[GrandHyatt]

The first tower crane is in the air. I talked to Rick and he said the second tower crane will be up in a few weeks. The concrete operation started in the lower level of the garage.

[KevinFromTexas]

Awesome, that's great news. What color is it? Yellow? Is it Texas Cranes by any chance? It should say at the rear part of the crane at the top. Texas Cranes is based in San Antonio by the way, so they should be the ones doing it. They've done most of Austin's buildings also, 300 West Sixth, Frost Bank and about 10 others.

[michobq]

Convention center hotel in works

Web Posted: 05/18/2006 12:00 AM CDT
Mike Greenberg
Express-News Staff Writer

Several members of San Antonio's Historic and Design Review Commission found fault with the proposed final design for a Hyatt hotel and condo tower at the Convention Center on Wednesday, but they gave a provisional thumbs-up to a high-rise hotel and condo project on Houston Street.

Amid complaints that the design "is not soup yet" and not "uniquely San Antonio," the architects of the Convention Center project said they would continue working with the commission's architectural committee to refine the design.

Originally presented to the public in 2004 as a hotel in a pair of slender joined towers reaching 525 feet, the Convention Center project design changed greatly last summer.

With the addition of condominiums to the mix and the working out of the hotel's meeting-space needs, the tower became much shorter and much wider along Market Street.

The version presented Wednesday was a new iteration of that basic scheme, but with major changes to the skin. As presented, the building would stand 425 feet, with 11 floors of condos atop 19 floors of hotel rooms and a four-story base containing the hotel's public spaces and meeting rooms.

The exterior would be clad in clear glass with pre-cast concrete in patterns that would vary among the three parts of the tower.

Commissioners were pleased that the three distinct exterior treatments would give the building a visual bottom, middle and top.

But architecture committee Chairman Xavier Gonzalez said of the design, "It's not soup yet. It's not the exuberant, significant building that San Antonio deserves on this site."

Commission Chairman Jeffrey Fetzer said, "I don't know that the entire building is uniquely San Antonio."

The design team, Arquitectonica of Miami and San Antonio-based Kell-Munoz Architects, offered to meet again with the architecture committee to reconsider its specific concerns and to return to the full commission to seek final approval on June 7.

With some provisos, the commission granted preliminary conceptual approval for the Houston Street hotel and condo project.

A new tower, planned to rise 27 stories, would replace a parking lot at the corner of Houston and Jefferson streets. The tower would connect to a former Kress department store, which would be renovated to hold the hotel lobby, some guest rooms and a rooftop pool. The Kress building's art deco facade would be retained.

Architect Andres Andujar of 3D/I declined to name the hotel operator but said it was a very well-known high-end chain with hotels in San Francisco, Dallas and Chicago, among other cities.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
mgreenberg@express-news.net

[starvinggryphon]

What the hell? If the building is already under construction then how can the Design Review Commission still want to "refine" the design? Will somebody choose a fucking design and stick with it or is this going to happen until there is a deadlock and we have a hideous shell of a perpetually unfinished monster downtown?

[michobq]

DOes anyone think that in the new design that they might add some height to the Hyatt so it can look more "Grand"???? I hope this new design is more slender with more height! It would be nicer and distinguish it from the other convention center hotels that the company has designed! Anyone know the e-mail address or phone # to the Historic and Design Review Commission to try to lobby for more height to the hotel????

[StoOgE]

I wouldnt count on more height. This sounds like nothing but facade work and not the actual design of the building.. I would think its a little late in the process to start redoing the whole design.

[jaga185]

:previous: I agree, they could have changed the design if they hadn't already dug 5-stories into the ground.

[michobq]

The parking structure might not change, but the design on top might depending on where people will enter the underground parking garage, but cross your fingers for the height increase!

[KevinFromTexas]

Well, I'm not sure what to think. But the construction phase is very early, so who knows, it could get taller. Even if it doesn't go any higher I'd still like the design to change a bit. This building says nothing about San Antonio.

[texboy]

Well I took advantage of my day off today and took a little trip downtown to check out the progress on the hotel...ok the size of this hole is UNBELIEVEABLE....I went to the top of the garage across the street and when I looked down I went into one of those woozy weird feelings that you get when you look off of a really tall cliff....it was quite incredible to look at....also included here are one or two pics of the cascada time shares going up about a mile in the distance....enjoy!

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y280/TexasGuy286/12-03-05064.jpg

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y280/TexasGuy286/12-03-05068.jpg

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y280/TexasGuy286/12-03-05069.jpg

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y280/TexasGuy286/12-03-05070.jpg

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y280/TexasGuy286/12-03-05071.jpg

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y280/TexasGuy286/12-03-05074.jpg

[Mopacs]

Thanks for the updates! Nice to see a crane in place finally. And yes, that hole is DEEEP... just look at the size of the bulldozers at the bottom of the pit.

[elmariachi]

Will there be another, bigger crane up soon. That one doesn't look big enough for a 400+ foot building. It isn't even taller than the Marriott Riverwalk (if I remember correctly). Or will that one grow up as the building grows up?

[michobq]

I decided to call up Arquitectonica and was told from a very reliable source that the project will most likely remain at the 425 ft and the overall design of the project would not change. There however will be made some minor changes to the exterior to alleviate the concerns of the Historic and Design Review Commission. Not the news that I think most people were expecting, but the new design changes should be out in the next couple of weeks.

[KevinFromTexas]

Will there be another, bigger crane up soon. That one doesn't look big enough for a 400+ foot building. It isn't even taller than the Marriott Riverwalk (if I remember correctly). Or will that one grow up as the building grows up?

