[OldCloverdale]

Wintzell's (http://www.wintzellsoysterhouse.com/index.php) is open for business

[Port_of_Bama]

I saw a few pics of Wintzell in the advertiser and it looks good.

[bystander1]

Me and a friend tried to go there for lunch today, but it was way too packed to wait for the time we had available. We'll try to go again once some of the novelty and excitement wears off.

[tsully76]

I had it for dinner tonight and it was delicious i highly recommend it. Now we just need SaZa's to open up soon.

[bystander1]

Perhaps one of these new restaurants will make a nice spot for our next forum meet... :yes:

I willl soooooooo buy everyone dinner... and unlimited drinks!

[thoraudio]

Perhaps one of these new restaurants will make a nice spot for our next forum meet... :yes:

You're buying?

That's what I heard, everybody else?

Everybody in favor of Bystander buying us dinner at Wintzell's say Aye!



Aye!

[OCA REP]

You're buying?

That's what I heard, everybody else?

Everybody in favor of Bystander buying us dinner at Wintzell's say Aye!



Aye!

Aye!

[Sulley]

Free food? Aye!

[Sulley]

Oh, look - he DID say that he would buy us dinner. How nice.

[bystander1]

I sure will!

Oh waiter, glasses of water all around! On me!

:drunk:

[bystander1]

Perhaps one of these new restaurants will make a nice spot for our next forum meet... :yes:

I willl soooooooo buy everyone dinner... and unlimited drinks!




Oh yeah, really funny. That's a good one Mr. Moderator...

[Sulley]

:angel:

[OCA REP]

Wintzell's (http://www.wintzellsoysterhouse.com/index.php) is open for business

Me and two co-workers had lunch here yesterday. We arrived at about 11:15 AM and it is a GOOD THING we did! After that there was a constant line of people waiting for a table; lots of foot traffic along that block!

My food was excellent. I had a cup of the cream of crab soup, blackened grouper, and cheese grits. It really hit the spot. My friends had an oyster poboy sandwich and a hamburger. The poboy was "ok" and the hamburger was not that great... but, hey... this is a seafood place.

There are a lot of good looking things on the menu and I look forward to returning and trying some of them!

[bystander1]

What do you guys think about the two proposed nighttime trolleys for downtown? One will run from Old Cloverdale to downtown and the other will run from Maxwell AFB to downtown. They will run Thursday, Friday, and Saturday nights until about midnight.

[quattordici]

I like the idea for the one from the AFB. I think it'd be nice to get some more military business in downtown.

[bystander1]

They city is in discussions with Maxwell to run the trolley through the base. But if not, the trolley will pick up passengers at the Bell Street gate's visitors center.
The city is working to build a tighter connection between Maxwell and downtown, and this should help that effort tremendously.

[quattordici]

I really think it would have a great effect on downtown. The military has a certain personality that it brings cities.

[OCA REP]

What do you guys think about the two proposed nighttime trolleys for downtown? One will run from Old Cloverdale to downtown and the other will run from Maxwell AFB to downtown. They will run Thursday, Friday, and Saturday nights until about midnight.

I think it is a good proposal, but I do hate to lose the lunchtime trolley service, although I have been critical of that service when it did not run on schedule.

As the Mayor of the Old Cloverdale Association (OCA), I like the idea of linking our neighborhood to our thriving downtown. I am concerned about the price point of the new service. Initially, the fare is to be $1... but I have heard that MATS may eventually try to get $10 for that service and I don't think that is feasible. Time will tell.

MATS will hold a Public Hearing (http://www.montgomerytransit.com/PDF/PublicNotice18and19.pdf) to allow input from residents on these proposed routes on Wednesday, October 14, 2009 from 5:00 to 7:00 PM in the City Council Chambers at City Hall.

I have also scheduled a MATS representative to attend the next OCA Meeting (http://www.oldcloverdale.org/associationmeetings.html) on October 19, 2009 to discuss this new service with businesses and residents of our neighborhood.

[bystander1]

You know, I highly doubt that the fare will eventually go to $10 for a ride downtown. That's waaay too much...even for your neighborhood.
;)

[mgmrebel]

I believe the trolley proposal could be a good idea if the city promotes Cloverdale as well as the downtown area. Many restaurants and area clubs feel the alley project (with the city backing) is sucking away their business. With a dependable connection between downtown and the Cloverdale businesses including the proper promotion, this could be a good move for the Cloverdale area business. with all the hotel development in and around downtown, visitors could have the option of stepping out of their hotels and taking a trolley to the Cloverdale entertainment districts, which otherwise they might not even consider. The city needs to step up and make this a positive for both areas of Montgomery. Linking the two districts could enhance both in my opinion.

[bystander1]

City Seek New Captain for Riverboat (http://www.montgomeryadvertiser.com/article/20091012/NEWS01/910120307/City+seeks+new+captain+for+riverboat)

:D

[bystander1]

:previous: Let's go back to July 28th, 2008 to see why I knew that this guy, Bull (very appropriate name), was the wrong pick from the get-go...


I have heard this guy's name multiple times whenever there is talk of a riverboat. Obviously you are opposed to him having anything to do with the new one. Can you educate us as to why we may not want him for this job?


Beside other things, mainly Loyalty.
He was quick to take his ball (boat) and head north for 'greener pastures' even after the city tried to work with him by building a temporary dock away from the old location while the city started work on the permanent dock and riverwalk. The city then would allow him to use the new permanent dock on the riverwalk once it was completed. But he viewed that as a slap in the face, and after talking about the city like a dog, left for Wetumpka where they promised to build a floating dock for his boat if he would move it there. :deal:


He did. :hmmm:


...a few months later, his operations went under... :drowning:



...But now that a REAL riverboat is coming, he now wants to raise his head out the river, and swim back down to Montgomery, to take over operations for the new boat?! :uhh:


...nall :no:

[OldCloverdale]

how much longer on SaZa? a week or two?

[thoraudio]

how much longer on SaZa? a week or two?

Ate at Wintzell's today and noticed they were still doing a lot of work in front of SaZa's. Friend of mine told me that they ran into alot of structural issues, specifically with the sewer.

Of sad note, is the fact that the 'Sale Pending' sign is off the bank/Frank Leu property. :( Apparently financing is an issue, something about a recession... :rolleyes:

[Dyingyak]

Ate at Wintzell's today...

How was your experience? I spoke with my in-laws last night who ate dinner there yesterday and they were very critical of the service and quality of the food. Initially they were excited about a new seafood restaurant in town, especially one with a regional connection but did not have a pleasant meal at all. Their critique were mainly "growing pain" issues...but first impressions do tend to have a lasting stigma.

[thoraudio]

How was your experience? I spoke with my in-laws last night who ate dinner there yesterday and they were very critical of the service and quality of the food. Initially they were excited about a new seafood restaurant in town, especially one with a regional connection but did not have a pleasant meal at all. Their critique were mainly "growing pain" issues...but first impressions do tend to have a lasting stigma.

It was decidedly.... o.k.

I'm not an oyster guy, so that may be their real niche.

Sat down at ~11:15. Seated immediately. The atmosphere is very nice, bigger than I thought it'd be. Large bar, with them shucking oysters right there. Light crowd, but it was filling up quickly. Almost full by the time we left.

Service was decent. Lunch menu seemed kinda sparse. Ended up going with a shrimp basket. Bread before the meal was good. Food came out within 5 ins of ordering. Shrimp were fresh, and good sized, but a little heavy on the breading for me, fries were good. With tip and drink, I got out of there for $14, which is a little on the pricey side.

I love the Original Oyster House in Mobile, and prefer them to Wintzels, when I'm down there. This didn't change that perception, but it wasn't a bad experience by any stretch.

[RSAHort]

It was decidedly.... o.k.

Shrimp were fresh, and good sized, but a little heavy on the breading for me, fries were good.



I felt the same way. To much breading on the shrimp.

We went last week for dinner. We arrived early to beat the crowds. They were running a dozen oysters for $5 happy hour special. My wife got a dozen raw and my father in law got a dozen fried...he wasn't impressed. He said they were to small.

I ate at the one down near Point Clear this summer and their flounder was excellent so I will try that next time instead of the shrimp.

[Roy McDowell]

I had nice grilled Salmon with a side of gumbo at the Fish Company last Friday...mm..mmm and then yesterday heated up a box of Gordon's fish sticks in the microwave.

[thoraudio]

Best I've had was at a place in Mobile called Nan Seas. It was a little out-of-the-way place that was great, but a few too many hurricanes, and they shut it down. :(

[jatrippe]

"American Eagle set for announcement
October 15, 2009

American Eagle Airlines is expected to make an announcement today at 6 p.m., according to an Lynn Cox, a spokeswoman for Montgomery Regional Airport.

The announcement will be made at a reception for the carrier hosted by the airport at the Harriott II Riverboat.

American Eagle began serving Montgomery earlier this year with two daily flights to Dallas-Fort Worth.

-- Cosby Woodruff"

I hope they are not ending service. Sounds doubtful as the announcment is at a reception for them. Anyone know what's going on? Bigger planes or new destinations such as NYC or Chicago would be great.

Edit: Just checked out the AA website. It looks like they are adding a third daily flight.

[quattordici]

It must be something good. Or else they wouldn't have all this fanfare. Hub announcement? Hahaha

[jatrippe]

It must be something good. Or else they wouldn't have all this fanfare. Hub announcement? Hahaha

I agree. Would you have this type of fanfare for adding just one daily flight? Hopefully there is something more to this.

[Dyingyak]

It was decidedly.... o.k.

I'm not an oyster guy, so that may be their real niche.

Sat down at ~11:15. Seated immediately. The atmosphere is very nice, bigger than I thought it'd be. Large bar, with them shucking oysters right there. Light crowd, but it was filling up quickly. Almost full by the time we left.

Service was decent. Lunch menu seemed kinda sparse. Ended up going with a shrimp basket. Bread before the meal was good. Food came out within 5 ins of ordering. Shrimp were fresh, and good sized, but a little heavy on the breading for me, fries were good. With tip and drink, I got out of there for $14, which is a little on the pricey side.

I love the Original Oyster House in Mobile, and prefer them to Wintzels, when I'm down there. This didn't change that perception, but it wasn't a bad experience by any stretch.

Glad to hear your experience on the same day was better. They tend to be "overly picky" about things because they are little older...I chaulked their comments up to that. ;)

[rbp]

The bridge arrived today to join the Molton St. Parking deck and the Riverwalk.

[quattordici]

The bridge arrived today to join the Molton St. Parking deck and the Riverwalk.

There any pictures of the bridge?

[Brown Duckz]

View from a window table at Wintzell's.

Picture is through the glass off my camera phone.

http://i36.tinypic.com/2ahealy.jpg

[bystander1]

The bridge arrived today to join the Molton St. Parking deck and the Riverwalk.

Yesss! That's good news. It seems like it took forever.

[OCA REP]

The bridge arrived today to join the Molton St. Parking deck and the Riverwalk.

