars and houses with cash...but the governments are suppose to pull money out of their butts.

Sorry for the rant..but I want those people and their ilk to move to Universal City, Texas...something that fits their style better.

[PacificNW]

This hotel is going to be an asset to downtown Portland......

[tworivers]

I'm mostly looking forward to that Skylab-designed top-floor lounge/restaurant...

[philopdx]

Well, this thing is moving as fast as molasses...

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3027/2448033828_c3ceaa01f7_b.jpg

[philopdx]

Update 5-2-08: The crane comes down!

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2273/2463257750_fdd8e4eb79_b.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2065/2463258364_9b16af1fe0_b.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3010/2462425157_48926c4490_b.jpg

[MarkDaMan]

couldn't really tell from your pic...how is the new skin blending with the old on the addition?

[philopdx]

Take a look from 5-04-08:

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2065/2466513715_ff99c61675_o.jpg

[joeplayer1989]

not to shabby

[MarkDaMan]

Thanks philo...a little too early still to judge how well they match. Good start though.

[PacificNW]

Somehow I doubt if the new addition will carry the detail work of the original terra cotta but I could be wrong. All in all, I think it works.

[zilfondel]

No, it won't carry the detail work. You can see that the terra cotta panels they have installed are pretty plain, more of a minimalist style.

[MarkDaMan]

when was the last addition made to the building before this renovation? It seems, in this case, the history of this building has been to grow piecemeal to eventually fill the entire block while keeping a one building uniform look. I'm hardly an advocate for copying and building faux architecture, but in this case, the building's history has been to continue the theme during each expansion using the ornate detailing to continue the uniformity of the feel. I don't know if that would be a bad thing for THIS building.

[philopdx]

Update 5-10-08:

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2280/2481652051_6d57cedabf_b.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3030/2482464990_fd4bc732f6_b.jpg

[PacificNW]

Are the former windows going to be replaced?

[MarkDaMan]

^nope...something to do with the historical preservations. I know they wanted to for LEED.

[philopdx]

Update 5-19-08:

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2411/2508042590_ce80dc6f3d_o.jpg

[philopdx]

Update 5-24-08:

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2094/2520334674_ce0d622fdf_b.jpg

[RadioBP]

The Starwood website is now officially accepting reservations beginning 01.09.09. Rates range from 229 to 349.

Also, I was able to peek in the windows from the Morrison side, and could see the elevator lobby in all its unfinished glory! Looks like 4 elevator cars w/doors on both sides.

[Dougall5505]

signage: http://www.portlandonline.com/shared/cfm/image.cfm?id=199060

[philopdx]

Update 7-5-2008:

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3096/2644396908_91e9fbb0dc_b.jpg

[MarkDaMan]

^That's crap. Either go all the way and add a stunning modern addition, or recreate the addition to match the rest of the building.

That's really disappointing.

[IanofCascadia]

:previous: I'm forced to agree, Mark. I just look at this with each passing month and more and more see a project which was halfheartedly restored. I keep expecting something more... fine stonework or something. However, that having been said, The Nines will add a lot to the area once it opens. That alone makes the project fully worthwhile.

[Okstate]

The remodel looks like a hamton inn.

[NewUrbanist]

I understand that the building's additions are underwhelming - but I think that actually has to do with the historic tax credits that the project is receiving. The developers are not allowed to recreate history, and since the additions were not rebuilding but rather renovating the original structure, it had to had similar design cues.

That is why there are similar lines and window choices, but the building does not recreate the terracotta facade. Speaking of which, the building's interior will be amazing. I have seen some preliminary photos of the design, and I think you all will be pleasantly surprised at the amount of time and money spent on making "the nines" a Portland showpiece.

Granted it is not a 5 star hotel, but I do think it will honor the building's history in an appropiate way. That said, the Macy's department store is horrendous and looks like it belongs in Beaverton. The whole flow of the building is wrong and is kind of a pathetic excuse for downtown shopping. I mean really, why did they build the same piece of garbage that you find anywhere?

I heard that they considered a Bloomingdales here, but the market wasn't strong enough. *sigh* If only...

[MightyAlweg]

I heard that they considered a Bloomingdales here, but the market wasn't strong enough. *sigh* If only...

