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Johnny Aussie
Nov 8, 2016, 4:00 AM
a little PR piece from BIV, but it really shows how the 787 is changing how AC looks at YVR and how long thin routes are finding a niche in YVR. No surprise that J/higher-yielding pax is driving AC YVR growth, no surprise that AC is "considering launching other routes out of Vancouver to “Asia and the South Pacific”" due to the dreamliner but I was surprised to learn that YVRAA is angling for mumbai.



https://www.biv.com/article/2016/11/dreamliner-opening-skies-increased-yvr-traffic/

Yeah, this is one where I highly doubt both parties are looking at it seriously.

YVR may be looking at it but I doubt AC is. It's taken this bloody long for someone to even have an attempt at YVR-DEL and only seasonal three weekly. You will see AC daily year round before even an attempt would be made for YVR-BOM. And my first point is a long way off.

Klazu
Nov 8, 2016, 4:02 AM
It feels like Air Canada is throwing new Dreamliners on new routes left and right. How many more they will be expecting to be delivered?

mezzanine
Nov 8, 2016, 4:49 AM
It feels like Air Canada is throwing new Dreamliners on new routes left and right. How many more they will be expecting to be delivered?

CAPA had a nice summary of AC's plans, but unfortunately, they paywalled (http://centreforaviation.com/analysis/air-canada-part-1-low-cost-rouge-is-a-pillar-of-growth-but-further-expansion-might-be-constrained-305028) it. I think AC's inflection point for this round is ~2018, when AC will receive all of its 787 orders, and when they plan that rouge will reach its its cap of 50 planes negotiated with its unions.

it looks like AC is expecting 9 more 787 deliveries in 2017. (https://www.aircanada.com/en/about/media/presentations/documents/Desjardins_Conference_Montreal160401.pdf)

Hot Rod
Nov 8, 2016, 5:41 AM
OK folks. This just released,

Air China and Hainan applying for BOTH to fly non-stop Chongqing to Los Angeles; Chongqing's first non-stop route to North America. If approved, it would begin in 6-months.

http://www.traveldailymedia.com/243369/chinese-airlines-plans-us-flights-from-chongqing/

My thoughts/questions:

1) does this now increase the likelihood of YVR getting Chongqing? CKG will open their new, MEGA terminal (T3A) in the spring and likely will try to add a lot of International and Intercontinental flights.

2) what happened to Tianjin and Hainan's application for Chongqing-Vancouver? :???:

3) does this now mean that more than one airline can fly city pair routes from China?

Interesting news nonetheless, but I'm surprised that YVR-CKG is not first and also surprised that LAX-YVR would be served by two airlines. ...

trofirhen
Nov 8, 2016, 2:07 PM
Yeah, this is one where I highly doubt both parties are looking at it seriously.

YVR may be looking at it but I doubt AC is. It's taken this bloody long for someone to even have an attempt at YVR-DEL and only seasonal three weekly. You will see AC daily year round before even an attempt would be made for YVR-BOM. And my first point is a long way off.
What about Melbourne? I thought that was supposed to be on the shortlist, or am I wrong?

jmt18325
Nov 8, 2016, 5:25 PM
I would also expect to see daily YYZ-BOM before any YVR-BOM.

And yes, Melbourne was on the short list. All announced routes are from the shortlist, save for YVR-DEL.

Johnny Aussie
Nov 8, 2016, 8:45 PM
I refer back often to the AC Investor Day 2018 network opportunities map.

MEL, AKL, SIN, BKK, CTS, FRA, CDG are the remaining unserved YVR destinations from that map. All are plausible in my opinion.

Some more likely than others of course but not completely ridiculous.

YVR-DEL and YVR-DUB were both missing from that map so it doesn't tell the whole story.

CareerShow
Nov 8, 2016, 9:35 PM
I refer back often to the AC Investor Day 2018 network opportunities map.

MEL, AKL, SIN, BKK, CTS, FRA, CDG are the remaining unserved YVR destinations from that map. All are plausible in my opinion.

Some more likely than others of course but not completely ridiculous.

YVR-DEL and YVR-DUB were both missing from that map so it doesn't tell the whole story.

Of the above destinations MEL, AKL, FRA and SIN are probably the most feasible for AC and would probably be serviced first before any of the other destinations. Rouge might be a candidate for CTS and CDG, as there is a lot of leisure traffic on those routes most likely. I would say BKK would be a Rouge flight, but the distance posses some problems for the 763 so I would say that route would be last.

trofirhen
Nov 8, 2016, 9:45 PM
Of the above destinations MEL, AKL, FRA and SIN are probably the most feasible for AC and would probably be serviced first before any of the other destinations. Rouge might be a candidate for CTS and CDG, as there is a lot of leisure traffic on those routes most likely. I would say BKK would be a Rouge flight, but the distance posses some problems for the 763 so I would say that route would be last.
Regarding BKK, I thought that Thai Airways was planning to make a near-future move to serve both YVR and SEA. Am I wrong on that?

nname
Nov 8, 2016, 11:24 PM
BR will operate the last 744 to YVR next fall on Oct 28. Starting from Oct 29, they will run YVR-TPE with their own version of 77W "HD"

According to airlineroute twitter, KMG-NKG-YVR will start Dec 20, replacing KMG-PVG-YVR... I guess now they can no longer swap planes mid-trip at PVG

AC's YYZ-DEL will be reduced to 6x weekly starting April. I wonder if they over-estimated the demand, or just making way for year-round YVR-DEL? :D [the loads on PE and C so far seems better on the YYZ route compared to the YVR route, though]

Hot Rod
Nov 9, 2016, 4:23 AM
nm

Johnny Aussie
Nov 9, 2016, 5:45 AM
Nanjing is a go on MU.

Three weekly YVR-NKG-KMG. Starting 20 December 2016.

YVR-PVG reduces to 11 flights per week as the 3 weekly KMG flights transfer to NKG.

http://www.routesonline.com/news/38/airlineroute/269741/china-eastern-schedules-nanjing-vancouver-dec-2016-launch/

YVR's list of Chinese direct flights:

Beijing
Chengdu
Guangzhou
Hangzhou
Kunming
Nanjing
Qingdao
Shanghai
Shenyang
Xiamen
Zhengzhou

nname
Nov 9, 2016, 6:28 AM
Any more coming to make it 12 or 13? :D

Air China Cargo reduced YEG flight to 2x weekly... not sure where that weekly will go.. with the 2x weekly remaining in bilateral, this could make another route feasible :D

Johnny Aussie
Nov 9, 2016, 7:29 AM
Any more coming to make it 12 or 13? :D

Air China Cargo reduced YEG flight to 2x weekly... not sure where that weekly will go.. with the 2x weekly remaining in bilateral, this could make another route feasible :D

CA has 15 pax per week and 4 cargo per week allocated.
They utilise these on:
YVR-PEK (up to 11 weekly)
YUL-PEK (4 weekly)
YEG-TSN (2 weekly cargo)

So that does leave 2 per week (can be utilised as pax or Cargo).

Perhaps they will boost YVR to 13 weekly.

mezzanine
Nov 9, 2016, 3:11 PM
Buried in the news today, new daily seasonal mainline service to FRA and seasonal 3x weekly rouge service to gatwick. FRA is a 787-8. Surprised that AC only made FRA service seasonal, but i suppose that may change depending on demand.

