[ThreeHundred]

O0o0o..pretty.

[LAMetroGuy]

54 floors, I hope that is the final official count... terrific news!

[BrighamYen]

I hope they don't lose any of the proposed jumbotrons and massive billboards that would give it an electrified personality missing from LA on a bigger scale. Hollywood and Highland is smallish, so I believe we need something BIG! If Alex Padilla is going to call Times Square the LA Live of the East, there had better be a lot of fucking billboards and flashy lights everywhere because I was just in Times Square a few days ago and that is THE PLACE if you want to see lights (outside of Vegas of course). We need to be MORE garish and bold in LA and not pretend that we're somehow some kind of architecturally superior city that snubs at "Vegas-styled" features for our buildings. AS IF leaving our dim streets the way they are, lacking any creative signages, is "better."

I'm starting to feel like I'm as obsessed over adding more electronic billboards as citywatch is over removing utility poles!

[citywatch]

I'm starting to feel like I'm as obsessed over adding more electronic billboards as citywatch is over removing utility poles!
LOL. And when you were in NYC you may (or may not) have noticed, but a person would need a microscrope to see even an inch of that crud in Manhattan, whereas here in LA even a blind/deaf/mute person can say, damn, there sure are alot of fugly poles all over this town-----like directly north of the LA Live site, right around the scroungy small bldgs located between 9th St & Olympic.

[citywatch]

Sounds like LA Live's condos will be competing head on for homebuyers (who have a lot of $$) with Rodmark's proposed City House & Olympic towers:


KB Urban, AEG Announce Marriott Marquis Hotel, Ritz-Carlton and The Residences at The Ritz-Carlton for L.A. Live Development in Downtown Los Angeles

LOS ANGELES--(BUSINESS WIRE)--June 13, 2006---KB Urban, the high-density, mixed-use subsidiary of KB Home, one of the nation's premier homebuilders and AEG, one of the leading sports and entertainment presenters in the world, today announced an agreement with Marriott International, Inc. to open two luxury hotel properties and private residences at the L.A. Live sports and entertainment district currently under construction in downtown Los Angeles.

Marriott Hotel Services, Inc. will be the exclusive hotel operator of the Los Angeles Marriott Marquis and The Ritz-Carlton Hotel Company, LLC, a wholly owned subsidiary of Marriott International, will manage The Ritz-Carlton Hotel, Los Angeles. KB Urban and AEG are co-developers of the approximately 2 million square foot property.

Under the terms of the agreement, the complex will include the Los Angeles Marriott Marquis, an 876-room property, which will serve as the headquarters hotel of The Los Angeles Convention Center, and The Ritz-Carlton, Los Angeles, a 124-room boutique hotel. Above the hotels, and towering over the downtown Los Angeles skyline, will be approximately 216 residential condominiums developed by KB Urban known as The Residences at The Ritz-Carlton, Los Angeles. The sales center is scheduled to open in the first quarter of 2007. Opening dates for the properties are scheduled for 2010.

The hotel and residential complex will be housed in an architecturally stunning, Gensler-designed 54-story tower, which will serve as a beacon for L.A. Live. Hotel guests and condominium residents will be at the center of an energetic, world-class sports and entertainment campus, mere steps from STAPLES Center, 7,100-seat Nokia Theater Los Angeles, a 15-screen, 3,800-seat Regal Cineplex, which will include an 800-seat premiere presentation theater, The Grammy(R) Museum and numerous premier restaurants, nightclubs and cafes, and minutes away from Southern California's world-renowned museums and arts institutions, cultural centers, universities, and concert halls.

"We are very pleased and excited to be selected as the hotel component of L.A. Live, one of the largest and most important downtown developments to take place anywhere in the country over the next few years," said J. W. Marriott, Jr., chairman and CEO of Marriott International, Inc. "We look forward to working with our partners AEG and KB Urban to bring the world-class service and luxury experiences of our Ritz-Carlton and Marriott brands to what surely will be a total experience like no other at L.A. Live."

The Residences at The Ritz-Carlton, Los Angeles will include approximately 216 luxuriously appointed private condominiums, ranging from one to four bedrooms. Owners of The Residences will be afforded access to many of the legendary services and world-class amenities of The Ritz-Carlton, such as concierge, valet, housekeeping and in-room catering services. Conceptual plans also include a soaring two-story sky lobby on the 36th floor, a private elevator entree to The Residences, a library, multi-seat home theater and a spa with a fitness center. Additionally, the benefits of ownership will include VIP access to events at STAPLES Center, Nokia Theater Los Angeles and Club Nokia, as well as other special events at entertainment venues owned and operated by AEG around the world.

"KB Urban and AEG's partnership with The Ritz-Carlton and Marriott Hotel brands represents a significant milestone for L.A. Live and for the City of Los Angeles," said KB Urban President Jeffrey M. Gault, AIA. "The prestige of owning a luxury condominium, with Ritz-Carlton amenities and attentiveness, in the heart of downtown Los Angeles, will be tremendously enticing to those who live in the U.S., as well as those who live abroad but spend a considerable amount of time in Southern California." Continued Gault, "For this buyer, a home at The Ritz-Carlton Residences is about needs anticipated, privacy ensured and living a vibrant lifestyle in the center of one of the world's greatest cities. L.A. Live will offer those unforgettable experiences with dining, live entertainment, sporting events and much more."

Situated atop the Los Angeles Marriott Marquis, The Ritz-Carlton, Los Angeles will offer stunning views of the city skyline. The luxury hotel will feature an outdoor rooftop swimming pool and terrace above a two-story lobby on the 24th floor. A gourmet restaurant and bar will be adjacent to the lobby. The Los Angeles Marriott Marquis will occupy 18 floors, and offer an array of meeting spaces, including the largest ballroom in the city, with capacity for up to 3,000 seated guests. A restaurant, fitness center, and day spa are just some of the special amenities planned for the site.

"This is an extremely momentous agreement not only for L.A. Live but for the Los Angeles Convention Center and the City of Los Angeles as well," said Timothy J. Leiweke, president and CEO of AEG. "The commitment from Marriott International, considered to be the most knowledgeable company on convention center 'headquarters hotels' and their Marriott Marquis and The Ritz Carlton brands, clearly verifies the industry's excitement and enthusiasm for downtown Los Angeles, the convention center and L.A. Live. This incredible property will both energize the Los Angeles convention marketplace, while serving as a central component of L.A. Live, the most significant development ever undertaken in Los Angeles. On behalf of AEG and our partners at KB Urban, we thank the Marriott and The Ritz-Carlton organizations for their commitment to this groundbreaking venture and their commitment to the future of our City."

Peter Remedios, president and managing principal of Remedios Siembieda, Inc., will design the interior spaces for The Ritz-Carlton Hotel, Los Angeles and The Residences at The Ritz-Carlton, Los Angeles. The world-renowned firm has designed hotel interiors, restaurants and spas at such picturesque properties as the Grand Hyatt in Tokyo and Beijing, Four Seasons New York, L'Ermitage Beverly Hills, Mandarin Oriental Hong Kong, and many more throughout North America, Asia, Europe and the Middle East.

Cheryl Rowley, principal of Cheryl Rowley Design, has been selected to design the interior spaces for the Los Angles Marriott Marquis. Rowley's award-winning firm has designed hotels, spas, country clubs and restaurants in such locales as the Four Seasons Buenos Aires, Ojai Valley Inn & Spa, The Ritz-Carlton San Francisco, Hotel Monaco in Washington, DC and others across the globe.

[LosAngelesSportsFan]

im guessing some of those penthouses might fetch 10 million or more. I better start saving. Imagine swimming on the roof of the sucker!! wow.

Sales center early 2007, and i really dont see any reason not to start construction around the same time, especially since the land is graded, the parking lot is being built and i imagine as soon as the parking structure is done, they will start on this.

[citywatch]

I better start saving.Hey, I thought you were putting aside dollars for a place at Astani's 8th & Grand proj. Fickle! :D

But seriously, there are so many condo & apt bldgs or projs in DT, either existing or under construction (or soon to be under construction), each with an interesting niche or advantage that it'd be hard picking & choosing among them.

I can't say the same thing about many other hoods where houses, condos & apts all seem like one big blur, connected to one big garage or cul de sac, X number of blocks from the nearest fwy onramp, & where the most worthwhile place to walk to is a nearby Dennys, Taco Bell or some shopping mall that's surrounded by acres of parking lots.

[LosAngelesSportsFan]

im looking at the Convention center condo as an investment, second home type of thing. ya right. ;)

[BrighamYen]

Reading about this has really made me excited about LA again! Especially the quality of designers AEG/Marriot has chosen to handle the two hotels. After looking over the history of their designs, I am confident that they'll do a fantastic job here! Imagine "wowing" a businessperson from Tokyo or New York or London or Hong Kong? It seems like we're finally getting closer to becoming a true world-class urban city that's more sophisticated and mature. I have to repeat! I AM SO GLAD RITZ CARLTON WILL BE LOCATED IN DOWNTOWN LA!!!

[bobcat]

I think adding a prestigious name like Ritz Carlton to LA Live will also put pressure on Related's Grand Avenue project to bring in some "WOW" tenants if they don't wish to be overshadowed by the AEG development.

