[TOBoy]

According to Ed at UT regarding the Bay-Adelaide Centre:

"Street entrance for parking garage through the elevator core is now fenced off. Traffic signs for the closure of Adelaide are now onsite. And the Ellis Don guy I ran to on the street tonight said demolition has begun!"

[neilioo]

ok im confused now, because the BCE place 3 has been on hold but has recently been put back into the diagram as proposed...am i missing something here. Has there been an annoucement for it or any news?
Im getting kind of excited.
Anyone care to elaborate on this?

[BruceH]

Under construction and likely to begin construction in the next 5 to 6 months or less:


Bay-Adelaide West Tower 715 50 2009 Construction Soon Office June-06
Ritz Carlton Hotel & Residences 684 53 2009 Construction Soon Hotel/Residential Jul-06
RBC Centre 610 43 2009 Construction Soon Office Jul-06
Richmond Adelaide Centre II 595 41 2009 Construction Soon Office Summer 06'
MLSE South Tower 558 53 2008 Construction Soon Residential Fall 06'
MLSE North Tower 529 49 2008 Construction Soon Residential Fall 06'
Quantum 2 North Tower 525 52 2008 Under Construction Residential
College Park Tower I 505 52 2006 Under Construction Residential
West ONE 484 49 2006 Under Construction Residential
Spire 476 45 2006 Under Construction Residential
Montage 471 47 2007 Under Construction Residential
Murano Tower I 459 41 2007 Under Construction Residential
College Park Tower II 454 45 2007 Under Construction Residential
The Met 431 43 2006 Under Construction Residential
Pinnacle Centre Building A 415 40 2006 Under Construction Residential
N 410 42 2007 Under Construction Residential
18 Yonge 406 39 2006 Under Construction Residential


How Come One St Thomas is left off the list?

[Maldive]

Bay Adelaide rendering from Ellis Don. Very RBC/Ritz.

http://www.upside-down.ca/sdphotos/bayadelaide1.jpg

[Tony]

^ wow.. it suddenly doesn't look that bland when it's rendered. Well, at least less bland. But I like it!

[Tony]

ok im confused now, because the BCE place 3 has been on hold but has recently been put back into the diagram as proposed...am i missing something here. Has there been an annoucement for it or any news?
Im getting kind of excited.
Anyone care to elaborate on this?

I'm not sure, Goodlookin' changed the status.

[icescraper]

Bay/Adelaide looks a whole lot better. Now where have I seen these architectural atributes before? Possitive because I would hate to have a major development in the city that I couldn't support.- ice

[WhipperSnapper]

Nothing new with BCE3

just reversing a mistake I made when updating the database

(although some of its foundations are in place, it never actually broke ground or had construction cease. And, eventhough 'unbuilt' would be more appropriate, I still have faith)

Far too early to change the status of Bay Adelaide to construction as well but 14 years of passing the stump pretty much maxed out my patience


and that, my friends, is an inside look of the inner workings of goodlookin's mind (minus the T&A)

[WhipperSnapper]

She could turn out a beaut depending on the curtain wall

[neilioo]

^ wow.. it suddenly doesn't look that bland when it's rendered. Well, at least less bland. But I like it!

its beautifull, i love it. But aaarrrrggghhh!!! I just altered the diagram to make it more realistic yesterday, now im going to have to alter it agian lol. I think the top and right side will have to be changed to look more like the rendering. And as for the over all look, i might have to get rid of some "lines" and smooth out the outer surface more.
Maybe i dont need to do all that much..i dunno, no sense in changing the diagram 1 billion times because we wont know what its truley going to look like until its built.

And yes it looks very much like the RBC

[neilioo]

Nothing new with BCE3

just reversing a mistake I made when updating the database

(although some of its foundations are in place, it never actually broke ground or had construction cease. And, eventhough 'unbuilt' would be more appropriate, I still have faith)

Far too early to change the status of Bay Adelaide to construction as well but 14 years of passing the stump pretty much maxed out my patience


and that, my friends, is an inside look of the inner workings of goodlookin's mind (minus the T&A)

lol, i see, i can agree with that, i think everybody's patience is wearing thin, so many tall towers proposed and not one is offiicially U/C yet!

[Jared]

I wish they had gone with the previous design, with the setbacks, it was much more interesting. Taller too...

[caltrane74]

Im so excited. BA should start construction any day now. - And..im real giddy about College Park 200 meters wow.

[sask1982]

It looks like a combination b/t the new WTC and new NY Times Tower....very sharp!

[TOBoy]

Walked by the BA Site and they have closed off the north lane on adelaide street (South side of the building site) and closed off the south lane of temperance (North side of the building site). Concrete barriers and fences are up and ellis don was hoisting its sign on the fence. They also closed off the bay adelaide stump (elevator core) and have what looks like the beginning of demolition equipment.

[neilioo]

Im so excited. BA should start construction any day now. - And..im real giddy about College Park 200 meters wow.

200m? what are you talking about?
Its 196m.

[vegeta_skyline]

Unbelievable...
Ok, all that glass is nice, but they turned the BA center into a box. :gaah:
I was hoping for more then just another glass box in the skyline.

[cityguy]

I'm not a fan of BA centre,but it's good times for all the projects underway or proposed in Toronto.

[DIESELPOLO]

the historic facade they're leaving on that Bay adelaide building looks out of place, awkward, and unnecessary. a facadectomy if i've ever seen one. yes, the tower is sleek tho. but fix that bottom.

[Wooster]

I kind of liked the previous proposal for BA more. Pretty sleek, but a little bland architecturally.

[DZ2006]

It's not such a concern how ugly or beautiful the Bay-Adelaide centre may seem to you, because within 3 years it will be dwarfed by something a little taller and something which will even be visible from that spot way up on Highway 400 north of King Road (along with CN Tower and BMO building) ... that's right, Trump Tower.

[Jared]

It's not such a concern how ugly or beautiful the Bay-Adelaide centre may seem to you, because within 3 years it will be dwarfed by something a little taller and something which will even be visible from that spot way up on Highway 400 north of King Road (along with CN Tower and BMO building) ... that's right, Trump Tower.

Until I see shovels in the ground, I remain skeptical about it. From what I've heard, sales aren't doing so well.

[neilioo]

Until I see shovels in the ground, I remain skeptical about it. From what I've heard, sales aren't doing so well.

there is nothig to be skeptical about..its nicely over 70% sold...if they were ever planning on backing out do to financial interests then they would have done it already. Sales might not be doing well..but the fact that there are still sales with the tower this much sold pretty much gaurentees it will go up...the question is when.