Air Canada today announced it is further boosting international flights at its Vancouver hub next summer with daily seasonal flights from YVR to Frankfurt, and three times weekly seasonal flights from YVR to London Gatwick. Flights begin June 1, 2017 and June 8, 2017 respectively, and tickets are now available for purchase.

"Air Canada continues to strategically increase its European flights at YVR with seasonal daily flights to Frankfurt next summer and three times weekly flights to London Gatwick," said Benjamin Smith, Air Canada President, Passenger Airlines. "The addition of our flights to Frankfurt, one of Europe's most important hubs, offers customers a wide array of convenient choices and the ease of one-stop connections with our Star Alliance partner Lufthansa when travelling to southern, central and eastern Europe as well as Africa, the Middle East and beyond.

http://aircanada.mediaroom.com/index.php?s=43&item=1079

mezzanine
Nov 9, 2016, 3:24 PM
and CAPA's view wrt to trump. any proposed hardline against mexico or china can play up to YVR's strengths but a move against intl trade and less open skies does not bode well for flying in general.

Even before the Presidential (and Congressional) election, it was already apparent that the fulcrum of US aviation policy had shifted towards a more protective and less liberal stance. Even if, following a confused bureaucratic process, the DoT has finally approved the NAI application, the reality is that it took two years, with strenuous objections to the delay by the US' sovereign partners.

Any future Administration will need to respond to a clear popular shift that emphasises job protection rather than trade options that increase jobs. Where Ms Clinton was prepared – or obliged – to dissociate herself from the TPP, something she believed to be a valuable trade measure, it is clear that world has changed irreversibly.

"Like all politicians, he says everything but once he gets elected, he will change his mind."
The final word is with Qatar Airways CEO, Akbar al Baker, someone with a habit of bluntly getting to the heart of the matter, speaking on CNBC on 17-May-2016: "I don't think Trump means what he says (about banning Muslims). He does not realize that he has a lot of investment in Muslim countries and at the same time there is a very huge Muslim population in the United States"..."Like all politicians, he says everything but once he gets elected, he will change his mind."

A lot of people will be hoping he is right. But regardless of what happens next, the earth has already moved, and not in a good direction for aviation.

http://centreforaviation.com/analysis/president-trump-and-us-aviation-a-likely-reversion-to-protectionism-312463

nname
Nov 9, 2016, 5:18 PM
Buried in the news today, new daily seasonal mainline service to FRA and seasonal 3x weekly rouge service to gatwick. FRA is a 787-8. Surprised that AC only made FRA service seasonal, but i suppose that may change depending on demand.



http://aircanada.mediaroom.com/index.php?s=43&item=1079

AC840 YVR1225 - 0705+1FRA 788 D
AC841 FRA1000 - 1055YVR 788 D

AC1934 YVR1645 - 1025+1LGW 763 246
AC1935 LGW1200 - 1410YVR 763 246

Seems like YVR-LGW will rotate with YYZ-LGW.. does that mean there are still 6x weekly Rouge flight unaccounted for?

I'm surprised there still slot to fit one more flight between 1000 and 1400...

Cage
Nov 9, 2016, 5:41 PM
AC840 YVR1225 - 0705+1FRA 788 D
AC841 FRA1000 - 1055YVR 788 D

AC1934 YVR1645 - 1025+1LGW 763 246
AC1935 LGW1200 - 1410YVR 763 246

Seems like YVR-LGW will rotate with YYZ-LGW.. does that mean there are still 6x weekly Rouge flight unaccounted for?

I'm surprised there still slot to fit one more flight between 1000 and 1400...

A Call to Gate system would help maximize gate capacity issues. :yes:

Aircraft would arrive, unload, push to a remote stand for servicing and maintenance checks, pull onto new gate that is determined based on current gate availability, load and take off.

Congrats on the FRA and LGW services. I am worried for the YYC-FRA service, hopefully that stays 789 and does not get downgraded. There a lot of YVR-FRA flyers using AC service through YYC in order to attain status and use upgrade points to get into the front cabins.

With the new LGW flight on rouge, will AC maintain the second YVR-LHR flight?

Johnny Aussie
Nov 9, 2016, 6:20 PM
Seems like YVR-LGW will rotate with YYZ-LGW.. does that mean there are still 6x weekly Rouge flight unaccounted for?

I'm surprised there still slot to fit one more flight between 1000 and 1400...

Yes, this means YYZ-LGW has been reduced to only 4 weekly next summer. And, yes, there still appear to be unused frequencies... Perhaps not done yet? :shrug:

Slots? They should be almost fully utilised now next summer during that time. Very very little wriggle room left.


Congrats on the FRA and LGW services. I am worried for the YYC-FRA service, hopefully that stays 789 and does not get downgraded. There a lot of YVR-FRA flyers using AC service through YYC in order to attain status and use upgrade points to get into the front cabins.

With the new LGW flight on rouge, will AC maintain the second YVR-LHR flight?

The YVR-FRA launch has been on the cards for years. Another tick off the 2018 Network Opportunities map!

YYC-FRA should be safe from a downgauge. As for YYC with its new Int'l terminal, I'll bet the CAA was hoping AC would announce something new from there. They aren't giving YYC any love.

Right now the second YVR-LHR remains in the cards and is actually scheduled to be upgauged to a 789 from a 788 next summer. Of course this can change but AC is getting close to finalising summer 2017. Or perhaps the 789 is pulled and sent somewhere else?!

Plus we have TS increasing YVR-MAN to 3x weekly next summer (YYC-MAN cancelled).

We will see what Westjet does when they finalise 2017 as well... Will they increase YVR-LGW to daily?

UK August Stats for YVR-UK were just huge. All four routes showing gains and total traffic smashed through 100,000 pax just to London!! (LHR and LGW combined).

http://www.caa.co.uk/uploadedFiles/CAA/Content/Standard_Content/Data_and_analysis/Datasets/Airport_stats/Airport_data_2016_08/Table_12_1_Intl_Air_Pax_Traffic_Route_Analysis.pdf

All in all YVR-Europe will see another big summer next year for sure!

YVR's press release for the two new services...

http://www.yvr.ca/en/media/news-releases/2016/air-canada-announces-service-to-frankfurt-and-london-gatwick

nname
Nov 9, 2016, 7:32 PM
A Call to Gate system would help maximize gate capacity issues. :yes:

Aircraft would arrive, unload, push to a remote stand for servicing and maintenance checks, pull onto new gate that is determined based on current gate availability, load and take off.

Right now all gate would have at least 2 or maybe even 3 flights within the time frame as each flight stay at gate for less than 2 hours. I don't think Call to Gate system would save much time over that with the extra cost of going to/from the remote stand....

Gordon
Nov 9, 2016, 7:39 PM
Would these YVr Europe flights not be departing late afternoon early evening departures? the 10AM - 2PM period is still going to be very tight. I would think gates 90 92 will get alot more use.

can YvR absorb more capacity ont the FRA route?

Johnny Aussie
Nov 9, 2016, 8:01 PM
Would these YVr Europe flights not be departing late afternoon early evening departures? the 10AM - 2PM period is still going to be very tight. I would think gates 90 92 will get alot more use.

can YvR absorb more capacity ont the FRA route?

The new FRA flight will be on the ground at YVR from 1055 - 1225.

Yes YVR-FRA can absorb more capacity... this has been planned for awhile.