Don't get too upset, because Bloomingdales is just sort of a Macy's with more aloof salesclerks. There are two Bloomingdales here in OC, and neither one has impressed me much. The customer service is just as mediocre or nonexistent as a Macy's, but they try and pretend they are much cooler. It rarely works for them. A Bloomingdales does have a different look than a Macy's, but it's still the same cookie cutter look of all Bloomingdales.

Although, the last time I was in the Bloomingdales at South Coast Plaza a few months ago I saw Laura Bush and a bunch of Secret Service guys! That was kind of cool.

Be glad Portland has a Nordstrom downtown, as they still have service and style that is lightyears beyond Macy's.

[65MAX]

Granted it is not a 5 star hotel....

Really? Everything I've read about the project says that they're shooting for a 5-star rating. Hotels aren't rated until they're up and running, so we won't know what that is until they've been open for a while.

[MightyAlweg]

Really? Everything I've read about the project says that they're shooting for a 5-star rating. Hotels aren't rated until they're up and running, so we won't know what that is until they've been open for a while.

A Five Star Hotel needs facilities and amenities that The Nines simply won't have, nor will it have space or money or clientele for. I doubt Portland will ever have a Five Star hotel in our lifetimes.

To get a Five Star rating from Mobil (the standard bearer of hotel ratings around the world) a hotel needs to have a lot of things The Nines won't have; stuff like a hair salon/barber, an in house florist, a pool, reciprocity at a local country club and tennis club, etc. It also needs superlative service in a stunning or lavishly opulent setting. The employees need to be able to host heads of state or royalty just as easily as they host captains of industry or very demanding regulars. The fact that this a hotel sitting on top of a rather mundane Macy's doesn't help.

The standard Five Star amenities is just stuff The Nines doesn't have, and won't ever be spending the time, money or physical space to acquire.

I would rate The Nines as a Four Star boutique hotel. But, you have to realize that is Four Stars from a local, regional standard. Mobil would likely give The Nines a rating of Four Stars only if they really put their local employees through the training ringer. It will take a lot of work to get Portlanders up to International standards when it comes to truly polished, profesional, gracious hospitality however. Most of the employees at The Nines are going to be people who grew up in Beaverton or Tigard or Southeast Portland, and they'll need a lot of work and re-education to get to the level of a Tokyo or New York four star hotel staff. With a lot of work and an investment in amenities unlike any other hotel in Portland, The Nines will get Four Stars. If they don't really hustle and spend some big bucks in the rooms and public spaces, The Nines will get Three Stars from Mobil.

I was sad that The Nines won't be open in late August when I'm in town for my 20th high school reunion. I'm a huge fan of trendy, spendy boutique hotels and I really wanted to stay at The Nines. Instead I've got a nice room at the Hotel DeLuxe, since all the bigger rooms at the Hotel Lucia were booked, and the other "boutique hotels" in downtown Portland were a bit too frumpy and old lady-ish for my taste. And really, the DeLuxe and Lucia are Three Stars, owing to their limited amenities and rather unpolished regional service standards.
http://mobiltravelguide.howstuffworks.com/hotel-deluxe-portland-or.htm

The Nines should kick things up a notch stylewise, but it will be nowhere near a Five Star level when compared to major world cities and major posh hotels.

[pdxman]

There was a business journal report on kgw.com friday night that gave an inside look at the new hotel going in above Macy's. Looks pretty nice. It also mentioned how they were going for a Five-star rating, so we'll what happens I guess :shrug:

[65MAX]

To get a Five Star rating from Mobil (the standard bearer of hotel ratings around the world) a hotel needs to have a lot of things The Nines won't have; stuff like a hair salon/barber, an in house florist, a pool, reciprocity at a local country club and tennis club, etc. It also needs superlative service in a stunning or lavishly opulent setting. The employees need to be able to host heads of state or royalty just as easily as they host captains of industry or very demanding regulars. The fact that this a hotel sitting on top of a rather mundane Macy's doesn't help.

The standard Five Star amenities is just stuff The Nines doesn't have, and won't ever be spending the time, money or physical space to acquire.