[Jared]

Whats the source for the 70% figure? Is it ALL units, or just 70% of the one type that were selling better.

I'm just a little skeptical, I've been on this forum a long time, and I remember when this tower was schedueled to start Fall 2004. :haha:

[neilioo]

Whats the source for the 70% figure? Is it ALL units, or just 70% of the one type that were selling better.

I'm just a little skeptical, I've been on this forum a long time, and I remember when this tower was schedueled to start Fall 2004. :haha:

It might have even been more then 70%, i cant remember exactly. Offcourse its going to take along time..Canada's tallest tower with all really expensive suits and hotel rooms..its not like hundreds of people are going to flock to it over night. If you go to the Trump Tower updates (sticky) on www.skyscrapercity.com there should be all the info available on the tower. Ill go looking through it when i get more time and see if i cant find the sales quote.

Also ive looked at your diagram, and while i cant say your Trump rendering is as good as the one being used, i can say that its height looks more realistic, like its "roof" is actually at 301m, the current trump rendering makes it look like its 298...and it is noticable unfortunetly.

[TOBoy]

Honestly, with the Ritz having started sales, many of those buyers who may have chosen Trump, might have chosen the Ritz instead. The Ritz Sales were doing very well, and I think because of the location. Trump is way overpriced in an average location. He should be lowering prices not raising them.

Last I heard sales were at about 60%, but they were increasing the number of the hotel/condo units as most of the big multi-million condo suites were not selling.

This was from late last year:

Condo: 200/286 units = 70%
Hotel/condo: 52/147 units = 35%

Total = 58%

Keep in mind these are at least 8 months old.

[neilioo]

Honestly, with the Ritz having started sales, many of those buyers who may have chosen Trump, might have chosen the Ritz instead. The Ritz Sales were doing very well, and I think because of the location. Trump is way overpriced in an average location. He should be lowering prices not raising them.

Last I heard sales were at about 60%, but they were increasing the number of the hotel/condo units as most of the big multi-million condo suites were not selling.

This was from late last year:

Condo: 200/286 units = 70%
Hotel/condo: 52/147 units = 35%

Total = 58%

Keep in mind these are at least 8 months old.

8 months old? yikes, i think ill go looking for those SSC stats:)

[Jared]

Do you know what percent of total revenue that is?

After all, it's the $$$ that counts, and selling most of your cheap units but not too many of the expensive ones doesn't amount to as much money as one might assume looking at unit totals.

The people in charge of TTT better get their asses in gear though, before more people come along and siphon potential buyers (Ritz-Carlton, Shangri-La already have, maybe Sapphire will if Harry ever gets his act together?). I have a feeling that once they get shovels in the ground, sales will pick up.

[neilioo]

Do you know what percent of total revenue that is?

After all, it's the $$$ that counts, and selling most of your cheap units but not too many of the expensive ones doesn't amount to as much money as one might assume looking at unit totals.

The people in charge of TTT better get their asses in gear though, before more people come along and siphon potential buyers (Ritz-Carlton, Shangri-La already have, maybe Sapphire will if Harry ever gets his act together?). I have a feeling that once they get shovels in the ground, sales will pick up.

Noop, i have not seen any stats on that unfortunelty, buti would agree with you that once the tower starts construction people may not be so reluctant to buy. Ritz and Shangri-la..yes, but I doubte Sapphire will siphon any buyers because it targets a more middle class group of people who dont have $500,000 or $1.5 million just lying around.

[Jared]

Hmm, maybe not Sapphire, but the 4 Seasons might.

Besides, I'll be surprised if Sapphire starts construction before 2008.

[neilioo]

Hmm, maybe not Sapphire, but the 4 Seasons might.

Besides, I'll be surprised if Sapphire starts construction before 2008.

i never thought of that one, it might, but it to is pretty "upper class". I think the new ROCP 3 will, especially since its around the same height as Four Seasons (196m)
Ill be suprised if Sapphire ever starts construction lol.
Well maybe not, i have faith in Stinson, but if it start, ill be one of the happier persons on Earth.

[neilioo]

Hey guys, i made a new render for the BA Tower, but im going to post it here first before submitting it to the diagrams because i dont know if its 100% accurate. I based it on the latest BA rendering. Any input or constructive critisism would be more then welcome.

Original
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b224/neiliohep/BAWestTowerFinal2.gif

New one
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b224/neiliohep/BA2copy.gif

[Jared]

Much better. My only suggestions would be:

1) The heritage facade "sticks out" from the rest of the building a bit, so if you're doing a corner drawing, you should show this.

2) Try to improve the lobby area a little. If I'm not mistaken, the lobby is set back a little from the rest of the building.

Other than that, it looks a lot better.

[neilioo]

Much better. My only suggestions would be:

1) The heritage facade "sticks out" from the rest of the building a bit, so if you're doing a corner drawing, you should show this.

2) Try to improve the lobby area a little. If I'm not mistaken, the lobby is set back a little from the rest of the building.

Other than that, it looks a lot better.

Thanx Jared, i totaly forgot to put the Lobby in!
Ill post the edited version when im done.

[TOBoy]

Jared: They keep advertising that TTT is over $200 million sold, but who knows how accurate that is.

[neilioo]

old new one lol
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b224/neiliohep/BA2copy.gif

Edited one
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b224/neiliohep/BA2copy-1.gif

i submitted it..but i think it was rejected and i dont see why...its much more accurate then the last one, the roof and roof element heights are correct, the background is transparent.....

[Jared]

LMich seems to thinks you were copying from a photo, but I dont think so. If you didn't, PM him and tell him you didn't, then add it again.

One final suggestion: tone down the clouds a little bit, the glass looks a little TOO reflective, which might also cause some problems, we have rejective stuff in the past if there were too many cloud effects.

[neilioo]

LMich seems to thinks you were copying from a photo, but I dont think so. If you didn't, PM him and tell him you didn't, then add it again.

One final suggestion: tone down the clouds a little bit, the glass looks a little TOO reflective, which might also cause some problems, we have rejective stuff in the past if there were too many cloud effects.

Copying from a photo?? the tower isnt even built how could i be copying from a photo lmao?

Anyway, ill get right on that.

I suppose i should feel complimented actually, if he thinks i took it from a real photograph of a glass skinned skyscraper then it cant be a bad rendering lol!

[bhbhbh]

does anyone know what is going on with this project?

http://www.emporis.com/en/wm/bu/?id=171304

[Tony]

umm. Dead?