From today's DIGITAL edition of the Montgomery Advertiser:

Bridge Arrives, Awaits Installation

The foot bridge leading from the MATS station parking garage, over the railroad tracks, to the tower on the Riv­erwalk arrived Monday. It should be installed in about two weeks.

http://montgomeryadvertiser.al.ussrv15.newsmemory.com/newsmemvol2/alabama/montgomeryadvertiser/20091020/2ad02fea1020_allzones_allcolors_0.pdf.0/img/Image_2.jpg

I could not locate this information in the regular on-line edition of the paper...

[quattordici]

Yay! I like :)

[nimsjus]

Best I've had was at a place in Mobile called Nan Seas. It was a little out-of-the-way place that was great, but a few too many hurricanes, and they shut it down. :(

Former mobilian just reading the thread...Nanseas is still open but at a new location that does not dangle treacherously out over Mobile Bay on piers. New place is in an old seafood restaurant out in west Mobile. Check it out again next time you are down. As for Wintzells, I lived in Mobile almost my entire life and am not a big fan. I too prefer Original Oyster House and several other places in town. The best thing going for Wintzells is the Raw Bar and it just never seems to translate in their franchises. I only go there if I can go to the one in downtown Mobile and sit at the bar and have my raw oysters shucked on the spot. Otherwise it is just sort of average in my book. Always felt like other than the oysters, the portions were small for the price. I hope it does well though because it is a Mobile based company.

[thoraudio]

Former mobilian just reading the thread...Nanseas is still open but at a new location that does not dangle treacherously out over Mobile Bay on piers. New place is in an old seafood restaurant out in west Mobile. Check it out again next time you are down. As for Wintzells, I lived in Mobile almost my entire life and am not a big fan. I too prefer Original Oyster House and several other places in town. The best thing going for Wintzells is the Raw Bar and it just never seems to translate in their franchises. I only go there if I can go to the one in downtown Mobile and sit at the bar and have my raw oysters shucked on the spot. Otherwise it is just sort of average in my book. Always felt like other than the oysters, the portions were small for the price. I hope it does well though because it is a Mobile based company.

Part of the charm of Nan Seas was sitting on the deck in the patio furniture, looking over the bay. :)

But where is it now? Imma google it.

[nimsjus]

Part of the charm of Nan Seas was sitting on the deck in the patio furniture, looking over the bay. :)

But where is it now? Imma google it.

It is off Cody Rd in west Mobile. The new place sits on a pond if that counts....It was previously a seafood/catfish place called Lakeside Lodge that had been out of business for about 3 years when NanSeas needed a ne place after Katrina/Ivan.

[Revive Montgomery]

how much longer on SaZa? a week or two?

They told us that they are currently training staff. They hoped to be open by now, but the construction on Commerce delayed their opening.

[Capital Heights]

They told us that they are currently training staff. They hoped to be open by now, but the construction on Commerce delayed their opening.

We were fortunate enough to sample some pizza, fresh out of the oven, from SaZa's this past weekend. Without a doubt the most succulant pizza I have eaten. It was tomato paste, basil leaf, and a dollap of ricotta cheese on the lightest dough imaginable. I look forward to sampling the rest of the menu. By the way, they said they are ready to open, simply waiting on the sidewalk construction to finish.

[bystander1]

We were fortunate enough to sample some pizza, fresh out of the oven, from SaZa's this past weekend. Without a doubt the most succulant pizza I have eaten. It was tomato paste, basil leaf, and a dollap of ricotta cheese on the lightest dough imaginable. I look forward to sampling the rest of the menu. By the way, they said they are ready to open, simply waiting on the sidewalk construction to finish.


Glad to hear. :tup:

Geez, What's up with that sidewalk?

[bystander1]

They told us that they are currently training staff. They hoped to be open by now, but the construction on Commerce delayed their opening.


Welcome, Revive Montgomery. :hi:

[Jefficator]

So I've been thinking. When you travel to Europe--or even to Times Square now!--significant areas of city centers are being transformed into Pedestrian Zones. I'm wondering whether that could work in Montgomery.

One of the biggest problems, from my perspective, with creating a walking culture downtown (aside from the heat!) is the size of the streets. Madison Avenue spans six lanes at Commerce Street. Dexter Avenue is equally sprawling. Now this might have been wonderful for moving cotton wagons up and down the streets, and it might have been wonderful for cars competing against a dedicated trolley line. Its certainly wonderful for all the cars that whiz past me when I try to walk to Subway. But it is not at all wonderful for pedestrians. The size of our streets are car-not-people-friendly.

There isn't much that can be done about that yet. People here still love their cars too much to allow grassy medians or trolley tracks down the center of many streets.

But what if Lower Commerce Street--after Tallapoosa Street at least--were closed to traffic? What if the whole street were replaced with pavers and cobblestones and maybe a water feature (evoking the connection to the River?) of some kind. Would that integrate this area into the Alley some how and encourage foot traffic?

I realize those buildings are presently occupied by law firms. But wouldn't it be wonderful if they became such valuable real estate that the law firms traded them in for other office space and allowed restaurants to move in?

[Jefficator]

I've been trying to imagine the typical downtown office worker, and trying to imagine what businesses could appeal to them that might turn a profit and manage to stay open at night too. Perhaps these businesses might even ease the transition into downtown living?

Here are ideas I've had. Please make further suggestions!

Zoe's (two women in my office drive to EastChase once a week!)

Starbucks (how is downtown the only place in the universe without one)

7-11 (they are aggressively expanding. A shop on Dexter could succeed)

McDonald's (I don't love them, but a storefront McDonald's could succeed...not a drive-through suburban type one, of course, but a first-floor building)

Frankly I could also see a high-end men's clothing shop doing well. Something like The Locker Room?

Any one else have any ideas? Or help me see my thought error?

[OldCloverdale]

... trying to imagine what businesses... that might turn a profit and manage to stay open at night too. Perhaps these businesses might even ease the transition into downtown living?...

Hooter's

:cheers:

[tsully76]

Hooters, Coyote Ugly, Zoe's, McDonald's, Men's Clothing Store that is not outragoeusly priced Locker Room too expensive, you want something moderately priced same as a womens store, a small grocery store, and a house of blues/comedy club would be nice.

[tsully76]

Also Dunkin Donuts, Small Jewelry Store, Cigar Place with a humidor, Some moderately priced men and women clothing stores, a small sporting goods store, just suggestions and a 7-11 would be awesome.

[thoraudio]

Look at what's successful in other similar sized towns. What is needed is both someplace that locals can go and visitors/tourists can hit and have a pleasant memory.

My vote is this.

A semi open air market similar to the Market in Charleston. Tourist wares to arts and crafts to fruits and vegetables.

There's two good locations for this. One is down the middle of Coosa Street, which is plenty wide enough. This would be a daytime/weekend morning companion to the Alley.

The other location would be on where they are planning to put the green space in front of Union Station. Imagine a row of market type buildings there along the west side of Commerce, with the green space behind them. You've just created a commercial draw for both the green space and the Riverwalk. :tup:

[bystander1]

Look at what's successful in other similar sized towns. What is needed is both someplace that locals can go and visitors/tourists can hit and have a pleasant memory.

My vote is this.

A semi open air market similar to the Market in Charleston. Tourist wares to arts and crafts to fruits and vegetables.

There's two good locations for this. One is down the middle of Coosa Street, which is plenty wide enough. This would be a daytime/weekend morning companion to the Alley.




thoraudio, you and I are on the same page with that idea. :yes:

[tsully76]

I would love to Montgomery Downtown be similar to Nashville's Downtown which is nice very vibrant and hip. Nothing against Charleston or Savannah or Chattanooga they are nice cities but my personal opinion Nashville Downtown is awesome and Montgomery and Nashville are both capitol cities that are centrally located with a river flowing through its downtown and have historic buildings a lot in common obviously Nashville is a bigger city but their are a lot of things we can pattern after that great American city any thoughts.

[quattordici]

We need more development on the other side of the river. What I would like to see is a lot of park space, a massive park, on the northern side of the river with a historic looking pedestrian bridge connecting the northern side with the downtown side.

[bystander1]

We need more development on the other side of the river. What I would like to see is a lot of park space, a massive park, on the northern side of the river with a historic looking pedestrian bridge connecting the northern side with the downtown side.

That is actually part of the long range plan for downtown. The state has talked about making the north peninsula into a state park with walking/biking trails. Former mayor Bobby Bright mentioned the pedestrian bridge that would connect it to downtown. But of course, right now, it's still talk.

[Dyingyak]

That is actually part of the long range plan for downtown. The state has talked about making the north peninsula into a state park with walking/biking trails. Former mayor Bobby Bright mentioned the pedestrian bridge that would connect it to downtown. But of course, right now, it's still talk.

I think it would be really great to do that for downtown Montgomery...but the pedestrian bridge would never happen. The cost to span the river with a pedestrian bridge would be absolutely astronomical. I believe the distance is to great for it to be a single span bridge that small, and feasibility of getting pilings into the river that would be strong enough to withstand a run-away barge is to great.

It's a real shame there's not an abandoned train trestle or obsolete automobile bridge like Chattanooga had.

[Revive Montgomery]

I would qoute, but i agree with too many of the posts.

Thanks for the welcoming bystander!

We all realize that the first way for a downtown and city to thrive is to put your best foot forward, for visitors and for citizens. Over simplifying the process, we first have to be proud of our downtown and city before anyone else will buy into it and visit. I can say that the cities that i have visited and come away impressed with were not only beautiful and well kept but they also felt like they were loved and enjoyed. Sacramento and Salt Lake City come to mind. Sacramento's downtown farmer's market was superb.

At the same time, I believe that a downtown should attract tourists and be able to handle commerce. You can't trade one for the other. A great guy to speak with on the topic of redeveloping our downtown is the same individual who handled planning at The Waters, Nathan Norris. He has the equipment to virtually build our redevloped downtown in front of you.

As far as new businesses, I personally like the idea of a separate shopping district simliar in design to the alley. Perhaps it would include a women's store(boutique/clothing/ jewlery), men's clothing store (Jos A Banks), open air fresh grocery store, original coffee shop or a starbucks, etc.

[Jefficator]

Many of you may have seen the article last month in the Advertiser about creating a walking tour for downtown. I proposed that tour and continue to work with the city to implement it. Here's why I think it could be of unparalleled importance in revitalizing downtown.

1) A chicken-and-egg problem has long prevented large-scale downtown revitalization from taking place. Developers say there is no demand for property downtown, and residents and tourists claim there is nothing to do there. Someone has to make the first move, and in this case the city has done so through such innovations as Riverwalk Stadium, the Renaissance Hotel and Convention Center, and the Alley. But the question remains: how do you pull that revitalization from the river into the core of downtown?

2) Montgomery has been content to view itself as a stop-off for beach-goers on the way to Panama City and Gulf Shores. As long as we think of ourselves that way, we give others no reason to think any differently.

3) Most residents of Montgomery have a self-image of this city as a sleepy, boring, irrelevant place. I recently asked a bartender at a nice downtown bar what she would tell a convention guest to do on a Friday night. "Go to Atlanta." She was not being ironic.

4) The city--and indeed the world--views Montgomery as a powder-keg of division. The version of history a person privileges says a lot about that person's own political/social/historical/cultural/economic views. Is Montgomery the Cradle of the Confederacy, or is it the birthplace of the Civil Rights Movement? You might innocently reply "It is Both!" but you'd be surprised to find that most people here and elsewhere shrug when the sites they don't care about are mentioned.