In fact, Condor's latest schedule update has bumped YVR up to daily next summer. I don't know if this is a case of just schedule shuffling (ie add then pull back) but right now DE is showing daily flights next summer.

sacrifice333
Nov 9, 2016, 8:12 PM
ACs new YVR->FRA route currently showing 2 Business Class award-seats per flight for most of the schedule, FYI.

Yes, this means YYZ-LGW has been reduced to only 4 weekly next summer. And, yes, there still appear to be unused frequencies... Perhaps not done yet? :shrug:

Slots? They should be almost fully utilised now next summer during that time. Very very little wriggle room left.



The YVR-FRA launch has been on the cards for years. Another tick off the 2018 Network Opportunities map!

YYC-FRA should be safe from a downgauge. As for YYC with its new Int'l terminal, I'll bet the CAA was hoping AC would announce something new from there. They aren't giving YYC any love.

Right now the second YVR-LHR remains in the cards and is actually scheduled to be upgauged to a 789 from a 788 next summer. Of course this can change but AC is getting close to finalising summer 2017. Or perhaps the 789 is pulled and sent somewhere else?!

Plus we have TS increasing YVR-MAN to 3x weekly next summer (YYC-MAN cancelled).

We will see what Westjet does when they finalise 2017 as well... Will they increase YVR-LGW to daily?

UK August Stats for YVR-UK were just huge. All four routes showing gains and total traffic smashed through 100,000 pax just to London!! (LHR and LGW combined).

http://www.caa.co.uk/uploadedFiles/CAA/Content/Standard_Content/Data_and_analysis/Datasets/Airport_stats/Airport_data_2016_08/Table_12_1_Intl_Air_Pax_Traffic_Route_Analysis.pdf

All in all YVR-Europe will see another big summer next year for sure!

YVR's press release for the two new services...

http://www.yvr.ca/en/media/news-releases/2016/air-canada-announces-service-to-frankfurt-and-london-gatwick

zahav
Nov 9, 2016, 9:03 PM
I know this is going to sound like I'm whining (and I think it's because we've been pretty spoiled in the good news department lately!), but I'm a little disappointed we aren't getting new destinations, these routes are already served by multiple carriers. Still great news and awesome that Air Canada has that confidence in YVR and is deploying capacity on new routes, but I wish those planes could be used on routes to new cities. You know, make our destinations-served list even better :p

Klazu
Nov 9, 2016, 11:26 PM
I know this is going to sound like I'm whining (and I think it's because we've been pretty spoiled in the good news department lately!), but I'm a little disappointed we aren't getting new destinations, these routes are already served by multiple carriers. Still great news and awesome that Air Canada has that confidence in YVR and is deploying capacity on new routes, but I wish those planes could be used on routes to new cities. You know, make our destinations-served list even better :p

These are still routes that many of us are actually flying and more options and competition is always great! I just hope Christmas time would see more flights as everything seems to be for summer. Many people travel home around Christmas.

vanlaw
Nov 9, 2016, 11:37 PM
These are still routes that many of us are actually flying and more options and competition is always great! I just hope Christmas time would see more flights as everything seems to be for summer. Many people travel home around Christmas.

More options are great, but the problem with AC running this route is that I'm not sure there will be a whole lot of price competition as both AC and LH are star alliance partners.I checked for next September (usually when prices come down a bit after the peak of summer), and AC had basically come in and matched LH's fares, which are generally on the more expensive side for for YVR to Europe direct. I do hope I'm wrong though and that there is some price competition between the two.

nname
Nov 9, 2016, 11:38 PM
These are still routes that many of us are actually flying and more options and competition is always great! I just hope Christmas time would see more flights as everything seems to be for summer. Many people travel home around Christmas.

I'm sure AC will need to find some work for these additional planes instead of parking them somewhere for the entire winter...

Still waiting for news about the colorful tail :D

trofirhen
Nov 9, 2016, 11:52 PM
I know this is going to sound like I'm whining (and I think it's because we've been pretty spoiled in the good news department lately!), but I'm a little disappointed we aren't getting new destinations, these routes are already served by multiple carriers. Still great news and awesome that Air Canada has that confidence in YVR and is deploying capacity on new routes, but I wish those planes could be used on routes to new cities. You know, make our destinations-served list even better :p
For several years I ranted about getting Paris year-round (driving people crazy), and YVR finally got it with Air France in 2015. I was thrilled.
Recently, I understand Craig Richmond mentioned Barcelona, 'tho I'm sure that would be summer seasonal, (maybe on Norwegian, which is setting up a base there).
Istanbul was hotly discussed until the recent Turkish instability brought on by Recep Erdogan, who is abadoning Turkish secularism and trying to make the country Islamist.
Another route I bet would work out - maybe even year-round, might be Rome, given the big Italian population in Vancouver. It was listed as being in high demand, but others say not.
Right now we only have LHR, FRA, AMS, and CDG year-round. I'd sure love to see a couple more - and I bet YVR could swing it, given the surge in European pax #s.

Johnny Aussie
Nov 10, 2016, 12:03 AM
But YVR has added so many new routes in the last 12 months though??

The reality is capacity is going to be allocated where the numbers are.

trofirhen
Nov 10, 2016, 12:50 AM
But YVR has added so many new routes in the last 12 months though??

The reality is capacity is going to be allocated where the numbers are.
In the last year or two European pax numbers have surged. So why not another European destination, maybe two?

Johnny Aussie
Nov 10, 2016, 12:58 AM
I'm sure AC will need to find some work for these additional planes instead of parking them somewhere for the entire winter...

Still waiting for news about the colorful tail :D

Be patient about the colourful tail!! 😁

Johnny Aussie
Nov 10, 2016, 12:59 AM
These are still routes that many of us are actually flying and more options and competition is always great! I just hope Christmas time would see more flights as everything seems to be for summer. Many people travel home around Christmas.

YVR - Europe still highly seasonal. That's the reality folks.

mezzanine
Nov 10, 2016, 1:49 AM
More options are great, but the problem with AC running this route is that I'm not sure there will be a whole lot of price competition as both AC and LH are star alliance partners.I checked for next September (usually when prices come down a bit after the peak of summer), and AC had basically come in and matched LH's fares, which are generally on the more expensive side for for YVR to Europe direct. I do hope I'm wrong though and that there is some price competition between the two.

I suspect that the LH/AC joint venture ensures that the both of them will do quite well. I wouldn't wait for any big price drops..

Anyone know how LH got dibs to YVR-FRA? I always wondered why there wasn't a complementary AC flight like at YYZ or YUL.

YVR certainly has seen a lot of AC love. I'm not sure if the frequency bump of YVR-DUB was mentioned in the thread as well. And what's with LGW? was WS going to resume LGW service in 2017? I totally didn't see AC/rouge going for Gatwick.

SFUVancouver
Nov 10, 2016, 2:13 AM
Interesting that Condor (Germany's AirTransat, essentially) is going daily this coming summer. I think that I mentioned a while back that my girlfriend and I flew to Frankfurt on the August long weekend with a week's lead time on our flight booking and managed to find $200 one way fares, taxes and fees included. I fully expect that was an extraordinarily lucky find, but I'm happy to see an international carrier at YVR steeply discount a flights during peak periods. Google Flights was how we found the flight.