[WhipperSnapper]

"does anyone know what is going on with this project?"

Leasing

[caltrane74]

Bay Adelaide is creeping closer to construction. - workers and equipment all over the site today.

The only thing I dont know is whether they are there solely for purpose of bringing down the stump.

Or...something more grand.

[neilioo]

Bay Adelaide is creeping closer to construction. - workers and equipment all over the site today.

The only thing I dont know is whether they are there solely for purpose of bringing down the stump.

Or...something more grand.

Havr they actually started demolition of the stump yet? Or are they still preparing to do so?

[caltrane74]

looks like site prep to me. But hey ....that place is buzzing like a mofo.

[neilioo]

looks like site prep to me. But hey ....that place is buzzing like a mofo.

well, atleast something is happening!! Any news on RAC3?

[caltrane74]

Not that I know of. Seems to be just a rumour. I havent heard anything concrete or seen anything to validate.

[neilioo]

Not that I know of. Seems to be just a rumour. I havent heard anything concrete or seen anything to validate.

How many days exactly are there untill RBC and Ritz start construction?
I know its in your signature but its said "45 days" for the last few days..i think. :)

[DZ2006]

I have it from a pretty good source (president of a medium-size development company with 4 projects ongoing in Toronto) that the Trump tower will be a no-go. Cancellation will be announced by the end of the year.

[WhipperSnapper]

Anyone outside of the senior levels of the Trump development group is most likely privy only to partial facts, rumours, and speculation

(I've heard as low as 35% sold with an expected cancellation this fall to - a not as frequent - over 70% with construction around the corner from several well connected industry sources)

[neilioo]

Anyone outside of the senior levels of the Trump development group is most likely privy only to rumour and speculation

Agreed, I would not put any stock in something that is little more then a rumour, just because he is the pres of some mid size company does not make a difference to me. If they were going to cancel, they would probably announce it now because the longer they go after deciding to cancel the more money and time they waist for themselves and others who want to buy in the Trump tower.

[Dale]

Why the hell would they announce cancellation 'by the end of the year' if they already knew it was a 'no-go' now anyway ?

[caltrane74]

How many days exactly are there untill RBC and Ritz start construction?
I know its in your signature but its said "45 days" for the last few days..i think. :)


Ritz/ RBC should start construction this month. - so less than 30 days to go now. When i changed my sig - constructed was supposed to have started in June.- it got pushed back to july for some reason.

__________________________________________________

As for Bay Adelaide I walked by the site over the weekend. A lot of demolished concrete all over the place. But none of the destruction touched the stump. Looks like just the mini walls bit the dust over the weekend. Still the Murray Demolition equipment is on site ready to destroy the stump.

I think I need to change my sig to - stump demolition underway. :banana:

[caltrane74]

Why the hell would they announce cancellation 'by the end of the year' if they already knew it was a 'no-go' now anyway ?

excellent point my friend.

I do not believe this tortured building will die a slow death. it will be quick or it wont happen at all.

In fact I think this building for sure will go up. I mean its a hotel right? ..no a condo primarly? right? - Do you need to have 70% sales to go ahead with a condo hotel? - you can go with less right. - billionaire canadian investor is main backer. What a great way to get your name out there. Especially when your wealth is increasing by leaps and bounds every year.

[TOBoy]

The project would not get cancelled with over $200 million worth of suites sold. They would at the very least reduce the size of the building then to throw out hundreds of millions of dollars in sales and show that Ritz is a more attractive prject and that Trump cant compete with them. This is not your typical project.

[Tony]

More CITYPLACE Development on Fort York Boulevard:
4 A Spadina Ave, 422,450,476 Fort York Boulevard

- 3 Development Blocks are identified: Block 29, Block 26W and Block 26E

- Block 26E will be "Luna" (http://www.cityplace.ca/luna/index.asp)

3 18 Storey Towers (1 of which is part of Luna)
2 36 Storey Towers
1 38 Storey Tower (115 m) (Luna)

http://www.toronto.ca/legdocs/2006/agendas/committees/te/te060711/it002.pdf

Also mentioned in the report is that Toronto Community Housing Corp (TCHC) has two housing project towers in the area, one at 20 storeys (62m) and another at 30 storeys (92m).

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Residences of Maple Leaf Square
15 York St.

54 Storey Condo (174 m)
50 Storey Condo
& 9 Storey Podium with retail, office, daycare & hotel

http://www.toronto.ca/legdocs/2006/agendas/committees/te/te060711/it005.pdf

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
201 Carlaw Ave.

9 Storey development in the Danforth area (32.36m)

http://www.toronto.ca/legdocs/2006/agendas/committees/te/te060711/it006.pdf

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
45 Lisgar St. - to be Refused

9 Storey Residential
18 Storey Residential

http://www.toronto.ca/legdocs/2006/agendas/committees/te/te060711/it009.pdf

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
150 Sudbury St.

13 Storey Condo (36m)

http://www.toronto.ca/legdocs/2006/agendas/committees/te/te060711/it010.pdf

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
West Don Lands

To remove Holding Symbol to allow construction of flood protection berm. (Expect a proposal soon)

http://www.toronto.ca/legdocs/2006/agendas/committees/te/te060711/it012.pdf

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
60 Murray St.

12 Storey HOSPITAL ADDITION - Mount Sinai Hospital (64.31 m)

http://www.toronto.ca/legdocs/2006/agendas/committees/te/te060711/it028.pdf

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
582 Sherbourne St.

32 Storey Condo (100.4 m)

http://www.toronto.ca/legdocs/2006/agendas/committees/te/te060711/it029.pdf

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
380 Church St.

Construction is to begin on a 12-storey condo. Temporary road occupation for construction staging requested.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
1053 & 1061 The Queensway

Big Mixed-Use development including a Sobeys & 5 Highrises:

13 Storey
24 Storey
TWO 23 Storey condos
27 Storey

http://www.toronto.ca/legdocs/2006/agendas/committees/et/et060711/it010.pdf

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
3406-3434 Weston Rd

10 Storey residential (44.3 m)

http://www.toronto.ca/legdocs/2006/agendas/committees/et/et060711/it041.pdf

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
1100 Eglinton Ave. E.

22 Storey Hotel-> Senior Residence Conversion
(former Inn on the Park)

12 Storey Hotel component to be demo'd, 22 Storey Tower to be converted.

http://www.toronto.ca/legdocs/2006/agendas/committees/ny/ny060711/it025.pdf

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Gerrard St. E.

