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Johnny Aussie
Oct 8, 2016, 11:59 AM
Just looked at UK pax stats and unsurprisingly, LGW has surged and LHR also a healthy increase. In July YVR-London almost hit 100,000 pax!!

July stats (GLA and MAN not available yet):

http://www.caa.co.uk/uploadedFiles/CAA/Content/Standard_Content/Data_and_analysis/Datasets/Airport_stats/Airport_data_2016_07/Table_12_1_Intl_Air_Pax_Traffic_Route_Analysis.pdf

June stats - all four routes showing increases... Especially LGW and LHR:

http://www.caa.co.uk/uploadedFiles/CAA/Content/Standard_Content/Data_and_analysis/Datasets/Airport_stats/Airport_data_2016_06/Table_12_1_Intl_Air_Pax_Traffic_Route_Analysis.pdf

trofirhen
Oct 8, 2016, 3:29 PM
I have explained this numerous times... Here it is again... Transport Canada allocates capacity based on O&D. YVR-IST, YVR-DXB, YVR-AUH have very small O&D. Therefore no flights. It's irrelevant to Transport Canada how many pax would be transiting.
SEA-DXB no restrictions based on O&D, hence flights full of transiting pax.
What it boils down to are wide differences in American and Canadian aviation law, if that's the correct terminology. Much different, but simple to understand. Thank you

mezzanine
Oct 8, 2016, 8:24 PM
Yes, I saw that comment.

People forget, and yes we have brought this up many times before.

Transport Canada (Government of Canada) tends to grant access based on O&D and not based on transfer traffic to a particular country.

If you all recall, and I'm too lazy to dig it up again, somebody posted the market size of YVR-IST in comparison to other North American markets. The local O&D was tiny. However, the potential for transit passengers was much larger of course. Same argument against EK and EY. The local market from YVR-DXB or YVR-AUH is minute. But, like IST, the amount of potential transit traffic is so much larger. That's the crux of the Government's approach. Like it or lump it... that's their model.

So to summarise, Transport Canada would be unlikely to grant further access to Turkish despite the lobbying of various groups (eg Turkish Airlines and local Turkish community groups). Unless someone can prove the YVR-IST market is large enough to support a direct service based on the local market only..... Even though they are a Star Alliance member, Air Canada may also lobby against further access as it may (will) hurt their business model. It has nothing to do with favouring YYZ or YUL, this has more to do with Air Canada... their global hub just happens to be at YYZ.

I would agree that Turkish may reduce the ability for YVR to have more non-stops, foreign or with AC. YVR-IST would draw traffic away from the AC/LH JV, and compete with YVR-DEL. LOT may have reduced interest in YVR. YVR-IKA would have better metrics if a foreign airline applied, as the O+D is significant and the present lack of a competitive continuing network at IKA would not put pressure on AC.

trofirhen
Oct 8, 2016, 10:50 PM
I would agree that Turkish may reduce the ability for YVR to have more non-stops, foreign or with AC. YVR-IST would draw traffic away from the AC/LH JV, and compete with YVR-DEL. LOT may have reduced interest in YVR. YVR-IKA would have better metrics if a foreign airline applied, as the O+D is significant and the present lack of a competitive continuing network at IKA would not put pressure on AC.
Sounds as if we're going to remain (year-round) with the 4 that we have (LHR, AMS, CDG and FRA) ... and that's it. Not bad. Could be worse for sure.
Sounds as if Vancouver had better rule out getting any more. Other than summer holiday flights, I doubt it'll happen, so why mull over the Tooth Fairy?

Johnny Aussie
Oct 9, 2016, 12:03 AM
I would agree that Turkish may reduce the ability for YVR to have more non-stops, foreign or with AC. YVR-IST would draw traffic away from the AC/LH JV, and compete with YVR-DEL. LOT may have reduced interest in YVR. YVR-IKA would have better metrics if a foreign airline applied, as the O+D is significant and the present lack of a competitive continuing network at IKA would not put pressure on AC.

Any idea what the O&D actually is from YVR-IKA? The Iranian population in Vancouver area is fairly large but do we have numbers about the O&D?

Sounds as if we're going to remain (year-round) with the 4 that we have (LHR, AMS, CDG and FRA) ... and that's it. Not bad. Could be worse for sure.
Sounds as if Vancouver had better rule out getting any more. Other than summer holiday flights, I doubt it'll happen, so why mull over the Tooth Fairy?

And LGW year-round on TS! Don't forget LGW.

Yup YVR-Europe still very seasonal nothing has changed! Until AMS and CDG become daily unlikely other routes will go year-round. The four largest markets are covered year round. We have a saying downunder... She'll be right mate!

mezzanine
Oct 9, 2016, 7:24 AM
Any idea what the O&D actually is from YVR-IKA? The Iranian population in Vancouver area is fairly large but do we have numbers about the O&D?




Short answer: no exact numbers.:shrug:

Long answer: the actual numbers are a proxy for the ability for foreign airlines to poach from canadian airlines and/or draw traffic away from canadian airports - which IMO is very, very low for iranian carriers. Iran's sanctions-affected airlines and airports likely will not pose a threat to poach traffic from say, AC, for some time. Maybe in the future, but not now.

and if AC looks at a route, i suspect O+D is less important and competes with the 6th freedom potential from the USA and other transfers from canada. the fact that 90% of AC's YYZ-CPH traffic is connecting illustrates this. TC has to negotiate a bilateral that makes iran satisfied, but due to the sanctions there is more asymmetry going in that puts more at play.



.

Johnny Aussie
Oct 9, 2016, 9:05 PM
Short answer: no exact numbers.:shrug:

Long answer: the actual numbers are a proxy for the ability for foreign airlines to poach from canadian airlines and/or draw traffic away from canadian airports - which IMO is very, very low for iranian carriers. Iran's sanctions-affected airlines and airports likely will not pose a threat to poach traffic from say, AC, for some time. Maybe in the future, but not now.

and if AC looks at a route, i suspect O+D is less important and competes with the 6th freedom potential from the USA and other transfers from canada. the fact that 90% of AC's YYZ-CPH traffic is connecting illustrates this. TC has to negotiate a bilateral that makes iran satisfied, but due to the sanctions there is more asymmetry going in that puts more at play.
.

But that is the difference between O&D and the ability to fill a plane with connecting traffic.
You mentioned YVR-IKA O&D is significant. However, maybe you meant YVR-IKA would be a popular route due to the ability to capture connecting traffic.
Two different things.
I was hoping somebody had the actual O&D numbers as I am curious how big the market really is.

Back to Turkish... I am pretty sure the chart somebody posted about YVR-IST was something like 16ppdew (passengers per day each way). Probably not enough to have Transport Canada grant further access to TK.

Johnny Aussie
Oct 9, 2016, 9:11 PM
Saw on Twitter a tweet from airlineroute.net

It looks like Sichuan will in fact start YVR - CGO - CTU afterall twice weekly starting Nov 11. This will replace two of the three weekly YVR - SHE - CTU.

Edit... Flight details

http://www.routesonline.com/news/38/airlineroute/269260/sichuan-airlines-adds-zhengzhou-vancouver-sector-from-nov-2016/

trofirhen
Oct 10, 2016, 1:07 AM
But that is the difference between O&D and the ability to fill a plane with connecting traffic.
You mentioned YVR-IKA O&D is significant. However, maybe you meant YVR-IKA would be a popular route due to the ability to capture connecting traffic.
Two different things.
I was hoping somebody had the actual O&D numbers as I am curious how big the market really is.

Back to Turkish... I am pretty sure the chart somebody posted about YVR-IST was something like 16ppdew (passengers per day each way). Probably not enough to have Transport Canada grant further access to TK.
I wonder what the rationale is behind Transport Canada's rule of only allowing flights with sufficient O&D ?? Allowing flights with great transfer potential seems logical.
The USA does it. Why doesn't Canada?

Denscity
Oct 10, 2016, 1:50 AM
Wow Vancouver is the undisputed king of flights to China!

YVR Bruce
Oct 10, 2016, 3:37 AM
Hawaiian: I can't recall a discussion about the Islands route(s) and whether HA has a potential place at YVR. Their A330s can't compete with WS?

Cage
Oct 10, 2016, 4:14 AM
I wonder what the rationale is behind Transport Canada's rule of only allowing flights with sufficient O&D ?? Allowing flights with great transfer potential seems logical.

The USA does it. Why doesn't Canada?

It's not logical for the Canadian economy to allow foreign airlines to poach traffic between Canada and third country. Take the ME3 example, they are not interested in serving just Canada-Dubai, they need transfer to traffic to/from India, Pakistan, and Africa to make their flights work.

The USA and Europe got hoodwinked by the ME3 into agreeing to open skies. In defence of the USA negotiators, at the time of signing the open skies agreement there was no equivalency of lopsided bilateral route rights.

casper
Oct 10, 2016, 6:31 AM
I wonder what the rationale is behind Transport Canada's rule of only allowing flights with sufficient O&D ?? Allowing flights with great transfer potential seems logical.
The USA does it. Why doesn't Canada?

Australia also does it. The end result is their national airlines has had to drop many of the formerly profitable routes between Australia and Europe. Many of the European airlines have abandoned routes to Australia.

If the ME3 were given open access into Vancouver we likely would lose some of the other foreign routes we currently have.

trofirhen
Oct 10, 2016, 7:04 AM
Australia also does it. The end result is their national airlines has had to drop many of the formerly profitable routes between Australia and Europe. Many of the European airlines have abandoned routes to Australia.

If the ME3 were given open access into Vancouver we likely would lose some of the other foreign routes we currently have.
Thank you for the explanation, but I still have a question:
If Turkish were allowed YVR-IST, would that bleed off traffic from other routes, and shut down flights, say, to LGW, CDG, AMS, FRA? I'm not talking ME3. I'm talking Turkish.