Johnny Aussie
Nov 10, 2016, 5:30 AM
YVR still leading the big 4 in growth even though in Sept YYZ had just insane growth of 12.4%... Just edging YVR's 12.2% growth.

For YTD ending 30 Sept 2016:

YYZ up 7.7% to 33.9M
YVR up 9.2% to 17.0M
YUL up 6.8% to 12.8M
YYC up 1.4% to 11.9M

Klazu
Nov 10, 2016, 5:38 AM
YVR - Europe still highly seasonal. That's the reality folks.

I know, but it would be nice if YVR would see a bump especially around Christmas when demand is high for few weeks. It would also be nice to have Icelandicair year-round, like they do to Seattle and Edmonton (of all places).

I have never considered that now also DUB is an option for flying to Finland, but I am not sure if that connects so well. I recall the airport not being the greatest when I was there back in 2008.

I think that I mentioned a while back that my girlfriend and I flew to Frankfurt on the August long weekend with a week's lead time on our flight booking and managed to find $200 one way fares, taxes and fees included.

There were some ridiculously cheap flights to Europe this summer. I recal seeing prices even less than that on YVRdeals.com. Not sure why that was the case for few months.

teriyaki
Nov 10, 2016, 6:38 AM
I know, but it would be nice if YVR would see a bump especially around Christmas when demand is high for few weeks. It would also be nice to have Icelandicair year-round, like they do to Seattle and Edmonton (of all places).

I have never considered that now also DUB is an option for flying to Finland, but I am not sure if that connects so well. I recall the airport not being the greatest when I was there back in 2008.



There were some ridiculously cheap flights to Europe this summer. I recal seeing prices even less than that on YVRdeals.com. Not sure why that was the case for few months.

If you're flexible with time, deals to Europe come up quite frequently in the summer and end of summer. Condor and Air transat are the ones to watch as they try to fill their planes up as it gets closer to the date.

The new entry by Air France certainly pushed some competition into the arena and we saw lots of deals to Paris this last year on multiple carriers as they all tried to fight for a piece of the pie.

Same with flights to Asia now actually. If your dates are not during super high season like holidays. It is very easy to find a good deal, ones that would've been called "insane deals" just a few years back are becoming the norm. Yes, you might have to transit in PVG or PEK for some odd long hours. I'll happily do it to save a few hundred dollars.

casper
Nov 10, 2016, 6:56 AM
Right now all gate would have at least 2 or maybe even 3 flights within the time frame as each flight stay at gate for less than 2 hours. I don't think Call to Gate system would save much time over that with the extra cost of going to/from the remote stand....

Unlike the one CTG airport in Canada (that will remain nameless), YVR has an assortment of high end shops with quite a diverse selection as well as fish tanks and pools to amuse passengers. That slows them down and provides something to do other that congregate around the gate.

Johnny Aussie
Nov 10, 2016, 7:43 AM
Unlike the one CTG airport in Canada (that will remain nameless), YVR has an assortment of high end shops with quite a diverse selection as well as fish tanks and pools to amuse passengers. That slows them down and provides something to do other that congregate around the gate.

Perhaps that's why YVR keeps winning awards from numerous organisations! :)

At the end of the day, call-to-gate or not, YVR is attracting most, if not all, new international routes in Western Canada and it doesn't seem to be slowing down... still more to come!!

One thing is for sure though.... The terminal expansion announcement can't come soon enough!!!

zahav
Nov 10, 2016, 8:47 AM
I posted this in the YYC forum, since they haven't really seen anything for expansion from Westjet or Air Canada and they are discussing possible future routes. Last paragraph I did a comparison on AC's routes and equipment. YVR by next summer will have 36 international+transborder non-stop destinations on AC family, 24 of which will be operated on widebodies. YYC will have 14, and only 4 routes operating widebodies. YYC also doesn't have any other Star Alliance flights inernationally, whereas YVR has Tokyo Haneda (ANA), Bejing (CA), Taipei (BR), Auckland (AZ), Frankfurt (LH), and Munich (LH). Quite a big difference in service between the two, and these numbers don't even reflect frequency differences.

The thing with Westjet now is that they consider Toronto as important (and arguably more so) than Calgary. And for those east cost cities (and so many other secondary US cities, as well as Caribbean etc.) it makes way more financial sense for them to funnel people through Pearson. They are exploiting that hub now more than ever. Calgary still doesn't have a super large O&D with those cities, and Vancouver and Edmonton are the only cities that might make sense to funnel through YYC (other prairie cities make more sense to funnel into Toronto since they are going in that direction to the east coast anyways). But even with YVR and YEG potential to connect in YYC, they still make more sense to channel everything through Toronto. I hope Westjet gives more love to us in Western Canada, but for certain expansion markets, it all seems to be focused on Toronto.

As for Air Canada, they long ignored western canada too but seem to finally be starting to build up their YVR presence at least. Who knows if they will start announcing new YYC routes (i know, this has been discussed ad nausem on these threads...). But there is hope, YVR was not getting much new from them until last couple years either. Now, all changed. Just today they announced daily 787 service to Frankfurt (on top of Lufthansa's daily 747), and 3x weekly Rouge to Gatwick (the 3 flights are pulled from Toronto, who are going from daily down to 4 weekly, so one plane will do YVR 3x and YYZ 4x).

At this point YYC seems more like a large focus city for AC, rather than a hub. Just for a numbers comparison for international service (incl. transborder). From YVR, AC offers service to 36 destinations, 26 of which are operated by widebody heavy aircraft. That's almost 3/4 of flights operated by large capacity planes. From YYC, they offer service to 14 destinations, only 4 of which are widebody heavy aircraft. Those 4 widebodies are 787-9 (x2), 787-8 (x1), and 763 (x1). YVR has tons of 773HD and more frequencies on those 36 routes as well.

mezzanine
Nov 10, 2016, 8:49 AM
I refer back often to the AC Investor Day 2018 network opportunities map.

MEL, AKL, SIN, BKK, CTS, FRA, CDG are the remaining unserved YVR destinations from that map. All are plausible in my opinion.

Some more likely than others of course but not completely ridiculous.

YVR-DEL and YVR-DUB were both missing from that map so it doesn't tell the whole story.

now LGW was also not on the investors day list.

Good times for YVR wrt AC. It would be very interesting to see where AC will assign the last of its new dreamliners, as with where the final rouge planes will operate. And consolidation - what routes will have staying power? (i'm thinking of DEL and a possible year-round FRA) what rouge routes can be upgraded? (mainline/year-round KIX)


As for Air Canada, they long ignored western canada too but seem to finally be starting to build up their YVR presence at least. Who knows if they will start announcing new YYC routes (i know, this has been discussed ad nausem on these threads...). But there is hope, YVR was not getting much new from them until last couple years either. Now, all changed. Just today they announced daily 787 service to Frankfurt (on top of Lufthansa's daily 747), and 3x weekly Rouge to Gatwick (the 3 flights are pulled from Toronto, who are going from daily down to 4 weekly, so one plane will do YVR 3x and YYZ 4x).

I suspect that YYC is in a catch-22. YYC is the primary hub for WS and already directs a lot of feed to it. AC would have build a lot of connecting traffic and go toe-to-toe with WS to get connecting pax for any new YYC intercontinental flights, which would be very costly. YYC would be more dependent on WS to build new international routes.

thenoflyzone
Nov 10, 2016, 4:41 PM
I know this is going to sound like I'm whining (and I think it's because we've been pretty spoiled in the good news department lately!), but I'm a little disappointed we aren't getting new destinations, these routes are already served by multiple carriers. Still great news and awesome that Air Canada has that confidence in YVR and is deploying capacity on new routes, but I wish those planes could be used on routes to new cities. You know, make our destinations-served list even better :p

AC clearly has a strategy and they are following it to a T.