TWO 24 Storey (79.75 m) Condo slabs for Scarborough FUGLY.

http://www.toronto.ca/legdocs/2006/agendas/committees/sc/sc060711/it016.pdf

[element103]

I dont know if anyone has posted this yet, but ROCP III has been revised again. Instead of the 60 and 20 storey tower, it will now be one 75 storey tower at the corner of Yonge and Gerrard. It looks breathtaking from the renderings/plans I've looked at.

[WhipperSnapper]

^I can't believe it - great news - have to check it out


Great summary Tony

[TOBoy]

Hey just a side note. Page 28 of the MLSE report shows the mechanical for the MLSE Condos as 610 ft. (186 metres) for the 54 floor tower and 571 ft.(174 metres) for the 50 floor tower.

Element: I relly hope you are serious. That would be fantastic if it does happen :)

[neilioo]

I dont know if anyone has posted this yet, but ROCP III has been revised again. Instead of the 60 and 20 storey tower, it will now be one 75 storey tower at the corner of Yonge and Gerrard. It looks breathtaking from the renderings/plans I've looked at.

you've seen renderings?!! can we see can we can we can we pleeeeaaaassee:) :) :)

Anyway, this is great news, at the same floor height 75 stories would put it at around 245.5m meaning if built now it would be the 3rd tallerst in toronto! (roof height)

[neilioo]

Hey Tony, ive noticed that in the diagrams there is only one maple leaf square tower listed, so im assuming both of them will be in one diagram as one building?
Im asking because i figure its about time to do a rendering for them (I started awhile ago but got sidetracked)

[element103]

I'm not kidding. I'll see if I have it lying around on my desk at work or not today and snap a couple shots -- I might have already sent it off to another department, so if I did that, I won't see it again for a few weeks. I'll check it out

[WHISTLERINMUSKOKA]

Great, I was waiting for a purely residential building to break a new height barrier, if they can do it all the time in Chicago then why can't we as well. I look forward to the renderings element.

[Tony]

Hey Tony, ive noticed that in the diagrams there is only one maple leaf square tower listed, so im assuming both of them will be in one diagram as one building?
Im asking because i figure its about time to do a rendering for them (I started awhile ago but got sidetracked)

no, no. Each tower has it's own database entry. Do a search or click on the proposed buildings link.

Element! Don't be a tease, SHOW US THE MONEY!

[neilioo]

I'm not kidding. I'll see if I have it lying around on my desk at work or not today and snap a couple shots -- I might have already sent it off to another department, so if I did that, I won't see it again for a few weeks. I'll check it out

you do realise that you are like..torturing us!!! Atleast give us an idea of what it looks like! lol

[Maldive]

The height is 227 metres and the plans can be reviewed at City Hall only.

[WhipperSnapper]

"no, no. Each tower has it's own database entry."

actually, I do believe Jared combined the two entries

[element103]

*sigh* sorry guys, I had already sent it off to another department for their review. It's a very sleek tower, IIRC, with a lot more glass than ROCP I and II. It's got a sweeping roof element and definitely will make its mark on the skyline. I'll keep hunting for it at work tomorrow.. maybe try to recall it. ;)

[neilioo]

"no, no. Each tower has it's own database entry."

actually, I do believe Jared combined the two entries

i think your right, because i cant find the smaller tower anywhere, so i guess im drawing the diagram with both buildings (kind of like the petronas towers), I like it better that way anyway for some reason.

[TOBoy]

Its better to have them as seperate entries as it makes our numbers look larger, but I guess that is kind of pointless.

Element: A forumer on UT also made the same claim that you had confirming the 75 floor height. I knew all along ;)

[neilioo]

Its better to have them as seperate entries as it makes our numbers look larger, but I guess that is kind of pointless.

Element: A forumer on UT also made the same claim that you had confirming the 75 floor height. I knew all along ;)

Yeah, pointless seeing as its only a one building difference..not really going to make a difference in the overall numbers.

[Jared]

I combined Maple Leaf Square into a single building. I figure it would look better than breaking up the podium. Also, it allows us to add data such as unit count, square footage etc. which can only be found for the project as a whole. There are plenty of examples of this sort of thing already in the database, i.e.:

http://skyscraperpage.com/cities/?buildingID=1319





Here is the new MLS btw:

http://skyscraperpage.com/cities/?buildingID=41660


I've also updated RoCP3 to include the new height (sorry Neilioo, i had to take your drawing out, sincec it isn't the right height anymore)

[WhipperSnapper]

It is undeniably two towers. I do realize that the diagrams are somewhat the main focus of the database and it being easier to draw/picture the whole complex but why not then draw two different perspectives of the complex for each entry or highlight the specific tower by drawing the rest in a grey scale.


Also, it allows us to add data such as unit count, square footage etc. which can only be found for the project as a whole.

however, it has the opposite affect on building identifiers (addresses) and other status such as year built, status

and, unit counts for the individual towers are easy to come by considering they were sold as separate phases



I need clarification

Thanks to our great planning and my laziness to investigate further, we have many heights for the new developments with some including mechanical penthouses while others do not. I've been differentiating them by putting those without the mechanical under 'roof height' and those with mechanical under 'spire height' although I'm suspicious the database's preference maybe 'top floor' and 'roof'

[neilioo]

I combined Maple Leaf Square into a single building. I figure it would look better than breaking up the podium. Also, it allows us to add data such as unit count, square footage etc. which can only be found for the project as a whole. There are plenty of examples of this sort of thing already in the database, i.e.:

http://skyscraperpage.com/cities/?buildingID=1319





Here is the new MLS btw:

http://skyscraperpage.com/cities/?buildingID=41660


I've also updated RoCP3 to include the new height (sorry Neilioo, i had to take your drawing out, sincec it isn't the right height anymore)


Hey no problem, i didnt like that drawing anyway!:tup: Ill gladly do a MUCH better one for the next tower.

And i finaly finished my MLS diagram (with height increase included)
And ive seen so many damn differently coloured renders of the building that i decided to go with something lighter and non tacky unitll we know for sure what the coliur scheme will look like.
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b224/neiliohep/MLSEfinalcopy.gif

[Tony]

^ Neilioo, that might be your best diagram so far!! Just add a sutble blue shading to the glass.