[BrighamYen]

^ A W Hotel would definitely be up there in hip factor. I would actually like to see another Four Seasons in Downtown LA, even though the one in Beverly Hills is actually in the city of LA. But it's common place to see multiple establishments by the same name in Manhattan, so LA being as spread out as it is, shouldn't have a problem supporting distinct markets.

Hotel Gansevoort in NYC is awesome. At night, the columns are illuminated with a purple hue, and it feels very "W" inside. I am wondering how the one in LA will look like. I really hope they can get the variance they need to be exempt from the setbacks. LBU mentioned why do we still have suburban zoning in Downtown LA?

It would also be nice to get some more boutique hotels like Viceroy and Maison 140 from KOR.

We are getting a pretty cool hotel soon called "Orchid Hotel" (I was involved with helping them find tenants for their retail/restaurant when I was at the DCBID). It'll be right across the street from the Gas Company Lofts and Ralphs. It'll be pretty cool having frosted/opaque glass in the front, with an underground lounge/club, spa, and restaurant. They even told me that every person who stays there will receive complimentary Mini Cooper rental!

[bobcat]

Firm to run pair of hotels
BY RICK ORLOV, Staff Writer
LA Daily News

Capping an eight-month search, officials announced Tuesday that Marriott International Inc. will operate two luxury hotels and condominiums as part of a 54-story high rise touted as the linchpin of a $2.5 billion retail-entertainment complex aimed at revitalizing downtown.

The hotel's cost will be partially offset with up to $300 million in public financing through a loan, tax breaks and fee waivers. It's seen as the last major project to complement the la live complex being developed across from Staples Center and the ailing Los Angeles Convention Center.

Even as they announced the deal, officials with developer AEG, owner of Staples Center, said they also are close to a deal for a third hotel in the area that would bring as many as 350 more rooms to help fuel ambitious plans for the downtown site.

"We are close to getting a deal for another hotel in the area and we are developing plans to make la live the event capital of the world," AEG President Tim Lieweke said. "We are looking at all the major events that are held in other markets and we are going to go after them."

Officials would not reveal details about the possible third hotel, but said plans for the Marriott properties include an 876-room hotel to be operated as the Los Angeles Marriott Marquis and serve as the headquarters hotel for the Convention Center.

The Marriott Marquis, one of only three being developed by the company, will take up 18 floors and have a ballroom that can seat 3,000 people.

Marriott's wholly owned subsidiary, The Ritz-Carlton Hotel Co., will open a 124-room boutique hotel as part of the complex. Both are scheduled to open in 2010.

The development also will include 216 luxury condominiums on the upper levels of the skyscraper to be built by KB Urban Homes, a partner with AEG in developing the property.

Known as The Residences at The Ritz-Carlton, the condos will be separated from the main hotel by a two-story lobby at the 36th floor that will feature a library, theater and spa with a fitness center.

Mayor Antonio Villaraigosa called the project the culmination of a 10-year dream to bring a Convention Center hotel to the city.

"This is the linchpin of all we've been working for," he said at a late-afternoon news conference. "With la live, this sends a message to the world that L.A. is alive, and we will continue to grow everywhere we can."

Councilwoman Jan Perry, who represents the area, said the hotels will help sustain downtown growth and help the Convention Center attract larger meetings.

"We need this hotel if we are going to make the Convention Center profitable," Perry said. "A downtown convention hotel is what we've been told we need."

Leiweke said he was pleased with the Marriott deal.

"We weren't sure what we would get in the way of bids and we received great offers from four firms," Lieweke said. "From our perspective, this brand name is the best we could have hoped for with our plans for la live and Staples."

The deal comes after AEG late last year formed a partnership with KB Urban to develop the property after Apollo Real Estate Advisors pulled out.

With a downtown housing boom and construction under way on the la live complex - the first facilities are scheduled to open next year - Lieweke said the project is becoming an easier sell and could lure even larger attractions to Los Angeles.

The la live project is the second phase of what AEG and its owner, Philip Anschutz, agreed to when they won the right to build Staples Center. Part of that agreement called for development of a commercial retail-entertainment complex on the land across from the arena.

[BrighamYen]

AEG President Tim Lieweke said. "We are looking at all the major events that are held in other markets and we are going to go after them."

I love that kind of attitude! It's the kind of New Yorker attitude that is about pride and having higher standards. Screw the old mentality of LA that we're not able to do great things. Kudos to Lieweke and Villaraigosa. :)

With a downtown housing boom and construction under way on the la live complex - the first facilities are scheduled to open next year - Lieweke said the project is becoming an easier sell and could lure even larger attractions to Los Angeles.

I hope this means that we can start attracting Broadway shows and others like Cirque du Soleil.

Another third hotel is VERY exciting news!!! Could it be a collaboration with KOR? Or perhaps another Four Seasons? I would actually like to see St. Regis returning to LA again, this time in Downtown instead of Century City. I mean, AEG did say they had talks with Starwood that owns St. Regis and Sheraton (that's already in Downtown LA). I believe the third hotel will be across the street on Olympic next to the car wash.

[citywatch]

Even as they announced the deal, officials with developer AEG, owner of Staples Center, said they also are close to a deal for a third hotel in the area that would bring as many as 350 more rooms to help fuel ambitious plans for the downtown site.
Whaddyah know, the article from the LADN, which often has an anti-DT bias, adds more detail only hinted at in the LA Times story. Glad to read its report too because I thought talk about a 3rd hotel still was only tentative at this time.

I guess the other hotel would sit north of Olympic Bl, which means all the hovels around there really do need to be cleared out ASAP.

Some have complained about the car wash at the corner of Fig & Olympic, but I think things like the auto repair shop farther west, next to the fwy, are even worse. And with even more hotel rms needing to be filled per night, it's going to be that much more important to convince ppl that DT is as good, if not better, than other hoods in LA.

When ppl like the traveler quoted in the LAT says "the area could be cleaned up", that's another indication that additional operators of bulldozers have got to be brought in & put to work.

[colemonkee]

^ I actually don't mind the car wash being there. I just had a problem with one of their staff members stealing change out of my car before I had a chance to tip him.

[LosAngelesSportsFan]

wow, what a week. and today we find out about a new 42 story tower by CIM and possibly a third hotel at LA Live. i could definitly imagine it at 40 - 50 stories as well.

[Westsidelife]

^ A W Hotel would definitely be up there in hip factor. I would actually like to see another Four Seasons in Downtown LA, even though the one in Beverly Hills is actually in the city of LA. But it's common place to see multiple establishments by the same name in Manhattan, so LA being as spread out as it is, shouldn't have a problem supporting distinct markets.

Hotel Gansevoort in NYC is awesome. At night, the columns are illuminated with a purple hue, and it feels very "W" inside. I am wondering how the one in LA will look like. I really hope they can get the variance they need to be exempt from the setbacks. LBU mentioned why do we still have suburban zoning in Downtown LA?

It would also be nice to get some more boutique hotels like Viceroy and Maison 140 from KOR.

We are getting a pretty cool hotel soon called "Orchid Hotel" (I was involved with helping them find tenants for their retail/restaurant when I was at the DCBID). It'll be right across the street from the Gas Company Lofts and Ralphs. It'll be pretty cool having frosted/opaque glass in the front, with an underground lounge/club, spa, and restaurant. They even told me that every person who stays there will receive complimentary Mini Cooper rental!

I've always thought that a W hotel would be the best choice for LA Live because it's more hip. That or something like Westin. That's why I was a little worried when I first heard that the Ritz Carlton was going to be part of LA Live. One of my main concerns is that our downtown won't flow like a traditional downtown.

While we talk about hotels, here's what I think:

Peninsula
St. Regis
Four Seasons
Ritz Carlton
W Hotel
Westin
Marriott
Hilton
Inter-Continental

As for shops, I'm sure LA Live and Grand Avenue will feature more of the middle-upper middle class type boutiques as you refer to it.

[Westsidelife]

My plan for DLTA:

LA Live- Time Square like with lots of neon and billboards, popular shops like Gap, Sephora, Express, etc. Restaurants such as Fox Sports Grill

South Park- Soho like; trendy area with lots of restaurants, shops, and residential units of all sizes and price ranges

Grand Avenue/Bunker Hill- Millenium Park in Chicago like. I'm pretty sure the Civic Park will be VERY similar to Millenium Park because they will serve as centers, have plenty of areas to sit/eat, and have edgy architecture (both have Gehry structures in the area with similar designs). The Grand Avenue project with more higher end stores such as J. Crew, Banana Republic, Coach, Abercrombie and Fitch, etc. with eating establishments like Spago, Olives, Corner Bakery, Grand Lux Cafe, Cheesecake Factory Starbucks, bakeries, etc. A good hotel for the project would be something like a Inter-Continental

Financial District- More Fortune 500 companies headquartered there with plenty of office space and mostly office space

Historic Core- Turn Broadway into more of a theater district...less 'wholesale' like. More residential high-rises with all sizes and price ranges

Border of Financial District and Historic Core- 'Luxury' District with hotels such as Four Seasons, Peninsula, St. Regis, Ritz Carlton. Stores such as Barneys, Saks, Neimans, Tiffanys, etc. Restaurants similar to Grand Avenue

Adjacent to LA River- Parks, residential high-rises, and jogging trails along the river

Chinatown- More open air markets? Idk

City West: Expansion of South Park?

Some other things I might add:

Rail stations throughout downtown, taxis, buses, no more open parking lots, and build on the existing Union Station...

