[HX_Guy]

Summit at Copper Square - 23 Floors 253'

Elevator core has reached the 23rd and final floor, the rest of the building is at floor #18.

http://www.nitnelav.com/DowntownDec01/IMG_4210.JPG
http://www.nitnelav.com/DowntownDec01/IMG_4211.JPG


44 Monroe - 34 Floors 380'

Concrete has been poured for the 8th floor.

http://www.nitnelav.com/DowntownDec01/IMG_4215.JPG
http://www.nitnelav.com/DowntownDec01/IMG_4226.JPG


Sheraton Downtown Hotel - 31 Floors 360'

Work is finishing up on the 3rd floor, 4th floor should be under construction shortly.

http://www.nitnelav.com/DowntownDec01/IMG_4232.JPG

[nbrindley]

Any news on Cielo lately?

[sundevilgrad]

Nothing new on Cielo, but here's a link to their website if you haven't seen it:
http://www.cielophoenix.com/

[JimInCal]

Look at the view from the Cielo web site. It's more like from the top of South Mountain than from where Cielo will be.

http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/9034/cieloviewxh0.jpg

[GeorgeLV]

A model of the Cielo Phoenix towers shown at the pre-sales grand opening (photo credit to Soleri). Not the most inspiring buildings, but at least they should be pretty tall (for Phoenix) with 36 floors and probably around 400'.

http://img481.imageshack.us/img481/2874/p1010013fe0.jpg

Ugh, more "Phoenix-ized" architecture. C'mon guys, check out this building (the blue one, 45 floors) just done by the same developer in Las Vegas. Honestly, which one would you rather have?


http://img243.imageshack.us/img243/8376/skylasvegas001sxw5.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
(Photo credit: Don Pacho at SSC / SSP / SSL)

[sundevilgrad]

Ugh, more "Phoenix-ized" architecture. C'mon guys, check out this building (the blue one, 45 floors) just done by the same developer in Las Vegas. Honestly, which one would you rather have?

Looks an awful lot like 44 Monroe which is under construction now in DT Phoenix, they're currently on the 10th floor...

http://www.44monroe.com/images/tower_large2.jpg

[JimInCal]

Ugh, more "Phoenix-ized" architecture. C'mon guys, check out this building (the blue one, 45 floors) just done by the same developer in Las Vegas. Honestly, which one would you rather have?

I gotta tell ya, I prefer the Cielo design. It is more imaginative then the Vegas tower, albeit not as tall. The Cielo towers have the large, wrap-around terraces on the upper floors, that are slightly spiralled as well. I don't see this at all being "Phoenix-ized" as there is nothing like it anywhere in Phoenix. You'll need to explain yourself unless you're just trying to pick a fight.

[PHX602]

Besides the height, that Vegas tower is boring. I'll take Cielo.

[GeorgeLV]

I gotta tell ya, I prefer the Cielo design. It is more imaginative then the Vegas tower, albeit not as tall. The Cielo towers have the large, wrap-around terraces on the upper floors, that are slightly spiralled as well. I don't see this at all being "Phoenix-ized" as there is nothing like it anywhere in Phoenix. You'll need to explain yourself unless you're just trying to pick a fight.

The top-heaviness strikes me as reminiscent of the early Central Park East renderings. The wrap around terraces are neat, but I don't think the balance between the two towers works. But, really, my problem it with the (lack of) a crown. It makes it look too much like an office building waiting for the 20 ft letters to signify the anchor tenant.

[nbrindley]

Yeah, a crown would definitely be a nice addition to the top. I have to say that the lighting in the pic of the model certainly does not do it justice. It looks boring-beige in that pic, especially with the yellowish interior lighting.

[JimInCal]

I think this one is a little more flattering than the model because of the lighting in the office where the model is located. Looks white with blue glass. :rolleyes:

http://img278.imageshack.us/img278/5122/cieloext1wz5.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[GeorgeLV]

I think this one is a little more flattering than the model because of the lighting in the office where the model is located. Looks white with blue glass. :rolleyes:

http://img278.imageshack.us/img278/5122/cieloext1wz5.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Actually, it just makes it look more like a Frankenstein building. Fairly standard residential stuff, than wham, 2/3 of the way up there's a random suburban office park midrise glued to the top. If you just took off that last 20 feet facing the top it would look perfectly fine.

Here's a crude MSPaint of what it would look like.

http://img291.imageshack.us/img291/2126/cielomodifiedbr1.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[Dylan Leblanc]

that is such an absurd looking design!

it does look better white part at the top

[JimInCal]

I'll chalk this one up to personal taste...and leave it at that. :tup:

[MagnumMike]

Don't know if this link has been posted here yet, but it's a fairly comprehensive reporting section from the AZ Republic on DT development:cheers:

http://www.azcentral.com/specials/downtownphx/

There's a lot of good stuff in that link, in particular, the plans to build a mixed use structure at the northwest corner of Central and McDowell. I hope something is done soon because that coner has been an empty dirt lot for too long now.

I'm wondering about the plans to expand the Hotel San Carlos, where the heck are they going to put the tower? If they were to put up the high-rise, it would have to be on Monroe, which would be blocked.

[smArTaLlone]

Great to see Phoenix building up, up, up. :tup:
That blue & white Cielo rendering looks a little Miami-ish to me.

[sundevilgrad]

[color=navy
I'm wondering about the plans to expand the Hotel San Carlos, where the heck are they going to put the tower? If they were to put up the high-rise, it would have to be on Monroe, which would be blocked.[/color]

I haven't heard anything about that plan, other than the article. IMO, I think the owners were pipe dreaming towards the end of the boom cycle and I would be very suprised to see the project happen. However, I would love to be proved wrong!

[HX_Guy]

Not much information on this one, but it appears a hotel is slated for the parking lot directly west of US Airways Arena and south of the future CityScape site.

http://www.owp.com/images/projects/commercial/thumbs/00001.jpg

http://www.owp.com/images/projects/commercial/thumbs/0002d.jpg

http://www.owp.com/images/projects/commercial/thumbs/0003d.jpg

It looks to be 35+ stories and part of the land is owned by the city which might give it a bit more chance then a completely private project.

[HX_Guy]

New 16-story Ball Park Lofts to offer office, retail

Christia Gibbons
The Business Journal

A 16-story office condo building east of Chase Field and Seventh Street called Ball Park Lofts is in the works, a project of first-time high-rise developer Wayne McIntosh.

While it's early in the process, McIntosh said he's hoping to have the building at 811 E. Jackson St. up in two and a half years.

The project -- being developed by Ball Park Lofts LLC, consisting of McIntosh and other investors -- will offer offices above first-floor retail. Early projections are that office space will sell from $300,000 to $450,000 depending on size, and lease for $30 to $45 per square foot. Entire floors can be bought or leased, as can other configurations of space.

Architect Greg Mueller of San Diego-based Tucker Sadler Architects was hired for the project. Mueller has worked on Phoenix-area developments such as DC Ranch in North Scottsdale, the Hilton at Fountain Hills and WestGate City Center in Glendale.

"It's an ideal location for affordable office space," said leasing agent Dennis Kolodin of Realty Executives. "Obviously it will have beautiful views."

Kolodin also is the retail leasing agent for Orpheum Lofts, Tapestry on Central and Landmark on Central.

He said the Ball Park Lofts will not be in direct competition with the nearby CityScape project, as the land east of Seventh Street is "significantly less expensive than on the other side of the street."

Still, there's always some competition, and he and McIntosh said they hope the project is up before CityScape. The much-touted residential/office/hotel/entertainment project is planned for three city blocks from First Avenue to Second Street and Jefferson to Washington streets.

CityScape is scheduled for a first-phase opening in 2009, with completion in 2011. Developers include RED Development LLC, Barron Collier Cos., Novare Group, Cardon Development Group and Callison Architects.

A 25-year resident of the town of Paradise Valley and originally from Los Angeles, McIntosh was an investment banker for 20 years and a Denny's franchisee in Oklahoma, Texas, Louisiana and Arkansas. He's also worked with Bill Prather of El Paso Bar-B-Que Co.

"I love what's happening in downtown Phoenix," McIntosh said, remembering going to Suns games at the Veterans Memorial Coliseum. Thanks go to the city's redevelopment efforts and "Jerry Colangelo for bringing everything into downtown," McIntosh said of his interest in the area.