There should be another crane on this project before it's finished. Maybe not for a while, not sure why both weren't built at the sametime, but there should be another one. And yes, it will grow in height as the building grows in height. Tower cranes would never be say 400 feet tall or so right at first for a project. That would make it hard on the crane operator to see the ground and move things around. Typically once a building's top during construction comes to within say 3 or 4 floors or so of it's tower crane then it will be raised another 50 feet or so. I think for the Frost Bank Tower they raised the cranes maybe 4 times in all.

[GrandHyatt]

I talked to Rick with FaulknerUSA and he said a bigger crane will be installed mid june.

[KevinFromTexas]

Cool. Don't get discouraged guys. I'm sure more highrise condos will be on the way. I'm betting that after the Hyatt is finished and those units start to sell there will be more projects in the works. Hey there's already that one on Houston Street mentioned earlier and that one right off the bat will be atleast 311 feet and 27 floors as mentioned.

[texboy]

I still don't understand why people get upset over downtown projects (or the lack thereof) I love San Antonio for what it is, yes I will be the first to admit that I do get very excited about new projects going up in the CBD, but the one thing I like about San Antonio the most is the city as a whole doesn't feel the need to be "cosmopolitan" or "fashionable"....trying to be something other than what it is....The people of San Antonio just let San Antonio...be SAN ANTONIO. I wouldn't want San Antonio to be like Austin...trying to be a mini NYC...or Dallas or Houston...or any other City...San Antonio is unique...and this is why more people from around the state and nation make the trip to our city and make it the number ONE tourist destination in the state! We have 1 major and 3 semi major Universities, one of the most diverse cultures in the state if not THE most diverse and THE best mexican food and margaritas that money can buy! BE PROUD of all that is SA! I would like to see more San Antonio forumers actually become proud of our city and love it for what it is, and stop being jealous of what it isn't. Other forumers from other cities feed off that jealousy and this is why San Antonio forumers have a less that great rep on here. And for the people who like to hate on SA...get over yourselves...this is supposed to be a fun website where people can get together and talk about highrises and projects going up around our cities and around the world, not a place to bash other people.

Alright....rant done.

[GoldenBoot]

...I wouldn't want San Antonio to be like Austin...trying to be a mini NYC...or Dallas or Houston...

...this is supposed to be a fun website where people can get together and talk about highrises and projects going up around our cities and around the world, not a place to bash other people.

Texboy,

If jealousy and bashing of other cities makes San Antonian forumers look bad, why do you continue? --See bold quote above-- If that's not jealousy, bashing and/or name-calling, then I don't know what is... Lead by example, if you want people to change. In this case, you did not.

If I may suggest, you could have successfully made your point without taking a stab at what developers in Austin are proposing! By doing so, it just makes YOU look jealous. And let’s be realistic here, you and a majority of the San Antonio forumers would be completely over the moon if San Antonio had several 300-700+ ft. projects proposed or under construction in central S.A.!!!

As you said, and I paraphrase, who cares what other cities are doing. Be proud of San Antonio and its accomplishments! There’s enough going on here to keep San Antonio forumers busy.

[texboy]

How is that bashing? Austin DOES want to be a mini NYC and I don't want San Antonio to be like Houston or Dallas, not that its a bad thing, but I want San Antonio to stay unique...thats aaaaall Im saying.

[GoldenBoot]

How is that bashing? Austin DOES want to be a mini NYC and I don't want San Antonio to be like Houston or Dallas, not that its a bad thing, but I want San Antonio to stay unique...thats aaaaall Im saying.

Oops, I forgot, you ARE Austin and thus, are able to speak for the entire city and what it is feeling.

So, "Austin," why are you not a unique city yourself? Isn’t every city in the world unique in its own way?

Also, why do you want to become a “mini NYC?” In fact, lets clarify something, why do you describe yourself as wanting to becoming a mini NYC and not a mini Miami, San Diego, Chicago, Las Vegas, Sydney, Melbourne, Dubai, Hong Kong, Shanghai, London, Barcelona, etc., etc., etc – anywhere where there is a lot of development happening (especially in the retail and housing sectors)? Oh, geez, Nashville has a 1,000’ skyscraper proposal; I guess they’re a mini NYC as well… Oops, Ft. Worth too! They’ve got a 900 footer on the table…


Okay, I admit and apologize - the above was quite mean. I just get frustrated when people think that “their” city is more unique and better than any other city. But, it is your opinion and you have the right to it.

I love S.A! San Antonio has its unique qualities. But, at the same time, it’s “Anytown USA” as much as any other city with over 1 million people! Urban sprawl, polluted waterways, tourist traps, strip centers, miles and miles of concrete is apart of what is San Antonio. On the other hand, the Hill Country, the Alamo, the four other Missions, and green space also define the city.

Anyway, San Antonio is a great city (which was never in question here). I just think that by labeling another city, whether it’s Austin, Dallas, Houston, Nashville, etc., as a mini-City X while strongly suggesting that City X is not unique in and of itself, is contradictory to your point of peacefully celebrating development accomplishments and proposals in the setting of this forum.

So, having said that, truce my friend???

[DepecheMatt]

Can't we just all get along. I think we are supposed to be friendly in Austin and San Antonio, and not stuck up like Dallas.

[texboy]

yea I give up...not even worth it.

[michobq]

I am glad... was afraid we would lose the thread like the Pro Sports in Austin thread...