Johnny Aussie
Oct 10, 2016, 7:40 AM
Wow Vancouver is the undisputed king of flights to China!

And more to come soon!

:runaway:

nname
Oct 10, 2016, 8:27 AM
And more to come soon!

:runaway:

NKG? or something from AC?

China's CAAC released a list of approved route from July-Sept over the last weekend, which showed all 3 YVR routes had received the approval. The KMG-NKG-YVR route is one of the most recently approved route, probably have something to do with NKG being penalized for low on time reliability...

Interestingly I did not see AC's name on the list of foreign airlines.. not even the YUL-PVG route... different approval process?

casper
Oct 10, 2016, 12:01 PM
Thank you for the explanation, but I still have a question:
If Turkish were allowed YVR-IST, would that bleed off traffic from other routes, and shut down flights, say, to LGW, CDG, AMS, FRA? I'm not talking ME3. I'm talking Turkish.

Turkish is not going to start by fling a A380 into Vancouver. (I don't even think they own any). It would be something much smaller and it would only be a few days per week. When/If they come it will take traffic away from existing routes. However if the amount of capacity they introduce is limited it will have a limited effect. After all the total market size is growing. That also helps in limiting the impact on other airlines.

Given they are in Star Alliance and Air Canada codeshares on most of their flights into Canada I would expect them to impact Star Alliance partners more than other airlines for business related travel.

For leisure travel (and much of the visit family in India traffic falls into this camp) I am not certain alliances are all that important anymore. You earn fewer points, they are harder to spend and you don't have elite benefits. It may have a bigger impact on other airlines.

trofirhen
Oct 10, 2016, 3:10 PM
Turkish is not going to start by fling a A380 into Vancouver. (I don't even think they own any). It would be something much smaller and it would only be a few days per week. When/If they come it will take traffic away from existing routes. However if the amount of capacity they introduce is limited it will have a limited effect. After all the total market size is growing. That also helps in limiting the impact on other airlines.

Given they are in Star Alliance and Air Canada codeshares on most of their flights into Canada I would expect them to impact Star Alliance partners more than other airlines for business related travel.

For leisure travel (and much of the visit family in India traffic falls into this camp) I am not certain alliances are all that important anymore. You earn fewer points, they are harder to spend and you don't have elite benefits. It may have a bigger impact on other airlines.
Again, thank you for the explanation.
However, I never ever mentioned an A380 !!
I was thinking maybe an A330 four times a week, or such.
*And I cannot help wondering if the 2x daily EK flights out of Seattle bleed a lot of traffic from DELTA. If what you say is true, then surely EK must be bleeding other traffic from Seattle.
If most of the EK traffic froim Seattle is connecting traffic (and I think it is) then I can only assume that a hypothetical YVR-IST on Turkish would also be mostly for connecting.
That being the case, would they be bleeding connections from Frankfurt (*A). I guess they would, or Transport Canada wouldn't be so uptight about them flying here.
Nevertheless, it still has that good ol' Canadian protectionism flavour to it.

Johnny Aussie
Oct 11, 2016, 3:12 AM
Apparently the following routes have been approved by the CAAC for this quarter:

1) YVR - CGO - CTU on 3U (as already mentioned a few posts ago)
2) YVR - NKG - KMG on MU (as speculated a couple of months ago)
3) CAN - YVR - MEX on CZ (as speculated a couple of months ago)

The link was in Chinese which I can't read but I was given the English translation.

Will await to see the schedule info for 2 & 3.

Still more to come :runaway:

casper
Oct 11, 2016, 6:03 AM
Again, thank you for the explanation.
However, I never ever mentioned an A380 !!
I was thinking maybe an A330 four times a week, or such.
*And I cannot help wondering if the 2x daily EK flights out of Seattle bleed a lot of traffic from DELTA. If what you say is true, then surely EK must be bleeding other traffic from Seattle.
If most of the EK traffic froim Seattle is connecting traffic (and I think it is) then I can only assume that a hypothetical YVR-IST on Turkish would also be mostly for connecting.
That being the case, would they be bleeding connections from Frankfurt (*A). I guess they would, or Transport Canada wouldn't be so uptight about them flying here.
Nevertheless, it still has that good ol' Canadian protectionism flavour to it.

To IST an A330 may work. I would not be over concerned with Turkish. They tend to grow slowly and are less disruptive. They also have a local partner in the form of Air Canada.

EK is a different story, to get to Dubai it is a 777 or A380. I have been told (but have no way of confirming it) that there is a lot cargo between Seattle and Dubai. Much of that cargo being Boeing parts for maintenance of a large fleet of aircraft based in Dubai. Seattle is a weird airport. It is a major hut for Alaska that has no overseas traffic, so it likely happy to feed EK connection. I believe Delta is dropping its interline agreement with EK.

In the case of Vancouver, who is going to provide the local feed to EK? Air Canada not going to want to play nice. WestJet perhaps? However they also have a longer term interest in partnering with Air France, KLM, and Delta.

Denscity
Oct 11, 2016, 6:24 AM
Apparently the following routes have been approved by the CAAC for this quarter:

1) YVR - CGO - CTU on 3U (as already mentioned a few posts ago)
2) YVR - NKG - KMG on MU (as speculated a couple of months ago)
3) CAN - YVR - MEX on CZ (as speculated a couple of months ago)

The link was in Chinese which I can't read but I was given the English translation.

Will await to see the schedule info for 2 & 3.

Still more to come :runaway:

Incredible :slob:

Johnny Aussie
Oct 11, 2016, 8:26 AM
Incredible :slob:

It is incredible.... but with the cap in place not much more can come with mainland Chinese carriers to Canada. Still awaiting to hear what Hainan is going to do.

The CZ flights CAN-YVR-MEX are additional flights bringing CZ to its maximum allotment.

MU's and 3U's flights are a reallocation of their already maxed out allotments.

BUT... there is still more to come!

nname
Oct 11, 2016, 8:38 AM
Well, they can still up-gauge and fly bigger plane here with the same frequency.

Maybe CZ will reallocate their A380 to YVR one day instead of serving the AMS route :cool:

Johnny Aussie
Oct 11, 2016, 9:03 AM
Well, they can still up-gauge and fly bigger plane here with the same frequency.

Maybe CZ will reallocate their A380 to YVR one day instead of serving the AMS route :cool:

Possible 748i on YVR-PEK on CA next summer.

trofirhen
Oct 11, 2016, 3:20 PM
#1:) To IST an A330 may work. I would not be over concerned with Turkish. They tend to grow slowly and are less disruptive. They also have a local partner in the form of Air Canada.......

2:) .......In the case of Vancouver, who is going to provide the local feed to EK? Air Canada not going to want to play nice. WestJet perhaps? However they also have a longer term interest in partnering with Air France, KLM, and Delta.
Thank you again for the reply.
#1: Does this indicate a possible YVR-IST flight, either TK or AC? It would be good to have. (And no I'm not interested in the M3 either.)
#2: Does this mean that Westjet may formally become a Skyteam member? If yes, what time frame would you imagine until? Also, what if any overall impact on air travel in Canada?

nname
Oct 11, 2016, 6:17 PM
KLM will use 787-9 instead of 777-200ER for its daily YVR-AMS flight next summer

http://www.routesonline.com/news/38/airlineroute/269301/klm-s17-long-haul-changes-as-of-11oct16/

----------------

In other news, to celebrate the launch of CGO-YVR, round-trip ticket for CGO-YVR-CGO will be on sale for $1000RMB (less than $200CAD) for the month of November, and $1400RMB (less than $300CAD) for December.... Makes you wonder how much subsidy they received for the route...

jmt18325
Oct 11, 2016, 6:34 PM
KLM will use 787-9 instead of 777-200ER for its daily YVR-AMS flight next summer

http://www.routesonline.com/news/38/airlineroute/269301/klm-s17-long-haul-changes-as-of-11oct16/


They did some shifting at Calgary as well - probably as a result of increases for Edmonton.

nname
Oct 11, 2016, 7:00 PM
They did some shifting at Calgary as well - probably as a result of increases for Edmonton.

Apparently, that may no longer be the case (https://twitter.com/Airlineroute/status/785889873731330048)

Johnny Aussie
Oct 11, 2016, 7:11 PM
The YVR KLM change to 789 doesn't kick in until 3 Sept according to the airlineroute.net post. So it remains 772 for the majority of the summer.

LeftCoaster
Oct 11, 2016, 8:42 PM
The YVR KLM change to 789 doesn't kick in until 3 Sept according to the airlineroute.net post. So it remains 772 for the majority of the summer.

Interesting, could be a decent upguage then if they plan on using the 789 for their 4x per week winter service in 17/18 vs the A330-200 they are running winter 16/17.

Though it does only say it replaces the 772. Seems weird to change the equipment for less than 2 months.

LeftCoaster
Oct 11, 2016, 9:01 PM
Yes, I saw that comment.

People forget, and yes we have brought this up many times before.

Transport Canada (Government of Canada) tends to grant access based on O&D and not based on transfer traffic to a particular country.

If you all recall, and I'm too lazy to dig it up again, somebody posted the market size of YVR-IST in comparison to other North American markets. The local O&D was tiny. However, the potential for transit passengers was much larger of course.

That was me who posted those numbers. They were a bit old, but any growth over the few years was likely wiped out over the last 6 months with the turmoil in Turkey. Despite that I would be surprised if TK didn't still want into YVR.

One way I could see YVR getting Transport Canada to loosen up the bilateral for YVR would be if AC was concerned about PAX bleeding to Emirates out of SEA. If AC had some strong figures showing some leech going that way they might be inclined to partner with TK on some sort of alternative to fight that competitive force.