McIntosh said he has owned the land for about eight months, but would not reveal what he paid because he's trying to acquire more in the area. Light rail and railroad lines will be close by, he said.

"I could live anywhere in the country, and I've picked here. I adore it," he said.

At one time, he and his wife contemplated moving back to Newport Beach, Calif., but being stuck in traffic trying to take their children to Disneyland convinced them to stay in Arizona.

As for his downtown project, McIntosh said he'd like to be the first one out with some office lofts.

Get connected
CityScape: www.downtownphxrising.org.

Realty Executives, Dennis Kolodin: 602-315-9292.

Tucker Sadler Architects: www.tuckersadler.com.

[PHX602]

Here's two more models of Cielo I found on another site.

http://img206.imageshack.us/img206/7517/cielo2bm5.jpg

http://img223.imageshack.us/img223/2290/cielo3av7.jpg

[combusean]

I'm wondering about the plans to expand the Hotel San Carlos, where the heck are they going to put the tower? If they were to put up the high-rise, it would have to be on Monroe, which would be blocked.

There are basically two alternatives the Mellikans (sp?) were floating.

One involved construction of a tower on the roughly P-shaped western 1/3rd of the property that is not under any historic preservation ordinance, the shorter part where Seamus McCaffrey's (excellent, excellent food) is now. It would be very, very close to the massing of 44 Monroe. I believe this part was constructed in 1955.

The other alternative would be an addition on top of the hotel itself in either a modern architectural style or essentially bring the Italian Renaissance look of the current building to substantial height. This will require a "Certificate of Appropriateness" from the city HP committee, and we all know how fun that will be.

There is an excellent write-up of the hotel's history on http://www.hotelsancarlos.com/history.html--it is remarkably well preserved, especially for Phoenix. I am not a structural engineer, but I assume plopping a tower on top would require significant changes to the interior, which altho are not generally covered under the ordinance, it would piss off any number of anti's and preservationists. Tho who knows--they simply built buildings better back in 1927. Adding height might not be so difficult.

[colemonkee]

http://www.owp.com/images/projects/commercial/thumbs/00001.jpg
This is a great looking tower, but the parking base is awful. If they could put some glass around those voids, then vent the thing it would look ten times better.

[JimInCal]

I agree c-monkee. The parking podium dominates the street scene, being the first 10-11 floors. If this gets built, I hope they rethink the parking structure.

[HX_Guy]

http://www.nitnelav.com/hotels_pic1.jpg

As we celebrate the 75th anniversary of the original 1931 Valley National Bank building, Grace Communities is renovating this historic landmark and reopening the doors as the Hotel Monroe. When completed, this chic newly renovated boutique hotel will be located in downtown Phoenix in the center of Copper Square at the intersection of Central Avenue and Monroe Street, arguably one of the finest locations in the valley. The Hotel Monroe provides approximately 144 rooms ranging from standard, junior suites and one and two bedroom suites. The eleventh floor of the hotel will be designated as the concierge floor featuring several unique suites & penthouses. The twelfth floor will feature a unique nightclub with sunset views of downtown and the valley. Hotel guests will enjoy a variety of cuisine options and entertainment venues including a five star restaurant and lounge, wine bar, night clubs and a barista café. Executive boardrooms and meeting rooms will be abundant. The boutique hotel's accommodating amenities are sure to please every discriminating taste-just a few examples are 24 hour room service, full service spa with saunas and whirlpool, a state of the art fitness center, yoga room and outdoor sundecks with cabanas.

The building as it stands today, with the ground floor completely unused and boarded up.

http://www.nitnelav.com/ProfessionalBuilding.jpg

[JimInCal]

:previous: There are so many things I like about the reuse of this old bank building as a small hotel. The amenities it will bring to the area are substantial, with a 5-star restaurant, wine bar and night club on the top floor. It's great to add more hotel rooms to support the convention center expansion as well. It's on the light rail line and across the street from a major new condo tower, 44 Monroe. This will give the residents of 44 Monroe some nice night-life options right outside their front door.

This reminds me of a hotel I stayed in near Union Square in San Francisco. Quaint, classic 30's architecture with a history and a personality. The high visability, grandios projects are great but it's these smaller, quieter projects that add texture, interest and soulfulness to a city. Well done Grace. :rolleyes:

[JimInCal]

HXGuy, what happened to the rendering of the Hotel Monroe? It has disappeared from the post here and on the Phx Devel thread as well.

[HX_Guy]

January 08, 2007 Updates


44 Monroe - 34 Stories - 411 ft.

http://www.nitnelav.com/DowntownJan08/DowntownJan08%20002.jpg

Sheraton Downtown Hotel - 31 Stories - 360 ft.

January 08, 2007

http://www.nitnelav.com/DowntownJan08/DowntownJan08%20008.jpg

http://www.nitnelav.com/DowntownJan08/DowntownJan08%20011.jpg

http://www.nitnelav.com/DowntownJan08/DowntownJan08%20005.jpg

Summit at Copper Square - 23 Stories - 253 ft.

http://www.nitnelav.com/DowntownJan08/DowntownJan08%20025.jpg

http://www.nitnelav.com/DowntownJan08/DowntownJan08%20022.jpg

[sundevilgrad]

Nice pics HX. SCS looks tall from the warehouse district doesn't it?

[BANKofMANHATTAN]

I'm sorry, but those are hideous. :yuck:

I don't care for the style, they remind me of the Crescent City Residences in New Orleans (which they're overhauling to update it - thank god.)

http://img206.imageshack.us/img206/7517/cielo2bm5.jpg

http://img223.imageshack.us/img223/2290/cielo3av7.jpg[/QUOTE]

[JimInCal]

HXGuy, what happened to the rendering of the Hotel Monroe? It has disappeared from the post here and on the Phx Devel thread as well.

The rendering has mysteriously reappeared. Maybe it was my computer at work having a bad day...home has the pic...NEVERMIND :D

[kenc]

I'm sorry, but those are hideous. :yuck:

I don't care for the style, they remind me of the Crescent City Residences in New Orleans (which they're overhauling to update it - thank god.)

http://img206.imageshack.us/img206/7517/cielo2bm5.jpg

http://img223.imageshack.us/img223/2290/cielo3av7.jpg[/QUOTE]

I agree. Really ugly buildings, and we deserve better. More than any other city in America, because Phoenix is is so brand new; 21st century architecture will be norm. Shanghai in the desert. I like the rail system, but I wish the money was there for a heavy rail subway beneath Central ave., and Phoenix would become a linear dense city a la Las Vegas.
Get some Casinos.

[sundevilgrad]

The Light Rail runs along central and will definitely help bridge the gap between midtown and downtown. Investment money is already pouring in along the rail routes and if it continues to follow the trends of Dallas, Denver and Salt Lake I bet we will see midtown and downtown merger within a decade. Heavy rail subway would not work in this city, not to mention that it is extremely cost prohibitive. Street level light rail was the right choice, although it would've been nice if they mixed in some elevated sections in the most congested areas.

As for the design of Cielo, it doesn't do much for me either. I think they should scrap the big, blank billboard facades on the top and go with nice crown of some sorts. The buildings themselves are somewhat slender, so I don't think the model does them justice. Once built I think they will look sleek and not appear as boxy as they do in the model.

[soleri]

The Light Rail runs along central and will definitely help bridge the gap between midtown and downtown. Investment money is already pouring in along the rail routes and if it continues to follow the trends of Dallas, Denver and Salt Lake I bet we will see midtown and downtown merger within a decade. Heavy rail subway would not work in this city, not to mention that it is extremely cost prohibitive. Street level light rail was the right choice, although it would've been nice if they mixed in some elevated sections in the most congested areas.



Light rail will play a somewhat different role here than it does in other cities. Phoenix has a very low employment hub downtown and midtown. In contrast, the downtowns in Dallas and SLC are genuine regional centers. What Phoenix is hoping for is extra urban growth where the impetus is otherwise lackluster. This will necessitate some patience since density along the route is the anticipation, not the current reality.

I still think the Val-Trans model was the correct one (modeled after Vancouver's Sky Train). Downtown would have been the hub and five spokes would have radiated outward. It was very expensive (paid for by property taxes!) but it would have addressed some of the systematic problems with a sprawl-based city. It would have made downtown functional and connected it to the Camelback Corridor. It lost because Phoenix has a perpetual vision problem outside of cheap fixes like freeways.

[NorthScottsdale]

Here are a few of Will Bruder's renderings of the W downtown phoenix hotel that is proposed to go right next to US Airways Center. I absolutely love this design and i hope it works out and gets built to look like this!!!!
This first one is a scale.
http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g237/lucasforstie/Wsection.jpg
And a view looking southeast
http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g237/lucasforstie/Wmodelshot.jpg
A view looking east towards Chase field
http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g237/lucasforstie/Whotelrendernight.jpg
And finally an overhead shot
http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g237/lucasforstie/Whoteloverheadshot.jpg

I LOVE IT! I LOVE IT! I LOVE IT! :D :banana:
I hope that the hotel gets approved and goes ahead with construction. and i hope that they use this design for the building. it would look great

[phillyskyline]

I love the colors of the new W but it looks a bit wide for my taste.

[sundevilgrad]

Here are a few of Will Bruder's renderings of the W downtown phoenix hotel that is proposed to go right next to US Airways Center. I absolutely love this design and i hope it works out and gets built to look like this!!!!
This first one is a scale.


From what I know the Bruder design was not the design that was selected. That is part of the reason that the building is going through such a tough time getting approved. The design they chose requires removing the roof of a historic warehouse that part of Phoenix's old China town. The Bruder design, from what I've heard, would not affect the historic building and would be easier to get approved.

[PHX602]

Here is the final design for the W.

http://img259.imageshack.us/img259/4106/w1xk0.jpg

http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/1553/w2oz1.jpg

http://img259.imageshack.us/img259/381/w3gp5.jpg

http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/8864/w4du6.jpg

[NorthScottsdale]

I think Bruder's design would look a lot better in the skyline. just my personal opinion... if anybody cares

[oliveurban]

^ We care :).

Most of us tend to agree--at least I do--that Bruder's overall design was better, and more exciting.

But, I think at this point just getting the damn thing built at all (and soon) is more important than the ultimate design.

[nbrindley]

yeah, I think the general consensus is that the Bruder design is much more attractive. I think the white version is a bit goofy looking, but as long as it gets built, I don't mind.

[sundevilgrad]

As I've stated before, I think this one is destined for the scrap heap. I hope I'm wrong, but there's to much politicking going on with this project and I think the W is starting to get cold feet.

[NorthScottsdale]

It looks like downtown phoenix will probably be getting another high-rise! I am pretty excited for the downtown medical district that mayor Phil Gordon proposed last week. i think its gonna be between mcdowell and van buren, and from 7th st to 7th avenue. Space is limited here tho, as it says in the article, so they can only go up. Lets hope that we get some more medical-related high-rises in this district!:banana:


A hospital in the sky?
Jodie Snyder
The Arizona Republic
Jan. 30, 2007 07:39 PM

The University of Arizona and Banner Health are beginning to plan for new medical facilities, possibly high-rise hospitals, in downtown Phoenix.

Maricopa Integrated Health System, which owns the county hospital, is still working to derail the agreement between UA and Banner, arguing that it would make a better partner for a UA teaching hospital in Phoenix.

Nonetheless, Banner and UA want to have a more concrete agreement in place by July1. Under the preliminary plan, Banner would build, finance and operate a teaching hospital and cancer center on the biomedical campus at Seventh and Van Buren streets. Details are sketchy, but during a briefing on the project, key Banner officials said they are looking at the possibility of high-rise facilities that would work with Banner Good Samaritan Regional Medical Center, which is less than two miles away. advertisement




Banner officials say the cancer center would have about 140 beds.

The teaching hospital would have about 200 beds and an emergency room. It would treat all patients but would transfer people who need more complex care, such as organ transplants, to Good Sam.

Banner officials say it takes about 36 to 42 months to plan and build a hospital, but the clock doesn't start until the site is selected.

One of the greatest challenges is availability of land. There are 28 acres at the existing campus. Already, UA College of Medicine is there, as is the Translational Genomics Research Institute.

By comparison, Banner built its new hospitals, Banner Estrella Medical Center in the West Valley and Banner Gateway Medical Center in Gilbert, on 50 to 80 acres.

That means that the downtown facilities have nowhere to go but up.

High-rise hospitals are generally more expensive to build and require even more accuracy in predicting demand for hospital beds, said Susan Edwards, president of the Banner Arizona region.

Hospitals that have a large supply of land can build another wing if they run out of room. It is more challenging to add on to a high-rise, she said.

At the same time, Phoenix is looking at the idea of expanding the biomedical campus that would cover a mile rather than just acres.

The College of Medicine says it is important that the new facilities be a five- to seven-minute walk from it. That proximity encourages faculty to go back and forth among the hospital, classrooms and research institutions, said Keith Joiner, medical school dean.

Banner and UA are meeting to discuss space needs and then will report to city officials.

[ASUguy51]

I would think that more developers would be planning some high rise apartments as well to open when light rail is going, asu is more full, ent. district is coming together, etc


not everyone will want to buy, especially first time urbanites who are testing it out....

[Daltnpapi4u]

Here is something interesting to read..

http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/0204warehouse0204.html
Builders coveting historic district

Monica Alonzo-Dunsmoor
The Arizona Republic
Feb. 4, 2007 12:00 AM
Increasing development pressure for high-rise towers in Phoenix's historic Warehouse District has city planners rewriting the rules for building heights and preservation.

Years of work to rejuvenate the heart of downtown Phoenix continues to pay off, and now developers have their eyes on land just south of the city center for skyscraping condominiums.

The Warehouse District, roughly from Madison to Lincoln streets between Seventh Avenue and Seventh Street, is peppered with about 40 warehouses that once stored furniture, produce and other merchandise. Many other warehouses have been demolished over the years to make way for such things as a baseball stadium and a basketball arena.
advertisement


The district was created to preserve the character and unique architectural mix of the buildings in that historic pocket of the city. But the land is prime for development, especially if it lures the dwellers that area desperately needs.

Phoenix Planning Director Debra Stark said the challenge is balancing the competing interests of landowners, developers and historic preservationists.

She said there were real opportunities in the Warehouse District.

"You want to restore and protect the history of a city," she said. "But you also want to allow for the exciting and new development."

There are competing proposals over building heights, but both allow projects up to 250 feet in some parts of the district.

The debate is over what the trade-off should be with developers to preserve the warehouses.

Phoenix planning commissioners say that a developer should be able to build as high as 250 feet on a 30,000-square-foot parcel in exchange for buying a 30-year conservation easement. Or they can simply go to the City Council for approval.

A conservation easement generates money to restore a historic warehouse, then guarantees its protection for at least 30 years.

City staff members say that such preservation efforts should get a developer only up to 140 feet on a 30,000-square-foot parcel and that the City Council should have the final say on anything taller than that.

Some property owners believe neither proposal goes far enough to protect the legacy of those warehouses.

But there is little protection now, even for warehouses on the Phoenix Register of Historic Places. If the owner of a warehouse on that list wants to tear down it down, the city can withhold a demolition permit only for a year.

But officials also are grappling with political concerns, including appeasing developers with high-rise projects just north of the Warehouse District who have plotted their projects based on neighboring buildings being capped at 56 feet, or 80 feet with a waiver.

And 250-foot towers in the Warehouse District could easily mar views or devalue properties.

Planning Commissioner Joan Klechner said any proposal should be simple and straightforward to encourage development in an area that people have talked about improving for more than a decade.

"We finally have developers who understand and are willing to renovate the best of the historic warehouses in exchange for getting as much height as they can for their buildings," she said. "It's a fair trade."

The district has piqued the interest of developers such as Dale Jensen, a Diamondbacks general partner and investor in the Phoenix Suns.

Jensen has closed on a deal to bring the Champ Car World Series street race to that area and is working on an entertainment district there as well. It would create entertainment, retail and dining options in the area.

But Mike Levine, a historic preservationist and property owner, said the proposals give unfair advantage to developers who own or have interest in several properties in the district.

He said that those owners can "buy" all the conservation easements they need from themselves to build their towers. And because preserving a building is defined only as making it watertight and structurally sound, it doesn't guarantee that the historic character of the area will truly be restored.

Another problem is that a developer can buy an easement on a warehouse that needs very little restoration and get the same amount of height credit as investing in a warehouse also worthy of saving but that requires much more work, Levine said.

"This poorly vetted, ill-conceived plan being pushed through to meet the deadline of one developer is not the way to do urban infill," he said. "Especially not at the expense of historic preservation."

Robert Dunn, who owns a small piece of the Warehouse District, questioned why any changes were necessary.