So what can we do about this?

The Montgomery Civil Heritage Trail would work to promote an image of Montgomery as "America's Civil City." The idea is to remind everyone of the important role Montgomery has played in the American story. Specifically, the two most significant challenges to U.S. Constitutional interpretation unfolded on the streets of this one city. The Confederate Constitutional Convention and the Montgomery Improvement Association, though working toward radically disparate ends, were each engaged in the tradition of determining how their rights should be protected by the government. Symbolized by Jefferson Davis' Inauguration on the steps of the Alabama State Capitol as President of the Confederacy and by Martin Luther King's Speech at the same location at the culmination of the Selma-to-Montgomery march, Dexter Avenue is in many respects as essential a Constitutional location as Philadelphia's Independence Hall.

If we can correctly promote this idea and correctly market the image of Montgomery as America's Civil City--America, as in important for the whole nation, and Civil, as in Civil War, Civil Rights, and Southern Civility--then we could attract tourism in its own right.

Tourists bring tourism dollars when they come. They also bring traffic patterns. If we define a walking tour as a set route between various historical sites, then we dictate where foot traffic will exist. That can then be used by property owners to entice developers. The Convention and Visitors' Bureau can say to the owners of the Kress building, "Hey...30,000 people on foot last summer. Maybe you want to open an ice cream parlor for all those hot and tired Civil Heritage Trail walkers?" Suddenly we've pulled redevelopment into the heart of downtown.

We've also created a group of travelers for whom downtown is the locus of their visit. Maybe someone driving to Panama City pops into downtown but then stays at a hotel at the Bypass because its on their route. But the person who comes here as a destination needs a place to eat, to drink, and maybe to dance at night. We suddenly see demand for downtown hot spots increasing.

We also see a critical mass of night-time workers in downtown. Enough that more than a few of them will demand housing in the area. That critical mass leads to a critical mass for a small grocery store, and so forth.

A walking tour, then, if properly implemented, can create the demand for redevelopment downtown. It can create a unified sense of our city for ourselves and for others. It can help the nation and the world to recognize our role in the American story. And it can lead to a better place for all of us.

There are ancillary concerns to consider along the way. Summer might not be the best tourist season in hot, humid Montgomery. We will absolutely have to conceptualize means of making downtown more walkable--meaning we have to work on little improvements like powerlines and broken sidewalks.

But I think this plan can change this city forever, provided the public truly supports it.

[tsully76]

I totally agree with earlier statements and the point of one of the downtown workers saying go to Atlanta or Montgomerians only view Montgomery as a stop off to the beach is a sad commentary. Dont these people know they are hurting their own bottom line. If tourists and residents are discouraged from being or visiting here jobs will dry up and then what. This city has so much to offer and is continuing to offer more but people here seems to not care i dont get it. I have lived in Montgomery since 98 and i have never been more enthused about our city's future.

[bystander1]

SaZa's open at the Alley!

Check out these pics from the Montgomery Advertiser. (http://www.montgomeryadvertiser.com/apps/pbcs.dll/gallery?Avis=DS&Dato=20091026&Kategori=COMMUNITIES010305&Lopenr=910260806&Ref=PH)

[tsully76]

Thats great news i look forward to eating there this week. One more piece of the Montgomery puzzle that was needed. The piece on WSFA tonight was very well done. Cant wait until the next pub crawl on November 20th having SaZa's and Wintzell's including along with the other venues should be a totally awesome time.

[OldCloverdale]

October 28, 2009

Square Feet

Alabama Pension Fund Plows Millions Into Property in Its Own Backyard (http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/28/realestate/commercial/28alabama.html?_r=1)

By DAN LUZADDER

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2009/10/28/business/28alabama_CA0/articleLarge.jpg
David Bronner in front of two buildings in Montgomery that were built by the Retirement Systems of Alabama.

MOBILE, Ala. — When David Bronner, the chief executive of the Retirement Systems of Alabama, the pension fund for public employees in the state, first discussed making a major investment in this city, he had an ultimatum for local leaders: show that you’re willing to rebuild the city’s education system, and the money will flow.

Mr. Bronner, 64, who has steered the fortunes of the retirement system for 36 years, already had what he thought was a good idea. He would help Mobile rebuild its deteriorated downtown and its self-image — starting with the renovation of the Battle House hotel, which had once been the heart of the city’s downtown.

But, first, he wanted a commitment from Mobilians that they were willing to invest in themselves by raising taxes to pay for better education. “Without education, how can we attract business and industry?” Mr. Bronner said.

A bond issue for public school reform was approved in 2003, and two years later it began to rain money in Mobile — an investment by the retirement system of some $650 million so far.

Today, the Battle House hotel, which had been closed for more than three decades, has been restored to its antebellum elegance. Its rooms and suites are as well appointed as any luxury hotel in the region, and its spa has become a draw for tourists.

The hotel lobby connects to the 35-story RSA Battle House Tower, a sparkling 470,000-square-foot high-rise that is the first truly Class A office space in Mobile, offering tenants the highest-quality space and most advanced technology available in the city. At 745 feet, the tower is also the tallest building on the Gulf Coast east of Houston.

The Battle House Tower, which opened in 2007, is just one of a number of investments that Mr. Bronner has shepherded within Mobile.

His agency also built a new cruise port for $16.1 million: the Alabama Cruise Terminal, a 302,000-square-foot docking area that has attracted cruise ships to the city, including some that used New Orleans as a port before Hurricane Katrina. It spent $97.3 million to buy and restore the 534,000-square-foot Grand Hotel across the water on the eastern arm of the Bay of Mobile, after it was damaged by the wind from Katrina. And the fund most recently spent $6.7 million to buy the 300,000-square-foot, 34-story former AmSouth Bank Building, built in 1965. It is under reconstruction for conversion into the city’s second Class A office tower.

Donald Epley, a professor of real estate and the director of the Mitchell College of Business Center for Real Estate Studies at the University of South Alabama in Mobile, said the retirement system’s investments here — and its even larger investments upstate in Alabama’s state capital, Montgomery — reflected a bet not just on the individual projects but also on the state’s economy.

“If you are going to talk about office space, you have to talk about employment, because that is what drives office space,” Mr. Epley said. “So the story is one also of economic development success here.”

The pension fund’s initiatives have inspired small local banks and other lenders to back business development here, Mr. Epley said.

While the fund’s investments have unquestionably helped the city weather the recession a bit better than some metropolitan areas, there have certainly been casualties. A review compiled by the Center for Real Estate Studies in September showed vacancy rates of about 18 percent in the first and second quarter of this year, based on availability in 191 commercial properties of all classes. By contrast, the rate in the first quarter of 2008 was 12.7 percent.

Mr. Bronner’s vision of investing in Alabama reflects an unusual approach for a state pension fund. Most, he said, are content to turn their money over to an investment manager, and most operate from a single goal of enhancing the value of the retirement funds by wise investments.

But Mr. Bronner has a reputation for taking a longer view, and has invested in real estate as a way to create cultural changes in the state. The approach has on occasion made him controversial, with critics suggesting that spending on economic development by building, owning and operating major hotels and office buildings isn’t the purpose of a state pension fund.

Mr. Bronner credits the fund’s investment in hotels and resorts associated with the Robert Trent Jones Golf Trail in Alabama for creating a multibillion-dollar tourist economy in the state. The agency spent more than $23 million building 11 luxury golf courses designed by Robert Trent Jones, and hundreds of millions more to build hotels and residential developments that the agency owns and operates at the courses. That move is credited with helping to attract business, like the immense new ThyssenKrupp Steel USA plant being constructed on the banks of the Mobile River, 30 miles north of the port city.

The Retirement Systems of Alabama has a story of revival of its own. Badly underfunded in the 1970s, with only $500 million in the kitty, it was limping along in the shadows of the State Capitol building in Montgomery when some civic leaders recruited Mr. Bronner, then a young financial visionary from Minnesota, to become its chief executive.

At the time, state office workers were housed in dozens of places around Montgomery. One of his first steps, he said, was to devise a plan to consolidate the workers into several large office buildings — largely built by the retirement system.

Mr. Bronner cites other deals that he is proud of, like investing in US Airways when it was in bankruptcy earlier this decade, and buying the 3.8-million-square-foot 55 Water Street, the largest building by floor area in New York City, according to Emporis.com, a Web site with an extensive database on buildings.

From a $500 million start, he has guided the agency into a $28 billion financial juggernaut. Mr. Bronner is fond of dragging reporters to the balcony of the fund’s well-appointed new office complex in Montgomery to gaze out at his symbolic signature — the green-trimmed rooftops of all the buildings that the fund has helped to build.

The fund’s most recent annual report (http://www.rsa-al.gov/About%20RSA/Pubs%20and%20forms/RSA%20Pubs/Annual%20Report/Annual%20Report%202008.pdf)carries an aerial photograph of the city with all of the buildings it has financed taken out of the picture. “It makes a point,” Mr. Bronner said with a grin. “This is what the city would look like without us.”

The retirement system has had an even greater impact in Montgomery than in Mobile — 2.5 million square feet of commercial and state office space — where local commercial real estate developers like Jerry Keyser say investors are now eager to put money into new restaurants, offices and retailing in the city’s downtown, including its new Alleyway project down the block from the retirement system’s recently completed 395,000-square-foot Renaissance Hotel, which includes a 1,800-seat performing arts center and convention hall.

Back in Mobile, pedestrian traffic has returned to downtown day and night, said David Rasp, owner of Heroes, a longtime downtown watering hole, and of the new Royal Scam restaurant near the Battle House. New investors, he noted, are opening restaurants, pubs, boutiques and other ventures despite the current recession.

The Battle House, built in 1852 on the headquarters site for Andrew Jackson in the War of 1812, was a cultural icon for more than a century before it succumbed to age and neglect in the late 1970s. Now it has once again become the cultural heart of Mobile, a place for posh Mardi Gras parties.

It has all been, Mr. Rasp said, a “very, very good idea” for Mobile.

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2009/10/28/business/28alabama_CA1/articleInline.jpg
The Battle House Tower is at the center of a renewal effort in Mobile.

[quattordici]

It is truly amazing what he has done for this state. All of these buildings are top notch and do a great deal for attracting new business and residents. I've been in many of the buildings and they are amazing.

I just hope he keeps up all of this work. I imagine that he'll start some Birmingham investments once the economy picks back up and the Railroad Park gets finished.

[Brown Duckz]

That view of Montgomery has such a D.C. feel..... :cool:

[OCA REP]

That view of Montgomery has such a D.C. feel..... :cool:

I agree. It has a very cosmopolitan look to it!

[OCA REP]

Thats great news i look forward to eating there this week. One more piece of the Montgomery puzzle that was needed. The piece on WSFA tonight was very well done. Cant wait until the next pub crawl on November 20th having SaZa's and Wintzell's including along with the other venues should be a totally awesome time.

It was fantastic! A friend and I ate there on Tuesday evening and really enjoyed it. The servings are rather large, so no one should leave there hungry. According to the menu, they have several options that are just available at lunch, so a return trip during the day is in order.