Hawaiian: I can't recall a discussion about the Islands route(s) and whether HA has a potential place at YVR. Their A330s can't compete with WS?

They don't seem to be interested in serving the route. YVR has a huge amount of O&D to HNL and other destinations in Hawaii, and that is nothing new, so the airport must not mesh with Hawaiian's greater strategy.

Would love to see them at YVR though, they are pretty looking planes.

A
Will await to see the schedule info for 2 & 3.

Still more to come :runaway:

Always one to keep us on the edge of our seats!

Johnny Aussie
Oct 12, 2016, 12:44 AM
Always one to keep us on the edge of our seats!

Aren't I though... shouldn't have to wait tooo much longer for another pretty major announcement....

And you said you like pretty planes? Should be a fairly colourful addition....

:runaway:

casper
Oct 12, 2016, 2:16 AM
Thank you again for the reply.
#1: Does this indicate a possible YVR-IST flight, either TK or AC? It would be good to have. (And no I'm not interested in the M3 either.)
#2: Does this mean that Westjet may formally become a Skyteam member? If yes, what time frame would you imagine until? Also, what if any overall impact on air travel in Canada?

In the case of #1, I don't know. AC has been expanding service to Europe in weird ways. Not bad, just unexpected ways. Sounds like TK wants to come out to YVR and it would make sense for AC and TK to try and partner with each other.

in the case of #2, I think a number of people have noticed that WestJet appears to be developing stronger and stronger relationships with Skyteam. They get along with Oneworld, bit it Skyteam just stands out. Time will tell what happens. I would love for them to become full members.

excel
Oct 12, 2016, 2:42 AM
Aren't I though... shouldn't have to wait tooo much longer for another pretty major announcement....

And you said you like pretty planes? Should be a fairly colourful addition....

:runaway:

I am rooting for Thai BKK :)

Johnny Aussie
Oct 12, 2016, 2:59 AM
I am rooting for Thai BKK :)

That would be pretty colourful!

CareerShow
Oct 12, 2016, 8:51 AM
KLM is the only European carrier to really not upguage YVR in the last 5 years. I realize Air France is the same company but still, would be nice to see the route a few more frequencies in the winter on something other than a 332. Also is AF 3 or 5 weekly in the winter?

Johnny Aussie
Oct 12, 2016, 8:57 AM
KLM is the only European carrier to really not upguage YVR in the last 5 years. I realize Air France is the same company but still, would be nice to see the route a few more frequencies in the winter on something other than a 332. Also is AF 3 or 5 weekly in the winter?

Yeah KLM has been pretty stagnant at YVR. In fact latest schedule change shows next summer back to a daily 333.

AF is 3 weekly in winter on 772s.

LeftCoaster
Oct 12, 2016, 6:09 PM
Aren't I though... shouldn't have to wait tooo much longer for another pretty major announcement....

And you said you like pretty planes? Should be a fairly colourful addition....

:runaway:

Let the rampant speculation begin!

I'm not sure what Thai's schedule for taking possession of it's new A350s are but so far they only have a couple that I know of now. I guess one of their 788s could just do it and a 789 could definitely do it. Seems a bit early for a Thai route though.

Asiana could be a possibility, but from what I've heard from you and seen elsewhere they are not boosting their North American operations heavily at this point. Could always change though.

Hong Kong Airlines or their parent Hainan are the most likely IMO out of Asia, not nearly colourful enough though!

Colourful just about cancels about any European airline out with all their Eurowhite liveries! I guess Norwegian does have a lot of colour and they have been expanding to North America pretty heavily of late. Could be them, though I'd put that pretty low in the probability department. Same with WOW airlines.

My guess is going to be Volaris or VivaAerobus. Both are colourful, and meet your carefully worded description of 'pretty major'.

CareerShow
Oct 12, 2016, 7:27 PM
Yeah KLM has been pretty stagnant at YVR. In fact latest schedule change shows next summer back to a daily 333.

AF is 3 weekly in winter on 772s.

Five weekly in the summer though correct? I guess that classifies as an upgrade from AF KLM, as im sure much of the traffic originally transiting through Amsterdam has shifted to travel through CDG. I just wonder if KLM has been hurting on the route in recent years.

Johnny Aussie
Oct 12, 2016, 7:41 PM
Five weekly in the summer though correct? I guess that classifies as an upgrade from AF KLM, as im sure much of the traffic originally transiting through Amsterdam has shifted to travel through CDG. I just wonder if KLM has been hurting on the route in recent years.

Yes, AF is 5 weekly in summer, 3 in winter. KL daily in summer, 4 weekly winter (was 5 weekly until this winter)

When AF commenced flights that was a major boost in capacity for AF/KLM. But definitely one would expect what you mentioned and some traffic would have shifted from transiting AMS to CDG. They are adjusting capacity accordingly.

trofirhen
Oct 12, 2016, 8:17 PM
Let the rampant speculation begin!

I'm not sure what Thai's schedule for taking possession of it's new A350s are but so far they only have a couple that I know of now. I guess one of their 788s could just do it and a 789 could definitely do it. Seems a bit early for a Thai route though.

Asiana could be a possibility, but from what I've heard from you and seen elsewhere they are not boosting their North American operations heavily at this point. Could always change though.

Hong Kong Airlines or their parent Hainan are the most likely IMO out of Asia, not nearly colourful enough though!

Colourful just about cancels about any European airline out with all their Eurowhite liveries! I guess Norwegian does have a lot of colour and they have been expanding to North America pretty heavily of late. Could be them, though I'd put that pretty low in the probability department. Same with WOW airlines.

My guess is going to be Volaris or VivaAerobus. Both are colourful, and meet your carefully worded description of 'pretty major'.

Let's try and guess, using pictures. I typed in colorful Asian airliners
on google, to 'images' and got a batch.