He said that developers have been allowed to go higher than 200 feet in that area, citing the 22-story Summit at Copper Square at Jackson and Fourth streets.

"This is certainly not right for us," he said.

[HX_Guy]

Construction Updates February 05, 2007

44 Monroe: 34 Stories - 411'

http://www.nitnelav.com/DowntownFeb5/DowntownFeb059.JPG
http://www.nitnelav.com/DowntownFeb5/DowntownFeb051.JPG
http://www.nitnelav.com/DowntownFeb5/DowntownFeb053.JPG

Sheraton Downtown Hotel: 31 stories - 360'

http://www.nitnelav.com/DowntownFeb5/DowntownFeb054.JPG
http://www.nitnelav.com/DowntownFeb5/DowntownFeb056.JPG
http://www.nitnelav.com/DowntownFeb5/DowntownFeb057.JPG
http://www.nitnelav.com/DowntownFeb5/DowntownFeb052.JPG

Summit at Copper Square: 23 stories - 253' Topped Off

http://www.nitnelav.com/DowntownFeb5/DowntownFeb055.JPG

215 E McKinley

http://www.nitnelav.com/DowntownFeb5/DowntownFeb058.JPG

[Texas Tuff]

Here is the final design for the W.

http://img259.imageshack.us/img259/4106/w1xk0.jpg

http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/1553/w2oz1.jpg

http://img259.imageshack.us/img259/381/w3gp5.jpg

http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/8864/w4du6.jpg

Cool design. I hope this one gets built despite any political hurdles that might need to be overcome.

[ASUguy51]

Anyone know what happened with the patriots square meeting today?

[combusean]

Compared to the original rendering, they took out and filled in a couple of chunks and slightly reconfigured the other blocks. Their proposal for the park is essentially unchanged.

[HX_Guy]

Anyone know what happened with the patriots square meeting today?

They presented the master plan for all three blocks. I got a shot of one of the slides but not the other showing the side profile, so I drew it up as best as I could remember.


[img]http://www.nitnelav.com/PatriotsSquare%20003.jpg

http://www.nitnelav.com/CityScapePlan.JPG

Mike Ebert, president of RED development, told me that both the inside and outsides (facing the streets) would have retail and they are planning of building heights of "over 400', around 425' ".

The plan is being presented to the city council on Feb. 22nd and hopefully they will vote on it and the vote will be yes so this can start moving forward.

[ASUguy51]

Yeah it's about time they start...everything needs to be opening around the same time so that it makes a bigger splash and more people take notice. From what I've heard the Jackson Street Ent. District is also finally starting to come together.

[HX_Guy]

The redesign of Patriots Park and the conceptual master plan presented by the developers were approved 5-2 tonight.

There were some small changes made since the original plan, I photoshopped the original picture to show the changes.


Original plan:
http://www.nitnelav.com/MasterPlan.jpg

New plan:
http://www.nitnelav.com/MasterPlanRevised.jpg

[HX_Guy]

How's this for an exciting project that we should all keep our eyes on and hope all the pieces fall into place...

Jackson Street Entertianment District - Central Ave to 4th St on Jackson St.


http://www.nitnelav.com/JacksonSt/JacksonSt1.jpg
http://www.nitnelav.com/JacksonSt/JacksonSt2.jpg
http://www.nitnelav.com/JacksonSt/JacksonSt3.jpg
http://www.nitnelav.com/JacksonSt/JacksonSt4.jpg
http://www.nitnelav.com/JacksonSt/JacksonSt5.jpg
http://www.nitnelav.com/JacksonSt/JacksonSt6.jpg
http://www.nitnelav.com/JacksonSt/JacksonSt7.jpg

Pictures are from this month's Contact Magazine.

[sundevilgrad]

We can only hope... Would they really hijack the sign from the Pike Place Market in Seattle?

[oliveurban]

^ No, it's purely conceptual. It's simply meant to give us a better idea of the type of large public market they hope to eventually see built on that particular parcel along Jackson St., as part of the completed development.

[MagnumMike]

Couple of things I wanted to mention, I know I haven't posted anything on here for a while, but I drove by the neighborhood where I grew up (3rd Ave & Highland) and then decided to drive down Central and check the progress on many of the projects. I saw that they reduced the number of floors on the Brophy Tower project; at one time I thought it was going to be 50 stories but now it's 36, and I also saw a caption on the sign that said "Middle of 09", I'm not sure if that'll be the ground-breaking or completion date, but I guess the way they've been going with that project, we probably won't see anything there other than the sign and the dirt field by then. :haha:

I continued down on Central and I'm wondering if they're ever going to do anything with that big empty dirt lot between Campbell and Indian School, which has been that way since the mid 1980's.

When I got to Central and Columbus, I was a bit disappointed because about 3 months ago, there were signs and artist's drawings of the Cielo Towers and it looked like a big project was about to take place over there. Now, the signs are gone and there's nothing, other than the chain link fence. Certainly nothing that would indicate a twin 36-story towers project is about to take place at that site.

I haven't been on here for a few months, but does anybody know aything about what's going on there? I know there was a story in the AZ Republic back in November about the project going through and that's the last I heard.

Thanks in advance.

[soleri]

^we've been discussing those issues in Phoenix Development News, which is your best bet to keep current with ongoing projects. We have different standards as to what passes the "smell test" in terms of a project's chances, so not every bit of information gets posted here.

Cielo at Central & Columbus took their signage down after it was tagged. The project is still taking reservations (maybe 50 or so at the moment) and hopes to have a public report in June. They regularly host "parties" in an effort to generate buzz.

I don't know the owner(s) name for the property on Central between Glenrosa & Turney. There's about 20 acres there. In the mid-80s, a developer wanted to build a 50 story skyscraper there. At the time, Mayor Goddard was not happy to have the city's tallest building outside the core. The project never got past the proposal stage. Later, the land went into RTC during the last real-estate bust and was snapped up for a pittance. There it sits, once a staging area for Fiesta Bowl parades, and now not even that.

Brophy Towers has yet to go through any permitting process. It never would have been approved for 50 stories. Still, the developer Gregory Peloquin went to the trouble of hiring Langdon Wilson for its current neo-classical iteration (the previous rendering had a kind of neo-Gothic look). At 36 stories, it would look less monumental. Is Peloquin serious? Yes and no. He's a legitimate businessman who wants to play Trump with a much weaker hand. He keeps his signs regularly updated for future delivery dates, and at this point, there's few who have faith in his vision. But he is dogged so you don't want to discount him entirely. His much smaller Metropolitan Lofts project is inching towards completion.

[StatenIslander237]

I really like the jackson street district, it reminds me a little of the LA live project.....we'll see which one gets completed first...

[MagnumMike]

Thanks for the info Soleri. I'll visit this site more often and stay up to date.

[HX_Guy]

32-story condo tower proposed for downtown Phoenix

Ginger D. Richardson
The Arizona Republic
Mar. 13, 2007 06:17 PM

A developer who has already made his mark in downtown Phoenix with one condominium tower is now proposing a second, 32-story residential project in the heart of the city.

The $100 million development, called Omega, would be located at Second Avenue and Adams Street, behind the Orpheum Lofts. Once built, it would be the third urban housing high-rise downtown.

It is the brainchild of Chicago native turned Phoenix resident David Wallach, who is taking an increasingly active role in the redevelopment of Phoenix's core.

Wallach, principal of W Developments LLC, was the first to take a chance on downtown's urban living appeal when he announced plans to build the 165-unit Summit at Copper Square condominium tower in 2004. Today, that project, located next to Chase Field, is 85 percent sold, and its first residents won't even move in until this summer.

And Wallach is also one of a consortium of local businessmen who recently announced plans to create a blocks-long entertainment district along Jackson Street, on downtown Phoenix's southern edge.

Maybe that explains why Wallach is bullish on the need for residential housing in the heart of the city, despite lingering concerns about the health Phoenix's real estate market.

"The premise that the housing market is soft in downtown is not the right place to start," Wallach said Tuesday. "The right product, in the right neighborhood, has a really good chance of succeeding."

Wallach said he hopes to break ground on Omega later this year, and said the tower could open in 2009. It features one-, two- and three-bedroom units, starting at about $400-plus a square foot. That would put the smallest, 750 square-foot residences in the $300,000 price range.

Penthouse dwellings are as large as 2400 square feet, meaning that they would likely be offered at close to $1 million.