YUL-CMN
YUL-ALG
YUL-NCE
YUL-LYS
YUL-VCE
YUL-BCN
YUL-ATH
YYZ-ATH
YYZ-BCN
YYZ-VCE
YYZ-PRG
YYZ-BUD
YYZ-LGW
YYZ-MAN
YYZ-DUB
..
YVR-LGW

All these routes had a competing carrier operating it and weren't new destinations for the respective Canadian airports at time of launch.

CareerShow
Nov 10, 2016, 8:16 PM
It may be time for a new upgraded chart!

nname
Nov 10, 2016, 10:15 PM
From Transport Canada, both Beijing Capital (https://www.otc-cta.gc.ca/eng/ruling/343-a-2016) and Interjet (https://www.otc-cta.gc.ca/eng/ruling/342-a-2016) received license to operate scheduled service to/from Canada.

Hmm... wonder what's would be the first route for Interjet :rolleyes:

Johnny Aussie
Nov 10, 2016, 10:23 PM
From Transport Canada, both Beijing Capital (https://www.otc-cta.gc.ca/eng/ruling/343-a-2016) and Interjet (https://www.otc-cta.gc.ca/eng/ruling/342-a-2016) received license to operate scheduled service to/from Canada.

Hmm... wonder what's would be the first route for Interjet :rolleyes:

Damn! Beat me to it.

I bet Interjet announces both MEX-YYZ and MEX-YVR at the same time effective early 2017.

thenoflyzone
Nov 10, 2016, 10:52 PM
From Transport Canada, both Beijing Capital (https://www.otc-cta.gc.ca/eng/ruling/343-a-2016) and Interjet (https://www.otc-cta.gc.ca/eng/ruling/342-a-2016) received license to operate scheduled service to/from Canada.

Hmm... wonder what's would be the first route for Interjet :rolleyes:

Any source on these? Can't seem to find any.

Damn! Beat me to it.

I bet Interjet announces both MEX-YYZ and MEX-YVR at the same time effective early 2017.

Too bad Interjet's SSJ's dont have the legs for MEX-Canada. Would be nice to see them up here.

trofirhen
Nov 10, 2016, 10:53 PM
Damn! Beat me to it.

I bet Interjet announces both MEX-YYZ and MEX-YVR at the same time effective early 2017.
I wonder when/if Volaris will announce GDL and MTY? That'd be great to have expanded Mexican coverage, and not just to resort cities.

Johnny Aussie
Nov 11, 2016, 12:11 AM
Any source on these? Can't seem to find any.

If you click on "Beijing Capital" and "Interjet" it will take you to the source.

nname
Nov 11, 2016, 3:11 AM
According to Airliners.net, Vietnam Airlines had applied for service to LAX, SFO, SEA, DFW, and IAD - either direct or via TPE, KIX, or NGO - and seek beyond right to YVR, YYZ, and YUL.

Hmm... SGN-LAX-YVR or SGN-SFO-YVR coming? (I can't see any other combination works for YVR)

thenoflyzone
Nov 11, 2016, 3:27 AM
If you click on "Beijing Capital" and "Interjet" it will take you to the source.

How the hell did i miss that :facepalm:

Thanks...

thenoflyzone
Nov 11, 2016, 2:30 PM
According to Airliners.net, Vietnam Airlines had applied for service to LAX, SFO, SEA, DFW, and IAD - either direct or via TPE, KIX, or NGO - and seek beyond right to YVR, YYZ, and YUL.

Hmm... SGN-LAX-YVR or SGN-SFO-YVR coming? (I can't see any other combination works for YVR)

YYZ and YUL have a larger Vietnamese community than YVR.

Ontario has 100,000 Vietnamese Canadians (71,000 in Toronto)
Quebec has 42,000
BC has 35,000
Alberta 32,000

Methinks if Vietnam Airlines would serve Canada, it would be YYZ first. YVR and YUL have a slimer chance of getting any service. The only thing that plays in YVR's favor is the shorter distance from Vietnam.

Gordon
Nov 11, 2016, 6:38 PM
It looks like YVR is expanding the man Asian departure block, because the Beijing Capital flight leaves @ 4:30PM

teriyaki
Nov 11, 2016, 8:07 PM
It looks like YVR is expanding the man Asian departure block, because the Beijing Capital flight leaves @ 4:30PM

Wished it was a red-eye flight instead. I'm a really strong advocate of these as its perfect for connections into rest of Asia on the outbound. Leaves YVR at midnight, and arrives in Asia in the morning, allowing for a smattering of connecting flights regardless of airline and airport you fly into. MU/CX/BR/CI have got this one figured out ;)

zahav
Nov 11, 2016, 11:45 PM
Desperate times call for desperate measures LOL...

Emirates since Late-October 2016 has expanded travel options for Vancouver market, as it partners with Quick Shuttle for bus service on Seattle – Vancouver sector. 2 of 4 daily’s Quick Shuttle service now carries EK flight numbers since 24OCT16. This is the airline’s first bus transfer service in North America, as similar arrangement already exists for Bahrain – Dammam, Dhaka – Chittagong, Dhaka – Sylhet, Osaka Kansai – Nagoya, as well as within Dubai.

EK7033 SEA0930 – 1405YVR BUS D (Quick Shuttle N1)
EK7035 SEA1600 – 2100YVR BUS D (Quick Shuttle N3)

EK7034 YVR0845 – 1400SEA BUS D (Quick Shuttle S2)
EK7036 YVR1615 – 2130SEA BUS D (Quick Shuttle S4)

In Vancouver, EK7033/7035 arrives at Vancouver Waterfront Station, EK7034/7036 departs from various hotels in downtown Vancouver.

Other air travel option for Vancouver includes Emirates’ codeshare partnership with Alaska Airlines on Seattle – Vancouver sector, WestJet on Los Angeles – Vancouver and Toronto – Vancouver as well as summer seasonal London Gatwick – Vancouver.

http://www.routesonline.com/news/38/airlineroute/269814/emirates-adds-seattle-vancouver-bus-connection-in-4q16/

trofirhen
Nov 11, 2016, 11:58 PM
Desperate times call for desperate measures LOL...

Emirates since Late-October 2016 has expanded travel options for Vancouver market, as it partners with Quick Shuttle for bus service on Seattle – Vancouver sector. 2 of 4 daily’s Quick Shuttle service now carries EK flight numbers since 24OCT16. This is the airline’s first bus transfer service in North America, as similar arrangement already exists for Bahrain – Dammam, Dhaka – Chittagong, Dhaka – Sylhet, Osaka Kansai – Nagoya, as well as within Dubai.

EK7033 SEA0930 – 1405YVR BUS D (Quick Shuttle N1)
EK7035 SEA1600 – 2100YVR BUS D (Quick Shuttle N3)

EK7034 YVR0845 – 1400SEA BUS D (Quick Shuttle S2)
EK7036 YVR1615 – 2130SEA BUS D (Quick Shuttle S4)

In Vancouver, EK7033/7035 arrives at Vancouver Waterfront Station, EK7034/7036 departs from various hotels in downtown Vancouver.