http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/data:image/jpeg;base64,/9j/4AAQSkZJRgABAQAAAQABAAD/2wCEAAkGBxMTEhUTExMWFhUXFxcYFhcXGRgYGBcYGhoYFxcYGBoeHSggGxolHRUYITEhJSkrLi4uFx8zODMsNygtLisBCgoKDg0OGhAQGy0mHyUtLS0tLS8tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS03Lv/AABEIAK0BJAMBIgACEQEDEQH/xAAcAAACAgMBAQAAAAAAAAAAAAAEBQMGAQIHAAj/xABEEAABAwIDBQUFBAcHBQEBAAABAgMRACEEEjEFBkFRcRMiYYGRMkKhscEUUnLRByMzYoLS8BVDkqKywuEWRFPi8XM0/8QAGgEAAwEBAQEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAECAwQFBv/EADERAAICAQIDBgYBBAMAAAAAAAABAhEDEjEEIUETMlFhkdEFInGBofDhBhQzsUJDwf/aAAwDAQACEQMRAD8A33HROIcM3CCOpJSfzq3pxeUwqKo+6ZX+uUjUZeUxfQeVO8DjFAypQJNuflXrcPC8dnHll84/eaT3VkiPxHStnFIkERfQzb1qvq2gkKgDNe6Tw8vqKOxT5VDYsk3SqbA8q10MzsIxagEkE3k5Tp6Go/tWZI7p7vGPlzoYLS2lTbqs5mQOX4SaxtXEkhEEhJA15+IooLCnMUSM0Qkf1bxrR6RCs+vvch6UHin5YATpMEC/mCTp4VCziigpbN81wSbDlT0hYxQ2U94EGfvCQfpUjmMAHeUZiYCSB8qVOY8wpBTASecmeQ+daMYta0kEhIHOQSPlS0hY2wTyUrChm8TlJFHbQxIF73HIileyxmZWtCUyD71+pFBocWtJQXDEzlSmR8TU6bY7GzK1L90kc9ajxuKDYtM8bEVLs1WQKSVKAA1Vy6DhSp5aXFkJuOcGDSS5js0TglOqCiARrEj60xxi0tJi+ngRPrWy0dk2FWjXMbH0rRptbpClDucCMw/+UWArwqS57ub6DrzohLQR7SoVwTrbhwvTLaT6GE5s4JNgAJPoaAawS1lLpsNbwD1p3YgkgqBB4HlBPrS/GY1QUENoPpRG0MfAypmVeevHjXsIC3MmSdNRYc70IDdrZkIK3SJ1iZobEPaJGnX61utwrJMZhe8wAfC9QY1wJAyxfUyCfIU0Bo86EDUdNaGS6YJJiayGeNyelRvLkwJkcTVpEm+cke0frWmHaNio2BmpEMyB/R8RFHt4dKtQZ05dKG6GezZhpaoAtRJAtVh2c3lBkRQ+MfbzTkE86zUuZVCBbaibTblatjhXFRcUxQMySoj0oZKjYpJVwgR61diJkYPu3NbpQIgitsWFBIMgc+FCvP2SqaNwJXFJRrpUAWFEi8eP0qHGupUsADqbUQ2OAufWmIicKU/KsJSQNNaKbw0D2SfSanxDGVMq9JosYuUwedeo5LEiRpXqnUFCDckfqnVDXMI9DR6WZnS+okfChNw//wCdwxIz39BVgaYB0pcPKsaDKrmxWhUCQBmHHjW7bizcnQyP+PGmKtn38aFVs1aiRxOg1vW2pMzpi/Grzq7RM5hEnX1HOjcc6HEpc45bjkRxHMUR/wBPOpQVEwSLgAT5yYonDbEyoKNJuM17/unh0qXOIUxawhS2FK0yGZ4EVq+2ntUm0kCLW8LzFMhstakKQM2XjYASPpUS9mpyIkgqFkm5HSOFLUh0wFRW6tagkJUnULsLdbetaM4YvIJEqI5C3lHCm+0sKVqbBzQBeAAPXWttoJkBpJDaTEqSBM8ppagoUYVxak5QghKNbRPga9hHilQWO6ka6E+N7Uc9h05FtqMH3CO8ojmbTQGJwYAS00klStVKTHzvTtMDG0sX+sESoLAmRr4iKKwbSm3IBIQoe7lBnxveo1sdmlLaVlThMBOQQLcTpFR4TDKS7l9tQupQV3U9ZETSdUHUztHaQbIQJcJMxmBiT4HWmeAwi811qCTeJT5zBoTZuEIeLhUEtgmSLAjr1pmxh+1z99YTcpdV3YHhOvU1EmkUgDEstuLUEEZkn2ZJEeIED40xSwpTUISsQNSAPICak2CnLnWlvKgAy4tR7/70aUWy4pYBeM5zCQkEW562rOUi0hIxhihB1J8dfnUOFw2cXiOR1B8SKd4bDtpU4VJCss5Yv5HxrCWQ4gKchE8Lj+jRrDSI8bDYypTM2t+dQM4OBJ14TJ+tPMZgwhICGs02mefEmo8a2tKEhPZ3MdBVKYmhOpB4n0rTsbSTppemz2HSBJMnkEzPwoBxhRFkmD4RVqRLRAxxNSKegisrchMEQaEUTBgAnxqqsQ5bxpOpmo1uib0rw+cfeP8AXWjOwWDJOvIVOlIdkyTlkSIOmtRKdKOCQON715xglQMmOPj1qV3Dp4AUxi/FLUskBKsvAx8anGGlHfm3M/lRrOHHH517EM5rQPnRqCgdSQQMoTpRWHhCDm4VspFon0tWAyFWPzpWBrg86zm0TwE/SpywnNKlz4cPSvPuJaRmABIIASZgk8/ACT0SaUNbTUJzJSZJ4AH4W+FZSyJOi1FtDg4yLIQI8bV6tmEIKQYVcA8LTXqrkIO/RdsptOzglaEKzuOFUgKCoUUiZ19mrYvZTJ9wDpaqHulvGEYSEtKUhkuBxWZsGcylqISVaDNxgmLA0/wW+WHWEx2sqaS9lDTiyltRISpXZhQExPSvKuafI63T3GzmxEEWJHWDWrOx8lxBPM2rze3GMqXO3byOAFCitICh+6Sb0acagZZWkZzCZUO8YmE3uYBMDlVdtPYWiItXg1kkqRYaQQaCxilTGVQi90mKs2aszVLO0S8SKa7ist81uMaUGcYlMBtsEEyTa3qavDuDbV7SEnqBQbuwmCZykTyUfkbVtHiYdUZvC+hT8Q7nXJICBaxIJHM+INauMJjuwZ0Jnyqx4jdVJ9lwjwIB/Kh1buuiIKSBykH41ss8PEh4peAhU0s5VEAKGpjUetedZQcyiiVDQn6TTRWy3rZ2zadDmnrFRhom6gUkcxcjzq1kT2ZOloV/ZCoZ0pQn+EQfE2rZ1C4ACkgGyoAHwv8AKj1oIIN4PCtyoC/E0ahUCOYVBSMxWpA0SExJ8TAogIzqSpQKUJEBGYX6ib15TYIOa86C+vCiA4ExMZo0AF+tQ2NGRmdVJSClPspPsCNCRxNboCpKyEkgQkkkJHQDhUJdWEqKiEjgJv8ACvKMIBMSYgSTHjE1BZ5p7I2R7xPAWk6mOVRrUJGa5FwAfnyqdSicqYN9TRyMAjUxJpOSW4JWKDiZMq4aJmf/ALUQKjJI6Eiw6CnowjYsBHShzgPGmsiBxYnVhlL4H4/nUbuDXFwQPSrEwhKBa9ZcezaCaO1YaCpqw02IEVunB+Ap0vArUbD8qwrZqwQOfKte1ROhirs44VhQmm7+zCnjQa2I601NMHED7OsKTRhZrPYiD+VPUKhfWU24UaWRAisKap6goFM1jqaL7AR48q8poBJVAhIk3ufAeJNh4mk5JBQm2isSEjgJPVV/lEfiVS50VttBrtJBJBJklNrzJ8ibxWj2keFcjduzeqQ8ZWcqb+6OPhXq2SkQLcB8q9Xcqo5wHBs4dbbfastLPZpBKkJUr2RIkiaNwW1MEFrSlaUOOJS2qFEGEApQlPAQCYAquYfE2gEWtr4T8qqWJ2c72h7ijKpBAtrMzXmJWdbOmK2c4y62vCBuEMJYhaiO4kkgGW1yZJMpy63CrVHhN2HUobKMSlt1BxDuZtAyl96AFcO4lAyWANyRltGuHxZAAP3RXP0bVxCMRm7Rc57gk89CnTSmkyTqyTjEEiXFI7NCWksvJUWlgEOFa8QMzoJghSibWycThO2NotupU4lJT2WHacUkKW2lxRcU68lpMLWAezQbpiZ0BiF7aZS2pQuUpJHkJqs7tb7PuPJbdykKmCBBB18xS0+Q7Oo7W3jRh2wpQUtau6202JW6uJyoT0BJOgAJNAbP30BZWp5AQ8h1ppTf6wAl5SUtKTnQF5Tni6RdCuF6S7Z3jGGa7QpKrhMAxc8/jWmxduYfGAu9kM6VInOlJUCg52yFcQFXHIzUaFQ9RetmbaZxCSppRUlKlIJKFpBUklKspUBmAIIlMi1HB4VQkbwYXDlOHzhuNEwYGYk3Ogkkm5407TtCONS4laiyBYqq/pA26llrsgR2rkED7qQbqPKYgefKlO8W/rWGBS2Q49wSDKUzoVkf6RfprXOBiH8U6pZJWtRlSzYDqdAANAOAsK7eE4a2pz2RwcZnk49liVyfLl0/ksbO33NMxPLU/Orfs7DqU2C8YWbwI7o4A+NVbYuDQz3ic7n3uCfwj669KanbAHGTyFdOfIsj040dXw/4Y+Gg8vGT+ib2/nyQ7+w/dX6i9QlkpJ4nnrSZW2CbTA5Vu3tKnDBKvmOPiuMw6qwrl4v2GYajTXnWyWuZoBG0hzonD4krMJBV04dTwqcmLQnJul5mUOKt1Qc24B1rLuNvbhUrGCHvnyT9T+Vbq2cg6FQ9D+VfOZP6g+HQyODyX5pNr1PUjgyuN1RE3jBwrzmKNbHZp4KB62/Oo14NY4T0INdeL4jwWXuZIv7+5Lx5FujEk0dhYTQKcyfdjrXi4a7O8uROw6RiBXlYhNJgFGshCvH41OgeoMxboPGl1Sdgo8DXuwVWkVQrsgcAJ0rIYBqZGHUeVZ7E8x1qrECqbANqyWuNSlmePnWUt8NapMkH7KaW7YcypCRqbnpcJ63BP8Ap4GONoHE/OqvtB7OsnzjkIAA6gAA+M1E5cqKiuoABN6X7TxISptue84sQOOVJlR6WjzrXenaZwzGZMZ1KCUk3AJklUeAB84qsbt4d1zEB53MbEhS5lXdMZf3RPC2lQl1YzriUWHQV6ijhzbpXq6lIxo5ixhkmbnvAA+RJHTUi1E/YrghxQISlMxewWOBGue/4RpUGGVRTRUD7UjpeuBM6mbdksLkL7pItJGUAkkJ6g+GnSNPs7gVnKQohI0CSrMM8kSLj2PQx4zFVxWEOLzxFuP8AXOqsVE6cW9OVSBBJBMEiP1sRBnQNDT3j5BtYNpl7OllUhXdMqgAyCdDcFJtyKTxpkFGsYfGJUSAqSNRRYqBtqPoxDORWYEqTAEKUDkC9JvEkQOIrbdLCBlK8q82YpMxCdJEXM2VUuM2sy1ZxYngkd5R/hF6R4rbzqp7FCWQdVqALh8hYec1cYtjjFy7qs9vxgD2nbZ0gKAEEwqRaw1V5VjG7yYjEIDTSChrKEqUdV2jXQDwF/GluRGbOslxZ1Us5j8bVMcUeFq6YYfL1Im8cP8k/tHm/XYi2VhQSe1SYERNh49eFT4zaS0OoCDCLDKBA8QB51F2pOprZuSYAJPISa0eD5ecvYwXH1yxxrz6sMx21VhJIPlwrbCbRKkgnU8K81spxdiAByNz6CmuC3dSmJBPXuj0F65Z/EsGKXyPV5RV8/wDX5JfD5s8byb3vJ9P9/gW4Hapc9lJkcNTR+BxOd0tZglYmQqeGoHj4GKN2fu+hkrUlRGYaagcYFeG7qRihiA4Y1KCNTGWx5HpWL4/iZpxjGuXJvx+hp/Y4U7b+38jHDjDoUEKWFOHRKjE9EjobSaeMYsxCUwOAAgfCqdtzYa3X2nmlJTly5gTHsqzBQ56/AVZw6a8HivhOXi6fEZ5PxXS/JckvQ9DFkx4f8cEhqha+UdTWTjkJISt1KSTlFjdUZsoMAE5RMchVE3ObxLK323QvICCkn2SZN0nxFz0ovevaT7LZcZMEKQpXdCrCUk38Sis4f01wUd7f1ftRb4ubOgtpT98npFEtlvxPnXO395FowZfQE5oQoJVMQvKpQAkGBmUPKtnN90Iw6H4CiojM2FCUzIUfESPDUV2Y/gnBw7uJfdX/ALMnxEnuzpaFN8qz2bZ90VQXd9sOjs5WSF8QLJsCM3Ea8J40SN8cNmy9sJiYyr/Ku3Hwix9yNfRUZvKnuy5nDI4SOlaOYMnRfqKq7e92HP8Aejxsr8qJa3qYP96nzkVsoZF0ZOvH4oafYHZUSoEE2A0AGljFzr51C6y57wMeAn5VqzvAydHUf4h+dGJ2oj76fUU1Kcd0FRewuUec14i2vlRzu2cOPbdaH4lpHzNVfeTelgpyYQFx0kd9sHIm4nhCpFtIvratseqbpIyySjBW37jhQHOshI50k2XjnSgF6Aq9hxBiM0WnXSn+zmA4Myu6BrcTHPwGvpVT+Xc17DIoKbVJ+O/oC7VcQ2wtR1UChInUnX0B+NVXAsrdWltPtKPGw5knpVk2wWXoh1KQmwBCgB4zEec0mU2cMtD0hSU96UHOFJF1RlnhWE21zfII0+SFm1t3g85hWXFQpTyVACDCRmGZd4AMKgXkgAxNDJ2IwheZzaDKbkgNy8bgi5A7xgm5pevahVj2XkuGEKbymZlKQkHyJCj5mhFnH51oYQ4IUoAsNBvQkDvNoHzrLU3ua8lsXgONqv8Aaccv95DQSk9BXqr2H2ZtVSQSy8TzURPnKprNQ8mQKiIsM6PEcvGjkqodputH8a237SxPIXP/AB51suZDDQq9ThyASSABqTYVWX9un3Ex4m59NB8aXu4lSzKlE9eHQaDyreOCTM5ZYLqWh/brafZGc+Fk/wCI8OgNV8OEKUoHIVa5JBjlm14cIoXPRmGwLq/ZQY5mw+NbrDGPNsxfEN9yP7+/U1QQNABOvM9TxrJXTNrYcDM64EjjH8xt8KJwoww/ZNl48wMyf8aoR6Gq7aEe6iZRzZO++Xh/CE7DC1+whSugt66U0w+wHVe0UoHqfhTttbh1yoHId4+sAD0NESANTPEn+rVhPipvu8io8JBb8wHDbvtJuolR8dKaM4ZCbBI+nppQ6MQVewnMOZsn11PUAjxqdDLh1UkeAST8Z+lcc4rI7nz+vM6YpQ7vIKQqNLVIDQ6cGr/yK8gj+WtvsqwR+sNyRcJPukjQDiKqqGEKNjUeIxrbY/WOJT+IgUux+777sj7YtI5BAA/ykE+ZpG5+j5zUPpJ8UEf7jRRlKc13Yjh/ezDJsF5ugJHrFLXt90+62fMD55vpS53cfEA91bao1uocAbWvrWBue8PaBP4cp/3T8KWlvqYp8RJ0kv37kju+Tp0SR/H/ACpSa0b2464hxWVJKcpg9osFJJBJzLJsSkWgd682jydhJT7aHfMED5UThMI0kygFKhxC1gjzBtT0eb9WdGPgOJybyj+/YAe2ovskKCWxmW6mOzQUwkNGwUDF3FTztyoFW0XCgtkpyERlDbYHO0JkXq1qw/bKGYKdVEDNmcMchMmpjsMD2mEp/EkJ+dGhdTWfwnOt8qXqU/EbRWttLSgnKmCkhIBECBca2PGpMTtda3G3ChsFvSAQFCxhQkzp4amrE7hMONQ0On/AodzD4TkPLN/xRpRjLgc0f+2Pq/YUM7XSHlOqZSQsAFsHKkEQMwMGNPia1wuPbSytBz55JbVqANQFXHLWONNmcBgVKhSnhOmQCSeXfVFM8Js3ZrYOfD4h3/8AR5tIHTsiPjRenZv8/vuYdlnTpuL/AH6CT7UlXYlDok911JtBMXEgSNdCeFThL4U4lIzECUEAwoRoI1vardhcZs5v/ssMnkSC+qfHMBHqaF2pvq6hJ+y4hCABZH2cJB8MwMj0q1nyrZ+ppHBH/lX2EbGLxIU2nsVZlicpR3hyOUiY8TVgweB2kr/tiLx3ksgdb1jdnfLCYdouvqU7iXVFxyMsJUYGUXmwAufKBapsb+mFkewxPLMr/wBat8VLwRosTW0n6sc4PYm0Bq4y30CJ/wAqPrUytzHHFFTuJUSYzZUmFRwNxPpVGxX6Ynz7DbaeoUfrSXF/pNxy/wC8CfwpSPpUdvk6JL7IHhT7zb+rZ17CboMo1cdV4FQA+U0QrZeDRdeW0e2tRAImLExN64Jit7sY57WIcI5ZjHpS1zHLV7S1HqTUTlOfeZcccY7H0Mdt7NY0WwmPuhE/C9A4r9JGBRotSvwg/wDFcEznnXi6nioes/Ko0lUjszn6V8PNmlkc7fnXq4x26f3vJJrNGkfIle2g4v2lmOQsPQVohskwkEnkEn4HiK1/tbDo9lorPNZEfX5VMjaeJX+zbSgc4A+KrH0ruc2u6qORY77zsLw+yHVagJHifoJqc4bDN/tXwT91P5CTQo2U65+2fJH3UkkfQD0o/BbJYRHczHmrvfDT4VEs3n6FLAvD1PYba7emGwyln70QP8Rk+sUckYtz23EMjkgZldCTYdRUoeA8B8qEf28yjVwE8k975WrF5PL/ANNNKW7DWNlNAhSgXVfedOc+QNh6UzSqqbiN7v8Axt+az9B+dLntt4l331Ackd0eov6mocm9w1x2jzOhrxKEkBSgCbAE3J8Bqa2bAUZVdINk8LcTzM+nXSk7s4fKpTq9dE3kyfaPWIH8Rq1MYgRSstJ9VQ8Q4KIQ5SZD1ToxBp2FDhtYqZak5Z5EHyBE/CaR/aDUOJxCoidSB6kA/CnYUXFtKTxqPbOIZwzaVvLus5W20AuOuKicqEJuT6ajnVRxm0lpEgmoNj744fCy4pku4k5gFrNkJOoRqQDAk6npUOXgNRLxs/YuId76wGEmIQqFuRwK8pyoV4Aq4X4UcdhJT7S1q8Ep+ulcs3o/SVi3UdmlXYj3y3ZRP3QrhHEjj0vQW948Qhedt5xKgfaC1z6zUpTY6SPpnC7Kw51zfxE/Sj2tgtyCUNKHDuEn1Kj8q5h+jr9JP2tQwuLID5/ZO2AcP3V8M3I8a6FgNsZF5VnukwZ908+nP1qLadSKpVaGTuzSAezUG54pSCfnVZ2vuI5iO99sOlpbm3XPVzU+BxoZzFJQZB7qiAfBR0PmbHxI8avVRJzTE/osxPuPtK/FnT8gaWYn9G+0EiyW1/hWP90V2hLs1l10JGZRCQNSSAB5mnrCj562huttJiFHCOmFD2AHBa/uFRpPjNsYhByrb7M8lJUD6KNfQ696cLmCUu9oo2AaSpyT1QCKJcIcbBU2DI7zagFAHRQ5Egz1qtYtJ8ztbaWJzAK/yx4WrTE7Yt+zv+L/AIruO1NxdmviRh0tHm1+r/yju+oqj7a/RCYJw2Jnkl4f70/y0+0ixaWc1c2iD7pHmDURxadII6ij9rbvYnBrBxDKkpB9sd5B/iFh0MGlOOUCqU6QKtJdAthKcitDf+uFYLfjQAFNGk2HSk+Q0RKSRxqHs1jiSPSjOzBm3pwjjUTbh6jmKEI1w7OcgBClHkAVHxpk5s11CUKUnKlc5SYkxBNtRZQ1jWsbK2gW15kkTyICgf4TYmrNjGsS+A04ypt7tZSlbbiQpOQ58qkpWFRCTY6coFJ30HaK19mP3v69a9TN7AdmcqypKhqOxxP1aFepVILQi+2FskIaSgDiUmfMzRTW2klBzlIMxaTI42vVdWVq9pRPUzWUtDiaObGoyeyLA9vGkeyknrAH1oN3bryvZhP4RJ9TNL0hI4VJ2tPSUsLe7NnO0X7aifxEn0FZRhhxJ8qiOJA41ocbyHrVKJSx4Y78xghKRoB86lLwGpikysUo8Y6VGV1aiV/cxjygi04DGjLYz3jPmE/lTpnGWrnzTxSZFOsPiyRY+RsaxyRpmWvW7ZcWsYOJoxrFjmKpyMcRrNENbUFRYUXBL9auPjMnXUm3Qj61XWtop51MzjwVTOlhPx18qLCh088DwPw/OlO0lhKSoAyNNNTYfEz5VscaDxoPaTuZIH73yBpAVParl8tLDRe0z3zQZraOxLMtuFJCkkggggjgRcGu3bH3j+04dt8+2Rkc/GmxPnr51w4VcNwsaQl5qbd1Y66H6UpxsE6O8bC2znaAJujunmRqk+lv4aMdxQUkpOhBB8+Vc33c2iQtQ+8k+qe8P93rViGLNTpJbNdobx472G8rYEjME5lmJBJUbDTgnzqt4vDOuqzOrU4ea1FUdJ08qeIclSxrBB6SkVq8pKUlSiEpAkkmABzJ4UKKK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https://inmytincan.files.wordpress.com/2013/10/thai-thai.jpg
https://inmytincan.files.wordpress.com/2013/10/thai-thai.jpg
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