Each of the 214 units will contain amenities like marble baths, granite countertops, and all-wood cabinetry. The tower itself will boast a 12th floor pool, a rooftop party and meeting rooms, workout facilities, six floors of parking and ground floor retail.

Wallach hopes to fill that space with an upscale restaurant.

But he believes one of the project's biggest selling points will be its location. The tower is located across the street from the Orpheum Theatre, and close to Phoenix City Hall. It is also within walking distance to many of downtown's biggest draws, including the Dodge Theatre, US Airways Center and Chase Field.

"It's all about location, location, location," Wallach said. "The sightlines from every part of the building are spectacular."

The plans for the Omega tower come only six months after money constraints and the Valley's flagging real estate market helped kill a mixed-use development known as Central Park East. That project, which would have combined an office tower with high-rise condominiums and academic space for the Arizona State University's downtown Phoenix campus, has since been retooled into a plan for high-end commercial office space.

Wallach quickly douses any suggestion that his development might meet a similar fate.

"Projects don't get built for a variety of reasons," he said. "But I have never announced a project that I didn't actually build."

http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/news/pics/breaking/0313biz-condos.jpg

[plinko]

Not sure if this is posted anywhere...

OFFICIAL HEIGHT OF CIELO

Per the drawings from DeStefano, the height of the roof is 374'-10" and the height of the elevator/mechanical penthouse is 399'-0". There are 36 floors in each tower. The loft building is 9 stories but I didn't write down the height (was something like 130'). So if built, these would be the tallest buildings in Midtown.

I have no other information on the status of the project, but I do have a set of drawings that I can gain access to.

[andrewkfromaz]

HX Guy thanks for the drawings for Patriot's Square. I'm not happy. I prefer the tables and umbrellas to the vast grassy area. We have that already at Margaret T. Hance Park, and you can ask anyone nearby who uses that space. Homeless people. The tables and umbrellas are more human-scale than the modified plan.
I have pretty high hopes for this project, it could be key, but it could also be a huge disappointment. I'd say anything even remotely resembling the AZ Center would fall into the latter category...

[andrewkfromaz]

Something I missed:
Would the existing Downtown Phoenix Public Market be relocated to Jackson St.? I think the current location (Central and McKinley) adds quite a bit of value for Encanto and Coronado residents, not to mention Roosevelt and Evans-Churchill. It seems like Jackson St. is targeted to out-of-downtowners, either suburbanites or tourists. The current Public Market might also be targeted to that group, but it could be a huge asset for the historic districts and new residential development in the long run.
I hope they can keep it up on the northern end of downtown for the long term, which shouldn't be too hard, given the amount of vacant land...

[Double L]

On that Jackson Street Entertainment District project...what exactly are they doing? Are they using tax incentives to bring that development onto the street? Do they know the development is coming? Is a private developer building this? Or are they just doing street improvements and the development in the rendering is entirely conceptual? Or are vthere also tax incentives and contracts with developers involved?

[PHX31]

/\ I'm not sure of all of the details, but it is a private developer, I'm pretty sure it is one of the owners of the Diamondbacks. There is a corresponding champ car race being held in the same area, they are kind of intertwined, and the champ car race is already set to begin this November.

[PHX31]

Not sure if these have been posted.

Central Park East, to the north across the street from the Chase Building, 383'. This will bring much needed office space downtown:
http://img152.imageshack.us/img152/2470/centparkeastno9.jpg

New design of the Cosmopolitan Tower, which is now 21 stories instead of 16.

http://img358.imageshack.us/img358/9365/cosmotwrkr5.jpg

Thanks to JiminCal for posting the pics on the MW forum originally.

[HX_Guy]

Downdown Construction Updates: April 13th, 2007


44 Monroe now at 22 physical floors built.
http://www.nitnelav.com/DowntownApril13/6.jpg
http://www.nitnelav.com/DowntownApril13/16.jpg
http://www.nitnelav.com/DowntownApril13/14.jpg

Summit at Copper Square.
http://www.nitnelav.com/DowntownApril13/7.jpg

Sheraton Hotel, at 17 physical floors, with 215. McKinley in the foreground.
http://www.nitnelav.com/DowntownApril13/1.jpg
http://www.nitnelav.com/DowntownApril13/9.jpg

215. E McKinley Condos.
http://www.nitnelav.com/DowntownApril13/2.jpg

Phoenix Convention Center.
http://www.nitnelav.com/DowntownApril13/5.jpg

Alta Phoenix site undergoing some sort of work.
http://www.nitnelav.com/DowntownApril13/8.jpg

Central Park East.
http://www.nitnelav.com/DowntownApril13/13.jpg

Light Rail Station at Van Buren and Central.
http://www.nitnelav.com/DowntownApril13/17.jpg

Walter Cronkite School of Journalism site undergoing preperation work.
http://www.nitnelav.com/DowntownApril13/10.jpg

Light Rail power lines on Washington at 52nd St.
http://www.nitnelav.com/DowntownApril13/19.jpg
http://www.nitnelav.com/DowntownApril13/20.jpg

[chriswaz]

Here is a artist rendition of the renovated Professional Building which will reopen as the Hotel Monroe. It's great to see this building finally getting its remake. I look forward to spending some time on the roof top bar! Article from the Business Journal follows image.

http://www.gracecommunities.net/images/hotels_pic1.jpg

Vaulting Ahead: Boutique hotel slated for historic building
The Business Journal of Phoenix - April 20, 2007 by Mike Padgett

Jim Poulin/The Business Journal
Jonathon Vento opens the giant vault door in downtown Phoenix’s Professional Building, which is being converted into a 150-room boutique hotel. The vault will be a featured attraction in a new restaurant set to open in Hotel Monroe in late 2008.

A historic office building in downtown Phoenix that has sat vacant for two decades is slated for rebirth as a 150-room boutique hotel.

The interior of the Professional Building, erected in 1931 as a bank and medical office at the southeast corner of Central Avenue and Monroe Street, is undergoing interior demolition by Grace Communities.

The building is set to reopen in late 2008 as Hotel Monroe. Its ground floor will have a bar, a restaurant "and a high-end gourmet chocolate and champagne shop," its developer says.

The new design includes another restaurant in the basement next to the bank vault, which will be converted into a wine bar and chef's demonstration room.

Entering the building's cavernous main floor is like stepping back into a time when grand hotels and luxury restaurants were the haunts of social notables such as author F. Scott Fitzgerald and Hollywood titans Humphrey Bogart and Greta Garbo.

That is the ambience sought by Grace Communities partners Jonathon Vento and the father-son team of Don and Ryan Zeleznak.
Hollywood chic

The main attraction on the ground floor will be the Gazelle Restaurant, with "a very, very sophisticated classic design, like the old Hollywood era," Vento says.

Vento and the Zeleznaks have hired Summit Builders as the contractor and Westlake Reed Leskosky as architect. The interior designer is Kay Lang + Associates of Los Angeles.

"We are going to make some beautiful memories here," Vento says. "We're doing everything we can to preserve and recall the old memories that are already here."

Grace Communities' plan for the Professional Building is backed by a competitor, Rob Melikian, whose family owns the Hotel San Carlos at the northeast corner of Central and Monroe.

"That is a critically important building for downtown Phoenix," Melikian says. "It has a gorgeous lobby. No one's done much with it in so many years, you feel like it's a time machine there."

During a tour of the building, Vento radiates enthusiasm for the future Hotel Monroe. He roams from the lobby, to the basement vault, to the 12th floor and roof.

In the lobby, he indicates sites for an octagonal bar and space for a piano and jazz combo. He points to where high-dollar deals could be forged over drinks in private high-backed, leather-covered booths.

He waves to the ceiling where crystal chandeliers will hang. He points to the granite floors and brass fittings, which will be cleaned and revived.
Raising the bar

Vento guides his visitors to the stairs leading to the basement vault. He describes how an intimate restaurant will fit into the space outside the vault, and how the vault itself will be converted into a wine bar and chef's demonstration room with climate-controlled wine racks.

Vento says he and the Zeleznaks plan to raise the bar in downtown Phoenix redevelopment.

"We're very comfortable working outside the box and in doing things that haven't been done before," he says, dusting off his hands after wrestling with the massive vault door.

He heads for the stairs behind him and then to the elevator at the other end of the building.

"Let's go up to the 11th floor," he says.

When the elevator doors reopen, Vento's enthusiasm continues.