[Revive Montgomery]

October 28, 2009

Square Feet

Alabama Pension Fund Plows Millions Into Property in Its Own Backyard (http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/28/realestate/commercial/28alabama.html?_r=1)

By DAN LUZADDER

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2009/10/28/business/28alabama_CA0/articleLarge.jpg
David Bronner in front of two buildings in Montgomery that were built by the Retirement Systems of Alabama.

MOBILE, Ala. — When David Bronner, the chief executive of the Retirement Systems of Alabama, the pension fund for public employees in the state, first discussed making a major investment in this city, he had an ultimatum for local leaders: show that you’re willing to rebuild the city’s education system, and the money will flow.

Mr. Bronner, 64, who has steered the fortunes of the retirement system for 36 years, already had what he thought was a good idea. He would help Mobile rebuild its deteriorated downtown and its self-image — starting with the renovation of the Battle House hotel, which had once been the heart of the city’s downtown.

But, first, he wanted a commitment from Mobilians that they were willing to invest in themselves by raising taxes to pay for better education. “Without education, how can we attract business and industry?” Mr. Bronner said.

A bond issue for public school reform was approved in 2003, and two years later it began to rain money in Mobile — an investment by the retirement system of some $650 million so far.

Today, the Battle House hotel, which had been closed for more than three decades, has been restored to its antebellum elegance. Its rooms and suites are as well appointed as any luxury hotel in the region, and its spa has become a draw for tourists.

The hotel lobby connects to the 35-story RSA Battle House Tower, a sparkling 470,000-square-foot high-rise that is the first truly Class A office space in Mobile, offering tenants the highest-quality space and most advanced technology available in the city. At 745 feet, the tower is also the tallest building on the Gulf Coast east of Houston.

The Battle House Tower, which opened in 2007, is just one of a number of investments that Mr. Bronner has shepherded within Mobile.

His agency also built a new cruise port for $16.1 million: the Alabama Cruise Terminal, a 302,000-square-foot docking area that has attracted cruise ships to the city, including some that used New Orleans as a port before Hurricane Katrina. It spent $97.3 million to buy and restore the 534,000-square-foot Grand Hotel across the water on the eastern arm of the Bay of Mobile, after it was damaged by the wind from Katrina. And the fund most recently spent $6.7 million to buy the 300,000-square-foot, 34-story former AmSouth Bank Building, built in 1965. It is under reconstruction for conversion into the city’s second Class A office tower.

Donald Epley, a professor of real estate and the director of the Mitchell College of Business Center for Real Estate Studies at the University of South Alabama in Mobile, said the retirement system’s investments here — and its even larger investments upstate in Alabama’s state capital, Montgomery — reflected a bet not just on the individual projects but also on the state’s economy.

“If you are going to talk about office space, you have to talk about employment, because that is what drives office space,” Mr. Epley said. “So the story is one also of economic development success here.”

The pension fund’s initiatives have inspired small local banks and other lenders to back business development here, Mr. Epley said.

While the fund’s investments have unquestionably helped the city weather the recession a bit better than some metropolitan areas, there have certainly been casualties. A review compiled by the Center for Real Estate Studies in September showed vacancy rates of about 18 percent in the first and second quarter of this year, based on availability in 191 commercial properties of all classes. By contrast, the rate in the first quarter of 2008 was 12.7 percent.

Mr. Bronner’s vision of investing in Alabama reflects an unusual approach for a state pension fund. Most, he said, are content to turn their money over to an investment manager, and most operate from a single goal of enhancing the value of the retirement funds by wise investments.

But Mr. Bronner has a reputation for taking a longer view, and has invested in real estate as a way to create cultural changes in the state. The approach has on occasion made him controversial, with critics suggesting that spending on economic development by building, owning and operating major hotels and office buildings isn’t the purpose of a state pension fund.

Mr. Bronner credits the fund’s investment in hotels and resorts associated with the Robert Trent Jones Golf Trail in Alabama for creating a multibillion-dollar tourist economy in the state. The agency spent more than $23 million building 11 luxury golf courses designed by Robert Trent Jones, and hundreds of millions more to build hotels and residential developments that the agency owns and operates at the courses. That move is credited with helping to attract business, like the immense new ThyssenKrupp Steel USA plant being constructed on the banks of the Mobile River, 30 miles north of the port city.

The Retirement Systems of Alabama has a story of revival of its own. Badly underfunded in the 1970s, with only $500 million in the kitty, it was limping along in the shadows of the State Capitol building in Montgomery when some civic leaders recruited Mr. Bronner, then a young financial visionary from Minnesota, to become its chief executive.

At the time, state office workers were housed in dozens of places around Montgomery. One of his first steps, he said, was to devise a plan to consolidate the workers into several large office buildings — largely built by the retirement system.

Mr. Bronner cites other deals that he is proud of, like investing in US Airways when it was in bankruptcy earlier this decade, and buying the 3.8-million-square-foot 55 Water Street, the largest building by floor area in New York City, according to Emporis.com, a Web site with an extensive database on buildings.

From a $500 million start, he has guided the agency into a $28 billion financial juggernaut. Mr. Bronner is fond of dragging reporters to the balcony of the fund’s well-appointed new office complex in Montgomery to gaze out at his symbolic signature — the green-trimmed rooftops of all the buildings that the fund has helped to build.

The fund’s most recent annual report (http://www.rsa-al.gov/About%20RSA/Pubs%20and%20forms/RSA%20Pubs/Annual%20Report/Annual%20Report%202008.pdf)carries an aerial photograph of the city with all of the buildings it has financed taken out of the picture. “It makes a point,” Mr. Bronner said with a grin. “This is what the city would look like without us.”

The retirement system has had an even greater impact in Montgomery than in Mobile — 2.5 million square feet of commercial and state office space — where local commercial real estate developers like Jerry Keyser say investors are now eager to put money into new restaurants, offices and retailing in the city’s downtown, including its new Alleyway project down the block from the retirement system’s recently completed 395,000-square-foot Renaissance Hotel, which includes a 1,800-seat performing arts center and convention hall.

Back in Mobile, pedestrian traffic has returned to downtown day and night, said David Rasp, owner of Heroes, a longtime downtown watering hole, and of the new Royal Scam restaurant near the Battle House. New investors, he noted, are opening restaurants, pubs, boutiques and other ventures despite the current recession.

The Battle House, built in 1852 on the headquarters site for Andrew Jackson in the War of 1812, was a cultural icon for more than a century before it succumbed to age and neglect in the late 1970s. Now it has once again become the cultural heart of Mobile, a place for posh Mardi Gras parties.

It has all been, Mr. Rasp said, a “very, very good idea” for Mobile.

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2009/10/28/business/28alabama_CA1/articleInline.jpg
The Battle House Tower is at the center of a renewal effort in Mobile.


Only problem is that Montgomery was promised half of the article. It was supposed to be written around Dr. Bronner's contribution to the the cities of Mobile and Montgomery and how the two cities have benefitted and continued their success. The reporter spent a day in Mobile and a day in Montgomery. Looks like he decided to only take a picture of Montgomery before leaving.

In the words of Al Gore, "I demand a rewrite!" :haha:

[Dyingyak]

Bronner walks a very thin line when talking about his projects in terms of revitalization. I'm glad he's investing in downtown in general but wish that he would spread that investment over several smaller properties instead of large scale office complexes.

What happens is that those large buildings tend of absorb a good deal of the prospective office space in a urban environment while leaving smaller buildings vacant. In terms of individual investments of companies, they are more willing to pay a little more to be in an RSA project tower then to renovate and move into an existing building.

Not to say that I don't think what Bronner is doing is bad...I just hope other property owners and investors are willing to "keep up" so to speak.

[OldCloverdale]

I just wish he made the buidlings more inviting -- with ground level shops, restaurants, bars, etc

[OCA REP]

Looks like he decided to only take a picture of Montgomery before leaving.

I thought exactly the opposite when viewing the two photos:

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2009/10/28/business/28alabama_CA0/articleLarge.jpg
http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2009/10/28/business/28alabama_CA1/articleInline.jpg

The Montgomery shot looks totally planned, while the Mobile shot looks like an after-thought.

[OCA REP]

I just wish he made the buidlings more inviting -- with ground level shops, restaurants, bars, etc

Agreed. the many drawbacks of his "fortress" buildings have been much discussed on these forums!

[bystander1]

Bronner walks a very thin line when talking about his projects in terms of revitalization. I'm glad he's investing in downtown in general but wish that he would spread that investment over several smaller properties instead of large scale office complexes.

What happens is that those large buildings tend of absorb a good deal of the prospective office space in a urban environment while leaving smaller buildings vacant. In terms of individual investments of companies, they are more willing to pay a little more to be in an RSA project tower then to renovate and move into an existing building.

Not to say that I don't think what Bronner is doing is bad...I just hope other property owners and investors are willing to "keep up" so to speak.


Yes, thanks to those investments, other investors have been forced to "keep up" if they want people to rent their buildings. For years they were content to let their -B/C class buildings deteriorate in the city's core, while companies left those buildings for the "plaster and metal" buildings out east. RSA's investments are bringing more life back downtown than there would be had Bronner not invested.

One big beneficiary: the Alley.

[bystander1]

Speaking of the Alley...


Trolley service opens next week
By Jill Nolin • October 29, 2009
http://www.montgomeryadvertiser.com (www.montgomeryadvertiser.com/article/20091029/NEWS01/910290347/Trolley+service+opens+next+week")

The city's new trolley lines, which will be called the Enter­tainment Express, will roll out one week from today.

The trolley routes, which will link Old Cloverdale and Maxwell Air Force Base to downtown Montgomery, originally were set to start last week, but that date was postponed so city offi­cials could iron out a few issues.

But city officials don't antici­pate further complications that could keep the trolleys from be­ginning their runs next Thurs­day, according to city Planning Director Ken Groves. A ceremo­nial event is being planned for the inaugural ride, which likely will include Mayor Todd Strange as a passenger.

As this trolley program be­gins, another one ends. The lunch trolley, which offered free rides to those looking to dine at a downtown restaurant, was dis­continued after running for the last time last Wednesday, ac­cording to Montgomery Area Transit System General Manag­er Kelvin Miller.

While ridership on the lunch trolley started out strong, it eventually dwindled and never improved. City officials are hopeful that ridership on the En­tertainment Express lines will fare better. They're at least will­ing to find out.
"If you don't try things, some­times you don't learn anything," Groves said Wednesday. "You don't really know until you put the routes out there and try it," he added.

The fare will be $1 per person.

The trolleys will run from 6:30 to 11:30 p.m. Thursday, Friday and Saturday. Groves said that if the demand is there, the city will consider extending the hours to accommodate early morning riders.
"That's our objective -- to pro­vide the services that people want," Groves said.

The Entertainment Express will target both those who do not have their own transportation, such as an airman who is only in the area temporarily, and those who plan to imbibe while out on the town.

Groves said that MATS and Maxwell Air Force Base current­ly are working together to estab­lish a security procedure so that the trolley actually can go on base and pick up passengers. If this does not work out, the pas­sengers would be picked up at the visitor's center at the Bell Street gate.

"If we can solve the security is­sues, it will be able to go on base. That's the desire for maximum convenience," Groves said.
Establishing the security pro­cedure is part of what has caused the delay in starting the new trolley routes. Also, more time was needed to prepare the equip­ment and get the word out to the public.