[Jared]

It is undeniably two towers. I do realize that the diagrams are somewhat the main focus of the database and it being easier to draw/picture the whole complex but why not then draw two different perspectives of the complex for each entry or highlight the specific tower by drawing the rest in a grey scale.




however, it has the opposite affect on building identifiers (addresses) and other status such as year built, status

and, unit counts for the individual towers are easy to come by considering they were sold as separate phases



I need clarification

Thanks to our great planning and my laziness to investigate further, we have many heights for the new developments with some including mechanical penthouses while others do not. I've been differentiating them by putting those without the mechanical under 'roof height' and those with mechanical under 'spire height' although I'm suspicious the database's preference maybe 'top floor' and 'roof'


I tend to include them as one. All the info for the tallest tower is entered in the proper slots, and then any extra stuff I just add into the description. As for the two diagrams from different perspectives idea, I think it's been mentioned before, but would end up misleading people. Take a look at this, for example:

http://skyscraperpage.com/cities/?buildingID=6

Even if the taller tower was grey, people would still focus on it, even if this is meant to be a drawing of the shorter tower.



Re height entry:

put mechanical under roof, and then add a comment saying "mechanical penthouse".

add a custom height called "main roof" and add that height there. Spires are for those pointy sticks.

[WhipperSnapper]

Re height entry:

put mechanical under roof, and then add a comment saying "mechanical penthouse".

add a custom height called "main roof" and add that height there. Spires are for those pointy sticks.

thanks - makes alot of sense - will have some repairing to do - find it relaxing though while sitting in the backyard with a cold beer by my side

[TOBoy]

Over at UT, 3D has posted a photo of the redesigned College park 3. 787 ft. in total.

[bhbhbh]

http://www.upside-down.ca/sdphotos/rocp3.jpg

[SSLL]

From: http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/news/toronto/story.html?id=61b37917-b2b4-4921-8112-0f51187c026d
_____________________
Public promenade to be tried out on Queens Quay
August pilot project

James Cowan
National Post

Saturday, July 08, 2006

The Toronto Waterfront Revitalization Corporation wants to convert Queens Quay Boulevard into a public promenade for 10 days this August, replacing two lanes of traffic with impromptu gardens, a bike path and a makeshift lawn.

The temporary transformation of the boulevard between York Street and Spadina Avenue, from Aug. 11 to 20, is intended to give the public a taste of the future as the TWRC begins its transformation of Toronto's central waterfront.

"This is something that allows people in the short term to start realizing the benefits," said Kristin Jenkins, a TWRC spokeswoman.

The TWRC unveiled a new plan for the shoreline between Bathurst and Parliament last month. Designed by West 8, a Dutch architectural firm, the proposal calls for the creation of a tree-lined pedestrian right-of-way along Queens Quay. The jury that selected the winning design suggested temporarily closing Queen's Quay "to create an initial version of the team's ultimate concept."

City Councillor Pam McConnell, who represents the area, said she supports the creation of the pilot-project promenade.

"The fact that you can design a road and try it out before you build it is very, very creative and may, in the long run, make for a much better road," she said.

The TWRC will need the approval of city council and its own board before it creates the temporary promenade.

If endorsed, the project will close the eastbound lanes while leaving the westbound lanes open. TWRC designers have proposed installing a lawn in the closed curbside lane and putting gardens and planters along the streetcar right-of-way. The project will also temporarily extend the Martin Goodman trail.

"The Martin Goodman Trail essentially disappears in the central waterfront right now," Ms. McConnell said. "So this will connect it between Bathurst and Jarvis."

While road closures usually provoke fears of traffic chaos, many local residents appear to be embracing the plan.

"There are people who think this will help animate the street and there are other people who think it's just going to make traffic problems worse," said Anne Christensen, president of the Harbourfront Community Association. "But we won't find out unless we run this trial."

Ulla Colgrass, a representative of the York Quay Neighbourhood Association, described the temporary closure as "a very exciting thing."

"It's worth trying out," she said. "It not only transforms the neighbourhood, it transforms the city to have an area that's not totally beholden to car traffic."

Despite the enthusiasm, some residents are concerned a full assessment has not been done of the effect on local traffic.

"There has been no modelling of the impact that the closure of these lanes will have on traffic," Margaret Samuel, a representative of the Central Waterfront Neighbourhood Association, wrote in an e-mail, adding later, "We will be inconvenienced, however, the response of the TWRC that I heard to this is that we need to put the inconvenience into perspective, that streets are closed all the time."

Ms. Jenkins said the TWRC is committed to adjusting its plan to address neighbourhood concerns.

For her part, Ms. Christensen said she hopes the plan might actually reduce traffic congestion in her neighbourhood.

"Queens Quay definitely has a traffic problem," she admitted. "Not only because of the growing number of people living here, but people use it as an alternate route to get downtown. If this will make Queens Quay for local traffic rather than Lakeshore and Gardiner traffic, then I think it's great."

Ms. Colgrass also noted residents have easy access to public transit and arterial roads. "We have Lake Shore with all those lanes, we have the Gardiner and we have Bremner Boulevard -- we're not exactly in the wilderness," she said.

Work on implementing West 8's design will begin this year with the transformation of eight desolate boat slips into public spaces. The federal, provincial and municipal governments have committed $20.1-million toward the project.

[HigherinCarolina]

It's official. I have found a new destination which I now strongly desire seeing with my own eyes!

[TOBoy]

Surprised there was no mention of this here:

www.newswire.ca/en/releases/archive/July2006/10/c8879.html

http://images.theglobeandmail.com/archives/RTGAM/images/20060710/wtelus0710/telus.jpg
http://www.menkes.com/telus/images/pic_home.jpg

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20060710.wtelus0710/BNStory/Business/home

Telus to join Toronto skyline
ELIZABETH CHURCH

Globe and Mail Update

TORONTO — Telus Corp. is adding its name to the Toronto skyline as the major tenant for a new 30-storey tower to be constructed beside the Air Canada Centre.

The $250-million tower is being built by privately held Menkes Developments Ltd. through a joint venture partnership with Hospitals of Ontario Pension Plan and U.S. private investor, Halcyon Partners Fund. Construction is expected to begin this fall with a target date for completion of January 2009.

Telus has leased 60 per cent of the 780,000-square-foot tower and plans to move 2,000 workers to the site as part of a major consolidation and expansion effort in Ontario.

"We see Toronto as a significant growth market for us," said Andrea Goertz, vice-president of Enterprise Services at Telus. The Vancouver-based firm plans to move staff from 15 different locations throughout the Toronto area to two sites, one in Scarborough on the east side of the city and the new building downtown.

Telus currently has 400 staff working in the city centre, but Mr. Goertz said the new tower will allow all staff involved in services to business clients to work out of out of the same location and in close proximity to major customers. The building, situation between the Gardiner Expressway and a major commuter rail line, will also give the firm huge visibility on the city's skyline.