"Look at the detail," he says, caressing the cast-metal art deco grill over the ventilation openings outside the elevator.

Walking across the gutted 11th floor to the windows, Vento motions to the view of central Phoenix.

"What's so special about this is, even if this were in Chicago or Boston or Philadelphia, cities with great history, this would still be an exciting and important building," he says.

Now he's heading for the 12th floor, which was added in the 1950s with a private dining room and conference rooms for bank officers and their clients. It will be designed into suites fit for presidents.

"This is obviously an important building at an important corner," he says. "It's Central Avenue and Monroe, and our neighbors include the tallest building in the state, and the tallest residential tower in the state, and the Herberger Theater, and the Hyatt Hotel, and the new convention center."

The state's tallest building -- the glass-covered 39-story Chase Tower -- is across the street. A block west of the Professional Building is 44 Monroe, which Grace Communities also is building. It will have 34 floors, making it the state's tallest residential building.

Also nearby on Monroe are the Roman Catholic Diocese of Phoenix at Third Street, and Heritage Square at Seventh Street.
On the drawing board

Now, Vento is climbing the metal ladder to the roof of the Professional Building, visitors in tow. Blueprints call for a rooftop bar and a negative-edge pool with a wind screen and space for patio furniture.

"Any time of day, you could come out and enjoy a drink and enjoy the skyline, and see the sunset and the city lights as they light up," he says.

Ryan Zeleznak adds that, although there have been previous attempts at renovating the building, several major redevelopments downtown have made it more viable. Those include construction of the biotech campus, Arizona State University's expanded downtown campus, the light rail system, the expanded Phoenix Convention Center, and the new 1,000-room Sheraton Hotel.

Hotel Monroe is one of three new hotels Grace Communities is planning in Phoenix.

One is on 7 acres that Vento and the Zeleznaks purchased next to the Londen Center office building, at the southwest corner of 44th Street and Camelback Road. It includes about 350,000 square feet of office space, 50 condominiums and a five-story, 150-room hotel. That project is to begin in early 2008.

The third new hotel, with 150 rooms, is part of the Portales luxury residential development that Grace Communities is planning west of Scottsdale Road and Goldwater Boulevard.

[andrewkfromaz]

The Hotel Monroe story is super exciting. It should be super cool when it's open.
I'm wondering about the Central Park East project. There was another project with the same name that had ASU space integrated as a part of the building. I was under the impression that the previous plan fell through. Is this totally different?

[sundevilgrad]

CPE with ASU dorms incorporated into it fell through. That proposal was for something in the 45-50 story level. It's back again, this time with only the office and ground floor retail components at 26 story height. Check out the Phoenix Development thread for more info (it's back a few pages).

[andrewkfromaz]

^ Most enlightening. Thank you.
I really like the architecture of the building. New class A downtown will be a boon to everyone.

[MagnumMike]

The 3 40+ story Copper Pointe Towers that are proposed are good, I'm just wondering about the location of 3rd Ave & Filmore. I have a feeling neighbors will not be very happy with the traffic, unless the developer includes a plan to add more lanes on Filmore, which means they'll have to do a lot of tearing down of old homes in the area.

[sundevilgrad]

The 3 40+ story Copper Pointe Towers that are proposed are good, I'm just wondering about the location of 3rd Ave & Filmore. I have a feeling neighbors will not be very happy with the traffic, unless the developer includes a plan to add more lanes on Filmore, which means they'll have to do a lot of tearing down of old homes in the area.


Ummm, have you ever been over there? Besides the Filmore Lofts on 2nd Ave and Filmore, there isn't much there. There are a few homes north of Filmore going up to Roosevelt, and there's absolutely squat to the south. A lot of the homes north of Filmore are in various stages of re-development, so they don't really have residences, a number of them have been turned into businesses, and almost all of them have a vacant lot or to adjacent to their property. That is the one area that drive me crazy when it comes to historic preservation. If all those old houses remained that would be, by far, one of the coolest neighborhoods in town.

[MagnumMike]

Ummm, have you ever been over there? Besides the Filmore Lofts on 2nd Ave and Filmore, there isn't much there. There are a few homes north of Filmore going up to Roosevelt, and there's absolutely squat to the south. A lot of the homes north of Filmore are in various stages of re-development, so they don't really have residences, a number of them have been turned into businesses, and almost all of them have a vacant lot or to adjacent to their property. That is the one area that drive me crazy when it comes to historic preservation. If all those old houses remained that would be, by far, one of the coolest neighborhoods in town.

I hadn't been down there for a few months, until today and I drove by the site, and yes I see your point SunDevilGrad, there are vacant lots on the southside of Filmore, and there's one house northwest of the proposed site, which has been well-kept. I hope the resident in that house doesn't present any opposition to the project. I'm also sure they can find a way to widen Filmore without affecting the Filmore lofts on 2nd Ave & Filmore, and if they got rid of that old ugly one-story building right across the street from the Circle K on 1st Ave & Filmore, which only has a Bank of America ATM right now, that wouldn't be too much of a loss.

In my opinion, to accomodate the increased traffic from Copper Pointe, Filmore would have to have 2 lanes in each direction from 7th Ave to Central, plus maybe a turn lane.

[MagnumMike]

On the W building, that latest design is ugly, it looks like something out of a 1950's science fiction movie or cartoon. I hope they find a way to go back to the original Bruder design, or come up with a better one.

[MagnumMike]

I want to get a consensus of opinions from posters here; Phoenix hasn't seen the same skyscraper building boom we've seen in other cities like Las Vegas or San Diego. The tallest building in Phoenix, which was originally the 40-story Valley Bank Tower, now Chase Tower, has been that way for over 34 years now and no great effort has been taken to go higher. I've heard several reasons for that and they were:
- The close proximity of downtown to Sky Harbor
- Sprawl and outward expansion because people didn't want to live in the city
- No decent transportation infrastructure into and out of downtown
- Opposition to tall structures
- Office building trends moved them out of downtown and closer to the suburbs

I think all of these may have been factors in keeping upward growth in downtown Phoenix a bit stagnant, but I hope the new light rail system will bring new life to downtown and encourage more developers to build there, rather than have all of these gazillion 3 or 4 story office structures scattered all over the valley.

[MagnumMike]

Here's a couple of pictures from the past :) :cool: :cool:
Valley Bank/Chase Tower under construction 1972
http://www.members.cox.net/mss292/ChaseTower_1972.jpg
Hyatt Regency Hotel under construction 1975
http://www.members.cox.net/mss292/HyattReg_1975.jpg

[vertex]

MM, good points, but if you're really interested in learning more, all of these issues are covered in the Phx development news thread (http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=120676).

[sundevilgrad]

Here’s a rendering of the new ASU Downtown dorms for DT Phoenix. The Phoenix forumers have already seen this on the Phoenix Development thread. ASU DT is a major part of the revitalization effort going on here. These buildings will be at the northern edge of downtown near the AZ Center and new Sheraton hotel that is going up...

http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/8031/downtowndorms1ch3.th.jpg (http://img442.imageshack.us/my.php?image=downtowndorms1ch3.jpg)

[andrewkfromaz]

I want to get a consensus of opinions from posters here; Phoenix hasn't seen the same skyscraper building boom we've seen in other cities like Las Vegas or San Diego. The tallest building in Phoenix, which was originally the 40-story Valley Bank Tower, now Chase Tower, has been that way for over 34 years now and no great effort has been taken to go higher. I've heard several reasons for that and they were:
- Sprawl and outward expansion because people didn't want to live in the city
- Office building trends moved them out of downtown and closer to the suburbs

It's the two I left in there. Sky Harbor isn't really a major factor in downtown Phoenix, the FAA has shown that buildings far taller (700' and up) are permissible in the urban core, the freeway system literally revolves around downtown, I don't know what more transportation infrastructure you need other than light rail. People's mentality has been that downtowns are not places they want to be. This goes for potential residents as well as businesses.
A factor you missed is that the big multinational businesses that tend to build and occupy high-rises are notably absent from Phoenix. Much smaller cities have more Fortune 500-level corporate headquarters, which directly translates into more high-rise commercial buildings, which translate into more interest in living downtown. We'll see what the future brings, but I doubt we'll see a lot of high-rise commercial structures downtown in the coming years. We'll see...

[Don B.]

I revised and updated the first (main) page of this thread. It is still a work in progress.