trofirhen
Oct 12, 2016, 8:29 PM
.....I think a number of people have noticed that WestJet appears to be developing stronger and stronger relationships with Skyteam. They get along with Oneworld, bit it Skyteam just stands out. Time will tell what happens. I would love for them to become full members.
hmm, imagine them doing a lower-cost regular Paris Orly-YVR (thinking totally selfishly here, of course)...

casper
Oct 13, 2016, 3:44 AM
hmm, imagine them doing a lower-cost regular Paris Orly-YVR (thinking totally selfishly here, of course)...

You have my vote on that. Every time I go to Paris it is always on the opposite end of the city. You get off the flight then tat the RER for an hour to the opposite end f the city. An Orly flight option would be sweet.

mezzanine
Oct 13, 2016, 5:35 AM
It could also be Star alliance's newest member/junior partner, Juneyao airlines out of their shanghai hub. Not sure how a new chinese airline will fit with the bilateral, but they want to have new intercontinental routes (http://airsoc.com/articles/view/id/56c64ffe31394479328b4567/juneyao-airlines-eyes-long-haul-intercontinental-routes) and if they horse trade with other airlines/CAAC for a slot at YVR, i'm sure they'll make a go of it.


Their red livery is colorful too..

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/71/Juneyao_Airlines_Airbus_A321-211_at_Shanghai_Hongqiao.jpg

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juneyao_Airlines

LeftCoaster
Oct 13, 2016, 6:31 PM
If it is VivaAerobus apparently it wouldn't be their first time at YVR:

http://scontent.cdninstagram.com/t51.2885-15/s750x750/sh0.08/e35/13422892_1028344357200925_1911097842_n.jpg?ig_cache_key=MTI3NDM5NDA0NzcwMTMzODYyOA%3D%3D.2

https://scontent-cdg2-1.cdninstagram.com/t51.2885-15/e35/13259080_1086930844711526_181085046_n.jpg?ig_cache_key=MTI1NjA0MjI0OTUyMzk1NDI2Mg%3D%3D.2

https://www.instagram.com/jwolfe.aviation/

trofirhen
Oct 13, 2016, 7:48 PM
deleted

trofirhen
Oct 13, 2016, 7:55 PM
Great to have this new airline. Looked it up and it's Mexican low cost (as most already knew) and they have only limited internal Mexico City > other major Mexican cities, ex: not Monterrey only Torreon is a nothwards destination, others to Baja, Gudalajara, Cancun, and other resorts.
This airline is very "local" in character, (and that may be a good sign). Either they're seasonal / resort material, or they will provide new year-round routes.
Perhaps as, or more importantly, VIVA has a larger hub at Guadalajara and apparently yhe largest at Monterrey, which currently has the only non domestic flight: MTY-IAH.
Could all this this possibly mean what I hope it means?

https://www.vivaaerobus.com/en/destinations/all-destinations#image6

SFUVancouver
Oct 13, 2016, 8:13 PM
If we're doing rampant speculation, I could see Norwegian eventually planting a flag in YVR. Their 787s have the legs and the low-cost-to-Europe market is definitely healthy. I also love the look of their planes.

Norwegian 787
https://www.luxurytraveldiary.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/norwegian-airlines-boeing-787-dreamliner-premium-economy-review-1038x503.jpg
Source: Airliners.net Bernie Leighton

I understand that there is some hold-up for them to get access to Canada because of their multiple Air Operating Certificates, but that will get resolved in time.

trofirhen
Oct 13, 2016, 8:28 PM
If we're doing rampant speculation, I could see Norwegian eventually planting a flag in YVR. Their 787s have the legs and the low-cost-to-Europe market is definitely healthy. I also love the look of their planes.

Norwegian 787
https://www.luxurytraveldiary.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/norwegian-airlines-boeing-787-dreamliner-premium-economy-review-1038x503.jpg
Source: Airliners.net Bernie Leighton
Hey, I have been thinkng the same thing. In fact, wealthy Norwegians who want to fly to Tahiti follow an arc that cuts about through the northern third of Vancouver Island.
I wonder if that might interest them? Yeah, I love their cool, sleekly painted planes, too. Imaging Norwegian doing an Oslo - Vancouver - Tahiti thing, even seasonally!
*OK, sir, a question to you: what would Norwegian get out of a YVR route? Their market? Johnny warned not to expect an array of European destinations.
But, yes, I'd love it if Norwegian could in some way find YVR viable and profitable. Would Oslo make a good low-cost destination for YVR pax? *Feedback on this one very welcome. Thank you.
(Though, frankly, they're liable to get no more than YYZ if they get anything in Canada)

SFUVancouver
Oct 13, 2016, 9:27 PM
Norwegian is complicated and doesn't function like a traditional legacy airline. In addition to operating as an European continental low-cost carrier, they're also a long-haul low-cost carrier that bears more resemblance to Jetstar or Air Asia X with a la carte service on long-thin routes using modern equipment and high-density cabins.

To complicate things further, Norwegian utilizes four air operating certificates (two in Norway, one in the UK, and one in Ireland). The US currently only allows service using one of the Norwegian air operating certificate entities, but Norwegian can still share planes within the entire group and operate flights to the US from bases spread across Europe. Norwegian currently operates flights with 787 equipment to LAX, JFK, Boston, Orlando, Ft. Lauderdale, San Juan Puerto Rico, and St. Croix US Virgin Islands flying from Oslo, Stockholm, Copenhagen, Paris, and London Gatwick.

Here's a good interview with the president of Norwegian, who seems like a rambunctious and pugilistic character, which are traits appropriate for an executive taking on incumbent legacy carriers.

https://skift.com/2016/10/06/norwegian-air-ceo-interview-regulators-and-airlines-are-afraid-of-us/

Norwegian also intends to operate transatlantic service with B737Max-8 aircraft when those join their fleet, and is building up a long-haul base in Barcelona.

trofirhen
Oct 13, 2016, 11:04 PM
Norwegian is complicated and doesn't function like a traditional legacy airline. In addition to operating as an European continental low-cost carrier, they're also a long-haul low-cost carrier that bears more resemblance to Jetstar or Air Asia X with a la carte service on long-thin routes using modern equipment and high-density cabins.

To complicate things further, Norwegian utilizes four air operating certificates (two in Norway, one in the UK, and one in Ireland). The US currently only allows service using one of the Norwegian air operating certificate entities, but Norwegian can still share planes within the entire group and operate flights to the US from bases spread across Europe. Norwegian currently operates flights with 787 equipment to LAX, JFK, Boston, Orlando, Ft. Lauderdale, San Juan Puerto Rico, and St. Croix US Virgin Islands flying from Oslo, Stockholm, Copenhagen, Paris, and London Gatwick.

Here's a good interview with the president of Norwegian, who seems like a rambunctious and pugilistic character, which are traits appropriate for an executive taking on incumbent legacy carriers.

https://skift.com/2016/10/06/norwegian-air-ceo-interview-regulators-and-airlines-are-afraid-of-us/

Norwegian also intends to operate transatlantic service with B737Max-8 aircraft when those join their fleet, and is building up a long-haul base in Barcelona.

"En bref," might they gain access to Canada, and if so, to YVR, do you think?

LeftCoaster
Oct 13, 2016, 11:32 PM
"En bref," might they gain access to Canada, and if so, to YVR, do you think?

Maybe.

LeftCoaster
Oct 14, 2016, 12:09 AM
Sultan of Brunei's plane was at YVR yesterday. Not sure what it was doing there but not a shabby looking 747-8...

http://scontent.cdninstagram.com/t51.2885-15/s750x750/sh0.08/e35/14704949_1231390160250361_4709493972924366848_n.jpg?ig_cache_key=MTM1OTc0MTgyNzQxMDIxMjg3Mw%3D%3D.2

http://scontent.cdninstagram.com/t51.2885-15/s750x750/sh0.08/e35/14478313_1205956392760523_5360953422675705856_n.jpg?ig_cache_key=MTM1OTk5MTEyODI1OTAwMDQxNQ%3D%3D.2

https://www.instagram.com/planelovers15/?hl=en

mezzanine
Oct 15, 2016, 4:00 AM
I was wondering if/when AC was going to expand the international MLL. If AC really wanted to build YVR into a major hub with all the new transborder and intl flights coming in, the intl MLL was getting pretty cramped. It looks like they are finally working on an expansion, which bodes well for future YVR plans with AC.

In addition to the new Newark Liberty airport lounge, Air Canada is investing in the customer airport experience throughout its network with a new Montreal international Maple Leaf Lounge opening in November 2016, an expanded Vancouver international Maple Leaf Lounge opening in summer 2017, a new Saskatoon domestic Maple Leaf Lounge opening in fall 2017, and refurbishments planned for its domestic Maple Leaf Lounges at Toronto, Montreal and Vancouver in 2017.

http://news.morningstar.com/all/canada-news-wire/20161014C4732/air-canadas-newest-maple-leaf-lounge-opens-at-newark-airport.aspx

Looking forward to the YVR-DEL kickoff next week! :cheers:

Klazu
Oct 15, 2016, 4:47 AM
Sultan of Brunei's plane was at YVR yesterday. Not sure what it was doing there but not a shabby looking 747-8...

I wonder which penthouse(s) got bought this time... :rolleyes:

trofirhen
Oct 15, 2016, 3:56 PM
Could anyone tell SSP forum WHERE viva.aerobus is going to serve, and when? // Will it be seasonal, or year-round? // Will the destinations be new ones, or existing ones? Thank you:)

Denscity
Oct 15, 2016, 5:55 PM
Could anyone tell SSP forum WHERE viva.aerobus is going to serve, and when? // Will it be seasonal, or year-round? // Will the destinations be new ones, or existing ones? Thank you:)

Aerobus was just a guess not confirmed. All we know is that the livery is brightly coloured and will probably fly to Asia.

trofirhen
Oct 15, 2016, 6:19 PM
Aerobus was just a guess not confirmed. All we know is that the livery is brightly coloured and will probably fly to Asia.
Thank you, although this surprises me a little, as they are a Mexican airline, with all intra-Mexico flights, the exception being Monterrey - Houston.