There will be a couple of desig­nated stops on both routes, meaning the trolley will not make spontaneous stops as the regular MATS buses do. The purpose of this is to keep the trolleys on schedule, with the ob­jective being a 15-minute one-way trip for riders.

The two stops in Old Clo­verdale will be Cloverdale Five Points and the Cloverdale Vil­lage, or the A&P Lofts. The stops on base have not been de­termined because the security procedure has not yet been es­tablished and approved.

[OCA REP]

From today's Montgomery Advertiser:

http://www.montgomeryadvertiser.com/article/20091030/NEWS01/910300350&referrer=FRONTPAGECAROUSEL

Harriott II in Familiar Hands
By Jill Nolin • jnolin@gannett.com • October 30, 2009

No training or transition was needed for the new captain and first mate of Montgomery's riverboat, the Harriott II.

http://cmsimg.montgomeryadvertiser.com/apps/pbcsi.dll/bilde?Site=DS&Date=20091030&Category=NEWS01&ArtNo=910300350&Ref=AR&Profile=1007&MaxW=550&MaxH=650&title=0

Capt. Jim Kittrell recently spent three years as the riverboat's captain in Savannah and the first mate, John Allen, cut his sailor's teeth while working for Kittrell.

Both have relocated to Montgomery to take the helm of the 400-passenger riverboat, which initially arrived in town one year ago tomorrow. They bring with them a familiarity with the riverboat, which was called the River Queen in Savannah, and a vast experience from working at one of the busiest ports in the country.

"I keep wanting to look down the river and see a ship coming, and it never happens," said Allen of his experience so far while working on the much more subdued Alabama River.

Allen, a licensed riverboat captain, actually earned his status as a captain through the hours worked on the River Queen.

"This boat here has a special meaning to me," Allen said while standing on the dock before embarking on a night cruise earlier this week.

The duo's experience includes working for a company, not a municipality and foundation, and doing four cruises on an average day and five to seven cruises on a busy day. The city of Montgomery, which started offering cruises in March, hopes that experience will help attract more riders here.

Savannah offers a natural advantage for industrious riverboat captains -- captains who may have to work a little harder to achieve similar results in Montgomery. That's because Savannah's tourism industry brings in most of the people who board the multiple riverboats there. It also means many of the riders may only be one-time customers.

That is not the situation in Montgomery, according to Branch Kloess, director of the city's riverfront facilities. The success of the Harriott II depends on repeat customers.

"We've got to make a good first impression. We've got to make sure customers have a great time on our boat, with everything from attention to detail to food to the quality of the ride. We have to have the total package from the get-go to the end," Kloess said.

"That's important for us to make a good impression, because when we don't make a good impression, these people don't come back," he added.

Right now, the riverboat's night cruises include a praise cruise on Tuesdays, a commerce dinner cruise on Wednesdays, a dinner cruise on Fridays and a blues cruise on Sundays.

The Friday and Sunday cruises are the most popular -- a cautionary note on the city's Web site urges people to buy tickets for these nights far in advance -- and the Wednesday cruise has had the weakest ridership.

Educational daytime cruises are offered from late February to May and September to November.

Kloess said he has already started brainstorming ideas for new cruises with Kittrell and Allen. He mentioned a singles cruise or a children's cruise as ideas for possible cruises in the future.

Changes are also being made to the boat's appearance to give it a more formal look, according to Kloess.

Kittrell is replacing former riverboat captain John Bull, who actually brought the boat from Savannah to Montgomery during a 49-day, 1,400-mile sea voyage. Bull satisfied his six-month contract with the city and then submitted a letter of resignation on Sept. 25 after new terms could not be negotiated.

Bull and the city were at odds over which party should pay withholding taxes for the employees working on the riverboat, who are contract employees. Bull wrote in his letter that he and his wife could not "assume additional financial burdens," but he indicated that he also refused to cut the pay of his employees, which was a proposed solution to covering the cost of the withholding taxes.

The city's contract with Kittrell is similar to Bull's contract with the city, according to Kloess. Less will go to the management of the Harriott since there are now two people instead of three people running the boat. Previously, Bull ran the boat with his wife and a first mate.

The contracts with Kittrell and Allen have not been signed at this point but could be signed by Friday, Kloess said. Both are currently employed as sub-contractors.

Kittrell said he was interested in the position because his 11-year-old daughter lives in Columbus, Ga., and because he wants to help Montgomery grow its new riverboat program.

"This is a new thing. We wanted to be part of getting it going," Kittrell said.
Kittrell, who has worked on several riverboats during his career, is no stranger to the Capital City. He has worked relief for Bull on the Betsy Ann, which used to operate in Montgomery, and more recently, on the Harriott II.

He also worked as a riverboat captain in Columbus for five years and in Knoxville, Tenn.

Kittrell was one of four people considered for the job, according to Kloess, who said Kittrell's previous experience on the Alabama River "obviously was attractive to us." Kloess said he was impressed with the Kittrell-Allen team and the fact Kittrell has a degree in marketing.

The Montgomery Riverfront Development Foundation owns the boat and is responsible for paying back a $700,000 loan to buy and bring the riverboat here, but the city is managing the boat.

As of mid-October, more than $550,000 has been collected through the operation of the riverboat, with the city expecting to collect at least $20,000 over budget for the 2009 fiscal year. The riverboat's income has covered the monthly loan note of $8,000, and the additional $20,000-plus will go toward the debt.

[OCA REP]

Speaking of the Alley...

Trolley service opens next week
By Jill Nolin • October 29, 2009
http://www.montgomeryadvertiser.com

The city's new trolley lines, which will be called the Enter­tainment Express, will roll out one week from today.

The trolley routes, which will link Old Cloverdale and Maxwell Air Force Base to downtown Montgomery, originally were set to start last week, but that date was postponed so city offi­cials could iron out a few issues.

But city officials don't antici­pate further complications that could keep the trolleys from be­ginning their runs next Thurs­day, according to city Planning Director Ken Groves. A ceremo­nial event is being planned for the inaugural ride, which likely will include Mayor Todd Strange as a passenger.

As this trolley program be­gins, another one ends. The lunch trolley, which offered free rides to those looking to dine at a downtown restaurant, was dis­continued after running for the last time last Wednesday, ac­cording to Montgomery Area Transit System General Manag­er Kelvin Miller.

While ridership on the lunch trolley started out strong, it eventually dwindled and never improved. City officials are hopeful that ridership on the En­tertainment Express lines will fare better. They're at least will­ing to find out.
"If you don't try things, some­times you don't learn anything," Groves said Wednesday. "You don't really know until you put the routes out there and try it," he added.

The fare will be $1 per person.

The trolleys will run from 6:30 to 11:30 p.m. Thursday, Friday and Saturday. Groves said that if the demand is there, the city will consider extending the hours to accommodate early morning riders.
"That's our objective -- to pro­vide the services that people want," Groves said.

The Entertainment Express will target both those who do not have their own transportation, such as an airman who is only in the area temporarily, and those who plan to imbibe while out on the town.

Groves said that MATS and Maxwell Air Force Base current­ly are working together to estab­lish a security procedure so that the trolley actually can go on base and pick up passengers. If this does not work out, the pas­sengers would be picked up at the visitor's center at the Bell Street gate.

"If we can solve the security is­sues, it will be able to go on base. That's the desire for maximum convenience," Groves said.
Establishing the security pro­cedure is part of what has caused the delay in starting the new trolley routes. Also, more time was needed to prepare the equip­ment and get the word out to the public.

There will be a couple of desig­nated stops on both routes, meaning the trolley will not make spontaneous stops as the regular MATS buses do. The purpose of this is to keep the trolleys on schedule, with the ob­jective being a 15-minute one-way trip for riders.

The two stops in Old Clo­verdale will be Cloverdale Five Points and the Cloverdale Vil­lage, or the A&P Lofts. The stops on base have not been de­termined because the security procedure has not yet been es­tablished and approved.

We (those of us in Old Cloverdale) are excited about the new nightime trolley route that will link our neighborhood to downtown and then on to Maxwell AFB. I invited Kelvin Miller, Director of MATS, to our October OCA meeting and he conducted a presentation and outlined the route and its stops.

He took questions and listened to comments from our group and one one of the adjustments that was made to the "Entertainment Express" route was the beginning and end times. Initially the route was to run from 6:00 PM to 10:00 PM. The general concensus was that the start and end times were both too early. After that, the times were adjusted to 6:30 PM and 11:30 PM.

Old Cloverdale is home to the only independent cinema in the city, the Capri Theatre, and these new times would allow someone from Maxwell AFB (or downtown) to utilize the trolley service to make the first show on weekend nights. Similarly, during baseball season, the trolley could be used by Maxwell AFB visitors and Cloverdale residents to attend Montgomery Biscuits baseball games.

We look forward to next Thursday evening!

[OldCloverdale]

October 30, 2009

Harriott II in familiar hands

http://www.montgomeryadvertiser.com/article/20091030/NEWS01/910300350&referrer=FRONTPAGECAROUSEL

By Jill Nolin
jnolin@gannett.com

No training or transition was needed for the new captain and first mate of Montgomery's riverboat, the Harriott II.

Capt. Jim Kittrell recently spent three years as the riverboat's captain in Savannah and the first mate, John Allen, cut his sailor's teeth while working for Kittrell.

Both have relocated to Montgomery to take the helm of the 400-passenger riverboat, which initially arrived in town one year ago tomorrow. They bring with them a familiarity with the riverboat, which was called the River Queen in Savannah, and a vast experience from working at one of the busiest ports in the country.

"I keep wanting to look down the river and see a ship coming, and it never happens," said Allen of his experience so far while working on the much more subdued Alabama River.

Allen, a licensed riverboat captain, actually earned his status as a captain through the hours worked on the River Queen.

"This boat here has a special meaning to me," Allen said while standing on the dock before embarking on a night cruise earlier this week.

The duo's experience includes working for a company, not a municipality and foundation, and doing four cruises on an average day and five to seven cruises on a busy day. The city of Montgomery, which started offering cruises in March, hopes that experience will help attract more riders here.

Savannah offers a natural advantage for industrious riverboat captains -- captains who may have to work a little harder to achieve similar results in Montgomery. That's because Savannah's tourism industry brings in most of the people who board the multiple riverboats there. It also means many of the riders may only be one-time customers.

That is not the situation in Montgomery, according to Branch Kloess, director of the city's riverfront facilities. The success of the Harriott II depends on repeat customers.

"We've got to make a good first impression. We've got to make sure customers have a great time on our boat, with everything from attention to detail to food to the quality of the ride. We have to have the total package from the get-go to the end," Kloess said.

"That's important for us to make a good impression, because when we don't make a good impression, these people don't come back," he added.

Right now, the riverboat's night cruises include a praise cruise on Tuesdays, a commerce dinner cruise on Wednesdays, a dinner cruise on Fridays and a blues cruise on Sundays.

The Friday and Sunday cruises are the most popular -- a cautionary note on the city's Web site urges people to buy tickets for these nights far in advance -- and the Wednesday cruise has had the weakest ridership.

Educational daytime cruises are offered from late February to May and September to November.