MightyAlweg,
Are you sure they're not providing any of these amenities? Sounds like they must be, assuming Mobil requires them to get a 5-star rating. I know they're spending a small fortune on commissioned artwork to go into the hotel.

[zilfondel]

^ according to Mobil's guide, there aren't even any 4-hotels in Portland. Interesting...

Of course, it is pretty tough to compete against some of the extreme luxury offerings in other cities, with much larger and wealthier clientele. I wonder if a Portland block would even be large enough to fit everything on it to provide for a 5-star...

[MightyAlweg]

^ according to Mobil's guide, there aren't even any 4-hotels in Portland. Interesting...

Of course, it is pretty tough to compete against some of the extreme luxury offerings in other cities, with much larger and wealthier clientele. I wonder if a Portland block would even be large enough to fit everything on it to provide for a 5-star...

Bingo. Portland has yet to establish a 4 Star Hotel. The thought that The Nines would land on top of Macy's and suddenly be Portland's first 5 Star Hotel is simply impossible.

Let's remember here, we are talking hotel ratings on an International scale here. We're not competing just with what they have up I-5 in Seattle; to get a 4 or 5 Star rating from Mobil you have to compete with the best of the best in Tokyo, New York, London, Paris and Hong Kong.

Portland needs to work on getting a hotel with a 4 Star rating from Mobil. And The Nines will struggle to get that even. I'm betting The Nines gets a 3 Star rating from Mobil.

All that said, I am looking forward to staying in The Nines this winter. I'm staying at the Hotel Deluxe next weekend on my trip to Portland, and I'm looking forward to it. But the "fancy" hotels in Portland right now are really only 3 Star properties, and some even struggle with that rating when you compare them to a 3 Star property in New York or Tokyo.

I've stayed at the Conrad Tokyo (on someone elses dime!), and it has it all for a 5 Star rating in a very tight space. The Mandarin Oriental in the Ginza in Tokyo is also an extremely compact design, but has the top rating. I'd have to check, but the Tokyo Mandarin Oriental is at least a 4 Star, possibly 5 Star. Space isn't the issue really, it's the clientele to pay for those services and the ability of the staff to pull off polished service on an International scale.

The best Portland employees pull off reasonably polished service on a regional scale. Nice folks to be sure, but they would be laughed to the curb in Tokyo or London.

[bvpcvm]

all this 4- or 5- star rating stuff - and the criteria for it - just doesn't sound very portland to me; in fact, to me, it sounds like something only celebrities or the uber-rich would care about. i mean, maybe i'm just too provincial, but who cares what mobil thinks? and seriously, what it is about service at the conrad tokyo (never heard of it before) that is so much better?

[urbanlife]

actually if you want to get into it, it depends on who's rating system you want to look into. Mobil, AAA, any internet site, there are several companies that do rating systems for hotels. We have several 4 diamond hotels in Portland, granted several of them have been grandfathered in because of age. If you are hoping to compare the DeLuxe to any international hotel, you would be disappointed. It is a hotel that is outside of the "hotel district" (if you want to call it that) so it will be a bit slower pace. Plus due to the smaller blocks in Portland, we specialize more in smaller hotels like a city such as San Francisco would have.

I hope you enjoy your stay, but Portland is more about the city than the hotel.

[MightyAlweg]

i mean, maybe i'm just too provincial, but who cares what mobil thinks? and seriously, what it is about service at the conrad tokyo (never heard of it before) that is so much better?

I think the only people who really care what Mobil thinks are the people looking for a 4 or 5 Star hotel. That may not be you, and that's cool, but there are people for whom that is important when they travel.

As for the Conrad Tokyo, Conrad is the high end brand of the Hilton company. It's rather new on the hotel scene, and is meant to compete with a big city W or a Four Seasons or a Mandarin Oriental. http://conradhotels1.hilton.com/en/ch/hotels/photoTour.do?ctyhocn=TYOCICI&page=1

As for the difference in service.... I couldn't even begin to describe it here. It's just something you would need to experience for yourself. The Heathman in Portland begins to approach it, kind of/sort of, but still falls noticeably short. A hotel like The Olympic in Seattle gets closer, but still we're talking just great regional service levels at The Olympic.