--don

[HX_Guy]

New condo project in the works downtown...two towers, one at 36 stories and 360' and the other at 23 stories.

http://www.nitnelav.com/JetTower1.jpg

http://www.nitnelav.com/JetTower2.jpg

[atl2phx]

It's the two I left in there. Sky Harbor isn't really a major factor in downtown Phoenix, the FAA has shown that buildings far taller (700' and up) are permissible in the urban core, the freeway system literally revolves around downtown, I don't know what more transportation infrastructure you need other than light rail. People's mentality has been that downtowns are not places they want to be. This goes for potential residents as well as businesses.
A factor you missed is that the big multinational businesses that tend to build and occupy high-rises are notably absent from Phoenix. Much smaller cities have more Fortune 500-level corporate headquarters, which directly translates into more high-rise commercial buildings, which translate into more interest in living downtown. We'll see what the future brings, but I doubt we'll see a lot of high-rise commercial structures downtown in the coming years. We'll see...


hmmm, i've always wondered why the phoenix skyline doesn't match the metro's position as one of the largest and fastest growing in the us.

since i moved here from atlanta, that's always my basis for comparison - interestingly phoenix and atlanta are both characterized by ever-expanding sprawl and a growing suburban landscape know as much for office space and retail as residential. still, atlanta has a decent downtown and a fairly remarkable skyline for it's size. as far as fortune 500 presence, most of atlanta's F500 companies aren't located in highrises (home depot, ups, rubbermaid, cox communications, etc...are all lowrise suburban) even coke's hq is roughly 30 stories and is located in an unremarkable building outside of downtown or midtown.

anyway, not sure what has 'held back' the phoenix skyline. i will say this, of the top 10 cities, phoenix by far has the most opportunity to take off with a few signature towers.

[Don B.]

There are a number of factors. Let me touch on a few of the highlights:

1. Atlanta is much older and was much larger than Phoenix (and still is, today).

1860:

Atlanta: 10,000
Phoenix: zero

In 1900:

Atlanta: 90,000
Phoenix: 5,000

In 1950:

Atlanta: 331,000
Phoenix: 106,000

Back then, Phoenix was nestled between Allentown, PA and Corpus Christi, Texas, in terms of total population. It was essentially a dusty agricultural community in the middle of nowhere, far from the centers of power or industry in the United States. Atlanta was in much bigger city company and was the leading city in the southeast - bigger than anything else at the time. Denver and Dallas were each four times bigger than Phoenix in 1950, San Diego three times bigger and Houston almost six times larger.

2. Phoenix's growth came too late to develop a dense core of pre-war housing. Phoenix's first decade of real substantive growth was in the 1950s, and what were they known for? Yep, cars, highways and suburbia. Inner cities all over America began a long decline and many of the G.I.s coming to Phoenix after WWII were looking to start families and bought single-family homes.

1960:

Atlanta: 487,000
Phoenix: 429,000

As you can see, Phoenix began to sprawl into the desert during this time. Although the city populations were close, the metro populations (using today's definitions) were hugely far apart:

1960 metro populations:

Atlanta: 1.64 million
Phoenix: 678,000

By 1970, Atlanta's sprawl was going full-bore. Phoenix was exploding as well, but Phoenix was working off of a much smaller population base.

1970 metro populations:

Atlanta: 2.3 million
Phoenix: 975,000

It was also in the 1950s and 1960s that large corporations (driving a lot of business, finance and law firms before them) began to coalesce into the larger cities. Atlanta was a logical choice. She had a fairly large population base by 1970, and there were no other major cities nearby to siphon off development. In contrast, Phoenix was a lot smaller, still backwards with no freeways or mass transit. A lot of businesses thus went to Los Angeles or San Diego (and possibly even to Denver, Dallas and Houston) instead of Phoenix.

To use a planetary analogy, Atlanta was like Earth and Phoenix like Mars. Phoenix was too small to hold on to her atmosphere, like Mars, so to speak, and most of it was lost to space. Earth/Atlanta, being bigger, was able to hold on to her atmosphere and attract businesses.

By 1980, the differences were cemented.

1980 metro populations:

Atlanta: 3.2 million
Phoenix: 1.5 million

1990 metro populations:

Atlanta: 4.2 million
Phoenix: 2.3 million

2000 metro populations:

Atlanta: 5.2 million
Phoenix: 3.3 million

2007 metro populations (estimated):

Atlanta: 6.1 million
Phoenix: 4.1 million

As you can see, even today Atlanta is fully half again as large as Phoenix. Phoenix has virtually no major company presence - I think we have three fortune 500 companies, compared to something like 15 or 20 for Atlanta's metro area. And even if those companies don't build high-rises themselves, the activity they attract does. It fills downtown CBD skyscrapers like there is no tomorrow. I think Atlanta has something like three to four times as much office space and workers downtown than Phoenix.

3. Phoenix is more traditional and people and governments here tend to like their buildings (and governments) small. There is a distinct anti-urban, anti-highrise mentality that affects people here. They came here to escape "big city ills" and they don't want to replicate that in the desert. People here like their "views of the mountains" and get cranky when developers start talking about big skyscrapers. As a result, development here tends to be of the lowest common denominator type - low-slung and boring homes, because it's easy to get sprawl approved here. Don't build tall - that's been the mantra of Arizona development for almost 50 years. Don't rock the boat, build safe and low-density stuff.

Phoenix is slowly changing but it takes time, much like weaning a crack addict off the juice. Atlanta is more progressive and less conservative. Developers there take risks and getting tall projects approved appears to be much easier, at least based on their respective skylines.

4. Phoenix does have some height limitations because of the airport. We will never have 1,000 foot towers (unlike Atlanta) because Sky Harbor is too close to downtown. We could have taller towers further north but those are adjacent to residential neighborhoods with lots of NIMBYs. They get bent over 20-30 story projects "killing their views," so you can imagine the kind of shitstorm that erupts if someone starts talking about 40 and 50 story projects. And frankly, there's little demand for high-rises here.

5. Most of the population that filled Phoenix during her early development years came from the upper midwest - small towns and cities with little urban mindset. People don't typically move to Phoenix and live in high-rises. They want horses on a 40-acre parcel of desert, or at least a private pool to thrash around in.

I guess this all makes Phoenix unique amongst large American cities - the shortest skyline of all. Knowing these historical factors might help explain why Phoenix is they way it is today.

--don

[Don B.]

Bump/test, since my last post didn't move this thread up, and I see more responses after mine not showing.

--don

[sundevilgrad]

Here's a link to the Phoenix Development thread. This page has some great pics of all the activity DT. 5 tower cranes!

http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=120676&page=87

Projects underway:
44 Monroe (34-story condo tower)
Sheraton Hotel (32?-story Hotel)
ASU Dorms (2 13-story student living buildings)
ASU Cronkite School of Journalism (6-story 100+ ft)
Alta Phoenix (5 or 6 building up to 8? stories)
Summit at Copper Square (22-story condo tower)
Phoenix Convention Center
Light Rail Construction (almost finished DT)

PHX forumers, please correct any thing I listed incorrectly.

[HX_Guy]

Here's a photoshopped image showing what Phoenix might look like toward the end of 2009, if both Central Park East and CityScape join 44 Monroe and the Sheraton hotel which are both under construction now...

http://www.nitnelav.com/DTBeforeAfter/6.jpg
http://www.nitnelav.com/DTBeforeAfter/3.jpg

[Don B.]

Twin 45-story residential project proposed by SW Development Group LLC. The project will be located Between Central and First Streets on Willetta. That is right between the Library and the Phoenix Art Museum (in the parking lot just to the south of the CVS). The Blue Fin will stay but the other building will be demolished.

Thanks to Archdevil for the find, and some of the text above. :)

Rendering:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v22/don85259/New%20Phoenix%20projects/f_towersm_3afe82f.jpg

Tempe has a lot of stuff in the pipeline:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v22/don85259/New%20Phoenix%20projects/IMG_1740copy.jpg

--don

[Philly-Drew]

I would like to see some more high rise development in Phoenix. I think that the mentality that some people have who would like to keep the skyline low sucks. Philadelphia had that same mentality for over 300 years!
Don B. That is a cool comparison between Atlanta and Phoenix. I’d be really interested to see those same stats but instead of comparing the metro areas compare both the city proper population and the city proper square mileage.

[Don B.]