"It will be like a jewel box,' said Peter Menkes, president of commercial and industrial projects at his family's firm, when asked to describe the new, glass-clad tower. The building will belinked directly to Union Station to the north andis the first office project for the firm in the downtown,which until now has focused its office development inthe north end of the city.

Yesterday's announcement was widely expected and follows a competition that concluded in May with the selection of the Menkes site. The decision by Telus to consolidate staff in the city centre, rather than at a suburban location, is a shot in the arm for Toronto's downtown. The site has long been pegged for office development by the city, but has sat empty for years because of lack of demand.

The Telus building is the second major downtown office project announced this year after more than a decade of little activity. This spring, Cadillac Fairview, the property arm of the Ontario Teachers Pension Plan Board announced a tower on the western side of the downtown near Roy Thomson Hall. Brookfield Properties Corp. also is expected to announce this summer that construction will begin at its long-dormant Bay-Adelaide site.

Telus shares trading down 10 cents at $45.30 on the Toronto stock market Monday.

[Spocket]

^Gack ! Why I'd actually go so far as to say that the new Manitoba Hydro tower looks better than that thing. I really don't think too much of the new MB. Hydro headquarters so I'm sure you can see where I'm going with this. Can't Toronto city council MAKE them build something even moderately pleasing to the eye ? Or, more to the point, make them build something that doesn't cause people to pluck their own eyes out with flaming forks ?

[neilioo]

^Gack ! Why I'd actually go so far as to say that the new Manitoba Hydro tower looks better than that thing. I really don't think too much of the new MB. Hydro headquarters so I'm sure you can see where I'm going with this. Can't Toronto city council MAKE them build something even moderately pleasing to the eye ? Or, more to the point, make them build something that doesn't cause people to pluck their own eyes out with flaming forks ?

whats so bad about it....? its not tall, and it isnt beautifull..but it isnt ugly, its a nice tower.

[WhipperSnapper]

Gack ! Why I'd actually go so far as to say that the new Manitoba Hydro tower looks better than that thing. I really don't think too much of the new MB. Hydro headquarters so I'm sure you can see where I'm going with this. Can't Toronto city council MAKE them build something even moderately pleasing to the eye ? Or, more to the point, make them build something that doesn't cause people to pluck their own eyes out with flaming forks ?

I'm now extremely interested in what you find pleasing to the eye - care to provide some examples? (not that you necessarily are one of them but, I hate those that automatically deem anything bulkier than your average Vancouver residential highrise as worthy of gouging ones own eyes out )



not sure of the podium but the tower is better than anything I could have ever imagined from NYCC's dominant developer

so can we expect a 25 storey Hearst or BoA replica for phase 2 across the street?

[Spocket]

I'm now extremely interested in what you find pleasing to the eye - care to provide some examples? (not that you necessarily are one of them but, I hate those that automatically deem anything bulkier than your average Vancouver residential highrise as worthy of gouging ones own eyes out )



not sure of the podium but the tower is better than anything I could have ever imagined from NYCC's dominant developer

so can we expect a 25 storey Hearst or BoA replica for phase 2 across the street?
Okay, I expected to not be taken quite so seriously on that so I'll retract the most offensive adjectives. Nevertheless, here's why I don't like it, the new MB Hydro HQ and every other building like it :
They're blocks. They're boring blocks. The only attempts made to make them look even remotely original involve throwing some strange sort of industrial-looking lattice-type work on the exteriors. They look just like something you'd see built in the sixties. I look at this style of design as 60's era buildings built today. To know what they'll look like in twenty or thirty years, I simply look at what remains today from the sixties. Those are quite possibly the most boring, uninspired , and downright cheap looking architectural creations in the history of architecture. That's just my opinion and I can undestand if nobody agrees but frankly, I think downtown Toronto should expect better than a box with almost no redeeming qualities that I can see based on the rendering.

[WhipperSnapper]

That's where we differ - I'd take this version of European high-tech over the cheap modernism of the seventies, the awful post-modernism of the eighties, and the pathetic faux historical of today

[neilioo]

That's where we differ - I'd take this version of European high-tech over the cheap modernism of the seventies, the awful post-modernism of the eighties, and the pathetic faux historical of today

I cant tell you how much i agree with you, the look of this building is very high tech post modern, and it is a very nice look, most of the new skyscrapers being proposed in Toronto have it. The ONLY downside about the building is its height.

[TOBoy]

You have to understand that what you cll "boxes" are basically towers with large floor plates that serve the needs of the tenants. You can propose some twisting or round office building, but if its not what tenants want in a building, the developer is never going to get the thing built.

[caltrane74]

I like boxes...just wish this one was taller.

[TOBoy]

I work for RBC Financial, and our department recently made the move from 180 Wellington to Bell Trinity Square. The reason? RBC wanted us all to be on one floor and the floorplates were not large enough at 180 Wellington, but they were the right size at Bell Trinity Square. It just makes sense to have larger floorplates and preferably square.

[SSLL]

From: http://retailtrafficmag.com/mag/retail_north_wind/
______________________
North Wind

By Albert Warson

Jul 1, 2006 12:00 PM



For 12 years, the Town of Markham, on Toronto's northeast fringe, was in limbo as developers, elected officials and residents wrangled over how to enliven the city's downtown. At stake was a 243-acre site, redevelopment of which will reshape this city of 265,000 residents.


Government officials especially have been concerned about containing urban sprawl. And it has taken intense back-and-forth talks with developers The Remington Group to come up with a plan, unveiled in late June, that everyone, finally, seems to be happy with.

The deal was announced with great fanfare as the developers and city officials stood together triumphantly and held a press conference unveiling the $2.66-billion project, which will take 20 years to build out.

How was Remington able to break the deadlock after so long? The answer is mixed-use.

“The incentive 10 or 12 years ago would have been to do a conventional development, and get in and get out quickly,” says Rudy Bratty, Remington's chairman and CEO. “By following the municipality's preference for New Urbanism [enshrined in Markham's official plan], you get more density, but you have to be far more patient getting to the point of construction.”

The trend that U.S. developers have been pushing for the past two years is now making the leap north of the border. And Canadian developers are not just aping the idea of blending uses, but also seeing the projects as a key part of revitalizing urban cores. The majority of the mixed-use developments in the works are in Canadian cities, with projects sprouting in and around Quebec, Vancouver and Toronto that blend retail, office, residential, hotel and other uses.