Clearly, however, there's a desire by some Portland locals for something national and upscale in hotels, something beyond the funky and small boutique hotels in coverted buildings like the Deluxe or the Lucia.

I've lost track of how many times I've seen folks in this forum excitedly mention a rumored W hotel coming to downtown or the Pearl. If Portland got a big, splashy 25 story W hotel in a custom built tower with a great spa, two fabulous restaurants and a sleek cocktail lounge with a dress code, it could probably get a 4 Star rating if the service was really very good. And yet I imagine a great many locals would roll their eyes and denounce such a facility as too Californian, too flashy, and definitely "not Portland". :haha:

[MightyAlweg]

I hope you enjoy your stay, but Portland is more about the city than the hotel.

Thank you! I'm actually "coming home" for a 20th high school reunion. I lived in Portland for about five years in the 1980's and graduated from Wilson. I don't make it back to Portland very often, but I love the city and am looking forward to my long weekend there. :tup:

[bvpcvm]

splashy 25 story W hotel in a custom built tower with a great spa, two fabulous restaurants and a sleek cocktail lounge with a dress code, it could probably get a 4 Star rating if the service was really very good. And yet I imagine a great many locals would roll their eyes and denounce such a facility as too Californian, too flashy, and definitely "not Portland". :haha:

you've definitely got that right - that sounds horrible.

[rsbear]

And yet I imagine a great many locals would roll their eyes and denounce such a facility as too Californian, too flashy, and definitely "not Portland". :haha:

Oh, I suppose that's possible, just as it's possible a great many locals thinking a W a great addition to the city. I've stayed at a W before and it was fine, but nothing to get too excited over for sure. Good price-to-value ratio, though.

[MightyAlweg]

Oh, I suppose that's possible, just as it's possible a great many locals thinking a W a great addition to the city. I've stayed at a W before and it was fine, but nothing to get too excited over for sure. Good price-to-value ratio, though.

Yes, I'm no fan of W hotels myself. Way too over-rated and way to pretentious without having the goods to back up the attitude. A W tends to be at its worst in those second tier cities, like San Diego (I had a drink in the bar there recently, and I nearly cried laughing at the "scene" trying to be made there.) They are building a W near me here in OC, in Huntington Beach, and it should prove just as tragic as the rest of the second-tier cities with a W; San Diego, Atlanta, Minneapolis, Dallas, etc.

A W really only works as it was designed to in places like LA, New York, London, and maybe Vegas on a good day. Otherwise it's just full of poseurs trying hard to be LA, New York, London, or Vegas on a good day.

And yet, just from my time on this forum, there seems to be this sense that a W hotel in downtown Portland would mean something to someone. Not for me though.

A Conrad, however, now that's another story for me.

What about a Ritz-Carlton or a Four Seasons for Portland? Those are more conservative 4 Star hotels that might not get the rolled eyes treatment from lifelong Portlanders. What's the thought on a Ritz or a Four Seasons finally making it to Portland sometime in the future? Or would that also be too upscale to deal with for some folks?

[zilfondel]

If Portland got a big, splashy 25 story W hotel in a custom built tower with a great spa, two fabulous restaurants and a sleek cocktail lounge with a dress code, it could probably get a 4 Star rating if the service was really very good. And yet I imagine a great many locals would roll their eyes and denounce such a facility as too Californian, too flashy, and definitely "not Portland".


Hey, if it had a rock-climbing wall and bike rentals, we probably wouldn't complain too much. :P
Oh, and if they had local brews on tap, it would help too!

[bvpcvm]

And yet, just from my time on this forum, there seems to be this sense that a W hotel in downtown Portland would mean something to someone.

i thought the enthusiasm for a W in pdx was related to the potential for some flashy architecture, more than any sort of prestige or anything.

are you in the hotel industry, or is it just "normal" for people in LA (ok, OC) to give this this much thought? (not trying to be rude, just mystified)

[rsbear]

I'm not sure I follow this concern over what the "locals" (about half of whom were not even born in Oregon) would think of this or that hotel brand. Maybe I'm off on this one, but I see most hotel services, save the restaurants, as being used mostly by out-of-town guests.

As for PDX hotels - my business associates from LA and San Fran have come back from Portland raving about Hotel Lucia (not sure I spelled that right) and The Heathman. Somehow I don't think a really nice chain hotel would have made as great an impression because that type of experience can be had almost anywhere.