I revised the Tempe skyscrapers list. Pretty amazing for a suburb of only 170,000 people:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v22/don85259/Tempe%20Photos/TempeProjectsList.jpg

--don

[PhxPavilion]

Twin 45-story residential project proposed by SW Development Group LLC. The project will be located Between Central and First Streets on Willetta. That is right between the Library and the Phoenix Art Museum (in the parking lot just to the south of the CVS). The Blue Fin will stay but the other building will be demolished.

Thanks to Archdevil for the find, and some of the text above. :)

--don

One can only hope. They're pretty nice looking as well.

[sundevilgrad]

It doesn't look like any of the Phoenix forumers posted here about this, so I guess I will...

The City Scape project (4 towers, $900 million investement privately/publicly funded) has announced that Phase I, scheduled to breakground in a few months, will include a new tallest for Phoenix. The tower will be 525 ft, which is 40+ ft taller than the current tallest. Here's a low-resolution rendering of the project:
http://www.nitnelav.com/CityScapeConstruction/CityScapeNewRender.jpg

It will be built in the middle of DT, just north of the US Airways Center and provide DT with some much needed density and a new tallest!

P.S. - for more info, see the CityScape thread:
http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=117961&page=26

[Don B.]

Three 32-story, 400-foot skyscrapers proposed as part of One Phoenix:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v22/don85259/New%20Phoenix%20projects/OnePhoenix.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v22/don85259/New%20Phoenix%20projects/OnePhoenix2.jpg

Location: NW Corner of McDowell and Central Avenue, between downtown and uptown/midtown Phoenix skylines (will help fill in the gap nicely). :)

--don

[FireMedic]

They look awesome, I hope they really happen :)

[Dale]

Very nice. Do I see aluminum ?

[Don B.]

^ I'm not sure.

Their website said 32 stories, but I count 42 stories, which makes more sense for a 400' building. ???

We know 400' is correct because that is the zoning height they are seeking.

--don

[HX_Guy]

What is their website?

www.one-phoenix.com doesn't have any information up, just says that an announcement will be made Fall 2007.

[Don B.]

Regards Omega:

He's planning 34 stories, and hopes to break ground in 2008.

--don

[Azndragon837]

WOW Don, good find. Those towers will definately fill that large, angry gap between Downtown and Midtown! Those towers look awesome for being tall, thin rectangles!

-Andrew

[Azndragon837]

For those outsiders not familiar with Phoenix's famous skyline gap: Phoenix's skyline actually stretches out for several miles north and south (up to 5 miles) along it's main drag, Central Avenue.

Back in the 1960s, the city decided to zone that northern stretch of Central Avenue for high-rises. The result is a weird double skyline, one clustering around Downtown, and one Midtown. If Phoenix had not proceeded with the biggest planning mistake in its history, we would have a skyline almost similar to Portland's or even Vancouver's (well, a bit smaller than Vancouver's huge skyline).

The One Phoenix project will locate itself on a large parcel of land at the NWC of Central Avenue and McDowell Road, next to a future light rail station, and across the street from the Phoenix Art Museum. McDowell and Central is sort of the epicenter of the gap between Downtown and Midtown, and will fill in and top the gap off with a lovely 400 footer.

Don, if you have any images or maps to show...please do, because I don't have any on file right now.

-Andrew

[Don B.]

Renderings courtesy Callison Architects, Seattle, WA

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v22/don85259/New%20Phoenix%20projects/PDCityScape3.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v22/don85259/New%20Phoenix%20projects/PDCityScape1.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v22/don85259/New%20Phoenix%20projects/PDCityScape2.jpg

Older rendering, but shows more of the total scope:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v22/don85259/New%20Phoenix%20projects/Cityscape.jpg

WHAT: Cityscape (mixed-use project), which at build-out is planned to consist of four towers:

Tower 1: 388' and 31 stories
Tower 2: 400' and 32 stories
Tower 3: 450' and 40 stories
Tower 4: 525' and 44 stories

http://www.downtownphxrising.org/project_vision.asp

FEATURES: 800,000 square feet of office space, 1,200 residential units; restaurants, grocery stores, and retail space. Total footage: 2.5 million square feet.

WHERE: Downtown Phoenix, covering three city blocks in the heart of the city. The boundaries are: 1st Avenue to the west, 2nd Street to the east, Washington Street to the north, and Jefferson Street to the south. The project is adjacent to the US Airways Center and within two blocks of Chase Field. The Light Rail Transit System (LRT) runs on three sides of the project with two nearby rail stations providing convenient access.

TOTAL INVESTMENT: About $1 billion USD.

WHO: CityScape involves the financial strength and entrepreneurial vision of several local and national development partners, all commited to downtown Phoenix.

RED Development, LLC - Shopping center development, multi-use projects and master-planned communities; Scottsdale, Arizona/Kansas City, Missouri

CDK Partners, LLC - Creates, develops, leases, owns and manages innovative mixed-use commercial, residential and hospitality related urban spaces.

Barron Collier Companies - Real estate development, agriculture and minerals; Naples, Florida/Phoenix, Arizona

Novare Group - High-rise real estate development including condominiums and office; Atlanta, Georgia

Callison Architects - Commercial and mixed-use project design; Seattle, Washington

MAJOR RETAILERS: A.J.'s Fine Foods will open a grocery store in the project, and P.F. Chang's will open a restaurant as well.

WHEN: Breaking ground now (site prep underway), substantive ground-breaking in a few months (late fall 2007) with first phase opening in 2009, completion slated for 2011 to 2012.

APPROVAL: Formal Phoenix City Council approval came on 10-5-06:

http://www.azcentral.com/specials/special48/articles/1005cityscapevote1005.html

Phoenix City Council members on Wednesday approved a blockbuster deal that clears the way for the single largest private investment project ever in the downtown area. The 2.5 million-square-foot mixed-use venture, known as CityScape, is estimated to cost as much as $900 million, and could open in early 2009.

"Today is a really huge day for our downtown's development," Councilwoman Peggy Bilsten said shortly before the council's vote. "(This project) complements everything we've done so far."

Phoenix officials believe CityScape is the last remaining piece in their ongoing effort to rebuild the city's core. It will bring more residents, housing and office space to the area, plus a much-anticipated AJ's Fine Foods, the first downtown grocery store in nearly 25 years.

The project had initially raised the ire of many community groups and activists after they learned that plans called for it to be built, in part, on downtown's only real open space, Patriots Square Park. But under the agreement approved Wednesday, the project's developers and the city will have to work with the public to redesign the park. Phoenix will also retain ownership of the open space.

That news came as a relief to many residents and groups, who are asking that the developers abide by design recommendations recently set forth by the city's Parks and Recreation Board. That panel has stated that the park contain at least 2 contiguous acres of space, among other things.

Attracting people

"The park redevelopment process must begin with a clean piece of paper and not a series of artists' concepts rendered without citizens' input," said Steve Weiss, spokesman for the Downtown Voices Coalition, a community group. Mike Ebert, managing partner for RED Development, which is building the project, said he is looking forward to working with the parks board.

"This will be a place that attracts people," Ebert said. "Not just for staged events, but for the unstaged events that happen in every day life."

Plans call for CityScape to include 250,000 square feet of retail and restaurant space, about 1,260 residential units, a boutique hotel, two office towers, and 3,000 parking spaces. Phoenix will invest financially in the project, purchasing an underground parking structure and paying for repairs on an existing parking garage at a cost of $96.5 million. In addition, the city will waive the property taxes on the development's key components for eight years, a financial incentive that is worth at least $26 million, according to official estimates. But the project's developers will have to meet a host of requirements to receive the city money, including adhering to the parks board design guidelines for Patriots Square Park and providing a $13 million letter of credit to cover any revenue shortfalls during the first few years the project is open.

Ebert said he is looking forward to getting started. "It's been a challenge to get here today, but you can view challenges as roadblocks, or they can be viewed as an opportunity to showcase your creativity," he said.

Wednesday's vote came after nearly 90 minutes of discussion, most of it in favor of the project. But not everyone was happy with what he or she saw.

'Downtown for everyone'

C.R. Vavrek, who lives in downtown Phoenix, said he was concerned because many area residents can't afford to shop at high-end retailers. "I know a lot of people who live downtown, but we're low income," he said. "I'm not sure we can afford to shop at AJ's." I was wondering if there is going to be any low-income sales or medium-income sales."

Mayor Phil Gordon assured Vavrek and others that the development would accommodate all residents, not just the wealthy or business elite. "This is a downtown for everyone, and we're going to make it work for everyone," he said.

:banana:

--don