[texboy]

Yea I try not to ruin threads.

[kornbread]

I thought this was a good article that addresses some comments made at the last review which I also questioned. What exactly is the review board expecting at this time? Here is one opnion:
========================================================
Mike Greenberg: There simply is no architectural style that is pure San Antonio

Web Posted: 05/28/2006 12:00 AM CDT
San Antonio Express-News

http://www.mysanantonio.com/entertainment/columnists/mgreenberg/stories/MYSA052806.4J.greenberg.20030abb.html

What is a San Antonio building, anyway?

The question arises in connection with the skin of the future Grand Hyatt hotel and condominiums, already under construction next to the Convention Center.

The project's designers, Steve Tillotson of San Antonio-based Kell-Muñoz Architects and Jose Gaviria of Miami's famed Arquitectonica, sought final approval this month from the Historic and Design Review Commission.

The panel's architecture committee chair, Xavier Gonzalez — among others — was not pleased with what he saw. The facade design, he said, "is not San Antonio. It doesn't speak to our heritage, modern or otherwise." Its elements "don't add up to a San Antonio building."

The design does not exactly make my heart sing. The best I can say for it is that the architects did quite a good job of expressing the project's three distinct functional tiers — hotel public spaces at the bottom, guest rooms in the middle, condos on top — in a consistent, fairly conservative vocabulary of clear glass and thin precast concrete panels.

The skin gains some needed color and articulation from vertical stripes of orange and yellow metal panels on the two gigantic offset slabs of the tower, and some nice rhythmic energy from the pattern of concrete panels on the four-story base. A tall limestone portal to the Lila Cockrell Theater is a nice touch.

The appearance could perhaps be improved with more articulation of the middle tier, but great, memorable, lyrical architecture is not in the cards for this project. Too much stuff has to be crammed into too narrow a footprint.

But the accusation that this design is "not San Antonio" is entirely without merit.

First, one can make a case that the design is San Antonio. The preponderance of masonry (the precast concrete panels), the vertical color stripes and the hierarchical articulation of tower bays follow the tradition of downtown's iconic 1920s skyscrapers.

Second, the commission would be hard-pressed to justify any set of architectural attributes that is unique to San Antonio, or to identify any significant "San Antonio" building whose major stylistic traits are not imported fashions.

What are the historic precedents for an authentic "San Antonio" architecture of large scale?

The French-Gothic (via Charleston, S.C.) nave of San Fernando Cathedral? The East Coast Richardsonian Romanesque Bexar County Courthouse? The Midwest commercial modernism of the Rand Building?

And what did the storybook Spanish-Venetian fantasy of Robert Hugman's Shops of Aragon and Romula — otherwise known as the River Walk — have to do with the real cultural roots of San Antonio?

The strongest candidates for an indigenous architecture are O'Neil Ford's pioneering Lift-Slab buildings at Trinity University — the structural system was invented here — but their plainspoken modernism would never pass muster with this commission. Not "San Antonio" enough.

Finally, to the extent the design is not "San Antonio" enough for the commission's ideological authenticists, that may be a good thing. For an example of a recent building that met the commission's high standard of cultural appropriateness, take a look at La Cascada, that plug-ugly condo tower with the teensy windows and the fake Spanish accent.

We're talking about a 1,000-room convention hotel with condos on top — a locally unprecedented building type. It ain't gonna look like a neighborhood ice house.

To go further than the architects have gone in the direction of local authenticity, they would have to dress this building in drag.

How authentic would that be?

========================================================

I still wonder why the building changed so drastically from the one that helped win the bid? Was it review commission comments? Was it Hyatt requirements? Was it budget constraints? Maybe a little of all.

[michobq]

When I called up Arquitectonica, I also asked about the drastic change of design of the orginal rendering from the one we have seen recently. The person I talked to seemed to be offended that I asked and said that design was never really decided on till Faulkner USA came into the picture. The design was changed in regards to what FaulknerUSA wanted and to the city's needs for the convention center. This is again info from the source I mentioned earlier. They should be presenting their final design to the Historic and Review Commission I believe on June 6th.

[KevinFromTexas]

I think it's fine for San Antonio's skyline to become modern. Heck look at cities in Europe that are up to 1,000 years old yet have some of the most modern skylines in the world. Infact it's those cities that are on the cutting edge of modern architecture. Look at London, Paris, Frankfurt, Malmo and others. And if you look at Spain which is culturally closer to San Antonio than those cities even they have some great modern architecture. Cities like Madrid and Barcelona. Also look at Mexico. Mexico City is building some really nice modern towers.

FaulknerUSA has some horrible designs. That's all there is to it. Our convention center hotel is growing on me but it's far from being one of my favorite towers on the skyline. I don't understand how a company that is based in Austin, Austin a city which is supposed to be about uniqueness and local businiesses rather than cookie-cutter, one size fits all, national chains, could be based here and practice that type of architecture and developments. We'll see.

[jaga185]

I've actually learned to accept the new design as is, I'm not going to complain anymore. I'm actually excited about the new exterior changes being made to it. I'm more excited about Houston street, and all the density taking place there.

[21bl0wed]

They are in the process of putting in the second crane. I went over yesterday and they had around the first 15 feet of it in. Second crane will also be white like the first. Other than that it doesn't really look like they've made any progress...still a huge pile of dirt in part of the hole.

[KevinFromTexas]

Cool. I look forward to seeing it next month.

[starvinggryphon]

I saw another crane today across the freeway today.......could it be the Staybridge going up?