[urbanlife]

I would have to agree, the idea of getting a W is more about the possibility that Portland might get some architecture that could be flashy, something that tends to be a rare thing...granted nothing to complain about, just pointing it out. I think any city would be happy to get a Ritz...hell I have never lived in a city that had one, so that would be something new to me.

Lately I have noticed more locals staying in local hotels due to the higher costs to traveling, but still the large companies such as Nike are the ones that are really filling the hotels in Portland.

But actually to go along with this debate on what quality hotel means to Portland. In Portland you can find plenty of amazing food and dine in tshirt and jeans if you wanted to. There is no place that really has a sever dress code in order to enjoy amazing local chefs and food. Our hotels are the same way, we dont need to cater to this higher class because if they wish to experience Portland, then they best be prepared to do it on our level. Now saying that, I am fully aware that there are people out there that turn their nose to that idea...those tend to be the same people that whine about great coffee being a five block walk and instead go to Starbucks because it is what they know. (and that is a true story, had an out of towner ask me where coffee was)


I guess the best way to look at it, we are trying to be like ourselves, not like everyone else...which is funny because rsbear is right, about half of us are not born here (I am one of them, but I now consider myself a Portlander.)

[MightyAlweg]

are you in the hotel industry, or is it just "normal" for people in LA (ok, OC) to give this this much thought? (not trying to be rude, just mystified)

No, I'm not in the hotel industry, I just travel a lot for business and pleasure. I enjoy good service in all industries; hotels, restaurants, transportation, retail, spas, etc.

I have a reservation at Aequis Spa in Portland this Saturday, and it's one of the best urban day spas I've found on the West Coast. I'm looking forward to it!

I generally don't enjoy paying money to someone and then not receiving quality goods and services for my hard earned cash. And the Service Gene is something that is rather rare in 21st century America, so it's nice to see when it is done well. Japan has AMAZING service that blows pretty much anything in America out of the water.

I'm looking forward to my stay at Hotel DeLuxe. I tried to book a nice room at Hotel Lucia but they were all booked except for their smaller rooms, so I found something nice at DeLuxe instead. Same company though, with hotels up in the Seattle area too.

I'm really looking forward to The Nines however. I'll stay there this winter when I go back to Portland for a few days. Let's just not think it's going to be a Four Star or Five Star type property. Three Stars with a very hip vibe is what I'm expecting from The Nines.

[MightyAlweg]

are you in the hotel industry, or is it just "normal" for people in LA (ok, OC) to give this this much thought? (not trying to be rude, just mystified)

Actually, it might be a SoCal thing too. I know myself and my friends, and coworkers around the water cooler, often talk of the latest hotel or hippest new spot in Palm Springs, San Diego, Laguna Beach, etc.

Myself and friends go for weekends in Palm Springs or San Diego and we like to stay in the hottest new hotels. And then we compare/contrast notes on Monday. Or we like to go for dinner or drinks at the latest place more locally here in OC; Laguna Beach, Newport Beach, Disneyland Resort area, etc.

If this concept is foreign to Portlanders, perhaps it's more of a SoCal thing. I never really thought about it though. Who doesn't want to check out the latest new hot spot? Although I also have my list of old favorites I enjoy too.

[bvpcvm]

In Portland you can find plenty of amazing food and dine in tshirt and jeans if you wanted to. There is no place that really has a sever dress code in order to enjoy amazing local chefs and food.

supposedly (according to willamette week a few years ago - things might have changed, i suppose), there isn't a restaurant in portland that actually has a dress code. :cheers:

[bvpcvm]

I generally don't enjoy paying money to someone and then not receiving quality goods and services for my hard earned cash. And the Service Gene is something that is rather rare in 21st century America, so it's nice to see when it is done well. Japan has AMAZING service that blows pretty much anything in America out of the water.

not to belabor this, but i just have a hard time understanding what you're talking about. for instance, service that's too friendly or chatty just drives me up the wall, i.e. i'm not here to be your friend, dude, just make me the damn sandwich already. maybe that's just me - i want my customer service efficient, non-intrusive (and polite is an added bonus). if, by good service, you mean something additional to that, i'd be interested in hearing it.