Other air travel option for Vancouver includes Emirates’ codeshare partnership with Alaska Airlines on Seattle – Vancouver sector, WestJet on Los Angeles – Vancouver and Toronto – Vancouver as well as summer seasonal London Gatwick – Vancouver.

http://www.routesonline.com/news/38/airlineroute/269814/emirates-adds-seattle-vancouver-bus-connection-in-4q16/
:tup::tup: I love it! This will get the Ministry of Transport doing some thinking.

casper
Nov 12, 2016, 9:47 AM
:tup::tup: I love it! This will get the Ministry of Transport doing some thinking.

I don't think it is going to be noticed. They already code-share on Horizon flights, this is just a code share on a bus service. I don't even think it is a dedicated bus to the airline. They are just adding their code onto an existing bus service.

trofirhen
Nov 12, 2016, 12:47 PM
I don't think it is going to be noticed. They already code-share on Horizon flights, this is just a code share on a bus service. I don't even think it is a dedicated bus to the airline. They are just adding their code onto an existing bus service.
:( Darn!! I thought they might consider the need for another YVR connection to IST, DOH, or such. Wishful thinking on my part!

Johnny Aussie
Nov 12, 2016, 9:25 PM
I was pretty darn excited about that new Emirates bus service too... barely slept a wink last night!

YYZ and YUL have a larger Vietnamese community than YVR.

The only thing that plays in YVR's favor is the shorter distance from Vietnam.

But YVR is also the main Asian hub for Western Canada, so the YVR catchment figures that VN would be looking at would also include AB, SK, MB which would make YVR a more attractive destination for VN. With respect to YUL, there isn't a significant Vietnamese population to the East of Montreal. This of course is not taking into account other markets (ie USA) that YVR and YUL may be logical transfer points, I am only looking at Canada for this example. Plus SGN is actually a pretty good point for transfer to most other SE Asian countries. So for YVR it's not just the shorter distance.

It looks like YVR is expanding the man Asian departure block, because the Beijing Capital flight leaves @ 4:30PM

Possibly to do with the slot availability issue... perhaps there just aren't any more available since AC seems to be snapping them up!

****

With respect to AC's latest additions (TPE, NGO, FRA, LGW... etc) I think the most interesting one is actually LGW.

YVR-London as I mentioned in the latest UK stats just skyrocketed last summer... almost hit 100,000 in July but smashed through that benchmark in August. Looking at other North American-London market figures it blows me away just how large YVR-London has become.

This means next summer YVR-London will have 5 carriers in this market. AC, AC rouge, BA, TS and WS. That's 37 flights per week (as of now anyway))!! Going to be a bloodbath. Clearly, Air Canada and rouge is not shying away from this. A bold move but obviously they have numbers to support this move.

Now we just await the next announcements.... stay tuned....

jmt18325
Nov 13, 2016, 7:01 AM
There are more announcements coming?

Could we have like, just one of these flights?

lol

Johnny Aussie
Nov 13, 2016, 7:58 AM
There are more announcements coming?

Could we have like, just one of these flights?

lol

The easiest one is CZ CAN-YVR-MEX.... I think 4O YVR-MEX is also inevitable...

Still many unaccounted for rouge frequencies....

And then there is......

trofirhen
Nov 13, 2016, 4:49 PM
The easiest one is CZ CAN-YVR-MEX.... I think 4O YVR-MEX is also inevitable...

Still many unaccounted for rouge frequencies....

And then there is......
Please quit doing that !! aargh!! :irked: :uhh:

Gordon
Nov 13, 2016, 6:03 PM
Back in mid oct there was some discussion of the federal government selling airports to raise Infrastructure money, has anything esle been said about it?
This would be a horrible move for the Trudeau goverment to akd.

rxp
Nov 13, 2016, 6:28 PM
And then there is......

Is it that big? are we talking huge/game changer? like YVR to Delhi or BAa380 huge?

trofirhen
Nov 13, 2016, 7:30 PM
Is it that big? are we talking huge/game changer? like YVR to Delhi or BAa380 huge?
... pardon my weighing in here, but I think it's just Johnny playing head games with us!!;) Like, teasing, leading us on ....

jmt18325
Nov 13, 2016, 7:37 PM
I think the Air Canada map may be a good clue - which I can't find right now.

There's also the colourful tail....

Johnny Aussie
Nov 13, 2016, 8:25 PM
I think the Air Canada map may be a good clue - which I can't find right now.

There's also the colourful tail....

You want page 37 ---> https://www.aircanada.com/en/about/media/presentations/documents/investor_day_2015.pdf

However! This one dated August 2015 has an updated 2018 Network Opportunities map showing YVR connected to BKK instead of YYZ.

See page 8 --->http://www.aircanada.com/en/about/media/presentations/documents/ben_smith_las_vegas_aug312015.pdf

As for how big is it? OK it's not game changing a la BA A380 or AC to DEL.

trofirhen
Nov 13, 2016, 9:02 PM
You want page 37 ---> https://www.aircanada.com/en/about/media/presentations/documents/investor_day_2015.pdf

However! This one dated August 2015 has an updated 2018 Network Opportunities map showing YVR connected to BKK instead of YYZ.

See page 8 --->http://www.aircanada.com/en/about/media/presentations/documents/ben_smith_las_vegas_aug312015.pdf

As for how big is it? OK it's not game changing a la BA A380 or AC to DEL.
OK .... YVR - BKK? / YVR - SIN? If not, then what? Tell us, tell us! Pleeeeease!

Johnny Aussie
Nov 13, 2016, 9:31 PM
Calm down mate.

The AC maps, as we know, are an indication of some of the routes AC is exploring. Some have already started, some may not. Also keep in mind some new routes have started or been announced that are not on this map (DEL, DUB, LGW). The key word is "opportunities." Other airlines will be looking at other opportunities and perhaps some of those overlap with AC's opportunities.

Let's say for the sake of argument there won't be any new airline and/or route announcements coming. Just look at everything YVR has mustered up in just the last 12 months. It's actually at the point of mind boggling now to have so many new flights and routes opening in such a short period. Of course there will be a select few who will whinge and whine about not being enough or going to the wrong places.... a smallish market like YVR still has limitations as to just how big it can get. Back to the key word of "opportunities" yes there are still plenty of realistic opportunities... but the key word now is "realistic."

In any event... I won't say anything else about this.

excel
Nov 13, 2016, 10:43 PM
Let's say for the sake of argument there won't be any new airline and/or route announcements coming.

i'm officially confused

Johnny Aussie
Nov 13, 2016, 11:12 PM
i'm officially confused

OK. I'm saying there WILL be more announcements...

What I was saying above is WHAT IF there weren't any more announcements to come in the near future... Would that be such a horrible thing?

Smile people the future is rosy despite those focussed on the negative.

excel
Nov 14, 2016, 1:26 AM
Ah I see. Thanks for the clarification.