Kloess said he has already started brainstorming ideas for new cruises with Kittrell and Allen. He mentioned a singles cruise or a children's cruise as ideas for possible cruises in the future.

Changes are also being made to the boat's appearance to give it a more formal look, according to Kloess.

Kittrell is replacing former riverboat captain John Bull, who actually brought the boat from Savannah to Montgomery during a 49-day, 1,400-mile sea voyage. Bull satisfied his six-month contract with the city and then submitted a letter of resignation on Sept. 25 after new terms could not be negotiated.

Bull and the city were at odds over which party should pay withholding taxes for the employees working on the riverboat, who are contract employees. Bull wrote in his letter that he and his wife could not "assume additional financial burdens," but he indicated that he also refused to cut the pay of his employees, which was a proposed solution to covering the cost of the withholding taxes.

The city's contract with Kittrell is similar to Bull's contract with the city, according to Kloess. Less will go to the management of the Harriott since there are now two people instead of three people running the boat. Previously, Bull ran the boat with his wife and a first mate.

The contracts with Kittrell and Allen have not been signed at this point but could be signed by Friday, Kloess said. Both are currently employed as sub-contractors.

Kittrell said he was interested in the position because his 11-year-old daughter lives in Columbus, Ga., and because he wants to help Montgomery grow its new riverboat program.

"This is a new thing. We wanted to be part of getting it going," Kittrell said.

Kittrell, who has worked on several riverboats during his career, is no stranger to the Capital City. He has worked relief for Bull on the Betsy Ann, which used to operate in Montgomery, and more recently, on the Harriott II.

He also worked as a riverboat captain in Columbus for five years and in Knoxville, Tenn.

Kittrell was one of four people considered for the job, according to Kloess, who said Kittrell's previous experience on the Alabama River "obviously was attractive to us." Kloess said he was impressed with the Kittrell-Allen team and the fact Kittrell has a degree in marketing.

The Montgomery Riverfront Development Foundation owns the boat and is responsible for paying back a $700,000 loan to buy and bring the riverboat here, but the city is managing the boat.

As of mid-October, more than $550,000 has been collected through the operation of the riverboat, with the city expecting to collect at least $20,000 over budget for the 2009 fiscal year. The riverboat's income has covered the monthly loan note of $8,000, and the additional $20,000-plus will go toward the debt.

[OldCloverdale]

October 30, 2009

BB&T expects to take time on fate of Colonial headquarters (http://www.montgomeryadvertiser.com/article/20091030/NEWS01/910300364/BB&T+expects+to+take+time+on+fate+of+Colonial+headquarters)

http://cmsimg.montgomeryadvertiser.com/apps/pbcsi.dll/bilde?Site=DS&Date=20091030&Category=NEWS01&ArtNo=910300364&Ref=AR&MaxW=318&Border=0
BB&T has until Jan. 31, 2010, to decide what to do with the former Colonial building off Interstate 85 in east Montgomery.

^^ MA should've gotten a current picture of the buiding, with temporary BB&T signage ^^

By Cosby Woodruff
cwoodruff@gannett.com

BB&T still doesn't know whether it will keep the former headquarters of Colonial BancGroup, but it does know that it is the owner of Colonial's corporate jet -- whether it wants to be or not.

BB&T acquired both the jet and the headquarters of Colonial, the only business with its headquarters in Montgomery that had been listed on Standard & Poor's index, from the FDIC after the bank was seized Aug. 14.

BB&T earlier said it would make a decision on whether it will keep Colonial's former headquarters in east Montgomery in September, then delayed the decision until October.

Now, BB&T spokeswoman A.C. McGraw said the bank expects to use most of the 170 days it has been given to make the decision before making a final determination on the property.

"We are still evaluating our real estate needs in that market," she said.

The 170 days deadline began Aug. 14, the date when BB&T acquired Colonial, after the company's stock was frozen and regulators from the Alabama State Banking Department seized the bank and turned its assets over to the FDIC.

That puts the deadline for BB&T to decide on whether to keep or sell Colonial's former headquarters at Jan. 31, 2010.

It took the North Carolina-based bank almost no time to decide it didn't want Colonial's executive jet.

Officials there announced shortly after BB&T acquired many of Colonial's assets in August that they did not want the airplane, which was at Montgomery Regional Airport, as part of the deal and that they would try to avoid taking it.

But it has been determined that the plane was part of the assets that BB&T acquired from the company.

Now that it's been determined that it is BB&T's plane, McGraw said the bank will sell the aircraft as soon as it can.

In fact, pilots hired by BB&T recently flew the plane, a Bombardier Challenger 605 valued new at more than $25 million, to Winston-Salem.

BB&T has contracted with a broker to list the plane for sale, but McGraw did not know how it would be marketed or what price BB&T would seek.

The bank spent days earlier this month covering every Colonial sign it could find with temporary signs, including the former headquarters building just off Interstate 85 at the Mitylene exit. That building is perhaps the most visible sign of Montgomery's erstwhile lone public company, and it will be at least a little longer before its future is known.

At this time, Colonial's failure in August remains the largest bank failure of 2009.

[bystander1]

[/indent]

We (those of us in Old Cloverdale) are excited about the new nightime trolley route that will link our neighborhood to downtown and then on to Maxwell AFB. I invited Kelvin Miller, Director of MATS, to our October OCA meeting and he conducted a presentation and outlined the route and its stops.

He took questions and listened to comments from our group and one one of the adjustments that was made to the "Entertainment Express" route was the beginning and end times. Initially the route was to run from 6:00 PM to 10:00 PM. The general concensus was that the start and end times were both too early. After that, the times were adjusted to 6:30 PM and 11:30 PM.

Old Cloverdale is home to the only independent cinema in the city, the Capri Theatre, and these new times would allow someone from Maxwell AFB (or downtown) to utilize the trolley service to make the first show on weekend nights. Similarly, during baseball season, the trolley could be used by Maxwell AFB visitors and Cloverdale residents to attend Montgomery Biscuits baseball games.

We look forward to next Thursday evening!


That was very good on your part to invite Kelvin Miller to talk at the OCA meeting. Thanks to that input, the trolley times are much more suitable in my opinion.

[bystander1]

Isn't this about the umpteenth time this thing has been proposed?...



Carriage rides may be coming to downtown
By Jill Nolin • October 31, 2009
http://www.montgomeryadvertiser.com (http://www.montgomeryadvertiser.com/article/20091031/NEWS01/910310324/1007/archives)

Downtown redevelopment in Montgomery has taken numer­ous steps forward during the past few years. Now, it may take a step backward -- back to the time of horse-drawn carriages.

Montgomery resident Fre­drick Thomas wants to begin of­fering horse-drawn carriage rides in downtown Montgomery by mid-November. Before that can be done the city must ap­prove it.
The city wants the service. Montgomery Mayor Todd Strange hailed the concept as a fitting complement to the revi­talization already occurring downtown.

But there's a problem.
Right now, Thomas cannot be licensed as a carriage service be­cause he does not fit into a cate­gory in the city's code of ordi­nances. The city, which wants the new service, is quickly try­ing to change that.
"You can't give a license to something you don't have a cate­gory for, and we don't have a cat­egory for horse-drawn carriages. We probably did in 1930," Strange said.

Thomas, who is on the agenda for Tuesday's City Council meet­ing, plans to address the City Council during its work session Tuesday afternoon. Thomas said he has studied up on the ordi­nances addressing horse-drawn carriages in other cities and wants to help Montgomery draft its ordinance.

A similar situation occurred when a hotdog vendor wanted to sell hotdogs in downtown, but an ordinance had to be passed so that a vending district could be created downtown.

There is an unattractive issue that must be addressed in the horse-drawn carriage ordinance -- what will be done with the horse droppings? Thomas pro­poses that he be allowed to use a horse diaper, which would be emptied regularly, and treat any waste that hits the street with a deodorizing chemical.

This is how it is done in Savan­nah. But the city of Savannah also charges animal-drawn vehi­cle businesses a monthly sanita­tion fee to help cover the expense of using city crews to keep the streets clean.
It is not clear at this time how long it will take for an ordinance to be put on the books, but Strange expressed his unre­served support for the change during his Friday media brief­ing. The City Council must ap­prove the ordinance.

Once Thomas receives his li­cense, he will be ready to start of­fering an array of rides and packages. Thomas has already acquired a carriage, and his pro­spective horses are currently be­ing evaluated and readied for what can be stressful work for horses.

The downtown redevelopment that has already occurred makes Thomas optimistic that his busi­ness venture will be a success here, just as it has been cities such as Atlanta and Savannah.
"There's a demand for it," Thomas said. "I think it's going to do very well."
Thomas's business will offer historic and basic downtown tours, but a more glamorous ro­mantic tour is available and could include alcohol and roses. There might also be a package for a meal at a downtown busi­ness and a ride in the carriage.

Special packages for wed­dings, birthdays, proms and an­niversaries -- or any other spe­cial event -- will also be available. The carriage will also offer a special setting for a mar­riage proposal, Thomas said.
"If you want to ask that ques­tion in a special way, we will pro­vide an opportunity to do that in the carriage. We will make it the best way possible and something unique for you," said Thomas, who has been trained in Ocala, Fla., on how to drive a horse-drawn carriage.

Drivers will wear a uniform, with the everyday attire being a bow tie, vest, slacks and top hat. Tuxedoes will be worn for spe­cial occasions. The rides will likely cost $10 or $15 for adults and $5 for children, but the pack­ages will cost more.

The 36-year-old has been the director of the Montgomery Therapeutic Recreation Center, where he works with children and adults with disabilities, for eight years and has been with the city of Montgomery for a to­tal of 15 years. Thomas started the horse-riding classes at the center about eight years ago, and the quarter horses used for that program are his own.
Although both Thomas and the city hope the carriage serv­ice will be part of Montgomery's downtown redevelopment, the service will not be affiliated with the city of Montgomery.

[bystander1]

Isn't this about the umpteenth time this thing has been proposed?...



ASU eyes top-notch football stadium
By Adrienne Nettles • October 31, 2009
http://www.montgomeryadvertiser.com (http://www.montgomeryadvertiser.com/article/20091031/NEWS01/910310323/1007/archives)

On the evening before the Mag­ic City Classic, Alabama State Uni­versity officials and trustees met in Birmingham to revive a univer­sity vision to build a state-of-the art, multipurpose football stadium to host Hornet football games and possibly other sports and enter­tainment events.

The ASU board of trustees held a workshop Friday at the Winfrey Hotel in Birmingham to discuss how to get the proposed project off the ground and the necessary stakeholders, such as the city of Montgomery, that are needed to make the project a reality.

The discussion took place on the eve before the 68th Magic City Classic football game between ASU and Alabama A&M, another historically black college. The an­nual match-up kicks off at 2:30 p.m. today in Birmingham.
"(This) is something more than the idea of a stadium," ASU Presi­dent William Harris said. "It's also about what kind of football pro­gram we want and whether it would just be our stadium."

School leaders suggested the new stadium could help with the recruitment of athletes on the na­tional level and improve the quali­ty of student life on ASU's campus.
University officials said replac­ing the existing Hornet stadium is long overdue. It is no longer in use by ASU's football team, other than as a practice field. The team cur­rently hosts its home games at Crampton Bowl in Montgomery, said Sterling Steward, ASU's in­terim athletic director.
Gene Hallman, executive direc­tor of the Alabama Sports Founda­tion, told trustees that ASU needs to consider entering partnerships to bring the new stadium project to fruition.