Have I been analyzing this too much?

[tujunga]

^ I actually don't mind the car wash being there. I just had a problem with one of their staff members stealing change out of my car before I had a chance to tip him.

Oh my god the car wash guy gets blamed again:shrug:

[BrighamYen]

My plan for DLTA:

LA Live- Time Square like with lots of neon and billboards, popular shops like Gap, Sephora, Express, etc. Restaurants such as Fox Sports Grill

South Park- Soho like; trendy area with lots of restaurants, shops, and residential units of all sizes and price ranges

Grand Avenue/Bunker Hill- Millenium Park in Chicago like. I'm pretty sure the Civic Park will be VERY similar to Millenium Park because they will serve as centers, have plenty of areas to sit/eat, and have edgy architecture (both have Gehry structures in the area with similar designs). The Grand Avenue project with more higher end stores such as J. Crew, Banana Republic, Coach, Abercrombie and Fitch, etc. with eating establishments like Spago, Olives, Corner Bakery, Grand Lux Cafe, Cheesecake Factory Starbucks, bakeries, etc. A good hotel for the project would be something like a Inter-Continental

Financial District- More Fortune 500 companies headquartered there with plenty of office space and mostly office space

Historic Core- Turn Broadway into more of a theater district...less 'wholesale' like. More residential high-rises with all sizes and price ranges

Border of Financial District and Historic Core- 'Luxury' District with hotels such as Four Seasons, Peninsula, St. Regis, Ritz Carlton. Stores such as Barneys, Saks, Neimans, Tiffanys, etc. Restaurants similar to Grand Avenue

Adjacent to LA River- Parks, residential high-rises, and jogging trails along the river

Chinatown- More open air markets? Idk

City West: Expansion of South Park?

Some other things I might add:

Rail stations throughout downtown, taxis, buses, no more open parking lots, and build on the existing Union Station...

Have I been analyzing this too much?


One thing very different about Downtown LA compared to Manhattan is that we have a dearth of retail spaces. ALMOST every single block on Manhattan has retail space (small or large). The only place similar to NY in LA is Broadway and the numbered streets. Otherwise, if you look at South Park or the Financial District, you're lacking retail space. You see a lot of walls and glass. That's not going to help when all residential development include driveways for underground parking. The driveway takes away a chunk of retail frontage away. What could have been a nifty Melrose/Soho-ish kind of shop...well, it's a driveway. I know it's mandatory and part of city code, but it's going to hurt retail diversity when there aren't enough spaces. If you look at Spring St., that is one sad case. There's like probably 10-15 retail spaces on the whole fucking street (ok, maybe a little more). LA addiction for the car and the privatization of public amenities (such as private pocket parks, etc. that should be provided by the city) is constraining our future potential for a thriving urban center.

[Westsidelife]

But South Park is very undeveloped and we have the most options there. I see your point, I didn't realize the situation.

[BrighamYen]

^ Yeah, look at Met Lofts and Grand Lofts, etc. Met has SOME retail space, but the parking structure on Hope St. has zero. Hope St. Village has zero retail space and Grand Lofts has none as well. And then they're talking about putting a parking structure in back of Grand Lofts? lol Sure, where's the retail to promote/generate pedestrian activity? I doubt they're going to include retail space for their structure. Does anyone think South's Evo/Luma/Elleven limited retail space is really going to feel the same as Soho's ubiquitous retail stock? Downtown is going to be come a microcosm of the rest of LA County. You'll have a mall-ish type center like LA Live and Grand Avenue Project.

One of the main problems is because LA's fucked up code includes retail space in the FAR. So a developer really gets financially turned off when retail takes away from their condo portion. LA NEEDS TO REVISE ITS ARCHAIC CODES!!!

[citywatch]

^ LAB, there are even quite a few streets in NYC, such as on the upper east side, that contain nothing but apt or condo bldgs, with little to no spaces set aside for retail. I only mention that because keeping small stores profitable can be tough, at least beyond a few yrs. Look at Tom Gilmore's struggles to fill ground floor spaces in his OBD bldgs. And there are even parts of 5th Ave in Manhattan where some spaces have been vacant or stuck with low margin stores for a long time.

[Westsidelife]

http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/4544/dsc00056edited9xu.jpg


The problem is that they're not willing to change and we're still promoting use of the car. Downtown LA like any other downtown should be more of a pedestrian friendly destination. IMO, instead of building structrues like Evo/Elleven/Luma, we need to build flats like the ones above. This not only promotes density, but the lack of a parking structure encourages people to walk more and isn't that what most people living in downtown are going to do-stay in downtown? Anyways, we shouldn't really have a parking structure for each project. And if we have those type of flats, we can make room for more retail/commercial space because those flats won't have a lobby and a fitness center do you know what I'm saying? The flats IMO will give the urbanity DTLA currently lacks and maybe people should just walk down the street to a Bally Total Fitness instead of a fitness center in their building. That is a more 'urban thing' to do. So by eliminating parking structures, we allow more room for retail space, encourage people to get off their lazy asses, and create a downtown that is more pedestrian friendly and that is a major component to any successful downtown. Also, I hate that LA Live and Grand Avenue will have more a mall like atmosphere. I was hoping for something more like Time Square for LA live where everything is right off the street...then again setting back the structures will allow for open gathering spaces with plenty of room to walk...

[katfam]

IMO, instead of building structrues like Evo/Elleven/Luma, we need to build flats like the ones above. This not only promotes density, but the lack of a parking structure encourages people to walk more and isn't that what most people living in downtown are going to do-stay in downtown?


First, I have to strongly disagree as I don't think you know much about Elleven/Luma/Evo. Yes, our parking is part of this building (no external garages) but this development is much more. Their whole idea is a place to walk around. They will have lots of ground floor retail and restaurants, a mid block park and happens to be built 2 blocks from the Ralphs Market and LA Live. I think the car culture in LA is fading but it takes time. You can't just build a project with no parking and expect people to survive for another 2-5 years before anything is opened in this area. As a Elleven resident I will be doing all the walking I can, but I will still need my car because until you get a subway system that works in this city people will drive. Buses are much different than subways...and i think most car drivers in LA agree.

Second, that building in the picture isn't the most attractive structure. It looks like a generic stucco building that has little design built in. Take a look at South Group's projects...they are Green Certified buildings which make it more energy efficect. Floor to ceiling glass windows for each unit and wide open sidewalks which will be filled with retail, restaurants and life. The building in your picture doesn't seem to have any reason to walk by it other than to pass it.

[LongBeachUrbanist]

A big part of the equation is alleys. The alleys in DTLA are inconsistently used, and in fact are disappearing.

Alleys provide delivery access, parking access and pedestrian circulation. NYC and other major cities are full of alleys. I would argue, high-densities like Manhattan are not possible without a good alley system.

Look at how well the promenade area of Santa Monica uses its alleys. Deliveries are made in rear, taxis use them as cut-through routes, trash is removed there, people use them to access the parking structures, etc.

In DTLA, the dominant model is to turn the development inward, rather than outward. So, the parking/trash/exhaust access is all on the outside. The inside, where an alley would go, is reserved for courtyard.

This is short-term thinking, and I don't entirely blame the developers. Given DTLA's rep for homeless etc., they're afraid to include alleys in their fancy developments. But I would say it is short-sighted thinking. DTLA is not forever going to be a scary place, but Downtown is going to be stuck with driveways, blank walls, exhaust ducts, etc. along its streets for a long, long time, as long as alleys are excluded from the plans.

[BTinSF]

Alleys are one thing (and from my experience in SF, they aren't much of an issue regarding the homeless who avoid them because there's not enough opportunity to panhandle), but does LA require ground floor retail in new buildings? I ask because although I haven't been there in a while, last time I was there there didn't seem to be any reason to walk because there wasn't anything to see or do between the parking lot and my destination. I love walking in SF--it's my primary form of exercise--because the people watching is great, but to attract lots of people on the sidewalks you have to have lots of reasons for them to be there, i.e. retail.

[Steve2726]

I would argue, high-densities like Manhattan are not possible without a good alley system.



I don't believe this is accurate regarding Manhattan having a good alley system. In many neighborhoods, there is always garbage piled high curbside at night awaiting pickup due to the lack of alleys.

http://www.capedmaskedandarmed.com/justin/nyc4/trash-flash.jpg
http://storage.msn.com/x1pjiWC4JhxAl3AcqqUkjcTzFkJiaDX1Ue9M5hjTK0BLIYvlW-XN0ePqxlfy16FhgmM009CnZmAnQU5ONcJbwwFMFgXUMxeC18ncVrwM5OMvZSv4hYwnWRJgD4aRiHguFE6Us9ufV13QlBsuolTt_hl3w

[LAMetroGuy]

I've always thought that a W hotel would be the best choice for LA Live because it's more hip. That or something like Westin. That's why I was a little worried when I first heard that the Ritz Carlton was going to be part of LA Live. One of my main concerns is that our downtown won't flow like a traditional downtown.

While we talk about hotels, here's what I think:

Peninsula
St. Regis
Four Seasons
Ritz Carlton
W Hotel
Westin
Marriott
Hilton
Inter-Continental

As for shops, I'm sure LA Live and Grand Avenue will feature more of the middle-upper middle class type boutiques as you refer to it.

You can now add Waldorf Astoria...