CareerShow
Nov 14, 2016, 1:41 AM
Anyone think Air Canada would be better off mainlining Phoenix and Palm Springs and increasing the frequency from 3 and 2 weekly respectively? I just think with these frequencies its hard to attract customers from Westjet who runs daily to Phoenix and 2 daily to palm springs.

trofirhen
Nov 14, 2016, 1:56 AM
Anyone think Air Canada would be better off mainlining Phoenix and Palm Springs and increasing the frequency from 3 and 2 weekly respectively? I just think with these frequencies its hard to attract customers from Westjet who runs daily to Phoenix and 2 daily to palm springs.
Westjet seems to be doing well with Phoenix and Palm Springs, unless I'm wrong. Is there any reason you'd like AC to grab a slice of the action?

casper
Nov 14, 2016, 2:03 AM
Westjet seems to be doing well with Phoenix and Palm Springs, unless I'm wrong. Is there any reason you'd like AC to grab a slice of the action?

If AC timed the flight correctly they could use it to provide connecting traffic onto the daytime bank of flights going to Asia.

CareerShow
Nov 14, 2016, 5:43 AM
Westjet seems to be doing well with Phoenix and Palm Springs, unless I'm wrong. Is there any reason you'd like AC to grab a slice of the action?

Im always a fan of increased competition and I also am curious on the performance of the route for AC. 2 weekly flights to PSP would not be demonstrate an attempt to gain frequent travellers as flight days are too in frequent. I speculate the move was aircraft dependent as Rouge no longer has a a319 base at YVR, so the 763 are a bit large to be flying into PSP daily or whatever, which is why im curious if this becomes mainline in the near future with a daily C-series or something.

Gordon
Nov 14, 2016, 3:29 PM
I thought aC was expanding it's PS service t0 6 weekly flights this year.

zahav
Nov 14, 2016, 7:59 PM
Does anyone know if China Eastern is planning to keep the Nanjing'Kunming non-stops after March 26th? It's currently only showing to this date, and then back to PVG only. The press release didn't specify and end date, just a start date. I hope these stick around!

China Eastern on Tuesday (08NOV16) adjusted planned operation for 1-stop Kunming – Vancouver operation. From 20DEC16, the Skyteam member will operate Kunming – Nanjing – Vancouver, instead of via Shanghai. Operational will continue to see 3 weekly flights by A330-200, with following modified schedule.

MU215 KMG0930 – 1230NKG1400 – 0830YVR 332 247
MU216 YVR1030 – 1500+1NKG1700+1 – 2000+1KMG 332 247

As a result of this service changes, the airline’s Shanghai Pu Dong – Vancouver service will be reduced from 14 to 11 weekly from 20DEC16.

nname
Nov 14, 2016, 8:15 PM
Chinese airlines usually update changes very late, and most are still adjusting winter schedule instead of the summer ones. Sichuan just recently reduce SHE-YVR down to 1x weekly after March 26, despite launching the CGO route more than a month ago. They are just not too worried about bumping passengers around very close to departure date...

Johnny Aussie
Nov 14, 2016, 8:27 PM
Chinese airlines usually update changes very late, and most are still adjusting winter schedule instead of the summer ones. Sichuan just recently reduce SHE-YVR down to 1x weekly after March 26, despite launching the CGO route more than a month ago. They are just not too worried about bumping passengers around very close to departure date...

CGO was just launched on Friday actually....

http://www.yvr.ca/en/media/news-releases/yvr-welcomes-the-first-flight-to-north-america-from-zhengzhou

nname
Nov 14, 2016, 8:27 PM
CGO was just launched on Friday actually....

http://www.yvr.ca/en/media/news-releases/yvr-welcomes-the-first-flight-to-north-america-from-zhengzhou

Sorry I meant "announcing" the CGO route and the reduction of SHE.

Gordon
Nov 14, 2016, 10:05 PM
I can't find any info on Acs yvr psp service on its website what dates does the flight operate & what type of plane are they using. theyt could use an
a 321

CareerShow
Nov 15, 2016, 1:04 AM
I can't find any info on Acs yvr psp service on its website what dates does the flight operate & what type of plane are they using. theyt could use an
a 321

Day 3 and 7 on a Rouge 767, last year was 6 weekly on a Rouge a319, and the year before that was a 3 weekly Rouge a319.

Gordon
Nov 15, 2016, 1:12 AM
That seems to be alot of plane for the route

West Jet fluctuates between daily & 3 times daily between now & mid Feb.

source yvr.ca\flight schedules.

West Jet should use a 767 on it's YVR HNL route.

Johnny Aussie
Nov 15, 2016, 3:22 AM
AC increases PHX to 4 weekly and PSP to 3 weekly in February.

PHX ops days 1,2,4,6 and PSP 3,5,7.

CareerShow
Nov 15, 2016, 5:38 AM
AC increases PHX to 4 weekly and PSP to 3 weekly in February.

PHX ops days 1,2,4,6 and PSP 3,5,7.

Why wouldn't AC rotate a smaller aircraft say a319 Rouge through PSP and PHX with Toronto and increase frequency. I wouldn't be surprised to see these two routes mainlined in the next few years. 763 Rouge are probably better served flying elsewhere.

Johnny Aussie
Nov 15, 2016, 5:54 AM
Why wouldn't AC rotate a smaller aircraft say a319 Rouge through PSP and PHX with Toronto and increase frequency. I wouldn't be surprised to see these two routes mainlined in the next few years. 763 Rouge are probably better served flying elsewhere.

There are three rouge 763s based in YVR during the winter:

1) rotates daily through LAS and HNL/KOA
2) rotates daily through PHX/PSP and OGG
3) rotates daily (6 weekly) to Mexico (CUN PVR SJD or ZIH)

They need to send the 763s somewhere during the day after they arrive from Hawaii so I suppose PHX and PSP were the most likely candidates based on timing and pax volume.

The only rouge 319 YVR sees in the winter is the second daily LAS.

CareerShow
Nov 15, 2016, 8:14 AM
There are three rouge 763s based in YVR during the winter:

1) rotates daily through LAS and HNL/KOA
2) rotates daily through PHX/PSP and OGG
3) rotates daily (6 weekly) to Mexico (CUN PVR SJD or ZIH)

They need to send the 763s somewhere during the day after they arrive from Hawaii so I suppose PHX and PSP were the most likely candidates based on timing and pax volume.

The only rouge 319 YVR sees in the winter is the second daily LAS.

That explains the rotation but I would still like to see both routes with a higher frequency on a smaller aircraft. More frequency with smaller aircrafts is typically more desirable in my opinion.

Johnny Aussie
Nov 15, 2016, 10:25 AM
That explains the rotation but I would still like to see both routes with a higher frequency on a smaller aircraft. More frequency with smaller aircrafts is typically more desirable in my opinion.

I think the issue is they can't rotate too many aircraft to cover western routes. Airlines open and close bases all the time. When more a/c are transferred to rouge, including 321s, perhaps they may base a couple in YVR. For now it's all 763s.

Gordon
Nov 15, 2016, 3:10 PM
Rouge has at least 1 A321 based @ yvr i saw it a coup;e of weeks ago.

Cage
Nov 15, 2016, 6:38 PM
Rouge has at least 1 A321 based @ yvr i saw it a coup;e of weeks ago.

The aircraft and crew is based in YYZ for the A321 you saw in YVR. From a workforce scheduling perspective. AC routinely gets into a bind where there are more planes or crews in one bucket and a shortage in another bucket. The solution is to tail swap where possible to resolve the operational issues. A321 get swapped for 763s at both mainline and rouge. At rouge the 321 can also get swapped for 319.