[21bl0wed]

I saw another crane today across the freeway today.......could it be the Staybridge going up?

Yeah it is. They haven't really done anything to the second crane at the hyatt. The only part in is like one piece of the base (its like 15 feet tall) it's got a ways to go before you can see it even sticking out of the huge pit.
The staybridge area is TINY...anyone have renders?

[kornbread]

Yeah it is. They haven't really done anything to the second crane at the hyatt. The only part in is like one piece of the base (its like 15 feet tall) it's got a ways to go before you can see it even sticking out of the huge pit.
The staybridge area is TINY...anyone have renders?
Here is one from a site that talks about upcoming construction:
http://www.esanantonio.com/bravo%20san%20antonio.htm

Most new hotels may not have historic details to burnish, but many have hallowed turf to build on. One such is the 12-story Sunset Station Staybridge Suites at St. Paul Square. The 138-unit structure, by Carl E. Woodward Architects of New Orleans, has been planned as an "extended-stay" (equipped with kitchenettes) facility and will offer one-bedroom, two-bedroom and studio options, along with a reading room, a catered-food service area, a great room and a patio and swimming pool area. Ribbon cutting is anticipated in mid-2007.


From what you can see, it looks like the base will match Sunset Station and the rest is pretty simple:
http://www.esanantonio.com/images/Staybridge.jpg

[KevinFromTexas]

Thanks for that link. There was some info there I hadn't previously heard about. Isn't the La Cascada II already under construction?

Man I remember back to the day I was in downtown checking out the construction site for La Cascada I. The building was up but the outer skin hadn't been finished yet. In true July fashion a mean looking thunderstorm came through and things starting looking dark. The wind picked up, sand and dust at the construction site was blowing down the street and in my eyes, and of course some trash was blowing around too. The wind was quite strong I wanted to get a picture of the building under construction but forget about it I had trouble keeping my hat from blowing away. I don't even remember if I was able to get the shot. It started thundering and I love it when you're in downtown during a thunderstorm. The skyscrapers look amazing against the grey sky and the clouds look so cool. The thunder too echoes through the streets. That was a cool experience. I hurried back to the convention center before it started pouring and boy did it ever.

[starvinggryphon]

Actually now the second crane at the Grand Hyatt site is going up and boy it's looking big right now! There was also a ginormous rendering of the hotel at the site and I think I really want to see this thing go up now. By the way there are 4 cranes up in downtown right now.

[21bl0wed]

Actually now the second crane at the Grand Hyatt site is going up and boy it's looking big right now! There was also a ginormous rendering of the hotel at the site and I think I really want to see this thing go up now. By the way there are 4 cranes up in downtown right now.

Sounds good, gonna have to go downtown yet again this week! The second to last time i went about a week ago..they had market street closed right by the site...

[jaga185]

I kind of like the staybridge, it's simple and matches the La Quinta across the highway

[ryan5021]

Starving, there should be six possibly seven cranes by Sept. with Marriott Courtyard, Piazza San Lorenzo and hopefully Vidorra 1. I don't know about the plans for the Embassy Suites or the 27 story hotel/condo tower on Houston St. Does the rendering for the Hyatt look like what's on Faulkner's website?

[starvinggryphon]

^^^
It's the exact same drawing except so much more detailed.

[alexjon]

Anyone gonna snap some skyline shots from up by SA College (the main bulding perhaps) to get a full scope of all the cranes?

[Mopacs]

New Renderings... horrible quality, taken from a PDF document. Still, more details than previously seen...

http://images17.fotki.com/v8/photos/5/54967/229189/HyattRendering-vi.jpg

http://images1.fotki.com/v321/photos/5/54967/229189/Hyatt1-vi.jpg

http://images17.fotki.com/v323/photos/5/54967/229189/Hyatt3-vi.jpg

http://images1.fotki.com/v317/photos/5/54967/229189/Hyatt2-vi.jpg


Massing....
http://images17.fotki.com/v326/photos/5/54967/229189/HyattRendering8-vi.jpg


http://images16.fotki.com/v316/photos/5/54967/229189/HyattRendering3-vi.jpg


http://images17.fotki.com/v9/photos/5/54967/229189/HyattRendering7-vi.jpg

http://images17.fotki.com/v326/photos/5/54967/229189/HyattRendering10-vi.jpg

http://images16.fotki.com/v275/photos/5/54967/229189/HyattRendering4-vi.jpg

http://images17.fotki.com/v323/photos/5/54967/229189/HyattRendering2-vi.jpg

http://images1.fotki.com/v321/photos/5/54967/229189/HyattRendering6-vi.jpg

http://images17.fotki.com/v324/photos/5/54967/229189/HyattRendering11-vi.jpg

[JACKinBeantown]

How very unfortunate.

[KevinFromTexas]

I'm still optimistic about it. I'm curious about what exactly the facade will look like. I sort of like the top with the balconies. The different colors and patterns may turn out to be fairly interesting actually. I'm still not exactly sure what the different patterns are supposed to represent, but they sort of remind me of Mexican quilts.

[jaga185]

My only real criticism is that it looks like any other building that could be built anywhere...and they wanted something unique to San Antonio.

[OfCourse]

Pretty blah and vanilla.

[StoOgE]

San Antonio can thank its city council for taking what would have been a new tallest building for the city and turning into a short squaty bland building. Ya'll are taking this too well. If our city council had decided not to give the heigh variances to some of our new tall proposals and instead suggested this for them I would be throwing rotten vegtables at those pretty windos that look out on 2nd street.