Hilton Plans Waldorf Expansion


The Waldorf=Astoria has stood at its Park Avenue location in New York for 75 years epitomizing luxury and grandeur.

Now, Hilton Hotels Corp. has its own grand plans for the iconic hotel – expanding the Waldorf name to a series of existing and new hotels across the country, including a lodging near Walt Disney World to be finished later this decade.

The question is: how far can the company go with an Old World property in a luxury sector where other hotels such as the Four Seasons have already spent years building customer loyalty?

“Everyone has asked, ‘How many of these (luxury hotels) can you do?’ The answer is we don’t really know,” acknowledged Matthew Hart, president and chief operating officer of Hilton, which has owned the Manhattan landmark since 1949.

That hasn’t stopped Beverly Hills-based Hilton from announcing ambitious plans, though.

Last January, the company said it was establishing the Waldorf=Astoria Collection, a group of high-end, independent properties that would pay a fee to use the legendary name and gain access to Hilton’s reservation system and other corporate benefits.

The iconic name could eventually be associated with around 50 properties, though so far the collection only comprises the Grand Wailea Resort Hotel & Spa in Maui, Hawaii; the Arizona Biltmore Resort & Spa in Phoenix, and the La Quinta Resort & Club in La Quinta.

But just a few weeks ago, Hilton went a step further and announced it would be constructing the first new Waldorf=Astoria from the ground up in Orlando, Fla., in an attempt to faithfully extend the singular hotel’s ambience and legendary name.

“There is a bigger opportunity for the Waldorf=Astoria Collection than for new Waldorf-Astorias,” Hart said.

[LAMetroGuy]

Also, a NY developer will develop the Fig Central site!~

New Yorkers Buying Downtown Land


The Moinian Group, one of New York’s largest landowners, is buying a prominent downtown property near the Staples Center.

Moinian has built several high-rise projects in Manhattan and the firm has recently begun buying property in downtown L.A.

Daphne Viders, a Moinian spokeswoman, confirmed there are negotiations but declined to provide further information on the pending transaction. Anschutz Entertainment Group, the majority owner of the Staples Center, is selling the land. AEG spokesman Michael Roth declined comment.

Even so, people familiar with the deal say Moinian is paying close to $75 million for a 4-acre surface parking lot bounded by Figueroa, Flower, 11th and 12th streets. The site already has approvals for a residential and retail project.

The transaction is expected to go non-refundable next month, the sources said.

Moinian isn’t the first developer to want the site and its towering project entitlements.

LNR Property Corp., a well-heeled commercial builder, fell out of contract to buy the parcel a few months ago.

:banana: :cheers: :banana:

[citywatch]

Even so, people familiar with the deal say Moinian is paying close to $75 million for a 4-acre surface parking lot bounded by Figueroa, Flower, 11th and 12th streets.
It's great there's that much interest from potential or actual buyers out there. However, a big mark up in land prices does concern me, because it means it's now even tougher for condo & certainly apt projs to pencil out. That $75 mil will have to tacked onto the price of each new condo. For example, if Monian's condo bldg or bldgs contain 300 units, each one automatically will be dinged for at least $250,000.

I know the devlpr of the Hanover tower at Fig & Olympic said they had a hard time getting funders to sign onto their proj & that a similar bldg today prob wouldn't even be possible.

[LAMetroGuy]

By the time these projects are completed, so much crane activity down there will be realized thus generating even more interest in the area as a place to live and play. this will more than likely justify the high prices and thus more development.

[ThreeHundred]

Dubai will be known as the Los Angeles of the Middle East.

Lol.

[BrighamYen]

However, a big mark up in land prices does concern me, because it means it's now even tougher for condo & certainly apt projs to pencil out. That $75 mil will have to tacked onto the price of each new condo.

Actually, LNR was paying more for the land at $80 million. Moinian is actually paying $5 million LESS.

And demand can be obviously generated by developing an area to be more attractive by adding things to do. But as I mentioned before, retail is lacking on the streets. Look at Olympic going east for instance. There is about, hmmm, 3 retail spaces: 1) Packard Lofts, 2) Renaissance Apt. Tower, 3) Reserve Lofts. That's it! Do you really think Downtown LA will be filled with people walking everywhere (like Manhattan) without that critical component? People in LA need to take a good look at NYC and learn and stop this "island bullshit mentality." Having 5 retails spaces at the South Group's project isn't going to do shit if that's the only project that has it. Manhattan is a collection of hundreds and hundreds of buildings with thousands and thousands of retail spaces.

[ucland]

hey how do you post pictures from your computer without using a url:

[katfam]

Yes i do think that their will people walking around certain parts of downtown but i think you need to give LA a few years. Yes there is open space now but you can't look at it that way. You have to understand all the projects that are coming online and how that will change the landscape of the surrounding area.


Actually, LNR was paying more for the land at $80 million. Moinian is actually paying $5 million LESS.

And demand can be obviously generated by developing an area to be more attractive by adding things to do. But as I mentioned before, retail is lacking on the streets. Look at Olympic going east for instance. There is about, hmmm, 3 retail spaces: 1) Packard Lofts, 2) Renaissance Apt. Tower, 3) Reserve Lofts. That's it! Do you really think Downtown LA will be filled with people walking everywhere (like Manhattan) without that critical component? People in LA need to take a good look at NYC and learn and stop this "island bullshit mentality." Having 5 retails spaces at the South Group's project isn't going to do shit if that's the only project that has it. Manhattan is a collection of hundreds and hundreds of buildings with thousands and thousands of retail spaces.

[ucland]

After months of reading your posts, I am finaly back in downtown and I took some pictures; however I do not know how to post them. Any help would be great. Thanks

[Westsidelife]

First, I have to strongly disagree as I don't think you know much about Elleven/Luma/Evo. Yes, our parking is part of this building (no external garages) but this development is much more. Their whole idea is a place to walk around. They will have lots of ground floor retail and restaurants, a mid block park and happens to be built 2 blocks from the Ralphs Market and LA Live. I think the car culture in LA is fading but it takes time. You can't just build a project with no parking and expect people to survive for another 2-5 years before anything is opened in this area. As a Elleven resident I will be doing all the walking I can, but I will still need my car because until you get a subway system that works in this city people will drive. Buses are much different than subways...and i think most car drivers in LA agree.

Second, that building in the picture isn't the most attractive structure. It looks like a generic stucco building that has little design built in. Take a look at South Group's projects...they are Green Certified buildings which make it more energy efficect. Floor to ceiling glass windows for each unit and wide open sidewalks which will be filled with retail, restaurants and life. The building in your picture doesn't seem to have any reason to walk by it other than to pass it.

As long as they have ground floor retail then that's fine with me. Although I still would like to see flats that are more "attractive structures."

[Easy]

After months of reading your posts, I am finaly back in downtown and I took some pictures; however I do not know how to post them. Any help would be great. Thanks

http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=95356

[ucland]

http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/ucla_nd/detail?.dir=c9e9scd&.dnm=d903scd.jpg&.src=ph http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/ucla_nd/detail?.dir=c9e9scd&.dnm=9fc1scd.jpg&.src=phhttp://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/ucla_nd/detail?.dir=c9e9scd&.dnm=7092scd.jpg&.src=ph

I hope I posted these photos right. Sorry about the quality, I am new to this.

[ucland]

http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/ucla_nd/detail?.dir=c9e9scd&.dnm=b379scd.jpg&.src=ph

[DJM19]

you have to put the first tag, then the URL, then the closing tag. Do that for each individual image URL. The first tag is and the closing tag is

and dont leave any spaces between the tags and the URL. so it would be url#1 url#2 (but without spaces)

[colemonkee]

I drove up Fig earlier today and there were a lot of concrete mixer trucks lined up on the street behind LA Live (is it Georgia?). Must be a pretty big pour going on there today.

[ucland]

http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/ucla_nd/detail?.dir=c9e9scd&.dnm=b379scd.jpg&.src=ph http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/ucla_nd/detail?.dir=c9e9scd&.dnm=f3f9scd.jpg&.src=phhttp://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/ucla_nd/detail?.dir=c9e9scd&.dnm=d903scd.jpg&.src=phhttp://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/ucla_nd/detail?.dir=c9e9scd&.dnm=f3f9scd.jpg&.src=ph

[ucland]

http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/ucla_nd/detail?.dir=c9e9scd&.dnm=f3f9scd.jpg&.src=ph

[ucland]

http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/ucla_nd/detail?.dir=c9e9scd&.dnm=d903scd.jpg&.src=ph

[ucland]

http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/ucla_nd/detail?.dir=c9e9scd&.dnm=d903scd.jpg&.src=ph

[ucland]

http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/ucla_nd/album?.dir=c9e9scd&.src=ph

here is the link I give up

[bobcat]

More about the LA Live hotel, and news of a possible Four Seasons near 7th/Figueroa. I wonder exactly where that's supposed to be.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hotels Please, But Hold the Condos
Construction of high-priced units may outpace buying pool