[Okstate]

I'm going to have to assume El Gaucho has a dress code. I went there and saw no one "underdressed".

[65MAX]

^^^^
No, no dress code there either. I've eaten there in jeans and a T-shirt. I wouldn't be surprised if it was actually illegal in Portland for public restaurants to discriminate based on attire.

[Room 606]

Here's a photo from the Starwood Luxury Collection website for The Nines:

http://www.starwoodhotels.com/pub/media/1757/lux1757gr.61279_ub.jpg

I can't say this is my style. But something tells me I'm not in their target demographic.

I am excited about the restaurants, which are described as follows:

Departure

Cuisine: Asian
hours: 4:00 PM - 1:00 AM
Atmosphere: Eclectic
Setting: Rooftop


The Library

Cuisine: Bar Menu
hours: 6:00 AM - 11:00 PM
Atmosphere: Cocktails
Setting: Relaxed

Urban Farmer

Cuisine: Steak
hours: 6:00 AM - 11:00 PM
Atmosphere: Casual Sophistication
Setting: Atrium


http://www.starwoodhotels.com/luxury/property/overview/index.html?propertyID=1757

[pdxman]

The one thing I noticed while looking at the website of the luxury collection was the rich company The Nines is in with the rest of the hotels. If you look through them you'll see how incredibly nice all of them are and I'd imagine this one wouldn't be any less.

[PacificNW]

I am a little surprised that the rooms didn't include an IPod/MP3 dock with their electronics. I am just being picky. The hotel looks to be very nice.

[rsbear]

Actually, it might be a SoCal thing too. I know myself and my friends, and coworkers around the water cooler, often talk of the latest hotel or hippest new spot in Palm Springs, San Diego, Laguna Beach, etc.

Myself and friends go for weekends in Palm Springs or San Diego and we like to stay in the hottest new hotels. And then we compare/contrast notes on Monday. Or we like to go for dinner or drinks at the latest place more locally here in OC; Laguna Beach, Newport Beach, Disneyland Resort area, etc.

If this concept is foreign to Portlanders, perhaps it's more of a SoCal thing. I never really thought about it though. Who doesn't want to check out the latest new hot spot? Although I also have my list of old favorites I enjoy too.


Maybe it's an Orange County thing? I live in LA and work in Beverly Hills and "the latest" or "hottest" is rarely a conversation topic at home, with friends or at work.

[MightyAlweg]

Maybe it's an Orange County thing? I live in LA and work in Beverly Hills and "the latest" or "hottest" is rarely a conversation topic at home, with friends or at work.

Must be an OC thing then. But we really don't head up to LA for that. LA is a different world compared to OC. We normally talk San Diego, Laguna/Newport, and in winter Palm Springs. The younger folks talk Vegas, but that's not my scene at all.

[MightyAlweg]

not to belabor this, but i just have a hard time understanding what you're talking about. for instance, service that's too friendly or chatty just drives me up the wall, i.e. i'm not here to be your friend, dude, just make me the damn sandwich already. maybe that's just me - i want my customer service efficient, non-intrusive (and polite is an added bonus). if, by good service, you mean something additional to that, i'd be interested in hearing it.

I think you are using the Cheesecake Factory at Washington Square as a barometer of what "good service" is. That would be a mistake. :D Any restaurant where the waiter/waitress says more than 10 words to you at a time is a place that is not offering good service. It sounds like we agree on that.

The role of service industry employees is to be of service to the customer. The employee should not intrude or insert themselves into the lives of the customer. When a customer makes eye contact with an employee in a fine hotel for instance, the employee needs to say something like "Good Morning, Ma'am" or "Good Evening, Sir", but otherwise the hotel employee should be silent and wait to be called upon.

The Japanese are fabulous at this, even in lower range locations like Starbucks or cheaper business hotels. The Japanese truly have service down to an art form. And if you spend the extra money to stay in a 3 Star hotel or above, the service will blow you away. So crisp, so profesional, so polished. Not a thing goes unnoticed and unattended to, and at a place like the Tokyo Conrad they anticipate your every need and your every move through the lobby or bar or pool. When you go for a swim at the Conrad's 35th floor indoor pool and you make a move towards the stairs to exit the pool, you immediately have a warmed, perfectly folded and lightly scented towel silently handed to you with a bow by an imaccuately dressed hostess. Her skin and hair is flawlessly groomed, and she looks like a Japanese Barbie.