Remington's Markham will combine Euro-style streets, lined with small shops, with condos and other commercial uses, and the 243-acre development will be interspersed with parks and other public spaces. First up: 200 condominiums and 175 townhouses. After that, 1 million square feet of commercial space ranging from luxury retail, small shops, a boutique hotel, restaurants, cinemas, cafes and nightclubs, will follow, as well as 4.2 million square feet of office space.

In developing the plan, Bratty — along with Markham mayor Don Cousens — made repeated trips around the U.S. looking at how cities were approaching urban revitalization. There they saw examples, such as City Center in West Palm Beach, Fla., that helped shape their vision. In the end, Cousens and Bratty hope that by 2026, developers and city officials from all over the continent will be making similar treks to Markham to follow its example on how to rebuild.

“This is a model that will be emulated by many municipalities across North America, as a solution to urban sprawl,” Cousens says.

Blake Hudema, an urban planner and president of Hudema Consulting Group Limited, believes mixed-use will work in Canada and he expects it to progress more smoothly than it will within the U.S.

“Canada in some respects can lead this development,” Hudema says. “Our inner cities are much more vibrant, typically, than many U.S. cities, where there is a need for a lot of revitalization. Most Canadian cities are healthy and offer a good platform for developers and investors to look at [when considering] redevelopment into mixed-use centers.”

Inner cities, he says, are good places for “densification.” Around Vancouver, land is scarce and expensive. That, he says, “is creating an impetus to create a greater amount of mixed-use. We've also always had fairly intense, dense development, so developers, investors, retailers and customers are attuned to underground or structured parking.”

Although many parts of Canada are embracing mixed-use, the province of Alberta, where the office vacancy rate is a microscopic 2 percent, is an exception. There, six high-rise office towers are under construction, but no other uses are involved.

Edmonton, closest to the oil sands drilling projects in the far northern reaches of the province, is the same. Robert Knight, vice president, retail, of Western Canada, Oxford Properties Group, says, “the Bay and Sears department store anchors function like regional shopping centers in downtown Calgary and are renovated and upgraded periodically, but there are no mixed-use centers.” Nor do they exist in the provincial capital: Edmonton City Centre downtown, with its three high-rise office towers, which is essentially the same as similar developments in other Canadian cities, with their bustling retail concourses.

“People will come downtown on weekends for shopping and entertainment, although parking is difficult and they work there during the week, so there is no novelty,” he says. Mixed-use is not hugely popular with local developers because there are “significant operating challenges. It's great to think of adding a hotel into a cluster of office buildings, but it's hard to add on and could obstruct views,” Knight says. “The crossover between hotel guests utilizing the retail to a significant degree is so-so. Tourists staying at a hotel will likely shop at its stores, but business guests will shop when they're back home.”

But aside from Alberta, the rest of Canada seems won to the concept.

Peter Sharpe, Cadillac Fairview Corp. Limited president and CEO noted at an ICSC regional conference in Montreal in June that, “many of the new projects underway in Canada appear more ‘hybrid’ in nature, combining various elements of design and function and offering a different glimpse of the future. It is a trend to pay attention to.”

“No one is building enclosed malls.”

Jean-Francois Breton, copresident of development company Le Groupe Devimco, noted at the ICSC conference that, “demand is very strong because no one is building enclosed malls in Quebec.”

RioCan Real Estate Income Trust, Toronto, the largest REIT in Canada, has a 50 percent interest in the Quartiers Dix 30 project outside Montreal. The firm is contemplating expanding the 1.5-million-square-foot mall, which hasn't even opened yet, with a hotel and convention center.

In neighboring Ontario, Toronto Eaton Centre's cavernous 1.6 million square feet of retail space, meshed with three high-rise office towers and a 459-room hotel, will be completed this fall after unfolding for nearly 30 years. The last pieces on its downtown city block include three new levels of parking, a new three-story business school and 130,000 square feet of new large-format retail.

John Sullivan, senior vice president, of development with The Cadillac Fairview Corporation (CF), Toronto, says the company is scouting large mixed-use opportunities in Montreal, Calgary and Vancouver.

“Fifteen years ago the focus was on huge regional malls and huge downtown office buildings. Today there isn't a great demand for either of them. We want to keep that same scale, but because of the demand for individual components, we're mixing it up a bit,” he says.

Inside out

The company is redeveloping its 50-year-old Don Mills Shopping Centre, in suburban Toronto. At the time of construction, the 462,000-square-foot mall sat in a 200-acre greenfield site. The mall was enclosed in 1978. Development around the site has put it in a more urban setting. So Cadillac Fairview is starting from scratch. It demolished the center early this summer and will put in its place an open-air, mixed-use town center development with retail in the first phase and residential in the second phase.

A similar story is unfolding in Vancouver, where the first open-air shopping center there, the 56-year-old, 1.2-million-square-foot Park Royal Shopping Centre, has also morphed into a mixed-use project. In addition to retail, it now has 100,000 square feet of office and self-storage space and 500 rental apartment units.

The land under the center is owned by a First Nations group, to which the mall's developer, Larco Investments Ltd., pays rent. That relationship has eased the project's transformation as First Nations has given Larco flexible zoning, which enables multiple uses close to each other.

“Shopping center land is typically zoned for specific uses, and municipal planners have become very single-purpose-oriented. We had the flexibility to do different types of real estate, depending on market,” says Rich Amantea, Larco's vice president.

Nearby, Larco is trying to take advantage of the open zoning to build Morgan Crossing, which Amantea describes as “Canada's first pure mixed-use project, from the ground up,” which, if approved by First Nations, will contain 450,000 square feet of lifestyle retail and 450 condo units. He expects to start construction early next year and open in the fall of 2008.

“Residential development is generally driving mixed-use from a retail standpoint,” Amantea says. “Developers want to build residential, and planners want a soft street-side edge to them, so they're encouraging residential developers to do retail street level to achieve greater social interaction with the local community.”

Success not guaranteed

While mixed-use centers tend to meet developers' expectations, success is not always guaranteed. Financial performance can be mixed. Hazelton Lanes, in Toronto's upscale Yorkville neighborhood, for example, was developed in the late 1970s by William Louis-Dreyfus, chairman of the New York-based Louis Dreyfus Group.

It incorporated retail, office and residential uses (some of the condo units have 2,000-square-foot terraces) in a single, medium-rise and very classy building. It was a winner for many years, but then retail began to slide and that segment bled red ink for years. It didn't recover until a new owner brought in Whole Foods Market Inc., an Austin, Texas-based chain of organic food supermarkets.

It was the first Whole Foods store in Canada, and it was successful from the day it opened, which has also turned Hazelton Lanes' retail around.