Dont get me wrong, construction of any sort is nice, but that original rendering was such a uniqe sleek looking building that would have added height and uniqeness to the skyline. Now, its just filler in the skyline.

[JACKinBeantown]

The ONLY good thing I can see as a result of this re-design is that the views from the Tower of the Americas will not be obscured by this shorter building.

[21bl0wed]

I'm pretty upset the ORIGINAL sheraton designed failed and then the colorful hyatt failed...This building sucks imo. Its not really 'short' but its just blah. Im sure we'll be getting atleast 2 500 footers in the near future though..Especially with them wanting to stop some of the growth north on 281 cause of the recharge zone. Anyway atleast the building will help density for now.

[KevinFromTexas]

Yeah I'm sorry the original Sheraton one wasn't built. Wasn't it supposed to be on the other side of the convention center? They were also supposed to extend the Riverwalk, and, from what I heard it was supposed to be around 575 feet with 50 floors. I think eventually San Antonio will end up seeing a 50-story hotel tower bringing back the tallest hotel title to San Antonio. Of all the possible cities in Texas to hold that title, San Antonio definitely deserves it.

[jaga185]

nah, the original Sheraton would have been where the current hotel is going, it just would been built like an L. So the small footprint is no excuse for height or anything, but whatever.

[OfCourse]

The Sheraton would have been really awesome. Even the original rendering for this one would have been great. What the hell is going on in their minds? Everything seems to get boring-ed up.

[Jasonhouse]

Holy crap this design sucks... I remember the origional design... I even have a rendering saved on my HD.

Man, what a bummer.

[Stu]

The old rendering was that multi colored 500 or so footer right? That thing had personality and would have had an excellent impact on the SA skyline.

The newer design is ho-hum, longer than it is tall, quite boring.

[kornbread]

I think eventually San Antonio will end up seeing a 50-story hotel tower bringing back the tallest hotel title to San Antonio. Of all the possible cities in Texas to hold that title, San Antonio definitely deserves it.
I don't know about that. There are a lot of new hotel rooms that are coming online in the next couple of years (including those past loop-land). It will be interesting to see how the market absorbs all of them.

I think after this current group of proposed hotels, that's it for awhile. There has to be a reason to add the number of rooms a 50-story hotel gives you. San Antonio does not yet consistently attract the big conventions, and the city's tourism directors have been leaving for other places. So at a time when they should be working to fill this hotel up, there is disorganization. There is, however, plenty of time for "eventually ".

This seems like a wasted oppurtunity to add a defintive building to the skyline. No centerpiece, just more fill.

[DepecheMatt]

San Antonio's city council and design review all need to be shot just on the basis of the stupid hidden law that no building can ever be taller than the "Holy Brown Tower". What a shame that a Jim's in the sky must be the tallest structure for the city skyline.

[michobq]

San Antonio's city council and design review all need to be shot just on the basis of the stupid hidden law that no building can ever be taller than the "Holy Brown Tower". What a shame that a Jim's in the sky must be the tallest structure for the city skyline.

^^^The Tower is no longer a "Jim's" in the sky. The Tower is now run be Landry's. The design was changed to meet the needs of the convention center hotel in accordance with Faulkner USA. The 1st design was a pre-Faulkner USA design, which means it was up in the air still.

I believe SA will get a building taller the Tower someday, but it won't be in such close proximity to it. Most likely will be a center point for the downtown area in the CBD- maybe AT&T if they stay in SA will make the centerpiece for downtown. Imagine that...

[CHAPINM1]

What's the height of the MAIN roof? I know the height of the little area on top bumps the total building height to 415 feet, but if someone could tell me the height of the main roof that would be great, just curious. Thanks in advance...

[starvinggryphon]

The main roof of the Grand Hyatt will be something like 367 feet? I read that in some post.......don't know if it's true.

[21bl0wed]

The main roof of the Grand Hyatt will be something like 367 feet? I read that in some post.......don't know if it's true.

On the elevation pics its either 367' or 387' to the main roof i can't make it out.

[jaga185]

I think that the final, overall impact of this building will be better than we all think. I mean, we haven't seen any other renderings of color except for that ugly one of it at night, maybe during the day it will be better.

[21bl0wed]

Anyone been down there recently? I haven't been on the parking garage across the street in like two weeks...Usually i go atleast once a week. Have they actually started pouring any of the garage levels yet? Or still foundation stuff?

[texboy]

I drove by on 37 the other day, nothin is peaking out of the hole just yet, but the cranes look awesome down there! Staybridge is coming along very nicely!

[texboy]

Planning on taking a little trip down within the next week or so...anyone else taken pictures?!?!

[21bl0wed]

I've taken pics there on my gfs camera but they are about 2 weeks old. It kind of sucks...When i went they still weren't done with the first level of the parking garage :( Maybe now they've done a lil more? I just want to start seeing it rise finally but they are taking forever at the bottom of the pit!

[The Nano]

UPDATE!!!!!
7/23/06

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e169/ghettovaquero47/100_2396.jpg

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e169/ghettovaquero47/100_2394.jpg

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e169/ghettovaquero47/100_2395.jpg

We can now see the full footprint

[texboy]

Awesome! Thank you so much! I try to make it down there every now and then, but my life at this point has gotten so crazy busy I can barely find any time!

[21bl0wed]

Great pics. I was at the tower last week but couldn't quite see that area of the hole by the river. So looks like they are starting the second level of the garage there correct?

[KevinFromTexas]

Coolness!