By keeley webster
CREJ Staff Writer
The lopsided development of for-sale housing in downtown Los Angeles targeting primarily the upper end of the market has frequently received criticism from a spectrum of market watchers.
Aside from the social justice aspects of not building housing for middle-class and lower-income Angelenos, some wonder how deep the high-end demand really is.
If the market for young professionals who can pay upward of $800,000 for one of the 17,000 condominiums in the pipeline, according to the Downtown Business Improvement District, is somewhat limited, then the buying pool for residents who can afford a unit in a Ritz-Carlton hotel has to be even smaller.
"I guess we will find out," said Jim Butler, a hotel lawyer specializing in representing hotel owners and developers, and chair of the global hospitality group of Jeffer, Mangels, Butler & Marmaro LLP. "There certainly is a demand for residential. More business people are moving back to the city's core."
KB Urban and Anschutz Entertainment Group, a wholly-owned subsidiary of the Anschutz Co. and the developer of L.A. Live, announced June 13 an agreement with Marriott International Inc. to open an 876-room Marriott Marquis hotel that will serve as the headquarters hotel of the convention center. Housed in the same building will be a 124-room boutique Ritz-Carlton hotel and 216 private condominiums. The projected cost of the hotel tower is in the $700 million range, according to Jeffrey Gault, president of KB Urban.
The 54-story building's exterior will feature a metal-and-glass curtain wall in colors of blue and green and patterns, creating a distinctive profile that emphasizes the slender proportions of the building.
The Marriott rooms will take up the first through 21st floors, the Ritz will take up floors 22 through 25, with the residences occupying floors 27 through 52. The 26th, 53rd and 54th floors will house mechanical equipment.
Butler advises his clients thinking of building a mixed-use condo-hotel that each component has to be viable on its own merit. With its connection to the L.A. Live entertainment and The Ritz-Carlton cachet, he thinks the KB project has a good chance of succeeding.
"I think the concept is admirable," Butler said. "I worked downtown 10 years ago, and there was nothing to do. Part of the excitement of New York and Chicago is that they are 24-hour cities. There is stuff to do, see and participate in. I think what is happening at L.A. Live is very viable in creating that type of energy."
Buyers of The Ritz-Carlton condominiums are expected to be corporations with offices downtown and affluent U.S. residents as well as people who live abroad but who have ties to Southern California, Gault said.
"For this buyer, a home at The Ritz-Carlton Residences is about needs anticipated, privacy ensured and living a vibrant lifestyle in the center of one of the world's greatest cities," Gault said. "L.A. Live will offer those unforgettable experiences with dining, live entertainment, sporting events and much more."
KB Urban will have some competition from other developers in the condo-hotel space, but the company thinks its project can hold its own.
While no announcement has been made, The Related Cos. has been negotiating to bring a W Hotel with condominiums to its Grand Avenue project, said Jack Kyser, senior vice president and chief economist for Los Angeles Economic Development Corp.
There are also plans for a Four Seasons with a residential component at a parcel located on the corner of Figueroa and Seventh streets, he said, and the Westin Bonaventure has the ability to convert some of its hotel rooms to condominiums, adding more of the same product to the stock.
However, the Ritz-Carlton will set the top of the market, according to Daniel Wiedman, a spokesman for KB Home. Actual price points have yet to be set for the 218 residences that are slated for completion by late 2009 or early 2010.
Bruce Karatz, chairman and chief executive officer of KB Home, said that while condo-hotels don't work everywhere at any pricing point, his project is unique.
"We think there is a market for it, but it certainly isn't without risk," he said.
Timing is also another KB advantage.
"We are not all coming on line at the same time," Gault said. "We are the only one in construction. We are digging the foundation now and going vertical in January."
The sales center is scheduled to open in 2007.
Marriott, which has prior successes in both Washington, D.C. and Boston with its Ritz-Carlton residences, is nonplused by the possibility of competition.
"We think all the ingredients are there," said Roger Conner, vice president of communications for Marriott International Inc. "It's Los Angeles. You've got the demographics. It's a city known to be hot, hip and have cool activities, which includes a night life for the residents."
The only unproven factor is whether this concept can succeed in downtown Los Angeles, Conner said.
The Marriott joins a whole host of other developers betting on the success of city officials' plan to turn Los Angeles' downtown into a 24-hour city with such retail amenities as a grocery store, clothiers, restaurants or even dry cleaning services.
Being connected to the 4 million-square-foot L.A. Live gives the Marriott hotel project an upper hand from Gault's viewpoint. He points out that AEG has plans for a dozen restaurants, the 7,100-seat NOKIA Theater, the 2,200-seat Club NOKIA, a 14-screen Regal Cineplex, broadcast facilities for ESPN and office space at the $2.5 billion L.A. Live.

Long-Awaited
The 2 million-square-foot hotel tower, a major component of L.A. Live, is the long-awaited hotel project that will serve the Los Angeles convention center, which was expanded in 1992.
"When the pro forma was done for the convention center, there was an assumption that it could serve 4,000 hotel units," said Michael Collins, executive vice president of L.A. Inc., the convention and visitors bureau. "There were hotel projects planned in the 1980s, but none were completed."
Downtown Los Angeles only has 1,500 hotel rooms within walking distance of its convention center. In comparison, San Francisco has 9,000 hotel rooms near its convention center and San Diego has 4,000.
"While our West Coast competitors were feverishly building hotel product, Los Angeles' hotel product was in suspended animation," Collins said. "The fact that it wasn't developing at the rate of our competitors became apparent in 2001 when San Diego and Anaheim completed their convention centers."
Los Angeles could use another 2,500 hotel rooms within walking distance of the convention center based on the then-Deloitte & Touche analysis done when the convention center was expanded, Collins said.
"We have had the ability to create more demand than we could house downtown," Collins said. "Los Angeles as a market has huge appeal. The idea of a headquarters hotel next to the convention center has been fundamental to our ability to get back into the convention game."
San Diego and Anaheim pulled a huge chunk of business from Los Angeles when their convention centers came on line. Previously, Los Angeles was averaging slightly more than 30 conventions annually. The number of conventions annually began to drop in 2001. This year, Los Angeles only attracted 16 conventions.
"The need for the new hotel became more apparent as the national market became increasingly aware of the fact that our competition is doing a very nice job of building to meet demand," Collins said.
By the end of fiscal year 2005 in June, L.A. Inc. had booked 72,000 hotel rooms worth of convention business. For this year, L.A. Inc. has booked 305,000 rooms worth of future convention business.
"One year later and the only significant change is that well-publicized decision by the city that they would help fund a convention center hotel," Collins said. "We didn't even know what the hotel brand was until recently."
Ever since the city announced early this year its plans to earmark funding to aid in construction of a convention center hotel, that trend has been changing, Collins said.
After his experience in the 1980s, Collins said, history "tells us that many projects on the books don't come to fruition."
"Many don't, but many will," he added. "I think just the fact that the news is out that there will be that hotel and it will open in late 2009 or 2010 will cause some other properties to make adjustments."
For example, Collins said the Wilshire Grand has announced plans to invest $40 million in upgrades to its property.
"The commitment from Marriott International, considered to be the most knowledgeable company on convention center 'headquarters hotels' and their Marriott Marquis and The Ritz Carlton brands, clearly verifies the industry's excitement and enthusiasm for downtown Los Angeles, the convention center and L.A. Live," said Timothy J. Leiweke, president and chief executive officer of AEG.
Leiweke has often made references to the fact that Des Moines, Iowa, has been able to attract more convention center business than Los Angeles in recent years.
"When the hotel comes on line, Los Angeles will again be able to compete with other West Coast convention destinations," Collins said. "We will certainly beat Des Moines, and I suspect a few others along with them."

[luckyeight]

[QUOTE=bobcat]More about the LA Live hotel, and news of a possible Four Seasons near 7th/Figueroa. I wonder exactly where that's supposed to be.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

that would be that empty parking lot next to the old barker bros. bldg. along Figueroa between 7th and 8th streets.

On the master plan that I saw... a while ago there was supposed to be
a hotel there with a Hawaiian Theme.

[LosAngelesSportsFan]

Also, a significant point in the article was that the hotel will start going VERTICAL IN JANUARY!!, citywatch, you gotta love that!

[bobcat]

On the master plan that I saw... a while ago there was supposed to be
a hotel there with a Hawaiian Theme.

You're probably thinking about the Halekulani Hotel project, which I understood to be built at 8th/Figueroa. It was first proposed back in the late 80's/early 90's, but I hadn't heard about it in such a long time that I didn't know if it was still alive.

[citywatch]

here is the link I give upI notice you posted the links to the yahoo page instead of the specific photos embedded in each page. However, even those links didn't result in the pictures opening up in this forum unless they already had been viewed in the user's browser. But thanks for the photos anyway, esp the one that shows for the first time the former parking lot west of main LA Live site, or the space where the Regal Theaters are to be built, cleared out & being prepped for devlpt.

[citywatch]

Also, a significant point in the article was that the hotel will start going VERTICAL IN JANUARY!!
Heck, yea, that's good to know!

Also, the bit of news about a possible hotel being built at the corner of 7th & Fig is intriguing, assuming the site actually should have been described as being near the SE corner of Fig & 7th, or also near the NW corner of 8th & Flower:

A photo by Eric Richardson shows the location, which has been one of the dozens & dozens of deadzones in the hood for way too long:

http://static.flickr.com/51/135557186_8131021eeb.jpg?v=0

[luckyeight]

You're probably thinking about the Halekulani Hotel project, which I understood to be built at 8th/Figueroa. It was first proposed back in the late 80's/early 90's, but I hadn't heard about it in such a long time that I didn't know if it was still alive.


you are right about Halekulani Hotel......

for your info we are renovating Wilshire Grand......
hoping we would get Marriott and Ritz, the other firm out
of Long Beach got it......Maybe, we will get four season or W
if that's true.....