Klazu
Oct 15, 2016, 8:08 PM
Let's try and guess, using pictures. I typed in colorful Asian airliners on google, to 'images' and got a batch.

Vietnam Airlines would be nice, A350 or a Dreamliner. The latter has seen some serious aerial action!

KYbM-3E11Qo

Johnny Aussie
Oct 16, 2016, 6:40 AM
Hmmmm. VivaAerobús planning to fly to Asia?! Awesomeness!

Hope they fly via YVR!

Although come to think of it... not sure they'd make it on their brand spanking new A320neos they have on order.

Maybe a routing MEX-YVR-PKC-NRT?

PKC - Petropavlovsk could become the new Reykjavik offering some super duper stopover packages on the way to and from.

Don't think VivaAerobús is quite colourful enough though... Need more colour on the vertical stabiliser.

trofirhen
Oct 16, 2016, 11:27 AM
Hmmmm. VivaAerobús planning to fly to Asia?! Awesomeness!

Hope they fly via YVR!

Although come to think of it... not sure they'd make it on their brand spanking new A320neos they have on order.

Maybe a routing MEX-YVR-PKC-NRT?

PKC - Petropavlovsk could become the new Reykjavik offering some super duper stopover packages on the way to and from.

Don't think VivaAerobús is quite colourful enough though... Need more colour on the vertical stabiliser.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/fd/Petropawlowsk_und_Koryaksky.jpg/800px-Petropawlowsk_und_Koryaksky.jpg
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/fd/Petropawlowsk_und_Koryaksky.jpg/800px-Petropawlowsk_und_Koryaksky.jpg
Well-connected airport, and a fascinating town!! It would be a perfect stopover, as you say!! Great destination for 'ecotourists,' as well!!! :yes:

Klazu
Oct 16, 2016, 4:10 PM
Ummm... The mountain looks amazing, but I am not sure of the old commie town... :roll:

I think Johnny pulled one his trademark pranks again...

trofirhen
Oct 16, 2016, 4:39 PM
Ummm... The mountain looks amazing, but I am not sure of the old commie town... :roll:

I think Johnny pulled one his trademark pranks again...
Precisely the point.;)

casper
Oct 16, 2016, 6:24 PM
Ummm... The mountain looks amazing, but I am not sure of the old commie town... :roll:

I think Johnny pulled one his trademark pranks again...

I think Russia is a long shot. If it were to happen I would guess Novosibirsk Tolmachevo Airport. However that is a very long long shot.

trofirhen
Oct 16, 2016, 7:31 PM
I think Russia is a long shot. If it were to happen I would guess Novosibirsk Tolmachevo Airport. However that is a very long long shot.
Novosibirsk Tolmachevo serves just about all of Russia, but even at that, transport Canada would nix it, so forget it.

CareerShow
Oct 16, 2016, 10:19 PM
A route to Russia would indeed be a shocking one

jmt18325
Oct 16, 2016, 11:41 PM
So does that mean no Moscow for Air Canada from YYZ? It was in their short term plans.

casper
Oct 17, 2016, 3:08 AM
So does that mean no Moscow for Air Canada from YYZ? It was in their short term plans.

Out of YVR I don't think we would ever see Moscow. Perhaps out of YYZ. I don't know anything about the market or its viability. I believe many years ago Air Canada did fly to Moscow. I don't remember exactly, I think may have involved a stop in Heathrow or another European city en-route.

If it were to be a YVR, Siberia is the only place that makes sense (and it is a long shot) and flying to Novosibirsk over the pacific or arctic perhaps. Still very unlikely.

nname
Oct 17, 2016, 3:20 AM
Out of YVR I don't think we would ever see Moscow. Perhaps out of YYZ. I don't know anything about the market or its viability. I believe many years ago Air Canada did fly to Moscow. I don't remember exactly, I think may have involved a stop in Heathrow or another European city en-route.

If it were to be a YVR, Siberia is the only place that makes sense (and it is a long shot) and flying to Novosibirsk over the pacific or arctic perhaps. Still very unlikely.

YVR-OVB-DEL on rouge :p

jmt18325
Oct 17, 2016, 3:35 AM
Out of YVR I don't think we would ever see Moscow. Perhaps out of YYZ.

I know, I just didn't have another place to direct that question.

Johnny Aussie
Oct 17, 2016, 6:41 AM
Out of YVR I don't think we would ever see Moscow. Perhaps out of YYZ. I don't know anything about the market or its viability. I believe many years ago Air Canada did fly to Moscow. I don't remember exactly, I think may have involved a stop in Heathrow or another European city en-route.

If it were to be a YVR, Siberia is the only place that makes sense (and it is a long shot) and flying to Novosibirsk over the pacific or arctic perhaps. Still very unlikely.

YYZ-Russia is about 5X YVR-Russia. YVR-Siberia would be lucky to have 4 people per day.

Johnny Aussie
Oct 17, 2016, 6:46 AM
LH on the YVR-MUC route will revert back to daily 333 next summer versus a mix of 346/333 as per last summer.

No more flying pencil.

http://www.routesonline.com/news/38/airlineroute/269356/lufthansa-s17-munich-vancouver-aircraft-changes-as-of-17oct16/

Johnny Aussie
Oct 17, 2016, 9:31 AM
BA will once again commence 388 services on the YVR-LHR route effective 1 May 2017. Originally 388 services were to recommence on 1 June 2017.

http://www.routesonline.com/news/38/airlineroute/269362/british-airways-updates-s17-vancouver-operations/

trofirhen
Oct 17, 2016, 12:46 PM
YYZ-Russia is about 5X YVR-Russia. YVR-Siberia would be lucky to have 4 people per day.
Putting Russia aside for a moment, what about this order from our friends at Transport Canada that there has to be sufficient O&D to warrant a route?
It was posted here that a minuscule % of YYZ - CPH are O&D and that most are connecting pax.
Growing up on the North Shore, parts of it had neighbourhoods where it seemed one in every four families was Scandinavian.
Although not like Seattle, Vancouver and Western Canada have a respectable number of Scandinavians, many of whom would, I bet, be willing to go YVR-CPH.
So, if YYZ, in the middle of a huge Italian-Portuguese-WASP-and-other market gets CPH nonstop, 95+% NOT O&D, what are the probabilities for YVR? (zilch, of course)
*
That's just ONE example, one question.
*
Also (if I can get a serious reply to this) what was VIVA.AERO, that LCC Mexican airline, doing at YVR in the first place?? Visiting for afternoon tea? Showing off its ass?
* It must have been here for a reason. WHAT REASON? Thank you

mezzanine
Oct 17, 2016, 5:03 PM
YVR-DEL starts Oct 20. It looks like they had a PR event last week at the vancouver art gallery with local travel agents, south asian media and the consul general of india. Big question - will the service be made year-round?

Howlett told agents that Air Canada was relying on them to fill the flights as it was placing the Dreamliner, a $100 million aircraft, on the route. “This represents a huge investment of capital on the Indian market and the Delhi corridor,” he said, adding that it would be through the work of agents that the seasonal flights could turn into continued service in the future. “We are counting on everyone here,” he said, adding “we have to demonstrate a positive return on our investment.” The seasonal service is currently scheduled to run until April 8, 2017.

http://www.travelweek.ca/news/build-better-route-will-come-air-canada-launches-direct-delhi-service-ex-yvr/


http://www.voiceonline.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/AIR-CANADA-Flights-will-have-on-air-crew-that-speak-the-langauge-of-its-passenegers-300x200.jpg

http://www.voiceonline.com/air-canadas-exclusive-non-stop-flights-from-vancouver-to-delhi-ready-for-takeoff-beginning-october-20/

Canadian74
Oct 17, 2016, 5:45 PM
Don't think VivaAerobús is quite colourful enough though... Need more colour on the vertical stabiliser.

http://www.a350xwb.com/fileadmin/media_gallery/photogallery/big/1600x1200_1471010408_A350_THA_MSN044_First_flight-0011.jpg

LeftCoaster
Oct 17, 2016, 6:48 PM
LH on the YVR-MUC route will revert back to daily 333 next summer versus a mix of 346/333 as per last summer.

No more flying pencil.

http://www.routesonline.com/news/38/airlineroute/269356/lufthansa-s17-munich-vancouver-aircraft-changes-as-of-17oct16/

I saw this too, very sad. I love the proportions of the 346, hopefully they revise their schedule again and bring it back, although it's days in the skies at all seem numbered.

BA will once again commence 388 services on the YVR-LHR route effective 1 May 2017. Originally 388 services were to recommence on 1 June 2017.

http://www.routesonline.com/news/38/airlineroute/269362/british-airways-updates-s17-vancouver-operations/

Good news, I was hoping they would revise that date.


Also (if I can get a serious reply to this) what was VIVA.AERO, that LCC Mexican airline, doing at YVR in the first place?? Visiting for afternoon tea? Showing off its ass?
* It must have been here for a reason. WHAT REASON? Thank you

It was at YVR for a cruise ship charter apparently.