[KevinFromTexas]

Ok, I've sent the folks at Arquitectonica, FaulknerUSA and Kell-Munoz Architects emails about the height. I'll be in San Antonio on 29th and told them if they couldn't email the info to me that I could visit the construction site and view the blueprints. So, we'll see what they say. I'm hoping they'll let me. Those elevations posted earlier with the tiny print are such a tease.

[jaga185]

Finally, a colored *daytime* picture!

Looks like the colored floorplates are still there some how.

http://www.sanantonio.gov/convfac/images/dayHyatt.jpg

[JACKinBeantown]

What an ugly piece of crap. San Antonio deserves better than that. At least the hole is impressive.

[21bl0wed]

:( This just sucks cause now this is just going to add to how our skyline looks like two clusters...

[Chicago3rd]

I think this building perfectly reflects the people running the sit...big, bulky, beneign, small townish, conservative. A total denial of San Antonio's glorious heritage.

Ironic....a mass study. It gets and F for mass....squate..bulky...ugly....forminng a huge sad wall of shame.

On the positive...maybe people in San Antonio will notice that adding this to the SBC Center...they are quickly becoming the Wal-Mart of all cities.

[starvinggryphon]

I comfort myself by acknowledging that this is the first 30+ tower being built in around 17 years!

[CGII]

I think this design would be fantastic if what appears to be concrete covering the most of the tower was stainless steel panelling. That texturing would work well with the colour of the glass and play off the surrounding area. Even simple petty details could really save this project. Shame they just sat around with this design.

[21bl0wed]

I just want pretty..tall...glass buildings like Houston. :(

[KevinFromTexas]

I'm still liking the top. I like those balconies and the glass? up there. And the base has potential. And atleast it's not brown. San Antonio and Austin both have enough brown buildings as it is.

[CGII]

I'm still liking the top. I like those balconies and the glass? up there. And the base has potential. And atleast it's not brown. San Antonio and Austin both have enough brown buildings as it is.
But Austin has ultramodern buildings (like Frost) and a LOT more modern buildings proposed. San Antonio is really pretty much devoid of some nice, crisp, modernism (not necissarily a bad thing, but most cities should at least have some).

[kornbread]

But Austin has ultramodern buildings (like Frost) and a LOT more modern buildings proposed. San Antonio is really pretty much devoid of some nice, crisp, modernism (not necissarily a bad thing, but most cities should at least have some).
I like the Frost. That building is definately the centerpiece of the highrises.
However, I wouldn't call any of the buildings built or proposed for Austin ultramodern (maybe the Stacey building).

For example, I don't consider the 360 ultramodern. To me, it's tall and glass and the base looks fine, but the building really only looks good from one angle (the rendering angle). Otherwise there is nothing really interesting about it.

I think most of the proposed buildings in Austin are looking for a balance between old Austin and new, which I think makes sense. It will help the city create a unique identity. So, no ultramodern IMO.

That said, I think that SA has had some missed oppurtunities to be more modern...er, modern. This building being one of them. This one was especially disappointing because of its size.

The first Faulkner design was simple, but bold because of the use of color. Especially for SA, like it was ready to follow the lead of the central library building (as far as making a statement). I know some thought it was loud, but I thought it would have looked great at night and would lead the way for more modernism. As it is now, the final design looks better and there may be more interest in the details, but she looks like a wallflower.

[CGII]

I like the Frost as well. I suppose one shouldn't call anything in Austin ultramodern, but the modernism of the 60's and 70's kind of skipped over SA, and SA just got a lot of postmodernist stuff, like the Marriot RiverCenter. SA needs some postpostmodernism, ie Frost. My message as well, is that Austin has a lot more highrises proposed that are not necessarily 'ultramodern,' but modern in style, and San Antonio has, comparitively, nil proposed. San Anotonio just needs a little touch of glass to balance out the styles there.

[kornbread]

Review: Grand Hyatt's final design is notably lacking in flair

http://www.mysanantonio.com/entertainment/stories/MYSA073006.8J.grandhyatt.9651be.html
Web Posted: 07/30/2006 12:09 PM CDT

Mike Greenberg
Express-News Senior Critic

To put it succinctly, the final design for the Grand Hyatt Hotel and Riverwalk Residences, now under construction next to the Convention Center and scheduled for completion in spring 2008, is a background building placed on a foreground site and magnified to in-your-face scale.

On a less prominent site, and built on private land not subject to city design review, this project would doubtless trudge below the radar of critical notice.

Yet both architecture firms involved in this project — Arquitectonica of Miami and Kell-Muñoz Architects of San Antonio — routinely produce much stronger, visually striking work.

Indeed, the original concept for this building, as it appeared in a rendering released in late 2004, promised an iconic contemporary presence, formally conservative but playful in its gestures and bold in its use of color.

Almost nothing of that concept is discernible in the final design, which falls well below par for both architecture firms, and especially for the local firm's Stephen Land Tillotson, a thoughtful, conscientious and lyrical designer.

The obvious question: How did two strong design firms manage to produce something so pedestrian?

The answer is necessarily conjectural, at least in part, but the evidence points to several usual suspects — the building type (including the economic realities associated with it), the client (Faulkner USA of Austin) and the public review process.

First, the basics:

The Grand Hyatt consists of nine floors of condominiums stacked atop a 1,000-room convention hotel — 19 floors of guest rooms above a four-story podium holding meeting rooms and other public spaces. The tower is confined to a narrow strip between East Market Street and the Lila Cockrell Theater, and the podium extends a convention-facilities wing south behind the theater's stagehouse. Parking is provided on five levels below ground.