[luckyeight]

Heck, yea, that's good to know!

Also, the bit of news about a possible hotel being built at the corner of 7th & Fig is intriguing, assuming the site actually should have been described as being near the SE corner of Fig & 7th, or also near the NW corner of 8th & Flower:

A photo by Eric Richardson shows the location, which has been one of the dozens & dozens of deadzones in the hood for way too long:

http://static.flickr.com/51/135557186_8131021eeb.jpg?v=0


that empty lot used to be oshman sporting goods and Big men clothing store
in the 70's

[ucland]

The theater lot is significantly deeper now. If one day I ever decipher this enigma which is posting pictures on this webpage I will take more from my office. In case you have not already figured it out—I am not what one would call computer savvy.

[Steve2726]

^^^^ Is your office in the 777 tower? It looks like a great spot.

[LongBeachUrbanist]

^^ ucland, the easiest way to post your pictures is on flickr.com. It's free, and once you post there, it even gives you the urls to use. You then copy the url and paste it into a link. Example:

http://static.flickr.com/30/65611770_5a8c558649_s.jpg

was created using

[img]http://static.flickr.com/30/65611770_5a8c558649_s.jpg[img]

except using "/img" instead of "img" that in the closing tag.

[ucland]

Thanks for the patience. One day I will overcome my computer ineptitude. I am in San Francisco this weekend, but I will take more pictures on Monday. Yes, I am at 777 fig.

[ucland]

Some more pics.

http://static.flickr.com/73/193155321_7375892bf5_b.jpg

http://static.flickr.com/72/193155320_8544299c2e_b.jpg

http://static.flickr.com/66/193151149_12e47e0ce4_b.jpg

http://static.flickr.com/44/193151148_36c134874f_b.jpg

http://static.flickr.com/73/193151147_82c012e16e.jpg

http://static.flickr.com/67/193151145_55bc5a1ba5_b.jpg

http://static.flickr.com/45/193151143_e25eb6a427.jpg

http://static.flickr.com/78/193151142_a36d8f1b5e_b.jpg

[SoCal]

damn, it seems like its taking forever... so im sorry i havent really read up on this so maybe someone can save me the time, are they still gonna have the big flashy screens on the hotel or no ?? if so how big if not why not anymore ??

[luckyeight]

huge crowd is anticipated

:banana: :banana: www.giantvillage.com

[DJM19]

Thats good, it was really too bad about what happened for the 06 new year.

[colemonkee]

Great pics, ucland! It seems like they should be moving faster on the Nokia Theater portion, but what do I know. I wonder if/when they'll install another crane there.

As for Giant Village, I'll be there, along with a few friends from out of town. Should be a good time. The New Year's line-up was better, but this one should do just fine.

[citywatch]

Some more pics.
Your photos, of the area directly north of LA Live, are helpful in showing how much more space in the hood has to be cleaned up & filled in. There still are plenty of parking lots & hovels that can be replaced with new devlpt.

That's why I think ppl are jumping the gun when they believe certain projs or proposals of today or even several yrs from now will be taking away the chance to ever create a bigger, better skyline or more office space, or any other option they think is lacking in the hood at the moment.

[LAMetroGuy]

[/b]
Your photos, of the area directly north of LA Live, are helpful in showing how much more space in the hood has to be cleaned up & filled in. There still are plenty of parking lots & hovels that can be replaced with new devlpt.

That's why I think ppl are jumping the gun when they believe certain projs or proposals of today or even several yrs from now will be taking away the chance to ever create a bigger, better skyline or more office space, or any other option they think is lacking in the hood at the moment.

You really can't expect to have everything be built at the same time? That would create a whole set of different issues. I know its stupid to say, but Rome wasn't built in a day and neither will Downtown LA's revitalization, baby steps grow into big steps which eventually will result in a new and better downtown. Try to be optomistic :yes:

[LAMetroGuy]

The architect for the Nokia Theater is "ELS/Elbasani & Logan Architects" I have not heard of them and couldn't find anything about them... does anyone have any info on these guys?

[LongBeachUrbanist]

ELS was founded by Barry Elbasani, AIA, who has worked with the Urban Land Institute and apparently lives in the Bay Area. They did Pioneer Place in Portland, OR and Crocker Galleria in San Francisco. They apparently won some awards in 1994/5 from the USITT, which is the U.S. Institute of Theater Technology.

[LAMetroGuy]

Thanks LBU... i'm surprised they don't have a website... would be nice to see more details regarding the Nokia Theater... the inside, etc...

[citywatch]

You really can't expect to have everything be built at the same time?Actually, I think if ppl realize how long & difficult the road to cleaning up the hood has been, they'd be more appreciative of a lot of (and even all) the new projs now underway or being proposed for the hood. That's why I go "HUH?!" when ppl complain that a new bldg isn't going to be taller (& according to LAB, some ppl living in DT even complain that a proposed bldg will be too tall), or that some type of proj will be built instead of something else, or that a new tower is going to be designed in a certain way that doesn't meet their tastes, or that a new proj doesn't have whatever, this or that. It's not that ppl shouldn't be picky, but it's that they & everyone else have got to realize there's no guarantee that the hood is going to do very well in attracting ppl & businesses (inc stores) in the future.

[BrighamYen]

^ You're right citywatch. The most important thing at this critical stage in Downtown LA's life is to get as many projects built as possible before any possible major market shifts. Regardless of a market slow-down, if they're built, eventually they'll get filled up (just like in the Wilshire Corridor in Westwood). The important thing is to densify Downtown with as many people as possible to sustain retail and entertainment, which leads to myriad other possibilities (hotels, clubs, museums, Donald Trump, etc.) that ultimately create an exciting urban city (like NY or Chicago).

[citywatch]

^ I sometimes wonder if cleaning up & improving the city has taken even longer because too many ppl, esp pols & other govt officials, have been too satisfied with the way things have been for yrs & yrs & yrs. IOW, they'll drive & walk around DT or other hoods throughout LA & even though they're in the middle of some deadzone or dive, they'll say, this place is good enough for me!! They'll believe that turning a blind eye to the problems in LA somehow makes those problems go away or makes ppl not realize such problems exist to begin with.

I have a feeling that ppl who react this way either will be far less excited or even apathetic about new projs. Or in the case of NIMBYites, they'll be even hostile towards new devlpt. They're the ones who'll drive by the site of LA Live or the Concerto condo proj & say, damn, now I have no place to park my car!!

Or they'll say, sheesh, I don't even remember what used to be here before it became a construction site! Whether it's parking lots or bldgs, as far as I'm concerned, it's all the same to me, one being not much better or worse than the other!

[LAMetroGuy]

Steve Lopez:
Points West
Downtown as Theme Park Just a Shill Ride
July 26, 2006

Hate to sound like a party pooper, but I'm not sure I'm loving what I'm hearing about the reinvention of downtown Los Angeles.

It's a tossup which is more irksome, the comparison of the Grand Avenue redevelopment plan with the Champs Elysees in Paris, or the description of the L.A. Live project near the Staples Center as Times Square West.

Isn't there already a place in the West that people can visit if they want bad imitations of world destinations? Yeah, it's called Vegas.

And besides, the once-grand Champs Elysees has been cheapened with fast-food joints and souvenir shops, judging by my last visit. As for Times Square, ever since the makeover, it's just another tourist trap.

The topper, though, is that taxpayers are forking over subsidies to L.A. Live developer Philip Anschutz, a Denver billionaire seven times over, and I'd like to call attention to this before our fawning city officials give him Griffith Park.

Now, before I continue, I'm going to admit that I seem to hold a minority opinion on the sports-entertainment colossus called L.A. Live. As noted, the City Council couldn't roll over fast enough, and Chamber of Commerce types are leaping for joy. Even downtown activist and professional curmudgeon Brady Westwater has found something to like about L.A. Live. He favors concentrating all that stuff in one place rather than sprinkling it around and ruining historic neighborhoods, which could later be redeveloped in less crass ways.

As for the subsidies, Westwater said it didn't look like a hotel would ever get built near the Convention Center any other way, and the Convention Center is a loser without one.

Maybe, but I can't quit thinking about those subsidies.

Anschutz got $58 million in city bonds and $12 million in redevelopment grants for the land around the Staples Center, and now he's been promised $290 million in hotel tax rebates over the next 25 years to help finance the $2.5-billion sports-entertainment colossus called L.A. Live.

The project is slated to include two upscale hotels, luxury condos, restaurants, an ESPN broadcasting studio, a Grammy museum, a 7,000-seat theater and 15-screen multiplex.

In other words, it's a triumphant blow to originality and the natural evolution of city life. While I might be lured to drop by on occasion, I suspect I'll be avoiding the synthetic fun center as much as possible, just on principle. The name alone is a tipoff to trouble, making it sound as if a visit will be akin to having a walk-on role in a reality show.

"Welcome to L.A. Live!"

And with so many different companies getting in on the act — from ESPN to the Ritz Carlton — one has to wonder if Anschutz isn't setting himself up for more of the kind of legal entanglements that have plagued him in the past.

As my colleague Glenn Bunting pointed out in his Sunday profile of Anschutz:

"Courthouse records in California, Colorado, Wyoming and New York show that during the past three decades Anschutz has paid large cash settlements — all of them confidential — to companies that claimed they were denied their fair share of profits or done in by deceptive business practices."