"If Alabama State University tried to do this own its own it would be cost prohibitive because of the debt service," said Hallman, whose foundation manages the Magic City Classic and several other sporting events in the state.

Hallman was brought in by the foundation's founder and chair­man, Larry Lemak, who also serves on the ASU board of trus­tees, to oversee planning for the university's proposed stadium project, along with members of the board's athletics committee. Both Hallman and Lemak have exten­sive experience in the planning and development of the proposed dome stadium in Birmingham that will replace Legion Field as the new home for the Magic City Classic.

The Alabama Sports Founda­tion will develop a set of recom­mendations regarding the first steps needed to do a feasibility study for the stadium project, in­cluding researching the cost, fi­nancing, the stakeholders that will use or pay for the facility and ar­chitectural firms that could build such a venue. Their recommenda­tions are expected to be presented to ASU's board of trustees at its February board meeting.

Hallman said that the universi­ty has the potential to draw in oth­ers with the project, including the city of Montgomery, state groups and organizations in the private sector.
"This (Magic City Classic) weekend is the single biggest weekend for sports tourism this year because it happening the same weekend as NASCAR is in Talladega," Hall told trustees. "Sports tourism is big. This week­end demonstrates how sports tour­ism can have a huge economic im­pact on a community."

The idea of a stadium for the ASU Hornets is not new, universi­ty officials said on Friday. In 2000, the university also entertained a vision for a new Hornet stadium, even creating a video explaining the meaning of university-owned stadium.
Trustee chairman Elton Dean said the university is moving in the right direction with its other capital projects, which include new student housing and educa­tion facilities to improve student life campus. The only thing miss­ing is a quality stadium, he said.

"We've got an organization that is growing, NCAA, and a great coaching staff," Dean said. "We got in place what we've needed for years. We've got to have it all. We're not going to stop short of try­ing to get a stadium."

[quattordici]

The city of Montgomery needs a good stadium. ASU and the city need to work together to build a really nice one. Building a good one would help the university and the city. Whatever happens, it needs to be built in a way that would allow it to be expanded in the future.

[rbp]

What ever happened to the major upgrades to Cramton Bowl? Wasn't there a deal between the city and ASU to make renovations there?

[OldCloverdale]

Downtown Montgomery has a new kind of 'Horse Power' (http://www.wsfa.com/global/Category.asp?C=151146&clipId=&topVideoCatNo=93080&topVideoCatNoB=97608&topVideoCatNoC=153813&topVideoCatNoD=92106&topVideoCatNoE=95084&clipId=4259281&topVideoCatNo=14994&autoStart=true)

[OldCloverdale]

ASU eyes top-notch football stadium
By Adrienne Nettles
http://www.montgomeryadvertiser.com

...University officials said replac­ing the existing Hornet stadium is long overdue. It is no longer in use by ASU's football team, other than as a practice field. The team cur­rently hosts its home games at Crampton Bowl in Montgomery


"Crampton" = pet peeve

it's Cramton, Ms. Nettles

[rbp]

"Crampton" = pet peeve

it's Cramton, Ms. Nettles

Montgomery seems to have more than its fair share of unique spellings.

Frazer not Frazier
Paterson not Patterson
Molton not Moulton

[Jefficator]

MONTGOMERY, Ala.--(Business Wire)--
Integrated Computer Solutions, a leading provider of information security and
technology consulting services, announced today that it will be relocating its
corporate headquarters in late-November to 60 Commerce Street in Downtown Montgomery, Alabama. The new location will accommodate the company`s current staff while allowing for further expansion.

"This move represents a positive step in the growth of our company," said Chip Schuneman, Chief Operating Officer of ICS, Inc. "Montgomery has consistently provided the ability to attract talented professionals to our team while offering all of our team members a high quality of life at an advantageous cost of living. We are proud to support Montgomery's downtown revitalization efforts, while continuing to make ICS an even better place to work for our team members," he said.

Located in Montgomery, Alabama since its inception in 1997, ICS, Inc. is a premier information security and technology consulting firm with operating locations throughout the United States. ICS provides a robust portfolio of technology and information security services to an increasing number of Federal, State, and Fortune 1000 clients. The services that ICS offers include outsourcing, staff augmentation and support, network penetration testing, application vulnerability testing, disaster recovery and business continuity planning, risk assessments, WAN optimization, forensics, and incident response services.

"In selecting a new office, we wanted to be closer to our customers, improve team member commutes, provide a professional environment in which to work as well as provide access to first class amenities for our team and customers," Schuneman added. "The Commerce Street location in Downtown Montgomery offers all of that and more. We look forward to contributing to the revitalization initiatives going on within our city."

Recent statistics from the City of Montgomery and The Montgomery Area Chamber of Commerce indicate that Montgomery's downtown is home to over 57,000 daytime workers and over 110,000 residents live within 5 miles of the heart of Montgomery's downtown renaissance district.

24 Communications
Jennifer Solt, 334-260-4015
jennifer@2wenty4.com

[OldCloverdale]

they're moving downtown from 200 Interstate Park Drive

good for them

[OCA REP]

MONTGOMERY, Ala.--(Business Wire)--
Integrated Computer Solutions, a leading provider of information security and
technology consulting services, announced today that it will be relocating its
corporate headquarters in late-November to 60 Commerce Street in Downtown Montgomery, Alabama. The new location will accommodate the company`s current staff while allowing for further expansion.

"This move represents a positive step in the growth of our company," said Chip Schuneman, Chief Operating Officer of ICS, Inc. "Montgomery has consistently provided the ability to attract talented professionals to our team while offering all of our team members a high quality of life at an advantageous cost of living. We are proud to support Montgomery's downtown revitalization efforts, while continuing to make ICS an even better place to work for our team members," he said.

Located in Montgomery, Alabama since its inception in 1997, ICS, Inc. is a premier information security and technology consulting firm with operating locations throughout the United States. ICS provides a robust portfolio of technology and information security services to an increasing number of Federal, State, and Fortune 1000 clients. The services that ICS offers include outsourcing, staff augmentation and support, network penetration testing, application vulnerability testing, disaster recovery and business continuity planning, risk assessments, WAN optimization, forensics, and incident response services.

"In selecting a new office, we wanted to be closer to our customers, improve team member commutes, provide a professional environment in which to work as well as provide access to first class amenities for our team and customers," Schuneman added. "The Commerce Street location in Downtown Montgomery offers all of that and more. We look forward to contributing to the revitalization initiatives going on within our city."

Recent statistics from the City of Montgomery and The Montgomery Area Chamber of Commerce indicate that Montgomery's downtown is home to over 57,000 daytime workers and over 110,000 residents live within 5 miles of the heart of Montgomery's downtown renaissance district.

24 Communications
Jennifer Solt, 334-260-4015
jennifer@2wenty4.com

This is GREAT news for downtown Montgomery. 60 Commerce is my old home when I was with Regions Technology. Spent many years on several different floors in that tower. For any of you that are not aware, this is the old Union Bank building.

[bystander1]

"Crampton" = pet peeve

it's Cramton, Ms. Nettles

Nope, she spelled it right. "Cramp" being the operative part of the word...

[bystander1]

The city of Montgomery needs a good stadium. ASU and the city need to work together to build a really nice one. Building a good one would help the university and the city. Whatever happens, it needs to be built in a way that would allow it to be expanded in the future.

ASU lost that opportunity to work with the city to upgrade Cramton Bowl years ago, and in fact, needs to have it's own stadium on campus as it has proposed 18 1/2 times since 1997.

The city should have worked with Troy University to upgrade/rebuild Cramton Bowl back when Troy began their push to go I-A a few years ago. They needed a stadium that was large enough to accommodate some I-A teams that would agree to a home-and-home series. They mentioned that some teams would do so, though they were not willing to travel to Troy to play but would be willing to play them in a larger, upgraded facility in Montgomery.

Thus the push by TU to try to establish a relationship with the city similar to what UA had with Birmingham. But the mayor at that time was not interested in major renovations to Cramton Bowl, even though ASU was in talks on one of their many proposals to build their own stadium on campus at the time.

So, does the city need a new or updated stadium? No doubt about it, definitely yes. Should ASU be involved? I don't think it should. They need their own stadium on campus which is an important part of the college experience.

[Jefficator]

Montgomery Public Schools Superintendent Barbara Thompson is proposing a district-wide study of school facilities, which could include looking at whether the district needs to consolidate its central office sites. It could also cause the board to once again evaluate the fate of schools such as Pintlala and Hayneville Road.

Thompson said Thursday she plans to recommend that the Montgomery County Board of Education enter into a contract Nov. 17 with TCU Consulting of Montgomery to conduct the study.

The new facilities study will be a follow up to the school district's 2006 DeJong study that examined the efficiency and utilization of Montgomery school facilities, Thompson said.

"This is a natural follow up from that report," Thompson said. "The DeJong study recommends that a new study be done at least every three years."

If the study is approved by the school board, it could renew talks about moving the district's administrative offices to a central location, and a former member of the board of education is suggesting that his Taylor Road building could serve the district's need.

Thompson said it was too early to speculate on the recommendations of TCU, including moving the district's administrative offices, which are spread over 14 different locations. The district's main central office is on Decatur Street in downtown Montgomery.

"We'll have to look at what they're recommending," Thompson said, declining to speculate on whether TCU would recommend moving the central office and consolidating its off site offices. "Maybe they want us to sell off some buildings. I don't know."

Former school board member Tommie Miller, who served on the board from 2000 to 2006, said Thursday that he would be willing allow the school district to use a portion of his Southern Guaranty Insurance building at 2545 Taylor Road to use as the district's central office.

"I'd make it available to them at a very, very affordable rate," Miller said. "I'd be most happy to make it available to them because they need to rent a building. It would be my contribution to education."

Keep Reading (http://www.montgomeryadvertiser.com/article/20091106/NEWS01/911060310&referrer=FRONTPAGECAROUSEL)

[Jefficator]

Former school board member Tommie Miller, who served on the board from 2000 to 2006, said Thursday that he would be willing allow the school district to use a portion of his Southern Guaranty Insurance building at 2545 Taylor Road to use as the district's central office.

"I'd make it available to them at a very, very affordable rate," Miller said. "I'd be most happy to make it available to them because they need to rent a building. It would be my contribution to education."

Keep Reading (http://www.montgomeryadvertiser.com/article/20091106/NEWS01/911060310&referrer=FRONTPAGECAROUSEL)

This is a terrible, terrible idea. If we're ever going to achieve a vibrant, thriving downtown, we need to push more workers into the area and stop encouraging movement out.

Everyone please call MPS today and demand they consolidate in downtown Montgomery and participate in the revitalization of that area.

[Revive Montgomery]

This is a terrible, terrible idea. If we're ever going to achieve a vibrant, thriving downtown, we need to push more workers into the area and stop encouraging movement out.

Everyone please call MPS today and demand they consolidate in downtown Montgomery and participate in the revitalization of that area.

Umm...Unless i have lost my mind, Tommie isn't the one who owns that building and it is in talks for other ventures. I could have sworn it was in possession of the Crews family.