The west end of the podium faces the Convention Center's lagoon, part of the 1968 extension of the River Walk. Jutting west from that face is the project's best architectural feature — a four-story portal of limestone-clad panels leading to the theater entrance.

The tower comprises two offset slabs oriented parallel to Market Street, for a total width of 438 feet. The taller volume, flush with the podium, rises to near 352 feet (the rear volume is two stories lower). The mechanical and cooling tower above the elevator core brings the total height to nearly 427 feet.

So this is a high, very wide object, in effect a giant wall.

A giant wall can be interesting, even captivating, if it is richly articulated. But the Grand Hyatt's exterior, a combination of clear glass and cast-concrete panels, with bits of subtle color on metal panels, is essentially flat. The plaid-like pattern of materials on the tower emphasizes verticality and horizontality more or less equally, especially on the guest-room floors, and robs the whole of a sense of direction.

The podium is more dynamic, with a nicely modulated rhythm of precast panels on the three levels above the street and a muted rainbow of color on metal spandrels. The street level itself, however, is a march of uniform columns, with the enclosed space set back behind the auto entrance.

The original version, proposed as a hotel only, was about 100 feet taller — it would have been the city's second-tallest building, behind the Tower of the Americas — and about a third narrower.

It read as two slender towers of glass, joined at one corner, with bold belts of color on the spandrels. The palette was cool blue, green and yellow on the eastern volume, under a wedgelike hat with an aqua roof; and hot red, violet and gold on the western volume, under a flat red roof.

There was nothing particularly exotic or groundbreaking about that scheme. With the partial exception of the use of color, intended to express San Antonio's historic role as a bridge between U.S. and Mexican cultures, it was standard-issue International Modernism.

But that design had clarity and conviction, and it would have become a signature building on the skyline as strong in its own way as the Tower Life Building, the queen of San Antonio's golden age of skyscrapers.

It was not to be. A few months after it was unveiled, the original concept was jettisoned and the first iteration of the new one emerged.

What happened?

First, when the City Council selected Faulkner's proposal over two others in February 2005, the council urged inclusion of the residential component that the developer had listed as an option in the winning bid. The expansion of the program changed the project's economics, increasing its cost and — in a market where high-end downtown condominiums were not yet a slam-dunk — its exposure to risk.

In the real world, as opposed to the optimistic realm of conceptual drawings, big convention hotels, even without condominiums above them, seldom are anything to write home about, architecturally.

The economics of such projects basically dictate bulky, balky boxes, and money for visual excitement is most likely to be directed to the interior public spaces.

(It may be relevant to note that a 1997 proposal for a large convention hotel on the same site — a handsome Gothamesque tiered skyscraper by Brennan Beer Gorman Architects of New York and Ford, Powell & Carson of San Antonio — failed to attract financing.)

Moreover, in both construction and operation, larger floorplates are more cost-effective than smaller ones, and shorter buildings are less expensive than taller ones.

All those factors tended to make the building wider and lower than the original concept.

The second thing to be said is that the developer, Faulkner USA, has a track record for architectural timidity. Compared to Faulkner's deadly dull Hilton Austin (which also has condo units above a convention hotel), the San Antonio project looks almost spiffy.

Third, the city's Historic and Design Review Commission played an unhelpful role by fretting over insignificant details and vague dissatisfaction that the design was not "uniquely San Antonio," while failing to define what that might mean.

A telling change in the exterior treatment occurred in the month before the commission granted final design approval on June 21, after months of haggling with the architects.

The architects had pulled the project off the commission's May 17 agenda and agreed to work with its architectural committee once again to amend the design.

The changes reflected in the version approved in June were exceedingly modest. One was the addition of horizontal bands of color on the podium, a clear improvement.

Another was a change in color on metal panels that formed vertical dotted lines on the tower. In the rendering presented in May, those vertical stripes were bold yellow and orange. In June, they had changed to dull beige and brown.

The orange in the May rendering was not quite orange, but rather a color that matched the legendary Stacy Penners tangerine dress shoe, a San Antonio classic.

The fade to beige represented a missed opportunity to bring a distinctive San Antonio attitude to a generally weak tower facade.

Tangerines saunter. Beige just walks, like any pedestrian.

[kornbread]

:previous:
I can't beleive they nixed the color from the verticals and replaced them with beige.
That just kills me:dead:

[GrandHyatt]

This is article is a joke. It's obvious Mike Greenberg does not have his facts straight or he interviewed unreliable sources. I contacted the architect's and design/builder and Mike Greenberg did not contact them for information pertaining to this article. I wonder how much Zachary paid him to write this negative article.

[kornbread]

This is article is a joke. It's obvious Mike Greenberg does not have his facts straight or he interviewed unreliable sources. I contacted the architect's and design/builder and Mike Greenberg did not contact them for information pertaining to this article. I wonder how much Zachary paid him to write this negative article.
The article is a critique of the design. :shrug: What part of it is a joke? What part of it is negative (as opposed to he doesn't care for the building)? Are you talking about the "what happened section"? Regardless of how accurate those details are, This is the final design. This is what is being built.

It's his opinion and that opinion is shared by many who have posted here. If you find an article proclaiming what a wonderful building this hotel is, please post it.

[21bl0wed]

The tower comprises two offset slabs oriented parallel to Market Street, for a total width of 438 feet. The taller volume, flush with the podium, rises to near 352 feet (the rear volume is two stories lower). The mechanical and cooling tower above the elevator core brings the total height to nearly 427 feet.