Would you want the man as your partner?

I strolled the streets around the Staples Center the other day, and I bumped into a guy who watches L.A. Live take shape through the window of his loft. Thomas Clarke seemed like a decent, smart enough fellow, except that he's all for it.

"Times Square, you're right, is a tourist place," the former New Yorker said. "But it's one of the places that makes New York New York. It's like the Empire State Building. They're icons, and Los Angeles could use that. Plus, downtown could use some life 24-7, because after 7, it looks like a ghost town."

I would argue that a sports-entertainment theme park is the wrong kind of icon to shoot for. But being the fair-minded person I am, I called the L.A. Live people to hear them out.

Anschutz, of course, doesn't deign to speak to the press, which is pretty arrogant for a guy who doesn't live here but wants to remake the very skyline of our city.

That's the scariest kind of power broker, by the way, the guy who never comes out from behind the curtain and has all the politicians in his pocket. If not for all those lawsuits against him, I wouldn't even be sure he exists.

I did get a callback, however, from his point man.

L.A. Live is not going to be anything like Universal Citywalk, Tim Leiweke assured me. It's not going to be a place to shop, but a place to light the Christmas tree, host major awards shows and gather our collective pride as Angelenos. And besides, he says, it will plow $20 million to $50 million a year into the city treasury.

We set a lunch date for next week at Liberty Grill, a brand-new downtown restaurant run by his wife, who's in on the ground floor of the renaissance. Leiweke is then going to sell me on L.A. Live, or at least that's his assignment.

It got tougher, though, when he told me the Staples Center draws 4 million people a year downtown, and L.A. Live will more than quadruple that number.

And we gave up tax breaks for Anschutz to make our traffic nightmare even worse? He should have been required to build a new subway station, at the very least.

[bjornson]

I posted that article in the Downtown thread a while back and no one responded to it so it's good that you did because it's quite interesting. LABeauty said it was the worst article Steve Lopez has ever written.

[citywatch]

^ Cleaning up & improving the city has taken longer because of ppl like Steve Lopez, who relocated here from Philly not too many yrs ago.

What really :hell: me is that a lot of ppl like him, when they get a new job in another city or hood, or marry someone living in another town, or have children who'll need cozy schools & safe streets, will then pack their bags & move away, never to be seen or heard from again.

I remember going through the archives of the LA Times a few yrs ago & one of the biggest critics of plans back in the early 1970s to redevelop DT was an East Coaster transplanted to LA. Only a few yrs after publicly & strongly slamming CRA plans to rejuvenate the hood, he moved back to his hometown of Wash DC.

[danparker276]

Oh, I dunno if anyone was talking about it, but last week's downtown news crane operate article. The guy said the underground parking lot in LA live would be finished and used for this year for the Clippers and that other basketball team in LA, in November.

[SoCal]

^lol, that other one, you mean the one with all those chamionships... hahaha
:cheers:

[danparker276]

Pic walking by 8-19

http://www.loftla.com/loftla/Handler.ashx?PhotoID=474&Size=L

[ocman]

^ Cleaning up & improving the city has taken longer because of ppl like Steve Lopez, who relocated here from Philly not too many yrs ago.

What really :hell: me is that a lot of ppl like him, when they get a new job in another city or hood, or marry someone living in another town, or have children who'll need cozy schools & safe streets, will then pack their bags & move away, never to be seen or heard from again.

I remember going through the archives of the LA Times a few yrs ago & one of the biggest critics of plans back in the early 1970s to redevelop DT was an East Coaster transplanted to LA. Only a few yrs after publicly & strongly slamming CRA plans to rejuvenate the hood, he moved back to his hometown of Wash DC.



He's perfectly fine as a political journalist, as we can see from his work on downtown LA homeless. But awful as the columnist for city life. This is just one example of how absolutely clueless and useless the LA Times has become. If you are going to hire someone to write about the city, wouldn't it be smart to hire someone who has actually LIVED in the city before getting the job and who actually likes Los Angeles? I'd like to know who the moron is at the LA Times that thought "You know what would be so original and has never been done before? An east coast transplant perspective on LA!" :yuck:

[colemonkee]

Pic walking by 8-19

http://www.loftla.com/loftla/Handler.ashx?PhotoID=474&Size=L
I know they're moving quickly on this, but after looking at this pic, it appears they're going to have to move a little quicker to meet that Nov. deadline for completing the garage. The garage at the Galen Center still isn't complete yet, and they flew on that one.

[Steve2726]

Here is a time lapse video of the construction:

http://www.seemyla.com/meetingpro/lalive_faster.wmv

Assuming this is a webcam, it would be great if it was available real time.

And while we are on the subject, KB finally has a seperate website up for KB urban:

http://www.kburban.com/

[citywatch]

This article pertains to LA Live only indirectly, but I want to slot it in here because it reminds me of how much change----for the better----has taken place in the city over the past several yrs, or is taking place right now, thanks in part to major new devlpt like LA Live.

I don't think it's likely the city will land the games for a 3rd time, at least not as early as 2016, but the hood around USC & Staples Ctr, or DTLA in general, has more advantages in 2006 than it did in 1984, & I'm guessing will have even more pluses 10 yrs from today.

In comparison, think of what the hood around Staples & LA Live was like back in 1984. The convention ctr was used for the international press, where writers & reporters from throughout the world were housed, & when I think of what they saw & walked around at that time, not just in the immediate area, but way before the convention ctr's new hall had been built to the south (on what was once deadzones to the max!), before Elleven/Evo/Luma, before Hanover, before Staples, before LA Live, before the Ralphs/condo proj, before Concerto, before Wells Fargo Ctr, before Cal Plaza, before metro 417, before Disney Hall, before the Colburn School, before many of the newer apt bldgs & hotels of Bunker Hill, before Tom Gilmore's OBD, or Palmer's apt bldgs, or USC's Gateway proj, or the Galen Ctr, I feel like this:

:drowning: :gaah: :drowning:


Chicago Tribune, Sept 4, 2006

Philip Hersh
Olympic past may not help L.A.'s bid

It may not be able to hold on to pro football teams, but Los Angeles has a hold on the Olympics unlike that of any other U.S. city. The 1932 Los Angeles Olympics introduced the idea of an Olympic Village shared by all athletes. The success of the 1984 Los Angeles Games saved the very idea of the Olympics, which had been riddled by boycotts and terrorism and were on the brink of financial collapse, while providing the International Olympic Committee with a new economic model for organizing the event.

Yet in the contest to become host of the 2016 Summer Games, Los Angeles' Olympic past may be a mixed blessing. It must overcome a feeling of been there, done that. The question is: In a country the size of the United States, should one city get a chance to have the Olympics three times if the other U.S. contenders, Chicago and San Francisco, prove viable candidates?

In 2012, London will become the first three-time Olympic host. Just two others, Paris and Athens, have had two official Summer Games.

"There is a lot of magic in moving the Games around, so they impact more and different lives," said Billy Payne, who ran the 1996 Atlanta Olympics. "But L.A. has done a good job twice." Atlanta is the only other U.S. city to have hosted a true Summer Olympics. The 1904 Games in St. Louis were a sideshow as part of the World's Fair.

"This will be a new Olympics," Barry Sanders, chairman of the Southern California Committee for the Olympic Games, said of L.A.'s 2016 bid. "At least 70 percent of the sports will take place in different facilities from 1984."

Los Angeles also must fight the perception it has an unfair advantage because U.S. Olympic Committee Chairman Peter Ueberroth, who ran the 1984 Olympics, and all three IOC members from the U.S. live in Southern California. Those four represent 36 percent of the USOC board, expected to have final say over the choice of a U.S. bid city. "My interest is in determining whether or not we have an American city that can be competitive internationally in bidding to host the Games," Ueberroth said. "As to which U.S. city that is, I am completely indifferent. The fact is, I have ties to all three U.S. cities under consideration."

Ueberroth was born and went to elementary school in Chicago's north suburbs. He went to San Jose State in the San Francisco Bay Area. Sanders thinks the ties among Ueberroth, the IOC members and Southern California actually could complicate Los Angeles' position. "I feel pressured to offer the USOC a bid that is head and shoulders above the others," Sanders said.

In an interview with the Tribune, Sanders provided details of L.A.'s preliminary 2016 plan for the first time publicly. Los Angeles starts with one clear advantage over Chicago and San Francisco: An Olympic Stadium in place. The Coliseum could reprise its role from 1932 and 1984 once a track is reinstalled.

Chicago is emphasizing the compactness of its plan, hoping that will be seen as a plus compared with the distances between major venues in L.A. and San Francisco. Los Angeles' 2016 plan is considerably more compact than what was used in 1984. That is significant, given Southern California's substantial growth in population and traffic. According to a UCLA study, the population of Los Angeles County is expected to increase by 50 percent, to 12.8 million, in the three decades between 1990 and 2020. Those 4 million additional people may be using almost as many additional cars.

There were fears the 1984 Games would be paralyzed by gridlock, especially the middle Friday, when the competitive schedule was heaviest and concentrated on the area around USC. Those fears proved so groundless that Ueberroth turns them into an amusing anecdote. At the height of the fateful Friday rush hour, Ueberroth recalled, he was sitting in a helicopter above what usually is the most congested freeway interchange in downtown Los Angeles. Broadcasting from the chopper to local radio stations, he was able to count cars as they passed below. "Any city can plan around traffic, with a little cooperation from the public," Ueberroth said.