Americans are far less polished at service. Good service to us is having a stack of towels in a bin somewhere near the pool. Shlep over and get your own towel yourself. And it's not warmed, nor scented, nor handed to you with a bow by an elegant hostess. But hey, they got extra towels down at the pool! This is a nice place!

Don't even get me started on cocktail lounges in Tokyo hotels. Again at the Conrad, the martini I had each evening was served in gorgeous glassware and placed on a perfectly pressed and starched linen cocktail napkin. Halfway through the drink as condensation forms, the napkin is swiftly and silently replaced with a fresh one at the perfect moment when the bartender knew I wouldn't reach for the glass. Linen. Starched. Perfect.

As nice as The Nines will be, I have a hunch the napkins at the bar will be standard paper, and will be allowed to get soggy under my glass and sit on the bar until I leave.

Should a nice hotel in Portland need to live up to standards of something like the Tokyo Conrad? No, probably not. But when people start throwing around the concept that The Nines will be "Five Star", or even "Four Star", it would be helfpul to realize exactly what The Nines is up against on an international scale.

[IanofCascadia]

:previous: Gawd... I think I'll have nightmares after reading that (no offense). Really, when I stay someplace I don't want to feel "like royalty", I just want to have fun and not have to worry. My favorite places that I have stayed have been fairly small and casual, even often times bed and breakfasts (if any of you are up in Winthrop, be sure to stay at the Chewuch Inn).

I've stayed at several large 4-star plus hotels (though nothing to the "level" of the Tokyo Conrad) and have quite frankly been disappointed for the price. The mere idea of someone waiting on me has always felt so condescending, as though they are merely a servant or slave. And to be honest, much of the reason that you find such good service in Japan is because submission has always been a central part of Japanese culture. The idea of sacrificing one's self for the greater good (or in this case Hilton's profit margins and your comfort) is really what's behind such Japanese service.

[MightyAlweg]

And to be honest, much of the reason that you find such good service in Japan is because submission has always been a central part of Japanese culture. The idea of sacrificing one's self for the greater good (or in this case Hilton's profit margins and your comfort) is really what's behind such Japanese service.

Yes, there are major cultural forces at work there behind the flawless service. But then that is part of the fun of experiencing foreign cultures. It would be a shame if the whole planet was like Beaverton and The Pearl.

Regardless of the centuries old socio-cultural forces at work in Tokyo that's raised service to an art form, they sure know how to make a perfect Vodka Gimlet. :D

I look forward to putting the bartender at The Nines to the test this winter, and the bartender at Hotel DeLuxe to the test this weekend.

[urbanlife]

Must be an OC thing then. But we really don't head up to LA for that. LA is a different world compared to OC. We normally talk San Diego, Laguna/Newport, and in winter Palm Springs. The younger folks talk Vegas, but that's not my scene at all.

yeah, not to argue or talk bad, but from my point of view in Portland, that is not a Portland thing at all, which might be why you are less impressed with the hotels here. We are more happy that the Nines is meeting LEED requirements than being a world class hotel. Portland has never been a city out to impress anyone outside Portland.



okay, I work in the service industry here in Portland and I think you are cutting close to being offense to someone in this industry. You seem to have the idea of people in there service industry as something more along the lines of "help." I work hard at what I do and consider myself very friendly with people that I help and trust me, I know my shit in the service industry, but I deserve respect for doing good work, not treated like I am there because I am not "rich" enough to have others "helping me." Just thought I should mention that and give you some fair warning.

[bvpcvm]

I think you are using the Cheesecake Factory at Washington Square as a barometer of what "good service" is. That would be a mistake. :D

hahahahahahaha!!!! i've been there ONE TIME and it was truly awful. i asked the waitress if we could go in the back and check out the "factory", because i was feeling obnoxious, and she let it slip that their factory is actually somewhere in the carolinas, and everything's flown in overnight. but yeah, i guess i see what you're saying, sort of.