WOW so basically the building is 352 feet tall. The mechanical tower, im not even going to count since it only takes up a small portion of the total roofspace, (who knows how far away we'll even be able to see this part from)
But 352 feet? Geez thats shorter than the hilton convention center hotel in austin.

This was our one chance at a decent sized building. And knowing how san antonio is, there will probably not be another oppurtunity to build another building with significant height till about 15-20 years down the road from now. I'm very sad. :( :( :(

Oh yeah it's also wider than it is tall...What a joke!@

[KevinFromTexas]

Good article. Well, I think the design and review board really screwed up here. They made it so difficult for a mutual agreement to be reached on what was "uniquely San Antonio" and with no direction with details about what made for a uniquely San Antonio style of architecture and took so long to do it that the start date of this thing had already arrived. It was too late to change it by then. The architects then had no choice but to hurry the design through. In a rush to get it done they neglected to take care to make it attractive. I also blame FaulknerUSA and the architects on this. Shame on them. San Antonio deserved MUCH better than this. I'm pissed.

I hope those people in the seat at the Design & Review board get the boot. They were so fixed on worrying about making it look like San Antonio that the time to do it had already come. At the very least they should now focus their energy on drafting a plan on what is "uniquely San Antonio" because I agree, this is not it.

This is article is a joke. It's obvious Mike Greenberg does not have his facts straight or he interviewed unreliable sources. I contacted the architect's and design/builder and Mike Greenberg did not contact them for information pertaining to this article. I wonder how much Zachary paid him to write this negative article.

GrandHyatt, can you put me in touch with your contact that you had? I'd like to get a few more details about the building for Emporis. I tried emailing the architects, and FaulknerUSA but, I haven't gotten a reply from them yet.

[21bl0wed]

I hope those people in the seat at the Design & Review board get the boot. They were so fixed on worrying about making it look like San Antonio that the time to do it had already come. At the very least they should now focus their energy on drafting a plan on what is "uniquely San Antonio" because I agree, this is not it.


I agree 100%, of all people, the people on that board should have given the architects a good understanding of what is "uniquely san antonio." Lets hope that this doesn't turn out to be yet another problem in the future with any upcoming big projects. I'm surprised vidorra didn't run into any conflicts. They really do need to have an outline of what is uniquely SA and show it to architects designing future buildings. I bet if you go around the city and ask native San Antonians what they think about this building design not one will say it says "san antonio"

:hell: :hell:

[KevinFromTexas]

Mark Greenberg, the writer of that article, replied to my email I sent him, here's what he said.

Thanks for your note. I got my diensional info from elevation drawings
presented to the Historic and Design Review Commission.

[21bl0wed]

Mark Greenberg, the writer of that article, replied to my email I sent him, here's what he said.

what did your email say?

[DepecheMatt]

:jester: Well one thing I will give "The Wall", credit for is being better looking than Faulkner's Southwest style piece of crap of of I35. However that's still something not to be proud of. Well I guess the site finally did get it's wall after that NAD bank fiasco back in the early 90's near the same site as this hotel.

[KevinFromTexas]

what did your email say?

Here it is.

Hello, I read your article about the new Grand Hyatt in San Antonio, and I
concur! As a fan of architecture and skyscrapers, and having been born in San
Antonio and loving the place, I am so diappointed with its design. San Antonio
deserves much better.

I'm an editor with Emporis Buildings, (Emporis.com). Visit the San Antonio page
here: http://www.emporis.com/en/wm/ci/?id=101035

I had tried to contact Arquitectonica, FaulknerUSA and Kell-Munoz Architects
about the heights and other specs on the building last week but, I haven't
gotten a reply back. Emporis lists buildings with their heights including main
roof, mechanical penthouse, top floor height as well as sizes, widths and
lengths. I saw those figures in your article Sunday and thought I'd ask you
who was your contact for the building? I was in San Antonio yesterday for a
dogshow at the convention center and wanted to visit the construction site and
try and get the heights from there but they weren't working on the building
Sunday.

I enjoyed your article, it was informative and it echoed my sentiments exactly.

Thanks.

Sincerely,
Kevin Lehnhardt of Austin, Texas - Editor at Emporis.com.

[GrandHyatt]

Rick Macias is a Super on the job for FaulknerUSA

[texboy]

Anybody driven by the site lately?

[21bl0wed]

Anybody driven by the site lately?

I was there yesterday. ALL the dirt is gone now finally. They were in the process of closing market street down to just 1 lane (traffic was horrible)...Bowie street from commerce to market was closed. And As for the actual progress..They are still just workin on the second level of the parking garage...so they have 3 more levels to go till street level...

[starvinggryphon]

The tower from La Cascada II is finally down and now there are only 3 large cranes on the skyline. Any idea when the next project breaks ground?

[jaga185]

^^^ this fall with Vidorra tower 1

[texboy]

yea supposedly Vidorra will break ground in about a month and a half here.

[21bl0wed]

I don't know if vidorra is gonna break ground within the next month or two...It looks like it won't be till oct/nov

http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=110717

Some of the members called the sales office..

[ryan5021]

Shouldn't Piazza San Lorenzo break ground soon? I believe the Marriott Courtyard will be starting this fall too although they haven't begun tearing down the old St. Mary's School yet. Does anyone know when the Embassy Suites will start?

[jaga185]

they will start this fall, I visited the office on Tuesday, exactly when this fall is still unclear but they have sold 50% of tower1, and once 80% is sold, they will start construction of tower2.