Gordon
Nov 15, 2016, 6:40 PM
I think that 321 was headed for vegas

Cage
Nov 15, 2016, 6:47 PM
(1) Why wouldn't AC rotate a smaller aircraft say a319 Rouge through PSP and PHX with Toronto and increase frequency.

(2) I wouldn't be surprised to see these two routes mainlined in the next few years. 763 Rouge are probably better served flying elsewhere.

(1) AC has tried routing rouge 319s on the YYZ-SAN-YVR run before, the departure and arrival times inorder to make the schedule route are not optimal and barely commercially viable on the YVR end. Additionally the crew pairings out of YYZ are brutal or completely inefficient (coin toss as to which of the two options is least favourable).

(2) to get maximum flying time with maximum schedule efficiency its best to schedule your widebody aircraft on split between longhaul and shorthaul and then back to longhaul. The alternative is to schedule two longhaul segments with a 5-6 hour dwell time in the middle.

Longhaul to longhaul with little turnaround time is what got WS into trouble with their 763 operation. Where other airlines differ is that they schedule enough downtime to maintain schedule cohesion.

It is for this reason that you will continue to see Rouge 763 doing longhaul international paired with short haul Western North America flying.

rxp
Nov 15, 2016, 6:48 PM
OK. I'm saying there WILL be more announcements...

What I was saying above is WHAT IF there weren't any more announcements to come in the near future... Would that be such a horrible thing?

Smile people the future is rosy despite those focussed on the negative.

how big is it then? give us a comparison...

Johnny Aussie
Nov 16, 2016, 8:37 AM
Just saw on airlineroute.net tweet that YVR-DUB is reverting back to 3 weekly only.

This now puts YVR-NGO and YVR-DUB on a combined daily footing.
YVR-DUB will op 135 and YVR-NGO will op 2467.

Based on my calcs there is still one unallcoated 763 next summer.. will it get based in YYZ, YUL or YVR?

stiffdeadman
Nov 17, 2016, 6:32 AM
i see today eurowings is going to start summer seasonal service from cologne to seattle 3 times a week. wonder if vancouver is on their radar?

teriyaki
Nov 17, 2016, 7:23 AM
i see today eurowings is going to start summer seasonal service from cologne to seattle 3 times a week. wonder if vancouver is on their radar?

Considering LH already flies to YVR from 2 cities with AC also joining in the action, don't think they'll in too much of a hurry to jeopardize their golden goose.

YVR Bruce
Nov 17, 2016, 8:08 PM
I see an inbound from Everett at 07:00 tomorrow.
Is that how deliveries of new 789s show up?

excel
Nov 17, 2016, 8:11 PM
Yes that is Paine Field. Home to the Boeing Everett Factory. The largest building in the world :)

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b1/Boeing_Everett_Plant.jpg/800px-Boeing_Everett_Plant.jpg
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/73/Aerial_Boeing_Everett_Factory_October_2011.jpg/1024px-Aerial_Boeing_Everett_Factory_October_2011.jpg
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/fa/Jetstar%27s_first_787_on_the_production_line_%289132370198%29.jpg/1024px-Jetstar%27s_first_787_on_the_production_line_%289132370198%29.jpg
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_Everett_Factory

Klazu
Nov 18, 2016, 1:16 AM
Yes that is Paine Field. Home to the Boeing Everett Factory. The largest building in the world :)

It's largest by volume and one of the biggest by floor space. We did the Boeing factory tour two years ago and I would highly recommend it. Staying in a hotel next to the factory was also really nice as there are brand new planes taking off the whole evening. Feeling the rumble of spanking-new 747-8 taking off is amazing. :)

http://vuosiamaailmalla.fi/blog/wp-content/uploads/2014/boeingin_tehdas2.jpg

http://vuosiamaailmalla.fi/blog/wp-content/uploads/2014/boeingin_tehdas1.jpg

There are also some really exotic tails to spot on the airfield.

http://vuosiamaailmalla.fi/blog/wp-content/uploads/2014/uusia_dreamlinereita3.jpg

http://vuosiamaailmalla.fi/blog/wp-content/uploads/2014/uusia_dreamlinereita2.jpg

http://vuosiamaailmalla.fi/blog/wp-content/uploads/2014/uusia_dreamlinereita1.jpg

They assemble all Boeing's wide-body aircrafts in Everett: 747, 767, 777 and 787. All 737's are assembled in Renton, south of Seattle.

http://vuosiamaailmalla.fi/blog/wp-content/uploads/2014/boeingin_tehdas3.jpg

I have some more photos in here (http://vuosiamaailmalla.fi/blog/?p=6895), but unfortunately photography inside the factory is forbidden.

Here's also a nice video of Boeing's centennial celebrations few weeks ago with some cool 3D projections. :)

MpAc5KhXM_w

Alpine
Nov 19, 2016, 2:36 AM
I just found out that AC56/57 (YYZ-DXB) has been upgauged from a 789 to a 77W through the end of February 2017.

With this increase in capacity, I'm really cheesed that AC and the Trudeau government are not willing to re-negotiate bilaterals with the UAE or Turkey and that Vancouver still doesn't have a direct flight to a Gulf destination or Istanbul, which is a few hours' flight time to most of the world's population. This is even considering:


The return of nonstop YVR-DEL
The state fuel subsidies that the ME3 get
The lack of O/D (or even business travel) traffic between Vancouver and the UAE--in aviation terms, Vancouver is the northern hemisphere's New Zealand; far away from everywhere else. At least SEA-DXB is justified because the flights ship cargo parts for a Boeing fleet based at Dubai International Airport.
How the ME3 massacred QF's longhaul market share
The political unrest in Turkey making a YVR-IST flight more of a can of worms
The AC/AS codeshare for YVR-SEA-DXB routings


Moreover, why isn't connecting traffic considered in bilateral negotiations? A bit of protectionism isn't bad sometimes but this reminds me of the previous Conservative government keeping Verizon out of the country way back when. I think there is protectionism going on not only in favour of AC, but of its *A partners, since YVR is an *A hub, and (I don't have hard numbers for this but this is just my hunch) MENASA is a popular onward destination for LH493 and CA992 pax. A thrice weekly 789 or 343 to DXB (or DOH or even AUH) isn't going to trigger the bottom dropping out of the market.

In fact, if AC72/73 becomes a permanent route (and not just a seasonal one), it will actually soak up a lot of YVR-MENASA demand (even from CZ/LH/KL/CX or newcomers like AF) and the more recent additions like AF) since most on hypothetical YVR-Gulf/Turkey flights would be heading to the subcontinent. TK is a *A partner and has a local partner in Air Canada. A 3-4x weekly 333 to IST and one 3x weekly route to a Gulf destination (either DXB, AUH or DOH) on a 789 (EY/QR) or a 343 (QR) would be a reasonable complement to a year-round YVR-DEL, to cover other destinations in MENASA and Sub-Saharan Africa like BOM, CAI, ADD, BAH, JNB, TLV, BEY, CPT, LOS, CMN, etc. An EK 77W would be dicey, they're really high-density.

Alas, I've heard that the ME3 want multiple A380s to YVR a day, or nothing, if they're even going to bring up the idea of bilaterals. I don't know if it's true, but I wouldn't doubt it.

I would like to know where I can find hard numbers (if they're available) on what the most popular MENASA onward destinations are on direct longhaul flights leaving YVR. It would be very interesting to see. If they're locked away behind academic journal paywalls, that's okay because I have access to university library databases.