I agree with you. That would be a total sham.

[OldCloverdale]

BREAKING NEWS!

Service at The Exchange at the Renaissance Montgomery Hotel & Spa at the Convention Center still sucks.

That is all.

[Scoots71]

MONTGOMERY, AL (WSFA) - Greenville, South Carolina. Population? 60,000, tucked away at the foothills of the Blue Ridge Mountains in what's known around here as the Upstate.

But locals will tell you their crown jewel is much closer to the ground. Main Street which is the 'main' attraction for Tonya Toran.

"Oh, this is a big deal to us because it's a place where the entire family can come," said Toran who moved to Greenville from Baltimore, Maryland.

A big deal that started 30 years ago, a time business owner Deb Ayers remembers all too well.

"It had become a rather ugly downtown. We were all trying to be contemporary," said Ayers recalling downtown having that '70s look.

For Greenville it came down to this; let downtown go forever or do something. City leaders chose the latter and this is the result of vision, a lot of money and a commitment that shows no sign of wavering.

"We took risks," said the city's Economic Development Director Nancy Whitworth.

Overlooking the city from atop of city hall, Whitworth says it was the so-called public-private partnership that got it going, a fuzzy beaucratic sounding phrase that simply encourages private investors to take a chance on downtown once public tax dollars are committed.

"The public sector is the spark plug, the private sector is really the engine," said Whitworth.

And it's been full steam ever since. Hundreds of millions of dollars in federal grants, downtown property taxes and some city money, paved the way for what it now a 3-mile stretch of beautiful trees, period lighting, specialty shops, restaurants and Greenville's new minor league baseball stadium. Montgomery hopes to look something like this down the road.

"We're thought of as downtown as everybody's neighborhood," said Whitworth.

Not necessarily. We ran into Rufus Salters.

"They need to explore a little movie theatre and maybe arena football," said Salters.

Not far from this interview with Salters we did find a couple of empty buildings, clearly indicating that even the best laid plans can lose focus.

"You can't always predict what the market will do. Some things will work, some things will not. You step back and regroup," Whitworth said.

In fact, for about 10 years nothing really moved in downtown Greenville, South Carolina, after the initial burst of activity yet there was no turning back.

"One thing we learned is having a lot of patience," said Whitworth.

And perseverance. Even when the sun goes down, people are still downtown, and not one person expressed any concerns about personal safety or crime.

An outdoor movie, 'War of the Worlds,' brought out Greenville native Brandy Caldwell by the Reedy River and hundreds more like her.

"I love this community because it's thriving culturally," said Caldwell, who recently moved to New York City to pursue an acting career.

The story of Greenville's renaissance is not a make-believe tale but a real-life movie of a town that's apparently stuck gold with a new downtown district, 30 years in the making.

Back in Montgomery city and economic development leaders say it will probably take a generation to fully revamped the downtown district. The main reason is downtown Montgomery is much more widespread than Greenville's downtown district.

In part 2 of WSFA 12 News reporter Bryan Henry's series, we'll look at not only what Montgomery has accomplished so far but why the renovation never got off the ground years ago.

[Scoots71]

MONTGOMERY, AL (WSFA) - Downtown Montgomery under construction.

Bob Donlon, the owner of Wintzell's Oyster House, believes he is on the ground floor of something special.

"We like downtown markets," said Donlon.

Does he ever. Donlon has what he considers the very best corner in downtown Montgomery, carving out space within the Renaissance Hotel and Spa.

"To me there's more potential here than downtown Mobile," Donlon said.

Dreamland Bar-B-Que owner Bob Parker followed the same recipe. So far, so good for Dreamland.

"Going well," said Parker.

It's the same kind of thinking people like Jeff Downes have taken. Downes worked for former Mayor Bobby Bright and now Mayor Todd Strange.

"You have to sometimes put public dollars in to create opportunities for the city to grow," said Deputy Mayor Downes.

Which is the very thing Emory Folmar wouldn't do. Folmar served as mayor for more than 20 years. For Folmar it came down to economics.

"You can't do that. You can't be all things to all people all the time," said Folmar.

Folmar, in fact, believes in some ways the beginning of rebuilding downtown started under his watch; he says he renovated the old train shed.

"40 years worth of junk in that place," said Folmar, now Commissioner of the ABC Board for Alabama.

He says he also brought in Embassy Suites and refurbished the old Frank Lew Building which by the way doesn't exist anymore. A parking garage is now in its place. Folmar also says he invested a little on the Alabama River.

"We cleaned it up and put in a dock," he said.

Yet there can be no doubt the momentum started under Bobby Bright and unlike Folmar;

"If we added it up all," Downes said.

Bright spent millions doing it using a combination of grants, very little money from the general fund but most of it borrowed money; $26 million paid for Riverwalk Stadium and $30 million helped RSA Chief Dr. David Bronner build the Renaissance Hotel.

"Without risk there can be no reward," said Downes.

But have former and current city leaders spent too much of your tax dollars, possibly putting the city on a financial edge? The city's financial officer says he would have figures by Monday on just how much debt Montgomery is carrying as a result of its investment in downtown.

"You don't make foolish financial chances," said Folmar.

Jeff Downes points to the fact the city has more than gotten its return on its investment. Private investors opened the Alleyway, the core of the entertainment district. Scores of loft apartments have been built with more on the way. Downes insists the city is in no way in financial trouble because of downtown.

"If you look at the downtown area, RSA.. Dr. Bronner and all the federal grants and private sector more than a billion dollars have been poured into downtown Montgomery in the last 15 or 20 years," said Downes.

And there's even more. Records show the Montgomery Biscuits are well ahead of schedule in paying the city back for the stadium. As of this week the team has turned over nearly $4 million dollars in rent since the Biscuits started playing ball 5 years ago.

"Well, I don't bat a .1000 all the time. If I can bat .333 that's a pretty good league of hits," said Folmar.

A pretty good batting average with a surprising admission from Emory Folmar.

"Maybe I wasn't as aggressive as I should or would have been but you can't do all things at once," Folmar said.

"There's no turning back," said Downes.

"It was a no-brainer for me," said Donlon.

No turning back which sits Bob Donlon just fine. The first Wintzell's restaurant opened in downtown Mobile in 1938. Donlon hopes this Wintzell's will be here 70 years as well in a thriving downtown Montgomery.

The downtown work continues. Early next year city leaders say a $5 million Alabama Department of Transportation grant will dramatically improve the lower Dexter Avenue area with new trees and a lighting package. There might be enough money left over to laid the groundwork for a light rail trolley up and down Dexter. The project should take the work up most of Dexter Avenue.

Also, a pedestrian bridge will go up in about 7 days that will connect the Intermodel Facility to the riverfront.

Click on the Downtown Master Plan to learn more about Montgomery's long range plans to change the face of downtown. The plan includes photos.

Tune in to WSFA 12 News at six Monday night for the final part of Bryan Henry's series. We'll take you back to Greenville, South Carolina, which offered advice to Montgomery officials and introduce you to the man who started it all.

[Scoots71]

MONTGOMERY, AL (WSFA) - It's been said before that it 'takes a village' but in Greenville, South Carolina, it really did start with one man.

"No place for Jews," said Max Heller.

Max Heller left his native Austria more than 70 years ago to escape Hitler's hate and found the love in Greenville, South Carolina.

"They took me in," Heller remembers with a smile.

It is here in Greenville where Heller became mayor and discovered another war he had to overcome. This one certainly not as menacing as the Germans but quite a challenge nevertheless.

"We had grass growing out of concrete," he said.

Overcoming what many remember a rather ugly, stale-looking downtown. It had that '70s look and feel. Max Heller knew it could be better.

"I grew up in Vienna, Austria, and the cities in Europe are very important to us," Heller said.

The rest is history.

Main Street in Greenville is now an avenue of mature trees, fancy lighting and more specialty shops and restaurants you can count. More than good enough for Tonya Toran who recently moved to Greenville from Baltimore, Maryland.

"This gets my family out of the house," said Toran.

This is the kind of look downtown Montgomery is aiming for; quaint and pedestrian friendly but the people in Greenville will quickly tell you this didn't happen overnight.

"We took risks, calculated risks," said the city's Economic Development Director Nancy Whitworth.

The year was 1979. Max Heller first succeeded in landing the Hyatt Hotel and then came perhaps a more difficult challenge; selling the idea of a long range, complete overhaul to merchants like Deb Ayers.

"I just couldn't quite understand what he wanted to do. It was hard to grasp at first," said Ayers.

She does now.

30 years later, you'll find musicians sharing their tunes and developers like Russ Davis turning dirt.

"You gotta take the long view," said Davis.

Davis has just completed a $60 million deal worth of retail and apartments 3 blocks off Main Street, a decision solely based on what Greenville had done to its downtown. In economic terms, this is the so-called 'spill-over' affect.

"It'll take us a long time to make our money back but we're already getting a good return on the money," said Davis.

Some developments simply didn't work like a nearby hotel. It's not even half-built yet local officials say the construction stopped because of the national economic recession.

While Montgomery has a long way to go to catch up with Greenville's progress, there are clear signs the capital city has its own developers taking chances; loft apartments and the alleyway. WSFA 12 News has also learned that a private developer in Florida is investigating the possibility of building an aquarium off Bell Street near the Alabama River.

The road to total revitalization wasn't totally smooth for Greenville. Negotiations with property owners often took time and Montgomery is no exception.

Montgomery attorney Charles Edmondson represents the man who owns 12 commercial buildings on lower Dexter Avenue. The city says the appraised value is $2 million. Edmondson's client wants around $3 million.

"He would like nothing better than to see his section of lower Dexter developed," said Edmondson.

Today, downtown Greenville, South Carolina, just keeps blooming. The most recent development is the removal of an old concrete bridge that covered up a striking waterfall, spilling out of the Reedy River in town.

"People who've lived here all their lives never saw that part of the river because it was full of kudzu," said current Greenville Mayor Knox White.

And just 5 years ago, the city dedicated the Liberty Bridge. It's a pedestrian bridge rising 60 feet above the falls near the end of Main Street in Greenville.

All of this, however, does raise a question. How do you sustain the growth and the momentum without sacrificing Greenville's charm?

"Very carefully," Whitworth said.

Whitworth also added that they 'remember the fundamentals and execute.'

In the end it all goes back to Max Heller.

"It's wonderful," he said of how downtown has progressed.

A statue of Heller on Main Street is a testatment of what the locals think of him, a man who dared to change the face of downtown Greenville and ended up making quite a splash.

Back in Montgomery the city is carrying more than $80 million dollars in debt for its investments in downtown so far. The annual payment on that loan is $5 million a year. City leaders insist they have no problem making those yearly payments, and it's been 'well worth the investment.'

[tsully76]

I have seen all three episodes on WSFA and i enjoyed it however Montgomery is a bigger city than Greenville. So my suggestion for the city is to use a mixture of Greenville, SC and Nashville, Tn. If anybody here has been to Downtown Nashville lately can tell ya its a happening place. We should demand that total sowntown revilitalization does not take another 30 years. That is entirely too long.

[quattordici]

More people actually live around Greenville than live around Montgomery. Greenville has a small city proper population, but that city supports tens of thousands more.