YVR-DEL starts Oct 20. It looks like they had a PR event last week at the vancouver art gallery with local travel agents, south asian media and the consul general of india. Big question - will the service be made year-round?



http://www.travelweek.ca/news/build-better-route-will-come-air-canada-launches-direct-delhi-service-ex-yvr/


http://www.voiceonline.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/AIR-CANADA-Flights-will-have-on-air-crew-that-speak-the-langauge-of-its-passenegers-300x200.jpg

http://www.voiceonline.com/air-canadas-exclusive-non-stop-flights-from-vancouver-to-delhi-ready-for-takeoff-beginning-october-20/

I hope they have success but I am worried about this route. I just went on line and you can see the seat map for any given flight. The planes are not very full even for the dates next week. Surprisingly business class doesn't look too bad but the premium econ and econ are sparse.

Canadian74
Oct 17, 2016, 8:51 PM
I hope they have success but I am worried about this route. I just went on line and you can see the seat map for any given flight. The planes are not very full even for the dates next week. Surprisingly business class doesn't look too bad but the premium econ and econ are sparse.

I suspect a lot of Y tickets are being sold by travel agents and people haven't selected their seats yet, waiting until check-in ? :shrug:
The intro prices were genuinely good so I'm sure Y will be quite full this season

trofirhen
Oct 17, 2016, 9:19 PM
I suspect a lot of Y tickets are being sold by travel agents and people haven't selected their seats yet, waiting until check-in ? :shrug:
The intro prices were genuinely good so I'm sure Y will be quite full this season
I sure hope you're right. Also, I hope (or rather had hoped) that this YVR-DEL route would unforeseeably "get big" on AC, pushing year-round service with PNW, even California customers.
That's a pipe dream, I guess, but wouldn't it be great to see YVR pushing beyond its preconceived route and service barriers.

SFUVancouver
Oct 17, 2016, 9:49 PM
YVR-DEL starts Oct 20. It looks like they had a PR event last week at the vancouver art gallery with local travel agents, south asian media and the consul general of india. Big question - will the service be made year-round?



http://www.travelweek.ca/news/build-better-route-will-come-air-canada-launches-direct-delhi-service-ex-yvr/


http://www.voiceonline.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/AIR-CANADA-Flights-will-have-on-air-crew-that-speak-the-langauge-of-its-passenegers-300x200.jpg

http://www.voiceonline.com/air-canadas-exclusive-non-stop-flights-from-vancouver-to-delhi-ready-for-takeoff-beginning-october-20/

Interesting that the dollar value of $100million was put out there as the price of a Dreamliner; that's less than half its list price. It pulls back the curtain a bit on Air Canada's discount from Boeing.

LeftCoaster
Oct 17, 2016, 10:47 PM
I suspect a lot of Y tickets are being sold by travel agents and people haven't selected their seats yet, waiting until check-in ? :shrug:
The intro prices were genuinely good so I'm sure Y will be quite full this season

Is that a thing? I thought one could pick a seat immediately with a Y purchase for an international flight. Has than changed?

Interesting that the dollar value of $100million was put out there as the price of a Dreamliner; that's less than half its list price. It pulls back the curtain a bit on Air Canada's discount from Boeing.

Good catch, I didn't even pick up on that. That's a huge discount if accurate.

SFUVancouver
Oct 17, 2016, 10:54 PM
Good catch, I didn't even pick up on that. That's a huge discount if accurate.

Agreed! That's less than the list price of a B739ER, if I'm not mistaken.

I was just poking around the Boeing website to see if I could find list prices for the different Dreamliner models and I noticed something neat: real-time Dreamliner flight-tracking using Flightaware data.

http://www.boeing.com/commercial/787/#/flight-tracker

VancouverOfTheFuture
Oct 18, 2016, 12:32 AM
does anyone know when YVR's future plan for the airport coming out? i remember reading it was sometime in October this year.

casper
Oct 18, 2016, 12:44 AM
Is that a thing? I thought one could pick a seat immediately with a Y purchase for an international flight. Has than changed?


One can, that does not mean one does. The travel agent has to book the ticket and then go in and assign a seat. If the customer does not ask for a seat assignment the travel agent is not required to assign one. In many overseas markets it also common with many airlines to not do seat assignments.

Seat assignments also get screwed up by codeshare and connecting tickets. For example a ticket issued on united stock from say San Francisco to Vancouver connecting to India. You can assign seats on the United flight, but to do the same on the Air Canada segment, you have to call United, get them to give you the PNR number in Air Canada then call Air Canada.

Johnny Aussie
Oct 18, 2016, 2:49 AM
does anyone know when YVR's future plan for the airport coming out? i remember reading it was sometime in October this year.

You are right... Official announcements on a few things are not far away.

Lots of colourful and exciting times ahead!!

Don't you just hate having to wait!!?

As for YVR-DEL, no question huge demand but as discussed... Will wait and see if it will meet AC's targets.

Good to see they are highlighting the fastest elapsed flying times from YYC, YEG, SEA, PDX and LAX are via YVR. Some relatively large South Asian communities in those cities.

Hot Rod
Oct 18, 2016, 2:52 AM
Is that a thing? I thought one could pick a seat immediately with a Y purchase for an international flight. Has than changed?



Good catch, I didn't even pick up on that. That's a huge discount if accurate.

it's no surprise that Boeing doesn't make any money on the 787. There was an article in the Seattle Times which stated that Boeing loses at least $26M per airplane on the 787.

The big money maker for Boeing is the 777 and to a lesser extent the 737.

casper
Oct 18, 2016, 4:03 AM
it's no surprise that Boeing doesn't make any money on the 787. There was an article in the Seattle Times which stated that Boeing loses at least $26M per airplane on the 787.

The big money maker for Boeing is the 777 and to a lesser extent the 737.

They were very late with the 787. They had to pay compensation to ah Canada and others. Some of the 777 and 767 were discounted as comoensation

Speedbird1
Oct 18, 2016, 5:09 AM
You are right... Official announcements on a few things are not far away.

Lots of colourful and exciting times ahead!!

Don't you just hate having to wait!!?


Makes me curious about whether Qantas might be one of the airlines being alluded to.. they're supposed to be making announcements regarding routes and seating on the 789s on Oct. 27.

Johnny Aussie
Oct 18, 2016, 5:24 AM
Makes me curious about whether Qantas might be one of the airlines being alluded to.. they're supposed to be making announcements regarding routes and seating on the 789s on Oct. 27.

Speculation is rife with YVR being one of the new QF 789 routes... The first route is going to be on an exisiting year-round Australia-Asia route.... but one of the "new" routes may in fact be SYD-YVR.

The route I'm alluding to is a new airline for YVR...

excel
Oct 18, 2016, 5:29 AM
Virgin Australia?

Johnny Aussie
Oct 18, 2016, 6:07 AM
Virgin Australia?

Hmmmm.... not quite colourful enough!

trofirhen
Oct 18, 2016, 7:08 AM
Speculation is rife with YVR being one of the new QF 789 routes... The first route is going to be on an exisiting year-round Australia-Asia route.... but one of the "new" routes may in fact be SYD-YVR.

The route I'm alluding to is a new airline for YVR...
Jetstar?

excel
Oct 18, 2016, 7:49 AM
^That would be awesome. It would be Jetstars first mainland NA destination. (Honolulu being their only current NA destination)

Johnny Aussie
Oct 18, 2016, 8:08 AM
Jetstar?

Hmmmm... MEL-HNL-YVR on JQ and SYD-YVR on QF.

trofirhen
Oct 18, 2016, 1:15 PM
Hmmmm... MEL-HNL-YVR on JQ and SYD-YVR on QF.
Nah! I take it all back. Why? You said these planes would be pretty and colorful, and Jetstar is pale grey with black and orange ... blecch .... the morning after of Hallowe'en

Canadian74
Oct 18, 2016, 5:18 PM
It would be nice to have Thai A350

LeftCoaster
Oct 18, 2016, 5:41 PM
One can, that does not mean one does. The travel agent has to book the ticket and then go in and assign a seat. If the customer does not ask for a seat assignment the travel agent is not required to assign one. In many overseas markets it also common with many airlines to not do seat assignments.

Seat assignments also get screwed up by codeshare and connecting tickets. For example a ticket issued on united stock from say San Francisco to Vancouver connecting to India. You can assign seats on the United flight, but to do the same on the Air Canada segment, you have to call United, get them to give you the PNR number in Air Canada then call Air Canada.

Interesting. I'v never used a travel agency before. That sounds like a huge hassle, but I guess worth the savings of not booking from the airline website.

Well hopefully economy is in fact full, because like I said, the business cabin was surprisingly well sold (easily half full at rates of $4,000 one way).

Speculation is rife with YVR being one of the new QF 789 routes... The first route is going to be on an exisiting year-round Australia-Asia route.... but one of the "new" routes may in fact be SYD-YVR.

The route I'm alluding to is a new airline for YVR...

Qantas certainly seems like a when not if, and a pretty immanent when too. That said I will miss the 744s when they pull them off the YVR route.

vanlaw
Oct 18, 2016, 10:49 PM
Hmmmm.... not quite colourful enough!

Might be a long shot, but could Southwest be planning expansion to Canada? There was a G&M article a couple years back about their desire to do so. Definitely a colourful vertical stabiliser. Notwithstanding that my money is on Thai given the previous discussions on it.

Speedbird1
Oct 18, 2016, 11:40 PM
Going off of the a.net post this morning about Air India expanding their North America services, is there a possibility they might be about to tack on their own flights to here?

casper
Oct 19, 2016, 12:30 AM
Interesting. I'v never used a travel agency before. That sounds like a huge hassle, but I guess worth the savings of not booking from the airline website.

Well hopefully economy is in fact full, because like I said, the business cabin was surprisingly well sold (easily half full at rates of $4,000 one way).


Same problem exists if you book online. If you book a flight on Air Canada that includes a Lufthansa or United connection, you can't pick the seats on the Air Canada site. You need to get the locator and go to the other airlines website.

All said, I don't know how the flight is doing. I also hope they are filling it up.