Ivanhoe Cambridge's MetroTown in suburban Barnaby, for example, with the largest regional shopping center in British Columbia (1.7 million square feet of commercial space) has a new Hilton Hotel with conference facilities, among other uses.

Keeping people in the city

And under construction is Grosvenor Canada's The RISE, a 290,000-square-foot development on a sloping, 2.2-acre full block under construction in downtown Vancouver. It's designed for 10,000- to 60,000-square-foot retail tenants and 92 residential units which will actually sit on top of the center. Not everybody gets to have a shopping center in their basement.

“It keeps people in the inner city from driving out to suburban shopping centers, so there is less traffic congestion [and polluted air] and it brings more new-format retailers downtown,” Hudema says.

Entertainment centers (cinema multi-plexes/game arcades/food concessions) will be “cautiously developed” in newer mixed-use centers because of high construction costs and unpredictable income (except for popcorn sales). Residential and other commercial developments are a more likely category, such as Bosa Properties' Highgate Village residential/commercial project in Burnaby, which is being built on a former strip mall site.

Some mixed-use centers don't start out that way. Aberdeen Centre, a 380,000-square-foot Asian mall in suburban Richmond, B.C., is one example. Michael Heeney, executive director of Bing Thom Architects in Vancouver, which designed the mall, says Thomas Fung [chairman and CEO of The Fairchild Group, a mixed media enterprise], decided to integrate a 120-unit condo into the mall a few years after it was built.

It is under construction, Heeney says, and in the meantime Fung has moved most of his office and broadcasting studios into the complex, which also allows him to offer on-site print and broadcast promotional services to his tenants.

[caltrane74]

Bay Adelaide beings construction next week!!!!!! yippee

[Dale]

^ What's the hurry on this thing ? ;)

Seriously, it was about to begin construction when I was in Toronto in 1990, I think it was. Anyway, great news. And this is the best design yet, IMO.

[neilioo]

^ What's the hurry on this thing ? ;)

Seriously, it was about to begin construction when I was in Toronto in 1990, I think it was. Anyway, great news. And this is the best design yet, IMO.

it did start construction..hence the huge ass stump they had to demolish lol. And it may look like a nice design but you should have seen the previous 253m design..so much nicer.

[icescraper]

Kind of like the Telus building. Looks very German from the eighties with a dab of post modernism. At 30 floors it should in reality be a little taller than the rendering suggests. Will be good to finally have the old train yards filled up although will never be the same as with the trains. Appart from relatively cheap parking downtown wide hole just disconnected waterfront from city. - ice.

[Dale]

it did start construction..hence the huge ass stump they had to demolish lol. And it may look like a new design but you should have seen the previous 253m design..so much nicer.

If you mean the WZMH design with the spire, I thought it looked pretty boffo at the time, but seems rather dated at this point.

[WhipperSnapper]

"hence the huge ass stump they had to demolish lol"

the stump still stands as well as the two highrises where the tower is going

[neilioo]

"hence the huge ass stump they had to demolish lol"

the stump still stands as well as the two highrises where the tower is going

shitty, i thought they were moving faster then that..ok ill refraise it..the stump that thet stiull have to demolish..:( lol

[duper]

shitty, i thought they were moving faster then that..ok ill refraise it..the stump that thet stiull have to demolish..:( lol

Thankfully it will be demolished shortly.

They are obligated to get rid of the stump for the Bay-Adelaide complex's park as they construct the building, Bay-Adelaide Centre West.

[TOBoy]

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/LAC.20060719.RBROOK19/TPStory/Business

End nears for Toronto's Bay-Adelaide 'stump'
Brookfield to unveil revamped plans to develop mothballed tower site today
SHIRLEY WON

The "stump," a tragic landmark of the early 1990s recession, is about to disappear from downtown Toronto.

Brookfield Properties Corp. today will take the wraps off its proposal for a new office tower to be built on the mothballed site, with KPMG LLP as the anchor tenant. Under the new plans, the six-storey, ugly reminder of the past devastation of the real estate industry will be demolished.

The accounting firm has three offices in Toronto, including its headquarters at Commerce Court West.

Work on the proposed Bay-Adelaide Centre halted in 1993, leaving a grey, concrete elevator core on top of a parking garage that has affectionately been known as "the stump" ever since.

The project is the latest of three skyscrapers slated for the city's core after a hiatus of some 15 years following the collapse of the Toronto office market in the early 1990s.

Tom Farley, president of Brookfield's Canadian operations indicated in April that revised plans call for a 1.1-million-square-foot office tower with an adjacent hotel and condominium development. There are also long-term plans for a second office tower on the site.

In May, Toronto city council gave the nod to a 50-storey office tower to replace two low-rise buildings on the Bay-Adelaide site. A public square has been designated for the part occupied by the "stump."

The project is expected be completed by 2009 -- the same year as two other major office towers that have already been announced for downtown Toronto.

Raymond Wong, national research director for real estate company CB Richard Ellis Ltd., said the three new projects will add 3.1-million square feet of premium office space, but there won't be a glut.

The three projects will push the vacancy rate up to 10.6 per cent from 3.9-per-cent rate projected for 2008, and the current 6.8-per-cent rate, Mr. Wong said yesterday in an interview.

"It's a far cry from 1993 when [vacancy] was at 18.6 per cent, so this 10.6 per cent is almost a balanced market," Mr. Wong added. "There are no major dangers to the office market."

Last week, privately held Toronto-based Menkes Developments Inc. announced the building of a $250-million, 30-storey tower beside the Air Canada Centre.

Vancouver-based telecommunications company Telus Corp. is the lead tenant, and is taking up 60 per cent of the 780,000-square-foot tower.

Last December, Toronto-based Cadillac Fairview Corp. signed Royal Bank of Canada to be lead tenant in its new 43-storey, 1.2-million-square-foot tower to be built at Simcoe and Wellington Streets, beside the new Ritz-Carlton Hotel. The tower will be known as the RBC Centre.

New York-based Brookfield, the real estate arm of Toronto-based Brookfield Management Inc., began to revive the Bay-Adelaide project last fall after buying the 50-per-cent stake it did not already own from Canadian National Railway Co.'s pension fund.

First approved by Toronto city council in 1989, the Bay-Adelaide site was slated for a 57-storey office tower. A plan to restart the project in 1999 stalled after an anchor tenant could not be found.

The last major office tower built in downtown Toronto was the Maritime Life Tower developed by O&Y Properties Corp. at the corner of Queen and Yonge Streets in 2003.