The 2016 L.A. plan calls for one primary Olympic Village, on the campus of either USC or UCLA, rather than the two of 1984; venues in two counties rather than four; and many venues on or near the rail transit system built after 1984. Soccer preliminaries will be the only events beyond Los Angeles and Orange Counties. Rowing and canoe-kayak, held 90 miles away at Lake Casitas in 1984, would take place at Long Beach in 2016. Bren Center at the UC Irvine campus, to be used for badminton, is 40 miles from downtown L.A. and is the most far-flung non-soccer venue in the current plan.

The 1984 legacy included not only a $225 million surplus that endowed two foundations—the USOC Foundation and the Amateur Athletic Foundation of Los Angeles, which funds youth sports—but also no white elephant venues. Of the three venues built for 1984, the two for shooting and velodrome no longer exist, but a new velodrome has been built.

Many arenas built since 1984 figure prominently in the 2016 plan. They include the Staples Center (gymnastics) and Nokia Theater (weightlifting), both in downtown L.A.; Arrowhead Pond in Anaheim (basketball); the Galen Center at USC (boxing); the Pyramid at Long Beach State (team handball); and the Home Depot Center, 18 miles from downtown, which has the velodrome, a tennis center that can seat 13,000 and a 27,000-seat soccer stadium. The swimming pools would be temporary facilities in Long Beach, similar to the arrangement at the 2004 Olympic trials. The diving pool is likely to be at a new, permanent UCLA aquatics facility.

All this, Sanders said, can be done for $150 million in permanent and temporary construction costs, less than one-fourth Chicago's projection.

"The Olympics are built on excellence and tradition and innovation, whether it's the first time or the third," Sanders said. "The only question should be where is the best place to have the Games."

[LosAngelesSportsFan]

Great Article! Its good to see details, unfortunatley, our local papers dont give a damn, when so many of the residents do. also, the more important thing is that we can see how much the city has really changed since 84, and how much more it will by 2016, and how rail, and central LA play an integral role in that. Galen Center, Colosieum, Staples Center, Sports Arena, Nokia Theater, Dodger Stadium, all pretty much on the same street, less than 2 miles apart, all served by rail, with the exception of Dodger Stadium. All of the major events can be accessed by rail, and areas served by rail, Hollywood, Pasadena, Long Beach, Wilshire, Santa Monica and West LA as well as East LA can all succeed and our visitors wont have to drive to go to any games. what an amazing change!

[Easy]

They are indeed flying now. If the progress over the last 2 weeks is any indication the parking garages will be ready for basketball/hockey season.

[LongBeachUrbanist]

^I'm sure that's what they're hoping for. Parking costs $20 a pop in that area during events, that's a revenue stream LA Live would like to drink from. Too many people that go to these games don't know how or don't care to take the Metro.

[innov8]

Here is a time lapse video of the construction:

http://www.seemyla.com/meetingpro/lalive_faster.wmv
http://www.kburban.com/

Great link Steve, last time I was down there and saw it
in May it was just a hole in the ground. Great video :tup:

[Infestma]

I heard Ueberoth speaking at a private event couple months ago. Someone asked him about LA's chances as a potential city and I remember he seemed strongly against it saying something to the degree of "LA is not going to get the olympics". I was surprised the chairman of the olympic committe who is considering all these cities was so outspoken about that in public (i guess he did this because it was considered "private" only about 60 people were there all leaders in the real estate industry in southern california) i was helping out as a student.

[danparker276]

Do you think the city will let people park at LA Live parking lot this year, with heavy construction going on above?

[citywatch]

"LA is not going to get the olympics".
Some Chicagoans believe ppl like Uberroth are going to be biased in favor of LA, or at least any city located in CA. Now it seems that it's actually just the opposite of that.

I can't believe he didn't think his comments would leak out. If so, is he already trying to sabotage the selection process?

[colemonkee]

I just drove by it a few minutes ago, and there were six concrete trucks lined up on Georgia. Looks like there's a considerable pour going on today. And the Nokia Theater is starting to take shape. From the 110 you can see formwork for the floor of the first level of inclined seating.

[SoCal]

can anyone snap a picture ??

[colemonkee]

From the Los Angeles Business Journal

AEG Names Head of L.A. Live

AEG, owner and operator of the Staples Center, said it has appointed Lisa Herzlich to manage its L.A. Live sports and entertainment district project across the street from Staples Center.

Herzlich will be responsible for overall operations of the 27-acre, 4-million-square-foot facility east of the Harbor Freeway (110). The facility will be a tourist-oriented sports-entertainment complex, which will sport 2,000 apartments and condos, a 54-story hotel tower, a 7,000-seat live performance auditorium, a 15-screen movie theater and more than 10 restaurants and clubs. It is scheduled to open in late 2007.

Herzlich was in charge of marketing at Cherry Creek Shopping Center for the past 14 years. Cherry Creek is a 1.1-million-square-foot mall in Denver owned by Michigan-based Taubman Centers Inc., which owns the Beverly Center.

Los Angeles-based AEG is a subsidiary of Anschutz Co., which is owned by Denver-based billionaire Philip Anschutz.

[bobcat]

A slightly more detailed article from LA Times:

Denver Marketing Exec to Oversee L.A. Live
By Roger Vincent
Times Staff Writer

September 26, 2006

A Denver marketing specialist has been hired to operate the $2.5-billion L.A. Live sports and entertainment district being built across the street from Staples Center in downtown Los Angeles, the owners said Monday.

Lisa Herzlich, 52, will be responsible for overall operations of the completed project, said AEG, owner of Staples and L.A. Live. Her duties will include booking all events as well as sponsor relations, tenant relations, parking and security.

As managing director starting in January, she will report to AEG President Timothy J. Leiweke and Ted Tanner, senior vice president in charge of real estate. Los Angeles-based AEG is a subsidiary of Anschutz Co., which is owned by Denver billionaire Philip Anschutz.

"She is in charge of what I like to call the 'moment of truth,' " Leiweke said, referring to when the venue's expected 20 million annual visitors will arrive and experience events. "No single position will be more critical to the creation, overall operations and ultimate success of L.A. Live than this job."

Herzlich has been marketing director for 14 years for Cherry Creek Shopping Center, a 1.1-million-square-foot mall in Denver owned by Taubman Centers Inc. The Michigan-based company also owns the Beverly Center in Los Angeles, where Herzlich is interim marketing director.

"Most of what I have done is bring big events to town," she said.

L.A. Live is a 4-million-square-foot development under construction on 27 acres north of Staples and east of the Harbor Freeway at Figueroa Street and Olympic Boulevard.

The tourist-oriented sports-entertainment hub will open in phases beginning in October 2007. It is slated to have 2,000 apartments and condos, a 54-story hotel and condo tower, a 7,100-seat live performance theater, broadcast facilities, a 15-screen movie theater and nearly a dozen restaurants and clubs.

Herzlich has already provided her first idea: giving the three levels of underground parking color coding instead of numbers. They will be Clipper red, Laker gold and King purple, Leiweke said, for the pro basketball and hockey teams that call Staples home.

Her hiring presages the announcement of "quite a few major award shows" that will be moving to the facility, Leiweke said. "These deals are close to being inked."

[edluva]

does anyone know when the phases break down for LA Live?

[Damien]

Many arenas built since 1984 figure prominently in the 2016 plan. They include the Staples Center (gymnastics) and Nokia Theater (weightlifting), both in downtown L.A.; Arrowhead Pond in Anaheim (basketball); the Galen Center at USC (boxing); the Pyramid at Long Beach State (team handball); and the Home Depot Center, 18 miles from downtown, which has the velodrome, a tennis center that can seat 13,000 and a 27,000-seat soccer stadium. The swimming pools would be temporary facilities in Long Beach, similar to the arrangement at the 2004 Olympic trials. The diving pool is likely to be at a new, permanent UCLA aquatics facility.

There are two venues that stick out like sore thumbs: the Pyramid and Arrowhead Pond. While I like the Pyramid as much as everyone else, it's pretty far off the map. And if the Sports Arena isn't going to be demolished as part of the new Coliseum project, why not use it for basketball? If it is going to be demolished, I'd hope the Los Angeles Angeles of Anaheim Stadium (lol) would also be used for baseball.

The other thing that seems to be a flashing red light is the water sports venues. It doesn't seem to make much sense to have the aquatics and diving facilities so far from each another.

[colemonkee]

does anyone know when the phases break down for LA Live?
IIRC, Phase 1, which includes the Nokia Theater and parking garages only, is scheduled to open Fall 2007. Phase 2, which includes the rest of the retail, restaurants, Grammy museum and ESPN studios should follow about a year later. Phase 3, which includes the hotel, meeting spaces and the theaters is scheduled for sometime in late 2009 or 2010.

I may be way off. Someone correct me if I am.

[danparker276]

Lakers first preseason game is on the 10th? I don't think that lot will be ready. But that theater looks like it's coming a long way (by looking at it from the 110). Anyone have some new photos

[danparker276]

delete

[Damien]

If my memory serves me correctly, in the past, Lakers and Clippers pre-season games weren't at Staples Center, nor were they at the Forum. They were held at places like the Pyramid, CSU-Dominguez Hills and San Diego. Everywhere BUT Staples Center.